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Demioblue
08-10-2010, 05:43 AM
Just brought my Edwards home. This is a LP130LTS/RE. It's reliced, but it's not completely beat up. The finish is quite well done, and sunken. It's a one piece body, and it's super light! 7.6lbs!!! The top is killer, but I'm damned sure it's a veneer. (peeked at the layer under the pups.)

Factory Pic:
http://www.espguitars.co.jp/edwards/lp/image/E-LP-130LTS_TSB.jpg

Specs:
BODY (Top) Flame Maple (Back) Mahogany w/Ivory Binding
NECK Mahogany
FINGERBORAD Rosewood, 22frets w/ Ivory Binding
RADIUS 305R
SCALE 24.75 inch (628mm)
NUT Bone (43mm)
INLAY Pearloid Dish
JOINT Set-neck
TUNER GOTOH SD90-SL
BRIDGE Old Type Tune-Matic & GOTOH GE101Z
PICKUPS (Front) Seymour Duncan ANTIQUITY
(Rear) Seymour Duncan ANTIQUITY
PARTS COLOR Nickel

Here's some pics...

Headstock Shot:
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/members/goldtop75-albums-goldtop-s-lesters-picture29469-p8100477.jpg

Bone nut:
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/members/goldtop75-albums-goldtop-s-lesters-picture29470-p8100476.jpg

Sharp Inlays:
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/members/goldtop75-albums-goldtop-s-lesters-picture29471-p8100469.jpg

Top hump carve: This is a bit weird. It's not completely round like the USA Les Pauls or Modern Historics. It's a little angled, and looks a bit more triangular than I expected, but that's the standard shape for these models.
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/members/goldtop75-albums-goldtop-s-lesters-picture29472-p8100474.jpg

Bottom Horn: Also a bit sharper than modern Les Pauls. More common with 70s Norlin shapes.
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/members/goldtop75-albums-goldtop-s-lesters-picture29473-p8100473.jpg

Pretty aggressive top carve ala Historics or vintage top carves:
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/members/goldtop75-albums-goldtop-s-lesters-picture29475-p8100472.jpg

Aged Japan Gotoh Parts:
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/members/goldtop75-albums-goldtop-s-lesters-picture29476-p8100479.jpg

Here's an interesting pic. The body is actually thicker by 1mm compared to a USA Les Paul. Though on the pic the USA (bottom right) looks like the main cause is the optical illusion that the USA binding is thicker, which it is, but I did measure both of them using a calliper, and the Edwards is indeed thicker!
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/members/goldtop75-albums-goldtop-s-lesters-picture29474-p8100471.jpg

Here's the killer top! (which is sadly a veneer)
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/members/goldtop75-albums-goldtop-s-lesters-picture29477-p8100475.jpg

And the full body shot:
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/members/goldtop75-albums-goldtop-s-lesters-picture29466-p8100467.jpg

Compare that with the USA Lightburst:
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/members/goldtop75-albums-goldtop-s-lesters-picture29467-p8100486.jpg

See the obvious differences in the plastic colour? The LP130 is pretty accurate overall as a '59 clone. With everything the guitar offers, and the price I got it at (approx USD$800), this is an absolute killer guitar! The weight!!! That natural woody tone!!!

The main thing is that the frets are a bit low for my liking. I might have to have it refretted, which also means I might have to end up changing the nut too... Oh well... Lets see how it goes. It's already got an RS modern kit in there to match the antiquities, but the pups are also going to come out to make way for some killer Skatterbrane pups!:naughty:

P.S. yes yes, I know that TRC needs to go too...

B Money
08-10-2010, 09:21 AM
Hawt

GuitarTone
08-10-2010, 09:51 AM
Very cool guitar, all the best with it.

So how does it compare to your Gibson?

Gas-man
08-10-2010, 11:56 AM
One of the interesting idiosyncracies of gear geeks is that even if this guitar was equal to or better than a Gibson that would never be accepted as fact simply because of how much it cost and where it was made.

If someone was smart, they would buy up a bunch of Edwards, re-do them just enough to be un-identifiable and start their own boo-teek shop with a website full of attitudinal quips.

Dudes would shell out thousands for them and then post about how "This kills any R9".

Demioblue
08-10-2010, 08:27 PM
Very cool guitar, all the best with it.

So how does it compare to your Gibson?

It's lighter, that's for sure. Honestly, this isn't my first edwards. But this is the first one I've got that is made to match a 59. Blindfolded, I would probably prefer this one over the Gibsons I have. I even wish my Gibsons felt like this. I also wish my Gibsons were built like this. Lightweight, long tenon, good hardware, sharp inlays etc etc. (came with pretty interesting caps) I only wish this Edwards came with the taller frets, non-veneer top and proper binding (fret-wise).

So there are plus and minuses... But I bet you, I've never tried any historic LP that weighs this little, and is still solid!

However, currently the Skatterbranes I have in my Gibsons are killing the Antiquities in the Edwards. Let me throw another set in there first and I'll let you know apple to apple.

GuitarTone
08-11-2010, 03:58 AM
One of the interesting idiosyncracies of gear geeks is that even if this guitar was equal to or better than a Gibson that would never be accepted as fact simply because of how much it cost and where it was made.
.

100% correct.

And, don't forget the "investment story", the one about how a Gibson is an investment with better resale value....meanwhile the same guitarist just spent $20,000 on a car that loses value every day he drives it, but he's concerned about possibly losing $300.00 on a his Japanese Les Paul if and when he decides to sell it.

C-4
08-11-2010, 05:54 AM
For the price, no one can beat an Edwards. I've had Tokai's and Edwards, and each have their strong points, but for what you paid, you got a great guitar.

I've owned and played many Gibsons since 1955. It takes a lot longer for me to find a great R9, then it does to find a great Edwards.

Recenty I hit the wall on Gibsons, Fenders and american guitars and amps in general, sold them all and now only play European high-end custom guitars and amps. I don't miss the american gear at all. There are some terrific luthiers in america building great guitars, such as Thorne, but the European builders I use are just as good, and I like their work better.
If I was to get another LP, I would have Gil Yaron build me a replica.

slowerhand
08-11-2010, 10:49 AM
Where did you buy it? I've been looking at this too but with the Japanese online retailers it seems to go around 100,000 Yen. Add in at least 100 US for shipping, the customs charges, and you're looking at 1300-1400 USD.

Too bad about the veneer, by the way. And to say I'm not even very fond of flame -- give me a plain top any time. I'm surprised also you don't like the Antiquities. Going by the reviews, I thought they were the creme de la creme.

HHB
08-11-2010, 12:00 PM
really cool. I'm all about these MIJs. the weight is really a selling point for me

pitseleh
08-11-2010, 12:02 PM
It's nice! I have no concept of how an unrelieved, one-piece body could be so light, though! That's nuts.

As for where he got it, I'm guessing the domestic used market. There's one in the Emporium, along with a Telecaster-type from the same series, for roughly what he paid. Both seem like phenomenal deals, given the high-end stock hardware and Edwards' reputation for craftsmanship. Too bad I'm set as far as Teles and LPs go!

I do wish they'd offer this guitar without the relicing though, and maybe with a plain top. I guess I'm one of the few people here who just don't really get the whole 59 thing.

slowerhand
08-11-2010, 08:59 PM
Here's some more info about this geeeetar:

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/other-les-pauls/14953-new-edwards-lp-130-pics.html

And here's a really good side-by-side comparison against a 1960 VOS:

http://www.petelacis.com/2008/11/05/gibson-les-paul-vos-1960-vs-edwards-les-paul-lp130/

I wish Edwards or Tokai would make a top of the line ebony LP Standard, I'd buy that in a heartbeat.

jetdriver
08-11-2010, 10:09 PM
Yeah, I want an Edwards. I have a USMC friends stationed in Japan, that can probably bring one home with him, if I send him the funds. Hmmmm.

Guitar Dave T
08-11-2010, 11:38 PM
Nice axe. Was going to bid on the same model this evening but the guy who was going to buy another instrument I have (Burny LP) delayed the purchase and I missed the Fleabay auction close.

With its solid nitro finish and long neck tenon it tryly is the best of the copies, IMO.

I'm with you though - I prefer taller frets. Both ESP Edwards and Fernandez Burny have the same low frets, similar to the original LP Custom "Fretless Wonder".

Demioblue
08-12-2010, 04:17 AM
Where did you buy it? I've been looking at this too but with the Japanese online retailers it seems to go around 100,000 Yen. Add in at least 100 US for shipping, the customs charges, and you're looking at 1300-1400 USD.

Too bad about the veneer, by the way. And to say I'm not even very fond of flame -- give me a plain top any time. I'm surprised also you don't like the Antiquities. Going by the reviews, I thought they were the creme de la creme.

Yup, I got it from a local store. Singapore stores do sell Edwards guitars, though I've not really come across many 130s. I've seen the Jimmy Page one before though. That was around for a while because of the price.

While it was used, you can't really tell the condition because it's reliced. But the fretwear was non-existant. It's almost as if the original owner never played it!

I don't dislike the Antiquities. They are nice. Just not clear enough for my liking. I've AB-ed it with my Skatterbrane Earthbranes in my chambered standard, and the Eartbranes are far clearer, and more dynamic. The Antiquities sound dull compared to that, which is odd, because the chambering on the standard ups the mids, but doesn't add clarity, as observed from my previous sets on that same guitar. Solid Les Pauls tend to be a little more compressed, and less mid-rangey. But the Antiquities on this guitar sounds like it's so compressed that there's very little dynamics, and very rounded, which is nice, but I can't get the same level of responsiveness.

However, it is important to note that Antiquities, as vaunted as they are, are not consistant. This might not have been a nice set. I'm sure someone would like them more than I would.

I'll be going for a set of Skatterbrane's new Jysmbranes. A3s. Symmetrical wind. Uncovered.

Check out them tones here: SKATTERBRANE (http://diystomp.ojaru.jp/SKATTERBRANE.html) (them clips are at the bottom)

GORGEOUS TONES!!!!!!!!!

gassyndrome
08-12-2010, 06:15 AM
With its solid nitro finish and long neck tenon it tryly is the best of the copies, IMO.



Navigators and high end Tokai's FTW!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/sjboyes/IMG_0058.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/sjboyes/IMG_0184.jpg

Demioblue
08-12-2010, 08:50 AM
Navigators and high end Tokai's FTW!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/sjboyes/IMG_0058.jpg


That's HOT!!!! Navigator?:bow

Almost as hot as my other beauty!

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/members/goldtop75-albums-goldtop-s-lesters-picture23607-img-0502.jpg

Black, that is...:D

Just kidding... That Navigator is hot for sure...:Devil

kingsxman
08-12-2010, 08:51 AM
Looks like a great guitar. Its got me interested in one possibly...
My biggest concern is if one day I'll just say...Damn..which i'd just bought a Gibson.

GuitarTone
08-12-2010, 09:44 AM
With its solid nitro finish and long neck tenon it tryly is the best of the copies, IMO.



Made in China, assembled in Japan, and truly the best of the copies...you sure Dave?

Someone will have to convince me it has a long neck tenon...until I've seen a photo of an Edwards showing the long tenon in the neck pickup cavity I won't believe it.
If I see that photo I'll believe it.

BTW, here's what a medium neck tenon looks like...let's see how long the Edwards long neck tenon is.

http://a.imageshack.us/img152/8781/mediumtenonoftokais.jpg

slowerhand
08-12-2010, 10:04 AM
Check out them tones here: SKATTERBRANE (http://diystomp.ojaru.jp/SKATTERBRANE.html) (them clips are at the bottom)

GORGEOUS TONES!!!!!!!!!

Wow, that does sound amazing.

Demioblue
08-12-2010, 10:13 AM
Someone will have to convince me it has a long neck tenon...until I've seen a photo of an Edwards showing the long tenon in the neck pickup cavity I won't believe it.
If I see that photo I'll believe it.

BTW, here's what a medium neck tenon looks like...let's see how long the Edwards long neck tenon is.


Not a very clear pic, but does this count?

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm82/gibiphone/Edwards/DSC00372.jpg

Or this?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/Leidolfr/Edwards%20E-LP%2098LTS/DSC_5098.jpg

And one more?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v710/DeadSkinMarc/longtenon2.jpg

RedTiger
08-12-2010, 10:28 AM
Someone will have to convince me it has a long neck tenon...until I've seen a photo of an Edwards showing the long tenon in the neck pickup cavity I won't believe it.
If I see that photo I'll believe it.


Demioblue did the work for you, but you could have convinced yourself. :rotflmao There's pictures of the Edwards neck pup cavity all over the place.

GuitarTone
08-12-2010, 10:36 AM
These are long neck tenons, are these photos of your Edwards model or a higher end model?

Not a very clear pic, but does this count?

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm82/gibiphone/Edwards/DSC00372.jpg

Or this?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/Leidolfr/Edwards%20E-LP%2098LTS/DSC_5098.jpg

And one more?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v710/DeadSkinMarc/longtenon2.jpg

Demioblue
08-12-2010, 10:45 AM
These are long neck tenons, are these photos of your Edwards model or a higher end model?

I haven't opened up mine to do the pup changes yet. But that first pic is of another lp130 (same model as mine) on the mylespaul forum. The 2nd one is a lp98 also from the same forum. The last one is either a 98 or 92 from the tokai registry forum. A simple google yielded those 3 pics.

P.s. The lp130 is the top of the line Edwards model to date. The only one finished in full nitro.

RedTiger
08-12-2010, 10:47 AM
That would be what you find in LP-92 all the way up to the LP-130.

Seriously, why is a long tenon so unbelievable?

Edwards guitars, like other ESPs, sub-brands, and some other Japanese manufacturers, are not producing X amount of guitars a year based on a sales forcast and letting them sit in a warehouse until sold. They're produced as required by demand ordered by retailers and they are typically manufactured in any number of factories based on workload.

Last I heard about Edwards, per ESP, some are CnC'ed and finished in China, others in a factory in Japan. The factory in China rotates Japanese workers in and out from Japan. All of them are wired and fitted in Tokyo. There's no way to tell where it is was originally made. ESP doesn't seem to think it's that big of a deal. ;)

Point is, when their manufactured like this, a long neck tenon probably isn't a big deal.

GuitarTone
08-12-2010, 10:50 AM
Then it's official, Edwards have long neck tenons...congratulations to all Edwards owners. :) :bow

The reason they're so light is because they use Asian Mahogany instead of Honduran or African Mahogany.
It's cheaper....it also much lighter.

Technically, it isn't actual Mahogany, but a closely related species.

GiddyHitch
08-12-2010, 11:41 AM
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/members/goldtop75-albums-goldtop-s-lesters-picture23607-img-0502.jpg

A similar shot of my Edwards ...

http://a.imageshack.us/img41/7568/edwards2.jpg

jbbusybee
08-12-2010, 02:01 PM
I feel sick reading this post I sold my LTS-130 last year.

Big mistake, one of the best guitars i ever owned!!!!!!!

chequepoint
08-12-2010, 03:25 PM
I love the mythology that has evolved.. "No way could someone make a guitar with a long neck tennon at that price".

Gibson went to the short tennon because they discovered they could put them together a few minutes faster that way. As in.. it probably shaves $5 off the total cost of the guitar, not $2000. It wasn't until years later when the internet made short tennons bad that they were able to leverage that extra 5 minute of labor into a several thousand dollar historic "Feature".

Here's another secret, that great big fat funny shaped tennon they're using now on the standards, is being used because it's even FASTER to put together since it's a giant puzzle piece, and they have the CNC precision to do it. They're hanging onto the old rocker tennon because it's a marketing feature on the traditionals..

Guitar Dave T
08-12-2010, 03:41 PM
Made in China, assembled in Japan, and truly the best of the copies...you sure Dave?

Someone will have to convince me it has a long neck tenon...until I've seen a photo of an Edwards showing the long tenon in the neck pickup cavity I won't believe it.
If I see that photo I'll believe it.


Demioblue already posted some, but I too have done some extensive research on the brand. Their low end model is the 92 with what is probably a poly finish, middle is 98 with nitro over poly, top is 130 with all nitro. All 3 models have long neck tenons. At least every neck pup cavity photo I've seen on line has the same long neck tenons that Demioblue's photos show.

ESP has moved their Edwards body assembly plant to China, but it is overseen by a crew, not just a single supervisor, of the same Japanese craftspeople who previously worked in their Japanese factory.

Either way, they score some of the highest reviews of any of the copies since the late 70's - 1980 Tokai Reborns.

Guitar Dave T
08-12-2010, 03:46 PM
I love the mythology that has evolved.. "No way could someone make a guitar with a long neck tennon at that price".

Gibson went to the short tennon because they discovered they could put them together a few minutes faster that way. As in.. it probably shaves $5 off the total cost of the guitar, not $2000. It wasn't until years later when the internet made short tennons bad that they were able to leverage that extra 5 minute of labor into a several thousand dollar historic "Feature".

Here's another secret, that great big fat funny shaped tennon they're using now on the standards, is being used because it's even FASTER to put together since it's a giant puzzle piece, and they have the CNC precision to do it. They're hanging onto the old rocker tennon because it's a marketing feature on the traditionals..

True. The other problem with the traditional long tennon was it wasn't as easy to adjust the neck angle correctly as the short, ball tennons. With poor quality of process controls, the traditionals tennons were costing a lot more in rejected guitars that had considerably more than 5 minutes labor invested in them.

Guitar Dave T
08-12-2010, 03:59 PM
Then it's official, Edwards have long neck tenons...congratulations to all Edwards owners. :) :bow

The reason they're so light is because they use Asian Mahogany instead of Honduran or African Mahogany.
It's cheaper....it also much lighter.

Technically, it isn't actual Mahogany, but a closely related species.

Actually, it's Honduran Mahogany that isn't the true Mahogany, but a different species. The term "Mahogany" was applied to it over the past century. True Mahogany originally came from both Cuba and the West Indies.

But it's all a mute point - both varieties are now considered "true mahogany", and BOTH are planted, grown and harvested in Asia, starting in the early 90's. In fact, ALL non-protected Mahogany now comes from these plantations. Tonal and weight properties of both vary not according to which variety of mahagony as much as moisture content of the tree, both throughout its growth and from top to bottom. Both varieties can come in heavy or light. Lighter weight guitars are popular with manufacturers now because they are popular with buyers, just like heavy-assed Les Pauls were all the rage in the late 70's (more balls and sustain, man!).

Gas-man
08-12-2010, 05:03 PM
So that's two strikes: long neck tenon and the "not real" mahagony.

What else you Gibson guys got that can be shot down? :D


:boxer

RedTiger
08-12-2010, 06:01 PM
The tenon is *yet another* box to check in some sort of guitar pissing contest. I like how the check boxes have stuff that no one would intuitively think make a "better" playing guitar.

Actually, it's Honduran Mahogany that isn't the true Mahogany, but a different species. The term "Mahogany" was applied to it over the past century. True Mahogany originally came from both Cuba and the West Indies.

But it's all a mute point - both varieties are now considered "true mahogany", and BOTH are planted, grown and harvested in Asia, starting in the early 90's. In fact, ALL non-protected Mahogany now comes from these plantations. Tonal and weight properties of both vary not according to which variety of mahagony as much as moisture content of the tree, both throughout its growth and from top to bottom. Both varieties can come in heavy or light. Lighter weight guitars are popular with manufacturers now because they are popular with buyers, just like heavy-assed Les Pauls were all the rage in the late 70's (more balls and sustain, man!).

Thank you for this. I knew he opened a can of worms on that one as there's been quite a bit of research into the mahogany in those Edwards, but I just didn't have the details to comment intelligently.

Demioblue
08-12-2010, 08:44 PM
The reason they're so light is because they use Asian Mahogany instead of Honduran or African Mahogany.
It's cheaper....it also much lighter.

Technically, it isn't actual Mahogany, but a closely related species.

Not quite either. Honduran mahogany goes by the species name of swietenia macrophylla. Specifically. There are other branches of swietenia, but macrophylla is specifically Honduran. Macrophylla also grows in plantations in Fiji and Indonesia. Same climate belt as Honduras, different country, but make no mistake: "Asian" mahogany is the same species. I'm not a real botanist, Though, just to qualify.

As to why it's lighter, this could come from one of 2 reasons. No way of telling though.

1. The trunk used is relatively young, and has not grown to be as dense.

2. The part of the trunk used could be the outer rings which are not as dense as the inner core.

Demioblue
08-12-2010, 08:50 PM
So that's two strikes: long neck tenon and the "not real" mahagony.

What else you Gibson guys got that can be shot down? :D


:boxer

Hang on. 4 Gibson les pauls say that I'm a Gibson guy myself. But I can assure you, having owned 2 Edwards guitars, that the eds are pretty good clones, but still missing the mark slightly. For some reason, even my 130 doesn't ring as nicely or sustains as well as my standard, much less to say my historic. You want a real contender at a good price? Check out FGN lespauls. Absolutely killer!

83stratman
08-12-2010, 09:04 PM
I'll take an EPI Elitist over the Edwards I owned all day!

Guitar Dave T
08-12-2010, 09:24 PM
Epi Elitists are made in the Fujigen gakki factory in Japan, home of Ibanez, FGN guitars, Fernandez, Burny, the 80's/early 90's Fender Japan reissues, and probably more private label associates than we'll ever know.

Fujigen also has factories in Korea and China. Finishout and consistent quality at Fujigen is outstanding, regardless of which factory, with better electronics, long neck tennons and nitro finishes reserved for their better lines in Japan.

Still, there are going to be variances, based on variances in wood and the fact that many of their instruments are still hand assembled. By variances, I do not mean poor quality as in badly applied finishes and fret jobs. They just each have their own ring to them, some being truly amazing, others being just amazing.

Not sure about the ESP/Edwards guitars yet, but based on similar approach and materials (almost all the MIJ's with flame tops are veneer, which makes a strong case for finding an older plain top), I would expect similar results.

GuitarTone
08-13-2010, 03:16 AM
(almost all the MIJ's with flame tops are veneer)
My passion is for my brand, and in my mind no other brand can be better...I'm obviously completely biased...but that's understandable.

With regards to MIJ veneered flame tops.
LS150 AAA, LS260, LS420, LS540, all solid flame tops.
Below, an LS260 5A solid flame top.

http://a.imageshack.us/img709/508/ls2605avf1.jpg

ethomas1013
08-13-2010, 03:25 AM
Someone will have to convince me it has a long neck tenon...until I've seen a photo of an Edwards showing the long tenon in the neck pickup cavity I won't believe it.
If I see that photo I'll believe it.

Here's the neck tenon from the Edwards Jimmy Page relic I once owned. I also owned a 130 model for a while and it also had a long neck tenon.

Both were great sounding/playing guitars by the way. Neither one had quite the same "girth" as a Gibson, but in a band context you would never tell the difference. Sold both because I prefer a larger neck profile, and in general I'm not a fan of the LP ergonomics. Both guitars were every bit a good as the LP Standard I had. A friend and I did an A/B comparison with the Jimmy Page relic and his R9. We both preferred the R9 tonally, but they were much closer than you would imagine. For the money, I would choose an Edwards over an LP Standard if I were in the LP market. But if money were no object, I'd be looking at the Gibson Historic guitars.

http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Eethomas/jp_relic_tenon.jpg

Demioblue
08-13-2010, 04:01 AM
http://a.imageshack.us/img709/508/ls2605avf1.jpg

That's sweet! And how much would that cost? I saw tokais in japan that came stock with Tom holmes japan j453s and gorgeous flatsawn plain tops! And they cost about usd $1800.

JLee
08-13-2010, 06:15 AM
I wasn't impressed by the 2 Edwards I owned, one being a 130. Construction is flawless, but they're lacking in tone compared to a good Gibson or copy. My particular guitars lacked girth, sustain and output. The 130 I had, received a slew of mods, e.g. higher output pickups, Tone Pros bridge and tailpiece, new caps and pots. None of this changed the tone at all surprisingly.

The 80s Burny I owned, had poorer workmanship, but sounded more like a Les Paul. Compared to my '02 Tokai LS-200...absolutely no contest.