Has TGP Turned a Corner?

[daddyo]

I miss the old TGP. If you're new, I'm not trying to start a fight. But when I first joined, there was so much new stuff every day. Guys like Matte would promo some new cool guitar several times a month. Same with amps. Discussions could get heated but they always seemed informative. I learned about wet rigs and attenuators. I learned about lots of cool pedals. I learned about a cool new player every month. Tag was alway putting his money where his mouth was. Now Tag is banned until Atlantis rises again and what we mostly have is put down threads aimed at everyone from Zep to Hendrix. That and silly stuff like booger flinging and bikini threads.

Pile on:hide2

[Papajuice]

+++++++++ :agree

[TwoTubMan]

Making a Fender sound like a Marshall, and making a Marshall sound like a Fender has been discussed. There's nothing left to talk about.

[deluxeman]

I agree, it was fun then. Kinda sucks now. I try not to respond anymore to anything. Just look for a deal here and there. Sad state.

[RhytmEarl]

Making a Fender sound like a Marshall, and making a Marshall sound like a Fender has been discussed. There's nothing left to talk about.


Pretty much this^. After 10 years on forums I've asked and answered pretty much every question I can and I'm now at the point where I'm pretty much happy with my gear and tone.

[soulohio]

daddyo...you must have seen the thread Jon or one of the others posted explaining some of the reasons that TGP has changed... the stuff you like is still going on at TGP, but everything in music has progressed. You have also seen an influx of HC folks... (i was one) that need to be taught not to crap on the carpet. After that happens, then it will be close as heaven can be...

[bigdaddy]

Nah. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=773393)

[5E3]

Daddyo ... get one of these and all is well ;)

http://www.empiremovies.com/_word_press/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/hot-tub-time-machine-471x710.jpg

[VintageKnob]

my dog dies and I need mojo cause I'm involved in online dating and I need some advice about my marriage. Oh, and I'm being sued by PeenutGuy because my neighbors dog was barking too loud in the morning while I was mowing my lawn when I was thinking about buying a gun. Then my wifes brother-in-law moved and and I acted like a jerk, was I bad for doing this? Man I just don't know, I'm so confused, can you all save my life?

All of this after I sold all of my gear in a bad sale int he emporiums, but if course I can't talk about that.


- D

[Dillow4092]

One thing to remember. Times are tough for a lot of people. Simple humor, half naked women might just be the "break" they need. Like Scott said, this place needs a good laugh!

Plus most of us have less time these days for just about anything. I do see a good bit of demos/reviews in the other sections. The pub is like, well a pub. People just jaw jacking about anything. I'll bet if we were in a room with beer flowing, it would be the same.

I really like this place!!!:D:D:D:D:D

[phoenix 7]

To each his own. I, for one, think the booger-flinging thread is the best thing I've ever seen on TGP.

[JDW3]

Not the high it used to be, but I think people are just to stressed and broke to be inspired to do much involved with entertainment.

[Faraldi]

Can someone please post a link to the booger flinging thread? I'm still kinda new here.

:)

[Dillow4092]

To each his own. I, for one, think the booger-flinging thread is the best thing I've ever seen on TGP.


I knew you liked my response!

[TwoTubMan]

...and for some I think it's a competition to see who has the most posts.

I agree. It's become Twitter, where every random thought that staggers into your brain merits a new thread.

[Phalanx200bc]

We could talk about John Mayer........?

[hk45acp]

we could talk about john mayer........?

ban him now!!!;)

[bjjp2]

For as long as I've been on TGP I've been reading these "ain't what it used to be" threads. Sure certain valuable posters seem to come and go (whatever happened to Jack Zucker by the way?), but I don't think the signal to noise ratio has changed that much.

Edit: OK, the boogers thread might be a new low.

[esoteric pete]

my dog dies and I need mojo cause I'm involved in online dating and I need some advice about my marriage. Oh, and I'm being sued by PeenutGuy because my neighbors dog was barking too loud in the morning while I was mowing my lawn when I was thinking about buying a gun. Then my wifes brother-in-law moved and and I acted like a jerk, was I bad for doing this? Man I just don't know, I'm so confused, can you all save my life?

All of this after I sold all of my gear in a bad sale int he emporiums, but if course I can't talk about that.


- D

i believe this is sarcasm...i have notified the mods.... 8 )

[FlyingDutchman]

The site is evolving. The main reason for this is mainly due to the growth of this place. The more members, the more diversity, the more questions.

[steved0x]

Nah. (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=773393)

Hey that's me :)

[Midnight Lady]

I'd say it had to do with the median age going down because of new members....... but that would label me as old. Well ok, that's true.

I've only been here three years but I've seen the change even in that time.

There seems to be less respect, less humor and more bizarre opinions...

But again, maybe that's my age. http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg186/marchbirthdays/gifs/oldpeople.gif

[MudPies]

I agree. It's become Twitter, where every random thought that staggers into your brain merits a new thread.

Heck, I'd rather they removed the post counts so people wouldn't assume things about a number.

[HEY!YOU!]

Heck, I'd rather they removed the post counts so people wouldn't assume things about a number.

I've suggested that before on this and other forums.
Didn't go over well.

I am my post count.

[captain_bob]

It's still the best gig in town though.

[LHanson]

Meh. Every month or so there is a "Is TGP going down the tubes" thread.

There's just more people here. We've moved from a big town to a small city. Other than that, I don't see that big of a change, and I'm an old hand.

[amigo30]

The real content isn't in the pub. But as others have said, after you've read the site for so many years some of the gear topics become less interesting. It's kind of like riding the same roller-coaster for the 300th time.

So it appears that things have gone downhill, when really, it's us that has changed. At least to a degree.

[splatt]

matte posts once in a very blue while.
tag is gone, in some ways by his own design, i suppose.
i hardly post, but for occasionally, intermittently.
while i still often browse through TGP, i'm not really involved much, here, anymore;
it's too difficult for me to engage in any fluid way that feels mutually valuable.
still, i support the place, the mods & owners & many of the people, here.

in fact:
a whole lotta TGP & TGP'ers stepped-way-up,
& strongly supported my friend-in-need, mick karn.....
and are continuing to do so,
which is heartwarming, to say the least.

has the place changed?
absolutely, imo.
is it all bad?
while clearly not my corner-in-which-to-hang, anymore, i'd hafta say "no".

dt / spltrcl

[The Last Rebel]

The real content isn't in the pub. But as others have said, after you've read the site for so many years some of the gear topics become less interesting. It's kind of like riding the same roller-coaster for the 300th time.

So it appears that things have gone downhill, when really, it's us that has changed. At least to a degree.
Yup, there's only so many times you can read two grown men insulting each other over an amp before it becomes sad and disturbing.

I'm all for taking the post count away, BTW. The only people who want to keep it are the ones who think it means something.

[Dickie Fredericks]

Tag is banned? But, but, Tag knows tone!

No really, is Tag banned? WTF? I think the rules might be a little strict round here.

[soulohio]

David, I wish we had a special area for guys like you, Pete, Tag, Matt, whoever... but that may defeat the purpose...still, it is good to be a rawk gawd...

Mods? Can we have a place for these pros or is that just not in the spirit of TGP? En serio...it seems cool but maybe not...

matte posts once in a very blue while.
tag is gone, in some ways by his own design, i suppose.
i hardly post, but for occasionally, intermittently.
while i still often browse through TGP, i'm not really involved much, here, anymore;
it's too difficult for me to engage in any fluid way that feels mutually valuable.
still, i support the place, the mods & owners & many of the people, here.

....
dt / spltrcl

[daddyo]

Maybe my wow threshold has increased. I guess what made me scratch my head was a Jimi Hendrix and a Jimmy Vaughan putdown thread going at the same time. Maybe I'm burnt out on gear dreaming/drooling/buying and need to play more.

[The Golden Boy]

I miss the good ol' TGP days, when we used to carve posts into granite with copper chisels.

*sigh*

[Guitar Slinger6]

I have not been here as long as some of you guys, but in my short 2 years and 8 months I have seen some changes. And I am sure it had changed a lot before I had joined the party.

[Polynitro]

TAG is over at HC but his threads die really fast over there. Hes more of a joke and not taken seriously, hes not worshipped like he is here.

[Teh RedWizard]

But how do I make a Telecaster into an Orange sound like a 335 into teh D@nbLl? :hide2

[GuitarsFromMars]

(sigh...) crickets chirp, cows moo...

[Strat]

Migration from HC unfortunately.

I miss the old TGP. If you're new, I'm not trying to start a fight. But when I first joined, there was so much new stuff every day. Guys like Matte would promo some new cool guitar several times a month. Same with amps. Discussions could get heated but they always seemed informative. I learned about wet rigs and attenuators. I learned about lots of cool pedals. I learned about a cool new player every month. Tag was alway putting his money where his mouth was. Now Tag is banned until Atlantis rises again and what we mostly have is put down threads aimed at everyone from Zep to Hendrix. That and silly stuff like booger flinging and bikini threads.

Pile on:hide2

[Hunterdog]

my dog dies and I need mojo cause I'm involved in online dating and I need some advice about my marriage. Oh, and I'm being sued by PeenutGuy because my neighbors dog was barking too loud in the morning while I was mowing my lawn when I was thinking about buying a gun. Then my wifes brother-in-law moved and and I acted like a jerk, was I bad for doing this? Man I just don't know, I'm so confused, can you all save my life?

All of this after I sold all of my gear in a bad sale int he emporiums, but if course I can't talk about that.


- D


I'm pretty new as well, but this ^ is one of the first things I noticed.

What is this, the Oprah show ?

[TwoTubMan]

I miss the good ol' TGP days, when we used to carve posts into granite with copper chisels.

It was hell on the mods, though.

[Boris Bubbanov]

Times are hard. People are not only not looking at guitars and amps to buy - they don't wanna look at them at all and be reminded what they cannot afford. I have several guys I know of I am trying to decide if I loan them a guitar, will they take it to the pawnshop?

Just my narrow perspective - I missed the real heyday. I still learn things when I choose to - I am not wanting to cultivate any GAS right now.

[Hunterdog]

It was hell on the mods, though.



The signatures were much shorter, though.

[90wreck]

I miss the old TGP. If you're new, I'm not trying to start a fight. But when I first joined, there was so much new stuff every day. Guys like Matte would promo some new cool guitar several times a month. Same with amps. Discussions could get heated but they always seemed informative. I learned about wet rigs and attenuators. I learned about lots of cool pedals. I learned about a cool new player every month. Tag was alway putting his money where his mouth was. Now Tag is banned until Atlantis rises again and what we mostly have is put down threads aimed at everyone from Zep to Hendrix. That and silly stuff like booger flinging and bikini threads.

Pile on:hide2
I was here for all that and yes, it has turned a corner.
It use to be kinda an elite private club....Really.
However, things will change when the mass comes charging in.
The old schoolers have hashed and rehashed every subject at hand in every forum over and over.
This is the reason why I hang in the pub 90% of the time the last few years.
I like shooting the shit with fellow muscians, but am done with thee BF vs....Dumble vs......Trainwrecks are...Keeley is ....Dipwad Dirtbag Drive is the shitz.....Double Boner Deluxe Super Six Wad is heaven...only with the limited hand painted faceplate.
It gets old.
BTW.....My new....is...:D
I miss it, but still am having some fun here.

[Jason Carter]

I've been around since the PRS Forum days. As much as I enjoyed the old days, TGP is still a wealth of knowledge. I just go with the flow these days and pic and choose the topics to view. I really do miss Tag......viva la 158

[Greggy]

Yeah, I pine for the days when I would kick Mike Anderson around the block with unflappable aplomb and irrefutable arguments.

[jtm622]

Sure, I miss the old days... that is, the days before I spent/wasted way too much time visiting TGP and talking about goofy sh#t like this with you guys...

Heh-heh-heh...

:)

[Zilmo]

I miss the days when everyone was talking about who Lance Armstrong was banging.

[RichSZ]

http://ialwayshaveaplan.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/fonzie-jump-the-shark.jpg

http://cdn2.team-twilight.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/FonzieJumpingShark.jpg

[Jon C]

signal to noise ratio has tanked markedly in the past 2 yrs. or so ... when folks like Matte, John Phillips, fullerplast & others are drowned out by It's Time, MudPies, & even Tweedie, res ipsa loquitur (the thing speaks for itself)... what passes for the wealth of knowledge is buried in a mountain of dreck.

TGP today is to TGP of a couple/few yrs. ago as NASCAR of today is to NASCAR of the 60s/70s (the WWF on wheels) ...

the shark was jumped long ago.

[Teh RedWizard]

signal to noise ratio has tanked markedly in the past 2 yrs. or so ... when folks like Matte, John Phillips, fullerplast & others are drowned out by It's Time, MudPies, & even Tweedie, res ipsa loquitur (the thing speaks for itself)... what passes for the wealth of knowledge is buried in a mountain of dreck.

TGP today is to TGP of a couple/few yrs. ago as NASCAR of today is to NASCAR of the 60s/70s (the WWF on wheels) ...

the shark was jumped long ago.OUCH!!! :eek::cry::hide

[soulohio]

you mean the Pub used to be some sorta temple of chaste knowledge and unbridled principle where only knights spoke of women with honor and music was played by temple edumacated masons? Excuse me, I was looking at a sign that said Liquor in teh Front, Poker in the Rear and I ended up here....can somebody lend me cab fare for HC?

[Teh RedWizard]

you mean the Pub used to be some sorta temple of chaste knowledge and unbridled principle where only knights spoke of women with honor and music was played by temple edumacated masons? Excuse me, I was looking at a sign that said Liquor in teh Front, Poker in the Rear and I ended up here....can somebody lend me cab fare for HC?:rotflmao OH MY...youz joos jumped teh snaRrk!!

[soulohio]

:rotflmao OH MY...youz joos jumped teh snaRrk!!

I prefer to think that i just jumped teh Dumble....

[jtm622]

Seems like there's a certain dignity in knowing when you're no longer Lord of the Chatroom. I've been on this forum and others long enough to get the sense that there's a natural evolution. The old timers establish a baseline, tend to show a lot of respect towards each other, and unfortunately, engage in a lot of mutual admiration. To the newcomers, that's just forum in-breeding, and sometimes (not always) they tend not to think that the old timers were all that wise to begin with, and so on. That's only my 2 cents, and may not be worth that. It just seems to me that when one sits around and laments the fact that there's not enough worthwhile topics discussed any more, that different people are given respect that used to go to someone else, etc. it's maybe time to ask if one is taking the online persona thing a bit too seriously.

There's a lot of decent people here, some pretty bright, funny, even expert. The moderators seem to do a good job keeping things from getting too infantile. I just don't see the invasion of HC barbarians that others do. But what do I know. There's a reason that I delete most of my non-photo posts. :wave

"Lord of the Chatroom???"
Holy sh#t... That post brought tears to my eyes... I spit the last Coors Light from that 18-pack all over myself...
Now, what is the reason you "delete most of your non-photo posts???"


:)

[schmidlin]

And it looks like Harmony Central has put together a TGP Refugee Survival Guide on the home page...
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/faq.php
...end of an era.

[cmatthes]

I was here for all that and yes, it has turned a corner.
It use to be kinda an elite private club....Really.
However, things will change when the mass comes charging in.
The old schoolers have hashed and rehashed every subject at hand in every forum over and over.
This is the reason why I hang in the pub 90% of the time the last few years.
I like shooting the shit with fellow muscians, but am done with thee BF vs....Dumble vs......Trainwrecks are...Keeley is ....Dipwad Dirtbag Drive is the shitz.....Double Boner Deluxe Super Six Wad is heaven...only with the limited hand painted faceplate.
It gets old.
BTW.....My new....is...:D
I miss it, but still am having some fun here.

I've been around since the old PRS Forum days from a decade ago, and frankly am GLAD that it's changed. The fawning and arrogance over a handful of self-appointed "Mojo Guru Posters" was getting to be a bit much, but since that stuff has kind of mellowed, I'm definitely spending more time here again. Those types gave this place a bad rep at many other forums. I think the sandbox is a lot more friendly and welcoming now.

I could do without the lame StarWars stuff, idiotic polls and those retarded kittens with the mangled English (really? you're HOW old?), but I really just ignore that crap anyway.

Lots of good people here with knowledge and advice to share and definitely some good deals.

[Midnight Lady]

you mean the Pub used to be some sorta temple of chaste knowledge and unbridled principle where only knights spoke of women with honor and music was played by temple edumacated masons? Excuse me, I was looking at a sign that said Liquor in teh Front, Poker in the Rear and I ended up here....can somebody lend me cab fare for HC?

http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv15/thesoapboxpage/HAPPY%20LAUGH/smiley-laughing024.gif

[Ricman]

Me, I think folk shouldn't be allowed to post until their post count hits about...I dunno...305 or so. YMMV.

Thanks. I'll be awake most of the night now figuring how this one is going to work... :D

[Blindspot]

Guys like Matte would promo some new cool guitar several times a month.



........

[Dillow4092]

The post count means nothing to me. It's not like you get a free piece of gear after a certain number or something.

[mike walker]

you mean the Pub used to be some sorta temple of chaste knowledge and unbridled principle where only knights spoke of women with honor and music was played by temple edumacated masons? Excuse me, I was looking at a sign that said Liquor in teh Front, Poker in the Rear and I ended up here....can somebody lend me cab fare for HC?

If ya think there's a 'back in the day' then this post will be quoted in 10 years time....... 'ya know.... i remember when...'... so this will be someone's 'back in the day....' Ever was it thus. 'ya know ....I remember when Socrates..... now that's when ice cream was really ice cream'....

Classic post.

On another point, Tag was trying so hard not to get banned. All i ever heard him say was... 'can't say anymore...' etc.

RichardB got slapped the other day and posts got deleted.

I felt we could handle it ourselves. It didnt seem like a big deal, especially in the light of 'Jimmy hendrix..what's the point?' type threads.

I personally feel the tolerance bar needs to be raised a little to encourage a little more free expression and debate. I don't just mean allowing certain threads that could be incendiary (immigration) or allowing trolls to rampage.

Just a little more breathing room. Especially where folks are so passionate, and also where they would step up to apologize if they bite too quickly.

[crosse79]

For me, some things changed for the better - some things changed for the worst. I'll just go with the flow.

[Scott Peterson]

I've been posting the following for the last 7 years. No lie. Still 100% to the topic here, which pops up about once every 6 months.

Change is the currency of the Interwebs. Forums are what you make them; instead of simply pining for what was, why not create what is?

It is up to the members to get beyond the knee-jerk equivalent of 'crying over split milk' of folks that have moved away - temporarily or permanently - and instead do something to create the sort of atmosphere that enhances and attracts such folks to stay.

We've made very serious commitments to re-enforce our 'civil' behavior rules here; and for the most part that was the issue for some of the folks that have left. Once they check in again, they just might find that many of the problems that caused them to leave are no longer prevalent.

And perhaps not; there is an arc to active memberships here and folks go through life changes that make active - some VERY active - 'forum lives' just no longer possible for a variety of reasons. The majority of them are not forum related at all, but instead actual real life situations changing.

My main point is that things change, the Interwebs and Forums are constantly moving, shifting and changing in a myriad of ways. It's the nature of the beast. Instead of getting caught up in what's changed, it'd be a far more rewarding experience for all involved that are active to instead create and foster an atmosphere that they would enjoy in the here-and-now. Birds of a feather.

Peace.

[JRC4558Dude]

TGP is what you make it.

Instead of starting a thread called "Worst guitar solos of all time," why not try posting one called "Albums that you didn't dig at first, but now you love."

Instead of starting a thread called "Why do people spend so much on stupid Cornish pedals?" why not post one that says "Killer ODs under $100. What say you?"

It's not that hard to be positive and promote fun and interesting discussion. :)

[JoeB63]

I've been around since the old PRS Forum days from a decade ago, and frankly am GLAD that it's changed. The fawning and arrogance over a handful of self-appointed "Mojo Guru Posters" was getting to be a bit much, but since that stuff has kind of mellowed, I'm definitely spending more time here again. Those types gave this place a bad rep at many other forums. I think the sandbox is a lot more friendly and welcoming now.

I could do without the lame StarWars stuff, idiotic polls and those retarded kittens with the mangled English (really? you're HOW old?), but I really just ignore that crap anyway.

Lots of good people here with knowledge and advice to share and definitely some good deals.

I feel similarly. And though I really hate to be one of those "Back in my day....." guys, a couple of things I've noticed recently:

1) I seem to see quite a bit more rehashing of old topics. But I supposed that's OK, because newer members don't know they're posting a topic or question that been posted 25 times before. I guess more encouragement to use the Search function can help.

2) I see more bad advice. Lately, I've been reading lots of bad advice in response to tone/gear issues. Just a lot of emphatic "what you need is..." responses that are just not right, or at least way suboptimal -- clearly given by members with limited experience -- often drowning out more knowledgeable responses in the same thread.

And for the record, I don't think I've ever clicked on a Dr. Tweedbucket thread. Not my thing for sure.

[Phil M]

I miss the good ol' TGP days, when we used to carve posts into granite with copper chisels.

*sigh*

Maybe YOU don't do that anymore ...

[Jon C]

OUCH!!! :eek::cry::hide

sometimes the facts are tough ... Splatt put it well, I think (and his lesser involvement is also a big loss IMO) ... it's surely not all bad, I continue to support it, but "signal to noise ratio" is a perfect abstract for judging where 'we' are, and it has trended markedly down for some time ... some like that, some don't, it just is and each can make of that what they wish. ;)

[Boris Bubbanov]

1) I seem to see quite a bit more rehashing of old topics. But I supposed that's OK, because newer members don't know they're posting a topic or question that been posted 25 times before. I guess more encouragement to use the Search function can help.

2) I see more bad advice. Lately, I've been reading lots of bad advice in response to tone/gear issues. Just a lot of emphatic "what you need is..." responses that are just not right, or at least way suboptimal -- clearly given by members with limited experience -- often drowning out more knowledgeable responses in the same thread.



Reposting of a worn out topic is generally about the poster and not the information being discussed. The poster is looking to be the center point of the discussion and he wants control over the outcome of the discussion.
I don't think these guys are fools. They just crave some attention and sometimes a more peripheral topic is just gonna be ignored. Go for what works in the past, even though you know long time readers/posters are just sick of it.

And your second point is corollary to the first. People who KNOW the information is incorrect get tired of being bashed for trying to get folks back on track. What becomes common understanding is based on how many times the misinformation is repeated and Google keys off that. Also, I know full well a serious number of people know more than I do. If I wait for the very most insightful guys to post the true grit however, the amount of incorrect garbage just gets so massive no one could knock the pile down. So I step in even if my answer is second best.

[mge80]

My main point is that things change, the Interwebs and Forums are constantly moving, shifting and changing in a myriad of ways. It's the nature of the beast. Instead of getting caught up in what's changed, it'd be a far more rewarding experience for all involved that are active to instead create and foster an atmosphere that they would enjoy in the here-and-now. Birds of a feather.


This one paragraph pretty succinctly describes why my own participation level is way down from previous levels. :dunno

[Garygtr]

Not questioning the expertise of anyone mentioned by the OP, but I think even a casual observance of some of the patterns of behavior in the "old days" would reveal some slightly fishy behavior (<cough cough> rhymes with "fill" <cough cough>) that perhaps has curtailed a bit. With the increase in membership, there has also been an increase in the number of opinions, meaning that the lemmings have more options than ever! Stay positive, man! ;)

[Foxtrot]

5YCm03wV8dw

Irrerregardless of what has or will become of TGP, cats have become bipeds & will soon destroy us. Enjoy your last few days feeble humans.

[greggorypeccary]

The post count means nothing to me. It's not like you get a free piece of gear after a certain number or something.

Damn, you mean I don't get a free Tele when I hit 4,000? :(

[Neer]

...some slightly fishy behavior (<cough cough> rhymes with "fill" <cough cough>) ......;)


Krill?

[Killcrop]

TGP used to have a couple thousand members. Now it has 60K plus. The good stuff is still there but it's lost in the clutter that amounts to what is overheard at your local GC.

[Greggy]

Not questioning the expertise of anyone mentioned by the OP, but I think even a casual observance of some of the patterns of behavior in the "old days" would reveal some slightly fishy behavior (<cough cough> rhymes with "fill" <cough cough>) that perhaps has curtailed a bit. With the increase in membership, there has also been an increase in the number of opinions, meaning that the lemmings have more options than ever! Stay positive, man! ;)

Correct, and I had always assumed the Matte likely left because he wasn't moving enough product here, and found a better market (another website) for his product and services elsewhere. I have no problem with that, if true. And I believe he disclosed his affiliations in his sig block. So all's well IMO.

[Foxtrot]

TGP used to have a couple thousand members. Now it has 60K plus. The good stuff is still there but it's lost in the clutter that amounts to what is overheard at your local GC.

"I don't like that one. It has too much mids."

[Neer]

The dynamic between the young guitarist and the older guitarist is funny. It is the same as in any other branch of human relations -- antagonist vs. antagonized, parent vs. child, etc. Many younger guys think the older guys have deep pockets and just like boutique stuff (and can't play, are old-fashioned, etc), while the older guys think the younger guys are clueless, etc.

The best thing, though, is that regardless of where you stand, you get to interact with others who love the guitar. Differences of opinions--yes, but it's still guitars and music. Lighten up and enjoy.

[djem]

I have learned a lot about gear on this forum and the others I frequent. It's a great place, but not like it used to be. All things change and there's little we can do to control it.

I have also learned that my preoccupation with gear takes away from my playing. A while back I made a decision to spend more time playing and to start selling off gear that I don't use. It's weird, but when I let a piece of gear go, I feel so relieved. IE: one less thing to maintain.

[pickaguitar]

I miss the old TGP. If you're new, I'm not trying to start a fight. But when I first joined, there was so much new stuff every day. Guys like Matte would promo some new cool guitar several times a month. Same with amps. Discussions could get heated but they always seemed informative. I learned about wet rigs and attenuators. I learned about lots of cool pedals. I learned about a cool new player every month. Tag was alway putting his money where his mouth was. Now Tag is banned until Atlantis rises again and what we mostly have is put down threads aimed at everyone from Zep to Hendrix. That and silly stuff like booger flinging and bikini threads.

Pile on:hide2
not a matte, splatt nor tag fan...I like it just the way it is

[MudPies]

It's always fun to read the assumptions people have about folks they don't even know. There's lots of it in this thread.

[Jon Silberman]

To paraphrase jimfog (who said it jokingly but he just might be literally correct), "This place ain't been what it was since August '03."

As someone who joined the predecessor PRS Forum in mid-1999, understand and accept that it's constantly evolving and never is what it was or will be what it is.

Myself, I find it increasingly difficult to form the kind of deep friendships here with new people like we did when we had under 100 members in '99 and the signal to noise ratio keeps dropping but it's still my best source for quick and useful guidance on music gear issues.

It's always fun to read the assumptions people have about folks they don't even know. There's lots of it in this thread.

And it's impossible to avoid, really, when you have so many thousands of people yapping at once. This is part of why it's increasingly difficult to form deep friendships here. It's the difference between a small community and Manhattan. However, personally, I love Manhattan. New York got the ways and means, it just won't let you be. Enjoy the ways and means as best you can.

[Scott Peterson]

What a lot of these threads (err, sorts of threads) always read like to me through my cynic filter:

"Everyone should be more like me, and agree with me, and always agree with me. And if you don't agree with me, then you are wrong and I don't like you or this place."

Perhaps I am too cynical sometimes, but there you are. Funny thing is the cynics that believe/post/espouse that sort of logic are the ones that post the most frequently and consistently. :D

I also would like to say this, as someone that was there from the humble beginning - "It never will be, never is and most importantly never was what it was." It's constant flux and has ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY from the beginning. It's never a snapshot of 'now' or 'then' more than it's waves in an ocean... always there, always shifting, sometimes calm, sometimes stormy. You can snap a pic at any one time and 'freeze' it, but that's an unrealistic thing and hollow thing to 'hold onto' as any real guage of what this sort of communication is.

To speak to the OP and thread title directly - TGP hasn't 'turned the corner' because there are NO corners. It's a roundabout. It speeds up, it slows down, it flows. Constant movement, built on cycles and flows. Like a river, not a still pond.

[Echoes]

be the change you want to see

[lazyjames]

Like guitar-based music itself... things ain't what they used to be.

[Papajuice]

Been around here for a long time my main complaint and it not only goes for a lot of post and replies but also you see it happening in everyday life is, what seems to be a lack of respect. I agree there are a great number of good thread going but it just seems that even those start getting slammed with negative comments. Start a thread on how you enjoyed watching the last CMT crossroads with John Mayer and Keith Urban and with in a dozen post you will get a comment about how john Mayer suxs or that Keith really doesn't have good tone. If you don't like want is being said go somewhere else, there are plent of threads to go around. I am not saying that if there is a debate on say the newest pedal you don't throw your 2 cent's in I am just saying all the real negative comments are getting kinda old.

[D.Cooper]

Pretty much this^. After 10 years on forums I've asked and answered pretty much every question I can and I'm now at the point where I'm pretty much happy with my gear and tone.

:agree

I have one pedal on-order right now and after I get that I probably wont be purchasing any other gear for years to come. I got a lot of good advice on TGP (even made a large purchase based on the reviews here) but now I am satisfied in my tone search.

And I know I can't say much being a fairly new member but I can say that I still find this forum to be very informative and fun at the same time. Even though I'm not looking to buy anything else I still enjoy discussions about gear.

[whitehall]

Yep, the last wave of newbies pretty much killed it for me. Now it's just a free classified with a chat room attached to it. May as well be the called the lowend gear page. I won't be putting any more money into it. I found a couple of other forums more to my liking.

[Phil M]

As a discussion board I use it less than I used to, but I still say this is the best place around to buy and sell used gear. It's been a godsend over the last few years because I've been able to sample everything I've ever wanted to and then sell it without losing $$$. It's also helped me when the poo hit the fan for me and I needed to sell a lot of stuff.

Well worth the price of admission and sifting through a lame thread here or there.

[JoeB63]

Let face it, this forum was more fun when the economy was flying, so if you saw a guitar or amp that caught your eye, you would just buy it. (Worst case, you could easily flip it back up here and get your money back). Used gear is cheaper now, but it's so hard to pull the trigger. Less fun.

[Edit, I just saw Phil's post ahead of mine. I guess he disagrees with my above premise.]

[JoeB63]

Yep, the last wave of newbies pretty much killed it for me. Now it's just a free classified with a chat room attached to it. May as well be the called the lowend gear page. I won't be putting any more money into it. I found a couple of other forums more to my liking.

What are they? I've almost exclusively limited my guitar forum surfing to this site, as to not waste all my time on-line, but I'm open to suggestions.

[cram]

all of the positives the OP cites can still be found easily.

I find a lot of talent on this board and is the reason I return to it.
I've learned a lot and had assumptions about gear corrected.
The nature of a network is that you have to be selective and learn how to find the things of interest and value to yourself.
I don't care if 500 Bikini companion threads came through, I just simply don't care and know that I can find what I'm looking for here based upon my first sentence in this reply.

I've posted this in reply to similar threads like this before:
There's a "New Posts" link on the submenu/nav for the board. The link is the following, which executes a query with an ID returned:
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/search.php?do=getnew
..given all the crap people feel has been infiltrating or cropping up with frequency in the forums, I think a new "DO"option is the following:
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/search.php?do=getnewNOPUB

Benefits -
The site could filter out a lot of the noise for people like the OP who wish to find more gear related info.
The admins would have less to do as your steering users to a new doorway or at least providing a different option or query.

As for the content found in reply to gear related threads, that's the nature of the beast as well. I don't think I've ever seen a forum without this going on.

[soulohio]

snip...

Myself, I find it increasingly difficult to form the kind of deep friendships here with new people like we did when we had under 100 members in '99 and the signal to noise ratio keeps dropping but it's still my best source for quick and useful guidance on music gear issues.

...snip

I would be happy to be your friend:D:D

[Phalanx200bc]

Its still more entertaining and informative than any issue of Guitar Player that has come out recently.

Also...the Pub is the Pub....which is a side-show to the main jist of this forum.

People will move on or stay....The baby boomer contingent will slowly be replaced by another. Albert Collins fans will be replaced by Shredder/jazz/fusion whatever.....

Time rolls on....

[C.J.]

Sure seems to me this board is about mainly just making lists.

Best pedal to sound like SRV...
best guitarist who only used one finger...
best rock video featuring a white tiger..
etc ad nauseum

i'd love to see some actual discussion once in a while, personally. i could do without everyone's personal ranking of everything related to music.

[mnjordan]

I was here when the original Gear Page launched, near the end of the old PRS Forum. My user name was Michael Nolan back then.

I'm not looking at much gear these days, because I'm pretty set, but I still find it as fun to "hang out" here as I did back then.

[MudPies]

Sure seems to me this board is about mainly just making lists.

Best pedal to sound like SRV...
best guitarist who only used one finger...
best rock video featuring a white tiger..
etc ad nauseum

i'd love to see some actual discussion once in a while, personally. i could do without everyone's personal ranking of everything related to music.

The discussions turn sour as soon as one person, even politely, says they don't care for (fill in the blank). As soon as that happens 5 guys will come out slamming the other person saying they're just being negative, even if the first person was just politely expressing their opinion on the subject.

I feel many think you can't say you don't like something. It must harm them in some way.

[whitehall]

What are they? I've almost exclusively limited my guitar forum surfing to this site, as to not waste all my time on-line, but I'm open to suggestions.
Oh they are out there. Forums where you had better think about it before you post. Because if it's something stupid you will be made sport of. And the mods won't save your ass. The LPF was like that , 10 years ago.

[pickaguitar]

Oh they are out there. Forums where you had better think about it before you post. Because if it's something stupid you will be made sport of. And the mods won't save your ass. The LPF was like that , 10 years ago.
bye :wave

[Ultron]

I find the posts from the angry insane people here sustain and nourish me.

[whitehall]

bye :wave
I'm not leaving, I'm just not putting up any more money....just like you.

[MudPies]

Oh they are out there. Forums where you had better think about it before you post. Because if it's something stupid you will be made sport of. And the mods won't save your ass. The LPF was like that , 10 years ago.

Sounds like it's everything that Scott and Co don't want TGP to become.

[stratzrus]

I had always assumed the Matte likely left because he wasn't moving enough product here, and found a better market (another website) for his product and services elsewhere. I have no problem with that, if true.I sincerely doubt that's the case.

I'm pretty familiar with Matte's posts and they were always insightful, about a wide variety of gear, and while he would discuss his company's gear when appropriate I never felt he pushed it.

He just posted some photos of a great korina Les Paul in the last few days. When he posts, it's worthwhile checking out.

[ripoffriffs]

I really think people just need to get off forums in general and just practice/play their guitar.

[ripoffriffs]

Scott,

With thread below, you should've just locked it to end it. Cause you just summarized it all.

What a lot of these threads (err, sorts of threads) always read like to me through my cynic filter:

"Everyone should be more like me, and agree with me, and always agree with me. And if you don't agree with me, then you are wrong and I don't like you or this place."

Perhaps I am too cynical sometimes, but there you are. Funny thing is the cynics that believe/post/espouse that sort of logic are the ones that post the most frequently and consistently. :D

I also would like to say this, as someone that was there from the humble beginning - "It never will be, never is and most importantly never was what it was." It's constant flux and has ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY from the beginning. It's never a snapshot of 'now' or 'then' more than it's waves in an ocean... always there, always shifting, sometimes calm, sometimes stormy. You can snap a pic at any one time and 'freeze' it, but that's an unrealistic thing and hollow thing to 'hold onto' as any real guage of what this sort of communication is.

To speak to the OP and thread title directly - TGP hasn't 'turned the corner' because there are NO corners. It's a roundabout. It speeds up, it slows down, it flows. Constant movement, built on cycles and flows. Like a river, not a still pond.

[MudPies]

Scott,

With thread below, you should've just locked it to end it. Cause you just summarized it all.

That would just cause some here to say "hmmm, why are they stifling discussion?"

[pickaguitar]

I'm not leaving, I'm just not putting up any more money....just like you.
Weird.

I pay up...will continue to

[hk45acp]

That would just cause some here to say "hmmm, why are they stifling discussion?"

I think the problem is there is no discussion just hating or crowing.
I looked at the Van Halen new material thread and within 4 posts the haters were on board. Just because you have an opinion on something doesn't necessarily mean you MUST post it. Don't go into a thread and start hating!

[MudPies]

I think the problem is there is no discussion just hating or crowing.
I looked at the Van Halen new material thread and within 4 posts the haters were on board. Just because you have an opinion on something doesn't necessarily mean you MUST post it. Don't go into a thread and start hating!

Link to the thread so we can see the hateraid?

[Chops]

Seems pretty much the same as it always did to me. I'm less interested in it than I used to be, but I'll continue to donate cash as long as the owners care to keep it going. It is a nice resource to have available.

[Jerry Shaw]

Link to the thread so we can see the hateraid?

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=773638

[MudPies]

Methinks he's overreacting.

[splatt]

TAG is over at HC but his threads die really fast over there. Hes more of a joke and not taken seriously, hes not worshipped like he is here.
i always liked tag;
really a good guy, w/a good heart, and weird as all-get-out, to boot.
never worshiped him, though;
what an odd thing to do, methinks, generally.

dt / spltrcl

[Blues Power]

whats wrong with bikini threads. its the only excitement i can get at my age.
I cant watch any porn b/c id die of a stroke wtaching them hot youggins eat things up.

[ford]

I still have fun here......

When I started Tag was all about the Bruno's..... those were some interesting arguments....

[will132]

I miss Tedm's posts and music. I think he's still around, but laying low.

[Ricky_Rockhardo]

Just burned twenty minutes reading this thread so far. Seems we all have something to post, but rarely anything to really say, (myself included) that amounts to anything significant. Pilling on this guy, that gear or music style, just to hear ourselves speak. Nothing more than the latest bumper sticker could say, like, "my dad kicks your dad's arse while he's knocking boots with your mom". Driving the post count up, for the sake of driving it up, to gain that credibility so to speak, in our own minds.

Post #123, now open for discussion, after all not one of us posted this here:

:worthless

You all know you can't have a decent thread without it......

[JeffD]

I find the posts from the angry insane people here sustain and nourish me.

If it weren't for angry, insane people, I would be out of work. Thanks!

[JeffD]

i always liked tag;
really a good guy, w/a good heart, and weird as all-get-out, to boot.
never worshiped him, though;
what an odd thing to do, methinks, generally.

dt / spltrcl

I agree on all counts, and am sorry he's out. Made the place more interesting.

[AllenMance]

Heck, I'd rather they removed the post counts so people wouldn't assume things about a number.


Exactly... When I 1st came on here I was pretty much told I didn't know anything cause my post count wasn't high. Little did they know I own well over a million dollars worth of gear. I liked the comment, "What do you know, you've posted here 5 times" on a vintage guitar question I answered. I got that comment on the 1st day!

EGO's, dumb rules, and the economy killed this forum.. Plain and simple.

Allen

[freedom's door]

I don't know that i've been here long enough to notice a substantial change, but one thing i notice the longer i am here is the occurrence of "repeat" threads.
Start a smoking/non-smoking thread, you'll see the same replies from the same people in every other smoking/non-smoking thread. Same goes for cycling, disciplining kids, John Mayer, new VH album, etc ad nauseam...

So i just skip those threads altogether. I feel sorry for the mods who have to read the same things over and over though.
I do enjoy the financial threads in the pub- there's usually some insightful posts amongst the arguing, and some of the threads in the sound hound lounge are great ways to discover/be reminded of great music.
As for gear, i have slightly above zero interest (i'm happy with my acoustic and a tuning fork), so other than the picture threads, i don't even bother with those areas.

I do agree that this place is what we make it, for better or worse.

[pmcqueen]

I don't know that i've been here long enough to notice a substantial change, but one thing i notice the longer i am here is the occurrence of "repeat" threads.
Start a smoking/non-smoking thread, you'll see the same replies from the same people in every other smoking/non-smoking thread. Same goes for cycling, disciplining kids, John Mayer, new VH album, etc ad nauseam...

So i just skip those threads altogether. I feel sorry for the mods who have to read the same things over and over though.
I do enjoy the financial threads in the pub- there's usually some insightful posts amongst the arguing, and some of the threads in the sound hound lounge are great ways to discover/be reminded of great music.
As for gear, i have slightly above zero interest (i'm happy with my acoustic and a tuning fork), so other than the picture threads, i don't even bother with those areas.

I do agree that this place is what we make it, for better or worse.

I'm sort of the same way. I mean, I have some boutique stuff, but I really couldn't care less what I'm playing... I find it more fun to banter with other musicians and it's just a good waste of time when I'm waiting around for a helpdesk call.

it's the same in any forum with regard to the reoccurrence of certain themes.. has nothing to do with TGP turning a corner, that's just how it is.

additionally, waning interest or enthusiasm about gear, and/or not finding topics that interest you at a given point in time serve to alter your perception of the value of a forum.

my thoughts aren't based on experience here, but experience with forums & the interwebs in general.

[joemilitello]

Meh. Every month or so there is a "Is TGP going down the tubes" thread.

There's just more people here. We've moved from a big town to a small city. Other than that, I don't see that big of a change, and I'm an old hand.

I've been posting the following for the last 7 years. No lie. Still 100% to the topic here, which pops up about once every 6 months.

Change is the currency of the Interwebs. Forums are what you make them; instead of simply pining for what was, why not create what is?

It is up to the members to get beyond the knee-jerk equivalent of 'crying over split milk' of folks that have moved away - temporarily or permanently - and instead do something to create the sort of atmosphere that enhances and attracts such folks to stay.

We've made very serious commitments to re-enforce our 'civil' behavior rules here; and for the most part that was the issue for some of the folks that have left. Once they check in again, they just might find that many of the problems that caused them to leave are no longer prevalent.

And perhaps not; there is an arc to active memberships here and folks go through life changes that make active - some VERY active - 'forum lives' just no longer possible for a variety of reasons. The majority of them are not forum related at all, but instead actual real life situations changing.

My main point is that things change, the Interwebs and Forums are constantly moving, shifting and changing in a myriad of ways. It's the nature of the beast. Instead of getting caught up in what's changed, it'd be a far more rewarding experience for all involved that are active to instead create and foster an atmosphere that they would enjoy in the here-and-now. Birds of a feather.

Peace.

You, sir, are The Man.

:bow

Well put.

[hk45acp]

Methinks he's overreacting.

I'm not angry bout it, just pointing out one example. In this case a guy posts a nice story about meeting DLR and some news on upcoming VH stuff and in the 4th post he's attacked by someone who takes umbrage with the guy's comparison of DLR and Paul McCartney.
Did you HAVE to post that?
Did that thread have to degenerate into a Hagar v Roth argument? No. but these days you can be 90% chance sure that it will

[tedm]

I don't think it's ever coming back, sadly.

But I do try to visit here a couple times a week and make things a bit positive and cheerful :BluesBros

I miss the old TGP. If you're new, I'm not trying to start a fight. But when I first joined, there was so much new stuff every day. Guys like Matte would promo some new cool guitar several times a month. Same with amps. Discussions could get heated but they always seemed informative. I learned about wet rigs and attenuators. I learned about lots of cool pedals. I learned about a cool new player every month. Tag was alway putting his money where his mouth was. Now Tag is banned until Atlantis rises again and what we mostly have is put down threads aimed at everyone from Zep to Hendrix. That and silly stuff like booger flinging and bikini threads.

Pile on:hide2

[Crazyquilt]

I'm actually going to go out on a limb and say that I think those who feel that the changes in TGP are just the normal ones that occur in an online community over time are wrong. Instead, I would suggest heeding those who are saying, "It's the economy, stupid."

When there's less new stuff to talk about because folks have less to spend on new stuff, and, at the same time, there are significantly more people talking about a diminishing pool of items...well, that would seem to take a lot of the shared fun out of the equation, no?

Unfortunately, because I think that the major change I've seen in TGP is fundamentally economic in nature, there's nothing any of us can do about that reality but adapt. However, that means that those of us who are moved to try and make the community a better place every time we post (or DON'T post) probably have an even greater responsibility to uphold.

Tough times, no matter how you look at it.

[DGTCrazy]

I used to have this posted on my desk at the fire station:

"Change inevitable, growth optional".


For me TGP is like music; Some songs I really like, other are ...meh...and some are stinkers....based on my bias. I am a member of BaM, and I look forward to meeting some of the fella's at the 2010 Experience. That is something I don't see with TGP due to it's broad appeal, and not just the respect for one manufacturer.

I think the real rub with forums like this are that we can sit behind a keyboard, and really don't have a good feel for those who are trying to express an opinion.

Aside from Emoticons, we have no real way of having our words in sync with our attitude or emotions. One person's sarcasm is another persons simple observations. Threads turn on a dime with the potential misinterpretation of one word or phrase.

I hope no one takes this wrong, but the idea of having, say, an over 30 section would be appealing. My take on life, music, people is entirely different now. Having been married, with kids, for 16 years, and have played music for over 30 years, I am just out of sync with a 20 something.

And how many people have /need moderators when engaged in everyday conversations? Not a lot I suppose, because when I see a person, I make a connection that has an instant back and forth dialog. But for some reason, some folks feel a bit more embolden sitting behind the anonymity of a keyboard which is a shame.

[Lucidology]

Solved this problem a long time ago ...
Just go back into the TGP archives & resurrect threads that are important to you ..
Relevant subjects don't die, their meanings don't diminish because folk talked about the same thing a few years back ..
& are, of course, especially timeless when it comes to gear, music appreciation, repairs, playing advice.. etc..

If you want to hear/share what folk who are no longer members had to say/play at one time ...
Do a little searching ... bump a thread back into existence ...
Besides there's a lot of priceless TGP music, advice & discussions that should be kept alive IMO ...
REALLY GOOD STUFF, might I add ...

If you don't care for a lot of stuff that's being posted now ..
simply do a TGP search & kick threads that mean something to you back into existence ...
Good subjects will never lose their appeal ...

In additional, many of the newer members here will be glad you did...

[mike walker]

Solved this problem a long time ago ...
Just go back into the TGP archives & resurrect threads that are important to you ..
Relevant subjects don't die, their meanings don't diminish because folk talked about the same thing a few years back ..
& are, of course, especially timeless when it comes to gear, music appreciation, repairs, playing advice.. etc..

If you want to hear/share what folk who are no longer members had to say/play at one time ...
Do a little searching ... bump a thread back into existence ...
Besides there's a lot of priceless TGP music, advice & discussions that should be kept alive IMO ...
REALLY GOOD STUFF, might I add ...

If you don't care for a lot of stuff that's being posted now ..
simply do a TGP search & kick threads that mean something to you back into existence ...
Good subjects will never lose their appeal ...

In additional, many of the newer members here will be glad you did...

It happened....in Monterey........:D

[Brian Scherzer]

I read every post on the thread and found a lot of material in posts that was meaningful to me........whether the posts were about how TGP has changed for the worse, or posts that see it differently. Perhaps a bit of reflection on what was envisioned when TGP started would help.

Above all, my personal philosophy in opening this forum while ending the PRS Forum was that there was room on the internet for a place that musicians could form an online community for mutual support and information sharing.....with respect shown to all.....from beginner to Grammy winner. Also important to me was giving new builders a chance to become known. We (the music industry) had made a lot of changes and more gear was available than ever before.

Lots of things have changed in the 8+ years that TGP has been around. Music has changed, the gear has changed and the attitudes of at least some musicians appear to have changed. I won't attempt to speak for Scott or the moderators, but will say what *I* feel and think.

The average age on TGP is younger than it used to be. Morals appear to have changed also. It is no longer considered "bad form" to download music that wasn't paid for, or to abuse a trademark or copyright, or to hold back some thoughts that might not be best served by appearing on a website. Yet, my belief that musicians still are well-served by having an online place to chat remains solid.

At the risk of alienating some members, there is too much "you need to see things the way I see them" in posts. There is too little "live and let live" between some members. Some members have a lot of difficulty accepting differences of OPINION and push their own opinions as "fact". There are members who could care less about our rules and choose to post in a very aggressive and mean-spirited way. However, there are also members who want TGP to be totally "politically correct" and are hyper-sensitive to the point of reporting posts that none of us (the admin/moderator team) see as being against our rules. We are constantly pushed by some to ban more and more topics.

When I rewrote the rules (and there are very few rules outside of those governing the emporiums), I made a decision that I had made a long time ago when running the PRS Forum.........the rules will reflect my own belief in how people should treat each other. I make no apologies for that. I happen to be the oldest (57 yrs. old) member of the TGP team, so my beliefs might just rub some people the wrong way.

For instance, with no apologies made, I will never tolerate significant rudeness towards our members. It amazes me how many members (some are now former members) don't seem to understand that calling someone else's ideas "stupid" is impolite. Yes, there are undoubtedly times when we (the TGP team) have over-reacted. It is because we are not perfect and are sometimes looking at MANY reported posts and trying to get through them. I know that my own mood changes when I open my email box and see more than 100 emails that I have to sift through. Yet, the vast majority of members here, including MANY with well over 1000 posts, have never received a warning or an infraction.

Those who were with us during the PRS Forum years might remember some tense times on that site. There were arguments and threads about that forum "going downhill". What made a huge difference was the fact that we had our forum events that were co-sponsored by Paul Smith, and a number of members attended, getting to meet each other in person. A much closer bond was formed among those of us who attended the events. That bond still exists to this day.

We are long overdue for a TGP get-together. When we eventually put an event together, I suspect that those who attend will see each other differently. That sense of actually knowing someone goes a long way towards having a different perspective on who each of us are. Until then, I am determined to weed out those people who either can't or won't be civil to others. Rudeness will be the prime focus of the moderators and, with luck, we will back off of the ticky-tack stuff.

Please make TGP what you would like it to be. Contribute your knowledge to the "collective" (yes, I watched too many Star Trek episodes) and refuse to be a part of the anger that sometimes boils over on a discussion site. We have grown a lot, which is not always good, but YOU (the entire membership) will always have more to do with our successes than the admins or moderators. If YOU leave, we all lose........but we will go on.

Thanks for "listening".........Brian

[mike walker]

I read every post on the thread and found a lot of material in posts that was meaningful to me........whether the posts were about how TGP has changed for the worse, or posts that see it differently. Perhaps a bit of reflection on what was envisioned when TGP started would help.

Above all, my personal philosophy in opening this forum while ending the PRS Forum was that there was room on the internet for a place that musicians could form an online community for mutual support and information sharing.....with respect shown to all.....from beginner to Grammy winner. Also important to me was giving new builders a chance to become known. We (the music industry) had made a lot of changes and more gear was available than ever before.

Lots of things have changed in the 8+ years that TGP has been around. Music has changed, the gear has changed and the attitudes of at least some musicians appear to have changed. I won't attempt to speak for Scott or the moderators, but will say what *I* feel and think.

The average age on TGP is younger than it used to be. Morals appear to have changed also. It is no longer considered "bad form" to download music that wasn't paid for, or to abuse a trademark or copyright, or to hold back some thoughts that might not be best served by appearing on a website. Yet, my belief that musicians still are well-served by having an online place to chat remains solid.

At the risk of alienating some members, there is too much "you need to see things the way I see them" in posts. There is too little "live and let live" between some members. Some members have a lot of difficulty accepting differences of OPINION and push their own opinions as "fact". There are members who could care less about our rules and choose to post in a very aggressive and mean-spirited way. However, there are also members who want TGP to be totally "politically correct" and are hyper-sensitive to the point of reporting posts that none of us (the admin/moderator team) see as being against our rules. We are constantly pushed by some to ban more and more topics.

When I rewrote the rules (and there are very few rules outside of those governing the emporiums), I made a decision that I had made a long time ago when running the PRS Forum.........the rules will reflect my own belief in how people should treat each other. I make no apologies for that. I happen to be the oldest (57 yrs. old) member of the TGP team, so my beliefs might just rub some people the wrong way.

For instance, with no apologies made, I will never tolerate significant rudeness towards our members. It amazes me how many members (some are now former members) don't seem to understand that calling someone else's ideas "stupid" is impolite. Yes, there are undoubtedly times when we (the TGP team) have over-reacted. It is because we are not perfect and are sometimes looking at MANY reported posts and trying to get through them. I know that my own mood changes when I open my email box and see more than 100 emails that I have to sift through. Yet, the vast majority of members here, including MANY with well over 1000 posts, have never received a warning or an infraction.

Those who were with us during the PRS Forum years might remember some tense times on that site. There were arguments and threads about that forum "going downhill". What made a huge difference was the fact that we had our forum events that were co-sponsored by Paul Smith, and a number of members attended, getting to meet each other in person. A much closer bond was formed among those of us who attended the events. That bond still exists to this day.

We are long overdue for a TGP get-together. When we eventually put an event together, I suspect that those who attend will see each other differently. That sense of actually knowing someone goes a long way towards having a different perspective on who each of us are. Until then, I am determined to weed out those people who either can't or won't be civil to others. Rudeness will be the prime focus of the moderators and, with luck, we will back off of the ticky-tack stuff.

Please make TGP what you would like it to be. Contribute your knowledge to the "collective" (yes, I watched too many Star Trek episodes) and refuse to be a part of the anger that sometimes boils over on a discussion site. We have grown a lot, which is not always good, but YOU (the entire membership) will always have more to do with our successes than the admins or moderators. If YOU leave, we all lose........but we will go on.

Thanks for "listening".........Brian

thanks for this.

[ABKB]

Great post by Brain! Thank you sir.

Been here 5 years. Was never at HC. 5 years ago I spent about 5 minutes looking around over there and had zero interest. But TGP still I find very interesting, then, and just as much now. Does no good pining for "the old days". They are gone. I seem to remember folks complaining 5 years ago about the "HC influence". And FWIW, when we get an influx, I see about 3 months where the mods tear their hair out (I'm sure) getting rid of the low lifes from over there, then you are left with the new blood who either are 1- Genuinely serious musicians. Or 2- Troublemakers who realize they cant get away with it here and those folks usually leave after a while anyway, or finally lose it and get kicked off.

A couple other things. The "Tag worship" that has been discussed here is a straw man. I NEVER saw anything resembling that. And I had many discussions with him. He was liked, and respected by some, hated by others. Same as some of the other folks here. But I never saw any cult of personality here around him. Maybe I just missed it. There's another name (and I wont mention his name out of respect) whom I DID see a cult of personality around back then, and I always thought he was a self important bully myself. Do not miss him in the least. Don't care how good he was or how big in the industry he was. A little respect goes a long way and that's true for rock stars and true for 15 year old kids with Epiphones. Few years ago, i saw his name on some other board, and I can't remember which, it was not HC, but it was made quite clear to him he was not welcome there. Names get around I guess.

In the end, as a previous poster said "change is inevitable, growth optional". And while there's growing pains here, that was true then, and is true now. TGP is still a great place despite the changes and always has been in my 5 years I think.

[Brian Scherzer]

I forgot to mention something when I wrote my long post. At least one person mentioned that so many of the "good players" have left (or something to that effect). Members do come and go, including "good" musicians. I have a feeling that a lot of our members don't tend to go read things on the TGP Webzine. If you haven't done it yet, go there and click on the Member CD Listings. Check out the CDs by our members, since all of them have links to soundclips. I am WAYYYY behind and need to add a bunch to that list, but I think that many of you would be surprised by the many fine CDs. They are listed by user name. Some of our members are famous in their own right, some have heavy hitters playing on their CDs, and a lot more members deserve to become famous. Here is a link to the first of four pages......

http://www.tgpwebzine.com/?page_id=1277

That CD section is a great example of what I wanted TGP to be for its members. If we can help members get noticed or if they walk away with something that helps them get the sound they want, well......that is what was behind why TGP exists!

[Mac Daddy 355]

Yes I too feel that the TGP has changed in some ways
Their seems to be a new wave of members that have join this forum
only so they can sell their gear without being charged the Ebay fees

Their are also some members that come from other forums and join TGP simply to cause fiction with no intent on giving something to this very forum
I find that sad at times

Their are some great people here that post informative & entertaining threads
I find that a pleasure to read and interact with

Their are many members that I have met here & now call my friends

Ones gift of sharing ones passion is truly a gift and should never be neglected or disrespected

I will always think of TGP as my home to the ones I come here to bond with

[MudPies]

(it would be pretty rad to have the member cd section sorted by genre)

[Curt]

(it would be pretty rad to have the member cd section sorted by genre)

Yes, it certainly would be rad.

[bluesjuke]

Thanks for the reminder Brian,
I should have been at that link sooner- good stuff there!

[Greggy]

I sincerely doubt that's the case.

I'm pretty familiar with Matte's posts and they were always insightful, about a wide variety of gear, and while he would discuss his company's gear when appropriate I never felt he pushed it.

He just posted some photos of a great korina Les Paul in the last few days. When he posts, it's worthwhile checking out.

I got it. I had no problems with his posts. I was happy to advocate for, and see come to fruition, the policy of requiring the disclosure of affiliations in sig blocks. Brought added integrity to the board.

[ABKB]

I forgot to mention something when I wrote my long post. At least one person mentioned that so many of the "good players" have left (or something to that effect). Members do come and go, including "good" musicians. I have a feeling that a lot of our members don't tend to go read things on the TGP Webzine. If you haven't done it yet, go there and click on the Member CD Listings. Check out the CDs by our members, since all of them have links to soundclips. I am WAYYYY behind and need to add a bunch to that list, but I think that many of you would be surprised by the many fine CDs. They are listed by user name. Some of our members are famous in their own right, some have heavy hitters playing on their CDs, and a lot more members deserve to become famous. Here is a link to the first of four pages......

http://www.tgpwebzine.com/?page_id=1277

That CD section is a great example of what I wanted TGP to be for its members. If we can help members get noticed or if they walk away with something that helps them get the sound they want, well......that is what was behind why TGP exists!

Great point Brian.

I want to add as well, in the context of "good musicians leaving". I may or may not be a good player myself, that's not really the point I'm trying to make. But a few months back I posted some clips of my album in the members clips section. 2 replies, even after a couple bumps over a few days, 2 replies total. It matters not to me if people hate my playing, the point here is I truly do not think anybody here really knows one way or another if it's indeed true that "all the good players have left. Cannot critique something you have not heard.

[Boris Bubbanov]

I'm actually going to go out on a limb and say that I think those who feel that the changes in TGP are just the normal ones that occur in an online community over time are wrong. Instead, I would suggest heeding those who are saying, "It's the economy, stupid."

When there's less new stuff to talk about because folks have less to spend on new stuff, and, at the same time, there are significantly more people talking about a diminishing pool of items...well, that would seem to take a lot of the shared fun out of the equation, no?

Unfortunately, because I think that the major change I've seen in TGP is fundamentally economic in nature, there's nothing any of us can do about that reality but adapt. However, that means that those of us who are moved to try and make the community a better place every time we post (or DON'T post) probably have an even greater responsibility to uphold.

Tough times, no matter how you look at it.

I agree, and I said so in post #42.

;)

[Jon C]

Great point Brian.

I want to add as well, in the context of "good musicians leaving". I may or may not be a good player myself, that's not really the point I'm trying to make. But a few months back I posted some clips of my album in the members clips section. 2 replies, even after a couple bumps over a few days, 2 replies total. It matters not to me if people hate my playing, the point here is I truly do not think anybody here really knows one way or another if it's indeed true that "all the good players have left. Cannot critique something you have not heard.

there is a lot to this... I certainly don't have the time to check out many, if more than just a mere handful/few of the folks here ...

and as to a future TGP get together, I'm afraid that at least personally for me, the experience has become so watered down by numbers overcoming any sense of real connection, etc., to a significant no. of folks, that a TGP get-together today has no real comparison to the appeal of the PRS Forum get-togethers of old (or TDP get-togethers, or other smaller-scale 'net board events I've attended over the past 15 yrs. or so including the very first H-C confab hosted by Mr. Friendly (Rich Knuckalls, RIP) in Staunton, VA).... maybe just my own subjective view, but unless it was right in the backyard, doubtful it would be an attraction.

OTOH if/when I'm in Colo. (October?) I'd always be happy to see Brian... ;):D

[ABKB]

there is a lot to this... I certainly don't have the time to check out many, if more than just a mere handful/few of the folks here ...



That's cool Jon. I understand folks are busy and this is a busy board. After 2 replies I wasnt going to burn my guitars or quit music ;) The basic point (which you got) was that to make a blanket statement of "all the good musicians are gone" just cannot be made. There was a reverbnation thread just a couple weeks ago which made it to I think, 3 pages. About 30 bands as a guess. I KNOW there's more than 30 bands on reverbnation represented in this thread alone. And I know it's hard to sometimes dig through all the muck of basement tapes and bad players, and it is time consuming. Cool. But I can tell you, on that reverbnation thread, I don't think I heard more than 1, maybe 2 basement tapes or bad players. There's some GREAT musicians on this board. If somebody thinks that all the good musicians are gone, they just have not looked very hard really.

[soulohio]

I didn't even know there was a CD/music clips section....please somebody point me to the Trance-Stoner-Rawk section (and related)...but heck I like it all....it would be good to have it categorized.

[84superchamp]

i just hope it wasn't something i said.

[Lucidology]

Originally Posted by ABKB http://img.thegearpage.net/board/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?p=9036648#post9036648)
I want to add as well, in the context of "good musicians leaving". I may or may not be a good player myself, that's not really the point I'm trying to make. But a few months back I posted some clips of my album in the members clips section. 2 replies, even after a couple bumps over a few days, 2 replies total.

It matters not to me if people hate my playing, the point here is I truly do not think anybody here really knows one way or another if it's indeed true that "all the good players have left. Cannot critique something you have not heard.


Have you commented on other people's clips ...?
If not, then why do you except people to comment on yours,,?
There's an unspoken etiquette, courtesy, that resides in the clip section ...
which is all about reciprocation ...

People who post their clips without, or rarely. posting comments under other people's clips,
even when the playing is outstanding ...
Shouldn't expect much of a response without having payed it forward in some manner previously ...

Comment sharing is an unspoken common courtesy prerequisite when it comes to sharing our playing in the clip section (IMHO)

[Dickie Fredericks]

Great point Brian.

I want to add as well, in the context of "good musicians leaving". I may or may not be a good player myself, that's not really the point I'm trying to make. But a few months back I posted some clips of my album in the members clips section. 2 replies, even after a couple bumps over a few days, 2 replies total. It matters not to me if people hate my playing, the point here is I truly do not think anybody here really knows one way or another if it's indeed true that "all the good players have left. Cannot critique something you have not heard.

The problem with the Members Clip section is just that it is undervalued. Same as anywhere else. Lot's of folks writing and performing good tunes in that section but alas, people (including the majority of the membership here) have been trained that if it isnt on MTV,VH1,CMT etc... or the radio, it isnt good or isnt worth the time.

I completely disagree and spend a good amount of my TGP time over in that very section just because I want to give everyone a fair shot. There are sooo many great players here. Id like to see more tunage and less "he is me playing over a backing" and hear more original stuff but that's just me. I'm looking for artists and not just guitar players. Still a great section of the forum and probably my favorite.

Oh yeah and... what Joseph said!

[cinimod8791]

Oh the nastalgia..................Back when I joined (six months ago) I had already asked all the questions that I wanted, knew everything about tone, and could already teach a few about thread participation.

Maybe for the old dogs around here the OP is absolutey true, but for me, I still enjoy and discover new stuff all the time.

One important lesson was that is was STUPID to sell my Maz JR. (don't worry, I have another on order)

[JDJ]

It's become Twitter, where every random thought that staggers into your brain merits a new thread.

That's an astute observation. Perhaps Tweedy can address that point!

:D

[mike walker]

I really think one has to be careful with the 'back in the day' mentality that it doesn't give off an aroma of 'been there, done that, we know don't we nudge nudge people really respected one another then etc etc' type deal.

For the most part i think it's almost always a bloated perspective, and, at a stroke, invalidates the many great and worthwhile posts that are made here in good faith, and IMHO, it's a little ungracious.

Ya don't like the look of a thread, don't go there.

Be the change you want to see.

Imagine being sat on a 6 hour flight with someone who's constant reply is... 'been there, done that' !!!??

The grace of a good parent is to make new the experiences of their children, even though those experiences are embedded in the parents' history.
__________________

[jtm622]

I really think one has to be careful with the 'back in the day' mentality that it doesn't give off an aroma of 'been there, done that, we know don't we nudge nudge people really respected one another then etc etc' type deal.

For the most part i think it's almost always a bloated perspective, and, at a stroke, invalidates the many great and worthwhile posts that are made here in good faith, and IMHO, it's a little ungracious.

Ya don't like the look of a thread, don't go there.

Be the change you want to see.

Imagine being sat on a 6 hour flight with someone who's constant reply is... 'been there, done that' !!!??

The grace of a good parent is to make new the experiences of their children, even though those experiences are embedded in the parents' history.
__________________

Folks just like to brag that they "came over on the Mayflower"... Even if it is subliminal and they don't even realize that they are playing the old "came over on the Mayflower" card - you can count on threads like this cropping up periodically... Usually the OP is somebody who feels a certain amount of ownership of TGP because of "length of service"... It's human nature that your dealing with here - such behavior and the responses to it are totally predictable...

:)

[sosomething]

I remember old-school TGP. It was cool.

This version is cool too.

Things evolve...

[Boris Bubbanov]

What happened to the build threads?

That's the one thing I would most like to see more of.

[campfirehero]

Well I came over from harmony-central after that 2.0 mess. I'm happy to be over here and I'm glad to read about guitar equipment and players.

[SlyStrat]

This is The Pub. Should be able to talk about anything.

[dodgeone]

This is The Pub. Should be able to talk about anything.
I agree with this sentiment for the most part.
It's all just so many ephemeral words....
Another web-site that i enjoy very much has what is essentially a section just like this. What they do, is only allow the thread count in that section to run up 200 threads....{a new one is started...the last one drops off the edge of a digital cliff...........see ya........}
What a giant waste of band-width to keep threads from the 'PUB' archived after a certain length of time.
Or just start a seperate thread section called the BARE KNUCKLES section.....anything goes....no moderation.....no kids/whimps/politically correct whiners with sensitivity issues.....
Personally, i think a section like that would be a fascinating look at the nature of mankind.:D

[mike walker]

... Usually the OP is somebody who feels a certain amount of ownership of TGP because of "length of service"...
:)

This is my feeling. And it takes a little more of an overview and not a little empathy to make the guy who's late to the 'party' feel like he's not just shat in your spacesuit.

Best

Mike

[Scott Peterson]

... Or just start a seperate thread section called the BARE KNUCKLES section.....anything goes....no moderation.....no kids/whimps/politically correct whiners with sensitivity issues.....
Personally, i think a section like that would be a fascinating look at the nature of mankind.:D

We did that on the PRS Forum and there are still hard feelings between certain folks to this day, over 10 years later.

If you really want that sort of cesspool, it's easy to find. Join any sports talk forum or read the uncensored YouTube comments. It's far less 'fascinating' as it is pathetic.

[megatonic]

Three more corner turns and she'll be back to normal.

[studiodunn]

I envy anyone who's life is so fulfilled that the addition of worthless volume, on an internet forum, has caused them to reminisce about the good old days.

I just don't go fishing for useless crap. I don't care about opinions and teh latest Pub entries. I don't let worthless and often negative post sway my train of thought.

This place is unsurpassed in knowledge on the net and is still 90% good information from helpful gear heads.
I for one find this place to be just as helpful and informative as the day I joined.


*steps off soapbox*

[megatonic]

I envy anyone who's life is so fulfilled that the addition of worthless volume, on an internet forum, has caused them to reminisce about the good old days.

I just don't go fishing for useless crap. I don't care about opinions and teh latest Pub entries. I don't let worthless and often negative post sway my train of thought.

This place is unsurpassed in knowledge on the net and is still 90% good information from helpful gear heads.
I for one find this place to be just as helpful and informative as the day I joined.


*steps off soapbox*

Nicely said.

[dodgeone]

We did that on the PRS Forum and there are still hard feelings between certain folks to this day, over 10 years later.

If you really want that sort of cesspool, it's easy to find. Join any sports talk forum or read the uncensored YouTube comments. It's far less 'fascinating' as it is pathetic.
First off, i was NOT advocating for a total site free-for-all.
Just a relaxing of the rules for the "PUB" area. Where men can be men....you know....like in a "PUB".
Otherwise, calling this section 'THE PUB' is a pretense. People DO talk Politics and Religion and other shit that starts fights in "PUBS". I love that. It's what makes life worth living. A bit of the old wild west.
And Hard feelings between who? A bunch of internet arm-chair warriors?
That is pretty sad.

[pmcqueen]

First off, i was NOT advocating for a total site free-for-all.
Just a relaxing of the rules for the "PUB" area. Where men can be men....you know....like in a "PUB".
Otherwise, calling this section 'THE PUB' is a pretense. People DO talk Politics and Religion and other shit that starts fights in "PUBS". I love that. It's what makes life worth living. A bit of the old wild west.
And Hard feelings between who? A bunch of internet arm-chair warriors?
That is pretty sad.

in a perfect world, I would totally agree with you... but the internet is a funny thing. people are complete and total assholes to each other under the veil of anonymity, and I'd be lying if I said I've never been butthurt by things that have been said to me on the net in places that weren't "governed" somehow.

I love light-hearted banter, I can dish it out and take it just as well.. but it gets much worse than that when you don't have to worry about the ramifications of what you say.

[dodgeone]

in a perfect world, I would totally agree with you... but the internet is a funny thing. people are complete and total assholes to each other under the veil of anonymity, and I'd be lying if I said I've never been butthurt by things that have been said to me on the net in places that weren't "governed" somehow.

I love light-hearted banter, I can dish it out and take it just as well.. but it gets much worse than that when you don't have to worry about the ramifications of what you say.
What can i say? I'm a New Yorker with a tuff skin....this stuff here is just a minor diversion....not my life. I know who my friends are. I made them before computers existed.

[rogwerks]

tgp crackz me up...

it'z my humor 4 da day...

cool?? nah, funny, yes...

OY vEy MirZ!

[Blue4Now]

+++++++++ :agree

me too

[zekmoe]

I like it here. Been here almost 7 years so not sure if that makes me an oldster or newbie.

[Jerry Shaw]

First off, i was NOT advocating for a total site free-for-all.
Just a relaxing of the rules for the "PUB" area. Where men can be men....you know....like in a "PUB".
Otherwise, calling this section 'THE PUB' is a pretense. People DO talk Politics and Religion and other shit that starts fights in "PUBS". I love that. It's what makes life worth living. A bit of the old wild west.
And Hard feelings between who? A bunch of internet arm-chair warriors?
That is pretty sad.

Pah'dnah, I don't think the admins want that $1,000 mirror behind the bar to get shot to pieces every time the hands come in from the round-up:D

Seriously, hard feelings couldn't be contained to just one area of TGP - It's bound to spill over outside of the Pub. IMO, TGP is great 'because' of the rules, not in spite of them.

[ABKB]

Have you commented on other people's clips ...?
If not, then why do you except people to comment on yours,,?
There's an unspoken etiquette, courtesy, that resides in the clip section ...
which is all about reciprocation ...

People who post their clips without, or rarely. posting comments under other people's clips,
even when the playing is outstanding ...
Shouldn't expect much of a response without having payed it forward in some manner previously ...

Comment sharing is an unspoken common courtesy prerequisite when it comes to sharing our playing in the clip section (IMHO)

Joseph, I have. Though I will be honest in that I need to do more of it and it's been a while since I have. Though I am not as confident as you are in any reciprocal value (skeptic at heart). But I'm always willing to admit when I'm wrong.

[Lucidology]

Joseph, I have. Though I will be honest in that I need to do more of it and it's been a while since I have. Though I am not as confident as you are in any reciprocal value (skeptic at heart). But I'm always willing to admit when I'm wrong.

Hey ABKB... I just started a thread using your response in the Sound Hound section ...
Hope you don't mine... check it out & join in...

No problem ... fact is, you brought up something that's really worth discussing ...:D

[Jon C]

That's cool Jon. I understand folks are busy and this is a busy board. After 2 replies I wasnt going to burn my guitars or quit music ;) The basic point (which you got) was that to make a blanket statement of "all the good musicians are gone" just cannot be made.


agree completely with that & hope that my post didn't seem to say otherwise... ;)

[Jon C]

We did that on the PRS Forum and there are still hard feelings between certain folks to this day, over 10 years later.

If you really want that sort of cesspool, it's easy to find. Join any sports talk forum or read the uncensored YouTube comments. It's far less 'fascinating' as it is pathetic.

I am snickering because I agree with you 100% ... ;)

[daddyo]

I think maybe I'm down about a bunch of things, economy sucks, my job seems week to week, kids have grown up, heroes of the TGP can't afford new Kolls and Stevens every week, guys bagging on Jimi. Overall, this place is still exceedingly cool. Just hands off Jimi . . . .

[ABKB]

Hey ABKB... I just started a thread using your response in the Sound Hound section ...
Hope you don't mine... check it out & join in...

No problem ... fact is, you brought up something that's really worth discussing ...:D

Not at all Joseph (BTW, name is Andrew), I will check it out.

agree completely with that & hope that my post didn't seem to say otherwise... ;)

Did not seem to at all Jon, that's why I said "you got it". Thanks man :beer

[bashlin]

i really just come here for the latest news..:huh

[VintageKnob]

Personally, i think a section like that would be a fascinating look at the nature of mankind.:D

Yeah, it's called 4Chan

I won't link directly to it, but I'll let you read about it on the wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4chan

uh, yea...


- D

[MudPies]

4chan could destroy TGP and many of the TGPers who frequent TGP. The /b/ board people are insane.

[pmcqueen]

4chan could destroy TGP and many of the TGPers who frequent TGP. The /b/ board people are insane.

it's ironic because btards, who are arguably the best internet warriors, are also the most painfully awkward people to be around in the real world. no offense, btards.

trust me, I know. I roomed with one.. and he had friends over and they would seriously sit around on /b/ for hours on end. they like anime pornography and masturbating in the bathroom at random, inappropriate times.. and when they're done, they're quick to let you know that they just rubbed one out and it got on your toothbrush. great.

[MudPies]

it's ironic because btards, who are arguably the best internet warriors, are also the most painfully awkward people to be around in the real world. no offense, btards.

trust me, I know. I roomed with one.. and he had friends over and they would seriously sit around on /b/ for hours on end. they like anime pornography and masturbating in the bathroom at random, inappropriate times.. and when they're done, they're quick to let you know that they just rubbed one out and it got on your toothbrush. great.
http://iamadick.***********.com/storage/family_guy_thats_nasty1.jpg?__***********_CACHEVER SION=1265297520664

[JDJ]

What happened to the build threads?

That's the one thing I would most like to see more of.

I'm gearing up to build an amp soon. I'll post photos of the process.

[splatt]

What can i say? I'm a New Yorker with a tuff skin....this stuff here is just a minor diversion....not my life. I know who my friends are. I made them before computers existed.
hmmm.
i get that; really, i do.
and.....
i think i know who my friends are, too,
but have made at least a few lifelong friends, met on the wide internet.
no sh•t!
including here, on TGP.

dt / spltrcl

a ps, for the post-counters:
my post-count is off, undershot by roughly 11,000 more posts,
before they got wiped-out in an accident to which i was at least party.

[bluesjuke]

I recall them and will credit you appropriately.

You made it through alive though.

[aleclee]

You might find this of interest: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=774673
all of the positives the OP cites can still be found easily.

I find a lot of talent on this board and is the reason I return to it.
I've learned a lot and had assumptions about gear corrected.
The nature of a network is that you have to be selective and learn how to find the things of interest and value to yourself.
I don't care if 500 Bikini companion threads came through, I just simply don't care and know that I can find what I'm looking for here based upon my first sentence in this reply.

I've posted this in reply to similar threads like this before:
There's a "New Posts" link on the submenu/nav for the board. The link is the following, which executes a query with an ID returned:
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/search.php?do=getnew
..given all the crap people feel has been infiltrating or cropping up with frequency in the forums, I think a new "DO"option is the following:
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/search.php?do=getnewNOPUB

Benefits -
The site could filter out a lot of the noise for people like the OP who wish to find more gear related info.
The admins would have less to do as your steering users to a new doorway or at least providing a different option or query.

As for the content found in reply to gear related threads, that's the nature of the beast as well. I don't think I've ever seen a forum without this going on.

[Scott Auld]

Major, MAJOR Kudos to Alec for being able to find a way to put cram's suggestion into place.

Outstanding work, sir.

[RocksOff]

"Kids today don't know how to drive!"
"You kids today with your Dan Fogelberg and your Rock n Roll!"
"In MY day..."
"...and I had to carry my sister on my back through 3 feet of snow..."
"using a quill that you had to dip in ink made us a lot more thankful that there were birds with big feathers..."

Yesterday,
all my troubles seemed so far away.
But now it seems as though they're here stay.

TGP!!!!!!! Now with Prune Juice!

[ABKB]

Though I had to "lol" reading RocksOff post, and for the most part do agree with what his point was, I would not have posted it. And that's not a reflection on you RocksOff or in any way meant to say it was a bad post, you have every right to say it, I'm just saying for ME, I would not have. But folks, please bear this in mind (and I'm not just saying it to you RocksOff, but to everybody new or relatively new), some of these guys who have been around forever on this board represent a TON of knowledge and wisdom and experience. Whatever experience you are going to have in this rotton to the core biz, they have already been there countless times. Whatever pickup you are thinking to put in your pointy headstock axe shredder, they probably already tried it in their 62 Tele. Sure, some are rough around the edges and even cranky, and these kinds of threads will and do pop up on a regular basis. Let em at it. In 5-10 years you will probably post one too if you hang around here enough. Again, not saying anything to anyone here, just want to try and impart some perspective is all.
Peace!

Andrew

[RocksOff]

Indeed. I'm not saying that anyone's point isn't valid. I'm just saying that curmudgeonry for it's own sake is funny. I'm not exactly a spring chicken myself, though I'm not a geezer (yet). I've got quite a bit of touring under me belt, and had probably as much gear as anyone around. I was just making a little comment about the 'seniority' attitude and how it can skew one's view away from the equally valid comments, questions, and concerns of the less travelled and less experienced. There are pearls to be gleaned in both directions.

[lhallam]

You might find this of interest: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=774673

Gotta luv IT guys.

[lhallam]

First off, i was NOT advocating for a total site free-for-all.
Just a relaxing of the rules for the "PUB" area. Where men can be men....you know....like in a "PUB".
Otherwise, calling this section 'THE PUB' is a pretense. People DO talk Politics and Religion and other shit that starts fights in "PUBS". I love that. It's what makes life worth living. A bit of the old wild west.
And Hard feelings between who? A bunch of internet arm-chair warriors?
That is pretty sad.

I lived in NYC and was a kid in NJ, busting chops is OK among friends. All bets are off when you start in on a stranger.

Trust me, Scott and Brian have plenty of experience and they know what they want of their environment and how to achieve it.

It seems there are a few thousand of us who agree with their tenants.

We bust our asses all day long, deal with family matters and life in general. This is a place to chill with folks who employ goodwill whether we agree or not on issues. The Mods intend to keep it that way.

[mike walker]

Indeed. I'm not saying that anyone's point isn't valid. I'm just saying that curmudgeonry for it's own sake is funny. I'm not exactly a spring chicken myself, though I'm not a geezer (yet). I've got quite a bit of touring under me belt, and had probably as much gear as anyone around. I was just making a little comment about the 'seniority' attitude and how it can skew one's view away from the equally valid comments, questions, and concerns of the less travelled and less experienced. There are pearls to be gleaned in both directions.

I mean, this is how it is, isn't?

The willingness to learn from both?

Like i said, sit on a plane, for 6 hours with a 'been there done that ' guy.

The ability to STFU and listen is ageless.

[RocksOff]

I mean, this is how it is, isn't?

The willingness to learn from both?

Like i said, sit on a plane, for 6 hours with a 'been there done that ' guy.

The ability to STFU and listen is ageless.

But rare! :)
By the way, how'd you like that Man City / Blackburn game? I was really hoping for a win for the Man City fellows. Vieira did a decent job, though.

[mike walker]

Vintage Vieira.

But i think Paul Robinson got the draw for Rovers. Great goal keeping.

Both Manc teams were frustrating yesterday.

Giving away a 3-1 lead in the dying minutes. GRRRRRRRRR!!!!!:Devil

[mike walker]

The drugs thread is just one of the many that keeps me on board here.

[BryanMatthews]

I wasnt aware Tag is banned again, what has he done now ?

[Tom Gross]

I wasnt aware Tag is banned again, what has he done now ?
Tag's totally gone, and as to talking about why:
1. The mods don't talk about that stuff
2. It's bad form for us to talk about someone who's not here to provide their input.

[RSRD]

I was around during those so called good years and found both Tag and Matte and others to be rather annoying and egotistical. They had a few good points covered in loads of "look at me" and "My thoughts are more important than yours" threads. Just my opinion of course.

It was definitely more click-ish as well.

The biggest downside of todays GP is that you have to weed thru so many threads to get to what you want. But there was ALWAYS someone around who posted inane 'whats your favorite color' threads.

[splatt]

Major, MAJOR Kudos to Alec for being able to find a way to put cram's suggestion into place.

Outstanding work, sir.
agreed.
great suggestion, too, from cram!
thanks, guys.
dt / spltrcl

[Irreverent]

I haven't been here as long as some, but there is still a tremendous volume of excellent information to be had on TGP. And there are numerous kind, generous, and supremely talented musicians (such as David Torn, just above) who are gracious enough to share their talent and knowledge with the rest of us.

No doubt, compared to earlier days, there has been a relative dilution of good information, but there is still a bounty of good stuff to be gleaned.

And if you don't like the psychosocialgunloversvsgunhatersmywiferanoffwithmy girlfriendthenmydogdiedwhatbeerareyoudrinkingmycar isthecoolest threads, just avoid the Pub.

My sincere and heartfelt thanks to all the great musicians here whose ongoing contributions have profoundly improved my playing, enjoyment, and understanding of the guitar!

Peace.

[splatt]

I haven't been here as long as some, but there is still a tremendous volume of excellent information to be had on TGP. And there are numerous kind, generous, and supremely talented musicians who are gracious enough to share their talent and knowledge with the rest of us.

thanks, irrev,
for not pejoratively mentioning my "egotism" & so-called "desire for attention", here;
i have a tough skin, but always find that stuff to be kinda strange (& only moderately hurtful), personally.

fwiw:
i've noticed that, quietly & w/o any fanfare,
my friend matte henderson has been posting a bit, again,
which oughta offer some folks added guitaristic value, here.

dt / spltrcl

[guzman]

nobody's keeping you here, dear OP.

[daddyo]

thanks, irrev,
for not pejoratively mentioning my "egotism" & so-called "desire for attention", here;
i have a tough skin, but always find that stuff to be kinda strange (& only moderately hurtful), personally.

fwiw:
i've noticed that, quietly & w/o any fanfare,
my friend matte henderson has been posting a bit, again,
which oughta offer some folks added guitaristic value, here.

dt / spltrcl
Splatt
I have never found you or any of the other pros who post here anything but gracious, helpful, and informative. You guys offer insight into things non-pros can only guess at.

[daddyo]

nobody's keeping you here, dear OP.
Thanks, Guzman. Thanks for your thoughtful and well reasoned comment. Did you spend a lot of time on it?

[MudPies]

I'm here for the circle jerk.

;)

[soulohio]

bwjajajajaja^

[Blindspot]

I'm here for the free snacks.

[A-Bone]

Wait, there are snacks? Where have I been?

[Jazz2Punk]

I'm a newbie and have really enjoyed my time here so far!

I've been turned on to some great players, scored some great gear, found an amazing teacher in Chuck D'aloia and even made a few 'real life' friends.

What more can one ask for from an internet forum? I've definitely gotten my money's worth that's for sure! :aok

[mike walker]

I'm a newbie and have really enjoyed my time here so far!

I've been turned on to some great players, scored some great gear, found an amazing teacher in Chuck D'aloia and even made a few 'real life' friends.

What more can one ask for from an internet forum? I've definitely gotten my money's worth that's for sure! :aok

I find it incredible that different folks have their own positive or negative experiences here.

Who'd have thought it?

[yodude]

mods

[jtm622]

I haven't been here as long as some, but there is still a tremendous volume of excellent information to be had on TGP. And there are numerous kind, generous, and supremely talented musicians (such as David Torn, just above) who are gracious enough to share their talent and knowledge with the rest of us.

In the case of the "supremely talented musicians" that you reference, "EGO" is NOT a pejorative term, and I truly doubt that any one of them finds it necessary to come here for the precious little "ego stroking" that is available at TGP...
The fact is: Without the input of "certifiable" pros such as Torn, Easton, Matte, Tomo, the many Nashville "Cats", the many world class amp builders, the many world class luthiers & guitar manufacturers - plus many, many others who are extremely knowledgeable (but may have less "celebrity") - Well, TGP would not be what it is today... PERIOD...

Think about it... Where else in the world can one go to interact with so many TRUE professionals and benefit from the valuable knowledge that they've gleaned through decades of personal experience... In the not-too-distant past, you had to buy magazines such as "Guitar Player" to hear what these guys had to say, but with TGP, you can interact with them ONE ON ONE...

IMO, for every one of those guys that leaves - the whole place inches just a little bit closer to becoming just one giant "Pub"...

[MRCHILL4]

Everything you said except for the bikini threads. I disagree with you on that one.

[buddaman71]

This is a guitar-nerd site. Dozens, if not hundreds, of "custom" builders popped up over the last decade. It's just the minutiae of slightly changed versions of 70 year old designs being passionately debated ad nauseum. Same questions asked over and over and over....and answered over and over and over.

Familiarity breeds contempt. It is what it is.

[hahavishnu]

I miss the old TGP. If you're new, I'm not trying to start a fight. But when I first joined, there was so much new stuff every day. Guys like Matte would promo some new cool guitar several times a month. Same with amps. Discussions could get heated but they always seemed informative. I learned about wet rigs and attenuators. I learned about lots of cool pedals. I learned about a cool new player every month. Tag was alway putting his money where his mouth was. Now Tag is banned until Atlantis rises again and what we mostly have is put down threads aimed at everyone from Zep to Hendrix. That and silly stuff like booger flinging and bikini threads.

Pile on:hide2
folks nowadays are banned for making lame jokes....the joke police lurk in here.....

[Bluedawg]

Dang

I missed the booger thread.


:o

[Fred Farkus]

I miss the old TGP. If you're new, I'm not trying to start a fight. But when I first joined, there was so much new stuff every day. Guys like Matte would promo some new cool guitar several times a month. Same with amps. Discussions could get heated but they always seemed informative. I learned about wet rigs and attenuators. I learned about lots of cool pedals. I learned about a cool new player every month. Tag was alway putting his money where his mouth was. Now Tag is banned until Atlantis rises again and what we mostly have is put down threads aimed at everyone from Zep to Hendrix. That and silly stuff like booger flinging and bikini threads.

Pile on:hide2

You've already learned everything there is to learn here, so it's stale to you anymore. Happens at every forum. OTOH there's a bunch of new folks learning all this stuff for the first time. Cycle of life...

[57special]

Not a year has passed since i've joined TGP that there hasn't been a "This place is going downhill!" thread.

[djem]

Not a year has passed since i've joined TGP that there hasn't been a "This place is going downhill!" thread.

Wait till 2012. Changes gonna come real soon then.....

:worried

[Analog Delay]

The post count means nothing to me. It's not like you get a free piece of gear after a certain number or something.

Uh oh. Somebody must be missing an ES-335, then. Right around my 1,000th post, a box showed up with a pretty nice Gibson in it.

I thought it was because I reached a thousand.

[bluesjuke]

To each his own. I, for one, think the booger-flinging thread is the best thing I've ever seen on TGP.



But as soon as one lands on someone's prize PRS the fun is over.

..unless relics fall out of favor and are replaced by guitars that are "boogered".

[big mike]

folks nowadays are banned for making lame jokes....the joke police lurk in here.....

No one has ever been banned for a lame joke unless it was outright racist.

Hardly ever is someone given the permanent ziggy for one instance / issue.
Infraction points accrue. So despite what people say it's generally that they've broken multiple rules, multiple times to get tossed out.

I recommend all read the new clear and concise rules
Link at the bottom of every page.

[Roadeye]

I've only been on it for a couple years so I don't know about the old days, but it sure gets lame when people say stuff like -

"Who is the best QB, NO STATS".

"Best" is something that can be tangibly measured.
"Favorite" might be more appropriate if you want opinion.

And also, what's up with closing innocent threads like my Ben "No Means Yes" Roethlisberger thread. Wasn't like I was making a joke about IT, just HIM. And that''s a BIG difference.

But in the end, I guess since we don't OWN TGP, the mods can do what they like, and we just have to learn to play by the rules.

[Jahn]

I miss the old TGP. If you're new, I'm not trying to start a fight. But when I first joined, there was so much new stuff every day. Guys like Matte would promo some new cool guitar several times a month. Same with amps. Discussions could get heated but they always seemed informative. I learned about wet rigs and attenuators. I learned about lots of cool pedals. I learned about a cool new player every month. Tag was alway putting his money where his mouth was. Now Tag is banned until Atlantis rises again and what we mostly have is put down threads aimed at everyone from Zep to Hendrix. That and silly stuff like booger flinging and bikini threads.

Pile on:hide2

Dang, I missed the booger flinging thread?:o

Anyhow it really depends on what you came with and how long your stay has been. This could be some TGPer's first day here, and daddyO might be their Matte, who knows.

[Flyin' Brian]

I've only been on it for a couple years so I don't know about the old days, but it sure gets lame when people say stuff like -

"Who is the best QB, NO STATS".

"Best" is something that can be tangibly measured.
"Favorite" might be more appropriate if you want opinion.

Jus sayin'
The word "best" is perhaps the most overused and misused word in the whole forum.

[Jahn]

I recommend all read the new clear and concise rules
Link at the bottom of every page.

Hmm, never read this one - neato:

11. You wrote it, we own it. If you get booted or are unhappy with us, don’t ask us to delete your account or posts. You joined and posted on your own and we’re too busy to delete your account or posts just because you don’t want to be married to us anymore. We get custody after the divorce.

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

There is still boatloads of good info on the Gear Page, you just have to pick threads titles that spark your interest and pass over the rest .... it's not that hard to do. Same thing goes with forums, it's not rocket science. :dunno

From what I've seen, the guitars, amps and effects forums are still pretty decent and to the point. The pub is the only wild card where any kind of subject can be posted, and like I said, skip over the thread titles that don't interest you, or better yet, use the ignore list for people who tend to tick you off. :red

[jj113054]

If it ain't broke don't fix it.
There are many tools in the toolbox. Only take the ones you need.
Put them back intact & clean when you are finished.

[shane88]

Making a Fender sound like a Marshall, and making a Marshall sound like a Fender has been discussed. There's nothing left to talk about.
hot ladies/doods
cars
watches
booteek booze
limited ed designer 1 off custom reliked shoelaces

[bluesjuke]

be the change you want to see


Best post of thread award!

[jyantzer]

Well I love this place, mostly because I respect and appreciate competent passion and think Brian and Scott epitomize just that. They and the mods are aces in my book, run a square joint open to all, and deal with all fairly and openly. You know where you stand. That allows 60K+ people to express themselves in incredibly interesting ways. I've been around since the PRS Forum days, but mostly as a lurker. In that time I've received many gifts from the community and find no distinction between then and now. There are many internet presences of narrow interest focus, comprised of small communities of like-minded people with a Cheers like atmosphere. Great! Have at it. But I like this place because, to me, it represents life's rich pageant to it's fullest. Generally (to me at least), musicians and music minded people are creative, interesting people, live interesting lives and have the best stories to tell. I feel privileged to eavesdrop. And if I don't like it, I move on to the next thread, subject area etc.--there are gems around every corner.

[cruisemates]

I just found this site two weeks ago, and I am really, reallly sorry I did not find it years ago ( not sure why ). I think it is the best music forum I have found to date.

Now - I also run a forum of similar size on a Travel topic. We started in 1999. Things are tired in our place as well.

IT IS THE ECONOMY - far too many people out there are really hurting. It's very hard for me to continue talking about my personal topic in this economy, but it is my job.

TGP is a GREAT forum. I admire the civility of this place a great deal. You have no idea how hard it is to foster this kind of mutual respect between people on the Internet.

All forums now face competition from Facebook (which I hate) and Twitter (which I hate). But you can only find birds of a feather in a forum like this - nothing can replace it. Things will get better again, it is just a matter of time and your good attitude helps.

[teleclem]

I You have no idea how hard it is to foster this kind of mutual respect between people on the Internet.


I second that. Compared to some other forums on the net, tgp is really great. There's so much information (fine, sometimes you have to sift through posts - it's not unique to tgp though).

Gear can be very expensive and confusing. TGP helps. (Well, even with all the purchases I've made because of this site, I think I've saved some $ by knowing what to avoid and seeing some great user feedback on certain stuff)

[Hwoltage]

To each his own. I, for one, think the booger-flinging thread is the best thing I've ever seen on TGP.

Wait a minute. There is actually a booger-flinging thread? Wow..

Yeah, I would say it's turned a corner.

[Dickie Fredericks]

I like it here. Sure, there is always something we could complain about or whatever.

Ive never been to Harmony Central but yesterday I checked it out since it gets so much bad press around here.

Interesting to me is as the forum loaded I knew most of the names since they are all here too.

You cant blame it all on HC coming here because frankly, its pretty much the same clientele.

So what does that say about this place? I dont know. I like it here and not there.

[tonedaddy]

Ways to fight TGP boredom or focusing on the old TGP:

If you've reached the point you think you're an expert and you're not learning anything here, spend time teaching others what you know.
Or for that matter, what you don't know. You might be surprised what you'll have to learn, too.
Nothing will ever make you learn/understand a subject as well as prepping to teach others.
And remember this...someone who likely thought your first questions on a forum were mundane or ridiculous still took the time to teach you.
Pass it on.

If you don't want to teach others, try building gear.
Take on an amp building project.
Try building an effect pedal.
Wind a pickup.
Put together a partscaster.
Learn how to do guitar setups and fretwork.

If you've answered as many "What's the best OD pedal?" questions you can stand, venture into a forum you don't spend much time in.
Who knows, your next gig might be as a bass player.


And if all of that fails, stop visiting the Emporium, stay off TGP for about 6 months, and just practice/play.
You might come back to TGP realizing you don't really need any latest/greatest
new gear anymore, and you enjoy making music more than reading/talking about gear.

[tripp2k]

^ Excellent counsel.

[Chops]

It's pretty much the same. It's just that you are getting older and busier and have better things to do with your time now.

[Leonc]

Great post tonedaddy!

When I got bored, I decided to learn a bit about building amps. I'm far from an expert but it's really been a blast. It's very rewarding to take an idea that's in your head and design and build it. You get a real sense of accomplishment.

[Cap'n Fingers]

TGP =
http://www.artoftom.com/custom/2001.jpg

I've been hooked since I found this place. Current posts may reflect more chaff than wheat but everything is cyclical. There is so much intelligent material in the archived posts it's mind boggling.

Has TGP turned a corner or jumped a shark? It's just a matter of perception, expectation and acceptance. We is what we is. Tomorrow it's bound to be different.

BTW: I'm still on the ape side of this thing.

[stratzrus]

Discussions could get heated but they always seemed informative. I learned about wet rigs and attenuators. I learned about lots of cool pedals. I learned about a cool new player every month. Tag was alway putting his money where his mouth was. Now Tag is banned until Atlantis rises again and what we mostly have is put down threads aimed at everyone from Zep to Hendrix. That and silly stuff like booger flinging and bikini threads.
The Pub can be pretty juvenile but the amp and guitar threads are still pretty informative. Some of the more knowledgable people have left or don't post as much.

But Matte still posts, and so does Splatt. I've seen posts by builders like John Suhr and Steve Fryette so there are many people still around who we are lucky to be able to interact with on a public forum. All things considered, it's still the best game in town.

Of course it's not like it was years ago but what is?

[phillygtr]

OK, who farted?

[TommyMambo]

With the exception of the baiters ("I don't get ____") and the needy (recommend me some ________") TGP is still one of my favorite sites.

I must admit that I have been spending more time on FB as it is better suiting my needs but TGP still has its place.

[The Golden Boy]

"... there I was... no shit..."

[Fred Farkus]

With the exception of the baiters ("I don't get ____") and the needy (recommend me some ________") TGP is still one of my favorite sites.

The ones I find the funniest are the "Vs." threads:

"Please compare/contrast the xyzDetonator vs. the S3000WuTangClan with the "Momboese" mods. Terse sentences in monosyllabic tone-ese only, please. Perform comparison at 4:30 EST in 70% humidity with temperature between 70-80 deg F only. Also report guitar/pickups/string-gauge, cable length and oxygen content. Do not respond to this thread if you have not satisfied these exact conditions as I cannot be bothered to spend my time considering too many variables as I need this for a gig in two days..."

[XKnight]

I can honestly say that I learn something new everyday I'm on TGP.

[Ultron]

I've been spending a lot of time on gearslutz lately...there are some great threads there on recording guitar, with Michael Wagoner contributing some great tips/insight. The recording forum is a little weak here....which surprises me.

[bluesjuke]

Where you may find TGP weak in some areas there's no denying that it is much stronger in most other areas.

[Brian Scherzer]

I often wish for my youth back, but that won't happen. Whatever you miss on TGP can easily be remedied by YOU bringing it back. At least you then have a chance of being part of change for the better.

[stratzrus]

Whatever you miss on TGP can easily be remedied by YOU bringing it back. For the win.