Multiple cabs with AxeFX and power amp?

[Gasp100]

I was just thinking about this last night. Because the AxeFX has so many amp sims and the "weak link" (if you really consider this a weak link) with the AxeFX is having to use cab sims + high quality/cost IR's and FRFR to produce the best AND most versatile tones possible, does anyone use:
AxeFX + power amp + particular cabs to match the amp tones you are looking for?
I've already done the power amp + guitar cab thing using the AxeFX with mixed results. My experience was that depending on the type of cab/speakers some stuff sounded great, a lot of other stuff sounded lame. Also, I was always shooting for one cab and one set of speakers that were neutral as possible to try and handle all the amp sims equally.
I wondering in hindsight if you gravitate towards one or a few main amp sims for live, "in the room" playing would getting a cab/speaker setup to match that one (or few) rigs sound great?
There is a killer demo of the Egnater MOD50 from Indoor Storm and they use the same Marshall 4x12 with V30's for demo'ing all modules. It sounds absolutely amazing to my ears, but of course the Marshall + higher gain stuff seems to sit the best.
I guess what I'm asking is if anyone owns multiple real cab/speakers that they match with the AxeFX + power amp depending on their particular rig/mood? I'm definitely going FRFR (probably the QSC K10 this go round) but it would be pretty sweet to invest in a real cab (or two or three) in the future for this type of pairing. Maybe a Marshall with Scumbacks, Vox with Blues and Bassman or Bandmaster cab with JBL's :)

[paulmapp8306]

Kind of.

I only have one 2x12 Cab, But it has 2 different speakers in in. In my case a V30 and a G12H (though that may be getting changed for a CL80).

The cab can be 8 Ohms mono (one input feeding both speakers) OR a stereo 16 Ohm per side cab (2 seperate inputs).

The Cab itself has 3 removable back pannels - so can be used in open, closed or 3/4 closed format.

I tend to use the Cab format depending on the music. Mainly clean gets open back, mainly rock gets closed back, a mix gets 3/4.

It is ported too, so in closed mode its kinda like a 4x12 response, in open back the port has no effect, and in 3/4 back it has the air of the openback format with some weight added from the port.

As far as the speakers, I run each from one side of my 2:50:2 PA. I then "mix" the patches to taste. Panned fully Left I get the V30, Fully Right gets the G12H. Anywhere in the middle mixes the two together in any ammount I need (90/10 or 50/50 say).

While not exactly what your asking, as its still a bit of a compromise, it does offer a lot more flexability that one 2x12 closed back cab fed with a single mono signal.

[BSHARP]

I run output 2 into the amp section of a 100W Marrshall with a 4x12 V30 Bottom. The Cab sims are off and the Global EQ set for the room.For an even bigger smile, I also run the FRFR on output 1. I agree the Egnator Mod 50 demos sound good and if I was in the market for a new Head that would be a front runner, but, there is also another demo on Youtube of the Axe going head to toe with the Mod 50 and the Axe can do everything the Mod 50 can do and so much more.

[mattball826]

I run output 2 into the amp section of a 100W Marrshall with a 4x12 V30 Bottom. The Cab sims are off and the Global EQ set for the room.For an even bigger smile, I also run the FRFR on output 1. I agree the Egnator Mod 50 demos sound good and if I was in the market for a new Head that would be a front runner, but, there is also another demo on Youtube of the Axe going head to toe with the Mod 50 and the Axe can do everything the Mod 50 can do and so much more.

yeah but the mod50 is the amp and cab. now your talking about adding an amp, a cab, frfr sys, modeling preamp to sound like a mod 50 :confused:

[Gasp100]

I run output 2 into the amp section of a 100W Marrshall with a 4x12 V30 Bottom. The Cab sims are off and the Global EQ set for the room.For an even bigger smile, I also run the FRFR on output 1. I agree the Egnator Mod 50 demos sound good and if I was in the market for a new Head that would be a front runner, but, there is also another demo on Youtube of the Axe going head to toe with the Mod 50 and the Axe can do everything the Mod 50 can do and so much more.

Hmmm... I will need to search out that clip for sure.

To the original reply'er, that 2x12 cab you have sounds insane! What type is it?

[BSHARP]

The Axe is not trying to sound like the Mod 50 because afterall the Mod 50 is a modeling amp itself that gives you the option of selecting two modules (two trick pony) The Axe does all this and gives you hundreds of other choices plus effects. For me it is a no-brainer, the Axe wins this comparison.

[paulmapp8306]

Hmmm... I will need to search out that clip for sure.

To the original reply'er, that 2x12 cab you have sounds insane! What type is it?

Its a custom built cab by Zilla (UK make).

They do several "stock" varieties. the studio is an oversized 2x12, and comes either with the port OR with the removable back pannells. I got him to do both - no extra cost.

Cant post pics from work, but its a kind of dark green colour with basket weave cloth and gold piping. It has a front vallanec that make it look quite "traditional" and classy looking. However with the port/pannels it is really versatile for studio use and gives a nice variety of sounds live. The stereo in was also my idea specifically for use with the axe so I could "blend" the speakers by panning my patches L/R.

EDIT* now with pics:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u65/paulmapp8306/general/SDC11617.jpg

[stratzrus]

...does anyone use:
AxeFX + power amp + particular cabs to match the amp tones you are looking for?I often run my Ultra into the effects return of my Rivera KHR 100 using it's 100 watt 6L6 power amp to push two 4x12s with a mix of EV SRO/12Ls, Celestion Sidewinders and V30's.

It does the clean thing very well (which was my goal). Huge soundstage from the side by side 4x12s that are sitting on two 2x12s for elevation.

[dspellman]

I'm running a 2000W stereo power amp into a pair of 2x12's that carry a pair of Eminence Delta Pro 12A speakers (400W each speaker) and a pair of 1165 (400W each tweeter) tweeters. The cabs are sized and ported for 50Hz and the speakers have a resonance of 52 Hz and a frequency response of 50-4500. The tweeters run to 20Khz.

Actual output of the 2000W power amp is 740W per side at 4 ohm into each of the cabinets. I have a 100W (50W/50W) stereo tube amp with EL34's as a backup. The speakers are usually arranged one cabinet on either side of the drummer to maximize the sound field across which stereo FX can act (time delay FX in particular benefit from stereo reproduction -- a spinning Leslie sounds enormous).

In the case of the stratzrus setup, above, you would want to note that the Rivera is pushing a mix of eight speakers with 100 watts, which gives approximately 12.5 watts to each speaker, and it's a mono system. This is not going to be conducive to reproduction of low frequencies (not enough power) and the speakers used all begin to roll off at 4000Hz.

The problem with using guitar speakers/cabinets (rather than a full-range system) is that they rarely reproduce much below 100 Hz. A Vintage 30, for example, bottoms out at around 70Hz, but is already rolling off beginning at 100Hz. In ordinary guitar-based use, that won't even reproduce the primary frequencies of the low B on a 7-string guitar and in fact struggles with an open E2 (81Hz, approximately) on an ordinary 6-string. Worse, there just isn't enough power to reproduce those frequencies at rock volumes with a 100W amp. In addition, while they can produce the primaries relative to the highest E string at around 3000Hz, they roll off before the harmonics can contribute.

The problem becomes worse with a modeler, which relies on subtleties at both ends of the spectrum to reproduce amp/cab models. Add an acoustic guitar or a Variax-type modeler to the system and there's no hope of fidelity or even reasonably good reproduction in a guitar amp.

[dspellman]

One option for decent reproduction with a modeler is to go directly to a PA-type speaker with a built in power amp. If you have stereo output from your modeler, this becomes a pretty cool setup. For example -- the Carvin LM 12A reproduces from about 56Hz to 18Khz and has a 350 power amp built in (actually two separate amps; a 300W LF amp and a 50W HF amp). You just run your modeler direct into the speakers (which can be mounted on poles).

Four of these would give you two per side, with a total of 700W per side (1400W total), stereo reproduction over a very wide sound field, NO treble beaming problems (as 4x12's have), better bass reproduction than any 4x12 (an inherently tragic design for bottom end).

Cost would be $759 per pair or about $1500 for the entire rig including cables (there are obviously other companies besides Carvin that sell these; I'm using this for illustration of the concept). You have some redundancy in the fact that should one power amp go down, you have three more. You can run two aimed at front center audience, two hung higher and aimed more toward the back of the room.
The speakers weigh just 34 pounds apiece and can fit easily in the backseat of a small car (each speaker is 24" x 16 x 13). Total rig weight would be 136 pounds. By comparison a standard single 4x12 can easily weigh 100 pounds. Double that and add 35 pounds for a 100w tube head for a total rig weight of 235 pounds and plan on an SUV or van to carry it.

[Gasp100]

Wow, dspellman that sounds like an incredible rig you have there. I believe Stratzrus also does the FRFR thing too, just sometimes falls back to the Rivera/4x12 setup for fun?
My initial setup will definitely be FRFR (on a much smaller scale, mono to start using one QSC K10).
I do have a general question about guitar frequencies. So from what I understand most "normal" guitar speakers don't really provide much "good" sonic information below ~100hz or above 3500-4000khz? And, I know that many people (myself included) started to use the technique of putting a parametric EQ block behind the amp + cab in BLOCKING mode to cut all frequencies sharply below just around 100hz and above 4000khz or so. Is the idea there to try and match patches that you have built to provide the same sonic frequencies/field as what normally happens in any regular guitar amp / cab setup?
And if so, if your results are more realistic using the PEQ technique and the frequencies listed are truely blocked, does this dimish the overall quality of your FRFR tone?
Wouldn't this make using FRFR less important? Or, is using the FRFR the only way to get the true character of the different types of speakers, even within that range?

"...struggles with an open E2 (81Hz, approximately) on an ordinary 6-string" -- I usually blocked right around 85-100hz on most patches. I was also playing very low volume most of the time through studio monitors so reproducing those tones at loud volumes was never tested.
"highest E string at around 3000Hz, they roll off before the harmonics can contribute" -- I definitely want some high order harmonic content in my patches, that is where all the swirl and 3D tone comes from, right?