Axe-Fx Question...Please answer even if only to save my sanity!

[ripley156]

Ok...

I am losing it, lol...Someone PLEASE help and tell me I am not nuts.

I have an Axe-Fx Ultra that I have had about a month. Everything I read says that the presets are not the greatest and you have to dial-in sounds to match your gear, tastes, etc. I understand that completely and can see it is true by how good (and bad) some sound vs. the others. My set-up (to show what I am using as a signal chain): I currently have the Axe-Fx running thrugh M-Audio 8X monitors (about a year old and cost $400-$450-ish, which I include only that to show they are not the best or the worst). I have a Fender HBS-1 Strat and a Tyler SE. I am running power amp sims on, cabs on, input lefts, output stereo, global EQ flat, input @ 2:00-pmish)

As an example, everyone says how great the Carol Ann and Orange Models are, I want to hear how great it is too!...I keep hearing "Start simple, make an amp and cab block and tweak it"..When I take a blank lay-out and make a amp block and a cab block to demo it, it sounds like complete ass out-of-the-gate. I mean, this is using all the settings it defaults to (I think straight-up noon on most parameters in the amp block)...I know there is tweaking involved, but from what I am hearing, it is no where near what I hear guys posting saying it was run straight into their soundcard, lol!

I guess what I am saying is I hear some amazing sounds...Examples are Scott's JCM tone (I don't have the redwirez, so I just chose a default Marshall cab), Moshwitz's Uber tone, the Orange clip that was posted in Gasp's thread was AMAZING...I want my Ultra to make those sounds too...It has to be something I am doing wrong (or not yet doing) I am really at the point where I wonder if my Axe is broken (I am sure it isn't but why can't I make this work!?!)...It sounds about 50% of what I expected, and I am not a tone-snob at all...It has to be something I am doing badly.

I know a lot of tone is in the fingers, but seriously, this is just not the case... The disconnect between what I hear posted and what downloads into my Ultra and comes-out when I play is just WAYYY too big to be a "me"-thing! I have tried to download patches from the exchange and the Fractal Forum that multiple guys rant and rave about..When I download these same tones from the same links, they sound just rotten (A recent example is the Sweet Child O' Mine" patch that was on the Fractal Forum that everyone was just loving...I downloaded it and it sounded more like Neil Young than Slash. It was just awful through my set-up and NOTHING like what I heard posted)

Someone PLEASE tell me I am not crazy. Please tell me I just need to keep tweaking it and it will eventually sound like what you are all raving about!
I would kill to hear an Axe in real life that sounds like what I hear posted...If anyone is ANYWHERE near Wisconsin, I am taking a road trip if you will have me to see your rig and have your straighten-out mine, lol...

Dan

[Eric Thomas]

Do you have the ability to post a clip? That way, someone else could record a direct recording with a similar guitar and the same preset for a comparison.

[jayjerry]

This is probably a long shot but when I first got my AxeFx I some how had it set to rear input instead of front input in the I/O section. It sounded terrible and I could not figure out what was going on. Once I changed it to front input it sounded great.

Jay W

[ripley156]

Man, I wish that was that easy...

It is set to front input and plugged-into the front.

i sure do appreciate the response though...I REALLy want to make this work!

[jayjerry]

Man, I wish that was that easy...

It is set to front input and plugged-into the front.

i sure do appreciate the response though...I REALLy want to make this work!


Ok I figured I just run that by you since I made that mistake..
With my single coil strats I run the input all the way up. With my humbucker guitars I go way past 2:00 on the input as well.

[Elmer]

I have also downloaded a few patches from the Fractal forum that I couldn't make sound good, but I've been fooling with a basic Carol-Ann setup this morning that someone posted on the Fractal forum and it just kills. Of course, now I can't find the thread from which I downloaded the patch... :huh

Anyway, I don't think I modified the settings at all and it sounds really nice run through my little home recording setup and monitored with a pair of KRK V6's. I'd think it would sound equally nice on your M-Audio monitors. If you want, I can email you the patch and you can A: see how it sounds, and B: see how it is set up.

Also, as already mentioned, if you can put some clips up somewhere it would make it easier to suggest things for you to look at.

[JWDubois]

You may or not be crazy, but I'd suspect your monitors. I've played Zoom, Line 6, Vox, and Boss modelers through my FRFR, and they have all pretty much sounded variously thin, buzzy, harsh, honkey, or all at the same time. No amount of eq could make them work right.

The only success I could get was playing them through an amp, after a significant amount of tweaking.

When I got my Ultra I started out plugging it into the FRFR as a first test, figuring it would be too bright and harsh, like all the other modelers through the FRFR. Wrong. The Ultra is perfect through my FRFR. I haven't had to touch the eq.

On some of the higher gain patches I have turned off the drive block, and on some of the amp models the "bright" switch (under the treble knob) can be turned off to mellow out the sound. Cab selection is a big deal too, some of the cabs are much more mellow than others.

I'm using a Strat too, since you mentioned it. Make sure your input level is high enough to drive it right. With my Strat I am running 3:00 to full on without getting a red light at the input.

JWW

[JKos]

What version of firmware do you have?

For me, all of the factory presets sound good. I only find a handful of them ultimately useful, but none of them sound awful in any way. I run direct to either JBL LSR28P or KRK Rokit 6 G2 monitors.

- John

[ripley156]

Running 9.03 atm...

I am going to try to post a clip in the next day or two...Hopefully that will help.

You guys are great, please keep the suggestions coming

[Dancing Frog]

I am running my Axe-FX through a Atomic Reactor FR and the vocal channel of a Compact AER 60/2 while waiting for a second Reactor. I can tell you the solid state AER alone to be a bit honky.

I can suggest a couple of things. First, start with a model of an amp and cab that you know. If it's a nonmaster type amp, you want to set the drive to around 5 or 6 to get a similar feel for the master. Tweak the amp so it sounds the best to you. Second, put a GEQ downstream of the cab. From there, go to each band indivually and turn it up +3 db and down +3 db. If you can't hear the difference, try 6 dB instead. Write down what sounds better and what sounds worse to you. Then, using that as your guide, tweak the GEQ so it sounds the best. Then, take those GEQ settings to other patches. If they sound better, it's probably what you're playing it through. You can then use the GEQ for the global settings. If not, it's the patches which would not be surprising at all since we don't what kind of guitar each patch was designed around.

I have also found that the right Red Wirez IR for your cabs can really make a big difference in the sound. It really took the honk out of my AER. It's like $8 a cab, so it not much of a cost investment. That's another thing to try.

[solo-act]

You gotta train your ear for dialing tone. Some people have that skill set naturally, others have to learn bit by bit. There's lots of fundamentals to learn if you're not experienced at dialing amps or software amps.

If someone's axe-fx rig (recorded direct to computer) sounds great through your monitors, but when you download that patch (same amp, cab, settings etc) to your Ultra, and it sounds like crap..... then (assuming your input signal is strong enough) your guitar is drastically different and it doesn't matter how you play. But if your guitar is similar (woods, pickup type, string gauge) and your playing is in the same ballpark dynamics-wise, then even if you play like crap, you'll still have good tone. Remember, other's patches are made for other's hands, guitars, string gauge, playing style, etc -- NOT yours.

Do that A/B comparison like above -- I'm wondering if it ain't your guitar.

[Scott Peterson]

How does commercial music sound through your monitors? Good/bad/okay? How are you connecting to them? (What ouputs on the Axe-FX, what cables, levels, EQ after the Axe-FX?)

Let's isolate what you are doing from the monitors on back to the Axe-FX. I'd focus on the actual presets and settings within after analyzing what you are doing to monitor the thing.

[mwc2112]

I've found that very few of the amps sound great when you just add that and a cab (BTW - which cabs are you using?). Much of the time the levels are too high... so you need to cut the 'level' control on the 2nd page of the amp block. The next thing I find tweaking is the hi-cut and lo-cut parms (on the advanced page of the amp block). After that I start tweaking it just like a normal amp: treb, mid, bass, presence, drive, and master. Then I dive into the rest of the poweramp parms: depth, damp, and sag. Once those are done then I'm usually good to go or, if needed, make some minor tweaks in the advanced page.

[Gasp100]

Is the output set right? I don't have one in front of me, but I guess Output 1 should be set to stereo, not Sum to MONO or something like that? I had one AxeFX that was somehow set Sum to MONO when I first got it and there was some phase option or something that was reversed? I guess it was like this for using a stereo cab setup, but not having the cabs panned and not playing a stereo rig?
I forget the global options and IO options right now, maybe someone else can chime it?

[Dexter.Sinister]

As Scott suggested, recordings of your playing, without a ton of effects, may help us help you a lot . Settings will vary depending on your attack, whether you use picks or nails or flesh, your technique (more legato, more pizzicato, etc) the sort of strings you use on the guitar, the pickups in your guitar and how you run the guitar's volume and tone controls, etc.

I have heard a dozen different guitarists play the same piece of music on the same amplifier (Bogner Duende) using a couple different guitars and the amp settings needed to be changed for each to dial in a sound that we all agreed was "good". The most significant variable when using the same guitar was player technique. For example, flesh brings out very different tones than a pick, and different shaped picks made of different materials and held with different fingers with different grip tightness varied the tonality and how the notes bloomed and rang out A LOT. Some of this could be "corrected" or made more "homogeneous" using the tone controls and altering the gain a bit. It was ear-opening for the people that hadn't extensive experience playing professionally.

DS

[bjjp2]

Play with the "input" knob. It's like fiddling with your guitar volume. It will clean up a raunchy sound.

Also try a mono hi res cab and use an R121 mike. Fiddle with different cabs. Cabs make a huge difference in the sound of a patch.

[ripley156]

Guys...

I can't thank everyone enough for the comments...

I think I have identified several things wrong based on this thread...I have my axe sounding MUCH MUCH MUCH better than it was yesterday

1. I checked my monitors. I had them on a shelve behind my workspace closer to the wall. Moving them away opened-up a lot of sound. To do this, I also disconnect my Apogee Duet which I had the axe running-into via the 1/4". I have not hooked the Duet back up (the 1/4" plugs are running directly from the monitor to the Axe), but I have a feeling a lot of the problem was there...I had not checked that as (to be honest) I almost forgot it was in signal chain.

2. On those monitors, I turned the volume down in the back of the monitors from 95% to 60%.

3. Doing Step #3, I had to turn-up the output 1 knob on the Axe from about 9:00 to 12:00...That made a HUGE difference

With all of this said, again, you guys are awesome! I am starting to hear the fuss...When I create a blank layout and add the Orange with almost no gain and a Marshall cab, it sounds pretty cool! Before, it was a wild, huge ugly mess.

[mtlin]

Glad to hear you're making progress! Unfortunately, your monitors are almost as important as the Ax-FX itself and good ones are expensive. If you're digging your tones now, consider upgrading to better monitors at some point. I use Event Studio Precision 8's and they are a bit spendy but sound great.

[bjjp2]

Guys...

I can't thank everyone enough for the comments...

I think I have identified several things wrong based on this thread...I have my axe sounding MUCH MUCH MUCH better than it was yesterday

1. I checked my monitors. I had them on a shelve behind my workspace closer to the wall. Moving them away opened-up a lot of sound. To do this, I also disconnect my Apogee Duet which I had the axe running-into via the 1/4". I have not hooked the Duet back up (the 1/4" plugs are running directly from the monitor to the Axe), but I have a feeling a lot of the problem was there...I had not checked that as (to be honest) I almost forgot it was in signal chain.

2. On those monitors, I turned the volume down in the back of the monitors from 95% to 60%.

3. Doing Step #3, I had to turn-up the output 1 knob on the Axe from about 9:00 to 12:00...That made a HUGE difference

With all of this said, again, you guys are awesome! I am starting to hear the fuss...When I create a blank layout and add the Orange with almost no gain and a Marshall cab, it sounds pretty cool! Before, it was a wild, huge ugly mess.

Turning the Output knob up shouldn't affect anything except the overall volume.

[ripley156]

Turning the Output knob up shouldn't affect anything except the overall volume.

Is it possible I have something happening with my monitors or the Axe? I did this multiple times and it seems to make a huge difference?!? At least to my ears, I am not hearing the same tone when the output is at 9:00 vs. 12:00 on many of the higher-gain patches

[AndrewSimon]

Is it possible I have something happening with my monitors or the Axe? I did this multiple times and it seems to make a huge difference?!? At least to my ears, I am not hearing the same tone when the output is at 9:00 vs. 12:00 on many of the higher-gain patches

Of course it makes a difference, signal to noise ratio, dynamic headroom, imperfect response curve problems reduced.
Supplying adequate input level definitely improves the sound.
I would go even higher, put the Output knob at 2:00 and adjust the speakers accordingly.

:rimshot

[Devnor]

You may or not be crazy, but I'd suspect your monitors. I've played Zoom, Line 6, Vox, and Boss modelers through my FRFR, and they have all pretty much sounded variously thin, buzzy, harsh, honkey, or all at the same time. No amount of eq could make them work right.

Adam A7 Monitors connected via RME Fireface800. Buzzy, harsh...not pretty. Talking high gain tones here. Yeah, I play with too much gain. Many suggestions include a guitar speaker cabinet which isnt the direction I wanna go...was hoping to eliminate the cabs. Clean stuff is fine actually super nice, mid gain stuff I play ala Jeff Beck sounds great. Recreating the sounds of my Mark II C+ and SLO100 thru monitors are a different story.

I'll try goosing the output level knob.

[Jay Mitchell]

I'll try goosing the output level knob.The output level control does not affect the tone of the Axe-Fx. If affects only the level of the analog signal that appears at its output. If you turn its output level up, then compensate by reducing the level in a downstream device, you won't have changed anything.

[gag halfrunt]

Turning the Output knob up shouldn't affect anything except the overall volume.

Not totally true.

The output knob on the Axe changes the output volume significantly. How this will effect your final tone depends COMPLETELY on your amplifier. Just like slamming the loop of an amp with a boost, a big volume increase out of the Axe is going to change your tone.

[Jay Mitchell]

Just like slamming the loop of an amp with a boost, a big volume increase out of the Axe is going to change your tone.Only if you're not using a clean, neutral power amp that is not being driven into clip. IOW, if you're driving a guitar amp with the Axe-Fx, there will be a difference (but not because of anything in the Axe-Fx changing). OTOH, if you're using what I like to call a "real" power amp - one that is designed specifically to amplify, as opposed to coloring, the sound - and if you don't drive the amp into clipping, changing the Axe-Fx output level will only affect volume, not tone.

[gag halfrunt]

Only if you're not using a clean, neutral power amp that is not being driven into clip. IOW, if you're driving a guitar amp with the Axe-Fx, there will be a difference (but not because of anything in the Axe-Fx changing). OTOH, if you're using what I like to call a "real" power amp - one that is designed specifically to amplify, as opposed to coloring, the sound - and if you don't drive the amp into clipping, changing the Axe-Fx output level will only affect volume, not tone.

Doesn't everything clip? :D

True words, Jay. Thanks for clarifying. I should have made the distinction.

I do run my Axe into a tube power amp, and there is a very large difference in the tone as I run the output from low to high. I've wondered how much SS power you'd need to push a cab for an unmic-ed club gig, without worrying about clipping.

[Jay Mitchell]

Doesn't everything clip? :DEventually. If you want the Axe-Fx to completely control your tone, you need enough power to hurt yourself - or your speakers - before you hit the clip point. :dude


I've wondered how much SS power you'd need to push a cab for an unmic-ed club gig, without worrying about clipping.The amp in my powered monitor produces ~400 watts, and I never clip it. But I don't play that loud, either.

[emperor_black]

Also on the input, make sure you have it turned up just enough that its "tickling the red" meaning when you stum real hard, only then the red indicator should light up and occasionally when you're playing...

[gag halfrunt]

Also on the input, make sure you have it turned up just enough that its "tickling the red" meaning when you stum real hard, only then the red indicator should light up and occasionally when you're playing...

Yup.

Learned this lesson the hard way. :bkw

[wilerty]

Guys...

I can't thank everyone enough for the comments...

I think I have identified several things wrong based on this thread...I have my axe sounding MUCH MUCH MUCH better than it was yesterday

1. I checked my monitors. I had them on a shelve behind my workspace closer to the wall. Moving them away opened-up a lot of sound. To do this, I also disconnect my Apogee Duet which I had the axe running-into via the 1/4". I have not hooked the Duet back up (the 1/4" plugs are running directly from the monitor to the Axe), but I have a feeling a lot of the problem was there...I had not checked that as (to be honest) I almost forgot it was in signal chain.

2. On those monitors, I turned the volume down in the back of the monitors from 95% to 60%.

3. Doing Step #3, I had to turn-up the output 1 knob on the Axe from about 9:00 to 12:00...That made a HUGE difference

With all of this said, again, you guys are awesome! I am starting to hear the fuss...When I create a blank layout and add the Orange with almost no gain and a Marshall cab, it sounds pretty cool! Before, it was a wild, huge ugly mess.

I believe your monitors are rear ported, so how close they are to a wall will make a huge difference.