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View Full Version : British speakers in Twin Reverb?


rainbowgunshow
06-15-2010, 01:29 PM
I'm looking to get some new speakers in my '65 TRRI, so I asked the guys at Weber for some advice. With the info I gave them on what I was looking for, they recommended one ceramic blue dog and one ceramic silver bell. It sounds like it would help cut through mixes, eliminate some of the shrill high frequencies I get with the C12k's, etc... I was basically wondering if any of you have experimented with british speakers in Fender amps and if it had good results.

The Guy
06-15-2010, 01:38 PM
i dont know. . . you may tear a hole in space/time thereby creating a vortex to another dimension.

good luck.

Tripower455
06-15-2010, 02:13 PM
I replaced the sterile K120s in my SF Twin with Eminence Tonkers, and never looked back. Sounded awesome!

rusty a.
06-15-2010, 02:20 PM
To my ear they thin out the treble and mush your bass up...ive heard lots of good words spoken about the eminence cannabis rex for smoothing out a twin's highs but retaining the body and punch...

rainbowgunshow
06-15-2010, 02:48 PM
To my ear they thin out the treble and mush your bass up...ive heard lots of good words spoken about the eminence cannabis rex for smoothing out a twin's highs but retaining the body and punch...

I think the silver bell would help as far as the mushy bass goes.

gulliver
06-15-2010, 03:11 PM
I don't have a Twin, but have a JCM2205 with a clean channel that's quite fendery ... was very close to my '64 Vibroverb before breakup. I'm in the opposite camp, always considering American speakers over Brit.

It's a tough call, you lose the glassiness and pure cleaness in the brit speakers, but gain nice breakup that goes above and beyond what you get from amp and pedals.

I do like the Blue Dog with strat tones, but mine is Alnico. It does have an interesting sizzly chime up top, very vintagey and a little Voxy. Alnico will really change your dynamics, ceramic may be better for the touch of single coils, but may lose the unique top end.

The Scumback M75 100 watter was better for strat tones for me, although most like it for high gain. The voicing was close to the Blue Dog, but as I said, more touch in the dynamics (is ceramic) ... a lot of break up on this one.

I sold my Eminence GB12, but that was a real good mix of American and UK tones. The top is very glassy. Nice break up, but not too much. Does clean to high gain well, but best at mid to low gain.

I've tried a dozen or so brit speakers, those stand out.

rainbowgunshow
06-15-2010, 05:42 PM
Well, I primarily use an ES-335, so maybe alnico's would be a good consideration. Does anyone have any favorable experiences with british speakers in fender amps?

pula58
06-15-2010, 05:57 PM
I replaced the sterile K120s in my SF Twin with Eminence Tonkers, and never looked back. Sounded awesome!

That's funny, to me, the K-120's I have are the sweetest speakers I have ever used in a Fender blackface/silverface style amp.

I think we all hear things so differently! To each his (or her) own!

C'est La Tone

P.

Vibrolucky
06-15-2010, 06:06 PM
I used a pair of Celestion GT-75T speakers in my Bandmaster 2x12 piggyback combo for about 3 years before I sold it. Sounded like a Marshall JTM45.

Darth Tater
06-15-2010, 07:01 PM
Although that Weber combo is about as good as it gets, those speakers definitely will cost you that 'Fender' sound if that's important to you.

saltydogg
06-15-2010, 07:03 PM
i dont know. . . you may tear a hole in space/time thereby creating a vortex to another dimension.

good luck.

What he said. /\

rainbowgunshow
06-15-2010, 08:07 PM
Although that Weber combo is about as good as it gets, those speakers definitely will cost you that 'Fender' sound if that's important to you.

That's what I'm afraid of. I' rather eventually get a Vox for that tone, and have more options. The guy I'm talking to at Weber says I'll retain the Fender sound but with more of a mid presence.

FFTT
06-15-2010, 08:33 PM
If the Twin wasn't already a beast to haul, I'd load it with 1 EVM12L and 1 FANE AXA12,

Tripower455
06-15-2010, 09:52 PM
That's funny, to me, the K-120's I have are the sweetest speakers I have ever used in a Fender blackface/silverface style amp.

I think we all hear things so differently! To each his (or her) own!

C'est La Tone

P.

For sure!

To be fair, mine might've been a bit tired. I traded the amp off about 6 months ago, and included the JBLs, and the new owner still has the Tonkers in it.

Darth Tater
06-15-2010, 10:05 PM
That's what I'm afraid of. I' rather eventually get a Vox for that tone, and have more options. The guy I'm talking to at Weber says I'll retain the Fender sound but with more of a mid presence.

Well, maybe. The Silver Bell has very little..if any..sparkle and spank, but plenty of strong bottom end. The Dog has a very tight bottom end, LOTS of mids, and chimey highs. I run a Sig 10 next to my Silver Bell for when I want that Fender punch & sparkle (I do not run them together). I'll be upgrading that Sig to a 12F125A when budget allows though.

RussB
06-15-2010, 10:17 PM
I ran V30's in my '69 Twin. They were all that and a bag of chips.

My Bud fills his 2-12 Bassman cabs with V30's or the WGS Vet 30's

Prosonics, Dual Pro's and Tonemaster's were Celestion equipped right from the factory.

The secret's out, Celestion's are the BOMB in a Fender circuit

milk bone
06-15-2010, 10:25 PM
Currently running mine into a port city cab with a Reeves vintage purple (fane crecendo). It sounds freaking good.

FFTT
06-15-2010, 10:54 PM
Fanes have a great tight low end even when pushed, lots of crisp detail through the mids
and plenty of sparkle and chime on the top end but no harshness.

Darth Tater
06-16-2010, 05:19 AM
The secret's out, Celestion's are the BOMB in a Fender circuit

Dang. Imagine how much better a GOOD speaker would sound then :)

FFTT
06-16-2010, 05:50 AM
Dang. Imagine how much better a GOOD speaker would sound then :)

Rim shot! :-)

My neighbor had an original U.K. V-30 in his 65 DR and it was O.K. at low volume, but once you started pushing the amp it was ice picks even with
a well broken in original.

The new Chinese sweat shop V-30's might be worth about $29.00 each if that
bulk wholesale.

In a Weber British voiced speaker for a hi powered Twin, I would
go for a pair of their Fane Axis 12, FC12 or Thames.

In a real Fane, I'd go for either a pair of Medusa 150C's or a blend
of a Medusa with and AXA12.

The Studio 12 would be exceptional, but they weigh 17 pounds each.

Jon Silberman
06-16-2010, 06:12 AM
I replaced the sterile K120s in my SF Twin with Eminence Tonkers, and never looked back. Sounded awesome!
If you still have the "sterile K120s" and would like to sell them, PM me, please.

Jon Silberman
06-16-2010, 06:16 AM
There's British-voiced speakers and there's British-voiced speakers. In my Cage one-off BF Bandmaster 1X12 combo, I've tried a wide variety of speakers.

Pete Cage often says, "There's no bad speakers - only the wrong applications." This is true for almost any speaker (and user).

In my Cage BF BM, I tried, among many other speakers, a Scumback HP75 and a Weber Ceramic Blue Dog (30W). The Scumback is one of my fave speakers - sounds awesome with my Traynor YBA-1 - but it was uninspiring in the BF circuit amp. The Blue Dog, in contrast, sounds glorious in the Cage amp and that's where it'll stay.

gulliver
06-16-2010, 11:41 AM
I used a pair of Celestion GT-75T speakers in my Bandmaster 2x12 piggyback combo for about 3 years before I sold it. Sounded like a Marshall JTM45.

Funny, youer Fender sounds like a Marshall ... my Marshall sounds like a Fender. Amazing how much speakers make a difference, especially under lower or no gain.

last night I was comparing a Scumback H75 LHDC with a Fender branded Eminence, as stock in many fender black tolex amps. The voicing was actually quite similar, both somewhat in your face with a good amount of fullness throughout. The Eminebce is so much cleaner ... like turning an OD off when switching to it. The Scumbacks are surprisingly good for cleaner strat tones, I bought them for high gain.

When Brit speakers sound a little harsh with clean tones ... my theory is to add little more gain. My answer, go brit if you like more OD. Go American if you're a clean guy.

TYY
06-16-2010, 12:00 PM
Agreed about V30s. They sound great in a twin. I used to play in a rehearsal studio that had a non MV silver twin with V30s- killer amp. My '69 has JBLs fwiw. A very different but also great sound.

amc
06-16-2010, 12:24 PM
i still have an early allen tonesavor 80w/40w that david allen built with
a pair of english v30's. the v30s happen to sound great in this application
(though not my 1st choice for this amp)

erplander
06-16-2010, 01:05 PM
I expect that speaker combo would sound great in a twin. I run a ceramic blue dog/silver bell pair in a Germino cabinet with a Allen-mod Bassman head. The blackface channel of the amp sounds stellar with those speakers, and I would not agree that the BF Fender sound was lost. I use that channel for BF Fender cleans and get tones that compare well with BF combos I've had. Obviously a twin will not sound the same as my setup, but I think it could yield great results. Certainly worth trying, at any rate.

I'm a fan of British speakers with Fender-style amps. I've got a Music Man 2x12 that I'm thinking seriously about putting a pair of Tonkers in. I think that might sound great.

Balok
06-16-2010, 01:19 PM
If you want to save some cash, try replacing one of the k120s with a Fender Eminence, as found in the Hot Rod series. It's a darker speaker, and will roll off some brittleness.

Brit speakers are waay darker the the Fender spec speakers (oxford, Jensen, JBL, Utah etc) and will remove most of the chime.

Speaker design is the biggest factor in the difference in sound between Marshalls and Fenders IMO.

pula58
06-16-2010, 02:22 PM
If you still have the "sterile K120s" and would like to sell them, PM me, please.

hah!

A good K and/or D120-F is a thing of value, for sure!

The Alnico ones (the D and K) are not sterile at all (to my ear)., the E120 is stiffer for sure....I think it needs to be cranked a bit more...I have not yet had the chance to crank it yet (I just got one off the gearpage).....But the K and D series to me sound sweet and great with a Fender style (black or silverface) amp assuming moderate overdrive pedal use.

teXum
06-16-2010, 02:43 PM
I'm looking to get some new speakers in my '65 TRRI, so I asked the guys at Weber for some advice. With the info I gave them on what I was looking for, they recommended one ceramic blue dog and one ceramic silver bell. It sounds like it would help cut through mixes, eliminate some of the shrill high frequencies I get with the C12k's, etc... I was basically wondering if any of you have experimented with british speakers in Fender amps and if it had good results.

I think it would be helpful if you told excactly what it was you asked the Weber guys to change with your current setup.

IMO & IME such a swap would indeed negate much of the classic sound which I personally identify with the classic blackface twin sound.

I've tried a Celestion Blue in a SFDR, a DRRI and briefly in a TRRI (the 15 watt rating of the Blue made me only test clean sounds). I also had the blue in a Vicky V'Lux and 5112, and a greenback in the SFDR.

To me, the pronounced low mids of the Blue and GB congested too much of that frequency area, and made the Fender clean sounds boxy. Overdriven tones where better, and I liked the creaminess and the breakup of the Blue speaker, especially in the smaller amps (as they could in fact be overdriven without killing anyone in the room). But, to me, I was unable to get that speaker to work in any of the amps, do to the simple fact that the amps emitted to little of classic Fender tones.

If your goal is to simply attenuate some shrill high frequencies, I'd go with something like a Weber 12A150, had one in a SFDR, very warm and full sound. You also talk about cutting in a mix, but personally I think this is dependent on a lot of factors, among which I would say that speaker choice comes a bit later in the chain.

Someone here also talked favorably about V30s with Fenders. A friend had two in the mentioned 2*12 Tonemaster cabinet. Those speakers have a lot of upper mid content, to a degree where I'd call it more of a spike than a hump, and IMO that's not a good fit at all with Fenders of any style, and especially not blackfaces. Talk about shrillness! My friend used it with a '63 Bassman, and thankfully I got to order some Webers (12A125s) for him. A whole other deal.

Have you considered that it might in fact be the amp itself you are having issues with? The reissues are not quite the same thing as the blackface era ones, they sound harsher and stiffer from the beginning. Just a thought.