Fender Bass VI or alternative?

[Rena Rune]

I was considering getting a Bass but unsure if I could justify a seperate Bass setup.

However a Baritone guitar or perhaps six string bass sounds interesting; it's a non traditional instrument in a sense, not quite a bass or a guitar and I like a lot of what I've heard from Baritone guitars.

I like the sound of the original Fender VI with a whammy bar - I kind of want a whammy bar on my next guitar, and it could be entertaining on this.

I have a seven string guitar, but the width of the neck kills my bad wrist. I know the Fender VIs were pretty bad for this, as well as for being hard to set up. A seven string without the seventh string would be great. Especially if I could go all the way down to E. I'd probably want the default tuning to be A to A.

What kind of amp would you need for a Baritone guitar? You'd need an amp with a decent amount of wattage capable of putting out a lot of bass, that also rolls off the highs so you can get some good tubey electric guitar tones on the higher strings. I suppose something Fender Bassman-ish would be nice, or maybe like an Ampeg SVT.

[Rena Rune]

bump

[Help!I'maRock!]

i like a baritone tuned to B or a traditional bass. a Bass VI is an unwieldy beast.

[Rena Rune]

I kinda want to cop some Robert Smith sort of tones. The switching system of a bass VI looks interesting.

[blad51]

Hey Rena,

I have a Jerry Jones baritone tuned A to A. I use both my Super Reverb and my Deluxe Reverb Reissue.

I used to own the Six String Bass Jerry Jones. It was really good but it got really low. (Kinda Ironic?) I found myself rarely using the E String. Through a guitar amp it started to lose its definition. (Through a bass amp the notes in the lower register were still crisp.)

For my purposes, which is country or Americana style, the baritone is much better for my needs.

You can here the six string bass on my MySpace page on the song "Ugly Man." http://www.myspace.com/ericleafblad

Eric

[Kestrel]

I kinda want to cop some Robert Smith sort of tones. The switching system of a bass VI looks interesting.

First off, the Fender Bass VI isn't really a baritone guitar. Baritone guitars usually have 27" scales and are tuned BEADF♯B. A good example of this is the Fender Baritone Special or the Danelectro Dead-on 67 Baritone Guitar.

The Bass VI has a 30" scale and is tuned EADGBE like a regular guitar, only an octave lower. For all intents and purposes it's a short-scale 6 string bass, although very different from a contemporary 6 string bass. Think of it as a bass guitar designed for guitarists who wish basses were more like guitars. Good look finding a Bass VI if that's what your really after. Even the discontinued reissues will set you back about a couple of grand.

Want Robert Smith tones at a fraction of the cost of a real Fender Bass VI? Look at the Schecter Hellcat VI. It's a short-scale 6 string bass, 30" scale like the Bass VI and tuned EADGBE. Through Chorus and Delay effects it can easily nail those Disintegration-era Cure tones as well some of those Peter Hook/New Order bass lines. Peter Hook also played a short-scale 6 string bass: Shergold Marathon 6. Anyway, the Hellcat VI can get you close to the Bass VI sound without the complicated switches. Incidentally, these days Robert Smith plays a custom Schecter Ultracure VI in addition to his standard Ultracure guitars.

Here's my Schecter Hellcat VI.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p202/Apollo3000/DSCN4512.jpg

[Motorhed]

I haven't played one of these but I noticed the Agile Argus today, it has the 30 inch scale. It has me curious.

http://www.rondomusic.com/argustoaskbk.html

EDIT-

There's also this one...

http://www.rondomusic.com/HARM1natashextendedep.html

[zombiwoof]

First off, the Fender Bass VI isn't really a baritone guitar. Baritone guitars usually have 27" scales and are tuned BEADF♯B. A good example of this is the Fender Baritone Special or the Danelectro Dead-on 67 Baritone Guitar.

The Bass VI has a 30" scale and is tuned EADGBE like a regular guitar, only an octave lower. For all intents and purposes it's a short-scale 6 string bass, although very different from a contemporary 6 string bass. Think of it as a bass guitar designed for guitarists who wish basses were more like guitars. Good look finding a Bass VI if that's what your really after. Even the discontinued reissues will set you back about a couple of grand.

Want Robert Smith tones at a fraction of the cost of a real Fender Bass VI? Look at the Schecter Hellcat VI. It's a short-scale 6 string bass, 30" scale like the Bass VI and tuned EADGBE. Through Chorus and Delay effects it can easily nail those Disintegration-era Cure tones as well some of those Peter Hook/New Order bass lines. Peter Hook also played a short-scale 6 string bass: Shergold Marathon 6. Anyway, the Hellcat VI can get you close to the Bass VI sound without the complicated switches. Incidentally, these days Robert Smith plays a custom Schecter Ultracure VI in addition to his standard Ultracure guitars.

Here's my Schecter Hellcat VI.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p202/Apollo3000/DSCN4512.jpg

Even though the Fender Bass VI was designed as an E to E bass, many players over the years have converted it to a baritone by putting different strings on it and tuning it to A or B on the lower string. This is nothing new.

Al

[Baxtercat]

I went the other way one time [for a surf/oldie band I was in] and set up my Jazzmaster as a baritone [by adding a fat B string, moving the other 5 over, tossing the high E]. Not as taut, but fun nonetheless. You might try that on one of yr. gtrs.?

I finally just got a J.Jones Longhorn 6 for playing Hellecasters Theme and Lonely Surfer, etc.

http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac345/Baxtercat65/Guitar%20Bob%20collection/TicTac.jpg

[94prs22]

I use a custom made bass 6 regularly on many of my recordings (often with a regular bass as well). Here's my guitar, custom made by TGPs own Josh Falcon and finished by Stike, tele shape, 30 inch scale, GFS lipsticks. I play mine through my regular amps, a couple of Hi-Mu 5.5s, a Jamison, and a Carlson Tremo-Pup. If you want a bass 6 to approximate a real bass tone, you'll definitely need a dedicated bass amp to get close, but it still will likely lack the full low end that a full scale bass produces.
http://webpages.charter.net/94prs22/bass6.JPG

[poolshark]

^ Now that's cool.

[Rena Rune]

First off, the Fender Bass VI isn't really a baritone guitar. Baritone guitars usually have 27" scales and are tuned BEADF♯B. A good example of this is the Fender Baritone Special or the Danelectro Dead-on 67 Baritone Guitar.

The Bass VI has a 30" scale and is tuned EADGBE like a regular guitar, only an octave lower. For all intents and purposes it's a short-scale 6 string bass, although very different from a contemporary 6 string bass. Think of it as a bass guitar designed for guitarists who wish basses were more like guitars. Good look finding a Bass VI if that's what your really after. Even the discontinued reissues will set you back about a couple of grand.

Want Robert Smith tones at a fraction of the cost of a real Fender Bass VI? Look at the Schecter Hellcat VI. It's a short-scale 6 string bass, 30" scale like the Bass VI and tuned EADGBE. Through Chorus and Delay effects it can easily nail those Disintegration-era Cure tones as well some of those Peter Hook/New Order bass lines. Peter Hook also played a short-scale 6 string bass: Shergold Marathon 6. Anyway, the Hellcat VI can get you close to the Bass VI sound without the complicated switches. Incidentally, these days Robert Smith plays a custom Schecter Ultracure VI in addition to his standard Ultracure guitars.

Here's my Schecter Hellcat VI.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p202/Apollo3000/DSCN4512.jpg

Thanks; very informative post.

Did Smith have his tuned A to A actually rather than E to E?

I might check out the Rondomusic ones. I hope Xaviere does one some day. I'm looking more to experiment so I don't really want to spend hundreds on this unless I know this is the route I want to go instrument wise.

[Kestrel]

Judging from footage both Robert Smith and Perry Bamonte had their Bass VI's tuned EADGBE.

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HIrYS9YSXmQ

aenP5OlQKfI

[Rena Rune]

I think I'd nearly rather have A to A maybe than E to E. Though it wouldn't be usable as a bass then.

[zombiwoof]

I think I'd nearly rather have A to A maybe than E to E. Though it wouldn't be usable as a bass then.

Then it's a baritone guitar.

Al

[mullytron]

I think A-A or B-B sounds cooler than E-E, but I hate having to look at someone else's hands and transposed in my head...

I use a homemade bari (Musicmaster bass frankenstein) and a stock Fender Subsonic, 30" and 28" scale lengths I believe. Been playing them thru a GT Soul-o 75 lately, but think 2 amps is the way to roll, one of them a bass amp. Or a guitar amp w/a 15", and dont be afraid of solid state amps. Was thinking one of those polytones with the 15 would be cool. Anyone got a good 15" gtr amp suggestions? Been coveting my dads old Evans...

Just get something, they are fun to play and open up your ear a lot.

[Brett Valentine]

I use a Bass VI (RI) tuned B to B. Spent some time with my Strat and just adjusted the string guages until it actually felt pretty much like the strat (using a G and hi C string from a 6 string bass set).

Sounds like Strat's big brother, and with the tone rolled down a bit, still gives a pretty nice impression of a Fender bass played higher. Sounds great through a Fender rig, but with too much gain, the pickups become microphonic.

With the E to E bass strings through a bass rig, it get's some pretty serious bass sounds with guitar technique, but the string spacing is pretty tiny.

Considering lifting the control plate out as is, and installing an active/passive Audere bass preamp in mine as well as a possible pickup change.

[Jahn]

Here's a quickie demo I did with a USACG partscaster Bass VI build, a bit of whammy there, ended up sounding a bit Cure-ish. Tuned A-A.

9YRs7xAgh44

[radiac]

I've got a Gretsch Baritone that is really quite nice. 30" scale, and a bigsby. It came set up as a bass VI, but switched the strings and tune B-B now. The stock mini-hb's were kinda dull so I swapped those for GFS single coils, sounds great now.

You may also want to check out the new Danelectro Dead-on '67 bari.

[audiodrome]

When Danelectro reintroduced their vintage models back in the late '90s I picked up a cheap baritone and converted it to a 6-string bass and it works great. The majority of classic hit recordings featuring a 6-string bass (Sugar Shack, Wichita Lineman, I Get Around, etc.) were played on Danelectros. The Fender VI, while a better quality instrument, was not used in the studio very much back in the day. I use my Dano in my Beach Boys tribute band and it sounds just like the record.

[zombiwoof]

When Danelectro reintroduced their vintage models back in the late '90s I picked up a cheap baritone and converted it to a 6-string bass and it works great. The majority of classic hit recordings featuring a 6-string bass (Sugar Shack, Wichita Lineman, I Get Around, etc.) were played on Danelectros. The Fender VI, while a better quality instrument, was not used in the studio very much back in the day. I use my Dano in my Beach Boys tribute band and it sounds just like the record.

Jack Bruce used a Fender VI in the early Cream days, as a bass of course!. When Bruce Springsteen did those albums with the "other" band (not the E Street Band), the second guitar player used one tuned to A on a couple of songs, I saw him in a TV concert and figured out how it was tuned from the key of the song and the chords he was using.

Al

[tkozal]

I have the old Fender Jag Bari from a few years ago. Came tuned E-e an octave below guitar. I cant remember the scale length, but I think it was 28 or just under, not 30. I am primarily a bass player, and this didnt really work with that tuning. A-a or B-b would be much better.

There were a number of players palying Bass VI's plus their use for "tic tac" bass. Roy Babbington from Soft Machine used one.

[Simto]

Here's a quickie demo I did with a USACG partscaster Bass VI build, a bit of whammy there, ended up sounding a bit Cure-ish. Tuned A-A.

9YRs7xAgh44

That sounds crazy! :D

[imonabuss]

I have a Schecter Hellcat VI, and it is well worth the price. Really nice.

[Uma Floresta]

First off, the Fender Bass VI isn't really a baritone guitar. Baritone guitars usually have 27" scales and are tuned BEADF♯B. A good example of this is the Fender Baritone Special or the Danelectro Dead-on 67 Baritone Guitar.

The Bass VI has a 30" scale and is tuned EADGBE like a regular guitar, only an octave lower. For all intents and purposes it's a short-scale 6 string bass, although very different from a contemporary 6 string bass. Think of it as a bass guitar designed for guitarists who wish basses were more like guitars. Good look finding a Bass VI if that's what your really after. Even the discontinued reissues will set you back about a couple of grand.

Want Robert Smith tones at a fraction of the cost of a real Fender Bass VI? Look at the Schecter Hellcat VI. It's a short-scale 6 string bass, 30" scale like the Bass VI and tuned EADGBE. Through Chorus and Delay effects it can easily nail those Disintegration-era Cure tones as well some of those Peter Hook/New Order bass lines. Peter Hook also played a short-scale 6 string bass: Shergold Marathon 6. Anyway, the Hellcat VI can get you close to the Bass VI sound without the complicated switches. Incidentally, these days Robert Smith plays a custom Schecter Ultracure VI in addition to his standard Ultracure guitars.

Here's my Schecter Hellcat VI.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p202/Apollo3000/DSCN4512.jpg

I know some Dano baritones have a 30" scale. I don't know if all do.

[Uma Floresta]

I went the other way one time [for a surf/oldie band I was in] and set up my Jazzmaster as a baritone [by adding a fat B string, moving the other 5 over, tossing the high E]. Not as taut, but fun nonetheless. You might try that on one of yr. gtrs.?

I finally just got a J.Jones Longhorn 6 for playing Hellecasters Theme and Lonely Surfer, etc.



Ha! I just did the exact same thing with my faux Jazzmaster. I used a heavy 12-50 flatwound set (minus the high E), and used a .60 gauge flatwound for the low B - or low A, actually. I've tuned it A to A. It's not bad. For the five regular strings it's like playing a guitar tuned down to D, which is reasonable. The low A is a little loosey goosey, but certainly doable for now. Eventually I want to get a bari conversion neck. Although I'm finding myself wishing I could go lower than A. I wonder if a 28" scale guitar would work as a Bass VI.

Anyway, I've found that tone wise it really helps to cut some bass to increase clarity. I've got a Jaguar-inspired strangle switch on mine that does the trick. Then use both pickups, then you sound pretty much like this:

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[Baxtercat]

'Man w/ Golden Arm' !! Too bitchin';
Now I want to play that one too...
That's what those things are for - digging into the low strings.

Here's one of the most played songs ever w/ one of these instruments.


Jp6j5HJ-Cok

[Baxtercat]

Oh heck, here's two more twangy riffs [simultaneous: one goes up while the other goes down]....
78KP5DmXnkA

[Rena Rune]

What I'm looking for I think is a Baritone I can string as a bass, as real 6 string basses have ****huge necks.

[Uma Floresta]

What I'm looking for I think is a Baritone I can string as a bass, as real 6 string basses have ****huge necks.

I suspect any baritone can be strung as a bass, but one with a 30" scale neck will work better.

[Jahn]

I was getting serious Bass VI withdrawal, so I'm back in the game. Hopefully by next week, a black Schecter Hellcat VI will be at the doorstep. Just doesn't make sense to have a monster modulation board without something to thrum it with!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/jahn0603/Schecter%20Hellcat%20VI/hellcat.jpg

And I found a pic of the Schecter Ultracure VI that Robert Smith uses. Cool, but I have to say I like the Hellcat's looks more!

http://www.guitartoneoverload.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/robert_smith2.jpg

[Virginia Shed]

The Fender Bass VI's used by Robert Smith, Porl Thompson, Perry Bamonte and Simon Gallup (albeit very occassionally) is used with the instruments standard tuning of EADGBE; standard guitar tuning but one octave lower. Although Perry Bamonte is no longer with the band, he did have a left-handed Bass VI-styled guitar made by Aria, which he still retains. Since the sponsorship deal with Schecter Robert now uses a custom model based on both the Ultracure guitar and the Bass VI; an instrument having it's roots in the Schecter Hellcat 6. Happy to answer any questions about The Cures' instruments.