Players to avoid copping licks from because they're too easily identifiable

[dkaplowitz]

This is probably total BS, but I find that some players are so distinct that they can't be learned/studied without the student sounding like the teacher. For instance, Stevie Ray Vaughan and Eric Johnson. Who wouldn't want to be influenced by these guys in some way? But every guitarist I've heard who's studied them, sounds like imitations of them. I avoid learning their stuff like the plague -- which turns out to be pretty convenient, because it's really hard to play some of that stuff! :D

[guitarua]

I think John Mayer said in an interview that he spent a lot of years trying to sound like other people, only to ultimately find out that through imitating them he ended up sounding like himself, simply because he could never actually BE that other player. He didn't live there life, have their perspective, have their anatomy....all those things factor in to it. I think the problem doesn't lie within learning or studying a player, but making it part of YOUR vocabulary. Once it's part of what you have to say, then it ceases to sound like them and comes out as you. maybe that helps.... :bonk

[Yngtchie Blacksteen]

It pains me to say this, but Yngwie Malmsteen has been copied so many times that even though I want to, I can't bring myself to play Malmsteen licks in my solos.

But while I love the real thing, most people who play Malmsteen-inspired stuff don't appeal to me unless they have a strong musical personality.

[dkaplowitz]

It pains me to say this, but Yngwie Malmsteen has been copied so many times that even though I want to, I can't bring myself to play Malmsteen licks in my solos.

But while I love the real thing, most people who play Malmsteen-inspired stuff don't appeal to me unless they have a strong musical personality.
I want to do Far Beyond the Sun with a band so bad it hurts! I forgot about him in the first post of this thread. I don't think it would be easy to "cop" his vibrato though, and I do think it'd actually help anyone a lot to try.

[Echoes]

This is probably total BS, but I find that some players are so distinct that they can't be learned/studied without the student sounding like the teacher. For instance, Stevie Ray Vaughan and Eric Johnson. Who wouldn't want to be influenced by these guys in some way? But every guitarist I've heard who's studied them, sounds like imitations of them. I avoid learning their stuff like the plague -- which turns out to be pretty convenient, because it's really hard to play some of that stuff! :D

my favorite players never copied their influences why on earth should I?

influences INFLUENCE my playing...<period> but I live and die on my own volition (sadly, mostly die...)

I think the vast majority of guitar players are 'copiers' piggybacking off the acceptance and success of their heros...they already know the playing will be accepted because their hero is popular...

in the 60's Hendrix was the guy to copy...in the 70's there were millions of 'Jimmy Page' clones and the 80's brought the fresh crop of 'Eddie Van Halenites' and SRV clones as well as 'The Edge' guys then the 90's with Yngwie and the neo-classical movement...

in the fusion world came the 70's 'Larry Carlton-clones' out of GIT by the thousands....then Holdsworth (where I had a brief phase) and Robben Ford and Scott Henderson gained great 'clone' influence...

and there are 'levels' of cloning too ...where the guy plays the same guitar, same amp, same playing and phrasing, same clothing style and hair cut....just 'fan boy' stuff that for one reason or other irritates the heck out of me..

[buddastrat]

I don't think so, I copied a lot of my faves heavily, Yngwie, EVH, Nuno, EJ, and recently more Django and SRV style. But when you mix them all together and come up with your own licks you get your own thing and it doesn't sound like anyone else, for the most part.

Yesterday with a student on Panama, we did the solo and then I did a quick solo of my own stuff based on the licks/techniques, but twisted it up with different phrasing, hybrid picking etc... Then I started adding some of the Django stuff I've been absorbing, gypsy style phrases, and got a really cool sound that got a gracious compliment from a fellow teacher. It came out really cool. One of those times I wish I had a camera rolling, because now if I try to do it and plan for it, it won't be so cool. You know that stuff just comes when it wants.

And while a lot of people copy Yngwie, very few do it right, many all do their techniques by the book and end up sounding so generic. They lack the same fire and personality in the playing. And the funny thing is, many times they end up having better technique than Yngwie yet don't sound as good.

[funkycam]

no-one.
I think rather than avoid, do the work to assimilate licks into your style.
& don't draw from any 1 player or any 1 style.
learning someone's lick is just the first step in the process.

[GovernorSilver]

The only one whose licks I avoid copping is Carlos Santana, because I don't want to be sued by him.

[bbarnard]

Mark Knopfler

[vhollund]

Copy as many of the Guitarists you like
In the end the sum of it will be you.

[dkaplowitz]

The only one whose licks I avoid copping is Carlos Santana, because I don't want to be sued by him.
Does he sue people for using his licks?

[GovernorSilver]

Does he sue people for using his licks?

He sued Miller Brewing Co. for "copying his unique style" several years back. Example article:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1990-10-17/news/9010170580_1_carlos-santana-miller-brewing-musician

PDF of his complaint is here: http://www.phillaw.com/selected-cases-intellectual-property-law.html

[Tomo]

This is probably total BS, but I find that some players are so distinct that they can't be learned/studied without the student sounding like the teacher. For instance, Stevie Ray Vaughan and Eric Johnson. Who wouldn't want to be influenced by these guys in some way? But every guitarist I've heard who's studied them, sounds like imitations of them. I avoid learning their stuff like the plague -- which turns out to be pretty convenient, because it's really hard to play some of that stuff! :D

Everyone should imitate player (you respect/love) and not ony imitate notes/pitch/rhythm. Learn how to control that mood, tone..etc. Without copying anybody is very difficult to be better guitar player. Unless you are very talented (music was already inside of you deep enough).

Tomo

[chinaski]

malcolm young

[Jazz2Punk]

I think the vast majority of guitar players are 'copiers' piggybacking off the acceptance and success of their heros...they already know the playing will be accepted because their hero is popular...


I disagree.

I think the vast majority of us are trying hard to find our own voices. Part of that journey is absorbing the influences of those who inspire you.

Most of us will end up sounding a bit like the sum of our influences while a handful of players will manage to carve out their own unique identity.

The truth is that their are very few unique voices in music which is why the same legendary players are discussed over and over and over.

[robelinda2]

I just learn what I think sounds good, I dont couldnt care less if its a popular way of playing or not, I cant believe anyone would learn something just because its accepted.

[rotren]

Terje rypdal

[russ6100]

my favorite players never copied their influences why on earth should I?


I'm curious - who are some of these players?

[Echoes]

I'm curious - who are some of these players?


I'll give their names....you will say they copied their heros, I will disagree (to the degree I am talking about) and we would waste both of our time.

there's a huge difference between copying a guitarist and being influenced by other guitarists.

My post was specifically aimed at CLONES and not those (like the vast majority HERE at TGP) that are influenced by great guitar players...

HINT: the vast majority of guitar players are NOT members here at TGP.

[Echoes]

I disagree.

I think the vast majority of us are trying hard to find our own voices. Part of that journey is absorbing the influences of those who inspire you.

Most of us will end up sounding a bit like the sum of our influences while a handful of players will manage to carve out their own unique identity.

The truth is that their are very few unique voices in music which is why the same legendary players are discussed over and over and over.


yes, most HERE at TGP are doing just that....but, TGP does NOT represent the majority of guitar players on planet earth...most won't care to even pursue the guitar enough to come here and discuss it at this length.

[SyKrash]

I tried for years to sound like alot of different players. I could never get it to sound right, I always still sounded like me.

I think it honestly depends on the player. I've heard guys who are absolute clones of someone, and there are plenty of those, like me who could never get it 100% as hard as they would try.

For example, I would LOVE to play like Eric Johnson, but for whatever reason no amount of licks, solos and transcriptions can make me sound/like play like him.

[russ6100]

It's interesting to hear Jimmy Raney's take on imitation, starting around 1:30:

JZy421SJSV8&feature=related

[RobRowland]

On Total Electric Guitar Eric Johnson specifically says to try to copy the licks of your influences as exactly as you can.

He then plays a Clapton lick which sounds exactly like, well Eric Johnson!

I would think it would only become an issue if you only ever copied one player.

[chinaski]

eddie van halen used to play note for note clapton almost obsessively.i think it's safe to say that he ended up sounding like himself.

[boldaslove1977]

there is an SRV lick that somehow seems to find it's way into every solo i play... even when i try to avoid it... my hands still want to go there.

however... nobody has ever mistaken me for SRV.

[buddastrat]

eddie van halen used to play note for note clapton almost obsessively.i think it's safe to say that he ended up sounding like himself.


Yeah I heard a clip of him doing Crossroads solo verbatim per request of the interviewer. This was in the 80's, when he had his style well established. You would think it was Clapton, it was spot on. Did not sound at all like EVH.

this all boils down to one thing....creativity or lack of. and for some, many, many players are content to play like their faves, and that's fine too. If it brings enjoyment, it's all good.

[GovernorSilver]

Allan Holdsworth has acknowledged Eric Clapton as an influence. He demonstrated some Clapton licks while fooling around during a soundcheck at a show in VA. I've also heard recordings of him doing similar hijinks at another soundcheck.

[RockManDan]

there's nothign wrong with studying the minutiea of a given player. if they're great, then it will only add to your musical vocabulary. the main thing for me is try to absorb a nice variety. An SRV clone sounds way different than an EVH clone, which is again totally different from and Eric Johnson CLone. so if you are soaking up licks and techniques and tones from all 3 of those, and morphing them into your own style, you wont sound like just a ripoff. Even within genres theres lots of variation. Satriani sounds different than EVH even though they use a lot of similar techniques. SRV is very different from Clapton, Angus Young is different from Billy Gibbons. Listen to and try to cop as many different great players as you can and eventually they will all gel inside your brain into your own personal style, to the point that when you play, you wont say 'oh ill do an SRV lick here' or 'this song could use an eric johnson kind of clean tone' youll just go for what notes and sounds work best for the song at hand, because in the process of learning from those players youll have built up your own vocabulary of tonal possibilities.

[Tomo]

Terje rypdal

What a player!

Tomo

[marcher5877]

"you got to feel it to steal it!"

-have no idea where that quote is from, but its true!

[heavypick]

I've purposely avoided learning those Scofield diminished licks because they're so distinct. Same for the "Pat Metheny lick" or that Mike Stern chord tremolo thing.

[brothertupelo]

i wouldn't know. most of what i play is probably some variation of a muddy waters lick.

[CharAznable]

Frippisms are so distinctively Frippian that it's better to avoid them unless you want your listener to get the reference.

[Long2Play]

For instance, Stevie Ray Vaughan and Eric Johnson.

Funny I hear their influences in how they play too...

I think you need a broad range of influences to help you get to your own voice. Just like they way you speak is highly influenced from your parents, teachers, culture and your buddy's (who helped the more colorful parts of it!).

:)