View Full Version : New Picking technique
jzucker
02-23-2005, 07:49 PM
Here's a clip of a new picking technique I'm experimenting with. Like anything else, it's easy for some things and hard for others. It seems that the stuff I struggle with my normal technique is easy with the new technique and visa versa
I used Richard's backing and did a couple takes with the old and new techniques. The clip using the new way is not a good example of building a solo at all. It's just an experiment in coltranesque wanking...
New technique:
http://www.sheetsofsound.net/audio/mp3/richardsfunk2.mp3
Old Technique
http://www.sheetsofsound.net/audio/mp3/richardsfunk.mp3
Can you hear a difference in the attack?
The new way grips the pick with the side of the thumb and allows for virtually no pick movement. The old way uses the tip of my thumb and the pick moves which gives the feel a little more bounce but the tone is thinner and less meaty...
Thoughts?
Jaz
Ed DeGenaro
02-24-2005, 11:51 AM
The biggest difference I hear it seems that the right hand flows better on the old technique.
Nice playing Sir Burner!
jzucker
02-24-2005, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by Ed DeGenaro
The biggest difference I hear it seems that the right hand flows better on the old technique.
Nice playing Sir Burner!
Thanks Ed. I agree that the right hand flows better but certain things such as sweeping are better with the new technique and I like the sound better. It's a little harder switching directions with the new technique. Not sure if I'll switch altogether or just augment the existing technique.
On top of that, I'd really like to switch to fingerstyle...
Ed DeGenaro
02-24-2005, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by jzucker
Thanks Ed. I agree that the right hand flows better but certain things such as sweeping are better with the new technique and I like the sound better. It's a little harder switching directions with the new technique. Not sure if I'll switch altogether or just augment the existing technique.
On top of that, I'd really like to switch to fingerstyle...
Fingers do sound better, but man some of the stuff, like tremolo picking is a bitch, Sweeping is way cooler though with fingers. Especially ascending. Thumb until the top note which I use index for. There are actually a few sweep things I can pull off with fingers but really have to work to do with a pick.
jzucker
02-24-2005, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by Ed DeGenaro
Fingers do sound better, but man some of the stuff, like tremolo picking is a bitch, Sweeping is way cooler though with fingers. Especially ascending. Thumb until the top note which I use index for. There are actually a few sweep things I can pull off with fingers but really have to work to do with a pick.
Thanks for the tip Ed. I've been using thumb exclusively for downstrokes and index exclusively for upstrokes but your way sounds better. I'm alternating thumb-index-thumb-middle so far...
I'm also trying to learn to do snap/pop bass (and guitar). Did you master that stuff from the Tomo book?
Jaz
Originally posted by jzucker
Thanks Ed. I agree that the right hand flows better but certain things such as sweeping are better with the new technique and I like the sound better. It's a little harder switching directions with the new technique. Not sure if I'll switch altogether or just augment the existing technique.
On top of that, I'd really like to switch to fingerstyle...
Hi Jack,
Wow!!!
Smooth and so fast. Please don't scare Pat Martino!
I am really into finger styles too.
Do you know Tommy Kay in West Coast?
I did jam with him. He was doing by finger picking
and he was just as good as regular pick style..
Also.... Do you know Jake Shimabukuro
Ukulele player from Hawai?
I was him at NAMM Show. Just amazing!!!!!
So presice and funky too.
Tomo
Ed DeGenaro
02-25-2005, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by jzucker
Thanks for the tip Ed. I've been using thumb exclusively for downstrokes and index exclusively for upstrokes but your way sounds better. I'm alternating thumb-index-thumb-middle so far...
I'm also trying to learn to do snap/pop bass (and guitar). Did you master that stuff from the Tomo book?
Jaz
I dabble in it here and there. But am too lazy...
KRosser
02-25-2005, 06:08 PM
The "Old Technique" sounds more rhythmically confident to me. Maybe because you're more used to it, or maybe it is something based on the technique, only you'd know.
Rock Fella
02-28-2005, 07:17 AM
side of the thumb ?
i tried that and dropped the pick instantly , how do you position things ?
for smooth and consistent picking im mesin round with a .71mm pick by alice picks, they feel superb for the fast stuff
RobertMiller
03-11-2005, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by KRosser
The "Old Technique" sounds more rhythmically confident to me. Maybe because you're more used to it, or maybe it is something based on the technique, only you'd know.
That's what it sounds like to me, too. Keep pushing those boundaries Jack, but don't completely change direction cause the old technique is stellar!
AlexT
03-11-2005, 08:33 AM
Jaz,
The new technique sounds better - but I might be biased as I use a similar technique (but by far not as well :D ) and like darker sound.
I play with my fist closed and with the thumb holding firmly the the pick perpendicular between the nail and the knuckle.
AlexT
amstaf
03-13-2005, 08:03 PM
After hearing that I now have more stuff to practice, crap....I'll be up all night now.
Lucidology
09-22-2007, 07:12 AM
Such a treasure chest of info stored in the archives of TGP ...
Old way sounds far smoother and more "musical" to me. I dig the phrasing and playing in the second one more, so maybe that is swaying my opinion however.
Killer playing Jack. Love the ideas around 1:06-1:45 in the second clip. Have I heard them somewhere before? ;) I thought I had on "Bodytalk" for a minute.
VERY GOOD VERY GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
klaetos
09-22-2007, 10:32 AM
Wow. It doesn't matter how I hold the pick I would be extremely happy just being able to play that old terrible style of the first clip. :eek:
Seriously that kind of speed you guys already have Jaz, Ed, Tag and Tomo is incredible. Ok gotta ask then. For a kinda noob (switched from bass, to acoustic about 4 years ago added an electric about a year ago) what is a good path to improve playing and work toward this kind of stuff? I would like to improve my rhythm and actually get a lead skill? What has worked for you guys, besides the obvious of lots of practice, what do you/did you study to get there?
Is Tomo's stuff the place to start? Which book and DVD? Have other suggestions?
Thanks,
Chad
The new way grips the pick with the side of the thumb and allows for virtually no pick movement. The old way uses the tip of my thumb and the pick moves which gives the feel a little more bounce but the tone is thinner and less meaty...
Thoughts?
Jaz
Jack. I am wondering. Is this the way you are holding it the "new" way? Years ago, I had problems with technique, so I took a few lessons from this guy who is probably the fastest player I have ever seen. (Rhett Tyler) He told me it was mainly the way I was holding the pick, so I changed to his way. It took a few months, because it was so different, but my speed came up, and I have never had problems playing fast again. I never practice technique, and while I am not the fastest guy around, it seems I can "do" pretty much whatever I want, however fast I want.
This is what he showed me, and I THINK this may be what you are describing above, although when I am playing real fast, the pick does "float" a little. I also use the angles you show in your diagram, but it just sort of happens without thinking about it. I also use the side of the pick for a fatter tone, although it seems to slow me down a bit.
http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL438/648157/1045889/279552323.jpg
http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL438/648157/1045889/279552322.jpg
Clifford-D
09-23-2007, 02:29 PM
Hey Jack
Got to go with #2 old tech.
The articulation of the new way sounds crisper ,
I don't think it's a done deal though. They both have their place. I'm sure.
Clifford-D
09-23-2007, 02:31 PM
Wow. It doesn't matter how I hold the pick I would be extremely happy just being able to play that old terrible style of the first clip. :eek:
Seriously that kind of speed you guys already have Jaz, Ed, Tag and Tomo is incredible. Ok gotta ask then. For a kinda noob (switched from bass, to acoustic about 4 years ago added an electric about a year ago) what is a good path to improve playing and work toward this kind of stuff? I would like to improve my rhythm and actually get a lead skill? What has worked for you guys, besides the obvious of lots of practice, what do you/did you study to get there?
Is Tomo's stuff the place to start? Which book and DVD? Have other suggestions?
Thanks,
Chad
"Sheets of Sound" by Jack Zucker is a GREAT place to start if you
want to increase your speed/technique and applications. :).
yellowecho
09-23-2007, 02:44 PM
wow, i'm terrible
klaetos
09-23-2007, 04:47 PM
"Sheets of Sound" by Jack Zucker is a GREAT place to start if you
want to increase your speed/technique and applications. :).
Thanks, I'll have to check it out.
jzucker
09-23-2007, 08:12 PM
hey tag,
I'm holding the pick exactly like your picture. However, I spent the last year playing fingerstyle so my pick technique is still a work in progress. I like the control of the new technique but the sound of the old one. Plus, I keep flirting with the benson technique because it sounds the best of all of them...
hey tag,
I'm holding the pick exactly like your picture. However, I spent the last year playing fingerstyle so my pick technique is still a work in progress. I like the control of the new technique but the sound of the old one. Plus, I keep flirting with the benson technique because it sounds the best of all of them...
Very cool Jack. Maybe you just need more time with it to reach the level of your older grip? It took me a while to get back to where I was when I switched, and I had no where near your speed.
I have zero idea what the Benson technique is, although I have read about it. Can you post a picture or something of what he does? I am WAY to late in the game to go changing now though, and this works for my speeds really well anyway.
Agree fingers sound by far the best, Im sending you an email about an idea I have had. (Probably really stupid though.)
jzucker
09-23-2007, 08:36 PM
Very cool Jack. Maybe you just need more time with it to reach the level of your older grip? It took me a while to get back to where I was when I switched, and I had no where near your speed.
I have zero idea what the Benson technique is, although I have read about it. Can you post a picture or something of what he does? I am WAY to late in the game to go changing now though, and this works for my speeds really well anyway.
Agree fingers sound by far the best, Im sending you an email about an idea I have had. (Probably really stupid though.)
Benson bends his wrist counter clockwise so the bottom edge of the pick hits the strings. It gets the most beautiful sound. It's odd but I noticed that many african american guitarists play that way. Rodney Jones, Benson, Grant Green and this local player (Dan Wilson (http://www.sheetsofsound.net/danwilson.htm)) who sounds amazingly like Benson.
Dan's picture shows the benson technique.
The thing about my new "grip" is that I can play faster and have less floppyness, i have a bit of a hard time doing back and forth tremelo type lines between 2 strings...
LR1400
09-24-2007, 09:24 AM
Very cool Jack. Maybe you just need more time with it to reach the level of your older grip? It took me a while to get back to where I was when I switched, and I had no where near your speed.
I have zero idea what the Benson technique is, although I have read about it. Can you post a picture or something of what he does? I am WAY to late in the game to go changing now though, and this works for my speeds really well anyway.
Agree fingers sound by far the best, Im sending you an email about an idea I have had. (Probably really stupid though.)
This gives a decent photo.
http://www.newberkshire.com/tanglewood_jazz_festival/01_benson1.jpg
Shawn Lane picked this way as well. I do too and prefer it.
Lucidology
09-25-2007, 04:45 PM
This gives a decent photo.
http://www.newberkshire.com/tanglewood_jazz_festival/01_benson1.jpg
Shawn Lane picked this way as well. I do too and prefer it.
Really..?? Shawn came in from an angle (I like to call it from behind) like GB...
Seems like a big part of that is having one's arm well hung over
& hugging the bottom top part of the guitar ...:YinYang
vBulletin® v3.7.3, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.