Listening to Music

[Redhouse-Blues]

I hear a lot of guy's saying to really listen to the music and soak it in, to play better. Tomo said in another thread to spend 2 or 3 months on one album. That really had me thinking, I listen to a lot of music, but it's during times I'm doing something else like working or driving or practicing.

What do you guy's think about this?

How do you listen to your music, to really soak it in and make it a part of you?

[Jeremy_Green]

I usually lift an album as I play along with it. I get the cords and riffs and gradually get more and more bits as i just relax and play through over time. I get most of the solo bits and work to figure out the tricky parts as I feel compelled to.

I find when i do this it really sinks in for me because i am listening so intently.

Albums usually grab me for weeks ... with other stuff interspersed of course. Although I usually go through genre phases. Where I only listen to similar artists for months at a time. So I do agree with Tomo.

If you really want to get a feel you gotta soak in it for some time. Party with it, relax with it, jam with it, expose your buddies to it. research it etc. Geez... after typing all this out it sounds like work .... But when I am into something most of this stuff just organically occurs.

I cant help myself.

[TrickyBoy]

I have a weird dichotomy in that I try to listen to and study lots of different genres of music, but at the same time, I play in a cheesy party band, so much of my playing each week is spent learning silly party tunes. And it puts me in a weird dilemma. I LOVE playing in the band I'm in. I've played out for 30 years and this is the most fun I've ever had (plus I'm starting to make a decent second income from it). BUT, taking a good percentage of my playing time each week and devoting it to lifting songs like "Living on a Prayer", "Sweet Child o Mine", "Sweet Caroline" and "Shout" has somewhat stagnated my playing.

Most of my time spent listening to what I would consider "more meaningful" music (at least in terms of my development as a player) is done in much the same way you discussed. While driving, or cleaning the house, etc.

I guess I have a choice to make, do I focus more on my personal development as a player or on the band's development. Right now, my attention is clearly more on the band than myself.

So I guess in a round about way, my answer to:

How do you listen to your music, to really soak it in and make it a part of you?is that right now I don't in the way that I should.

[JonR]

It depends. As a musician, you should certainly spend an appreciable amount of time listening attentively - doing nothing else at all, except maybe trying to play along or sing along. That's how you learn about music, after all.
But equally, at other times there's nothing wrong (and plenty right) about using music the way most non-musicians do, as background for other tasks.

Personally I find this really difficult. If music is on, I can't really concentrate on anything else. I have to listen to the music. That is, either I prefer to (if the task or conversation is boring), or I hate the music and have to turn it off for that reason. So if I'm working, or even just driving in the car, I tend not to listen to music at all. Either it's too distracting or (eg on a radio station) or too irritating if I don't like it. Same at parties: I'm anti-social because the music demands my whole attention, I can't easily talk or think about anything else when it's on (although that may be a reflection of how boring people at parties tend to be ;)).
Of course, even when I'm not hearing any music, it often goes through my head; and I tend to prefer it that way (at least I feel more in control of it ;)).
My gf - who is also a musician - thinks it's really odd that in the car I want to listen to news or documentary programmes rather than music, which always seems to me somehow annoyingly unsatisfactory. (99% of the music I hear on the radio, of any genre, is simply too predictable to be enjoyable. The exception would be rare early blues or rock'n'roll - which is on UK radio much less than 1% of the time. And I don't like putting CDs on because I've heard them all already. :rolleyes: Dammit, the only time I really like music is when I'm playing it!)

[Elektrik_SIxx]

I have a weird dichotomy in that I try to listen to and study lots of different genres of music, but at the same time, I play in a cheesy party band, so much of my playing each week is spent learning silly party tunes. And it puts me in a weird dilemma. I LOVE playing in the band I'm in. I've played out for 30 years and this is the most fun I've ever had (plus I'm starting to make a decent second income from it). BUT, taking a good percentage of my playing time each week and devoting it to lifting songs like "Living on a Prayer", "Sweet Child o Mine", "Sweet Caroline" and "Shout" has somewhat stagnated my playing.

Most of my time spent listening to what I would consider "more meaningful" music (at least in terms of my development as a player) is done in much the same way you discussed. While driving, or cleaning the house, etc.

I guess I have a choice to make, do I focus more on my personal development as a player or on the band's development. Right now, my attention is clearly more on the band than myself.

So I guess in a round about way, my answer to:

is that right now I don't in the way that I should.
Man! I could've written this post. I'm in exactly the same boat as you.

[gennation]

I used to post my "learning by Omosis" thing where I would listen to an album non-stop for months. And from it I would learn the style. A couple of examples:

I never really played any Vai except a couple of old David Lee Roth songs in the 80's. I never really listened to his music at all except for his first major album release. But a few years ago I was taking my son to see Vai and got his new album at the time to get familiar with the songs he would be playing that night. I listened to it for two months straight. The concert was REALLY good, and I ended up listening to it non-stop for about another 6 months or so...

by non-stop I mean while driving back and forth to work in the car or where ever else I drove.

One day I stumbled onto something while messing with the guitar. It sounded just like the Vai-vibe. So I pursued it, not by learning his stuff but by finding my way around what I was finding...the end result was this tune:

http://test.mikedodge.com/mvdmusic/MikeD/LimitedAbility_NotFinished.mp3

It took me about 3 weeks to get to the point of recording this and being able to improv like that unaccompanied section. I still had not learned ANY Vai off the album, just tried to cop the vibe.

So I tried the listening thing again, except this time with The Hot Club of San Francisco to cop some Gypsy Jazz vibe. I listened to one of their CD's for about 2-3 months and this was the result:

http://test.mikedodge.com/mvdmusic/MikeD/GypsyJazz.mp3

I stumbled on a couple of things after about a month or so. In the end I decided to take one of their songs and melodies and mold the things into it that I was finding.

Before all of this ever happened I had been listening to Kind of Blue for about a year and a half, I'm completely serious...I even had a 6 CD player in my car...I burned 6 CD's of Kind of Blue and just let them continuous play (so my player didn't burn out or mess up because only one slot would've been playing over and over). A LOT of stuff rubbed off. Unfortunate I don't have one recording that sums this up. But I ended up transcribing quite a bit of it...since I could hum or whistle it note for note it was pretty easy to pick things out. I knew a lot of the nuances and inflections like the back of my hand.

I pride myself on my ear, and I exercise it daily.

[Tomo]

I hear a lot of guy's saying to really listen to the music and soak it in, to play better. Tomo said in another thread to spend 2 or 3 months on one album. That really had me thinking, I listen to a lot of music, but it's during times I'm doing something else like working or driving or practicing.

What do you guy's think about this?

How do you listen to your music, to really soak it in and make it a part of you?


Thanks for making this thread from our discussion. I think you are way too smart! Think too much? When I graduated from Berklee... I got great music education and experience... but I noticed one thing was missing. "Blues feel" not how know how to play blues licks or phrases... that's anybody can do matter of time. I mean... how to play blues naturally. So I thought.... I got to work on listening!

Narrow down your blues records collection... You can listen to any artists you like.. but you want to listen same record over and over.. but not as background music. Let me put this way... If I have to use my hands, I don't listen to music. I need to concentrate. So I dedicated "Listening time" I learned a bit of this from Gene too.

So let me say... just do it and think later!

PS, I wish you can read my new book/CD "Playing by ear and feeling" (In Japanese). There is a section about "how to listen to music"
Tomo

[kush]

I occasionally keep the same CD in my car for extended listening times, sometimes weeks. If its something I like, I'll try to absorb it until its part of my internal sound track. I keep handy an A 440 Hz tuning fork that I can determine the key of the song, whether on a CD track or the radio, and visualize the arrangement parts in the correct Key using that as a reference. Sometimes I'll just relative-pitch the arrangement.
I love to listen just for the experience, but there's always some kind of analysis going on. I can't turn off the analysis part by now, and even Muzak in the elevator falls under scrutiny. I do ask the musical question "What would I play there?"

[dewey decibel]

I don't think it's a matter of how intensely you listen, I think it's about being an active listener when you do. You put yourself into the music, into the situation as if you were a player, and deconstruct things in that way. But it's not just from a guitar standpoint, but as if you were the drummer, the bassist, singer, etc as well. And beyond that the songwriter, producer, engineer, etc.

To understand how a drummer thinks you do have to spend sometime specifically listening to drummers and learning their roles. So that may take some intense listening, but the more musical components you work on the quicker you'll get at seeing how the whole thing is put together, like pieces in a puzzle. Once you get to this point it gets much, much easier to be an active listener, it requires less of you. For instance, I can be at a jazz club in mid conversation with a group of people and still know what chord they're on. It freaks people out because I'll start politely clapping all of a sudden and they don't know why, but as more people begin to clap they realize it's because the solo just ended. Of course I'm not picking up as much as I would if I were sitting there listening intently, but I'm still getting much more that most people.

As far as listening to only one album for a long period of time- meh. I don't think you get to decide what you soak in and be a part of you and what you don't. There's a song I heard a band in high school play live once, and it still haunts me. I only heard it that one time. And there's things that I've heard a million times that still don't stay with me. But I will say that when you get good at deconstructing music- and I don't just mean harmonically, everything else becomes a lot easier and happens a lot faster. Especially if you get out of your comfort zone. I got heavily into Jamaican music in my teens, and playing off the one, using lots of space, playing on the upbeats, etc was really hard at first. Then I got into jazz in school, and many of the kids my age had a really hard time with the phrasing, but since I had just spent a lot of time learning to play off the one I had a much quicker transition. I had a better sense of where things were, where the notes were in relation to the beat. I sort of think of it in spatial terms.

But if you love an album and that's all you want to listen to for a month, do it. I've done it. But I did it because it haunted me, I didn't have a choice. If you're simply trying to learn something, whether it's the style, vibe, feel or just simply the tune, I think active listening is what you want. And that means not just your part, learning your part will come a lot quicker when you know and understand all the others and can see the "big picture".

[dewey decibel]

I do ask the musical question "What would I play there?"


Exactly!

[Redhouse-Blues]

Thanks for the awesome replies!!! I think Tomo's right, I think to much and maybe Mike would agree. When I listen to music, I have it on shuffle because I own over 2000 albums. I have never really spent any set amount of time on one album. Maybe the feel I'm looking for, is going to come from listening more.

An album that really grabs me, is Ronnie Earl's Hope Radio, it's IT when it comes to Blues for me. I'm going to start spending some serious time with it and see what comes from it.

[Redhouse-Blues]

I used to post my "learning by Omosis" thing where I would listen to an album non-stop for months. And from it I would learn the style. A couple of examples:

I never really played any Vai except a couple of old David Lee Roth songs in the 80's. I never really listened to his music at all except for his first major album release. But a few years ago I was taking my son to see Vai and got his new album at the time to get familiar with the songs he would be playing that night. I listened to it for two months straight. The concert was REALLY good, and I ended up listening to it non-stop for about another 6 months or so...

by non-stop I mean while driving back and forth to work in the car or where ever else I drove.

One day I stumbled onto something while messing with the guitar. It sounded just like the Vai-vibe. So I pursued it, not by learning his stuff but by finding my way around what I was finding...the end result was this tune:

http://test.mikedodge.com/mvdmusic/MikeD/LimitedAbility_NotFinished.mp3

It took me about 3 weeks to get to the point of recording this and being able to improv like that unaccompanied section. I still had not learned ANY Vai off the album, just tried to cop the vibe.

So I tried the listening thing again, except this time with The Hot Club of San Francisco to cop some Gypsy Jazz vibe. I listened to one of their CD's for about 2-3 months and this was the result:

http://test.mikedodge.com/mvdmusic/MikeD/GypsyJazz.mp3

I stumbled on a couple of things after about a month or so. In the end I decided to take one of their songs and melodies and mold the things into it that I was finding.

Before all of this ever happened I had been listening to Kind of Blue for about a year and a half, I'm completely serious...I even had a 6 CD player in my car...I burned 6 CD's of Kind of Blue and just let them continuous play (so my player didn't burn out or mess up because only one slot would've been playing over and over). A LOT of stuff rubbed off. Unfortunate I don't have one recording that sums this up. But I ended up transcribing quite a bit of it...since I could hum or whistle it note for note it was pretty easy to pick things out. I knew a lot of the nuances and inflections like the back of my hand.

I pride myself on my ear, and I exercise it daily.

Wow, if that comes from listening like that, I'M SOLD!!!

Great playing Mike!!!

[CharAznable]

I'm a very active listener. I can't listen to music while doing something else.

[russintexas]

When I was transcribing a particular Grant Green solo, I clipped that 2 minutes from a recording, and recorded a CD with only that solo on it. 45 minutes to and from work, listening to the same 2 minutes over and over. I did this for around 2 months. I could sing it perfectly. And I sort of learned to play the solo, though some elements were beyond my meager skills.

I really should repeat that experiment. I just have too much music! I need to find just one thing to listen to. That'd make a great summer project.

[Tomo]

Thanks for the awesome replies!!! I think Tomo's right, I think to much and maybe Mike would agree. When I listen to music, I have it on shuffle because I own over 2000 albums. I have never really spent any set amount of time on one album. Maybe the feel I'm looking for, is going to come from listening more.

An album that really grabs me, is Ronnie Earl's Hope Radio, it's IT when it comes to Blues for me. I'm going to start spending some serious time with it and see what comes from it.

Thanks for your efforts. You have many things. Very good. Nothing wrong with that. If you like Ronnie Earl, then if I were you, I will look for Ronnie's influences and work on it. To me that's fastest way and it's very productive. You should feel you are improving every 6 months, defintely every year. That's great about this instrument. You can improve more and more. but it's so easy to just jam. Try to look at think from different angle. That's all you need to do. You got everything you need. Just matter of how to deliver it.

I have big positive hope for you!

Lightnin' Hopkins.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnVIbWTbisc

SRV blues feel to Joe Pass jazz blues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiRcgO6laUc

My way to mix blues and jazz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FlBkOHpla8

Tomo

[Jasco]

How do you listen to your music, to really soak it in and make it a part of you?


Simple answer, but long process:

Transcribe it (by ear, write it down note-for-note in standard notation), then learn to play it, then forget it.

[stupidmunkey214]

I've went through all phases of it. Listen while driving, don't listen while working, and every combination between. But for the past couple of years I've grown into a much more pleasurable state of listening.

I try to soak up as much of the little nuances and big musical statements in every way possible: Listen to a certain playlist while winding down and going to bed, and keeping enough music on the playlist to hopefully last into or through REM sleep. I like to burn CD's that fit that specific day's mood and where my heart/head is at the time.

It's hard to do most work while listening to music, but it can really be a good thing sometimes to have some music in the background while your focus is 85% elsewhere. Just let it soak in by indirectly listening, almost subconsciously.

When I was 18 I was working for a carpenter who wouldn't listen to music on the job. As much as it made my day drag out without music, that was the period where I started to figure out songs in my head by just playing that internal radio, and visualizing the chords/bends/note placement. I still can't read music, but I can visualize so many things from just being bored at work and letting my mind get to what really mattered to me.

Other than that, I just try to always have some sort of music, no matter what the genre, playing around me. And one other thing that greatly helped me was getting to know the best players of each instrument I played with. All the while taking as much of their music that moves them from their collection and listen to whatever grabs me, and to let that new avenue spawn a completely new musical branch for my own self, and sharing what moves me with them at the same time. After a while, I found myself turning people who were heavily into Micheal Brecker onto Howling Wolf, and in return they brought me to the genius of a Brian Blade.

[torquil]

It is also possible to do well with no access to recorded performances (e.g. Bach, Beethoven, Mozart).

I listen much less to music nowadays. Instead I prefer to imagine music in my head, in many situations where before I would listen to other music.

[KRosser]

I listen to music very actively, sometimes a single record or even single piece or song over and over for a long period of time.

Some times I listen inactively, while I'm doing something else.

Sometimes I listen very analytically; it's also very easy for me to let that go and just let it wash over me.

And sometimes I love silence, to listen to the music in my head or that's ambient in my environment.

It's always been that way.

Sometimes I think I became a musician because of how I listened to music, not the other way around.

[Tomo]

I listen to music very actively, sometimes a single record or even single piece or song over and over for a long period of time.

Some times I listen inactively, while I'm doing something else.

Sometimes I listen very analytically; it's also very easy for me to let that go and just let it wash over me.

And sometimes I love silence, to listen to the music in my head or that's ambient in my environment.

It's always been that way.

Sometimes I think I became a musician because of how I listened to music, not the other way around.

Well said Ken. Thanks for your input.

<<And sometimes I love silence, to listen to the music in my head or that's ambient in my environment.>>

That what I enjoy the most.

Tomo

[gennation]

Another listening activity I've done is...

my favorite song is the jazz pop classic Night & Day. I made a CD of about 15 different versions of the song (Stan Getz/Bill Evans, Sinatra, Django, Ella, Pass, Norvo Trio/Farlow, Dizzy, and many many more).

I listened to that CD for about 3 months. I have such a broad scope of managing that tune now. For this I did a lot of transcribing. I have sheets and sheets of transcribed stuff from horns, guitar, piano, vocals, etc, etc...

Also...

Since my gig consists of learning a bunch of tunes, performing them, then learn a while new set of tunes for the next gig, I will accumulate all the for tunes on a CD and listen to them over and over in car. I'll do this all through the learning and rehearsal process. I've been doing to since I could put songs from records onto a tape cassette.

[chopsley]

And sometimes I love silence, to listen to the music in my head or that's ambient in my environment.


Silence is underrated.

[Redhouse-Blues]

I'm loving this, since I posted this thread last week, I have seen something cool come out of it. I have a few songs I needed to learn for my band. I started listening to them every chance I get, taking time with no guitar to just listen. Even at night listening as I go to bed and leaving it playing as I fall asleep. When I go to pick up the guitar and learn the song, it's easier, my hands are almost playing it with out even knowing it yet. I'm even humming them in the shower or at other times. I learned a lesson, if you really want to play it, just listen.

[TrickyBoy]

I'm loving this, since I posted this thread last week, I have seen something cool come out of it. I have a few songs I needed to learn for my band. I started listening to them every chance I get, taking time with no guitar to just listen. Even at night listening as I go to bed and leaving it playing as I fall asleep. When I go to pick up the guitar and learn the song, it's easier, my hands are almost playing it with out even knowing it yet. I'm even humming them in the shower or at other times. I learned a lesson, if you really want to play it, just listen.

I do this quite a bit. If I'm going to learn a tune, I listen to it quite a bit without my guitar (even if it's just driving in the car), before trying to figure it out. In general, if I get to the point where I can sing a part, I can lift it.

[JonR]

Silence is underrated.Indeed...

"Before you speak, ask yourself: is it kind, is it necessary, is it
true, does it improve on the silence?" - Sai Baba

"Try as we may, we cannot make a silence." - John Cage.

"Take the horn outa your f****** mouth" - Miles Davis to John Coltrane.
:D