anyone have dual citizenship? worth having?

[wsaraceni]

i've been looking and it seems like i may qualify for italian citizenship even though i am 5 generations removed. still trying to figure out if its worth the effort and the cost. anyone have dual citizenship?

[52ftbuddha]

pm'd

[Mike Fleming]

I have dual citizenship, US and Ireland. I love it. I have it due to my grandparents being born there. (they moved back with my mom for a while too.)

I've traveled a lot in Europe and played a fair amount of music there too and it goes from being a simple fun convenience, like at airports when you can use the fast line, to being a major convenience when you actually want to get into matters of making money.

Plus i'd still like to live and work in europe someday and being a citizen of an EU country gives me a pretty vast array of options with zero visa issues.

For me, it wasn't all that costly money wise but it took quite a while. First i had to write to Ireland for birth certificates, which took months. Then i had to apply to get put in the book of foreign births, which took several more months. Then i got my certificate of that and sent it back with all the rest of the stuff again to get a passport, and that took another several months. So it was probably two years altogether. So what though...it was a fun process.

Once funny thing about the irish process is you have to get your pictures vouched for by somebody of stature, but the requirements are pretty peculiar, like "doctor, judge, lawyer, teacher, priest..."

[wsaraceni]

seems italy is a similar setup to what you had. i need birth certificates and marriage certs for everyone in the line. and thats like 5 generations worth.

are there any negatives that you see?

"Plus i'd still like to live and work in europe someday and being a citizen of an EU country gives me a pretty vast array of options with zero visa issues."

that seems like a good bonus right there.

[Mike Fleming]

I can not see a negative for the life of me. It's awesome.

[52ftbuddha]

I think I should add a bit to the forum for those that have an interest in this. As a Federal employee you can not hold citizenship in the country outside of the US that you work in. If you are a dual national from the UK you can not work in the UK without renouncing your UK citizenship.

rob

[Randy]

i've been looking and it seems like i may qualify for italian citizenship even though i am 5 generations removed. still trying to figure out if its worth the effort and the cost. anyone have dual citizenship?


Can you tell me where you researched this? You've got me interested in looking into it myself.

[wsaraceni]

I think I should add a bit to the forum for those that have an interest in this. As a Federal employee you can not hold citizenship in the country outside of the US that you work in. If you are a dual national from the UK you can not work in the UK without renouncing your UK citizenship.

rob

Rob,

are you saying if you are a dual citizen, say US and Italy, you cannot work FOR the US but within ITALY. But you would be ok to work in say Poland?

[Fendegibs]

I've got dual with Canada. I like having the Canadian passport for some traveling (work brings me to some areas where I find it somewhat advantageous).

[wsaraceni]

Can you tell me where you researched this? You've got me interested in looking into it myself.

ive read about 50 sites so far. they all say about the same thing
http://www.italiandualcitizenship.com/ is one of the sites, they try to sell you the paperwork though. it seems the small details are hard to follow, like for example, if the person came to the US and was naturalized after they had kids you are ok but if they were naturalized before you would have a problem. stuff like that. read the website. google italian dual citizenship and read a bunch more. if i decide to go through with it, ill post more but its looking like it may be a while away. i'd probably want to take a trip to europe first before even considering it.

[Mike Fleming]

I would deal with people at the consulate for starters if i were you guys. i just checked out the new york consulate site and it had some stuff about citizenship by descent. The qualifications are not as clear cut as they were for the irish process, though. The irish process was, if you had a grandparent born in ireland, you can get put in the book. The section on the italian consulate site however lists multiple possible conditions, and also says "you need to give us your details so we can check the law at the time of your birth." that is not very clear cut.

Still, it's probably the best place to start. I doubt you would need to go through a third party service to get this done.

here's the part from the italian consulate site:

1. WHO MAY APPLY
If you are resident within the jurisdiction of the Italian Consulate in New York: the Municipality of New York City, the State of New York, the State of Connecticut and the British Territories of Bermuda Islands, you may apply for Italian citizenship at the Consulate General of Italy in New York.

If you were born in the United States you may also be considered an Italian citizen if any one of the situations listed below pertains to you:

Category 1) your father was an Italian citizen at the time of your birth and you never renounced your right to Italian citizenship;
Category 2) your mother was an Italian citizen at the time of your birth, you were born after January 1, 1948, and you never renounced your right to Italian citizenship;
Category 3) your father was born in the United States or a Country other than Italy, your paternal grandfather was an Italian citizen at the time of your father’s birth, neither you nor your father ever renounced your right to the Italian citizenship;
Category 4) your mother was born in the United States or a Country other than Italy, your maternal grandfather was an Italian citizen at the time of your mother’s birth, you were born after January 1, 1948 and neither you nor your mother ever renounced your right to Italian citizenship;
Category 5) your paternal or maternal grandparents were born in the United States from Italian parents and they never renounced their right to Italian citizenship. (Please note: the Italian mother can transfer her Italian citizenship only to children born after 01/01/1948).

NOTE:
To determine if you are eligible for Italian citizenship, the Italian Consulate must look at the law that was in effect at the time of your birth. Individuals can become citizens under several very different sections of law or can automatically lose the citizenship through the naturalization of either of the parents.
If you are claiming citizenship through an Italian citizen mother or grandmother, you must provide information about your father or grandfather, because Italian citizenship may be affected by the naturalization of their respective spouses.
top (http://www.consnewyork.esteri.it/NR/exeres/9F0288DC-69D1-46F7-AE8B-4F8687831E3E,frameless.htm?NRMODE=Published#0)

[otterhound]

I have no idea what your age is , but if you apply and are granted the dual citizenship , be careful that you are not conscripted for Italian military service if you decide to live there . I personally know someone that had this exact issue . There were " asking " him to do four years in the Italian Navy .

[Dexter.Sinister]

Yes and yes.

Having EU and USA tags is useful. Also Canada + USA tags is useful (IME).

DS

[ducatisteve]

I was born in Taiwan and my dad is American. Having DC never really made a big difference in my life.

[Luke]

My girlfriend has her Italian, Canadian and US citizenships.

For inheritance issues eventually it will make the transfer of funds easier, but in the meantime I see no positive or negative for her line of work.

[Bluedawg]

I have no idea what your age is , but if you apply and are granted the dual citizenship , be careful that you are not conscripted for Italian military service if you decide to live there . I personally know someone that had this exact issue . There were " asking " him to do four years in the Italian Navy .


+1 Some countries will require military service .. ..


I know of Greek friends who have had to deal with this ... IIRC Greece considers you a Greek citizen if your grandfather was a citizen ... if you set foot in Greece and they find out you're of Greek decent you may find yourself hauled off to boot camp if what I've been told is true.

Good Luck

:munch

[Dexter.Sinister]

My girlfriend has her Italian, Canadian and US citizenships.

For inheritance issues eventually it will make the transfer of funds easier, but in the meantime I see no positive or negative for her line of work.

Travel is way easier...

[52ftbuddha]

OP, yes you are only limited to US Gov employment in the country you hold dual citizenship in. So if you are IT/US you could work for the US gov in any country other than Italy.

rob

[slopeshoulder]

I have dual citizenship, US and Ireland. I love it. I have it due to my grandparents being born there. (they moved back with my mom for a while too.)

I've traveled a lot in Europe and played a fair amount of music there too and it goes from being a simple fun convenience, like at airports when you can use the fast line, to being a major convenience when you actually want to get into matters of making money.

Plus i'd still like to live and work in europe someday and being a citizen of an EU country gives me a pretty vast array of options with zero visa issues.

For me, it wasn't all that costly money wise but it took quite a while. First i had to write to Ireland for birth certificates, which took months. Then i had to apply to get put in the book of foreign births, which took several more months. Then i got my certificate of that and sent it back with all the rest of the stuff again to get a passport, and that took another several months. So it was probably two years altogether. So what though...it was a fun process.

Once funny thing about the irish process is you have to get your pictures vouched for by somebody of stature, but the requirements are pretty peculiar, like "doctor, judge, lawyer, teacher, priest..."

Same here. Bottom line: I'm an EU citizen. And I'd LOVE to live there. But the fact is that my business network is here and making a living there at this stage, as I do here (clients for one biz, audience and readers for 2nd) is not so replicable. So it's mostly a convenience, a dream, and a story at parties.

[pfflam]

I am French and American

[pfflam]

Oh yeah . . . I could probably apply for Irish too

[StompBoxBlues]

I guess it must be different in different countries.

When I moved to Norway, 18 years ago, been living here ever since, I looked into it. It is very confusing but as I came to understand it...

Here at least, they would require giving up my US passport, which I won't do. So basically it would not be possible. Children up to 18 years can have dual citizenship but after that must choose one or the other.

Also, the US doesn't "recognize" dual citizenship, but rather if you are a US citizen (and say Irish citizen) they simply see you as US unless you renounce it. Interesting about renouncing US citizenship, it seems (if I recall correctly) not very defined.

Bottom line, as far as I could tell, to become a norwegian, I would have to give up my US (at least passport). So...that wasn't really an option for me.

I may have misunderstood, but that was what the deal was as far as I could tell and I did a bunch of research.

[chell]

I have a German and a British passport. As far as military service is concerned: Italy has abolished conscription as far as I know. I, on the other hand, will have to serve in the German army soon (or perform community service). Dual citizenship doesn't protect you.

I didn't know you could get Italian citizenship even if you're a 5th generation American. That's pretty cool.

[wsaraceni]

I didn't know you could get Italian citizenship even if you're a 5th generation American. That's pretty cool.

still researching that part, but it does seem to be the case. hardest part seems to be finding the correct records

[edgarallanpoe]

I am a citizen of Trinidad and Tobago as well as the US. I can't see any negatives. I am considering moving to Trinidad when I retire but that is years from now. I am also looking into buying a rental property down there.

[otterhound]

+1 Some countries will require military service .. ..


I know of Greek friends who have had to deal with this ... IIRC Greece considers you a Greek citizen if your grandfather was a citizen ... if you set foot in Greece and they find out you're of Greek decent you may find yourself hauled off to boot camp if what I've been told is true.

Good Luck

:munch
For some reason , the words , " Greek boot camp " send chills up my spine . :worried

[PUCKBOY99]

All 4 of my grand-parents came over from Ireland in the 20's. My mother has been looking into this and she asked if I wanted to too.

I'm not sure what the purpose of it all is...What are the pros & cons ?

In my limited reading on the subject, I really didn't see anything that led me one way or another.

[germs]

in order to qualify for EU citizen status, you must renounce your US status.

so while you may live and work in the US, you've effectively given up your guaranteed Constitutional Rights. say there's an attack in the US done by someone from your country. don't be surprised when your door gets kicked in! nope, ain't a citizen anymore. can't complain. don't like it? move away to the other country. you also forfeit the protectorate of the realm when travelling abroad (no more USMC to bail your drunk ass out at 2 AM at the Embassy).

that's a scary thought...

it sounds cool and Continental on paper, but the reality is far more stark.

i only found out when my sister wanted to marry an Austrian - the pre-req's are even harsher: you have to be married to an EU citizen to even be considered, and then for 7 years. get divorced? lose your EU citizenship and out you go once your Visa is either cancelled or expires.

but whatever, it's up to you.

[Telecaster62]

It's interesting to see how attitudes have changed. My German grandfather absolutely insisted that his children only speak English and call themselves American at all times. It seems that in the 1920's when my mom was born it was not considered a good thing for immigrants to cling to their former countries. Yet, a lot of their cultural identity remained somewhat intact. Around here we have different neighborhoods that were "German" or "Italian" or "Irish" and identified by name. Those neighborhoods didn't lose their cultural identity until the 1950's. I wonder how Papa would feel about it today and whether he'd want me to obtain dual USA/German citizenship.

[edgarallanpoe]

in order to qualify for EU citizen status, you must renounce your US status.

so while you may live and work in the US, you've effectively given up your guaranteed Constitutional Rights. say there's an attack in the US done by someone from your country. don't be surprised when your door gets kicked in! nope, ain't a citizen anymore. can't complain. don't like it? move away to the other country. you also forfeit the protectorate of the realm when travelling abroad (no more USMC to bail your drunk ass out at 2 AM at the Embassy).

that's a scary thought...

it sounds cool and Continental on paper, but the reality is far more stark.

i only found out when my sister wanted to marry an Austrian - the pre-req's are even harsher: you have to be married to an EU citizen to even be considered, and then for 7 years. get divorced? lose your EU citizenship and out you go once your Visa is either cancelled or expires.

but whatever, it's up to you.

Are you an immigration lawyer or are you just talking out of your arse?

[PUCKBOY99]

in order to qualify for EU citizen status, you must renounce your US status.

so while you may live and work in the US, you've effectively given up your guaranteed Constitutional Rights. say there's an attack in the US done by someone from your country. don't be surprised when your door gets kicked in! nope, ain't a citizen anymore. can't complain. don't like it? move away to the other country. you also forfeit the protectorate of the realm when travelling abroad (no more USMC to bail your drunk ass out at 2 AM at the Embassy).

that's a scary thought...

it sounds cool and Continental on paper, but the reality is far more stark.

i only found out when my sister wanted to marry an Austrian - the pre-req's are even harsher: you have to be married to an EU citizen to even be considered, and then for 7 years. get divorced? lose your EU citizenship and out you go once your Visa is either cancelled or expires.

but whatever, it's up to you.

This may be true in the countries in question for you, but not with the US/Ireland.

http://www.movetoireland.com/movepag/pascitzn.htm

Ireland does not require foreign citizenship to be dropped in order to get an Irish passport. In other words, Ireland allows you to be simultaneously a citizen of Ireland and of another country. This dual citizenenship has, of course, many advantages, in that you can readily enter and exit both nations.

However, as a word of warning, many non-Irish governments do not allow dual citizenship, so you might have to give up your native citizenship to become an Irish citizen. Check with your native country's foreign affairs department for the rules that apply to you. Most notably, you can be a dual citizen of the United States and Ireland.

[Mike Fleming]

in order to qualify for EU citizen status, you must renounce your US status.

so while you may live and work in the US, you've effectively given up your guaranteed Constitutional Rights. say there's an attack in the US done by someone from your country. don't be surprised when your door gets kicked in! nope, ain't a citizen anymore. can't complain. don't like it? move away to the other country. you also forfeit the protectorate of the realm when travelling abroad (no more USMC to bail your drunk ass out at 2 AM at the Embassy).

that's a scary thought...

it sounds cool and Continental on paper, but the reality is far more stark.

i only found out when my sister wanted to marry an Austrian - the pre-req's are even harsher: you have to be married to an EU citizen to even be considered, and then for 7 years. get divorced? lose your EU citizenship and out you go once your Visa is either cancelled or expires.

but whatever, it's up to you.


Germs, you have no idea what you're talking about. None of that stuff is true. (I don't even really understand the story about your sister.)

Dual citizenship is legal in the United States. To say that we have all lost our U.S. citizenship is nonsense.

From the U.S. State Department Website:

U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

You basically have to intentionally renounce your U.S. citizenship (think Lee Harvey Oswald in Russia) to lose your U.S. citizenship in this process.

Arnold Schwarzenegger is a dual citizen with Austria -- how could he legally be governor of California unless he is still a U.S. citizen?

[germs]

Are you an immigration lawyer or are you just talking out of your arse?

Germs, you have no idea what you're talking about. None of that stuff is true. (I don't even really understand the story about your sister.)

Dual citizenship is legal in the United States. To say that we have all lost our U.S. citizenship is nonsense.

From the U.S. State Department Website:

You basically have to intentionally renounce your U.S. citizenship (think Lee Harvey Oswald in Russia) to lose your U.S. citizenship in this process.

Arnold Schwarzenegger is a dual citizen with Austria -- how could he legally be governor of California unless he is still a U.S. citizen?

perhaps the US does allow dual citizenship, but it's not a two way street. to become a citizen of the EU YOU HAVE TO RENOUNCE CITIZENSHIP ELSEWHERE.

guys - it's not an arugement. this is fact. renouncing your US citizenship is all sorts of repercussion.

are there other, historical examples where running for office requires a minimum US citizenship term (our first few presidents WERE immigrants, after all)? yes, there are. Arnold makes a good example of that.

were some people grandfathered in before the EU took effect? i'm sure.

try it today. looks like all the supporting evidence being supplied still puts up a Disclaimer in BIG BOLD LETTERS saying that your citizenship may still not be recognized so long as it's not entire fealty to the country in question.

the whole world ain't America folks. do the research.

EDIT: my sister wants to marry a man she met while attending school in Austria. she would like to live there with him. in order to obtain any/all healthcare etc, she has to become an EU citizen. to become a citizen of the EU (and obtain all rights and privelages therein), having no parentage OR not being born there, you must first live in the EU for no less than seven (7) years as the spouse of a citizen of the EU. then and only then, you may legally apply for citizenship, but it is still not guaranteed. where is the question?

[xroads]

perhaps the US does allow dual citizenship, but it's not a two way street. to become a citizen of the EU YOU HAVE TO RENOUNCE CITIZENSHIP ELSEWHERE.

guys - it's not an arugement. this is fact. renouncing your US citizenship is all sorts of repercussion.

are there other, historical examples where running for office requires a minimum US citizenship term (our first few presidents WERE immigrants, after all)? yes, there are. Arnold makes a good example of that.

were some people grandfathered in before the EU took effect? i'm sure.

try it today. looks like all the supporting evidence being supplied still puts up a Disclaimer in BIG BOLD LETTERS saying that your citizenship may still not be recognized so long as it's not entire fealty to the country in question.

the whole world ain't America folks. do the research.

EDIT: my sister wants to marry a man she met while attending school in Austria. she would like to live there with him. in order to obtain any/all healthcare etc, she has to become an EU citizen. to become a citizen of the EU (and obtain all rights and privelages therein), having no parentage OR not being born there, you must first live in the EU for no less than seven (7) years as the spouse of a citizen of the EU. then and only then, you may legally apply for citizenship, but it is still not guaranteed. where is the question?

Just to clarify: you cannot become citizen of the EU; you are citizen of one of the member countries of the EU.
And yes, there are countries who don't allow double citizenship (such as Austria and Germany; with exceptions), and there are countries who allow this (such as UK and Ireland).

In general: becoming citizen of a country always implies benefits and duties. Be aware of all of the duties before you make such a step. As example, I did not want to become US citizen because of the duties.

[52ftbuddha]

Germs, for individuals wishing to establish citizenship in a country that is part of the EU without birth right or previous citizenship, what you suggest may be correct but I think to substantiate you statement it would help if you could cite the specific reference. Without reference it sounds like some right wing rhetoric. My right to citizenship in my country of origin is guaranteed by birth and does not require renunciation of my US citizenship.
rob

[Mike Fleming]

perhaps the US does allow dual citizenship, but it's not a two way street. to become a citizen of the EU YOU HAVE TO RENOUNCE CITIZENSHIP ELSEWHERE.

None of us, who are posting, and are dual citizens of the U.S. and EU countries, did that. We have not renounced our citizenship, and we are still U.S. Citizens. Are you trying to tell us we intentionally renounced our citizenship at a foreign consulate or embassy and don't remember doing it?

are there other, historical examples where running for office requires a minimum US citizenship term (our first few presidents WERE immigrants, after all)? yes, there are. Arnold makes a good example of that.

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and if i did, i'd still have no idea how it has anything to do with your argument. According to the constitution of the state of california, a candidate for governor must be a U.S. citizen.

EDIT: my sister wants to marry a man she met while attending school in Austria. she would like to live there with him. in order to obtain any/all healthcare etc, she has to become an EU citizen. to become a citizen of the EU (and obtain all rights and privelages therein), having no parentage OR not being born there, you must first live in the EU for no less than seven (7) years as the spouse of a citizen of the EU. then and only then, you may legally apply for citizenship, but it is still not guaranteed. where is the question?

That only means there are rules for becoming a citizen of an EU country. What is surprising about that? All countries have rules for becoming citizens. But nothing in that paragraph has anything at all to do with dual citizenship. That is where the question is.

[Bluedawg]

perhaps the US does allow dual citizenship, but it's not a two way street. to become a citizen of the EU YOU HAVE TO RENOUNCE CITIZENSHIP ELSEWHERE.

guys - it's not an arugement. this is fact. renouncing your US citizenship is all sorts of repercussion.

are there other, historical examples where running for office requires a minimum US citizenship term (our first few presidents WERE immigrants, after all)? yes, there are. Arnold makes a good example of that.

were some people grandfathered in before the EU took effect? i'm sure.

try it today. looks like all the supporting evidence being supplied still puts up a Disclaimer in BIG BOLD LETTERS saying that your citizenship may still not be recognized so long as it's not entire fealty to the country in question.

the whole world ain't America folks. do the research.

EDIT: my sister wants to marry a man she met while attending school in Austria. she would like to live there with him. in order to obtain any/all healthcare etc, she has to become an EU citizen. to become a citizen of the EU (and obtain all rights and privelages therein), having no parentage OR not being born there, you must first live in the EU for no less than seven (7) years as the spouse of a citizen of the EU. then and only then, you may legally apply for citizenship, but it is still not guaranteed. where is the question?


IIRC the US started allowing dual citizenship in the last 20 years or so.

From what I'm hearing those are probably the correct Austrian rules for what your sister wants to do ... Sounds like Norway doesn't allow dual citizenship either.

I've also known people with dual citizenship and they just don't tell their home country they've picked up US or wherever citizenship, but they keep their old passport up to date and don't tell their home country of about their US citizenship, at least not officially.

but for some countries the rules are different if you can show a properly documented heritage from that country.

As I mentioned earlier if you grandfather or dad was Greek the governent of Greece considers you a citizen of Greece no ifs ands or buts and before you even do any paper work for it. At least that's what I've been told by my Greek American friends.

The first US presidents were not born US citizens (the US didn't exist), but the constitution required that they be born in a colony that became a US state so they weren't really immigrants either.


:wave

[Mike Fleming]

I see what is going on here. Austria seems to prohibit dual citizenship almost completely (arnold is a rare case). so you are describing your sister's issue of wanting to become an Austrian citizen, but not wanting to renounce her U.S. citizenship. that is a valid issue, but it is specific to that country, and like we've all been saying, the first step is the consulate of the country you are interested in, since they all have different laws. Most EU countries are not as restrictive as Austria regarding dual nationality, as many of us here can attest.

[Bluedawg]

I see what is going on here. Austria seems to prohibit dual citizenship almost completely (arnold is a rare case). so you are describing your sister's issue of wanting to become an Austrian citizen, but not wanting to renounce her U.S. citizenship. that is a valid issue, but it is specific to that country, and like we've all been saying, the first step is the consulate of the country you are interested in, since they all have different laws. Most EU countries are not as restrictive as Austria regarding dual nationality, as many of us here can attest.


As for Arnold it may be that he was born Austrian and so he can keep it

or

he never officially renounced his Austrian citrizenship but his celebrity status gives him cover and the Osterreich government just looks the other way in his case now that it's out in the open.

Would be interesting to know the answer to that one.


:huh

[PUCKBOY99]

As for Arnold it may be that he was born Austrian and so he can keep it

or

he never officially renounced his Austrian citrizenship but his celebrity status gives him cover and the Osterreich government just looks the other way in his case now that it's out in the open.

Would be interesting to know the answer to that one.


:huh
I'm guessing he was born in Austria & the US didn't make him renounce his Austrian citizenship in order to obtain US citizenship.

If he was born a US citizen & wanted to become an Austrian citizen, Austria would make him renounce his US citizenship.

Have I understood this correctly ? :rolleyes:

[Bluedawg]

I'm guessing he was born in Austria & the US didn't make him renounce his Austrian citizenship in order to obtain US citizenship.

If he was born a US citizen & wanted to become an Austrian citizen, Austria would make him renounce his US citizenship.

Have I understood this correctly ? :rolleyes:


Seems to be the case


:dunno

[Mike Fleming]

What i saw while googling around is that Austria only recognizes dual citizenship in very rare cases, if you apply for it specifically, and his is one of the very rare ones.

[edgarallanpoe]

What i saw while googling around is that Austria only recognizes dual citizenship in very rare cases, if you apply for it specifically, and his is one of the very rare ones.

That might be true but each country in the EU is *still* a sovereign nation and what might be true for Austria is certainly not automatically true for the entire EU.

[Mike Fleming]

That might be true but each country in the EU is *still* a sovereign nation and what might be true for Austria is certainly not automatically true for the entire EU.

Absolutely true - like I said, many of us posting (including me) are dual citizens with other EU nations.

[germs]

here it is, in plain english - for an outsider trying to come into the EU:

there's a minimum of wait time, either through working or whatever of physically being in country. this is for every single country i've looked at that is a member nation of the EU.

if you don't marry or have direct lineage, you still have to be working there a minimum number of years. the number is arbitrary. the barrier is not.

you cannot simply "apply" for citizenship as the mood strikes, and still live wherever else.

it's plain and simple! why can't others understand this?

[wsaraceni]

here it is, in plain english - for an outsider trying to come into the EU:

there's a minimum of wait time, either through working or whatever of physically being in country. this is for every single country i've looked at that is a member nation of the EU.

if you don't marry or have direct lineage, you still have to be working there a minimum number of years. the number is arbitrary. the barrier is not.

you cannot simply "apply" for citizenship as the mood strikes, and still live wherever else.

it's plain and simple! why can't others understand this?

it's not that plain and simple though. if you do have direct lineage, and can prove it, it seems to be pretty simple. just lots of paperwork. i dont think obtaining dual citizenship means anything at all when you talk about where you plan to live either.

[gregc]

Do you need US security clearance (DOD secret, top secret, DOE L or Q)for your job here in the US? If so, I think there may be an issue there. I know I was asked about it the last time I was investigated.

[pfflam]

None of us, who are posting, and are dual citizens of the U.S. and EU countries, did that. We have not renounced our citizenship, and we are still U.S. Citizens. Are you trying to tell us we intentionally renounced our citizenship at a foreign consulate or embassy and don't remember doing it?


I renounced my French citizenship when I was 18 but then re-applied for it.

[Bluedawg]

here it is, in plain english - for an outsider trying to come into the EU:

there's a minimum of wait time, either through working or whatever of physically being in country. this is for every single country i've looked at that is a member nation of the EU.

if you don't marry or have direct lineage, you still have to be working there a minimum number of years. the number is arbitrary. the barrier is not.

you cannot simply "apply" for citizenship as the mood strikes, and still live wherever else.

it's plain and simple! why can't others understand this?

Yes, yes, for most of us that's true.

The OP has recent family ties to Italy so that's why the thread has gone in that direction.

My family left the UK back in the 1700s or earlier. So I don't think they'll take me back over there without the same hastles your sister is encountering.

:wave

[Mike Fleming]

here it is, in plain english - for an outsider trying to come into the EU:

there's a minimum of wait time, either through working or whatever of physically being in country. this is for every single country i've looked at that is a member nation of the EU.

if you don't marry or have direct lineage, you still have to be working there a minimum number of years. the number is arbitrary. the barrier is not.

you cannot simply "apply" for citizenship as the mood strikes, and still live wherever else.

it's plain and simple! why can't others understand this?


Look -- your first post was telling us if we become citizens of another country we will automatically lose our US citizenship, leaving us with no protections from the US government either here or abroad. These more recent posts of yours however, are pointing out that it is often a difficult process to become a citizen of another country.

Now your more recent point, about the difficulty of the process without lineage - we all know that. And we're not disagreeing with it. We're disagreeing with your false first statement, the statement that if we become citizens of another country we won't be US citizens anymore. It's simply not true, unless you willingly renounce your U.S. citizenship. Like your sister will have to do if she chooses to become a naturalized Austrian citizen.

[waltkh5]

I have both Polish and U.S. citizenship and I have yet to have any issues, nor have I had to renounce anything.

[Thinsocks]

I'd love to be a dual citizen of US and Canada, but my lineage is not recent enough. My grandfather and grandmothers parents were born in Quebec, then the family moved across the boarder to Maine and that's when my grandparents were born. I think my mom or dad has to be born in Canada for me to get dual citizenship, right? It's amazing that some countries let you go back multiple generations in order to establish some sort of link with that country.

[edgarallanpoe]

here it is, in plain english - for an outsider trying to come into the EU:

there's a minimum of wait time, either through working or whatever of physically being in country. this is for every single country i've looked at that is a member nation of the EU.

if you don't marry or have direct lineage, you still have to be working there a minimum number of years. the number is arbitrary. the barrier is not.

you cannot simply "apply" for citizenship as the mood strikes, and still live wherever else.

it's plain and simple! why can't others understand this?

This is *completely* different than *anything* being discussed. Dude, I stand by my sentiment that you are talking out of your arse. The poster in question has legitimate ties to Italy. That is a far cry from just wanting to live there. Italy is also a different country than Austria so the situation with your sister is irrelevant to the discussion. Several posters WHO HAVE DUAL CITIZENSHIP have told you that you are wrong yet you insist on posting this nonsense.

Please...let the people who actually know what they are talking about answer the OP.

[conundrum]

Furthermore, you don't lose Constitutional protection by not being a U.S. citizen. All people in the United States, regardless of residency, are protected by the Constitution.

[StompBoxBlues]

Look -- your first post was telling us if we become citizens of another country we will automatically lose our US citizenship, leaving us with no protections from the US government either here or abroad. These more recent posts of yours however, are pointing out that it is often a difficult process to become a citizen of another country.

Now your more recent point, about the difficulty of the process without lineage - we all know that. And we're not disagreeing with it. We're disagreeing with your false first statement, the statement that if we become citizens of another country we won't be US citizens anymore. It's simply not true, unless you willingly renounce your U.S. citizenship. Like your sister will have to do if she chooses to become a naturalized Austrian citizen.

I am not totally sure what germ was saying. I don't think that applying here (or elsewhere) means you "renounce" (back when I was checking this out I found out to renounce US citizenship is a tricky thing, not well defined. The US government CAN on the basis of actions other than actually renouncing, consider a US citizen to have renounced. It isn't well defined in law and the sites I saw made a point of that, but it is not simply automatic by applying for another citizenship) your US citizenship.

Also, here in Norway it is required that you turn in your passport when you become a norwegian. THAT is the thing. I live in Norway and it is not in the EU but might as well be because of other agreements that mean we follow EU very closely...the EØS agreement for one (Norway and Lichtenstein are the only ones left in it) BUT...I live and pay taxes here, so I get access to health care, and even have an EU card that would give me health care in any EU member country.

When I researched this, and EVEN emailed questions back and forth to the norwegian government and US embassy, it was STILL not clear, certainly not as cut and dried as germ is saying.

The laws regarding this are pretty hazy, and loose as far as I can tell. It is almost like in some cases they "let" you (i.e. the US doesn't "recognize" dual citizenship, but if you have a US passport you are a US citizen...if you are travelling on another you are not. If you travel with both, it might cause problems, and if you got into some deep dodo...it would be a real question as to if EITHER country would help you out...both may then choose to see you as " a foreigner".

It's a can of worms....

[Millul]

Be reassured, no more mandatory military service in Italy.

And, you can have both Italian and US citizenship.

[wsaraceni]

thanks millul. also, im 28 and would probably be 30 by the time i did this (if i go through with it) so im not sure they'd want me anyways

[hamstrat]

I have dual citizenship (Ireland and U.S.). About 15 years now, I applied, sent the pertinent documents (grandfather born in Ireland) about $250 and got citizenship and later a passport.

I may have missed it, but I don't think anyone mentioned you can't travel on it. In other words don't think you can go to the Bahamas and hop on over to Cuba on your Irish passport. Big, big no-no. Flashing it in E.U. countries is probably not a big deal. But, unless laws have changed -not legal for a U.S. citizen to travel on other than his/her U.S. passport.

I need to add that everything I have read here by Mike Fleming is correct from my experiences. Some other things that have been posted- not so much (correct).

Slainte :drink

[daddyo]

I could apply for my German citizenship but why bother - their hockey team , meh.

[brain21]

I have no idea what your age is , but if you apply and are granted the dual citizenship , be careful that you are not conscripted for Italian military service if you decide to live there . I personally know someone that had this exact issue . There were " asking " him to do four years in the Italian Navy .

I had dual USA/Austrian citizenship. I mostly used it for the fast lines at the airports :-). When I was 18 my family went to Austria to visit. We decided to use our Austrian passports (my parents are/were dual citizens as well, IIRC) to go through the fast line. The Austrian Military literally wanted to take me directly from the airport and into the military!!!! After a while of my Dad screaming and yelling at them and threatening to renounce the Austrian citizenship and call the consulate and having them come to the airport and tie EVERYONE involved up for hours, they finally said that if I used my USA passport and got in that line that they wouldn't "draft" me in! :-)

[brain21]

still researching that part, but it does seem to be the case. hardest part seems to be finding the correct records

You might want to think about Ancestry.com - the site is run by the mormons. Not that it matters except that the mormons have the largest "ancestral" database in the world! I believe you can sign up for 30 days for free, so you never know. Might not help at all, but you might find all the records you need in 10 minutes too!

[brain21]

As for Arnold it may be that he was born Austrian and so he can keep it

or

he never officially renounced his Austrian citrizenship but his celebrity status gives him cover and the Osterreich government just looks the other way in his case now that it's out in the open.

Would be interesting to know the answer to that one.


:huh

Or we can look it up on Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_nationality_law
Dual citizenship
--------------------
Austrian law substantially restricts dual citizenship. In general, only the following categories of Austrian citizens may possess a foreign nationality:
- those acquiring another nationality at birth, such as children born to Austrian parents in another country, thus automatically gaining citizenship of that country, or those born with an Austrian and a foreign parent.
- naturalized Austrian citizens who are unable to renounce their existing nationality.
- those who acquire Austrian citizenship on the basis of being appointed a professor at an Austrian university.
- Austrian citizens who naturalize in another country with permission obtained to retain Austrian citizenship. (probably what Schwarzenegger did)

Also worth noting:
Loss of Austrian citizenship
---------------------------------
An Austrian citizen who acquires another citizenship by voluntary action automatically loses Austrian citizenship. The exception is in cases where permission to retain Austrian citizenship has been obtained in advance. In practical terms this is quite difficult to obtain, since it needs to be in the interest of the republic of Austria to grant this dual citizenship.
Austrian citizenship is also automatically lost by serving in a foreign army.

[CharAznable]

The other issue is the issue of identity.

I am Costa Rican, born and raised. When cut, I bleed sweet Tarrazu coffee. I married an American girl and got permanent residence in the US, and I will be able to apply for citizenship in the US in two years. I'm also of direct Italian descent, meaning that I could apply for Italian citizenship at any given time.

But, to me, citizenship is more than a piece of paper and the right of taking the short line at the airport.

Will I be able to stand in front of the American or Italian flags and swear allegiance to them? The question is not simple.

[bluesjuke]

Yep.
"Sworn to fun, loyal to none"?

[Millul]

CharAznable raised a very good question.

I, for one, would not be able to do such a thing: I mean, I'd really like to live somewhere else, but I'd never be able to "change" my Italian "hardware" - even though it's not so strong, for a long series of reasons.

[Mike Fleming]

that is a really good point, and I agree - I probably speak for a lot of us who got dual citizenship by descent when I say that for me, it is certainly about more than short lines at the airport.

I have a lot of relatives in ireland that I visit regularly, including some i grew up with here. Last year i went to meet a first cousin who is a farmer and lives in the same farmhouse my grandfather was born and raised in, the same house they moved back to with my mom when she was a little kid.

When me and my brother were real little we used to sit around with my mom at night and play clancy brothers records and ask her about ireland. She would tell us about horse carriages, running barefoot through cut fields, watching old estates get cut up, peat fires, stories about how her dad's family had hidden rebels before the uprising... Our cousins here grew up the same way. at parties there were always older irish people around and while all us kids were playing in the basement we would listen to the floor bounce while all the grown ups danced and sang irish songs.

I'm an american and I love this country; but ireland is part of my heritage, and for me and a lot of my cousins, part of the reason to get dual citizenship was a chance to get closer to that heritage.

[Baminated]

I think I should add a bit to the forum for those that have an interest in this. As a Federal employee you can not hold citizenship in the country outside of the US that you work in. If you are a dual national from the UK you can not work in the UK without renouncing your UK citizenship.

rob
Are you authorized to give legal advice ? Just curious

[52ftbuddha]

I do not give legal advice, I am not a lawyer. I speak from personal experience.

rob