Modeling "outsiders"

[desdinova]

We talk here daily about the most popular modeling devices, but it seems there are quite a few which don't enjoy that much popularity.

I'm not talking about, say, the Tonelabs, since those are older designs. How about the Zoom G9tt or the Rocktron Utopia (or, indeed, the Prophesy II? These are rather new releases. Why aren't more people using them, I wonder? I can't believe they are total failures and I'd expect possibly the same popularity as, say, Digitech or Vox products.

[Thorti]

I owned a Utopia G300 for 20 days this year, sounded "okay", but the onboard tuner is horrible. So I returned it. The idea was to record with it at home (the speaker sim is NOT as good as rocktron tells you!) and use it in front of my tupe amp, control everything via midi and use the onboard wah. So just guitar, Utopia and amplifier on stage. Now I'm back to guitar, wahwah, box of rock, amplifier, midiboard and g-major.

[huutevar]

Don't forget about the Adrenalinn III! That's a real outsider in my book.

[Gasp100]

If they could tighten up Peavey Revalver and possibly create some type of dedicated hardware interface around it I think that product would kill... It allows IR's, you can really dig into the components and settings GRAPHICALLY which is wild and I'll tell you what -- somehow or another some of those sims just nail that tube character better than anything else I have tried.
I can't figure out how to get 11 Rack to act as just an audio interface to allow me to use software based amp sims right now... kind of annoying.

[OverDriven]

If they could tighten up Peavey Revalver and possibly create some type of dedicated hardware interface around it I think that product would kill... It allows IR's, you can really dig into the components and settings GRAPHICALLY which is wild and I'll tell you what -- somehow or another some of those sims just nail that tube character better than anything else I have tried.

Yep. I totally agree. Revalver III is among the best tube sims out there, and certainly more realistic than any of the current modeling hardware.

[V-Type]

Don't forget about the Adrenalinn III! That's a real outsider in my book.
I use my cousins Adrenalinn II a lot for quick tracking and head phone inspirations.
The sync'd effects and smart beats sound great everytime I noodle with her.
Dont let folks fool you it can model amps quite well and imo easily rivals the upper end (L6)XT and (Boss)GT processing at times.

[ChurchChong]

Don't forget about the Adrenalinn III! That's a real outsider in my book.

Yep. I've got a scxd, gdec 30 and various tube amps but I use the AIII 95% of the time. The amp models are great and so is just about everything else.

[bmi]

I had an Adrenalinn III for testing and i remember a really great twin sound.
The GSP1101 for the price is a good machine. Not tested the mustbebeta firmware but it seems to improve a lot the tone.

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[sahhas]

i was using a zoom g2 for the last 5 yrs (along w/ my digitech rp150).
i think it's a decent small box.
i liked that it has delay options in 3 separate sections, so if you don't have extra delay pedals you can get some whacky delay stuff going.
i like the ring mod also for whacky stuff, and the wahs are decent too (they remind me of the sound that buckethead gets).

i really liked the tuner in it, i think its way better than the rp150.
don't like that the expression pedal for it, has to be zoom thing that had built in cord, which in my old setup, didn't reach from table to floor.

that's why i use the rp150-can just use passive volume for whammy/wah/volume....but i thought the zoom was decent, don't know how it compares to the other more popular things, since it is 5 yrs old now....

[TieDyedDevil]

Don't forget about the Adrenalinn III! That's a real outsider in my book.

The only reason I hang onto my A3 is because the beat-synced effects and the `80s drum machine are fun to play with once in a while. I think it's really weak as a modeler.

[desdinova]

From what I've heard, the Adrenalinn is something of a specialized effects processor... it's beat-synced effects are awesome though.

Funny thing: just returned from practice with a new band. I was in a hurry and grabbed a cheap VH-styled partcaster I have plus my Zoom G1next pedal to go. And the studio had only a Marshall Valvestate head with 4X12" cabinet for me. Nevertheless, my 2-3 carefully personalized Zoom presets sounded great in the context of a hard rock band. We are talking a 40 euro modeling pedal "for kids" here... :D

[Elric]

If they could tighten up Peavey Revalver and possibly create some type of dedicated hardware interface around it I think that product would kill... It allows IR's, you can really dig into the components and settings GRAPHICALLY which is wild and I'll tell you what -- somehow or another some of those sims just nail that tube character better than anything else I have tried.
I can't figure out how to get 11 Rack to act as just an audio interface to allow me to use software based amp sims right now... kind of annoying.
+1 on Revalver. I'm a pretty big advocate of that one, as well. It's design is really brilliant in a lot of ways. I love how it has head models and then decoupled preamp/power amp models for each one. Makes it a great tool for recording an external preamp direct for example, whereas everything else fails in this regard.

I think Peavey has big long-term plans for it but I think they need to resource it properly or they won't be able to justify seeing the long term vision all the way through... (I still get the feeling that the guy who ran Alien Connections is still the only person who really understands it's technical details @ Peavey).

As for Rocktron, I think they were smart to position their stuff the way they did... they have their loyal fan base and they've never advertised their stuff as modelers, they've been marketed as preamps/fx units and as such tend to be judged on their own merits by users. That's limited them to a niche but I think it may have also helped them not get lost in the "me too" mix in the consumer's mind during the post POD boom. I remember thinking the Prophesy looked like an incredibly sexy product when it was introduced.

[Scott Peterson]

I had an Adrenalinn I, II and III. Love the beat synced effects. Modeling was... meh. Great songwriting tool - those effects are outstanding, I've yet found another piece that does what that does.

The Rocktron Prophesy isn't modeling, so that removes it from this discussion IMHO. I'm not an personal experience with the Utopia line from them though, so cannot comment.

One I'd add to the mix is the Korg Ampworks. I have one of these little boxes -still - and it is stupid fun. "Good" tone? No. Fun tone? Yea, in a cheese box silly way.

[rsm]

+1 on the preamps with speaker emulation.

I still dig my Tech 21 PSA 1.1 and Marshall JMP-1. I used ADA gear (MP-1, MP-2, MB-1, and power amps, cabs) for many years back in the day.


Based on the OP, this isn't really an outsider...but I "downgraded" to a Tonelab tabletop (the original blue) version. Works great for me!

[mattball826]

i have these units still.

g92tt- awesome? could have been. several things good and some bad. modeling preamp algorithms were though to be "over done" excessive gain. ex: sound like on 10 when gain is only on 2. most of this with high gain amp model. what user did not know, was to use eq proper to cut the gain. i buy dvd training from other company that explain how this works better. most user not realise eq was adding large amt of gain to preamp model.

on the plus side: g92tt effects are outstanding and imo clarity of the effects, pitch tracking is superior to other top name multieffect in the same price category. editor is good (weird to copy/paste presets). routing options are good. zoom nr is decent. energizer and accelerator function can take the preamp model from warm to sizzle to bite. bad because you can't store those settings. at least that is what most user complain about. cabinet emulation not the best on zoom units.

utopia- sleeper pedal. for rocktron fans. it is multieffect with a few preamp models. none specific to make/model type. this is partial turn off for some. rocktron effect set is like chameleon rack unit or voodu valve. standard in utopia. amazing depth and clarity effects. effects are stereo with pan and selection for l and r ch. best nr imo of any multieffect pedal in price range. rocktron cabinet emulation is very good. take while to get used to how parameter interact. g100 simple 3 fsw. g200 and 300 have more fsw and other options.

yamaha magic stomp- just awesome for its day.

johnson j station- best budget desktop modeling imo. experiment with daw and cab ir. you see this sleeper awaken!

vox tonelab- i like these too. very basic user interface. decent amp model from clean to moderate gain. not aggressive enough for high gain. limited routing option.

i have few others too. some like gnx have on board recording. digitech also add control assignments to those. very good routing options. can run stereo xlr and stereo 1/4 out at same time. both sides can have speaker compensation on or off. depend how user set up.

prophesy is older system but still regards for it by many players. outstanding effects like all rocktron gear, nice warm preamp (unspecified modeling). this unit, johnson jm150 and line 6 axys, were first modeling gear i own. i have older ones that mostly digital multieffect with no model preamp part.

[desdinova]

yamaha magic stomp- just awesome for its day.


Had one of those, still regret selling it (to a friend of mine who is a Holdsworth fan). Still can replicate exactly the multi-tap delay sounds I got out of this for a recording...

[mattball826]

Had one of those, still regret selling it (to a friend of mine who is a Holdsworth fan). Still can replicate exactly the multi-tap delay sounds I got out of this for a recording...

you can't have mine!!

another pedal i sold and regretted was mint condition rp-7. early generation pedal with tubes in it. sound was great on that too.

[stratoskier]

I'm still using a Boss GS-10 desktop modeler. I think me and Journo are the only ones around here who use them. I love this thing -- pleased with its sounds and versatility, and also like its form factor (compact size with lots of instant access knobs).

[_pete_]

The Hughes & Kettner Zentera was a great amp and a killer modeler. It sounded as good as the amps it modeled and had all the feel also.
I had mine for over 5 years and gigged it a lot. I always had compliments on how good it sounded. It only had 16 or 17 models and a few effects but they were all very good. I wish the chorus in my GSP1101 was half as good as that Zentera's chorus.

This is a pic from a gig a few years ago:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h247/pete2112/My%20Guitars/DSCN1810.jpg

Here's a snip from the email I got back from the guy who bought my zentera head:
Pete,

I got the amp on Monday, checked it over but didnt get a chance to plug in until today.

I just got two words- holy f'in shit!

I am blown away. I dont have a cabinet so I took an old peavy deuce 2x12 combo I have since about 1976 that hasnt been powered on since about 1985 and hooked the speakers up to the zentera. I dont know how it will sound with a real cabinet, but it sure sounds great with those old speakers. It did sound really good at low volumes, but I had it kinda cranked anyway, and was kneeling in front of it for an hour to play with the presets and settings. My ears are ringing and my knees hurt, but I'd still be there now if my kids didnt have to eat!

[firebrand]

I still kick around with a Tonelab SE. Hands down it has the best "feel" for any modeling pedal I have played. It doesn't have a "scooped metal" tone, which is fine. I have yet to find a pedal board that I can dig into my strings using a lighter gain tone and have it match the TLSE. My other rig is a Black Pearl 30 112 with a Rockbox Boiling Point.

[bmi]

The only reason I hang onto my A3 is because the beat-synced effects and the `80s drum machine are fun to play with once in a while. I think it's really weak as a modeler.
Not so bad.

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[Elric]

The Hughes & Kettner Zentera was a great amp and a killer modeler. It sounded as good as the amps it modeled and had all the feel also.
I had mine for over 5 years and gigged it a lot. I always had compliments on how good it sounded. It only had 16 or 17 models and a few effects but they were all very good. I wish the chorus in my GSP1101 was half as good as that Zentera's chorus.

Good one... I had forgotten about the Zentera... sounded like an incredibly cool product, I never got to play one but it seemed like it was going for the price be damned cutting edge of the technology spot back in its day. It got rave reviews IIRC. Too bad H&K have never tried a follow up product.

[mwc2112]

Good one... I had forgotten about the Zentera... sounded like an incredibly cool product, I never got to play one but it seemed like it was going for the price be damned cutting edge of the technology spot back in its day. It got rave reviews IIRC. Too bad H&K have never tried a follow up product.

I had the Zenamp combo and it was a really nice amp. Wish I still had it sometimes, but I sold it to a buddy of mine (who has since moved away) and as far as I know he's still using it often.

[Dancing Frog]

I also used a zenTera combo for a couple of years. Although the number of amp models it had were small, they were well done models, and the palette was diverse enough cover everything. The unique feature of this amp was that controls of the amp assumed the controls of the models that it represented so that you could walk into a show room and set the knobs to the same settings on the actual article and get the same tone. The issue that I had with it was that you could crash the amp by plugging the cable into your guitar with it powered up, so you had to be careful of that you turned off the amp before plugging in or that plugged the cable into the guitar before plugging into the amp. That led me to be suspicious of its ESD susceptibility, but it never went down during a performance. I also protected it with a good power conditioner.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o13/theboarsrock/CSC_01720001.jpg

[toasterdude]

I had an Adrenalinn I, II and III. Love the beat synced effects. Modeling was... meh. Great songwriting tool - those effects are outstanding, I've yet found another piece that does what that does.




I see a few mentions of Adrenalinn here. I also have one. Roger has released a VST version of the Adrenalinn Effects. Mac has been out for a while. I did a bit of beta testing on the windows version and for 100 bucks is hard to beat as far as the fun factor goes. Very cool effects and like you said. . .you can't find them anywhere else.