Did anyone like that early Grand Funk Railroad Guitar tone ? [Archive]

Dr. Tweedbucket

05-07-2010, 08:35 AM

:confused:

Call me sick :red .... but I thought it was GREAT! That tone defined the word 'SICK'! It was very unique and I don't think anyone ever captured the raw, gritty, down and dirty magic of that Messenger aluminum guitar through the Germanium fuzz into those West amps! :love: Listen to the Double Black Live album if you want to get a feel for what I'm talking about! :drink

http://i42.tinypic.com/5ciqyt.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/x542sy.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/s3o8hy.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/1267nkg.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/iqlod2.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/1zn4qcn.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/rm4o0m.gif

jtm622

05-07-2010, 08:41 AM

I thought Farner used "Micro-Frets" guitars...
What's that guitar in the photo?

Dr. Tweedbucket

05-07-2010, 08:42 AM

I thought Farner used "Micro-Frets" guitars...
What's that guitar in the photo?

That's his Messenger. He used that through Closer to Home I believe.

Here are some of the rest >

http://i40.tinypic.com/2cwpgkj.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/2hydqs.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/1gjfa8.jpg

Black Live Album cover >

http://i43.tinypic.com/33m30c3.jpg

^ THAT is what Rock and Roll was all about!

CAJUN

05-07-2010, 08:48 AM

The double live album (black) was my favorite, the guitar tone was killer on that one.

rah3

05-07-2010, 08:54 AM

Wow! Great seeing the Farner gear. Both the bass and guitar tones were very different than other bands at the time.

I only saw them once. Freddie King was the opener.."Up all night with Freddie King, gotta tell you poker's his thing".

-RAH3

RickC

05-07-2010, 08:55 AM

Love those Farner gear pics; thanks!

SAGMB

:beer

GCDEF

05-07-2010, 09:01 AM

Love his playing. Never liked his tone.

dohootowl

05-07-2010, 09:07 AM

Dr. Tweedbucket

05-07-2010, 09:14 AM

I liked his tone, for sure. It was on the thin side, but I thought it worked perfectly against Mel's bass and Don's drums. Could have been meatier when Craig became a member but overall, still enjoyed them a great deal.

Well, you have to figure with Mel's fuzz bass, the guitar had to be on the bright side to be heard, but too, the tone had some balls if you listen to live tracks like Paranoid when the guitar cleans up, or Heartbreaker. Too, the guitar sounds great on the studio album, Closer to Home ..... there is nothing else like it! :JAM

JDW3

05-07-2010, 09:17 AM

Marks Messenger had the heathkit fuzz built in to the guitar. He flipped it on with a switch.

Dr. Tweedbucket

05-07-2010, 09:19 AM

Marks Messenger had the heathkit fuzz built in to the guitar. He flipped it on with a switch.

That's cool! Only a guy from Flint would know that! :aok

JDW3

05-07-2010, 09:19 AM

Well, you have to figure with Mel's fuzz bass, the guitar had to be on the bright side to be heard, but too, the tone had some balls if you listen to live tracks like Paranoid when the guitar cleans up, or Heartbreaker. Too, the guitar sounds great on the studio album, Closer to Home ..... there is nothing else like it! :JAM

How about that wah tone on the live Paranoid? Heavy!

Scott Auld

05-07-2010, 09:21 AM

Post some youtube clips or something, man.

Pete Faragher

05-07-2010, 09:55 AM

While I LOVED "Closer to Home" .....(best GFR album IMHO), I never liked his guitar sound. Even when I was 15 years old and in a suburban basement with the black lights on listening to "Inside Looking Out". I thought " too bad this guy's sound is so shitty" BUT......I have to say, you knew it immediately. No one sounded like Mark Farner. That's a good thing.

Mark Ray

05-07-2010, 10:09 AM

I liked it without realizing what guitar tone was at first. I was a young pup, and the raw energy grabbed me in a big way. Years later, sure I can sit around a critique this tone or that tone, but every person has to one degree or another "their tone," regardless of the gear. One of my top 3 fave groups of all time!

Mark

reddgeetarzan

05-07-2010, 10:14 AM

Cool!!!

I used to own a West Grande halfstack- the 4x12 cab EASILY weighed around 150lbs. Unfreakin'-believably LOUD too. My first REAL amplifier.

I let a bass player use it and he blew the transformer when he leaned over on an ice machine at a bar we used to play at- evidently the ice machine wasn't grounded- it about killed the poor guy- I figured he suffered enough, so I didn't make him fix it!!!

Mark Ray

05-07-2010, 11:06 AM

If memory serves me correctly, Farner actually worked at West amplifiers for a time. When we saw GFR on the reunion tour in '98, his "real" rig was off to the side of the stage. Yep, his speakers were one of his original West cabs w/15"s! (Onstage sat 2 Peavey 5150 stacks that weren't even turned on-Peavey was a tour sponsor)

Mark

Pete Cage

05-07-2010, 11:06 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x6chChxzV0

Dr. Tweedbucket

05-07-2010, 11:48 AM

Post some youtube clips or something, man.

You tube clips huh? Suuuure we can do You tube clips!

Yeah, I liked his playing too, it's stuff that sounds good and isn't too hard to do. Mark has a great set of pipes too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk0UUZ52C24&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x6chChxzV0

sinner

05-07-2010, 12:29 PM

I don't really remember the "tone" just all that hair, no shirt guy running from one end of the stage to the other for like 2 1/2 hours of pure loud fun!

This from a distant memory back in 1970 seeing Grand Funk Railroad live at the Los Angeles Olympic boxing auditorium, or was it the Forum? Quicksilver Messenger and Eric Mercury were the supporting acts.

JDW3

05-07-2010, 01:16 PM

I saw Mark solo around 2001, at The Emerald Ballroom in Mt. Clemens, MI. He was using a Mesa Dual Rect or some similar Mesa head. He had the exact same lead tone as the 1st live album! Go figure...

And, he was on it. Great vocals and showmanship.

ABKB

05-07-2010, 02:32 PM

Always loved GFR. great rhythm section, maybe one of the most underrated ever! 2 GREAT singers and some great songs. Mark's tone was clean or fuzz. Got a little more overdrive starting on the American band album. I really liked his clean tone and in that band he made it work quite well! His fuzz tone, always thought it was ok. Was he the worlds greatest guitarists? No, but he put on a GREAT show and wrote and sang great songs. He didnt need to be the greatest guitarist in the world for that band to make it all work. Love the black live album and Closer To Home and even American Band and Caught In the Act. All great stuff!

GerryJ

05-07-2010, 02:57 PM

Like Mountain and Cream and early Zep before the drugs, a great band tone.

riff1006

05-07-2010, 04:59 PM

That's his Messenger. He used that through Closer to Home I believe.

Here are some of the rest >

http://i40.tinypic.com/2cwpgkj.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/2hydqs.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/1gjfa8.jpg

Black Live Album cover >

http://i43.tinypic.com/33m30c3.jpg

^ THAT is what Rock and Roll was all about!

That's the first album I ever bought with my own money....I was 12. I always wondered what that guitar was!

riff1006

05-07-2010, 05:01 PM

Tom Gross

05-07-2010, 05:04 PM

This is the stuff I was into

Into The Sun, baby!

xsFdzHQPfdc

V-Type

05-07-2010, 06:57 PM

One of those West Avalon 100 watt combo converted monsters is for sale cheap at Elderly Instruments in Mich.
Crazy loud amp with great tone.
There are a few available here in the area as of late btw.

aeolian

05-07-2010, 08:32 PM

I was totally into Grand Funk back in '70. Never really thought that much about Mark's tone. It was huge and rock and roll. Given that I was playing Sear's gear and using a transistor tape recorder for a fuzz box, tone snobbery wasn't part of my outlook.

When I finally saw them in concert I had no idea what kind of guitar that was. Thought it was just some old beat up thing that he started out with. Made me feel better about my junk.

Sub City

05-07-2010, 08:55 PM

lord preset

05-07-2010, 09:01 PM

This is joke right? When I was a kid GFR made me cringe. They still do.

So yes, in response to the OP's challenge - yes, you are crazy. :crazyguy

It's Time!

05-07-2010, 10:44 PM

I have been a huge Grand Funk Railroad fan all the way back to the 60's and I've always liked Mark's tone.

StJimmy

05-07-2010, 11:18 PM

I was also into GFR as a young teenager. His tone was unorthodox in that it didn't sound like most of the other rock bands of the time. Very unique. The main thing is that it worked IMO. It was part of the sound and GFR wouldn't have sounded as unique if he'd had a creamy Les Paulish sound or round Stratty sound.

What was cool is that he kept that unique sound as he gravitated from the Messenger, the SG, through the Micro Frets, Velenos, even the Gibson L-5S he played on the 74-75 tour. Wasn't quite as unique sounding as the Messenger, but the tone stayed out of the norm. I think those 15s had a lot to do with it. What rock guitar player, (besides the smooth guys like Chet Atkins or Wes Montgomery) played through 15s?!!!

tonedaddy

05-08-2010, 01:12 AM

Remember the inside of the Live Album full of press clippings of music critics bashing GFR, mirrored by clippings telling of huge sold out concert halls? I was only 13 at the time that album came out, but I'd read those clippings every time I put on the album and laugh.

In my town, you could be at anyone's house, crank up a stereo playing "Footstompin' Music" with that Hammond screaming and every girl in the room would jump up and start dancing. Ahhh, life was simple and good.

I always though Farner's tone fit the music. It didn't sound like other players, but it most always sounded right for the song. And that's good enough for me.

ProToneThinline

05-08-2010, 04:15 AM

Was he the worlds greatest guitarists? No, but he put on a GREAT show and wrote and sang great songs. He didnt need to be the greatest guitarist in the world for that band to make it all work.

Mark, might not be the greatest player, but for a young kid learning to play in the late 60's/early 70's, his music was very accessable. You could actually learn those songs and play them convincingly. I think the first guitar solo I learned note-for-note was "Closer To Home".

Most of my high school garage band's set list was GFR tunes. Mark was a huge influence on me. They really knew how to bring the music to the people.

Eric Thomas

05-08-2010, 05:22 AM

I always loved early GFR. The Red album and E Pluribus Funk were two of my favorite albums as a kid. And of course the first live album. I never gave Mark's tone a second thought back then and I still don't think about it today when I listen to GFR. It's raw, unique, and there's lots of emotion/passion coming from that band regardless of the level of musicianship. And isn't hearing the passion/soul of the player what ultimately makes music memorable?

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Twangmaster

05-08-2010, 06:09 AM

Farner and Grand Funk are reason that I still play. The biggest influence on me ever. I hadn't seen a Heathkit Fuzz since I was 14! I'd love to find one again. As I remember, it wasn't very 'usable' since the volume dropped about 30% whenever you hit the switch.

I remember something about Farner using Acoustic amps too... the cabinets with that Gawd awful Horn right at ear level.

Their first 3 albums are still on the ipod! Thanks for the 'reminder'! Great pics!

Black Arts Mark

05-08-2010, 02:36 PM

I really dig the fuzztone on "The Red Album". I guess I'll build that Heathkit above to see how that sounds. Can't say I've heard much more that that one record, but it's pretty damn good IMO.

Twangmaster

05-08-2010, 03:46 PM

I really dig the fuzztone on "The Red Album". I guess I'll build that Heathkit above to see how that sounds. Can't say I've heard much more that that one record, but it's pretty damn good IMO.

don't forget to find the 'cast iron' pedal enclosure that came with the original kit. I think you could park a pickup on top of one and not hurt it.