I quit eating meat

[willhutch]

3 weeks ago I decided to cut meat out of my diet and severely limit intake of dairy and eggs. The primary motivation for doing so is improving and maintaining my health. I am not calling myself a vegetarian, as I plan to indulge in meat dishes on occasion.

After 3 weeks, I thought I'd share my experiences to date:

1) Little to no inconvenience. Being very into Chinese cuisine, cutting meat out of meals has been easy. I enjoy cooking, so I enjoy the creative challenge of revamping my meals. This makes it easier for me than for most people, I suspect.
2) Weight loss. I've lost almost 5 lbs in 3 weeks. I was stuck at 184 for a full year even with a very heavy workout schedule. I'm down to the weight I was at right after high school.
3) I miss the satisfaction I experienced with animal fat in my diet. I find that I am hungry shortly after eating. The upside is that my low calorie foodstuffs allow me to eat a greater volume of food. So I can chow more, and more often, and still have lower calorie intake than before.
4) I miss the taste of a nice pork chop or chicken wing.
5) I feel clean inside. This is probably just imaginary, but I certainly feel clean and healthy.
6) My energy level is great for cardio activities, but I do not feel as well-feuled for strength training. I'm not sure if this has to do with the general calorie deficit I am in now or the specific lack of animal protien and fat in my diet.

I believe I am getting the adequate nutrients. I am getting my protien from legumes (particularly soy). I am careful to mix foods to assure I am getting complete protiens

I am happy with my diet choice. I am interested to hear the experiences of others who have stopped eating meat.

[2 Loud 4 You]

While not for me, I had a former friend go Vegan and I must admit he really got lean. He started training Krav Maga and he cut a lot of weight and looked good. I will say his gf at the time said he became more moody though and I have seen reports of high soy intake changing the estrogen levels in men and creating mood swings but there's probably a study that contradicts it. Overall it seemed to work well for him but we had a falling out and I haven't seen him in years.

[Blue Fin]

I quit eating red meat in 1988 then quit chicken a few years ago. You should try some of the different soy based meat substitutes...of course they don't replace the taste of meat but some of them are pretty good and can be used in some recepies.

[germs]

back when i was a starving musician, i had to quit eating meat b/c of the cost.

i wasn't on the healthiest of diets sans meat anyway, but i found that the first few weeks were pretty rough...could have been the starvation or the malnutrition, though.

[travisvwright]

3 weeks ago I decided to cut meat out of my diet and severely limit intake of dairy and eggs. The primary motivation for doing so is improving and maintaining my health. I am not calling myself a vegetarian, as I plan to indulge in meat dishes on occasion.

After 3 weeks, I thought I'd share my experiences to date:

1) Little to no inconvenience. Being very into Chinese cuisine, cutting meat out of meals has been easy. I enjoy cooking, so I enjoy the creative challenge of revamping my meals. This makes it easier for me than for most people, I suspect.
2) Weight loss. I've lost almost 5 lbs in 3 weeks. I was stuck at 184 for a full year even with a very heavy workout schedule. I'm down to the weight I was at right after high school.
3) I miss the satisfaction I experienced with animal fat in my diet. I find that I am hungry shortly after eating. The upside is that my low calorie foodstuffs allow me to eat a greater volume of food. So I can chow more, and more often, and still have lower calorie intake than before.
4) I miss the taste of a nice pork chop or chicken wing.
5) I feel clean inside. This is probably just imaginary, but I certainly feel clean and healthy.
6) My energy level is great for cardio activities, but I do not feel as well-feuled for strength training. I'm not sure if this has to do with the general calorie deficit I am in now or the specific lack of animal protien and fat in my diet.

I believe I am getting the adequate nutrients. I am getting my protien from legumes (particularly soy). I am careful to mix foods to assure I am getting complete protiens

I am happy with my diet choice. I am interested to hear the experiences of others who have stopped eating meat. This may be the most honest and blanaced "I quit meat" discussion I've ever seen. I am honestly shocked.

[gdomeier]

This may be the most honest and blanaced "I quit meat" discussion I've ever seen. I am honestly shocked.


My thoughts exactly!

[BallisticGuitars]

Good luck to you. My wife tried to get me to stop eating meat for about 6 months. I made it 3 months and then went on a red meat binge. Our compromise was to seek out more organic foods, including meats, and just eat high quality meat less frequently. Even that is tough for me, so I applaud anyone who can stick to a no-meat diet for any length of time.

[MightyGuru]

I haven't eaten meat for 19 years. I wouldn't mind a roast pork dinner though....kinda miss roasted pork. My cholesterol is waaaay low and my blood pressure is perfect...even though I'm 40 pounds overweight. I workout 4 days a week too...helps.

[sfarnell]

I quit eating meat and fowl 11 years ago. I still eat fish once or twice a week. I still crave a burger or a steak once in a while, but I know it's a slippery slope because I have an addictive personality.

I find that if I eat potatoes, rice, pasta, or any carb that quickly turns to glucose in the blood I get hungry within an hour after eating. If I eat carbs that slowly turn into glucose in the blood after eating, I can go hours without getting hungry. Generally, I stay away from white carbs and eat leafy green vegetables and berries.

Even though it's not strictly vegetarian, you may want to consider a scoop of whey protein in a shake in the a.m. This will help with maintaining and building muscle mass.

Good luck.

[clothwiring]

I'm on a diet, not as non-meat strict as yours and have lost 8 lbs in about 18 days. I know my body can't keep up with that pace, but if I can get 1 lb a week for awhile I'll be happy. Basically I just quit eating so much and have been walking in the morning for about 2.5 miles. I just finished the switch to black coffee from 2 sugars and 1-2 creamers per coffee. I figured I just cut out around 200 calories from that itself. I also feel much cleaner and have more energy. It's been great!

[Blindspot]

You are clearly an imbalanced freak. Animals were given hooves so they can walk their meat over to us!

Actually, I was a strict vegetarian for about 16 years and now eat some meat, but infrequently.

Too much of anything is usually not so good for you - that goes for meat too. None is perfectly fine amount, however - not eating meat will not hurt you at all. Generally, the rumors of certain vitamin deficiencies related to vegetarianism are false - I had regular blood tests and never lacked for anything even when eating vegan. The only supplement you might consider is B12, and only if a blood test indicates a need, which is unlikely.

Lots of professional athletes are vegetarian or even vegan (including an MMA fighter or three.) Good luck!

[Blix]

This may be the most honest and blanaced "I quit meat" discussion I've ever seen. I am honestly shocked.

My thoughts exactly!

I'll third that!

Bacon would be my Achilles heel, man I love bacon!

[Blauserk]

To quote the Samuel L. Jackson character in "Pulp Fiction":

"[M]y girlfriend's a vegetarian. Which more or less makes me a vegetarian, but I sure love the taste of a good burger."

My wife's a vegetarian and I'm a crappy cook, so much of the time I'm a vegetarian. And in any event, to make up for more or less only eating meat and bread until I was 24 or so, I've eaten way more vegetables during the ~19 years since, and it's undoubtedly made me healthier and lighter on my feet. Particularly if you still eat meat once in a while, you won't suffer any dietary ill effects. I'm enough of a nut job that I affirmatively LIKE tofu, although many the ways of preparing it so it's tasty make it no healthier than meat (probably less so). Some of the meat substitutes are quite good--particularly the crumbly fake hamburger, which makes Bolognese sauce so good that I don't even miss the real stuff.

By the way: Bison has less fat and cholesterol than even turkey. Pretty much the closest thing there is to "vegetarian meat."

One final thing: Although I am very vegetarian-friendly, I never cease to be amused by the bumper sticker "If God didn't mean for us to eat animals, why did he make them out of meat?"

[ecvMatt]

I hope it works out well for you!


I have been on an opposite trip lately, I just moved and near my new house is an awesome, locally raised grass fed type of butcher shop, I have never purchased so much meat in my life, the quality difference is truly amazing, different meats too, like lamb and goat. The eggs are amazing.

[Blix]

This is actually the most balanced vegetarian thread I've encountered on the internet ever.

[sfarnell]

...I just moved and near my new house is an awesome, locally raised grass fed type of butcher shop, I have never purchased so much meat in my life, the quality difference is truly amazing, different meats too, like lamb and goat. The eggs are amazing.

This made me hungry. :love:

[ecvMatt]

This made me hungry. :love:

It might be close to you, depending where you are in the bay area, Sun Farms in Pt Reyes Station.

[Jon Silberman]

People lay off meat for different reasons. Some are motivated by health, others by environmental protection, yet others ethically either from a respect for animals perspective or from a desire to no longer inflict the dehumanization of slaughter onto our agents when we're unwilling or unable to do it for ourselves, or both. I say, eating less meat is good all around. If you choose to eat none, great. If you choose to eat less, also great. The planet, at least enviromentally, does not distinguish between the person who goes from meat 2 days a week to none and the one who goes from 6 days a week to 4 days. It's all good. And if meat is really important to you and you can't live without it, stick with it - you're likely contributing to the above values in your own preferred ways and that's cool, too.

[wstsidela]

You'll be back

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4bTJ9VlU4Is/SF5M2rvcr3I/AAAAAAAABSs/RkKz_f4kixI/s400/Juicy+Steak.jpg

[deltaboy]

i think its fairly natural to frequently stock up on greens, nuts, veggies, fruits and fish, and occasionally feast on meat, much like we would have throughout our early existence.

[dewey decibel]

If you're still lifting you might want to consider adding some whey protein to your diet. I have some of the GNC stuff and it's not bad. I guess technically it's from dairy but I don't think that'll be an issue for you.

[Zelmo]

You'll be back

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4bTJ9VlU4Is/SF5M2rvcr3I/AAAAAAAABSs/RkKz_f4kixI/s400/Juicy+Steak.jpg

Why?
http://img.foodnetwork.com/FOOD/2008/03/07/BT0404_Bobby-Flays-Eggplant-Parmesan_lg.jpg

[deltaboy]

no comparison evolutionarily

[Telecaster62]

I believe in moderation in all things. I eat some meat but I try to cook it or have it cooked to be as healthy as possible. Yesterday for Mothers Day we took my mother in law to a steakhouse and I had the grilled salmon. Awesome.

[tonesurfer]

Humans are omnivores. You need (organic) meat. Without the protiens from meat much of your body cannot regenerate properly. This will over time make you weak and susceptible to disease.

[travisvwright]

OP do you mind givining an average day/week meal plan. Being from a bacon and cheese omelet for breakfast - Chili for lunch - Grilled chicken and vegtables for dinner I have what many would consider a healthy diet but eat meat at just about every meal. What's your diet look like?

[AirKuhl]

More power to you, I hope it works out. For myself I try to eat only "good" food these days. That means that I eat less meat simply because so much fast food = ground beef. I also eat more Asian/Indian food which often has no meat or at least a much higher veggie/meat ratio. The key for me as I dramatically improved my health was to cut way back on simple starches and sugars as that had a far worse effect on me than animal protein.

Having said all that, a rack of BBQ ribs as an occasional treat will always be in my future. :love:

[mbargav]

People lay off meat for different reasons. Some are motivated by health, others by environmental protection, yet others ethically either from a respect for animals perspective or from a desire to no longer inflict the dehumanization of slaughter onto our agents when we're unwilling or unable to do it for ourselves, or both. I say, eating less meat is good all around. If you choose to eat none, great. If you choose to eat less, also great. The planet, at least enviromentally, does not distinguish between the person who goes from meat 2 days a week to none and the one who goes from 6 days a week to 4 days. It's all good. And if meat is really important to you and you can't live without it, stick with it - you're likely contributing to the above values in your own preferred ways and that's cool, too.

My thoughts exactly. God, this really is the most genteel vegetarianism tread in the history of the internet!

[Zelmo]

Humans are omnivores. You need (organic) meat. Without the protiens from meat much of your body cannot regenerate properly. This will over time make you weak and susceptible to disease.
Bologna! People adopt this lifestyle and thrive for decades....

[tonesurfer]

Bologna! People adopt this lifestyle and thrive for decades....
They don't thrive at all. Observe a vegan get together and you'll see a bunch of people that could be blown over with a gust of wind. They are not physically strong and do not live to be healthy in old age.

[Will Chalant]

They don't thrive at all. Observe a vegan get together and you'll see a bunch of people that could be blown over with a gust of wind. They are not strong at all and do not live to be healthy in old age.


And this is backed up by what facts?

[steve_man]

find a way to boost your protein levels...or you can forget gaining muscle. After a few days of low-protein diets, you'll lose muscle mass...not fat...

[mbargav]

They don't thrive at all. Observe a vegan get together and you'll see a bunch of people that could be blown over with a gust of wind. They are not physically strong and do not live to be healthy in old age.

They have this thing called Wikipedia now you know. It helps you find "facts" with which to support your "arguments."

Vegan Athletes

Peter Brock (Australian touring car driver)[168]
Brendan Brazier (Triathlete)[169]
Molly Cameron (Cyclist)[170]
Robert Cheeke (Professional bodybuilder) [171]
Bryan Danielson (professional wrestler) [172]
Mac Danzig (professional mixed martial arts fighter)[173][174]
Scott Jurek (Runner)[175]
Georges Laraque (Professional Ice Hockey Player) [176][177]
Carl Lewis (track and field star)[178]
Ricardo Moreira (Professional Mixed Martial Arts Fighter) [179]
Adam Myerson (Cyclist)[180]
Pat Neshek (Professional Major League Baseball Player) [181]
Salim Stoudamire (Professional NBA Player) [182]
Ed Templeton (Professional skateboarder)[183][184][185]

[tonesurfer]

http://drbass.com/veganrats.html

[tonesurfer]

They have this thing called Wikipedia now you know. It helps you find "facts" with which to support your "arguments."

Vegan Athletes

Peter Brock (Australian touring car driver)[168]
Brendan Brazier (Triathlete)[169]
Molly Cameron (Cyclist)[170]
Robert Cheeke (Professional bodybuilder) [171]
Bryan Danielson (professional wrestler) [172]
Mac Danzig (professional mixed martial arts fighter)[173][174]
Scott Jurek (Runner)[175]
Georges Laraque (Professional Ice Hockey Player) [176][177]
Carl Lewis (track and field star)[178]
Ricardo Moreira (Professional Mixed Martial Arts Fighter) [179]
Adam Myerson (Cyclist)[180]
Pat Neshek (Professional Major League Baseball Player) [181]
Salim Stoudamire (Professional NBA Player) [182]
Ed Templeton (Professional skateboarder)[183][184][185]
Not a very compelling list there, sorry.

[mbargav]

http://drbass.com/veganrats.html

This is an experiment performed on rats in 1912. Seriously?

[tonesurfer]

This is an experiment performed on rats in 1912. Seriously?
Doesn't make it any less valid.

[mbargav]

Doesn't make it any less valid.

You used it in support of this sweeping statement:

"They don't thrive at all. Observe a vegan get together and you'll see a bunch of people that could be blown over with a gust of wind. They are not physically strong and do not live to be healthy in old age."

[LHanson]

Doesn't make it any less valid.

It has no validity at all; Humans are not rats.

[tonesurfer]

It has no validity at all; Humans are not rats.
Humans are omnivores, rats are omnivores.

[ecvMatt]

It has no validity at all; Humans are not rats.


Because rats are mammals , their systems should react to these chemicals in a similar way to those of a human test subject.

Source (http://www.wisegeek.com/why-are-rats-used-in-animal-testing.htm)

[amigo30]

I hope it works out well for you!


I have been on an opposite trip lately, I just moved and near my new house is an awesome, locally raised grass fed type of butcher shop, I have never purchased so much meat in my life, the quality difference is truly amazing, different meats too, like lamb and goat. The eggs are amazing.

A few months ago I joined a farmers coop. Lot's of locally grown vegetables. We get some great locally raised grass fed meat and regional seafood from them. Essentially, we eat a lot less meat, but a lot higher quality meat. The taste difference though is extraordinary. The first time I tried one of their eggs, I couldn't believe the taste difference...

[BobbyFudge]

My wife has been a vegetarian for 25 years. She is healthy and in great shape.

She thrives.

[tdarian]

One of the things I did beginning January 2009 when I weighed a frightening 265 lbs at 5'11'' was to curb and then eliminate red meat including pork from my diet. Just thought it might be a good idea to get protein from other sources, and I do eat alot of chicken breasts, egg whites, fish, non-fat greek style yogurt and non-fat cottage cheese.

I did lose a significant amount of weight quickly, and in fact, I got below 180 lbs by late june of 2009. I weighed 174 this morning and have been within a pound or two of this weight for almost a year.

I'm not sure how much of a factor eliminating red meat was in my weight loss because I was on a self administered strict diet and worked out and still work out like I'm training for a marathon. I did not feel any ill effects from eliminating red meat...it just seemed like there were other lower fat and lower calorie ways to get protein other than a cheeseburger or a steak.
At age 56, I'm still able to slowly build muscle and strength w/o the red meat. All measureables are in the low-normal range, including blood pressure. When I started this lifestyle switch my BP was typically at 190/120 which is seriously high and required meds.

No meds of any kinda for over a year.

I probably am killing myself with Mercury and whatever else we have poured into the oceans, but is anything really safe in our food supply?

[Scott Whigham]

Wow - this thread took an odd turn. You guys really think that hijacking this thread for your "You're wrong - I'm right!" argument is what willhutch was hoping for when he posted? Haven't we all learned that posting "facts" doesn't make you the winner on the internet? :roll

Anyway, OP - I've been a vegetarian (no meat, fish, or fowl but do eat dairy/eggs) for probably 15 years now. The number one misconception that I've had to deal with through the years is that we don't get enough protein. My family is all vegetarian (wife and two boys, 2 and 6) and that's never been an issue for us. Our sons are healthy - 95% and 98% height and 75+% weight - so no worries. I took protein supplements when I worked out even as a carnivore and continued doing so as a vegetarian.

The thing I have to watch for is anemia - my diet is low in iron and, if I don't eat spinach every 1-2 months, I'll start feeling low-energy.

That's really the only change for me - eat spinach (or some other iron-rich food) every few months. If you notice yourself feeling more tired than normal, eat spinach!

And FWIW I still miss the tastes of lots of meat/fish/etc :)

[tonesurfer]

I dunno about you guys but I'm off to cook myself a big fat steak

[Blindspot]

Humans are omnivores. You need (organic) meat. Without the protiens from meat much of your body cannot regenerate properly. This will over time make you weak and susceptible to disease.

Misconception. There is always someone who raises this 'argument in this type of discussion. Unfortunately, instead of discussing it from that perspective, or being open to the possibility that there may be some gray in their black and white universe, they instead make claims like "have you ever seen a bunch of vegans, they would get blown over by a gust of wind."

When I was a vegan (and I still eat a 95%+ vegetarian diet), I was 6'1", 185 lbs, ran cross country competitively, road-biked while training cross country a good 200+ miles a week pushing hard, and felt great. Since I was in training, I had routine blood tests, which were always excellent. Today, I eat very, very little meat. I'm closer to 50 than 40. I weigh more than I did then. My blood tests are virtually identical to what they were 20 years ago, with the exception of a slight raise in the cholesterol numbers (currently 158.) I have yet to meet a gust of wind that can blow me over, but then I have never walked directly into a hurricane or a tornado. The people I know, and have known over the years who are vegetarian or vegan generally are healthier than their meat eating counterparts.

HOWEVER, I will allow for the following: Any 'alternative lifestyle' or variation from the 'norm' can attract people for various reasons - in the case of eating habits that are modified from what is considered a traditional American diet, there are certaInly those who will become vegetarian, or vegan, or raw foodies, etc. as a symptom of an eating disorder, rather than as a healthy lifestyle choice. Those people are unhealthy before they change their eating habits, and certainly can look like they are on death's door (regardless of whether they do not eat meat, do not eat bread, only eat rice and water, or gorge themselves on everything and anything only to regurgitate it later.) They do not eat a balanced diet regardless of their current food choices, vegetarian or otherwise.

If you were to come to lunch we me and my vegetarian friends, you would not for a second suspect we had any unusual eating habits, unless you noticed that we all ordered non-meat items for lunch. If you happened across a group of vegans who counted among their ranks a meaningful percentage of people with eating disorders, the appearance would be quite different. This applies, of course, to a group of people eating hamburgers if a meaningful percentage of them had the same disorders and did not intent to allow their system to digest and absorb the food.

[tdarian]

Fresh spinach goes great in egg whites. Have it pretty much every day.

[ksandvik]

I don't personally mind if people eat meat or not. I've myself been vegetarian for soon 17 years or so. My yearly blood tests are normal. Don't feel weak at all.

My reason was raised on a farm and seeing farm animals dragged to the slaughterhouse -- seeing the fear in their eyes left in my case an imprint for the rest of my life. Maybe one less slaughtered cow is needed for my food intake and that's enough.

PS: I now also think that white sugar is 'the cocaine' of the Western civilization.

[LHanson]

Source (http://www.wisegeek.com/why-are-rats-used-in-animal-testing.htm)

Don't get me wrong; animal testing is an essential part of medicine. There's just little reason to do nutrition experiments on rats and extrapolate much about human nutrition. It's easier to find human vegetarians and human omnivores and do studies.

BTW, I eat meat just fine. I tried not eating meat for a couple of months this year- I lost weight, but finding food was a little harder. We (the family) still have at least 2 meatless dinners a week.

[mude]

I understand that many people enjoy meat, but I am surprised how much they actually defend it as a good idea. Health/Environment/Treatment of animals. No problem if people like it enough to weigh the risks and decide it is worth it. But to suggest that eating more vegetables instead of meat is a bad idea seems kind of goofy.

From an animal ethics point of view, it sure seems better to eat meat that did not come through huge factory systems. The treatment seems pretty awful when you see it in action.

Evan.

[Zelmo]

They don't thrive at all. Observe a vegan get together and you'll see a bunch of people that could be blown over with a gust of wind. They are not physically strong and do not live to be healthy in old age.
30 years here. 6' tall, 168 lbs. Haven't even had so much as the sniffles in 6+ years. I'll take a guess and say that it may well be that I can well out-work you, out-run you, out-swim you, out-ride you - and from what I can see here, quite possibly out-think you. Maybe, maybe not... :phones

[Blindspot]

30 years here. 6' tall, 168 lbs. Haven't even had so much as the sniffles in 6+ years. I'll take a guess and say that I may well out-work you, out-run you, out-swim you, out-ride you - and from what I can see here, quite possibly out-think you. :phones

Yes, that is another point I failed to make in my previous post - I don't get sick. I can't say that it is specifically because of my diet, but it does seem to correspond to when I became vegetarian - I ceased to get many illnesses and rarely get any sort of cold or other ailment.

[2leod]

Bologna! People adopt this lifestyle and thrive for decades....
I see what you did there - taking a meat-esque substance and conscripting it as a mild expletive in this particular dicussion.
:dude

[ecvMatt]

Don't get me wrong; animal testing is an essential part of medicine. There's just little reason to do nutrition experiments on rats and extrapolate much about human nutrition. It's easier to find human vegetarians and human omnivores and do studies.

BTW, I eat meat just fine. I tried not eating meat for a couple of months this year- I lost weight, but finding food was a little harder. We (the family) still have at least 2 meatless dinners a week.

Very true, but we don't want to put the rat breeders out of business, do we? I see your point though, and I certainly wasn't trying to participate in the meat eaters=he men, veggies=limp wristed nancy boys.

[tonesurfer]

If you guys want to argue that vegetarians are strong, well then that's a weak arguement.

But in any case, commercial meat and commercial veggies, bad. Organic meat and organic veggies, good.

[teleharmonium]

Over the (18) years being a vegetarian here in the midwest has gone from being mildly challenging at times, to being no problem at all.

There's a restaurant a block away that makes, among many other things, killer sandwiches with tofu and locally made seitan. The seitan has black pepper and anise among other things; my #1 there has it with roasted red pepper, carmelized onion, garlic cloves, provolone, and a little bit of blue cheese, toasted on ciabatta.

Up the street, is a bar with a great beer selection, and you can get a great jerk tofu or black bean burrito or quesadilla with good fresh salsa. My meat eating friends tell me the tofu there is better than the chicken or beef, because they tend to dry out.

The Tofurkey brand fake sausages and slices are really good. (I'm not a fan of most vegetarian "deli slices", but these are in another league.) I think tonight I'll have their "smoked turkey" with avacado, hot pepper cheddar, and mustard.

Sabra hummus is a staple at the house too. It's the best store bought hummus I know of.

[pmcqueen]

They don't thrive at all. Observe a vegan get together and you'll see a bunch of people that could be blown over with a gust of wind. They are not physically strong and do not live to be healthy in old age.

that's funny, because my aunt and uncle's doctor swears that if my uncle had not taken the vegan turn, he'd probably already be dead now. he is in his mid sixties and since becoming vegan has been in the best health of his life, both according to how he feels and what his blood tests are saying.

edit: i just read some more.. what does how strong you are have to do with how healthy you are? i wouldn't even dream of benching anything over 150, and i'm in great health.

[tonesurfer]

that's funny, because my aunt and uncle's doctor swears that if my uncle had not taken the vegan turn, he'd probably already be dead now. he is in his mid sixties and since becoming vegan has been in the best health of his life, both according to how he feels and what his blood tests are saying.

edit: i just read some more.. what does how strong you are have to do with how healthy you are? i wouldn't even dream of benching anything over 150, and i'm in great health.
Times are getting tougher, tough times require tough people. If you're physically weak you're more susceptible to disease and health issues in general.

[pmcqueen]

Times are getting tougher, tough times require tough people. If you're physically weak you're more susceptible to disease and health issues in general.

sorry, i just don't buy into that.
i'm a tough person, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the circumference of my biceps.
i am, by most people's definition, "weak" (in that i haven't spent a single day of my life weight training), but i have no health issues to speak of. am i just the exception to the rule?

i say do whatever works for you. what makes one person healthy doesn't make another person healthy. we all have different bodies that require different styles of living to bring out our best.

[ksandvik]

Core muscles are important to keep strong, you could avoid back problems, especially true for musicians carrying amps. As for other parts being strong, like biceps, wonder if that's really that useful unless your main motivation in the world is to chase girls.

As a vegetarian or non-vegetarian, no difference keeping core muscles in shape, needs right exercise.

[tonesurfer]

sorry, i just don't buy into that.
i'm a tough person, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the circumference of my biceps.
i am, by most people's definition, "weak" (in that i haven't spent a single day of my life weight training), but i have no health issues to speak of. am i just the exception to the rule?

i say do whatever works for you. what makes one person healthy doesn't make another person healthy. we all have different bodies that require different styles of living to bring out our best.
Not just talking about muscles, but having strong internal organs, joints, tissues, good energy and hormone production, etc... Your body is nearly half comprised of protein. If your body cannot get the proper proteins it needs then it's going to be compromised. There is no substitute for animal proteins and humans are omnivores because animal proteins are vital to functioning optimally.

[LHanson]

Not just talking about muscles, but having strong internal organs, joints, tissues, good energy and hormone production, etc... Your body is nearly half comprised of protein. If your body cannot get the proper proteins it needs then it's going to be compromised. There is no substitute for animal proteins and humans are omnivores because animal proteins are vital to functioning optimally.

The human digestive tract breaks down proteins into amino acids. The body then re-assembles these amino acids into the tissues comprised of protein. As long as a person eats foods with reasonable amounts of the essential amino acids, your body has no idea if the amino acids came from animal or vegetable matter.

[Zelmo]

I see what you did there - taking a meat-esque substance and conscripting it as a mild expletive in this particular dicussion.
:dude
Why yes - meat-esque expletive as double entendre. Either that, or I was referring to that city in Italy...


...As long as a person eats foods with reasonable amounts of the essential amino acids, your body has no idea if the amino acids came from animal or vegetable matter.
Thank-you.

[Roadeye]

Unfortunately, so did my ex-wife, right before the divorce.

[ksandvik]

The human digestive tract breaks down proteins into amino acids. The body then re-assembles these amino acids into the tissues comprised of protein. As long as a person eats foods with reasonable amounts of the essential amino acids, your body has no idea if the amino acids came from animal or vegetable matter.

Yep. In addition the food industry is constantly chasing for cost-cutting things by providing steroids in food for faster tissue growth and other interesting stuff you get in addition for the dear amino acids... I don't even want to get down the route of how mad cow disease is triggered.

Anyway, it's a free world, eat anything you want.

[tonesurfer]

The human digestive tract breaks down proteins into amino acids. The body then re-assembles these amino acids into the tissues comprised of protein. As long as a person eats foods with reasonable amounts of the essential amino acids, your body has no idea if the amino acids came from animal or vegetable matter.
And proteins from plants are limited in the necessary amino acids....that's the problem.

[mbargav]

And proteins from plants are limited in the necessary amino acids....that's the problem.

There are 8 essential amino acids, and while the vast majority of non-meat/dairy sources don't contain all of them, a balanced combination of non-meat/dairy products will provide your body with the necessary amino acids, especially if you include things like quinoa in your diet.

Once again my friend: Wikipedia. It's fun!

[tonesurfer]

There are 8 essential amino acids, and while the vast majority of non-meat/dairy sources don't contain all of them, a balanced combination of non-meat/dairy products will provide your body with the necessary amino acids, especially if you include things like quinoa in your diet.

Once again my friend: Wikipedia. It's fun!
Good luck with that juggling act to get what your body needs. I prefer to have the proper amino acids in abundance.

[Jon Silberman]

The human digestive tract breaks down proteins into amino acids. The body then re-assembles these amino acids into the tissues comprised of protein. As long as a person eats foods with reasonable amounts of the essential amino acids, your body has no idea if the amino acids came from animal or vegetable matter.
Stop making sense. :)

[BobbyFudge]

The human digestive tract breaks down proteins into amino acids. The body then re-assembles these amino acids into the tissues comprised of protein. As long as a person eats foods with reasonable amounts of the essential amino acids, your body has no idea if the amino acids came from animal or vegetable matter.

You and your damn science!

[BobbyFudge]

Good luck with that juggling act to get what your body needs. I prefer to have the proper amino acids in abundance.

Like it has been repeated ad nauseum....It it very doable. And with every post you dig yourself deeper. As was stated earlier, this was a great balanced thread with an honest assessment by a member about their experience...
You have continued to troll the thread with ignorance and anecdotal hoohaa.

Give it up.:drink

[LHanson]

Good luck with that juggling act to get what your body needs. I prefer to have the proper amino acids in abundance.

Not all that hard to juggle. Beans and rice will do it quite nicely.

Bubba, I'm not trying to talk anybody into vegetarianism- I'm not even one myself. I'm simply saying that it's just as much Bull$hit to say that a vegetarian diet is unhealthy as it is to say eating meat is unhealthy. Moderation is the key to everything, of course. I prefer to manage it by going meatless a few days a week.

[tonesurfer]

Like it has been repeated ad nauseum....It it very doable. And with every post you dig yourself deeper. As was stated earlier, this was a great balanced thread with an honest assessment by a member about their experience...
You have continued to troll the thread with ignorance and anecdotal hoohaa.

Give it up.:drink
I said it made people weaker and I backed it up. It is pure fantasy that you can get all you need from plant sources. Vegetarianism is about weakening the populace to the point that they do not interfere with the goals of the establishment. As far as I can see most of your posts are defense of whatever the mainstream media/establishment has to say.

[Blindspot]

I said it made people weaker and I backed it up. It is pure fantasy that you can get all you need from plant sources. Vegetarianism is about weakening the populace to the point that they do not interfere with the goals of the establishment. As far as I can see most of your posts are defense of whatever the mainstream media/establishment has to say.

Clearly you are either just trolling to annoy people, or a vegetarian once beat you up (physically, intellectually, who knows - I am merely spinning a yarn, as you have been in this thread), and then made sweet, long, deeeep love to someone you pined for but couldn't have, or worse, lost. :banana

[BobbyFudge]

I said it made people weaker and I backed it up. It is pure fantasy that you can get all you need from plant sources. Vegetarianism is about weakening the populace to the point that they do not interfere with the goals of the establishment. As far as I can see most of your posts are defense of whatever the mainstream media/establishment has to say.

Holy Krap! I guess I need to stock up on some non-hybrid seeds...:roll

[Boris Bubbanov]

I haven't eaten meat for 19 years. I wouldn't mind a roast pork dinner though....kinda miss roasted pork.

+1

I quit about the same time, but only the red meat types. I still eat lots of fish and shellfish, plus chicken, duck and turkey. I quit around 16-17 years ago - don't know exactly when because I did not wanna set myself up. I just took one day at a time, one day led into another and another and another.

I have tried to eliminate the chicken, etc. but the amount of loss of muscle mass I suffered was too pronounced. I wasn't prepared to give up strength and endurance training or any sports activities.

I miss that pulled pork shoulder now and again. A little. Hamburgers? Don't make me laugh. They seem so disgusting now.

[tonesurfer]

Translated Russian article/study on Vegetarianism

Vegetarianism proves to be perversion of nature

Vegetarians can be referred to as true fanatics. On the other hand, they are seriously misled in their beliefs. Practically nobody argues with them, since it is really difficult to convince a vegetarian of his or her self-deception. May be that is the reason why the vegetarian movement develops so actively around the globe and continues to recruit many new members.

To produce a cell is not an easy process for the human body. Being a parent to all cells, a human being is supposed to be responsible for all of them. The human body is unable to generate all substances necessary for the production of cells. It has only 12 or 20 protein amino acids required for the process. The remaining chemicals are supposed to be delivered with food. Each and every human cell is supposed to be supplied with first class animal protein (http://english.pravda.ru/filing/animal_protein/).

Some may say that there is enough protein in vegetables (beans, for example) True, but recent studies show that vegetable protein can be digested only with the help of its animal analogue.

The human body has its own preferences, by the way. Experts proved that our body requires and assimilates the following substances as construction materials:

Egg white – 100%
Soured milk – 90%
Fresh milk – 83%
Beef – 76%
Cottage cheese – 75%

Compare this data with that concerning vegetable protein:

Wheat bread – 52%

This is the main reason why dietitians recommend to consume 60 percent of animal protein and 40 percent of vegetable analogue from the daily ration.
No vitamins and mineral substances are of any use if our organism does not receive animal protein. Like vegetable protein, they can not be digested without animal protein.

Vegetarians (http://english.pravda.ru/filing/Vegetarians/), especially those of advanced age, usually face numerous health problems that are mainly caused with the shortage of animal protein. After two months of no-meat diet, the quantity of protein in the cardiac muscle decreases four times, which triggers the development of heart failure. The work of all other organs worsens soon after. A vegetarian man or woman may find themselves on the brink of dystrophy.

First signs of dystrophy are not that evident and burdensome, but the resulting effect may lead to lamentable consequences. Have you ever seen starving African children on TV? Then you must remember those thin legs and swelled bellies, which dystrophy causes.

If you are going to have children, do not be in a hurry to join vegetarians. Many people think that such lifestyle produces rejuvenating effect which showing a positive effect on the reproduction function. However, reproduction depends on animal protein to a large extent. If a man does not receive irreplaceable amino acids with food, he can become infertile in perspective.

Furthermore, cosmetologists say that a typical vegetarian has dry and fragile hair, dull eyes and unhealthy complexion. They can hardly stand criticism and have a low boiling point. They raise their voice, swing their arms and splutter when arguing. They are weak even in their logic. They exemplify their righteousness with the cow, a herbivorous animal, and say that nature originally made a human being as a vegetarian creature.

Experts have recently put forward a hypothesis that can justify vegetarians. Scientists assert that there are people with irregular metabolism. They do not need animal protein at all. However, such people can be described as a mistake of nature. There are many of them, but most vegetarians are mistaken in their devotion according to this theory.

Of course, meat is heavy food, but nobody says that you should eat plenty of it. A person can eat at least 100g of meat (which is the size of a matchbox) a day to feel healthy.

http://english.pravda.ru/science/health/103756-0/

[Blindspot]

^What a hilarious load of horse poop! Ha! What could possibly be your motivation, other than to humor the crowd?:nuts

[JLaps]

I really don't want to fuel the fire or anything and this is a serious question. To those who have given up meat (vegetarian or vegan), are you comparing your better health to a healthy diet with meat or an unhealthy diet with meat? I just find that many people simply do not care about their health, or say they do but don't act on it in terms of nutrition. Vegetarians and vegans are much more likely to care about their health than those of us who eat meat so maybe there's a certain bias in that regard.

As an aside, I started eating much healthier these past couple of months - cut out most refined carbs and sugars, eating much more vegetables, grilled chicken and meats - and have notice a pretty significant increase in the amount of energy I have throughout the day. I am basically eating a paleo diet plus dairy (because squats + milk = strong). Not to say I was eating cheeseburgers every day all day, but I think this change is mostly due to cutting out refined carbs and not getting those large insulin spikes after eating.

[Hendrix99]

Good luck with that juggling act to get what your body needs. I prefer to have the proper amino acids in abundance.

Abundance is nothing. Like taking mega doses of vitamins. The body excretes anything more than what it needs. You can take 1000000 times the daily recommend value of water soluble vitamins and your body pisses all of that over what it needs out. And with fat soluble vitamins, excess is toxic. Abundance is meaningless and irrelevant.

There is no evidence. No credible proven scientific evidence in the medical literature to support any of the stuff you have said here. After you graduate from medical school or get an advanced degree in nutrition then your points may be more valid. But blanket statements and quotes from google searches are not valid sources. That is how the scientific community works my friend. Body building magazines and the like are not health literature and do not count. Sure, if you want to bench press 500 lbs you need a shit load of protein and likely need to eat pounds of red meat daily to do so. Talk to me after you get your cardiac stents or CABG surgery.

Who cares if people eat meat or not? As a doctor, I see plenty of meat eaters who are obese and dying/dead of heart disease or stroke. Same goes for vegetarians. Eating 4,000 calories of crap and fat without meat isn't healthy either. It is all about moderation whichever path you choose. You can be plenty healthy and fit (with muscle mass) without eating meat or with eating meat. And the opposite is also true.

Everyone in the world should take a nutrition class, it would put bullshit myths like the posts in this thread to rest. Eat right - balanced diet with appropriate caloric intake, exercise, don't smoke, and have moderate alcohol intake without excess. That is what it is all about. Period. Adjust according to blood pressure and cholesterol levels (both of which may be secondary to diet and/or genetics).

[BobbyFudge]

:roll:roll:roll:roll:roll:roll:roll:roll:roll:roll :roll:roll

Wow.

[tonesurfer]

Abundance is nothing. Like taking mega doses of vitamins. The body excretes anything more than what it needs. You can take 1000000 times the daily recommend value of water soluble vitamins and your body pisses all of that over what it needs out. And with fat soluble vitamins, excess is toxic. Abundance is meaningless and irrelevant.
Context is everything. The discussion was about building blocks to create protein bases in the body. I'm not sure what you're babbling on about.

There is no evidence. No credible proven scientific evidence in the medical literature to support any of the stuff you have said here. After you graduate from medical school or get an advanced degree in nutrition then your points may be more valid. But blanket statements and quotes from google searches are not valid sources.

Degrees shouldn't make people exempt from using logic and common sense. Many of the quote "credible" scientific studies are funded by people with agendas. It needn't take a degree to understand that.

[deltaboy]

there's actually an abundance of recent studies that shows that vitamin supplements are essentially useless for people around the ages of 20-50 due to the fact that they do not possess vital "buffers" that are found with the vitamins you would consume from plants and animals. Your body can also overdose on vitamins, and other studies have also shown that, as mentioned earlier, fish and meat also contain these buffers for amino acids/proteins. It's why a diet based on chicken and not just whey protein has such good results for people who work out/body build.

[tonedaddy]

Who cares if people eat meat or not? As a doctor, I see plenty of meat eaters who are obese and dying/dead of heart disease or stroke. Same goes for vegetarians. Eating 4,000 calories of crap and fat without meat isn't healthy either. It is all about moderation whichever path you choose. You can be plenty healthy and fit (with muscle mass) without eating meat or with eating meat. And the opposite is also true.

Everyone in the world should take a nutrition class, it would put bullshit myths like the posts in this thread to rest. Eat right - balanced diet with appropriate caloric intake, exercise, don't smoke, and have moderate alcohol intake without excess. That is what it is all about. Period. Adjust according to blood pressure and cholesterol levels (both of which may be secondary to diet and/or genetics).


Thanks for the liberal dose of sanity.
:aok


I think that finding the right balance in your diet and lifestyle is what it's all about. I've had 3 heart attacks and have congestive heart failure. I changed my diet drastically, adopted good eating habits, and cut out red meat. My cardiologist saw my health improve, but I still didn't feel well. When I moved to FL my new cardiologist had a nutritionist on staff, they moved me to a Mediterranean diet adding occasional beef and pork, added some supplements, upped my exercise regimen, and now my blood tests are better than ever since my first heart attack, and the ol' ticker is sounding/looking better than ever, according to them. And I do feel better.

Similarly my daughter was a vegetarian and was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis. She was literally bedridden for over a year, and had to be carried to and from the bathroom. Her rheumatologist and nutritionist added meat back in her diet, and along with some new drug protocols she has recovered remarkably.


Was/is eating meat a factor in our improvement?
Who knows, but frankly my daughter and I don't care,
because what we're doing now is working for us.

We could cut out meat and see what happens, but right now the occasional steak tastes too good to do that.....
;)

[coreybox]

Everyone in the world should take a nutrition class, it would put bullshit myths like the posts in this thread to rest. Eat right - balanced diet with appropriate caloric intake, exercise, don't smoke, and have moderate alcohol intake without excess. That is what it is all about. Period. Adjust according to blood pressure and cholesterol levels (both of which may be secondary to diet and/or genetics).

It wouldn't make a difference. As this thread goes to show, people are extraordinarily good at ignoring facts.

[Zelmo]

Studies show that meat eating does not necessarily prevent feeblemindedness.

[RobRowland]

Glad you've quit - More for Me!

For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three.

[BudLite]

"Every time an American turns vegan, the terrorists win"

[RobRowland]

"Every time an American turns vegan, the terrorists win"


This is my kind of logic :aok

[57special]

Will,
Have you tried Szechuan Garden down in Bloomington on France? Excellent noodles! Good luck with the veggie thing. Friends of mine who've gone that route tend to lose weight, get spiritual, and have stinky farts for the first year or so till they figure out how to balance their diet.
As long as you're energy is good, sounds like a good lifestyle change.

[Gretsch1972]

Of course, meat is heavy food, but nobody says that you should eat plenty of it. A person can eat at least 100g of meat (which is the size of a matchbox) a day to feel healthy.

http://english.pravda.ru/science/health/103756-0/

Never a more reliable news source than Pravda!

[jetsnation]

3 weeks ago I decided to cut meat out of my diet and severely limit intake of dairy and eggs. The primary motivation for doing so is improving and maintaining my health. I am not calling myself a vegetarian, as I plan to indulge in meat dishes on occasion.

After 3 weeks, I thought I'd share my experiences to date:

1) Little to no inconvenience. Being very into Chinese cuisine, cutting meat out of meals has been easy. I enjoy cooking, so I enjoy the creative challenge of revamping my meals. This makes it easier for me than for most people, I suspect.
2) Weight loss. I've lost almost 5 lbs in 3 weeks. I was stuck at 184 for a full year even with a very heavy workout schedule. I'm down to the weight I was at right after high school.
3) I miss the satisfaction I experienced with animal fat in my diet. I find that I am hungry shortly after eating. The upside is that my low calorie foodstuffs allow me to eat a greater volume of food. So I can chow more, and more often, and still have lower calorie intake than before.
4) I miss the taste of a nice pork chop or chicken wing.
5) I feel clean inside. This is probably just imaginary, but I certainly feel clean and healthy.
6) My energy level is great for cardio activities, but I do not feel as well-feuled for strength training. I'm not sure if this has to do with the general calorie deficit I am in now or the specific lack of animal protien and fat in my diet.

I believe I am getting the adequate nutrients. I am getting my protien from legumes (particularly soy). I am careful to mix foods to assure I am getting complete protiens

I am happy with my diet choice. I am interested to hear the experiences of others who have stopped eating meat.

Where do you live? If you live in the south and midwest, giving up meat is hard because it's absolutely everywhere. It's not as bad if you live on the west coast. Best situation for non meat eaters are the hippie areas (Vermont, Oregon, etc.) I live in Vermont. When I go out with friends, I'd say over 70 percent are vegetarians. As soon as we got here, my midwest raised wife turned into a non-meat eater.

I'd like to stop eating meat for various resons. Maybe I should man-up and stop being a weakling. Thanks, you got me thinking with such a great post.

[nrvana8775]

I'm vegan, have been for three years.

I'm 5'11, 155 or so. If I don't get B12, I feel lethargic. Other than that, I feel about the same.

[nrvana8775]

"Every time an American turns vegan, the terrorists win"

?

I hope I missed some underlying irony or satire.

[drgonzoguitar]

Come on over, Will. I'll break that non-meat habit.....WITH PORK!!!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/CannonFodder187/Gear%20Page%20Fun/DSCN0878.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/CannonFodder187/Gear%20Page%20Fun/DSCN0879.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/CannonFodder187/Gear%20Page%20Fun/DSCN0881.jpg


:D

Seriously, do what feels right for your body. You only get one (for now). ;)

[RobRowland]

?

I hope I missed some underlying irony or satire.

Yep, must be the lack of protein :banana

[nrvana8775]

I said it made people weaker and I backed it up. It is pure fantasy that you can get all you need from plant sources. Vegetarianism is about weakening the populace to the point that they do not interfere with the goals of the establishment. As far as I can see most of your posts are defense of whatever the mainstream media/establishment has to say.

I think you have it backwards.

The 'average american' lifestyle is what prevents people from interfering with the 'goals of the establishment.'

I wake up, I eat some eggs, sausage, etc. that are treated with hormones and antiobotics, and will have horrible effects on my cholesterol levels and general health. I then drink my coffee and read the news that government and media outlets have deemed appropriate for me. I drive my car to a job that pays just enough to keep me content, so that I don't side with those poor socialist idiots. Once I get to work, I work hard, and do my job, because I believe that hard work leads to better opportunities. Nevermind the discrepencies in pay, or general adoption of an authoritarian mindset, which I now seem to crave.

What's that? Lunch! Alright, let's hit up McDonald's or Burger King. Yes, I will have the double cheeseburger, fries, and a soda. 100% meat you say? I have no idea what that means, but it tastes great. Surely, they use high quality, organic meats that contain no preservatives, antiobiotics, or hormones. The soda? It doesn't have anything artificial in it. Aspartame and BHT won't cause any problems. Tasted great, let's go back to work.

Oh, no...It's 2:30, and I am really tired. Better slam a redbull. CAFFEINE, CAFFIENE, CAFFIENE. I Love it! I am going to be so productive, and I'll get that raise, just you wait.

So, I get home, and I bitch about my boss. I'll watch the news as background noise, and find myself so busy trying to get by, that I have completely ignored current events. Oh....this doesn't immediately affect me, I don't care. What was that? OH HONEY, HURRY, OUR FAVORITE SITCOM IS ON. I would much rather watch this than attempt to learn about societal ills. 10 pm? Time for bed!

[RobRowland]

I think you have it backwards.

The 'average american' lifestyle is what prevents people from interfering with the 'goals of the establishment.'

I wake up, I eat some eggs, sausage, etc. that are treated with hormones and antiobotics, and will have horrible effects on my cholesterol levels and general health. I then drink my coffee and read the news that government and media outlets have deemed appropriate for me. I drive my car to a job that pays just enough to keep me content, so that I don't side with those poor socialist idiots. Once I get to work, I work hard, and do my job, because I believe that hard work leads to better opportunities. Nevermind the discrepencies in pay, or general adoption of an authoritarian mindset, which I now seem to crave.

What's that? Lunch! Alright, let's hit up McDonald's or Burger King. Yes, I will have the double cheeseburger, fries, and a soda. 100% meat you say? I have no idea what that means, but it tastes great. Surely, they use high quality, organic meats that contain no preservatives, antiobiotics, or hormones. The soda? It doesn't have anything artificial in it. Aspartame and BHT won't cause any problems. Tasted great, let's go back to work.

Oh, no...It's 2:30, and I am really tired. Better slam a redbull. CAFFEINE, CAFFIENE, CAFFIENE. I Love it! I am going to be so productive, and I'll get that raise, just you wait.

So, I get home, and I bitch about my boss. I'll watch the news as background noise, and find myself so busy trying to get by, that I have completely ignored current events. Oh....this doesn't immediately affect me, I don't care. What was that? OH HONEY, HURRY, OUR FAVORITE SITCOM IS ON. I would much rather watch this than attempt to learn about societal ills. 10 pm? Time for bed!


What has this got to do with eating meat?

[nrvana8775]

What has this got to do with eating meat?

His assertion is that meat= strength = propensity towards fighting government.

When in reality, the crap that most people put in their bodies makes them lethargic, unhealthy, apathetic, etc. It's more about meat, it's about quality.

Nothing wrong with meat, but that crap that is in our general supply is disgusting.

[jetsnation]

His assertion is that meat= strength = propensity towards fighting government.

When in reality, the crap that most people put in their bodies makes them lethargic, unhealthy, apathetic, etc. It's more about meat, it's about quality.

Nothing wrong with meat, but that crap that is in our general supply is disgusting.

Hormones, high fructose corn syrup, and pesticides- what a disaster.

[les]

I stopped eating red meat in the late 70's and gave up chicken and fish in 2000.

It used to be harder, but now it is pretty easy to be vegan or vegetarian. Tofu is great!

Congrats on taking a major step forward to your health!

[mchi.stephen]

Even though it's not strictly vegetarian, you may want to consider a scoop of whey protein in a shake in the a.m. This will help with maintaining and building muscle mass.

Good luck.


Really good idea and if anybody decides to do this route take some BioPlex WPI.
It's really pure, high grade whey protein isolate without all the added "BAM BAM and this BAM with 5g of BAM!!!! NEON LETTERS! BAM" you see most items with.


Maybe I should man-up and stop being a weakling. Thanks, you got me thinking with such a great post.

Real men eat meat

[anathema]

I said it made people weaker and I backed it up. It is pure fantasy that you can get all you need from plant sources. Vegetarianism is about weakening the populace to the point that they do not interfere with the goals of the establishment. As far as I can see most of your posts are defense of whatever the mainstream media/establishment has to say.

You have it backwards, the media/establishment wants you to eat the hormone and steroid laden crap meat that is so cheap and plentiful. Full of fats and crappy meat will keep you docile like the good fat piggy you are. There is no media push for vegetarianism, the media pushes fast food, microwave food and convenient food on us every single day. McDonalds adverts are geared towards children to get them hooked early.

[pmcqueen]

I said it made people weaker and I backed it up. It is pure fantasy that you can get all you need from plant sources. Vegetarianism is about weakening the populace to the point that they do not interfere with the goals of the establishment. As far as I can see most of your posts are defense of whatever the mainstream media/establishment has to say.


i will continue to eat what i want to eat, which happens to mostly exclude red meat. i don't care if you think i am killing myself, but i am particularly offended that you are claiming that because i don't like meat, i am somehow contributing to the decay of my country. i sincerely hope you are just playing and trying to get a rise out of us.

[Gretsch1972]

Lighten up. I think tonesurfer is being ironic. If not, though...yikes.

[BobbyFudge]

Lighten up. I think tonesurfer is being ironic. If not, though...yikes.

No. Yikes is the correct reaction.

[Blindspot]

Lighten up. I think tonesurfer is being ironic. If not, though...yikes.

i·ron·ic   [ahy-ron-ik]
–adjective
1.
containing or exemplifying irony: an ironic novel; an ironic remark.
2.
ironical.
3.
coincidental; unexpected: It was ironic that I was seated next to my ex-husband at the dinner.

Troll

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion. In addition to the offending poster, the noun “troll” can also refer to the provocative message itself, as in that was an excellent troll you posted. While the term troll and its associated action, trolling, are primarily associated with Internet discourse, media attention in recent years has made such labels highly subjective, with trolling being used to describe many intentionally provocative actions outside of an online context.

[tonesurfer]

You have it backwards, the media/establishment wants you to eat the hormone and steroid laden crap meat that is so cheap and plentiful. Full of fats and crappy meat will keep you docile like the good fat piggy you are. There is no media push for vegetarianism, the media pushes fast food, microwave food and convenient food on us every single day. McDonalds adverts are geared towards children to get them hooked early.
No, I have it correct but there's more to it...some of which you elaborated on. I'm not advocating that one should eat commercial meat and dairy products because that's almost as bad as eating none at all. Organic meat and vegetables are what your body needs. The media doesn't have to push for vegetarianism, people think they are rebelling against the system only to be lead into another brilliantly designed trap.

[coreybox]

The media doesn't have to push for vegetarianism, people think they are rebelling against the system only to be lead into another brilliantly designed trap.

:nuts

Since when does vegetarian == rebelling against the system? It might seem that way since it is not the norm... but I guarantee that most vegetarians don't care about "the system". They are doing it for personal reasons, whatever they may be (health, animal rights, etc). They usually aren't trying to buck anything.

[tonesurfer]

Since when does vegetarian == rebelling against the system? It might seem that way since it is not the norm... but I guarantee that most vegetarians don't care about "the system". They are doing it for personal reasons, whatever they may be (health, animal rights, etc). They usually aren't trying to buck anything.
Regardless it's a movement designed to weaken people. The vegetarian Hindus of southern India have the shortest lifespan in the world.

Here's some info from studies done on the lifespan of vegetarians and non vegetarians
http://www.vegetarian-diet.info/vegetarian-diet-issues-lifespan.htm

[Gretsch1972]

Regardless it's a movement designed to weaken people. The vegetarian Hindus of southern India have the shortest lifespan in the world.

Well, I'm going to go vegetarian so I can die sooner, thereby depriving the mainstream media years of my viewership and taking literally tens of dollars of tax revenue from my corpor-government oppressors.

[Zelmo]

Regardless it's a movement designed to weaken people. The vegetarian Hindus of southern India have the shortest lifespan in the world.

Here's some info from studies done on the lifespan of vegetarians and non vegetarians
http://www.vegetarian-diet.info/vegetarian-diet-issues-lifespan.htm
:jo

The reference about Hindu lifespans in South India that is cited in the above link is this, fyi: http://www.biblelife.org/abrams2.htm
A picture may be emerging here; just pointing out a possible/likely bias. I will take my leave for now....

[mbargav]

While we're on the subject of eating:

http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx19/bargavm/dont-feed-the-troll.jpg

[AirKuhl]

I've never seen any evidence that a vegetarian diet is any more or less healthy than any other diet.

What I have seen is that people who decide to become veggies are by definition making a conscious decision to eat healthier and live healthier lives. Once you do this, the details, like whether you prefer no meat, more meat, more tofu, etc. don't make any difference. There are many ways to become healthier.

The people who tend to have physical problems caused by their diets are the ones that lead sedentary lifestyles and overeat. They can be the stereotypical American Walmart shopper or the shrill, militant vegan saving cow souls, makes no difference.

The only downside I've ever seen re: vegetarians is the seemingly prevalent lack of a sense of humor.

[tonesurfer]

:jo

The reference about Hindu lifespans in South India that is cited in the about link is this, fyi: http://www.biblelife.org/abrams2.htm
A picture may be emerging here; just pointing out a possible/likely bias. I will take my leave for now....
Wow, so his scientific journals are referenced on a religious oriented site...as well as hundreds of other sites. Hello!

[tonesurfer]

Here's a great article for all to read on this:
http://www.westonaprice.org/Myths-of-Vegetarianism.html

It addresses these 15 myths
Myth #1: Meat consumption contributes to famine and depletes the Earth's natural resources. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#1)
Myth #2: Vitamin B12 can be obtained from plant sources. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#2)
Myth #3: Our needs for vitamin D can be met by sunlight. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#3)
Myth #4: The body's needs for vitamin A can be entirely obtained from plant foods. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#4)
Myth #5: Meat-eating causes osteoporosis, kidney disease, heart disease, and cancer. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#5)
Myth #6: Saturated fats and dietary cholesterol cause heart disease, atherosclerosis, and/or cancer, and low-fat, low-cholesterol diets are healthier for people. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#6)
Myth #7: Vegetarians live longer and have more energy and endurance than meat-eaters. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#7)
Myth #8: The "cave man" diet was low-fat and/or vegetarian. Humans evolved as vegetarians. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#8)
Myth #9: Meat and saturated fat consumption have increased in the 20th century, with a corresponding increase in heart disease and cancer. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#9)
Myth #10: Soy products are adequate substitutes for meat and dairy products. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#10)
Myth #11: The human body is not designed for meat consumption. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#11)
Myth #12: Eating animal flesh causes violent, aggressive behavior in humans. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#12)
Myth #13: Animal products contain numerous, harmful toxins. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#13)
Myth #14: Eating meat or animal products is less "spiritual" than eating only plant foods. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#14)
Myth #15: Eating animal foods is inhumane. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#15)

[travisvwright]

Zelmo you introduced religion to this thread. Tonesurfer may have some views that align with a religion but he left those out. You on the other hand tried to discredit someone by associating them with a certain religion. That's just pathetic, and stickign with thematic thread elements...Weak.

"You can't be correct about nutrition because of your views on dieties." = Most illogical statement.

[travisvwright]

OP do you mind givining an average day/week meal plan. Being from a bacon and cheese omelet for breakfast - Chili for lunch - Grilled chicken and vegtables for dinner I have what many would consider a healthy diet but eat meat at just about every meal. What's your diet look like?OP I didn't see an answer to this so I'm bumping it.

Early on in this thread I commented on how blanaced it was. What made it so was that the OP now non meat eater listed some of the negatives while meat eaters responded with positve comments about taking charge of his health. Since page 3 the comments have all been totalitarian, "This is why side X is right and side Y is wrong." I haven't seen anyone on either side allow their side had even the slightest negative.

[pmcqueen]

everybody is unique and everybody reacts to the food they eat differently. you aren't going to die early or live a life riddled with constant health issues if you just listen to your body and take note of how you react to changes in your lifestyle, including what you eat... you just gotta do whatever works for you.

anyone who tells you differently (unless it's your doctor) is merely suffering from ias (internet affirmation syndrome), where they use google to support claims that further a specific agenda without looking at the facts objectively.

[travisvwright]

Sorry for being accusatory. I was just officially withdrawing my original claim of honesty, balance, and manners in this thread.

[pmcqueen]

see my edit, i think my original post was a bit too "charged" :)

[Blindspot]

Here's a great article for all to read on this:
http://www.westonaprice.org/Myths-of-Vegetarianism.html

It addresses these 15 myths
Myth #1: Meat consumption contributes to famine and depletes the Earth's natural resources. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#1)
Myth #2: Vitamin B12 can be obtained from plant sources. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#2)
Myth #3: Our needs for vitamin D can be met by sunlight. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#3)
Myth #4: The body's needs for vitamin A can be entirely obtained from plant foods. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#4)
Myth #5: Meat-eating causes osteoporosis, kidney disease, heart disease, and cancer. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#5)
Myth #6: Saturated fats and dietary cholesterol cause heart disease, atherosclerosis, and/or cancer, and low-fat, low-cholesterol diets are healthier for people. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#6)
Myth #7: Vegetarians live longer and have more energy and endurance than meat-eaters. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#7)
Myth #8: The "cave man" diet was low-fat and/or vegetarian. Humans evolved as vegetarians. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#8)
Myth #9: Meat and saturated fat consumption have increased in the 20th century, with a corresponding increase in heart disease and cancer. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#9)
Myth #10: Soy products are adequate substitutes for meat and dairy products. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#10)
Myth #11: The human body is not designed for meat consumption. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#11)
Myth #12: Eating animal flesh causes violent, aggressive behavior in humans. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#12)
Myth #13: Animal products contain numerous, harmful toxins. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#13)
Myth #14: Eating meat or animal products is less "spiritual" than eating only plant foods. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#14)
Myth #15: Eating animal foods is inhumane. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/#15)

Trolling up Weston Price nonsense is pretty pathetic. Anyone that can operate 'teh Google' can find plenty of information that refutes and contradicts Price's agenda-based pushing of the lard-heavy diet. Here (http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/diet-myths-the-misinformation-of-barry-groves-and-weston-price.html).

[Boris Bubbanov]

No, I have it correct but there's more to it...some of which you elaborated on. I'm not advocating that one should eat commercial meat and dairy products because that's almost as bad as eating none at all. Organic meat and vegetables are what your body needs. The media doesn't have to push for vegetarianism, people think they are rebelling against the system only to be lead into another brilliantly designed trap.


Now I like what is being said here.

But you've antagonized so many folks to such a degree that they're not listening, by the time they get to this post.

If you save your vitriol for the commercial meat purveyors, you will make traction and be doing the rest of us some good.

When I think about all the backcountry hardwood forest that has been cleancut to grow soybeans, I get very upset. The soybean grows where other cash crops won't and it is tearing the heck out of places people need to leave for wild critters. Just as bad in its way as this big chicken and hog operations, I think.

[tonesurfer]

Trolling up Weston Price nonsense is pretty pathetic. Anyone that can operate 'teh Google' can find plenty of information that refutes and contradicts Price's agenda-based pushing of the lard-heavy diet. Here (http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/diet-myths-the-misinformation-of-barry-groves-and-weston-price.html).
It's an article their site along with many others with different views happen to be hosting. In any case, like Zelmo you seem only capable of resorting to weak associations and character attacks. Can you actually build an arguement based on facts? Or is it easier to just call someone a troll and do 2 seconds of research to back up your preconceptions.

[Zelmo]

Zelmo you introduced religion to this thread. Tonesurfer may have some views that align with a religion but he left those out. You on the other hand tried to discredit someone by associating them with a certain religion. That's just pathetic, and stickign with thematic thread elements...Weak.

"You can't be correct about nutrition because of your views on dieties." = Most illogical statement.
No, actually Mr. Tonesurfer did in his comment:The vegetarian Hindus of southern India have the shortest lifespan in the world.

He further introduced a reference for his assertion that was biased in this same regard as well - and a poor reference at that. Just pointing that out.

[willhutch]

Since some have asked, below is a typical day's menu. But I like to cook so there really is no 'typical' for me. I have a very wide diet. But yesterday looked something like this:

Breakfast - bowl of oatmeal with blueberries, apple,honey, skim milk and maybe some nuts. Glass of home made soy milk with pulp. Two cups of coffee.

10:30 am - piece of toast with peanut butter

Lunch - bruschtta (bread with tomato or mushroom concoction and olive oil), fruit, handful of nuts, glass of skim milk or soy milk left over from breakfast.

Afternoon snack - fruit, nuts, toast

Dinner - veggie stir fry, some legumes, rice or quinoa, salad, fruit.

Evening - I'll eat some sunflower seeds, an apple, maybe a banana smoothie with no-fat yogurt.

I also have a heavy workout regime involving weight training, running, pilates, yoga.

[Blindspot]

Meh.