Which OD are based on a TS circuit?

[blueprint]

Hi everybody,

I order to clarify my mind, I need your help to know which overdrives are based on a TS circuit, and the ones which are not.

This will help me (and probably other forumites) to focus on some pedals, and not always the same thing with just different enclosures... :jo

;)

[SuperReverb2]

blueprint:

LOT's of different opinions on this one, as well as LOT's of different pedals that claim to do one or the other.

TS types:

Obvioulsy any of the "reissue" Tubescreamers (Maxon, etc.)
Digitech Bad Monkey
Fulltone Fulldrive II
Addrock Old Yeller
Banzai Cold Fusion (more or less?)
Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive
PedalWorX Texas Two Step
Jacques TubeBlower
Menatone Red Snapper



:confused:

[TTrahan]

I wouldn't put the RC Boost in that list, just my opinion.

Landgraff Dynamic Overdrive (one of the positions)
GGG Standard Overdrive (same as the Landgraff)
Nobels ODS1 ?
Big Tone Music Brewery Classic OD+

[Headshot]

The Blues Driver is not a TS circuit.

Head

[DerekMinnich]

Originally posted by SuperReverb2
blueprint:

LOT's of different opinions on this one, as well as LOT's of different pedals that claim to do one or the other.

TS types:

Obvioulsy any of the "reissue" Tubescreamers (Maxon, etc.)
MJM Blues Devil
Digitech Bad Monkey
Boss Blues Driver
Fulltone Fulldrive II
Addrock Old Yeller
Banzai Cold Fusion (more or less)
Barber Tone Pump, LTD, and Direct Drive to varying degrees
G2D Cream Tone
Mentatone Red Snapper
Xotic RC Booster (?)
Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive
PedalWorX Texas Two Step
Jacques TubeBlower

Crap.......the list is HUGE...........

Some of those pedals shouldn't be in that grouping. The Menatone Red Snapper might use the JRC chip but I don't think the circuit is the same.

[SuperReverb2]

I agree with ALL the previous posts. Sometimes it's hard to even figure out what the "TS" thing is anymore with all the variations. Just trying to throw a list out there and see where it goes.

:)

Chuck

[b_rad]

Shannon Overdrive
Junkyard Screamer
Cusack Screamer

[pepeteus]

Reverend Drivetrain and Drivetrain II.

[el34power]

Originally posted by blueprint
Hi everybody,

I order to clarify my mind, I need your help to know which overdrives are based on a TS circuit, and the ones which are not.

This will help me (and probably other forumites) to focus on some pedals, and not always the same thing with just different enclosures... :jo

;)
Are you trying to find one or avoid them?
If you are looking for something like it. On a budget. I would recomend the Bad Monkey.
But i would concider the Analogman SD-1/808 silver, clip switch or
The keeley sd-1/808, burr brown, clip switch.

If you want to avoid. I only have a Keeley BD-2.

[blueprint]

Originally posted by el34power
Are you trying to find one or avoid them?
If you are looking for something like it. On a budget. I would recomend the Bad Monkey.
But i would concider the Analogman SD-1/808 silver, clip switch or
The keeley sd-1/808, burr brown, clip switch.

If you want to avoid. I only have a Keeley BD-2.

Thanks everybody for the replies!

Well, about finding one or avoid them: I already have some of them, much more than I expected actually ( both Analogman TS mods, G2D Cream tone, VL Sparkle Drive, Jacques tubeblower...). I'm going to sell a part of them to buy someting different, even if those pedals have their own characters.
I'd like to focus on pedals with a different feeling, that's why I posted this thread.
:cool:

[el34power]

OH NO! You are looking for an excuse to buy more pedals:D

Salut!

[blueprint]

Originally posted by el34power
OH NO! You are looking for an excuse to buy more pedals:D

Salut!

C'est a peut près ça, en effet....:D

[Brett Valentine]

PedalworX Texas Two Step, Tour Pro Toggle

Brett

[Swarty]

The shorter list may be which ODs are not of the TS ilk.

[gururyan]

What is the Tube Screamer circuit anyway? How can one tell if another is based on or a clone of the TS?

[PaulC]

Great! I was waiting for somebody to ask just what makes a tube screamer! Now I can get all long winded...

To me there are 4 things that make a screamer what it is. change these things a little and you'll have something that sounds like a modded screamer. Change these things alot and you can have something that sounds totally different even though it has the same parts count, and on paper looks like the same circuit.

IMHO it's all about the pre/post eq'ing, the type of clipper circuit used, and the type of user tone control. The screamer has a low end roll off that shapes the signal before it gets clipped. This is set at about 722hz, and is somewhat effected by the gain control - the roll off isn't quite as steep at low gain settings as it is when the gain is increased. This has a big effect on how the distortion sounds. clip alot of low freqs and you can fuzz out and get really muddy tones. This is a touchy area because what's enough for your bridge pickup humbucker to sound nice a full might woof out your neck pickup. This is a big tweak spot with builders.
Then you have the type of clipper circuit. The sceamer uses a non-inverting opamp gain stage with diodes within a feedback loop to limit the gain. There's several ways to set up an opamp/diode clipper distortion circuit. This is just one way used, and has it's own type of sound. The type of opamp and the type of diodes used will have a huge effect on the tone/compression & sustain/wave symmetry. This is the second big tweak spot that can make a huge change in the pedal.
Next is a high freq roll off. When you clip a signal you can get some very bright/harsh distortion overtones along with a good bit of noise. Add to that you stripped out the low end already and you can get some ice pick distortion tones. So the screamer has a hi-freq roll off after the distotion circuit at about the same as the low end - 722hz. This is the 3rd area people tweak alot. You can make the pedal darker or brighter.

So the low end roll off keeps it tight, and the hi end roll off keeps it smooth, but what happens is you've now got a pedal with a big mid bump at 722hz. This is a big part of the screamer sound - it's a mid booster. When you change the pre/post eq'ing you will change this mid effect along with the feel of the pedal. Now it doesn't sound so much like a screamer...When you see things like flat mid mods and such they're messing with this area.

Last is the tone control. The screamer actually has an active treble control that's pretty much the same type of control you'd find in a graphic EQ. This let's you boost or cut the hi end of the pedal.

That's pretty much it. There's other things in there like buffer's and such, but it's these 4 areas that to me really make the screamer what it is. It's all about the pre/post voicing, clipping and tone control. You have dead on clones, slightly tweaked clones, and things that have been changed so much they sound nothing like it even though if you just changed the part values you'd have the same thing again.

I have no problems with guys building screamer type circuits. It's a great circuit that can be made to sound a million different ways. The only thing that get's me is when you have guys that change values around, and make you think they're some type of electronic genius. They're not. They just have good ears (or not half of the time). Take credit for tuning these things - that's 90% of it right there anyway. Just don't tell me you've created a new pedal!!

Later, PaulC

[gururyan]

Wow, thanks for the in-depth answer...only I think I am even more confused now! :p

Oh well, I use a Banzai Cold Fusion and I love it...I guess that's all that matters right? ;)

[fr8_trane]

Actually the Cold Fusion is a Klon Klone (and there are a few of these as well). Of course the Klon itself is based in part on the tweaked TS circuit elements that PaulC outlined. Resistance is futile. It's Tube Screamers all the way down....

[theelectic]

The AC and RC Booster are nothing like a Tubescreamer circuit.

[utterhack]

Oh, look at THIS interesting old thread.

[dividedsky]

And the original Tube Screamer is based on an early 1950s toaster so there you go.

[David_Gerald]

The BBE Green Sreamer is a TS type pedal. And a very good one I might add. If I was going after that sound, I would use that pedal again in a hearbeat.

[John Phillips]

And the original Tube Screamer is based on an early 1950s toaster so there you go.
:)


Actually to be serious, the Tube Screamer is in fact based on the Boss OD-1/SD-1. It isn't the "TS circuit", it's the Boss SD-1 circuit. Ibanez dropped the asymetrical clipping to get around Roland's patent, and changed some component values - which as PaulC said make quite a difference to the sound - but the two are very close circuit-wise, which is why some modders can offer TS-808 and TS-9 mods on the Boss pedal, which is both much cheaper and has a more reliable switch than the Ibanez.

Why Roland/Boss don't get the credit I really don't know.

I suppose the Marshall JTM45 clones should all be called 'modified Bassman clones' too...

:)

[rewog]

That's interesting John.
The time frame between Roland producing the first OD-1, and Ibanez copying the basic design must have been tight.

From what I could find out, the OD-1 was released in 1977.
Ibanez produced the OD-850 from '74 or '75, but that's a different circuit.... and then somewhere in between '75, and the release of the Tubescreamer in '79 ? , they produced the OD-855 which IS apparently based on the TS circuit.

To confuse matters even more, reading Analogman's site, it sounds like not ALL OD-855's used the TS circuit.Does anyone know exactly when the first OD-855 was produced.

[rewog]

I did some more reading at Analogman's site, and he does say that the OD-1 was the first pedal to use what we now call the TS circuit.

[yakuza]

klon

[rewog]

klon

Nope - different circuit to a TS.

[orogeny]

klon

Oh, boy. . . heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere we goooooooooooooooooooooooo!

By the way, anyone know which Johnson pedal does the TS? (NOT kidding, by the way)

[yakuza]

Nope - different circuit to a TS.
heh, you'd think.

[rewog]

heh, you'd think.

Heh... nope. I know.
Most here know that one was dis-assembled by the in-famous Clay Jones who stated that it is NOT based in any way on a TS.

[yakuza]

Heh... nope. I know.
Most here know that one was dis-assembled by the in-famous Clay Jones who stated that it is NOT based in any way on a TS.

yeah I saw that also. I degooped mine with a help of a great pedal builder friend. But yeah, forget I ever posted anything.

[rewog]

OK - confused. :crazy
If you saw the insides of the Klon, and the explanation from Clay, why would you still say it's a TS ?

[yakuza]

OK - confused. :crazy
If you saw the insides of the Klon, and the explanation from Clay, why would you still say it's a TS ?

striking similarities... anyways don't wanna :horse

[rewog]

striking similarities... anyways don't wanna :horse

Please explain ???
I don't think you would be :horse at all.