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View Full Version : Thiele Cabinet-When is it the appropriate cabinet choice?


MJ Slaughter
08-24-2010, 09:46 AM
Looking for a 1x12 cabinet to fit under my 18.5" wide combo, Mesa DC-3. I like the size of the Thiele and everyone seems to praise it saying it has tight chest thumping bass but at the same time I'm concerned that it may be too tight sounding for a lot of the classic rock and modern country I do. Is a Thiele, or other ported guitar cabinets, better suited for a particular style of music or is it a good all around cabinet when you want something compact?

zerocharisma
08-24-2010, 10:41 AM
I'm also interested in any info on this :D

Primakurtz
08-24-2010, 01:23 PM
In my usually-ignorant opinion, good ported cabs are great for any application. They just sound bigger & better to my ears.

I believe that "Thiele" is not a synonym for "ported", though- doesn't it refer to a specific design, meant for certain speakers? Usually the classic EV12?

TFC
08-24-2010, 01:55 PM
I had a Mesa Thiele (EV12L) for a short time to use under my Mesa MkIV combo. I found it to be very directional - great difference in volume depending upon whether your ears were directly in front of it or to the side. And if it's on the ground under your combo, only your ankles will hear it. Just something to keep in mind.

It did add some low end, but it wasn't quite what I was looking for. For me, a 2x12 would have been more suitable. And I believe Thiele refers to the design, which includes a ported front.

Jef Bardsley
08-24-2010, 02:00 PM
Sadly, "Thiele" has become a synonym for ported bass reflex designs. The irony is, Thiele was a filter designer who saw the work of James Novak (of Jensen) and, recognising the basic math was a form of filter, expanded it to include about 2 dozen equivalent alignments. Sorta like Mel Bay asking someone to transcribe all the Beatle's tunes in Eb for horn players. Do you think the transcriber would be given credit for writing the songs?

Mesa offered a cabinet based on a free ElectroVoice design, and called it the Thiele Cabinet. The irony here is, the EV design was based on an alignment by their own D B Keele, not on one by Thiele.

Anyway.... MJ, a ported cabinet will work for any music. It's the speaker that's in it that might make it more suitable to a particular style. Thing is, for the port to work properly it needs a speaker with the same specs as what is was designed for.

The original EV design was meant for the EVM12-L. Using other speakers in it will either make no difference (ie, the ports will do next to nothing), sorta work (the ports might increase the bass, but it might be overdamped or boomy), or worst case - it will unload the speaker below it's resonance and allow so much excursion the speaker hurts itself when high power is applied. (note the EVM12 and most Celestions are an octave apart in their resonace - the EV is below a guitar's low E and the Celestions tend to have a resonance higher than low E - they're very different speakers in design and construction)

MJ Slaughter
08-24-2010, 03:06 PM
If I did get a Thiele it would have the correct EV. I don't understand why Mesa doesn't at least offer a Thiele with one instead of only their Celestion C90.

I was concerned about it being overly directional too but I'd like something to complement to open back of the combo. Give me more low end presence. Not trying to do the chugga stuff, just don't want to sound like an open back combo all the time.

Mesa has a closed back 1x12 with a port that looks interesting to me: http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Guitar%20Cabinets/COMPACTcabs/Widebody-ClosedBack-1x12-LG.htm

Anyone have experience with such a cabinet? I want something no wider that 22" and the shorter the better.

ReginaldBisquet
08-24-2010, 03:21 PM
Looking for a 1x12 cabinet to fit under my 18.5" wide combo, Mesa DC-3. I like the size of the Thiele and everyone seems to praise it saying it has tight chest thumping bass but at the same time I'm concerned that it may be too tight sounding for a lot of the classic rock and modern country I do. Is a Thiele, or other ported guitar cabinets, better suited for a particular style of music or is it a good all around cabinet when you want something compact?

I've used a couple of different Thiele designed cabinets such as the Mesa Boogie and the Boogafunk:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_WxLfCCnkMtg/TEHkKlCX51I/AAAAAAAAECY/JAAkBnS1OjI/s640/DSCF3707.JPG

While they are indeed small cabinets, they are also mighty heavy with the correct speakers installed. An EVM-12L or an Eminence Delta Pro-12a weigh between 18 to 20 pounds. I have a 2x12 with Tonkerlites installed and it weighs less than my 1x12 Thiele.

Having said that - I have used this cabinet with an Orange Dual Terror for doom metal - both live and at rehearsal. When using it live, I have the cabinet mic'd into the PA as well as up on a small stand. No problems being heard by anyone. At rehearsal - I would agree that the sound is somewhat directional - but still clear.

I have also used this set up for a jazz/blues jam session I attend every week. No issues on tone or being heard by the other band members (piano, stand-up bass, drums, sax/trumpet, second guitar).

I think you'll be happy with the tone the Thiele delivers - especially with the appropriate speaker installed. However, don't expect the extra bass response to make your rig louder. I had the misconception that the Thiele cab would make my sound louder... which was not the case. It did, however, add a fullness to my rig that I enjoy.

You may find this helpful:
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?p=8703162#post8703162 (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showpost.php?p=8703162&postcount=9)

Good luck!

MJ Slaughter
08-24-2010, 04:02 PM
I've used a couple of different Thiele designed cabinets such as the Mesa Boogie and the Boogafunk:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_WxLfCCnkMtg/TEHkKlCX51I/AAAAAAAAECY/JAAkBnS1OjI/s640/DSCF3707.JPG

While they are indeed small cabinets, they are also mighty heavy with the correct speakers installed. An EVL-12a or an Eminence Delta Pro-12a weigh between 18 to 20 pounds. I have a 2x12 with Tonkerlites installed and it weighs less than my 1x12 Thiele.

Having said that - I have used this cabinet with an Orange Dual Terror for doom metal - both live and at rehearsal. When using it live, I have the cabinet mic'd into the PA as well as up on a small stand. No problems being heard by anyone. At rehearsal - I would agree that the sound is somewhat directional - but still clear.

I have also used this set up for a jazz/blues jam session I attend every week. No issues on tone or being heard by the other band members (piano, stand-up bass, drums, sax/trumpet, second guitar).

I think you'll be happy with the tone the Thiele delivers - especially with the appropriate speaker installed. However, don't expect the extra bass response to make your rig louder. I had the misconception that the Thiele cab would make my sound louder... which was not the case. It did, however, add a fullness to my rig that I enjoy.

You may find this helpful:
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?p=8703162#post8703162 (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showpost.php?p=8703162&postcount=9)

Good luck!

My music is far removed from doom metal and I don't need my amp any louder so the fullness over loud is what I'm looking for so that's encouraging. From the link you gave us I read talk about the Eminence Delta Pro 12-A. Is that really a close match to the EVM12L?

If I go Thiele design I would most likely go with the Boogafunk since I can get the EV with it as opposed to buying a new Mesa Thiele. Do you notice any sonic difference between the Mesa and Boogafunk?

Leftyman
08-24-2010, 05:27 PM
This might seem kind of vague but Thiele cabinets, to my knowledge, usually have an EVM12L in them and are usually suited more towards "D" style amps or amps with 6L6's. Now, with that being said, that in no way shape or form means it wouldn't sound good with other types of amps. Remember the rule, there are none.

ReginaldBisquet
08-24-2010, 09:56 PM
My music is far removed from doom metal and I don't need my amp any louder so the fullness over loud is what I'm looking for so that's encouraging. From the link you gave us I read talk about the Eminence Delta Pro 12-A. Is that really a close match to the EVM12L?

If I go Thiele design I would most likely go with the Boogafunk since I can get the EV with it as opposed to buying a new Mesa Thiele. Do you notice any sonic difference between the Mesa and Boogafunk?

When I tested the cabinets, I only noticed a difference between the two because the Boogafunk (with the Delta Pro) was newer and had a little more definition in the tone. A good friend of mine has two 1x12 cabinets with EVM-12Ls in them from the mid-1980s. When he tested my Boogafunk, he said the lower end was more pronounced but that it sounded great. He also commented that the speaker sounded new (stiff). I told him afterward that it was a Delta Pro and not an EVM... he was pleasantly surprised.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_WxLfCCnkMtg/TEHkKBEGiAI/AAAAAAAAECU/M6B_WsrSqPo/s640/DSCF3704.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_WxLfCCnkMtg/TEHkKzkOc2I/AAAAAAAAECc/K5f3lGktreE/s640/DSCF3709.JPG

I asked Mr. Boogafunk on his recommendation and he steered me towards the Delta Pro because (in his opinion) it sounded identical while being much less expensive.

Hope this helps.

zenfreud
08-24-2010, 10:38 PM
Here's a link to free plans for the cab in question (and others, too), it's official name from EV was the TL806:

http://archives.telex.com/archives/EV/Builders%20Plans/

No way I'd wanna schlep an EVM12-loaded cab around, though...

Norjef
08-24-2010, 11:13 PM
As ported cabs seem to increase fat-tones - I can turn the bass down on my amps. Thusly they seem to get LOTS more volume if/when needed

Dave_C
08-25-2010, 12:21 AM
I bought a Glaswerks 1x12 Thiele-port cab with EVM-12L for the Glaswerks SOD II D-style head I also had on order. I got the speaker first and spent 80 hours breaking it in with an 80W Hi-Fi amp. The cab came second, several weeks before I got the amp, so I loaded up the fully broken-in speaker and started using it with my other amps (Fuchs ODS-HRM, Quinn SDO-HRM, Dr. Z Maz 18 Jr NR, Allen Accomplice, Suhr Badger). To my surprise, this cab/speaker combo made all my amps sound better! It seemed to be the perfect cab/speaker combo for *everything*.

So, I think if it's done well, this cab style (with the right speaker) is a universally great match for just about anything you can throw at it.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/maz_master/037.jpg

Dave_C
08-25-2010, 12:24 AM
I had a Mesa Thiele (EV12L) for a short time to use under my Mesa MkIV combo. I found it to be very directional - great difference in volume depending upon whether your ears were directly in front of it or to the side. And if it's on the ground under your combo, only your ankles will hear it. Just something to keep in mind.

It did add some low end, but it wasn't quite what I was looking for. For me, a 2x12 would have been more suitable. And I believe Thiele refers to the design, which includes a ported front.

My GW112TH has better spread than my Port City 2x12. Did not have the same experience at all.

Dave_C
08-25-2010, 12:29 AM
Here are a couple clips from my last gig with the rig posted above (with the Glaswerks Thiele-port cab with EVM-12L Classic). These were recorded with an H2 about 15 feet out in the first row of tables, dead center.

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=9473923

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=9473922

papersoul
08-12-2011, 09:52 AM
I find semi-open back to be better than ported! Sounds bigger and works better in small rooms.

MJ Slaughter
08-12-2011, 03:47 PM
Almost a full year since I started this thread. I wound up getting the Thiele/EVM12L and it works great with my Mesa and modeling gear. Last rehearsal I brought only the Thiele and 4 space rack so it looked very tiny. Our drummer commented that he had no idea it could get so loud. It was pointed toward him and wasn't turned up much at all either so I'm sure the direct beam of sound hit him hard. My only problem is when I'm on a small stage with hardly any depth I have trouble hearing without putting it on an amp stand which I don't really like. The Thiele isn't going anywhere but I'm going to get a semi open back 1x12 cabinet and put another EVM12L in it for those gigs where I want to hear some sound off that back wall so I don't turn up too loud. It should help the drummer hear me better too. When I can set the Thiele behind me more on a larger stage it sounds great.

somedude
08-12-2011, 04:26 PM
I picked up a pair of the Mesa Widebody 1x12 cabs and set the open back on top of the front ported. It's a really big improvement in sound dispersion.

papersoul
08-12-2011, 08:02 PM
I picked up a pair of the Mesa Widebody 1x12 cabs and set the open back on top of the front ported. It's a really big improvement in sound dispersion.

Good deal.....that is similar to the Mesa half back which is open on top and ported on bottom. How do you mic it though?

somedude
08-12-2011, 08:22 PM
Good deal.....that is similar to the Mesa half back which is open on top and ported on bottom. How do you mic it though?

I've only ever used it at rehearsal so I've never actually mic'd the ported cab.

dspellman
08-12-2011, 08:41 PM
Anyway.... MJ, a ported cabinet will work for any music. It's the speaker that's in it that might make it more suitable to a particular style. Thing is, for the port to work properly it needs a speaker with the same specs as what is was designed for.

The original EV design was meant for the EVM12-L. Using other speakers in it will either make no difference (ie, the ports will do next to nothing), sorta work (the ports might increase the bass, but it might be overdamped or boomy), or worst case - it will unload the speaker below it's resonance and allow so much excursion the speaker hurts itself when high power is applied. (note the EVM12 and most Celestions are an octave apart in their resonace - the EV is below a guitar's low E and the Celestions tend to have a resonance higher than low E - they're very different speakers in design and construction)

This is bang on -- the ports on a properly designed cabinet are based on the specs of a particular speaker and take into consideration the interior volume of the cabinet as well. There are calculators online that will give you the proper port dimensions (my 2x12s called for a pair of round ports - pipes, actually - with a diameter a bit smaller than 4" and a "pipe" depth of around 4" when tuned for 52 Hz with a pair of Delta ProAs).

Note that simply having more bass response *available* will not necessarily make the finished speaker more bassy. It will simply be able to reproduce low end information in the program material that other speakers will roll off. Generally ports won't affect the directionality of the speaker significantly; that will be determined by other factors, such as the size of the speakers, how many speakers are in the box and how the box is oriented.

cap'n'crunch
08-13-2011, 07:25 AM
Now, with that being said, that in no way shape or form means it wouldn't sound good with other types of amps. Remember the rule, there are none.

Exactly. I've been using one of my pine cabs built to TS806 specs with an Eminence Legend 120 watt speaker (can't remember the model off hand) with Marshall 50 watter for a long time.

Remember when guitar amplification was born it was thought that the overdriven tube sound was unpleasant/undesired. lol

EastCoastRocker
08-13-2011, 11:40 AM
This might seem kind of vague but Thiele cabinets, to my knowledge, usually have an EVM12L in them and are usually suited more towards "D" style amps or amps with 6L6's. Now, with that being said, that in no way shape or form means it wouldn't sound good with other types of amps. Remember the rule, there are none.

The second part of you statement is the correct one. While "D" style amp users tend to love the EV12L, many metal guys love them as well.
One such case is Zakk Wylde of BLS/Ozzy fame. But the 12L's are loaded in a marshall 4x12, not a Thiele.

The thing about the 12L is that it does not distort at high SPL's.
Sometimes a speaker distorting at high SPL's is just what you DO want, as in the case of an overdriven Celestion Blue that's just under
the threshold of self destruction. It's got it's own vibe, and it's a great one!

The 12L will not do that, and it won't add as much coloration as a blue, greenback, etc. but it WILL sound great. You'll get punch that doesn't wash out or flab out at any volume,
and for lots of rock/metal players, that's just the ticket. YMMV.