Acoustic Preamps

[zephaniah zion]

I know, I know, the Acoustic Instruments section but this section gets way more play and attention. Lets get one things straight though, I know absolutely nothing of acoustic preamps. I am assuming the Boss units and BBE Acoustimax units are preamps but outside of that, I know nada. Lets keep the price around$200 or $300. Feel free to run wild with this one as long as we stay on topic with ACOUSTIC PREAMPS. Please, not trying to learn about Strymon or M9s!!!:D

P.S. Doesn't Cornish make an acoustic preamp?:bow

[jeffinaustin]

I've used the LR Bagga Paracoustic DI for 10+ years and it sounds great. They have a new unit called the Venue TNT adds a tuner, mute, and boost and it is great too.

Lot depends on your pickup choice. I've always used passive pickups. If you have active electronics in your guitar it may or may not be as good an option.

[jeffinaustin]

That should say Venue "DI". Stupid iPhone spellchecker :-)

[peridot1]

The Fishman Aura Spectrum (http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fishman-Aura-Spectrum-DI?sku=580219) is where I'd go if I had an electric acoustic. Heard it's the best. I have regular acoustics though so I mic it through a mic preamp>effects. Would love to try that Fishman though.

[zephaniah zion]

Sorry guys, I should have added that I am playing a 94'/95' HD-28 acoustic. My Uncle had a pickup installed (bridge transducer or body mount) I believe, but I don't know what it is. He died a year ago. It might be a Fishman if that helps.:D

[kludge]

The Baggs Para Acoustic DI is really good. Then again, so is a plain ol' passive DI box.

The pickup makes FAR more difference than the DI. If you're trying to make a junky Fishman sound less like a duck with a headcold, the DI isn't going to pull it off. B-Band, K&K, and Baggs all make pickups that are reasonably feedback-resistant and sound roughly a bazillion times better than the undersaddle piezos everyone uses.

Also, when you're live through a PA, you don't hear the subtleties of nice guitars... you hear pickup. A $3000 Taylor with a cheap undersaddle sounds like a $300 Washburn with a cheap undersaddle to the audience. (on the flip side, the other day I played a borrowed $300 Washburn at a gig that had a B-Band, and got to hear other people playing it, and I was pleasantly surprised at how good it sounded)

[drjordan]

...The pickup makes FAR more difference than the DI. If you're trying to make a junky Fishman sound less like a duck with a headcold, the DI isn't going to pull it off. B-Band, K&K, and Baggs all make pickups that are reasonably feedback-resistant and sound roughly a bazillion times better than the undersaddle piezos everyone uses....

+1

I really like the K&K stuff. I have one in each of my acoustics (a Martin 000-1 and a Collings D2HG) and one in my resonator (a Beard Vintage R). You do need to know what kind of pickup you're using though. The impedance on the K&K will be different than on an LR Baggs. Mixing an LR Baggs Para DI (although a great preamp/DI) with a K&K pickup did not provide great results...I traded my Para DI for a K&K Pure XLR preamp/DI; the guy I traded with found that the opposite combination wasn't a good one either. But you need to know what pickup you're using and get a good preamp to match it. I recommend K&K though.

[zephaniah zion]

The Baggs Para Acoustic DI is really good. Then again, so is a plain ol' passive DI box.

The pickup makes FAR more difference than the DI. If you're trying to make a junky Fishman sound less like a duck with a headcold, the DI isn't going to pull it off. B-Band, K&K, and Baggs all make pickups that are reasonably feedback-resistant and sound roughly a bazillion times better than the undersaddle piezos everyone uses.

Also, when you're live through a PA, you don't hear the subtleties of nice guitars... you hear pickup. A $3000 Taylor with a cheap undersaddle sounds like a $300 Washburn with a cheap undersaddle to the audience. (on the flip side, the other day I played a borrowed $300 Washburn at a gig that had a B-Band, and got to hear other people playing it, and I was pleasantly surprised at how good it sounded)

+1

I really like the K&K stuff. I have one in each of my acoustics (a Martin 000-1 and a Collings D2HG) and one in my resonator (a Beard Vintage R). You do need to know what kind of pickup you're using though. The impedance on the K&K will be different than on an LR Baggs. Mixing an LR Baggs Para DI (although a great preamp/DI) with a K&K pickup did not provide great results...I traded my Para DI for a K&K Pure XLR preamp/DI; the guy I traded with found that the opposite combination wasn't a good one either. But you need to know what pickup you're using and get a good preamp to match it. I recommend K&K though.

Thanks guys! The more I am looking into it, its the Cornish unit or a really good DI from somebody else. I don't want effects and the pickup on this guitar is pretty good. Just does not drive loud enough for some of the crappy systems I play through. I also need to get a nicer than rubber soundhole cover for some of these places.

[zephaniah zion]

Whatever this current pickup is, it is active. Forgot to mention that as well. Checked the K&K site and liked what I saw. Many will disagree but I hate having a battery in a guitar, acoustic or electric. Just seems wrong! I am gonna go with a Pure Mini passive pickup and never look back. Thanks guys.

[kludge]

I agree on not having a battery!

One of my pickup-equipped acoustics has a passive K&K and sounds great live. The other has a Baggs M1A active magnetic. It also sounds great. The Baggs replaced a dreadful, dull, bloated-sounding Seymour Duncan Woody.

My biggest gripes with the Baggs are a: it's ugly, and b: it's very sensitive to the top of the guitar, so it can be sort of "noisy" in that it amplifies non-playing sounds. But it's also more feedback-resistant than the K&K, and sounds almost as natural.

My dream pickup is a Sunrise, but they're hard to come by and very expensive.

[zephaniah zion]

Sunrise eh? Never heard of them. I learn more everyday!:D

[Danox3]

http://whirlwindusa.com/catalog/black-boxes-effects-and-dis/effects/commander2

http://whirlwindusa.com/media/uploads/commander2_top_600w.jpg
http://whirlwindusa.com/catalog/black-boxes-effects-and-dis/effects/commander2#image-0

[bbrunskill]

Good thread!

I need at least a good DI, I have nice acoustics with great Pickups (Cole Clark with the Cole Clark pickup system and a Lowden with the Baggs M1a)

However, I use an old DOD DI box and I'm pretty sure it must compromise the tone somewhat. Is a preamp really nessacary? Or shoud I just get a good DI box?

[kludge]

I actually think a passive DI box works just fine for most purposes, especially in a rock band context. But get one with a phase switch... that's your first line of defense for feedback control.

[spence]

Take a good look at the Headway preamp. It kills.

[10strings]

The best I've tried is a Sansamp Para Driver Di. I also have the acoustic di. The both sound the same and pretty much do the same thing.

[zephaniah zion]

Very good stuff guys. Thanks for the info and keeping the thread on topic.:D

[TheFlash]

I agree on the pickup being really important. Check out DTAR for both good pickups and good preamps. I have a wavelength in my taylor and I feel that it blows away the expression system for a band-context acoustic sound. I also like b-band pickups a lot, but the dtar is my current favorite.

[foo_3001]

I´ve been using the DTar Mama Bear for some three years now,

been real happy with it (I use UE in-ear monitoring), and all the sound guys have been liking it a lot. It does add a 1K peak to the sound though, no matter how you set it, but it can be dialed out from the FOH / monitoring consoles.

[lux_interior]

For many years I was playing with a piezo as an after market add-on to my acoustic (http://www.deanmarkley.com/Pickups/SweetSpot.shtml) and it produced great results with a compressor which also played the part of amplifying the signal. However, you have to be careful with the feedback, and I was sometimes using the feedback suppressor (and occasionally some effects) of an ancient - but good - Zoom 504 Acoustic. It will be a very good idea to have something that does this.

Plus, piezos can sound thin, and one great solution to that problem is this: http://www.fishman.com/products/details.asp?id=46 It blends in the sound of a mic. Unfortunately, it takes batteries (miniature ones) but they last for months and it sounds amazing. I know it comes highly recommended from friends and people from other forums.

[62Tele]

I have K&K Pure Western Minis in two flatops and really like them. Sometimes I blend them with w Baggs M1 active - at stage/band volumes, the K&K's can feedback so mixing the magnetic works really well. The Headway EDB-1 is the best sounding preamp I've found so far. I also have a Carl Martin Parameteric EQ pedal that works very well in a Stompbox format.

[TenneyThe2nd]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Avalon U5... I thought that was the industry standard...

[lux_interior]

I think I misunderstood the topic, and I commented on pickups... My experience is limited on preamps specific for acoustic guitars, sorry.

[kludge]

I think I misunderstood the topic, and I commented on pickups... My experience is limited on preamps specific for acoustic guitars, sorry.

I think it's a reasonable topic shift... heck, I probably started it. My whole take is that pickups matter WAY more than preamps for getting good acoustic guitar tone onstage, and that money spent on a fancy DI might be better spent on a better pickup.

And it was all mixed in with my borderline contempt for undersaddle piezo quack...

[TenneyThe2nd]

I think it's a reasonable topic shift... heck, I probably started it. My whole take is that pickups matter WAY more than preamps for getting good acoustic guitar tone onstage, and that money spent on a fancy DI might be better spent on a better pickup.

And it was all mixed in with my borderline contempt for undersaddle piezo quack...

Yeah, I'm defintely going to do some more research on pickups now... I'm still using a quacky undersaddle and was thinking about selling my KOT for a U5 or at least a Para DI...

[kludge]

Yeah, I'm defintely going to do some more research on pickups now... I'm still using a quacky undersaddle and was thinking about selling my KOT for a U5 or at least a Para DI...

For the cost of a Para DI, you could pick up a Baggs M1 active pickup and a cheap used passive DI and get better sound than the undersaddle + Para DI combo.

[TenneyThe2nd]

My guitar has a Fishman Blender PreAmp in it. I have a Martin 00016C-GTE. Are you saying I should get the M1 even though my guitar has a preamp in it?

[62Tele]

I just don't dig undersaddle pickups. I play side and bad things happen. I find the contact pickups and magnetics all have their limitations, but they re more tolerable to me than the piezo sound. None of them are condenser mics.

Preamps are pretty important. How much as compred to the pickup? I wouldn't know how to quantify. But acoustic guitar amplification is really a system and matching the preamp to the pickup and your playing style is pretty important.

[zephaniah zion]

I think I misunderstood the topic, and I commented on pickups... My experience is limited on preamps specific for acoustic guitars, sorry.
Lux, keep it coming. I just want to learn more and understand. This HD-28 sounds epic over the knee but does not give me what I want plugged in. I only aim to recreate as accurately as possible how it sounds naturally without sticking a mic in front of it.:D
I think it's a reasonable topic shift... heck, I probably started it. My whole take is that pickups matter WAY more than preamps for getting good acoustic guitar tone onstage, and that money spent on a fancy DI might be better spent on a better pickup.
And it was all mixed in with my borderline contempt for undersaddle piezo quack...

I am learning this I think. The pickup is not bad right now but requires a battery and I change strings often but, the battery dies even faster.:D