Would you buy a higher mileage car with performance mods?

[S-L-A-C-K-E-R]

So, I'm looking for a used car. Something relatively cheap to drive to and from work that is going to also be fun to drive and have plenty of room for a couple kids when necessary.

I found a Subaru Legacy GT (one of the cars on my list of possibilities) with 75,000 miles. It's in my price range but it has all these mods on it. I'm not a tuner and I really don't care about that stuff necessarily. I just like to have a car with a bit of a kick to it. I don't like to mess with it other than normal maintenence. I'm a "get in and go, no muss / no fuss" kind of car owner.

So, anywho. Any of you guys who are into this stuff, are any of these mods listed in the classified something that I should be concerned about? I'm normally very cautious of cars that have been tuned. I don't want to inherit someone elses car problems that arose from messing around with stuff they shouldn't have been messing with in the first place. I don't want to end up with a car that craps out on me early because it's been pumping out more power than it was designed to handle.

Here's the mods:

Cobb Tunning Full Stainless Steel 3 inch Turbo-Back Exhaust System
-Downpipe , cat, midpipe, y pipe, mufflers
-high flow cat
-dual rear exit mufflers
-all stainless steel construction

Cobb Tunning SF Intake System with Heatshield/Airbox
-reusable K&N style filter
-metal constructed airbox

Cobb Tunning Access Port Tuner
-tune/flash different maps to the ECU (performance, economy, ect)
-data log engine/car data
-realtime monitor of engine/car stats
-reads and clears check engine lights

Cobb Tunning Stainless Steel Radiator Shroud

Cobb Tunning Stainless Steel Turbo Heat Shield

Megan Racing Stainless Steel Up-Pipe
-flexpipe to avoid cracking
-catless to avoid damage to turbo
-higher flow

Go Fast Bits (GFB) Hybrid Blow Off Valve
-adjustable (full recirculate, full atmosphere, 50/50)

Low-Beam HID conversion
-DDM Digital Ballast
-5000K color (superwhile with hint of blue)

Front Lower Control Arm Rear Bushings Replaced With Polyurethane equivalents plus Caster Kit (Whiteline Subaru Legacy GT Anti-Dive / Caster Kits)

Sunpro Boost Gage
-mounted in dash cubby

Optima Redtop Dry Cell Battery

[MudPies]

It would depend on the skill of the person who actually did the work.

For example, would you rather have me modify your TS9 (knowing the most I've done is a rewire job with new pots and pickups in a frankenstrat) or Analog.Man? Would you buy a mod'd TS9 that you knew I modified?

[ecvMatt]

4x4/off road/older toyota with 20R or 22R/RE engine=yes, street=no

but that is based more on my experience and knowledge of mods, not the car itself.

[Ryan]

Those are all great mods for that car. The only concern I would have is the tuning. If it's got a bad tune (I'd be more concerned about too lean), it'll cook. Does he have dynos?

[fetishfrog]

I wouldn't be so concerned about the mods as I would be that the car may have been used for street racing, thereby stressing the car more than the 75,000 average. If the car hadn't been raced and the mods were well done, it wouldn't bother me.

[S-L-A-C-K-E-R]

Does he have dynos?

He didn't mention it in the ad. I haven't contacted him yet about it either. I'm not going to bother him unless I'm feeling serious about pursuing the car.

[harmonicator]

The high flow cats would be a problem in CA come smog time possibly. Not sure where you are.

Sounds like an enthusiast probably owned it. Probably a nice vehicle. Ask where he got the work done, have it inspected, etc.

[bobcs71]

Those are all great mods for that car. The only concern I would have is the tuning. If it's got a bad tune (I'd be more concerned about too lean), it'll cook. Does he have dynos?

Yes, I'd be concerned about the tune on a turbo car too. I'd really look at the condition of the car. Sometimes a modified car is owned by someone who goes above & beyond the normal maintenance while a non-modded family car could be owned by someone who didn't want to be bothered with having the oil changed.

[pmcqueen]

most of these are pretty simple mods. exhaust/intake/ecu are pretty much the norm. I have messed around with a few STis with cobb parts and have been impressed with the quality/ease of install and use of their products.

fyi, it's probably going to be decently obnoxious with full 3" exhaust. luckily he retained mufflers/cats, but I had straight 3" exhaust from the turbo back on my rx-7 (two mufflers and a fart can, no cat) and you could hear me coming from easily two miles away.

you can pretty much guarantee that if you raise the boost, you'll decrease the engine life. that's just how it goes. the trick is finding the best medium.. long life, increased performance. in this car's case (I'm not a subi expert), its reliability is probably not comprimised too much based on the listed mods. how you drive it will also play a huge part in how long it lasts.. it's temping to floor it and redline every gear when it sounds cool/goes fast, but you'll end up causing more problems this way as well.

make sure the mods were installed by a reputable shop. if he did the installs himself, make sure he sounds like he knows what he's talking about (if he starts spouting bullshit about how it's the fastest car on the road or how he was stomping on 'vettes, stay away. guarantee you he didn't treat the car well).

good luck. modding is addicting, you'll end up with no money to fund music gear purchases, trust me. :)

edit: the tune is not as big a deal on plug and play piggyback ecu's. these fuel/ignition maps have been specifically made for the car and in that case are most likely fine. if you're concerned, buy a wideband air/fuel ratio monitor and a knock sensor, if you're really concerned an egt gauge wouldn't hurt. the cobb may have these built in, but it might utilize a narrowband afr monitor.. you really need the wideband for accurate monitoring. if you notice any pinging/knocking, you'll want to back off the timing (which you should be able to do through the cobb piggyback) and boost immediately. not sure what the target afr for these cars is, but I would imagine in the 11.5-13 range at all times, never above/below that. if it's higher than 13, it's running too lean and you risk detonation. if it's running too rich, you'll just mow through spark plugs and the car won't run well.

[Ryan]

If he has dyno sheets and the AFRs are good, I wouldn't be scared.

[Doodad]

I would not buy any car that I did not mod myself. Even stock, a high performance car invites abuse and I would not trust the former owner. Careful scrutiny by a good shop would be the order of the day.

[brett s]

Me personally, no - knowing quite a bit about turbo 2.5 Subarus (having owned a couple) & how easy it is to kill one if the tune isn't right.

Seeing a BOV on that level of tune is a clue, that was there just for the noise...

[S-L-A-C-K-E-R]

Already, I'm starting to go :huh with all the lingo you guys are throwing around. I'm pretty green to this tuning stuff. I know what a dyno is ... I guess that's a start. It's not that I don't like this stuff. I just never had the time or money to get into it. I almost started when I had my mustang, but I always had more pressing things for my money to go to.

Would it be a bad idea to buy this car without knowing this stuff? Do these mods need some level of regular interaction / maintenence that requires some knowledge or are they pretty much just going to be ok if left alone (other than if a problem comes up)?

[bobcs71]

Already, I'm starting to go :huh with all the lingo you guys are throwing around. I'm pretty green to this tuning stuff. I know what a dyno is ... I guess that's a start. It's not that I don't like this stuff. I just never had the time or money to get into it. I almost started when I had my mustang, but I always had more pressing things for my money to go to.

Would it be a bad idea to buy this car without knowing this stuff? Do these mods need some level of regular interaction / maintenence that requires some knowledge or are they pretty much just going to be ok if left alone (other than if a problem comes up)?

The concern mentioned was if the car is running "lean". Lean means the amount of fuel is lower than it should be for the air/fuel mix going into the engine.
Most mods won't require additional maintenance. The nice thing about that car is I'm sure there is a local Subaru group that would be happy to help you out. Where I live even the dealership is involved in modifications to Subarus.
I have & enjoy driving a '09 Legacy (non-turbo).

[pmcqueen]

dynamometer is a method of determining horsepower/torque at the wheels. it's not really necessary, though, and honestly, I find dyno tuning to be a comprimise (where someone sits in the car while doing dyno pulls and adjusts fuel/ignition maps on the fly to get the best performance/drivability). street tuning is much more reliable and translates better to real-world driving (because when you actually are driving your car, you're not spinning in place). I always recommend street tuning (if you can do it safely, that is the key) over dyno tuning. your car can be tuned perfectly on the dyno and then have little quirks on the road that would have been much easier to diagnose and fix if you had street tuned in the first place.

most of these mods are pretty basic. sounds like a lot if you're unfamiliar with modding, but it boils down mainly to exhaust/intake/ecu (and a piggyback ecu at that, not a full standalone which requires a lot of time and money to tune properly) and a couple of suspension mods.. nothing earth shattering or really even detrimental to the car's reliability. the tweaks that will have been made to the fuel and ignition maps will be subtle enough that they shouldn't affect reliability very much, if at all. the way it was driven is much more important.. if the guy has been ragging on it for 75k, it might not be a wise purchase.

what I'd suggest is if you purchase the car, become a member of a Subi forum. you'll most likely be fine. read a little bit about the mods that have been done so you can figure out why they were done. pay attention to your gauges (specifically water temp, boost, air/fuel ratio if you have access to it) and become acquainted with what they should be like so you can quickly figure out if something is going wrong and stop driving before it goes from a tuning issue to a blown engine. when you start driving modded turbo cars, you become a lot more in tune with your driving experience.. it's actually a lot of fun. just know when to stop, because you can spend some serious money modding/fixing these cars if you get in too deep.

[Jon C]

No. Not in this case ... Subie turbos don't seem particularly robust to me and adding those mods and the likely way it was driven to the mix, I would not be interested in that car.

[stratman34]

Already, I'm starting to go :huh with all the lingo you guys are throwing around. I'm pretty green to this tuning stuff. I know what a dyno is ... I guess that's a start. It's not that I don't like this stuff. I just never had the time or money to get into it. I almost started when I had my mustang, but I always had more pressing things for my money to go to.

Would it be a bad idea to buy this car without knowing this stuff? Do these mods need some level of regular interaction / maintenence that requires some knowledge or are they pretty much just going to be ok if left alone (other than if a problem comes up)?

If the engine tuning is good, then I wouldn't worry about the mods. Nothing there besides knowing how to wash and re-oil a K&N air filter should be much of a problem.

I would be far more worried about the owner and how he took care of/drove the car in general. It's all about WHO owned it, not about what was done to it.

Take as example a modifed LS1 Camaro that a friend of mine owned. He works sales and promotions for one of the best speed shops in DFW. One of his previous cars made an issue of GM Performance Tech magazine. He changed the oil way more than necessary, refused to drive the car in the rain, and often sat in the living room with one of the wheels, polishing the chrome while he watched TV. He cleaned the car regularly with a toothbrush, including the undercarriage (not kidding!). All mods on the car were researched, planned, professionally installed, then un-installed if there was any hint they weren't going to perform as intended.

Then take a a different friend who took care of nothing in his life had a LS1 with a similar list of mods/parts. His car was a hodgepodge of owner/amature installs and was generally a mess.

They would read similar in a sales ad... which would you rather buy? :huh

[S-L-A-C-K-E-R]

I decided to contact the guy and ask about the car.

He doesn't have any dyno data. Apparently it is just an off the shelf Cobb stage 2 mod and he pointed me to the Cobb website to get generic maps.

He hasn't taken the car to the track or anything. It's just his daily driver.

Him and his "mechanic friends" installed the mods.

I'm still a little uneasy about it. I might just ditch the idea.

Here's two other options I'm looking at.
1.) a completely stock 2007 VW GTI (4 door) that has 49500 miles on it.
2.) a completely stock 2007 Honda Civic SI (4 door) that has 61,000 miles on it.

Either that or I might just abandon the whole sport sedan/hatchback thing and get a used ford escape or nissan xterra or some other small SUV with a V6. That might be a bit fun to run around in.

[stratman34]

Here's two other options I'm looking at.
1.) a completely stock 2007 VW GTI (4 door) that has 49500 miles on it.
2.) a completely stock 2007 Honda Civic SI (4 door) that has 61,000 miles on it.

Either that or I might just abandon the whole sport sedan/hatchback thing and get a used ford escape or nissan xterra or some other small SUV with a V6. That might be a bit fun to run around in.

It's hard to beat the 4 door SI Civic, I'd pick that over a VW anyday. I also had an Escape for a while, and suprisingly I liked it a lot.

[NuSkoolTone]

My first instinct is "No". However it's obvious that guy dropped some coin on that car. Depends on the person and how he ran it I guess.

The question is this: If you car about the mods (Like them), would they cost more or less than a possible repair if something's screwy? If More than the repair, You're ahead. Less than it's a headache.

If you're serious, I'd have someone who knows how to tune look at the car and see if they can spot problems.

[S-L-A-C-K-E-R]

It's hard to beat the 4 door SI Civic, I'd pick that over a VW anyday. I also had an Escape for a while, and suprisingly I liked it a lot.

The GTI is gone anyway. I just contacted the owner.

I'm going to have to test drive the Civic SI. It seems to get very mixed reviews. I've heard good and bad things about it's performance. Some people seem to be a bit disappointed in it. I guess it's all personal taste. I really need to give it a try and decide for myself.

The escape seems to get great reviews all around. It would definitely help with the snow around here. Plus, it would be nice to switch it up a bit. I drive a mazda 3s right now. So an SUV would be a change of pace. It sounds like the V6 has plenty of giddy-up too. I'm going to have to test drive one of them as well.

[stratman34]

I'm going to have to test drive the Civic SI. It seems to get very mixed reviews. I've heard good and bad things about it's performance. Some people seem to be a bit disappointed in it. I guess it's all personal taste. I really need to give it a try and decide for myself.

For a 4-door, it may seem a bit sluggish to the tuning crowd. And most of the reviews I've read are sport-tuning aficios that are "a little picky" on a sedan. Yeah, it isn't a GSR Integra. Also, a few peeps said it took a while to get used to the drive by wire steering and it's lack of "feedback" from road conditions. Not bad, just different for most folks.

[saijo]

AWD>FWD

[S-L-A-C-K-E-R]

For a 4-door, it may seem a bit sluggish to the tuning crowd. And most of the reviews I've read are sport-tuning aficios that are "a little picky" on a sedan..

That's kind of what I was thinking. Since I really don't fall into the tuning crowd / category, I might really like it. I don't really need a speed demon or anything. I just like something that is sporty and has a bit more life to it than the typical family sedan.

[ACfixer]

I feel strongly that the best cars to buy are low mileage cars with zero mods outside of perhaps rims and tires and maybe an exhaust/intake upgrade.

[sws1]

In theory, I would consider a car with mods.

This car??? I'd pass.

My guess is that he drove the car hard, and overly stressed it. That's not a car that's built for the track, and so anyone driving it very hard on the street very much accelerated it's age.

If it was a 911, or exotic built for racing, I'd be less concerned.

[Luke]

The term that comes to mind is, "rode hard hung up wet".

So no.

[panoramic]

absolutely not

[brlfq]

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO NO, NO, NO NO, NO, NO NO, NO, NO NO, NO, NO NO, NO, NO NO, NO, NO NO, NO, N!

Performance mods are done to cars to make them go faster. PERIOD. You don't do that stuff to take the kids to the pool. The car has been raced and raced hard. You'll regret it.

[Blindspot]

That car is all done. I have yet to meet a modded car that hasn't been pretty well thrashed, especially the cheaper cars like Subarus and Mitsus. Mods allow a car to go beyond it's tested capabilities, and while many cars can handle the additional hp, torque, and suspension stresses, it wears them down, fast.

Yes, my car is modded.

[HEY!YOU!]

I like all those mods.

I took my Tacoma at 50,000 miles and did suspension, TRD headers, TRD cat. back exhaust, TRD Supercharger, cold air intake. Couple other tweeks.

I'm at 245,000 miles.

Changed the clutch a while back. That's it.

[FeloniousBishop]

Money pit

Stay clear

[SLBlues]

I'm a "get in and go, no muss / no fuss" kind of car owner.


That car is not for you! Def not a "get in and go, no muss/no fuss kind of car"

[pixelchemist]

honestly every car i have ever owned has been tuned... but if you are NOT an enthusiast that is the wrong car for you... tuned cars require tuned car maintenance and with those mods that's going to be quite a loud car.

[Targ]

No, performance mods = hard life.
High miles means long hard life <or> worn out.

[MGuts]

I would not buy any car with mods done to it. When people mod their car, they end up beating the shit out of it. Especially with the high miles, I wouldn't want a car that was beat on.