es-335 pickups

[thebrownguitar]

I've got an early 80's es-335 with its original pickups. They sound boomy and muddy to me. Can anyone suggest a good replacement? I'm interested in a clean sound, with some texture - lower output is okay, and probably better. My favorite sound is my P-90 ES-175. I know there are humbucker-sized P-90's, but I thought I keep some variety in the line up. Does anyone know anything about the stock pickups Gibson was using in the early 80's? It'd be nice to have perspective on what's in there, so I can contrast...

Thanks,
matt

[Flavum]

Before you yank those pickups out, check to see if they're "Shaw" pickups (you can a search on the Les Paul Forum for lots of info on identifying them). If they are in fact Shaws, I'd be surprised that you're not getting a great sound from them. They're held in very high regard by many players.

Jim Rolph does make excellent pickups (my first choice for PAF-style replacments), but don't throw those old ones out. They may actually be worth something.

[righthandman]

I've got an '82 335, I've always loved the way it played but thought the pickups sounded unusually flat and muddy. I put in a set of Duncan 59's, now it sounds great, very much improved.

[Laroosco!]

Duncan 59's solved the problem in my Dot

[alderbody]

WCR's with RS guitarworks pot upgrades.

http://www.crcoils.com/New_PIckups/new_pickups.html#note

http://www.rsguitarworks.com/


try them and you will understand...

:) :) :)

[Scott Cioe]

I have an '03 ES-335 which comes stock with Gibson '57 Classics. I love the sound. In fact, every hollow/semi-hollowbody guitar I've heard with the classics have sounded great.

[GuitarG]

A Seth Lover sounds great in the neck position of a 335.

[ringmod]

Originally posted by GuitarG
A Seth Lover sounds great in the neck position of a 335.

+1. I am really digging the Seth Lovers in my Hamer Monaco Superpro right now.

[jreardon]

Originally posted by Scott Cioe
I have an '03 ES-335 which comes stock with Gibson '57 Classics. I love the sound. In fact, every hollow/semi-hollowbody guitar I've heard with the classics have sounded great.

57's in my 2000 model as well. Great sound.

[Marty s Horne]

Another fan of Gibson's 57 Classics

[thebrownguitar]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

I never had any idea about the Shaw thing - it looks like that may be what I have (ink stamped number over the engraved pat # - the guitar's an 83 made in Nashville). Do they actually sell for something? As much as some folks over on the Les Paul Forum seem to like them, I'm not that crazy about them. I'm probably looking for something different than they are.

For the folks that suggested the Gibson 57's, Seth Lovers (Seymour Duncan?), or 59's, what do you like about them - especially in comparison to the others you've tried?

Thanks, I appreciate the input.

m

[Marty s Horne]

Matt,
I've had 3 Custom Shop semi-hollow Gibsons with 57 Classics. I like them because in all 3 guitars, the tone was warm, fat, and balanced. No muddiness, no midrange scoop or spike, and some nice chime in the high end; a very smooth sounding pickup.

[Greggy]

Originally posted by Marty s Horne
Matt,
I've had 3 Custom Shop semi-hollow Gibsons with 57 Classics. I like them because in all 3 guitars, the tone was warm, fat, and balanced. No muddiness, no midrange scoop or spike, and some nice chime in the high end; a very smooth sounding pickup.

Marty,

I'm looking to replace the stock pups in my 335 copy. Leaning towards Classsic 57s. Do you recommend the Classic Plus for the bridge? Is that what you use? Apparently wound hotter than the regular Classic 57.

[peacock72]

I've had '57 classics and a SD '59 and thought they were too muddy in the neck position. I'm waiting on a couple of sets of pickups from www.highorderpickups.com The alnico III is supposed to be a great, open sounding neck pickup with no hint of mud, but less compressed than a alnico II at higher volumes. Shoot Jeff an e-mail describing what you're looking for.

[jreardon]

I don't find the 57's too muddy at all, in fact quite the opposite. The 490/498 combination in my Les Paul were muddy, but not the 57's

[Scott Cioe]

Originally posted by Marty s Horne
Matt,
I've had 3 Custom Shop semi-hollow Gibsons with 57 Classics. I like them because in all 3 guitars, the tone was warm, fat, and balanced. No muddiness, no midrange scoop or spike, and some nice chime in the high end; a very smooth sounding pickup.

I agree. The classics seem to compliment the semi-hollow-body tone as well as the thin Mahagony body tone of SG's and the like.

IMO you can't beat them in either style above, although, I prefer the brigter tone of a Burstbucker in LPs.

[ringmod]

What I like about the Seth Lovers is that they are softer sounding and feeling. They are low-powered and have a compressed sound... I also like the fact that they aren't wax-potted, they sound more open, like they are breathing. The high end is sparkley and the mids are killer. I really like the Alnico II magnets. Burstbuckers also have Alnico II magnets...

[thebrownguitar]

"...they sound more open, like they are breathing. The high end is sparkley and the mids are killer."

That sounds like just what I'm looking for. Have you compared those the the '59's?

Thanks.

m

[Marty s Horne]

Greg,
All 3 of my guitars had 57 Classics in both positions so I can't comment on the 57 Classic +.

[Ayan]

Originally posted by jreardon
I don't find the 57's too muddy at all, in fact quite the opposite. The 490/498 combination in my Les Paul were muddy, but not the 57's

The thing is that Classic 57s are all over the map. In the early days, they had a lower DC resistance (the set that came out of my 93 335 measured 7.4K) and sounded fine for the neck position, but very thin and weak for the bridge position. I replaced mine with a set of Fralins, 7.5K neck and 8.5K bridge. The bridge pickup sounded great, kind of bright in a good "PAF way." The neck pickup was too dark and compressed sounding, but I lived with it.

Now, Classic 57s seem to be around 8.0K or higher. A friend of mine gave me the set that came out of his late 90s 335, and it measured around 8.4K. I guess Gibson decided to compromse a little here, and the end result is a pickups that sound OK in both neck and bridge positions, but excel in neither.

Anyway, eventually I did rewire the guitar by putting in 500K audio volume pots (instead of the stock 300K linear pots). That opened up the sound a lot, but the neck Fralin was still too dark. I experimented a lot and this is what I ended up with: a Classic 57 in the neck, but one that I underwound myself. I also tried a Seth Lover, which I wax potted, and the sound was pretty much the same.

So, having come full circle on the 335 pickup thing, this is what I would suggest:

1. Consider replacing the volume pots on the 335 with 500K audio ones, you may like the sound of these better.

2. Get a low value Classic 57, or a Lover (you don't have to pot it if you can live with the "knocking" sound they make whe you tap on them), or get some of the more expensive PAF types... I would recommend you think twice before putting a Fralin in the neck, let alone a Duncan 59 or Jazz pickups (which I think sound generic, maybe due to the Alnico V Duncan uses in them? -- sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone).

3. You have a number of options for the bridge pickup. Seth Lovers are a bit too thin sounding in the bridge, for my taste. Some 57s sound pretty good, and the Duncan 59s sound good too here. Of course, you can also go the boutique route which will set you back a lot of money, but it may be worthwhile to you. Or, you can go with a more modern sounding pickup for the bridge to get a fatter sound.

Cheers,

Gil

[ringmod]

I haven't played a Duncan '59 humbucker, but I've had '57 classics, PRS McCartys, and tried the Fralin Humbuckers too. I really dig the Seth Lovers and the Fralins the best. You might want to consider the "unpotted" Duncan '59s at http://www.specialtyguitars.com supposedly they are like a combination of the Seth Lovers and the '59.:dude

[Bloomfield fan]

Lollar Imperial humbuckers.

[althrax]

I think you should try Wolfetone Legends, I believe they are based on the old Gibson PAF's, and so the story goes that the old Gibson PAF's that sounded really good always had mis-matched coils in them. Wolfe or Scott Lerner could tell you more about them.

[jakins]

id like to bump this topic...ive heard the potted vs. unpotted chatter...not sure what the differences are: does that have to do with more or less feedback? I LOVE the tone of my 335 overall, but would like to have a tad more clarity in the neck p'up...im also wondering it the stock pups in my custom shop 63 reissue are more prone to feedback than some other good pickup alternatives. I know its a hollow body, but id like to control some of the feedback when playing my cranked AC30 :) Any valuable suggestions out there?

[brad347]

Dude...

If your 335 is from the early 80s, you haven't really heard your pickups because of the pots in there.

I pulled everything out of my ES-347 and noticed that the volume pots measured 253k each, and the tone pots measured a pathetic 93k!

So in other words, 300k volume pots and 100k tone pots that were below spec.

NO WONDER the guitar sounded like there was always a blanket over the amp.

This is basically the equivalent of playing with the volume 1/4 of the way down and the tone 1/2 way down.

New pickups are probably in order, yes (I ordered Wolfetone Dr. V's) but DO NOT overlook the pots. You could probably get by, if low on cash, with just replacing those and still notice a substantial difference.

[keith_t4e]

In the early 80s Gibson actually put Dirty Fingers in some 335s. Not a good fit at all. what were they thinking. Remember Gibson used to really suck at pickup making. It wasn't until the classic 57s and burstbukers that they really started getting beter. The dirty fingers sounded great in my solid body 335.

[brad347]

In the early 80s Gibson actually put Dirty Fingers in some 335s. Not a good fit at all. what were they thinking. Remember Gibson used to really suck at pickup making. It wasn't until the classic 57s and burstbukers that they really started getting beter. The dirty fingers sounded great in my solid body 335.

Yeah. Those ones that said "patent applied for" on the bottom really sucked. :rotflmao

[dkaplowitz]

Informative thread, thanks for the input!

Dave

[Seegs]

Dude...

If your 335 is from the early 80s, you haven't really heard your pickups because of the pots in there.

I pulled everything out of my ES-347 and noticed that the volume pots measured 253k each, and the tone pots measured a pathetic 93k!

So in other words, 300k volume pots and 100k tone pots that were below spec.

NO WONDER the guitar sounded like there was always a blanket over the amp.

This is basically the equivalent of playing with the volume 1/4 of the way down and the tone 1/2 way down.

New pickups are probably in order, yes (I ordered Wolfetone Dr. V's) but DO NOT overlook the pots. You could probably get by, if low on cash, with just replacing those and still notice a substantial difference.

I have an 87 that I got on the cheap...it had a muddy neck pup and when I took out the pots my tone controls measured 88k and my volumn pots were about 290K...I replaced them all with a Dr. Vintage early spec. control kit with all the pots measuring around 550K and a set of the Wolfetone Dr. Vintage pups...I also went and redid all the hardware with a Faber ABR1 bridge with brass saddles that retrofit to my Nashville bridge with no mods needed... I also got the locking studs w/spacers and a light weight alu. tailpiece...the difference is huge and I can't put the guitar down now...it's become my #1...

Chow,
Seegs

[Brien]

I just replaced my 57 classics with Darkbursts (alnico 5) and an RS kit. I'm not happy with the change. The guitar is too bright, not round and warm. Maybe it's the pots, maybe the pups, I'm still thinking about what I'm going to do, but I'm not leaving those pups in there. My 2 cents.

[Dylan61]

I just replaced my 57 classics with Darkbursts (alnico 5) and an RS kit. I'm not happy with the change. The guitar is too bright, not round and warm. Maybe it's the pots, maybe the pups, I'm still thinking about what I'm going to do, but I'm not leaving those pups in there. My 2 cents.

That make me change my mind, gess I am going to try Seth Lovers..thanks for letting us know!

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