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ChorusCrackpot
07-24-2010, 04:21 PM
There has been word of the Suhr Bella Chorus which was rumoured to be out at the mid-year NAMM, and said to have a tri-stereo chorus mode.

I have also seen note of Fromel Electronics considering on cloning the Dyno-My-Piano Tri-Stereo Chorus into a pedal.

Are there still plans to bring this to fruition?

ChorusCrackpot
07-25-2010, 05:01 AM
Are there?

Guitar Josh
07-25-2010, 07:25 AM
Maybe contact those builders directly?

jfromel
07-26-2010, 12:47 AM
Anyone want to loan me their tri-stereo for a few weeks? I have always wanted to take this project on but can't my hands on one.

ChorusCrackpot
07-27-2010, 01:32 AM
Anyone want to loan me their tri-stereo for a few weeks? I have always wanted to take this project on but can't my hands on one.

Hehe, in fact John it was your thread on another forum from two years ago, that I just saw the other day and what inspired this thread. ;)


There is a bloke named John (John Ou, posts as "andergtr") at the Huge Racks Inc. forum, that owns an original Dyno My Piano Tri-Stereo Chorus/Splitter 618, the earlier version. It has been written that it sounds the best of the three tri-stereo units released, the other being the 'Dytronics' CS-5 Tri-Stereo Chorus/Splitter, and 'Songbird' 1380S (all by DMP). Also to note that Mike Landau uses the 618 version. John bought the 618 from another HRI member called Phil ("PhilC"). I actually have some clips of that particular unit that Phil recorded and sent to me as per my request.

If you like I can contact them or at least bring your request to their attention. Actually I might just write up a post there now asking if anyone rents them out. Although they might be biased towards Suhr since they are all leaning towards the Bella Chorus fulfilling their rack-tri-stereo pipe dreams at the moment! who knows....

Melodic Dreamer
07-27-2010, 07:55 AM
The thing I'm interested in about the Bella Chorus is the Tri-Stero Mode and the Leslie sim function.

JoeyHarley
07-27-2010, 09:18 AM
does tri stereo mean it outputs to left/center/right?

jfromel
07-27-2010, 07:25 PM
From what I have read it sounds like the Shur chrous will be a good competitor to the Strymon Ola - I have two Strymons but have yet to hear their chorus (can't really bring myself to put someone elses chorus on my board. However if their chorus sounds as analog as their delay does then it will sound great.

The Ola has a multi-mode - not sure if that's a dual delay line (like a DC-2, SDD-320, or my Seraph) or if it's a tri stereo mode. Perhaps Terry will chime in.

Guitar Josh
07-27-2010, 07:34 PM
does tri stereo mean it outputs to left/center/right?

No.

DANOCASTER
07-27-2010, 07:45 PM
does tri stereo mean it outputs to left/center/right?

Nope..

I had the Songbird TSC for about 7 yrs in my old bradshaw rig.. It has a single rate knobs and L/C/R depth controls. When I was in my "Huff / Landau worship mode" I used it constantly. I've never heard anything that quite sounds like it ( including the TC 1210 ).. if you're after THOSE session guy's chorus tone - all ya gotta do is turn it on ;)

Bobby D
07-27-2010, 07:48 PM
as a chorus aficionado, and having owned and operated the TC 1210 back when it came out (traded a nice GUITAR for that sucker when it was released) - all i can say is that i can't WAIT to hear what John Suhr is cooking up :love:

i have played thru a tri-stereo chorus, but have not been lucky enough to own one.

the tC1210, when split into stereo, is a thing of beauty.

:bow

Melodic Dreamer
07-27-2010, 11:34 PM
as a chorus aficionado, and having owned and operated the TC 1210 back when it came out (traded a nice GUITAR for that sucker when it was released) - all i can say is that i can't WAIT to hear what John Suhr is cooking up :love:

i have played thru a tri-stereo chorus, but have not been lucky enough to own one.

the tC1210, when split into stereo, is a thing of beauty.

:bow


But the Dyno-My-Piano Tri-Stereo Chorus 618 is the holy grail if I'm not mistaken.

zachman
07-28-2010, 01:28 AM
But the Dyno-My-Piano Tri-Stereo Chorus 618 is the holy grail if I'm not mistaken.

They're just different, but I do use the Tri-chorus patch on my Eventide all the time in combination with the 1210 for some nice tones.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee118/zachman_photos/My%20Guitar%20gear/Picture016.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee118/zachman_photos/My%20Guitar%20gear/DSC01813.jpg

One day I'll get me a TSC, to add to the stable.

ChorusCrackpot
08-06-2010, 12:02 AM
But the Dyno-My-Piano Tri-Stereo Chorus 618 is the holy grail if I'm not mistaken.

Indeed it is, yet often the big rack session guys used micro-pitch shifting with Eventide Harmonisers and Yamaha SPX-90s as well as those Lexicon reverb units, plus also the compression & EQ and those twangy modified Strats....so sometimes I wonder if the Tri-Stereo Chorus unit is actually even contributing much to that famed chorus sound....

I think the special thing about the Tri-Stereo, is that even when on a slow rate, it has this special "rippling" sound to it, the sound actually feels like water rippling up and down and side to side, rather than just a thin sound wave pitching up and down. When you turn the rate down, the sound starts panning left and right.



There's a demo video on YouTube of the Dytronics version, where the "Chorus 1" Right channel doesn't sound chorusy on its own, but the "Chorus 2" and "Chorus 3" (centre and left respectively) do....? Is that just a mix thing?

ChorusCrackpot
08-06-2010, 12:04 AM
They're just different, but I do use the Tri-chorus patch on my Eventide all the time in combination with the 1210 for some nice tones.

How do they differ?

ChorusCrackpot
08-06-2010, 12:58 AM
From what I have read it sounds like the Shur chrous will be a good competitor to the Strymon Ola - I have two Strymons but have yet to hear their chorus (can't really bring myself to put someone elses chorus on my board. However if their chorus sounds as analog as their delay does then it will sound great.

The Ola has a multi-mode - not sure if that's a dual delay line (like a DC-2, SDD-320, or my Seraph) or if it's a tri stereo mode. Perhaps Terry will chime in.


I haven't heard of the Ola, or even Strymon in fact. I'll have to check them out.


Are you still considering on cloning the Tri-Stereo?



I wonder if it's possible to have three delay lines each with their own LFO, but where the central LFO has a sine wave and the left & right LFOs are trapezoidal? And that each delay line has its own rate, width, and delay time controls?

ChorusCrackpot
08-06-2010, 05:16 PM
From what I have read it sounds like the Shur chrous will be a good competitor to the Strymon Ola - I have two Strymons but have yet to hear their chorus (can't really bring myself to put someone elses chorus on my board. However if their chorus sounds as analog as their delay does then it will sound great.

The Ola has a multi-mode - not sure if that's a dual delay line (like a DC-2, SDD-320, or my Seraph) or if it's a tri stereo mode. Perhaps Terry will chime in.


Well, going by this feedback, I hope the Suhr Bella is not at all like the Ola.....


I've had all the strymon pedals with the exception of the compressor, dug them all, except the Ola. just sounded anemic and weak to me. not warm at all but rather cold and sterile. didn't regret selling it at all.
I'm not a big fan of chorus/leslie, etc. type "sounds" to begin with but the Analogman chorus would be the one for me. extremely warm and lush. very inspiring to play.
I ended up having to sell the brig. and blue sky to pay off some bills, but will no doubt end up buying them again.
Have a Capistan on the way.
dig the strymon line, but that chorus was "blah".....IMHO.

zachman
09-14-2010, 02:20 PM
How do they differ?

Bottom line is-- they (The 1210 and Tri-Stereo Chorus), sound different.
A LOT different. Tonally, texturally, and spatial expansiveness.

zachman
09-14-2010, 02:25 PM
I haven't heard of the Ola, or even Strymon in fact. I'll have to check them out.


Are you still considering on cloning the Tri-Stereo?



I wonder if it's possible to have three delay lines each with their own LFO, but where the central LFO has a sine wave and the left & right LFOs are trapezoidal? And that each delay line has its own rate, width, and delay time controls?

why not?

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee118/zachman_photos/My%20Guitar%20gear/Picture016.jpg

rsm
09-14-2010, 04:01 PM
TC Electronic Nova Modulator has a tri-chorus. Worth a look IMO.

kiki_90291
09-14-2010, 04:06 PM
M13/M9 has one, although I don't care for it.

ChorusCrackpot
10-03-2010, 01:10 AM
why not?

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee118/zachman_photos/My%20Guitar%20gear/Picture016.jpg

wow!!

zachman
10-04-2010, 02:46 AM
wow!!

:rotflmao

ChorusCrackpot
10-18-2010, 05:39 AM
TC Electronic Nova Modulator has a tri-chorus. Worth a look IMO.

But wouldn't that be more like running three TC choruses at the same time? Technically a "tri-chorus" but not the same tone & texture. Zachman just said the TC style chorus and Dyno My Piano chorus sound a lot different to each other.

ChorusCrackpot
11-02-2010, 02:58 AM
So is there anything new about this Bella chorus?

Melodic Dreamer
11-02-2010, 07:29 AM
I would love to have an update on this one.

hdahs143
11-02-2010, 11:35 AM
I thought Fulltone was working on a Trichorus clone/reissue at one time?

Fred Farkus
11-02-2010, 12:07 PM
http://line6.com/tonecore/images/pedals/spaceChorus.gif

http://l6c.lcdn.line6.net/media/tonecore/SC%20Tri_Warm.mp3

http://l6c.lcdn.line6.net/media/tonecore/SC%20Tri_Bright.mp3

ChorusCrackpot
11-12-2010, 08:54 PM
^^ Thanks for the clips, I will check them out later.

Whalestone
11-13-2010, 03:39 AM
I thought Fulltone was working on a Trichorus clone/reissue at one time?

Correct. According to Fulltone the project was temporarily scrapped 5/13/08 due to lack of interest.

ChorusCrackpot
12-03-2010, 07:45 AM
Correct. According to Fulltone the project was temporarily scrapped 5/13/08 due to lack of interest.

I think it's permanently scrapped.

sanhozay
12-03-2010, 08:28 AM
Waiting on Suhr, waiting on Fuller. I feel completely abandoned; footprints in the sand...

ChorusCrackpot
12-05-2010, 01:25 PM
I tried to replicate a tri-stereo chorus today. Details to come.

Meanwhile here's a video clip with awful audio quality.....done at midnight too so unfortunately I couldn't open the amps up much.

NAEysvIxjOY

Ed Reed
12-05-2010, 01:32 PM
Look I'm nobody but I've heard a rumor that a guy who posts here who does some killer product demos has something along this very line in his possession giving it a go over maybe helping with the final tweek? Maybe this means it is about to be released soon?

Take what I said with a grain of salt as I am nobody.

ChorusCrackpot
12-05-2010, 01:39 PM
Look I'm nobody but I've heard a rumor that a guy who posts here who does some killer product demos has something along this very line in his possession giving it a go over maybe helping with the final tweek? Maybe this means it is about to be released soon?

Take what I said with a grain of salt as I am nobody.

You're not a nobody- you are Jakeddy of TGP Forums.

Ed Reed
12-05-2010, 01:54 PM
Sad to say in my case that only means I have enough money to buy a lot of the gear discussed here and enough time on my hands to post my thoughts about it.

Only time will tell if what I heard pans out to be what I and you both hope it is.

ChorusCrackpot
12-05-2010, 07:07 PM
Sad to say in my case that only means I have enough money to buy a lot of the gear discussed here and enough time on my hands to post my thoughts about it.

Only time will tell if what I heard pans out to be what I and you both hope it is.

So what gear are you talking about? The Suhr Bella?

ChorusCrackpot
12-07-2010, 12:31 AM
Does anyone know what the Delay Time/s value/s were of the Tri-Stereo Chorus?

ChorusCrackpot
12-09-2010, 12:23 AM
Please, does anyone know the delay times of it? I have a feeling each delay line in the Tri-Stereo is different.

andergtr
02-21-2011, 12:25 PM
the tri-stereo sounds nothing like the 1210, which sounds nothing like any of other chorus units out there. the 1210 has a wide spread that sounds huge. lots of guys take the feed from the preamp and go directly to the 1210 in series. then it gets split into a mixer where you would add in other choruses such as the tri and perhaps some pitch from an eventide.

i'll have to do some clips, but there is this inherent "wobble," for lack of a better term, that the tri-stereo has.

nothing else gets it. there are things that try to get close, but the tri is in a league all its own. if you MUST have that sound, no other unit does it.


JFO

AnthonyL
02-21-2011, 12:41 PM
Does anyone remember the Loft Chorus?

Bobby D
02-21-2011, 01:18 PM
the guyatone mighty micro chorus has a "tri" mode switch that gives you a taste of tri-chorus, it's pretty cool for on the cheap tri-chorus action.

the Tri chorus in the M9 and HD series isn't all that bad, if you dial it in right....

still miss my 1210. i traded a GUITAR for mine when they came out, and it was worth it. that unit, splitting two mesa mkIII heads into stereo going into two mesa 4x12 cabs, was a rig to be reckoned with for 80s tones!:bow

ChorusCrackpot
02-22-2011, 01:56 AM
Does anyone remember the Loft Chorus?

I've never heard of it before. You have me intrigued!

DANOCASTER
02-22-2011, 10:13 AM
I've never heard of it before. You have me intrigued!

Alex Liefson used one for a while - pretty sure that's what is on "Limelight". He definitely used a Loft though - as well as CE-1 earlier on

AnthonyL
02-22-2011, 06:19 PM
I've never heard of it before. You have me intrigued!

Here's an older gear demo from Vivian Campbell. When he goes through the rack he's shows you the Loft Chorus. He also demos it a bit.

3_ydpQWsUVY

ChorusCrackpot
02-24-2011, 11:01 AM
Here's an older gear demo from Vivian Campbell. When he goes through the rack he's shows you the Loft Chorus. He also demos it a bit.

3_ydpQWsUVY


Thanks very much for that. I'll give the video a listen.

ChorusCrackpot
02-24-2011, 11:15 AM
the guyatone mighty micro chorus has a "tri" mode switch that gives you a taste of tri-chorus, it's pretty cool for on the cheap tri-chorus action.

the Tri chorus in the M9 and HD series isn't all that bad, if you dial it in right....

still miss my 1210. i traded a GUITAR for mine when they came out, and it was worth it. that unit, splitting two mesa mkIII heads into stereo going into two mesa 4x12 cabs, was a rig to be reckoned with for 80s tones!:bow


Thanks Bobby D.

What about Strymon's Ola chorus pedal? Does it replicate a true tri-stereo chorus sound, or just a taste as well?

ChorusCrackpot
02-24-2011, 11:18 AM
the tri-stereo sounds nothing like the 1210, which sounds nothing like any of other chorus units out there. the 1210 has a wide spread that sounds huge. lots of guys take the feed from the preamp and go directly to the 1210 in series. then it gets split into a mixer where you would add in other choruses such as the tri and perhaps some pitch from an eventide.

i'll have to do some clips, but there is this inherent "wobble," for lack of a better term, that the tri-stereo has.

nothing else gets it. there are things that try to get close, but the tri is in a league all its own. if you MUST have that sound, no other unit does it.


JFO


I guess then that the new Corona Chorus pedal by TC Electronic, doesn't sound like the tri-stereo chorus either, even if it does have a "tri-chorus" mode?


Would the wobble of the Tri-Stereo be like water rippling on a pond, if that makes any sense? There's always some sense of moment in the sound?, rather than sounding like a wide huge spread (like the 1210)?

I look forward to your clips, thanks.

ChorusCrackpot
02-24-2011, 11:20 AM
Alex Liefson used one for a while - pretty sure that's what is on "Limelight". He definitely used a Loft though - as well as CE-1 earlier on

Thanks Danocaster, I'll go listen to that song now.

I noticed that Vivian Campbell had his Loft Chorus settings set really low. The "Delay" was set almost fully anti-clockwise, the Rate was around 10 o'clock, and the Speed was extremely slow. There were some other settings too that I need to investigate further.

LouRossi
02-24-2011, 11:26 AM
Alex Liefson used one for a while - pretty sure that's what is on "Limelight". He definitely used a Loft though - as well as CE-1 earlier on


This is the one: http://www.modezero.com/loft440.htm

He used it on Moving Pictures-Power Windows.... I think he replaced it w/ the TC 1210 in the later 80's. Maybe someone can confirm that...

ChorusCrackpot
02-24-2011, 11:51 AM
This is the one: http://www.modezero.com/loft440.htm

He used it on Moving Pictures-Power Windows.... I think he replaced it w/ the TC 1210 in the later 80's. Maybe someone can confirm that...


Cheers!


I'm quite sure that Alex has been using the TC Electronic 1210 more recently, definitely within the last 10 years.

I've found a photo- looks a bit grainy.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3582/3301005412_76cd678860_z.jpg?zz=1

zachman
02-24-2011, 12:35 PM
This is the one: http://www.modezero.com/loft440.htm

He used it on Moving Pictures-Power Windows.... I think he replaced it w/ the TC 1210 in the later 80's. Maybe someone can confirm that...

pUxkWM_qtyk

ChorusCrackpot
02-26-2011, 09:17 AM
pUxkWM_qtyk

Thanks for posting that video :aok

I noticed that he mentioned he has the 'Loft' in his rack.

ChorusCrackpot
05-14-2011, 07:49 AM
I wish Suhr would release their Bella Chorus soon.

ChorusCrackpot
05-14-2011, 01:57 PM
I've just thought of something- what about a Tri-Stereo Flanger?
Particularly an EHX style flanger?

MRCHILL4
05-14-2011, 02:07 PM
I wish Suhr would release their Bella Chorus soon.

the suspense is killing me. i must say that i recently bought a bichorus with the deep mod from analogman, and it is simply put.....the best i have experienced to date. i have an 80's tc chorus which is nice, but sterile sounding in comparison. i have an original mxr stereo chorus which is a real cool box, but it comes up flat in comparison. i am a chorus nut, like a few here. the AM may have cured that for a while.

ChorusCrackpot
05-17-2011, 09:10 PM
the suspense is killing me. i must say that i recently bought a bichorus with the deep mod from analogman, and it is simply put.....the best i have experienced to date. i have an 80's tc chorus which is nice, but sterile sounding in comparison. i have an original mxr stereo chorus which is a real cool box, but it comes up flat in comparison. i am a chorus nut, like a few here. the AM may have cured that for a while.

I've got a Neunaber Chroma Chorus which I really like, and like even more when I tried it in a stereo effects loop. So I'm really keen now on the Suhr Bella and using its tri-stereo mode. I am just wondering where it would work best in the rig- in front of two amps, or the effects loop?

The only issue with the Chroma is that it only has mono input & output, so you need a stereo pedal before it to split the signal (I like to use it 100% wet). I've got a pedal for the job but I'd have to modify it for +4dB line level signal.

ChorusCrackpot
05-19-2011, 05:42 AM
I just thought I'd post this link in this thread. A gold mine of info...


http://www.italodeangelis.com/it/eventide_and_other_stuff/dyno_my_piano_tri_stereo_chorus.asp

ChorusCrackpot
05-29-2011, 06:56 AM
I'm thinking of making my own tri-stereo chorus out of three different chorus units and a mixing device.

sanhozay
05-29-2011, 07:18 AM
the suspense is killing me. i must say that i recently bought a bichorus with the deep mod from analogman, and it is simply put.....the best i have experienced to date. i have an 80's tc chorus which is nice, but sterile sounding in comparison. i have an original mxr stereo chorus which is a real cool box, but it comes up flat in comparison. i am a chorus nut, like a few here. the AM may have cured that for a while.

yep. i was waiting for the suhr or the fulltone and just said SCREW IT and returned back to the analogman chorus i sold almost two years ago in anticipation of the trying out the new units. i booted it big time. not only did i flake and get sucked up in the vapors of the gear of the week momentum but i sold the best chorus pedal i ever owned. i had no idea the other pedals would get held up as long as they did. in the interim i owned some pretty decent pedals but the am chorus is a perfect for me. simple and musical across the entire sweep and built with nothing but the best components. my curiosity has been attenuated in a big way but i'll eventually check out the suhr & fulltone if they ever get put out for sale. if not, i won't fret - the am does it for me.

kjetillunde
05-30-2011, 02:53 PM
I made a video of faking the tri chorus from the 80`s:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alXFKA-2rws

:)

ChorusCrackpot
06-09-2011, 08:08 AM
I made a video of faking the tri chorus from the 80`s:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alXFKA-2rws

:)

Thanks man, I will check it out later on.

ChorusCrackpot
06-09-2011, 08:13 AM
yep. i was waiting for the suhr or the fulltone and just said SCREW IT and returned back to the analogman chorus i sold almost two years ago in anticipation of the trying out the new units. i booted it big time. not only did i flake and get sucked up in the vapors of the gear of the week momentum but i sold the best chorus pedal i ever owned. i had no idea the other pedals would get held up as long as they did. in the interim i owned some pretty decent pedals but the am chorus is a perfect for me. simple and musical across the entire sweep and built with nothing but the best components. my curiosity has been attenuated in a big way but i'll eventually check out the suhr & fulltone if they ever get put out for sale. if not, i won't fret - the am does it for me.

Cool man.
I'm very interested in the Tri Stereo Chorus, but more in how it functions, rather than just using it to replicate dated guitar sounds. I want to try it out myself using three chorus units and a mixer, before buying a new device.

I still feel like that on tone alone, the reason why Tri Stereo Choruses were used with the pitch detune effects and modulated delays was just a "rack version" of a good old and gooey Electro Harmonix Electric Mistress flanger with some tape echo.

kjetillunde
06-17-2011, 09:23 AM
Thanks man, I will check it out later on.

Here is my Youtube Video embed:

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/alXFKA-2rws&version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/alXFKA-2rws&version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

italo de angelis
06-17-2011, 02:07 PM
Folks

there is no pedal on the market today that is anyhere close to the real TriStereo Chorus (Dytronics) od the '80s.
It's all marketing hype, Truth is none of these so called "Tri_something" has it down.
The tri stereo chorus had some features like:
-a chorus line preceeding all 3 separate choruses
-3 lfos with morphing waveforms
-a "spread" parameter for each chorus line which would use phase tricks to enhance the stereo panorama of each of the 3 chorus lines
-some other tricks....

I have devoted over 2 years of research and development to these wonderful units.
What I came up with is here:
http://www.italodeangelis.com/it/eventide_and_other_stuff/dyno_my_piano_tri_stereo_chorus.asp

and here...
http://www.italodeangelis.com/it/eventide_and_other_stuff/michael-in-a-box.asp

If you own an Eventide, you're in for a treat!


cheers
I

ChorusCrackpot
06-18-2011, 02:56 AM
The tri stereo chorus had some features like:
-a chorus line preceeding all 3 separate choruses
-3 lfos with morphing waveforms
-a "spread" parameter for each chorus line which would use phase tricks to enhance the stereo panorama of each of the 3 chorus lines
-some other tricks....


When you say "chorus line", are you saying the input feeds a single chorus, that then gets split to three separate chorus circuits, which then get mixed down to two (Left & Right) outputs?

How is the Central chorus mixed in with the Left and Right outputs? Equal 50/50 split?

If there are 3 LFOs, then why only one Rate control?

Why are there no Depth or Width controls? Are they preset, and/or differ for each individual chorus path? Say for example does the Left channel chorus path have a longer Pre-Delay (delay time) or a wider Width than the Right channel chorus path?

How does the "spread parameter" work? Does this change the shape of the LFO waveform to make the pitch modulation more apparent?

What are the other tricks?


Here's a video of a Tri-Stereo Chorus (Dytronics CS-5 version). How come when 'Chorus 3' is engaged, no modulation is heard? Is it just a mild modulation internally mixed 100% wet, with the 'Intensity' acting as a volume Level control? I do sense a slight tone change though...

8tTn59MnI-I

ChorusCrackpot
06-18-2011, 03:08 AM
-3 lfos with morphing waveforms
-a "spread" parameter for each chorus line which would use phase tricks to enhance the stereo panorama of each of the 3 chorus lines
-some other tricks....

---What I came up with is here:
http://www.italodeangelis.com/it/eventide_and_other_stuff/dyno_my_piano_tri_stereo_chorus.asp

I just noticed on your website:


http://www.italodeangelis.com/public/contents/eventide_and_other_stuff/eventide/DynoMyPiano/DynoMyPiano-2.jpg

This H8000FW display image shows the rate parameter, common to all 3 chorus lines and the 3 different choices for the lfos waveforms, originally managed by the 3 Intensity knobs. They can select a single specific wave such as sine, triangle or square OR a blend of sine/tri or tri/square. The blends do the magic!


How were the Intensity knobs manipulated to select the specific LFO waves and blends of waves? Did EACH Intensity knob have selections for: sine, triangular, square, sine/tri, tri/square?

ChorusCrackpot
06-18-2011, 03:10 AM
Here is my Youtube Video embed:

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/alXFKA-2rws&version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/alXFKA-2rws&version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

Sounds really good man.

Whalestone
06-18-2011, 05:32 AM
Here's a video of a Tri-Stereo Chorus (Dytronics CS-5 version). How come when 'Chorus 3' is engaged, no modulation is heard?
8tTn59MnI-I
It appears there was something wrong with that unit. If you read the comments to that YouTube video, someone asks if the uploader ever figured out what was wrong with channel 3 and the uploader responds "yup, it's repaired now!"

ChorusCrackpot
06-18-2011, 09:23 PM
It appears there was something wrong with that unit. If you read the comments to that YouTube video, someone asks if the uploader ever figured out what was wrong with channel 3 and the uploader responds "yup, it's repaired now!"

Ah! Thanks for that Whalestone!

kjetillunde
03-15-2012, 04:30 PM
Is there any good tri chorus pedal on the marked? And sounds like Landau`s chorus rack sound?

speedyone
03-15-2012, 11:00 PM
The Yamaha UD Stomp can create phenomenal chorus sounds; up to 8 simultaneous delay lines can be used, and you can adjust individual speed/depth/rate/waveform on each line individually.

wichita
03-16-2012, 04:20 AM
The Tri Chorus thing is hard to fake with other gear.
Its almost as hard to nail as faking an Echoplex or Leslie.
Just one of those magical pieces of gear.

I will say however that this thread warms my heart. When waking up way too early in the morning this old gear head loves to see threads on the GP where folks ponder tone, esoteric gear and unobtanium rather than asking questions like
"My guitar has a tone knob, why?"
"What is a tape echo and why is that not a delay?"
"Zack kicks ass more than ____insert name here"
or my all time favorite
"I bought _____(insert piece of gear here) and I don't sound anything like_____(insert player name here)"

So is someone actually going to build a real knock off of the Tri Chorus?
I have a Eventide 7600 with a tri chorus setting and its pretty nice, but just does not have that chewy grainy thick thing that the originals seemed to have.

And I do agree, the 1210 is wonderful.. but its not THAT...

Suhr is releasing one??

Whalestone
03-16-2012, 09:25 AM
Suhr is releasing one??
Suhr is working on releasing a digital modulation pedal with the ability to emulate a Tri Stereo Chorus.

wichita
03-16-2012, 09:37 AM
That would be neat if it works.
That is like saying "This pedal sounds just like an echoplex"

Guitar Josh
03-16-2012, 09:42 AM
Suhr is working on releasing a digital modulation pedal with the ability to emulate a Tri Stereo Chorus.

you forgot to add "for the past few years..."

johngreene
03-16-2012, 02:51 PM
When you say "chorus line", are you saying the input feeds a single chorus, that then gets split to three separate chorus circuits, which then get mixed down to two (Left & Right) outputs?

How is the Central chorus mixed in with the Left and Right outputs? Equal 50/50 split?

If there are 3 LFOs, then why only one Rate control?

Why are there no Depth or Width controls? Are they preset, and/or differ for each individual chorus path? Say for example does the Left channel chorus path have a longer Pre-Delay (delay time) or a wider Width than the Right channel chorus path?

How does the "spread parameter" work? Does this change the shape of the LFO waveform to make the pitch modulation more apparent?

What are the other tricks?



There isn't a single chorus line feeding the three channels. Not sure what he means by that but the single input gets split into three for the three chorus paths.

The intensity controls actually control the 'width'.

Only one of the LFOs has an adjustable rate. The other two are fixed. The adjustable one is only mixed with the two fixed speed LFOs in Manual mode.

Each of the 3 LFOs has 3 outputs which differ in phase. So technically you -could- say there are 9.

There is an 'add-on' board in the Dyno-my-piano version that is incorporated on the main board in the Songbird version that allows some added variety for mixing the rate adjustable LFO with the center channel only and an external control for increasing the rate.

--john

stealth
03-16-2012, 04:02 PM
I had the Songbird TSC. I've never heard anything that quite sounds like it ( including the TC 1210 ).

i used the cs-5 version for years. first time i met danocaster was when one of his friends was buying a cs-5 from the same batch as mine.

had a tc 1210 also but sold it - nothing i have heard comes close to the real tri.

i would still have the cs-5 but it was stolen along with a bradshaw system in nashville - never to be seen again. it would be nice if someone really made this either in rack or pedal form.

MRCHILL4
03-16-2012, 09:21 PM
is the pedal dead in the water ?

ChorusCrackpot
03-23-2012, 09:05 AM
There isn't a single chorus line feeding the three channels. Not sure what he means by that but the single input gets split into three for the three chorus paths.

The intensity controls actually control the 'width'.

Only one of the LFOs has an adjustable rate. The other two are fixed. The adjustable one is only mixed with the two fixed speed LFOs in Manual mode.

Each of the 3 LFOs has 3 outputs which differ in phase. So technically you -could- say there are 9.

There is an 'add-on' board in the Dyno-my-piano version that is incorporated on the main board in the Songbird version that allows some added variety for mixing the rate adjustable LFO with the center channel only and an external control for increasing the rate.

--john

Thanks very much for that John.

You wouldn't happen to know which LFO in particular is the "manually controlled" LFO? Is it the Centre? Left? Right?

How much are the outputs out of phase with each other? 60 degrees? 120 degrees? Is it like the old Farfisa in-built chorus circuit, or the 'elkorus'?


Also could you please demonstrate the TSC's "manual' and "preset" settings, on its own?

speedyone
03-23-2012, 11:27 PM
I'd love to know the technical description for how the tri-chorus works, as far as wave construction/width/intensity/phasing/etc, then I could program my UD stomp and see how it would sound.

ChorusCrackpot
03-26-2012, 01:32 AM
I'd love to know the technical description for how the tri-chorus works, as far as wave construction/width/intensity/phasing/etc, then I could program my UD stomp and see how it would sound.

It's pretty complicated. There is some great information out there but is rather complex.

I've tried finding demonstrations of the Tri Stereo to get some understanding of how it works, but they are always cluttered by so many other processors (e.g. harmonisors running detune effects, compressors, delays, equalisers, etc.) aiming for that late 1980s "LA Studio Sound".

I received one demonstration with different settings that helped a lot.

From what I understand, there are three delay lines controlled by an LFO with a manual Rate control - Left, Centre, and Right.

Each delay line is already offset by a particular base delay time, known also as the Pre-Delay. It could be 20ms, 50ms, 10ms, 3ms, 15ms, I don't know.
The shorter the delay time, the more "crisp & tight" the chorusing sounds, and the longer the delay time, the more warmer, viscous, and even watery the chorusing sounds.

These delay lines each have an 'Intensity' control, which I have been told actually controls the Width of modulation. This is the range of how far the base delay time gets varied. The greater the range, the greater the pitch modulation, thus the more warble. Compare swinging a garden hose holding it at 2 inches from its end (narrow Width), to holding it at 20 inches from its end (wide Width).

But then there are two more "pre-set" LFOs! You end up with 9 delay lines from the original three, that are all set slightly out of phase. I do not know the amount of degrees, but I guess something like 60 degrees, then 120 degrees, then 240 degrees?. The old Farfisa synth keyboards do a similar thing with their in-built chorus, as well as the Elkorus.

I speculate that one of the LFOs acts as a type of panner, that alternates across the delay lines at variable rates to get a complex waveform that then causes extra comb filtering with the original LFO's waveform. You get different peaks and troughs in the modulation that make it more liquid and ripply, and also really phasey.

Some TSC units also have push-pull pots on the Intensity controls. Pulling them makes the sound more flangey and swooshy.

I speculate that the 9 delay lines get mixed down to the Left and Right outputs.


One of Eventide's harmonisors has a Tri Stereo Chorus algorithm, with settings for different waveform shapes, e.g. sine waves, triangular waves, and a combination of both. I don't think you can control the waveform shape inside the TSC, it must be also "pre-set".

johngreene
03-30-2012, 11:42 AM
Thanks very much for that John.

You wouldn't happen to know which LFO in particular is the "manually controlled" LFO? Is it the Centre? Left? Right?

How much are the outputs out of phase with each other? 60 degrees? 120 degrees? Is it like the old Farfisa in-built chorus circuit, or the 'elkorus'?


Also could you please demonstrate the TSC's "manual' and "preset" settings, on its own?

It's all three. There are 3, 3-phase LFOs in play. Two are fixed and drive the 'left', 'center', and 'right' delay paths. The "manually controlled" LFO is a 3-phase LFO mixing in with the other two fixed ones for the 'left', 'center' and 'right'.

Each LFO generates a three phase output that are 120 degrees out of phase with each other.

In 'mono' mode, all three delay channels are mixed together with the dry, the same amount for both outputs. In 'stereo' mode, one channel gets center and right delays mixed with dry, the other channel gets center and left mixed with dry.

I cannot demonstrate the TSC's 'manual' and 'preset' settings. The difference is just as I described, manual mode mixes in a frequency adjustable LFO with the other two. That's all.

--john

johngreene
03-30-2012, 11:57 AM
It's pretty complicated. There is some great information out there but is rather complex.

--stuff deleted---

But then there are two more "pre-set" LFOs! You end up with 9 delay lines from the original three, that are all set slightly out of phase. I do not know the amount of degrees, but I guess something like 60 degrees, then 120 degrees, then 240 degrees?. The old Farfisa synth keyboards do a similar thing with their in-built chorus, as well as the Elkorus.
Not quite, there are only 3 delay lines, each with one modulation input. The modulation input for each of the three has 3 sources mixed together to form that single modulating waveform. One of the sources is adjustable in frequency.
I speculate that one of the LFOs acts as a type of panner, that alternates across the delay lines at variable rates to get a complex waveform that then causes extra comb filtering with the original LFO's waveform. You get different peaks and troughs in the modulation that make it more liquid and ripply, and also really phasey.
nope.
Some TSC units also have push-pull pots on the Intensity controls. Pulling them makes the sound more flangey and swooshy.I don't see how that would be possible but what I do know is that if you pulled the knob, the post-delay LPF gets about a 6dB boost of the high frequencies.
I speculate that the 9 delay lines get mixed down to the Left and Right outputs. Yet there are only 3.
One of Eventide's harmonisors has a Tri Stereo Chorus algorithm, with settings for different waveform shapes, e.g. sine waves, triangular waves, and a combination of both. I don't think you can control the waveform shape inside the TSC, it must be also "pre-set".The waveforms do not change. They are always the same.

--john

SkippyD
03-30-2012, 01:10 PM
Doesn't the new TC Corona Chorus have a tri chorus mode?

ChorusCrackpot
03-30-2012, 11:15 PM
Doesn't the new TC Corona Chorus have a tri chorus mode?

It does, but it's not the same as the original Tri Stereo Chorus by Dyno My Piano. People often confuse the two though.


Here's the true-blue TSC:

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h150/redsleep/Pedals/Picture103.jpg

ChorusCrackpot
03-30-2012, 11:26 PM
It's all three. There are 3, 3-phase LFOs in play. Two are fixed and drive the 'left', 'center', and 'right' delay paths. The "manually controlled" LFO is a 3-phase LFO mixing in with the other two fixed ones for the 'left', 'center' and 'right'.

Each LFO generates a three phase output that are 120 degrees out of phase with each other.

In 'mono' mode, all three delay channels are mixed together with the dry, the same amount for both outputs. In 'stereo' mode, one channel gets center and right delays mixed with dry, the other channel gets center and left mixed with dry.

I cannot demonstrate the TSC's 'manual' and 'preset' settings. The difference is just as I described, manual mode mixes in a frequency adjustable LFO with the other two. That's all.

--john

Thanks for your reply and clarifications.

You wouldn't happen to know the Rate settings of the fixed LFOs? For example are they 0.6Hz and 6Hz? Or 0.5Hz and 2.5Hz?

What is the range of Rate for the manually controlled LFO? From 0.1Hz to 10Hz?

Why does the TSC employ a 120 degrees three-phase setup for the LFOs? Why 120 degrees out of phase? Why have out of phase signals in the first place? Is it to do with calculated phase cancelling? Does it smooth out the waveform or something? And is there a cheap way to adjust the phase difference between output signals?

ChorusCrackpot
03-30-2012, 11:40 PM
Not quite, there are only 3 delay lines, each with one modulation input. The modulation input for each of the three has 3 sources mixed together to form that single modulating waveform. One of the sources is adjustable in frequency.

When you say "sources" do you mean the two fixed LFOs and the manually adjustable LFO?

My understanding is that an LFO controls how often a delay line will cycle from its base delay time to a set delay time as specified by the Width control.

For instance, a single phase LFO will cause a delay line to change from 20ms (pre-Delay/base delay time), to 24ms (ie a Width of 4ms), at a particular Rate (say 0.25Hz).

The pitch will noticeably drop due to the Doppler Effect, because the signal is now 4ms further away than it was before. When the LFO causes the delay line to cycle back up to 20ms (the 'base'), the delay shortens, causing a rise in pitch.




nope.

OK.


I don't see how that would be possible but what I do know is that if you pulled the knob, the post-delay LPF gets about a 6dB boost of the high frequencies.

Ok then. I guess you hear more of the modulation when the high frequencies are boosted.

Yet there are only 3.

So you are saying that there are only three physical delay lines?
But because a 3-phase signal passes through each delay line, there are a total of "9 delay lines"?


The waveforms do not change. They are always the same.
--john

Then why did I see a picture of an Eventide with a TSC algorithm, showing selections for different waveform shapes?
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee118/zachman_photos/My%20Guitar%20gear/Picture016.jpg

_jt_
04-02-2012, 01:28 AM
Why does the TSC employ a 120 degrees three-phase setup for the LFOs? Why 120 degrees out of phase? Why have out of phase signals in the first place?

Two (@ 0 and 180) will just cancel out. Three (360 / 3 = 120, phase offsets @ 0, 120, and 240) are equally spaced apart. It sounds smoother and doesn't have the same phase cancellation like with 2 @ 180.

johngreene
04-04-2012, 09:09 AM
Thanks for your reply and clarifications.

You wouldn't happen to know the Rate settings of the fixed LFOs? For example are they 0.6Hz and 6Hz? Or 0.5Hz and 2.5Hz?

What is the range of Rate for the manually controlled LFO? From 0.1Hz to 10Hz?

Why does the TSC employ a 120 degrees three-phase setup for the LFOs? Why 120 degrees out of phase? Why have out of phase signals in the first place? Is it to do with calculated phase cancelling? Does it smooth out the waveform or something? And is there a cheap way to adjust the phase difference between output signals?
The signals are not out of phase other than what is a result of delay. The LFOs are out of phase. It's two completely different things.

johngreene
04-04-2012, 09:11 AM
Then why did I see a picture of an Eventide with a TSC algorithm, showing selections for different waveform shapes?
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee118/zachman_photos/My%20Guitar%20gear/Picture016.jpgI guess you would have to ask Eventide because the tri-stereo only has one shape.

johngreene
04-04-2012, 09:17 AM
So you are saying that there are only three physical delay lines?
But because a 3-phase signal passes through each delay line, there are a total of "9 delay lines"?
There are only 3 (thus 'tri') delay lines. I'm sorry you are not getting this but I'm running out of ways to describe it.

3 LFOs are combined (in manual mode) to create one "composite" LFO waveform for each of the 3 delay paths.

i.e. the picture of the Eventide you included in your post shows 5 LFO waveforms. Center and Right are using a combination of sine and triangle to created the modulating waveform for those channels. But there are only 3 channels.

--john

brightboy
04-04-2012, 09:34 AM
There are only 3 (thus 'tri') delay lines. I'm sorry you are not getting this but I'm running out of ways to describe it.


I wouldn't feed him anymore.

It's obvious the ChorusCrackpot doesn't have an engineering background and is grasping at straws.

He only came here because he pissed off most of the people on HRI that had any knowledge on the subject.

(And yes I know what's going on under the hood of the TSC)

Jeff

ChorusCrackpot
04-20-2012, 07:28 AM
I wouldn't feed him anymore.

It's obvious the ChorusCrackpot doesn't have an engineering background and is grasping at straws.

He only came here because he pissed off most of the people on HRI that had any knowledge on the subject.

(And yes I know what's going on under the hood of the TSC)

Jeff


Hey. There's no need to drag up the dirt from other forums. I am trying to seek knowledge. I just got frustrated one day and took it out in a silly way, then got crabby. What's done is done and there is no need to tell others what they should or should not tell me or anyone else for that matter.

Not only do I seek knowledge for myself, but also for others. That is why I ask these questions in public forums.

It appears that I am being put down for not having an engineering background, thus am not intelligent to understand the at times fairly vague information that is cluttered with only partially relevant details.
It also appears that the vibe has become similar to Post-Traumatic War Stress where Vietnam veterans form a recluse saying "You had to be there...".
Well- I wasn't there.....I wasn't there when these Tri-Stereo Choruses were being made and used. I have never seen one in person my entire life. I have no idea how these things work. I'm trying to piece together whatever information I can get. And often the information is convoluted.


Offence aside- it is true that I don't have an engineering background. I enjoy discussing electronics here and there but mostly on a casual, light-hearted level. This is a music forum- not a physics symposium! At the end of the day we just want to make fun noises while creating music. I just happen to be interested in the technical processes involved.

I am very grateful for all the information that has been brought forward.

Now, lets have the discussion continue.


If you have any knowledge about the TSC, please feel welcome to share it. We can all only benefit from your education. Thank you.

ChorusCrackpot
04-20-2012, 07:37 AM
There are only 3 (thus 'tri') delay lines. I'm sorry you are not getting this but I'm running out of ways to describe it.

3 LFOs are combined (in manual mode) to create one "composite" LFO waveform for each of the 3 delay paths.

i.e. the picture of the Eventide you included in your post shows 5 LFO waveforms. Center and Right are using a combination of sine and triangle to created the modulating waveform for those channels. But there are only 3 channels.

--john


Thanks for your reply John. I really appreciate all the information you have shared and with each reply it is getting clearer and clearer. I hope others can pitch in as well with whatever information they have.

I didn't know that there was a "composite" LFO for each delay path. Are you saying that an original LFO waveform is split into three parts, put out of phase by x degrees and y degrees, then combined again for the "composite" waveform?

I apologise if I appear confused. I have started reading the user guide for the Symphona Elkorus, which is based on the Solina Ensemble chorusing circuit. It appears to me to be its own version on the multi-chorusing arrangement.

italo de angelis
05-11-2012, 02:51 AM
I guess you would have to ask Eventide because the tri-stereo only has one shape.

The TriStereo Chorus seems to have a mix or "morph" between different waveforms in the way the LFO sweeps the delays. The 3 Intensity knobs don't really work as the normal chorus depth. It changes the waveform shape in a progressive way, altering simple waveshapes (sine/triangle/square) into a complex mix of 2 of them.
On the Eventide replica the waveforms available are 3; each one can be used alone or a mix of 2 of them can be set... trying to get that same complex "morphed" waveform of the original unit.
The result is a complex modulation, without predictable cyclical patterns, with great harmonics richness.

gerryguitar
05-11-2012, 03:58 AM
like a lot of people here I've wanted that Tri Stereo Chorus sound since I've been playing, and like a lot of you I also won't be able to buy the real deal...:puh

but I've tried to get as close as I could..

J7fVdG7Zd3A

best I could do but still not right...

this is what I really want..

L3I6euvvLFc

italo de angelis
05-11-2012, 04:07 AM
"like a lot of people here I've wanted that Tri Stereo Chorus sound since I've been playing, and like a lot of you I also won't be able to buy the real deal...:puh

but I've tried to get as close as I could..
best I could do but still not right... "



You aren't far!

http://www.italodeangelis.com/it/eventide_and_other_stuff/michael-in-a-box.asp

and
http://www.italodeangelis.com/it/eventide_and_other_stuff/eventide_ORVILLE_DSP7500_DSP7000.asp#audioclips

gerryguitar
05-11-2012, 04:12 AM
"like a lot of people here I've wanted that Tri Stereo Chorus sound since I've been playing, and like a lot of you I also won't be able to buy the real deal...:puh

but I've tried to get as close as I could..
best I could do but still not right... "



You aren't far!

http://www.italodeangelis.com/it/eventide_and_other_stuff/michael-in-a-box.asp

and
http://www.italodeangelis.com/it/eventide_and_other_stuff/eventide_ORVILLE_DSP7500_DSP7000.asp#audioclips

thank you Italo.. from you I take that as a big compliment.

ChampReverb
05-11-2012, 08:21 AM
like a lot of people here I've wanted that Tri Stereo Chorus sound since I've been playing, and like a lot of you I also won't be able to buy the real deal...:puh

but I've tried to get as close as I could..

J7fVdG7Zd3A

best I could do but still not right...

this is what I really want..

L3I6euvvLFc

I like the top clip better than the Strymon which sounds colder and a bit brittle by comparison.

-bEn r.

gerryguitar
05-11-2012, 10:44 AM
I like the top clip better than the Strymon which sounds colder and a bit brittle by comparison.

-bEn r.

thank you...

scottywompas
05-11-2012, 07:36 PM
http://l6c.lcdn.line6.net/media/tonecore/SC%20Tri_Warm.mp3

http://l6c.lcdn.line6.net/media/tonecore/SC%20Tri_Bright.mp3

http://www.tcelectronic.com/toneprintdownload.asp?AjrDcmntId=12268


Just off the top of my head.:idea

ChorusCrackpot
07-14-2012, 05:40 AM
I like the top clip better than the Strymon which sounds colder and a bit brittle by comparison.

-bEn r.

Agreed. The 'top clip' has some nice warmth and viscosity. The 'bottom clip' sounds too thin, icy & tinkly, and brittle like you said.

italo de angelis
04-03-2013, 05:03 AM
Revisiting this thread:
mighty Korg DL8000R!
https://soundcloud.com/italoop/landauoom
nice TSC possibilities there...

ChorusCrackpot
04-04-2013, 10:23 PM
Thanks Italo.

psklaroff
05-03-2013, 12:17 PM
I've been after this sound for a long time but after much frustration I came up with this tone via some plug-ins. Shame I can't afford the real thing but this works for recordings anyway...

https://soundcloud.com/pete-sklaroff/tri-stereo-chorus

Thanks

Pete

RSRD
05-03-2013, 12:31 PM
like a lot of people here I've wanted that Tri Stereo Chorus sound since I've been playing, and like a lot of you I also won't be able to buy the real deal...:puh

but I've tried to get as close as I could..

J7fVdG7Zd3A

best I could do but still not right...

this is what I really want..

L3I6euvvLFc


Enjoyed these. While the strymon did sound thiner/more brittle it also was less 'flubby' then the Boss. I did like the boss but have a feeling that if you played with the amps EQ the Strymon would sound best in the end.

Either way, Alex Lifeson from the 90s would be proud!

GtrGeorge!
07-12-2013, 08:58 PM
I ,too,love those amazing TSC tones....anybody have any luck replicating them at a working-musicians budget???
GtrGeorge

SonicBoom
07-13-2013, 03:29 PM
like a lot of people here I've wanted that Tri Stereo Chorus sound since I've been playing, and like a lot of you I also won't be able to buy the real deal...:puh

but I've tried to get as close as I could..

J7fVdG7Zd3A

best I could do but still not right...

this is what I really want..

L3I6euvvLFc

Very nice work!! Would you mind sharing the details of how you got the sound? I, too, like the Boss version, but the Timeline version has its merits.

kjetillunde
10-17-2013, 05:09 PM
Still no Tri Stereo Chorus in one pedal??

Is there a plugin emulation of Dytronics CS-5 out there?

italo de angelis
04-07-2014, 01:46 AM
There isn't and the won't be any real TSC pedal!
You can't fit that kind of analog circuit in a floor format.
And the plug... won't sound the same anyway even if real.

BUT... the good news is that the REAL THING IS BACK!

http://www.shivaaudio.com/

THE WAVE is a perfect 1:1 sounding clone of the Dytronics CS-5.
You will watch nice video-clips and download very high resolution audio clips, with A/B comparison w/the original unit!

I have used both units side by side and there's no difference, other than THE WAVE sounds fuller since the CS-5 electronics are 1/4er of century old now.

The search is over. The Tri Stereo Chorus, the real one, is back.

Enjoy folks!

ERGExplorer
04-07-2014, 05:32 PM
In addition to the advertisement which Shiva just posted in this topic for "The Wave" (1200€/$1650), there is also Fulltone's "That 80's Rack Chorus," priced at 946€/$1299.

http://www.fulltone.com/products/80s-rack-chorus

Both units look like their makers expended some care into making sure they nailed the original. It's nice to see these options available for those who are interested in spending the money for an exact copy....

DANOCASTER
04-07-2014, 05:38 PM
As Far as I've heard - the Fulltone is dead in the water and there have been none available / none sold

am I wrong ?

johngreene
04-07-2014, 06:45 PM
As Far as I've heard - the Fulltone is dead in the water and there have been none available / none sold

am I wrong ?

Yup.
http://www.fulltone.com/products/80s-rack-chorus

mdrake34
04-07-2014, 07:35 PM
It's a shame those are prohibitively expensive. I love Clapton's 80's tone but I could never shell that out for an effect, let alone a chorus.

SonicBoom
04-07-2014, 08:02 PM
Great sounding effect but I'll stick with my Line 6 Space Chorus. It's got a tri-chorus setting that's close enough. I can spend the savings on...more pedals! :D

66Park
04-07-2014, 08:27 PM
It's a shame those are prohibitively expensive. I love Clapton's 80's tone but I could never shell that out for an effect, let alone a chorus.
There are expensive, but I don't think you could expect they wouldn't be. It's not a pedal, and the original was pretty expensive as I recall as well. Back in the eighties, I paid more than that for several of the pieces in my session rack - my Lexicon PCM 70 and my TC 2290 off the top of my head, and that was thirty years ago. The price and the rack format are going to limit the appeal of both of those units, but I don't think it could realistically be any other way. At this point, it's not an effect I want, but I think Shiva has really nailed it from the demos. I haven't heard any recordings of the Fulltone yet, but I bet Mike nailed it, too.

mdrake34
04-08-2014, 07:00 AM
I see that the TC Electronics Corona Chorus and special edition Gravy Chorus pedals both have a Tricho setting, how do those sound?

italo de angelis
04-08-2014, 07:38 AM
I see that the TC Electronics Corona Chorus and special edition Gravy Chorus pedals both have a Tricho setting, how do those sound?

See...
3 delay lines with modulation is something you can get from most multi-fx out there.
What you won't get is the analog tone, the complex waveshaping happening in the original design and the whole magic of the sound this effect has.
It's very different in its guts!

66Park
04-08-2014, 08:05 AM
See...
3 delay lines with modulation is something you can get from most multi-fx out there.
What you won't get is the analog tone, the complex waveshaping happening in the original design and the whole magic of the sound this effect has.
It's very different in its guts!
We've been through all this before with gear of all types. People want to know if there is a cheaper route to the sound. Sometimes you can get close enough with an imitation to suit your needs. Unless it is actually a recreation of the original unit, at best it's going to maybe be in the ballpark. If you want the real thing with the exact sound, that's what you're going to need to buy. And the Shiva unit is it. It sounds absurdly fantastic!

italo de angelis
04-08-2014, 08:15 AM
We've been through all this before with gear of all types. People want to know if there is a cheaper route to the sound. Sometimes you can get close enough with an imitation to suit your needs. Unless it is actually a recreation of the original unit, at best it's going to maybe be in the ballpark. If you want the real thing with the exact sound, that's what you're going to need to buy. And the Shiva unit is it. It sounds absurdly fantastic!

I got very close to the original...
but you don't want to know how much more expensive that path actually is!

Added on April 9:
Let me explain better as a moderator here incorrectly thinks I work for SHIVA and that is totally wrong!
My post above here refers to the fact I have developed the algorithm for the Dyno My Piano TSC on the Eventide DIGITAL platform (DSP/H series) back in the day, when I WAS working for Eventide.
So... that's a "much more expensive path" to the TSC sound than getting the analog clones now available (THE WAVE/TERC). If you buy an Eventide just for the TSC preset... you end up with a pretty expensive choice for the single task... of course you can do a gazillions of other things and that adds values to the choice... but that's a whole different point we don't need to discuss here.
Being a digital developer (software!!!) I do not work whit/for SHIVA. We are in two totally different areas that don't relate to each other in terms of product development. I do work for myself, as all know, and clearly disclose the fact in my signature, as required by the forum rules.
I have been lucky to use SHIVE THE WAVE TSC clone for a couple of days, along with the original TSC unit it was cloned off and found its "clone_ness" to be perfect... that's where my enthusiasm in informing people about the come back of this classic sound comes from. I'm not involved in any professional affiliated promotion as I'm not part of the development of THE WAVE, nor I make any profit out of it. In fact I don't even own the unit, which I'd have to pay money for if interested in.
My posting about THE WAVE is completely and only informative about the return of that classic chorus sound, much sought after, that every forum has been having threads about for years.

johngreene
04-18-2014, 09:37 AM
I got very close to the original...
but you don't want to know how much more expensive that path actually is!

The TERC is equivalent to the original. Only with better grounding and therefore less noise. I'm sure it was expensive as there are a lot of 'fake' MN3007s out there. In fact, I would be surprised if there are any more actual MN3007s available. The last of them will be in TERCs. :)

I can't tell you how many "MN3007"s I've seen that are actually re-screened MN3207's. They will burn up if you plug them into a circuit that was designed for MN3007's as the power supply pins are reversed.

66Park
04-18-2014, 10:45 AM
The TERC is equivalent to the original. Only with better grounding and therefore less noise. I'm sure it was expensive as there are a lot of 'fake' MN3007s out there. In fact, I would be surprised if there are any more actual MN3007s available. The last of them will be in TERCs. :)

I can't tell you how many "MN3007"s I've seen that are actually re-screened MN3207's. They will burn up if you plug them into a circuit that was designed for MN3007's as the power supply pins are reversed.
What I've heard of the TERC sounds killer.

italo de angelis
04-18-2014, 03:43 PM
The TERC is equivalent to the original. Only with better grounding and therefore less noise. I'm sure it was expensive as there are a lot of 'fake' MN3007s out there. In fact, I would be surprised if there are any more actual MN3007s available. The last of them will be in TERCs. :)

I can't tell you how many "MN3007"s I've seen that are actually re-screened MN3207's. They will burn up if you plug them into a circuit that was designed for MN3007's as the power supply pins are reversed.

I don't know why you would reply to my post with the details about the chips in the TERC.
My post wasn't about analog technology anyway.
Also you may want to state you work for Fulltone.

ERGExplorer
04-18-2014, 09:52 PM
Whoa! Did I miss the point where this topic moved away from tri-chorus in general, and was changed to a topic where we can only talk about the Shiva?

The point of his post is that the you said the Shiva gets close to the original.

He noted that the TERC is *equivalent* to the original, not just close.

You said we don't want to know how expensive it was to get close.

He said that he knows how expensive it was to actually duplicate it while simultaneously improving the noise specs.

Both of the points are in response to what you wrote.

If you want a topic where you can limit conversation to only your product, why not do so in the builders' forum?

BTW... your signature doesn't make clear that you're the one selling the unit you keep talking up. I'm sure you'll fix that. :aok

italo de angelis
04-19-2014, 12:39 AM
Whoa! Did I miss the point where this topic moved away from tri-chorus in general, and was changed to a topic where we can only talk about the Shiva?

The point of his post is that the you said the Shiva gets close to the original.

He noted that the TERC is *equivalent* to the original, not just close.

You said we don't want to know how expensive it was to get close.

He said that he knows how expensive it was to actually duplicate it while simultaneously improving the noise specs.

Both of the points are in response to what you wrote.

If you want a topic where you can limit conversation to only your product, why not do so in the builders' forum?

BTW... your signature doesn't make clear that you're the one selling the unit you keep talking up. I'm sure you'll fix that. :aok

There's some confusion here.
Let me explain..
Both units are clones of the original models of the TSC. 1:1 to it.
When I stated how expensive was to get closer to the original unit I wasn't referring to The Wave at all. Mine is an attempt to a digital clone, having created the Eventide DSP/Orville/H-series "Dyno My Piano" preset, based on studying the analog unit. These units may be VERY expensive... that's what I was referring to.
You can check the Eventides presets manuals and find the Dyno TSC presets in there, developed years ago, when I *was* working with them.
And a reference to in on my website:
http://www.italodeangelis.com/it/eventide_and_other_stuff/dyno_my_piano_tri_stereo_chorus.asp
And no, I do NOT work with/for Shiva, nor I sell it. I have used it for a couple of days, along with the original TSC it was cloned off and recorded audio clips with them, finding their sounds a successful 1:1 job.
So maybe it wasn't clear about but my reply to "66park" is related to what he stated, "People want to know if there is a cheaper route to the sound. Sometimes you can get close enough with an imitation to suit your needs."
Being my digital work a quality imitation based on studying the unit, my point was about how expensive the hardware on which it runs may be.
Of course you can discuss anything here, not my point.
Maybe "john greene" didn't understand my referring to the Eventide platform on which I developed the algorithm long ago.
But sure enough, according to the forum's rules, he's the only one who needs to state he works or has worked for Fulltone, developing the TERC, as it looks like from the Fulltone webpage:
http://www.fulltone.com/products/80s-rack-chorus

lestera34
04-19-2014, 05:49 AM
Whoa! Did I miss the point where this topic moved away from tri-chorus in general, and was changed to a topic where we can only talk about the Shiva?

The point of his post is that the you said the Shiva gets close to the original.

He noted that the TERC is *equivalent* to the original, not just close.

You said we don't want to know how expensive it was to get close.

He said that he knows how expensive it was to actually duplicate it while simultaneously improving the noise specs.

Both of the points are in response to what you wrote.

If you want a topic where you can limit conversation to only your product, why not do so in the builders' forum?

BTW... your signature doesn't make clear that you're the one selling the unit you keep talking up. I'm sure you'll fix that. :aok

Italo doesn't work for them.

Some of you guys need to join HRI.

Or appreciate that someone might know their shit without shilling for a company.

66Park
04-19-2014, 06:04 AM
Well, I certainly thought he worked for Shiva. I didn't mind that, but I didn't really understand the response to my post. The fact is, not everybody that likes the sound of the Tri Stereo Chorus is going to have enough use for it or the funds to buy it. Guys put together cheaper routes to a facsimile of the tone. Those videos are all over YouTube. To me, some of them sound ok, but when compared to the real thing fall short. What I was saying is if you really like a certain sound, sometimes you've just got to bite the bullet and buy the real thing, or a clone of the real thing, which both the Shiva and the Fulltone are. I've never heard the Eventide version, and didn't even know it existed, as my rack processor days were about twenty years ago. I think both the Shiva and Fulltone units sound fantastic. Not for me because of the rack format and price, but there will be plenty of guys that it will work for, and they will sell.

ufo~
04-19-2014, 10:09 AM
The tri-stereo chorus sound has haunted my dreams for well over 25 years. Longer than I've been playing. That's what happens when you grow up during the 80s. ;)

Lately I've been trying to dial this effect up on my Eclipse. I can get very, very close. I made my own 'super' chorus by combining two algorithms and adding a touch of reverb from a BigSky. It's about as close as I've come to the tri-chorus sound. Which probably means that, in reality, I'm nowhere near it. :D

Italo, I need to talk with you about your special presets for the Eclipse. The clips I've heard really pique my interest.

italo de angelis
04-19-2014, 10:17 AM
The tri-stereo chorus sound has haunted my dreams for well over 25 years. Longer than I've been playing. That's what happens when you grew up during the 80s. ;)

Lately I've been trying to dial this effect up on my Eclipse. I can get very, very close. I made my own 'super' chorus by combining two algorithms and adding a touch of reverb from a BigSky. It's about as close as I've come to the tri-chorus sound. Which probably means that, in reality, I"m nowhere near it. :D

Italo, I need to talk with you about your special presets for the Eclipse. Very interested as the clips I've heard really pique my interest.

You can contact me via website, here:
http://www.italodeangelis.com/it/contatti/

Regarding the TSC...
imagine 3 delay lines using 3 sine waves LFOs and another 3 switching in (6 waves in all) when MANUAL and PRESET modes on the original TSC are BOTH engaged. The 3 PRESET LFOs run slower, all at the same speed... The other 3 LFOs of MANUAL mode run at faster speed, maybe offset them of a very tiny 0.0x Hz.
You could use the SYSTEM LFO to modulate the 3 PRESET delays, very few milliseconds (2 or 3). That will get you very close!

ufo~
04-19-2014, 10:28 AM
You can contact me via website, here:
http://www.italodeangelis.com/it/contatti/

Regarding the TSC...
imagine 3 delay lines using 3 sine waves LFOs and another 3 switching in (6 waves in all) when MANUAL and PRESET modes on the original TSC are BOTH engaged. The 3 PRESET LFOs run slower, all at the same speed... The other 3 LFOs of MANUAL mode run at faster speed, maybe offset them of a very tiny 0.0x Hz.
You could use the SYSTEM LFO to modulate the 3 PRESET delays, very few milliseconds (2 or 3). That will get you very close!

Great suggestion. Thank you kindly. :aok Ha! Now I'm going to be tweaking my Eclipse all day just to get a little closer. Damn you tri-stereo chorus! :p

I'll be in touch, Italo. Thanks again.

mowatsmith
04-19-2014, 11:03 AM
You can check the Eventides presets manuals and find the Dyno TSC presets in there, developed years ago, when I *was* working with them.

Cool stuff. You think your old preset could be approximated on an H9?

italo de angelis
04-19-2014, 11:13 AM
TRY THIS ON YOUR Lexicon PCM80/81 and/or Eventide ECLIPSE!:dude
Sorry for the pedalists! :cry:



TSC has 2 modes:
-MANUAL : you control the 3 delays depths and master rate
-PRESET : three LFOs are preset at quite slow speed, modulating the 3 delays. You can't change anything.
The real trick is to ENGAGE BOTH modes at the same time, getting 6 waveforms to modulate the 3 delays.
This also implies WAVESHAPING! Have you read my tech post here? :
http://www.hugeracksinc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=92522&hilit=waveshaping
No? Then you should as it will explain how good modulation and the TSC work!
So, with both modes engaged 2 LFOs per delay line will create resultant waveforms, different from the original ones.
The TSC uses mostly sine waves but using different waves you get much more interesting results.
The point is to have the 3 MANUAL mode delays to sweep at faster rate than the 3 in the PRESET mode.
The blend is killer!

So... on the PCM80/81
load the CHORUS>REVERB algorithm
this one has double modulation capabilities most of you haven't noticed:
internal modulation per each delay line, with its rate and depth parameters and system modulation (PATCH ROW) where you can GLIDE any and all delay lines patching them to the system LFO or separate waveforms.
You'll need to tweak the GLIDE parameters to make the delays...glide!
Create a 3 voice chorus, maybe using voices from the same memory buffer (dlys 1/2/3 OR 4/5/6). Don't use feedback for now.
Set delays in the 10 to 20 ms. Set depths so that the delay interacts, overlapping...
this means a delay of 10 ms with a 3 ms depth will sweep between 10 and 13 (or 7 to 13, depending on how modulation works). Set another delay to overlap it in the modulation range = 10+1 or +2 or +3 and modulate it.... keep thinking like this. Overlapping times create wild phase notches (comb filters)... pretty much the whole thing about TSC... no rocket science there.
Pan the 3 delays L/C/R.
Now you need to add the PRESET mode LFOs.
The first delays will be modulated by the algorithm internal LFOs which I believe run sine waves only.
Patch delay 1 time to system LFO or SINE and set how much you want to glide it.
Let's say you set it at 10 ms and its depth is 3 ms. The scaling (how much it's being modulated) ... try sweeping it in non-harmonic mode... no multiples of 2 or 3... so maybe 5 ms or even -5 ms. Keep the same thinking for patching delay 2 and 2 to SINE as well and offset scaling.
Tweak GLIDE in the MASTER delay menu.. or delay won't glide...just step with noises.

You need ear here!

Creative suggestions...
-try different waveforms for the PRESET mode patches... instead of SINE for all of them.
-Try adding a touch of feedback! Be gentle there... as delays from the same buffer are influenced by EVERY delay feedback in the same buffer! Careful.
-Try wilder patching like having the rates of the 3 delays and the rate of the system LFO being all slightly changed (modulated) by an unused waveform from the system LFO... morphing waveshaping there!
-Diffusion should stay at 0%... but it's worth experimenting it at low values for thicker and more analog like tone.
-Tweak the master hicut for gentler tone... go down to around 4 to 6 KHz... use ear...again.


ON ECLIPSE!!!

Load algorithm 106 : CHORUSDELAYS
you now have 4 modulated delay lines. Kill #4 level as you don't need it.
Pan delays 1/2/3 as L/C/R
set their delays and modulation depths as described in the PCM80/81 explanation
keep their rates the same or slightly offset them of 1 or 2 centesimal points (0.0x)
This creates the MANUAL MODE of the TSC. Keep rates moderately fast... definitely faster than what we're going to do next.
Now you have to create the PRESET mode patching each single DELAY1/2/3 parameter to the system LFO, under PARAMETER -> <EDIT MOD> -> <LFO#1>
Follow the PCM80/81 example for the patching. You can also use subtractive values for how much the LFO1 will sweep the delays (-3.5 ms instead of +3.5!). The scaling for each patch is how much the system LFO#1 will sweep the 3 fixed delays up or down.
You're going to have 3 sweeping delays being further swept.
On both the PCM80/81/Eclipse you can try sweeping the master delay /m_delay parameter INSTEAD of the 3 delays. A single patch between system LFO and master delay instead of 3 ones. Quicker, but not so surgical. Definitely nice to try.

Suggestions on Eclipse:
-try adding a second algorithm to the preset, in series... maybe a parametric EQ... to toneshape the chorus to your analog taste. Try both Eq>Chorus and Chorus>Eq.
-OR you can also use a dual pitch shifter after this chorus, in series, to create the classic '80s chorus>detune effect (-11/+13 cents L/R). Be careful with FX B MIX as you'll need to have an "in between" value, probably 50% to start with... to let the chorus pass thru (series) the detuners AND in parallel to them as in the original routing used back then.
-IF using a 4 voice shifter after the chorus...you'll also be able to add 2 delays, L&R, w/no shift... 250/500ms or 350/500ms or 600/610 ms... to get the whole picture of a great effect!!!

italo de angelis
04-19-2014, 11:15 AM
Cool stuff. You think your old preset could be approximated on an H9?


Too closed for the job for me!
You need to ask Eventide LOUD AND CLEAR you want the DynoMyPiano preset in the H9, from the big rack series.
It won't sound as good as my more recent V2 and V3 revisions :stir:banana:dude ... but certainly it will be a good start.
Definitely enough power in both the Factors and H9 to run it.
Get friends...a lot...and be vocal w/Eventide!
They may be intelligent enough to get the idea to sell the preset!

:dude:dude:dude

italo de angelis
04-19-2014, 11:16 AM
Great suggestion. Thank you kindly. :aok Ha! Now I'm going to be tweaking my Eclipse all day just to get a little closer. Damn you tri-stereo chorus! :p

I'll be in touch, Italo. Thanks again.


Well...
check a couple of posts above....
:bumpbump

Scott Auld
04-19-2014, 12:55 PM
Italo doesn't work for them.

Some of you guys need to join HRI.

Not going to happen. If you have to join another forum just to get enough information to know that someone on this forum doesn't work for the company they're talking about, maybe they need to be more clear about it as well.

Italo is a nice guy and has done a good job NOW in explaining that he does not work for the company, but trust me more than a few people have been confused about it. Stating that they have to join HRI in order to know that is ridiculous.

Italo, I updated your signature to make things crystal-clear.

Everyone have a nice weekend.

italo de angelis
04-19-2014, 01:50 PM
Not going to happen. If you have to join another forum just to get enough information to know that someone on this forum doesn't work for the company they're talking about, maybe they need to be more clear about it as well.

Italo is a nice guy and has done a good job NOW in explaining that he does not work for the company, but trust me more than a few people have been confused about it. Stating that they have to join HRI in order to know that is ridiculous.

Italo, I updated your signature to make things crystal-clear.

Everyone have a nice weekend.


Scott

two things...

-You may consider contacting your fellow moderator "big mike" as he seems to have a hard time understanding I do not work for Shiva. He even warned be as guilty of an infraction worth one point.
It's not that I won't live happy with it... but being totally wrong I have the right to have no issues like that.
It seems you understood the point when you first questioned the post.
I think the point about "going to HRI" wasn't about being the place where it would be clear I don't work for Shiva. It was very likely about the contributions I provide there.

-I don't think I need to have the statement you added to my signature.
IF you guys understand what I do and don't do... there's no point in it.
So I need it to be removed as I'm obliged to disclose what I do... not what I don't do. Please erase that!

johngreene
04-19-2014, 03:29 PM
I don't know why you would reply to my post with the details about the chips in the TERC.
My post wasn't about analog technology anyway.
Also you may want to state you work for Fulltone.
Apparently a lot of people thought the same as me regarding your post. I posted a couple of facts and opinions that I thought others may finding interesting/informative. I meant nothing negative toward you or what you were saying.
I work for myself, www.geadinc.com , and yes, I do consulting work for Fulltone. I also consult for other companies. I am co-inventor on a UWB radar medical device that is going to increase the success rate of lumpectomies on Breast tumors from ~70% to upwards of 95%. I am also a co-inventor of a spread-spectrum point to point radio data modem that blows the socks off any 802.11 device. I also designed and briefly sold a guitar pedal of my own. http://www.geadinc.com/GEAD/glasspak.htm It was the very first design to use a MOSFET transistor as a clipping device. I (foolishly?) disclosed it on another forum and many other pedal designers have used the idea quite successfully. Unfortunately I got nothing from it. http://archive.ampage.org/articles/0/fxgen/001579/Re_Overdrive_w_Dynamics.html
Once in 5th grade I cheated on a spelling test. I still got a 'B' so I guess I'm not very good at cheating.

Is that full enough disclosure for you?

--john

italo de angelis
04-19-2014, 03:41 PM
Apparently a lot of people thought the same as me regarding your post. I posted a couple of facts and opinions that I thought others may finding interesting/informative. I meant nothing negative toward you or what you were saying.
I work for myself, www.geadinc.com , and yes, I do consulting work for Fulltone. I also consult for other companies. I am co-inventor on a UWB radar medical device that is going to increase the success rate of lumpectomies on Breast tumors from ~70% to upwards of 95%. I am also a co-inventor of a spread-spectrum point to point radio data modem that blows the socks off any 802.11 device. I also designed and briefly sold a guitar pedal of my own. http://www.geadinc.com/GEAD/glasspak.htm It was the very first design to use a MOSFET transistor as a clipping device. I (foolishly?) disclosed it on another forum and many other pedal designers have used the idea quite successfully. Unfortunately I got nothing from it. http://archive.ampage.org/articles/0/fxgen/001579/Re_Overdrive_w_Dynamics.html
Once in 5th grade I cheated on a spelling test. I still got a 'B' so I guess I'm not very good at cheating.

Is that full enough disclosure for you?

--john


Disclosures (not CVs) are forums problems. They want them.
So, if that's the case, one should state if there's any involvement with a product, particularly if a thread you are posting to has that product as subject.
I had to spend a day telling I do not work for a company and discussing w/moderators... and you, who are directly involved in the TERC production and don't disclose that, get the easy way.
How weird is that?