Lentz-changing pu's??

[littlepicker]

I've got a lentz ssl, ash body & rw board and I'm think about putting some Fralins in it. Is changing pu's in a Lentz a bad Idea?

[Zero G]

In what sense would it be a bad idea? Your question is a bit vague... That said, what do you not like about the Lentz pickups?

[bizzwriter]

I've got a lentz ssl, ash body & rw board and I'm think about putting some Fralins in it. Is changing pu's in a Lentz a bad Idea?

Well -- I know that Scott prides himself on matching the pickups to each guitar he builds, taking the tonal characteristics of each individual piece of wood into account. The ones that are in there are in there for a reason.

That said, it wouldn't hurt to try the Fralins and see if you like them better. You can always put the Lentz pickups back in, or try something else.

[littlepicker]

Do many peps change out their lentz pu's?The ssl pu's sound pretty good; but I've had good luck upgrading strats with Fralins and RS upgrade kits.

[Zero G]

Do many peps change out their lentz pu's?The ssl pu's sound pretty good; but I've had good luck upgrading strats with Fralins and RS upgrade kits.

If you like the pups, why would you want to change them out? :huh If it ain't broke, don't fix it. An RS kit in a $4000+ boutique guitar makes no sense IMO...

[Heffjbaby]

If you like the pups, why would you want to change them out? :huh If it ain't broke, don't fix it. An RS kit in a $4000+ boutique guitar makes no sense IMO...

Many builders only offer their own pups which may or may not be to the players tonal preference. This is a real thorn in my side, as I may love the neck, playability and the fact that I know the wood selection is done with great care and the guitar rings like a bell......but I just don't like YOUR pickups! Having to spend the extra money on new pickups or even a different trem on 'S' style guitars that are typically setting me back 3K really rubs me the wrong way.

Without naming builders I wanted the Gotoh 510 vintage bridge with the steel block and not the zinc block, and was told "that's not the sound I'm going for". Hum, I thought it was my custom order and I think the zinc block kills the tone and ring on a 'S' type guitar and that's on top of the fact that I also don't like the builders pups. So I agree that it "makes no sense", but many builders leave the player no choice. That's too bad because I end up spending an additional $500 to get the guitar where I really want it.

Regarding the OP's issue specifically, you may want to experiment with different values on the pots and caps as this may take the tone more in the direction you want without spending a whole lot on new pickups. Just a thought. Scott Lentz is one of the best there is so a call to him may be helpful as well. He can often recommend different pup height settings that will significantly affect the overall tone of the guitar. Good luck.

[Bluestar]

Do many peps change out their lentz pu's?The ssl pu's sound pretty good; but I've had good luck upgrading strats with Fralins and RS upgrade kits.

I'm the original owner of a DL-90 - IMO my guitar sounds perfect as is, so I will not be changing out the PUs - I'm old schoolish - if it anit broke, don't fix it. Can't imagine that one could "upgrade" from a Lentz PU but YMMV, of course.

[Dillon]

Heffjbaby has a good thought. Consider giving Scott a call.

I have one of the two original HSL prototypes. When I took it by the shop for a "once over," Scott asked if he could do a little electronics upgrade. I said "Yes," of course. Perhaps he has improved on the SSL since yours was built.

[gitarzilla]

I swapped out the neck p/u on my Lentz Tele more out of necessity. It would squeal w/o a lot of provocation. Checked with Scott and he advised trying to adjust the height, which didn't help. Could never get it to stop. I had a Fralin neck p/u in the drawer, so i popped that in and it's been squeal free. Not a lot of difference in the tone.

[dukeh62]

I had a Lentz HSL that was a truly amazing guitar, but I needed to sell it. If I was able to keep it, I would have swapped out the pickups. Great instrument, but the pickups were too hot for my tastes.

[littlepicker]

It sounds like changing pu's would work, if I decide to do it.
I like the idea of chnaging the pots and caps (RS upgrade kit) first.
Like I said, the pu's sound pretty good. I just think the tone could be
a little better. Comparing them to my other gits. I know tone is a subjective
thang. I'll probably give Scott a call, before I drop alot of money on new pups.

[shark_bite]

:facepalm

[willhutch]

I've tried modifying Scott Lentz guitars.....different wiring, different pups, different bridge, treble bleed cap, etc.......In EVERY case, I returned it to stock. There's nothing I can do to improve on Scott's intention for each of his guitars.

[suckamc]

RS Kit on a Lentz? NO WAY. No chance I would ever do that.

Definitely do the pickups if you want to alter the tone a bit. But the RS Kit for that guitar is crazy. There isn't the slightest chance that it would be an upgrade from what Scott put in there.

Do the pickups.

[RRClassic]

I agree with my boy Suckamc!! No RS BS....I put them on my LP....hate it...gotsta find me some stock CTS again.

However, I have known Scotty for years and to me there is no finer git fiddle....however, Scott likes what he likes and tends to not let you have the choice. He winds PU's for more of a rock n roll vibe (Darker)...for instance, if you want that country tele twang you will not get it from a Lentz as made by Scott, you will have to adjust a few wires and throw in a Fralin Blues Special or Lollar 52's or whatever in that vein that you dig.

I have an original Lentz tele before the Fender intrusion and I played it as a stock Lentz for 12 years. Just recently I rewired it with what is called the 50's Gibson style and threw in the Lollar 52's and it is now wank and spank the plank with your crank!!!

I want to try the Fralin Blues Special (The Paisley thing) but man....I think I am now a tele guy instead of a strat guy....did I just say that out loud? embarrassing because I suck at country!!

Anyway, Lentz guitars are beyond magical but you may need to adjust some electronics depending on the sound you want!!...who knows for you it may be the stock Lentz setup.

[littlepicker]

Hmmm, would a callaham bridge and tremelo block, be an improvment
over the stock ones. Now you got me think'in.. :))

[RRClassic]

No....the Gotoh stuff is fine.

[shark_bite]

SERIOUSLY IT'S A $3000+ GUITAR WHY ON EARTH ARE YOU TRYING TO SWAP ALL THE PARTS!!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!one

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Zero G]

SERIOUSLY IT'S A $3000+ GUITAR WHY ON EARTH ARE YOU TRYING TO SWAP ALL THE PARTS!!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!one

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

This ^^^. One of the main benefits of buying a super expensive boutique guitar is that you don't have to have to upgrade it. Starting to wonder if the OP is actually serious or if he's just messing with us. The level of absurdity is through the roof!

[suckamc]

Hmmm, would a callaham bridge and tremelo block, be an improvment
over the stock ones. Now you got me think'in.. :))

I've got a Lentz with the Gotoh and one with the Callaham. They're both great. It's impossible for me to tell what tonal effect either is having w/o swapping the trems on each and recording the before and after clips, BUT one thing's for sure: the Gotoh sounds awesome.

Just change the pickups. Don't sell the originals, though. The pickups are easy to change, and yeah, Scott likes what he likes. If it's not what you like, swap em out. But don't think for an instance that changing the OTHER parts (the hardware) will be a tonal upgrade. The Lentz strat is the most powerful force in the universe... there's not a piece of hardware on there that is inferior to something else out there.

[chinstrap]

Call Scott first- I had a request to get a bridge pup for my SSL that was a little beefier than stock, and Scott was really fantastic- he wound me a hotter pup for the bridge, sent it to me and told me to try it first- I loved it and sent him the $$ afterwards, the single best customer experience I have ever had- I will order more guitars from Scott, and I already own two. Hardware and electronics I personally wouldn't touch.

[RSRelic]

Wow RS stuff is not good enough to be in a $5000 guitar? Man and I thought these guys who ship their guitars with out stuff OEM made some nice guitars:dunno

Thorn Guitars
Crook Custom Guitars
Jaros Guitar Company
Warrior Instruments
Ian Anderson Guitars
Lipe Guitars
Larrivee Guitars
Bastin Guitar Company
David Thomas McNaught

[55custom]

The idea behind not messing with the Lentz electronics is that the parts used, and the wiring, is specifically geared to create an intended tonal effect. The formula of how these parts and the hand wound pickups, and the wood, interact is designed for peak performance. So, changing out parts takes a Lentz guitar in an altogether different direction with unpredictable results.

At the time I got my SSL I had spare vintage pickups, pots and caps that I could have put in it. But it would have been pointless, because the SSL easily stood up to my vintage Strat at the time, and the ones I had before.

Now if someone wants to release the Yngwie foogin fury, they are better off just getting a YJM pedal or YJM guitar, rather than doing guess work with a custom instrument.
Not surprisingly, a lot people's foundation for Strat tone comes from their experience with modern Fender Strats that need tinkering, and they get accustomed to a certain limited range of frequencies and clarity.

[gitarzilla]

Wow RS stuff is not good enough to be in a $5000 guitar? Man and I thought these guys who ship their guitars with out stuff OEM made some nice guitars:dunno

Thorn Guitars
Crook Custom Guitars
Jaros Guitar Company
Warrior Instruments
Ian Anderson Guitars
Lipe Guitars
Larrivee Guitars
Bastin Guitar Company
David Thomas McNaught

I don't think that's the implication. You guys make boss stuff for sure and would be a worthwhile upgrade in many other guitars, but Scott's guitars are Scott's guitars. He's researched them and designed them to have his mojo, including the pickups and circuitry. That's part of why one pays big $$ to a custom builder. Like I said, I never would've swapped out the Lentz Tele neck p/u if it didn't squeal. I loved it's tone, just couldn't manage its microphonics at stage volume.

Now take a historic LP -- an expensive gutiar and a prime candidate for an RS upgrade. Gibson puts its best foot forward on the parts of the guitar you can see (and not even then in many cases), but they use utter junk for their circuit.

[RSRelic]

I don't think that's the implication. You guys make boss stuff for sure and would be a worthwhile upgrade in many other guitars, but Scott's guitars are Scott's guitars. He's researched them and designed them to have his mojo, including the pickups and circuitry. That's part of why one pays big $$ to a custom builder. Like I said, I never would've swapped out the Lentz Tele neck p/u if it didn't squeal. I loved it's tone, just couldn't manage its microphonics at stage volume.

Now take a historic LP -- an expensive gutiar and a prime candidate for an RS upgrade. Gibson puts its best foot forward on the parts of the guitar you can see (and not even then in many cases), but they use utter junk for their circuit.
I'm not saying a thing in the world about Scott or his guitars, but we spend as much or more time than anyone on the wood, electronics and pickups that go into our guitars, but it still does not mean the tone we want to hear is for every one or that we get out of joint if someone changes a part on our guitars. The point of changing the pickups or electronics in any guitars is to get it where you like it not to kick a builders dog.

[Scott Lentz]

I don't get mad if a guy changes parts/pickups on his Lentz Guitar because it is HIS guitar after I sell it ... I understand that there are different likes, dislikes, and opinions to work with and that is intrinsically what makes my job so challenging and enjoyable for me! (Hey did someone just kick me?:)
Now how about some pictures of those equally outstanding Lentz/RS control circuits!?

[littlepicker]

My original intent when I started this post was to get some info.
I'm not a pro guitarhead, with tons of experience, like some of you guys are.
I know Scott's guitars are at the top of the food chain, and his prices are the best
in my opinion. I just wanted to explore the possibilitys of changing components,
and what the effects might be. The reason I was asking these questions is because
I thought, that the way Scott has designed these guitars could very well be the best I could hope to get out of them. I know when I have put RS upgrade kits in lp's and strats it has made them sound thicker and more powerful, and that is something I like. If I do make some changes; I'll let you'll know how it turns out.

[esoteric pete]

im with the guys that say just play it and enjoy it as it is. when i first got my HSL, it took me a day or so to adjust myself to playing it.

now i "get it" with my HSL and its a scary guitar. infact, its 2:05am here, just got in from the gig, played it tonight - 4 hours. just hung it up a few mins ago. i love this thing and it sounded great tonight.

[Robal]

I say, as a very happy owner to two stock Lentz guitars, change the pickups or anything else that is easily reversible and see what you like. You may or may not find something you like more. It's your guitar. Scott Lentz himself has responded that he does not consider it out of line for the owner to make such changes. My only suggestion is that you talk to Scott first about what you want to achieve, because I bet his guidance will likely be very helpful to you.

[js54]

I have a Lentz S type and have often wondered about what it would sound like with different Pups. I never changed them until I went to Scott's shop and he had an SSL with a really hot, tele/P-90 ish kinda Pup in the bridge. It sounded awesome and I had Scott put one of those Pups in my S. It sounded great in my guitar and delivered what I had expected - A fatter, P-90 ish sound.

I kept it in there for a few months and then decided to go back to the original Bridge Pup and that still sounded great!

I put that other Pup in a different guitar and it sounds really nice, not as nice as it did in my Lentz guitar, because that other Strat is not a Lentz.

The discovery for me was this - the inherent qualities of the guitar itself were always present regardless of the pup type. And those qualities are far nicer than any other strat I own. I realized that I can make Scott's guitar respond and sound very different depending on how I play it and work the tone knobs, etc. Obviously amps and pedals play a role. But overall, his guitars offer a palette of tones I can't find in other instruments.

To answer your question - I dont think its a bad idea to experiment with different pups. I did (a little) and realized that the original setup rocks - Scott knows what he's doing!! :bow

It was a good learning experience. Plus, the world will not stop spinning on its axis if you change pickups in a guitar - just dont make a mess with the solder iron ;)

[Rkin1]

As a suggestion: buy whatever pickups you are interested in as a pre-loaded pickguard. That way you can drop the original pickups, pots, and switch out of the SSL as a unit. You will only have to connect 3 wires to hook it up, and you can use the non-SSL pickguard as holder for your Lentz pickups. If you decide to go back to stock its very clean and simple and the resale on an assembly is generally pretty decent. YMMV, IMHO, etc :D

[Rickenbacker53]

Many builders only offer their own pups which may or may not be to the players tonal preference. This is a real thorn in my side, as I may love the neck, playability and the fact that I know the wood selection is done with great care and the guitar rings like a bell......but I just don't like YOUR pickups! Having to spend the extra money on new pickups or even a different trem on 'S' style guitars that are typically setting me back 3K really rubs me the wrong way.

Without naming builders I wanted the Gotoh 510 vintage bridge with the steel block and not the zinc block, and was told "that's not the sound I'm going for". Hum, I thought it was my custom order and I think the zinc block kills the tone and ring on a 'S' type guitar and that's on top of the fact that I also don't like the builders pups. So I agree that it "makes no sense", but many builders leave the player no choice. That's too bad because I end up spending an additional $500 to get the guitar where I really want it.

Regarding the OP's issue specifically, you may want to experiment with different values on the pots and caps as this may take the tone more in the direction you want without spending a whole lot on new pickups. Just a thought. Scott Lentz is one of the best there is so a call to him may be helpful as well. He can often recommend different pup height settings that will significantly affect the overall tone of the guitar. Good luck. Scott told me. " If your looking for a certain sound or dynamic. Send me a sample or just let me know. I can wind you what your looking for. I'm sure most players haven't a clue. If you do though that's an option. Otherwise yeah if you say nothing a builder most likely goes with the old stand by. Why not..

[bigtbluesman]

Scott is one of THE most stand=up guys in the business!!!!! Call him and talk, he will not shoot you, He has ears like dumbo the elephant, so explain exactly how you want the axe to sound.

The guitars that he made for me were 200% on the money, but I was extemely "tone specific" on what I expected. He knocked it out of the park, out of the county,
and into the next state.

Big T

[emjee]

Scott has a set way of doing things, but he will work with you to a certain extent. He built me a "T" style and it definitely (as many here have said) has it's own sound. I told Scott I didn't want a real trebly twangy sound, but more of a mid-range with not a lot of bite. He NAILED it. And the tone knob has several very active, useable positions, not just "all out".

[Heffjbaby]

Scott told me. " If your looking for a certain sound or dynamic. Send me a sample or just let me know. I can wind you what your looking for. I'm sure most players haven't a clue. If you do though that's an option. Otherwise yeah if you say nothing a builder most likely goes with the old stand by. Why not..

Just wanted to clarify that Scott Lentz is NOT the builder I was referring to in my earlier post regarding pickup and bridge preferences. Scott’s guitars are the finest I’ve ever owned and his ability to complement wood selection with electronics is beyond the generic approach other builders follow. He has always been able to not only help me articulate what sound I’m looking for, but in delivering it!

As a matter of fact several months ago Scott built me a swamp ash ‘T’ style with a rosewood board with an ‘S’ neck pickup disguised as a ‘T’ pickup that is a killer guitar and gave me what I just wanted to hear in that pickup position. I’ll post some pictures when I get a chance.

[js54]

As an experiment yesterday, I took off my Lentz S guard with all the electronics and put on a different guard with some incredible pups and standard electronics and expected to be floored, but I was not. The other pups on the lentz for some reason did not produce the volume and presence that the stock lentz electronics did. The other pups sounded good, but nothing like what they sounded like in my other guitars. This is not a knock on the other pups - they transformed a couple other strats into gorgeous vintage sounding strats.

There is obviously something special going on with the total Lentz package.
I will leave well enough alone on that guitar.

[Pa'ani]

I love the way my pickups sound in my Lentz Croyden, it's so balance and what a great tone and amazing myriads of sound from one instrument. The controls are very sensitive and user friendly...

[The Boob]

If you change those pickups give 'em to me!!! Better yet, DO NOT CHANGE THOSE PICKUPS!!!!!