Detuned Cab Experiment [Archive]

908SSP

04-18-2005, 05:22 PM

Well I did a detuned cab experiment yesterday. I put two green backs in the top of a 4x12 and left the bottom two speakers out. Closed it up and set up an A/B experiment. I have an A/B switch I made for speaker testing and used another 4x12 with 4 greenbacks as a control. I used my Trainwreck clone as the test amp as it didn't have an assigned cab so if this worked it might be assigned to the wreck.

Anyway the results were pretty amazing. My Trainwreck sounded like there was nitroglycerin running through it's veins. The cab had a deeper bass and a higher high with a scooped middle that the control cab just didn't have with the Trainwreck. EVH would love the sound the harmonics jumped and lead sound was ripping. During testing I adjusted the tone controls for the best sound and ended up with all the controls at 1 o'clock. This indicates to me that the cab is working really well with what the amp designer had in mind. The amp is 50watts and the two greenback cab is 50watts.

Let me say as well I am not looking for one definitive tone like some players but for a variety of good tones to use as I see fit. My JMP which I normally play through the greenback 4x12 sounds great with that cab just the way it is but the Trainwreck wasn't really happening with it like it does now with the detuned cab. I think it is worth a try to see if it is a tone you can use. It really works great for that over the top high gain ripping solo type sound.

Scott Peterson

04-18-2005, 08:17 PM

Extremely interesting Alex. Might have to try that!

908SSP

04-18-2005, 09:53 PM

I want to add I was not predisposed to liking a detuned cab. I have 6 speakers in boxes and a couple extra cabs that I will have to sell sooner or later so putting in two more wouldn't bother me at all. As a mater of fact if anything I have been a proponent of more speakers rather then less after all I have a total of four 4x12 cabs. Why it works so well I can't explain. I even think there was a noticeable echo effect coming from the empty speaker holes like I was running a reverb of delay which I wasn't and since the Trainwreck doesn't have either it doesn't hurt at all to have it. I may try this with a 2x12 as well taking one speaker out and putting on a closed back but thats is a bit more work as I don't have any closed back 2x12 cabs.

heybulldog

04-19-2005, 02:33 PM

please explained "detuned" is it mearly removing one or more speakers from a cab? are the results similar to running an open back cab? -im confused

908SSP

04-19-2005, 03:31 PM

Madhouse (http://www.madsound.com/index.htm)

Above is one supplier they follow some writings on the subject. I think they look like closed back cabs with one or more speakers missing.
They sound different more going on then just less speakers and not the same as an open back either. Some people are buying the Madhouse cabs so there are those that like the sound. I think you can get a really good idea whether it is something you might like by experimenting with a standard closed back cab. I also have seen other guitarists playing Marshall 4x12 bottoms with only the top speakers installed. Mater of fact the demo clips for the Suhr CAA100 use one thats what got me interested in trying it.

lhallam

04-19-2005, 04:01 PM

Here's a detuned cab I made following London Power specs.

http://members.cox.net/challam1/cab-side.jpg

The theory is that the size of the port is conducive to gtr-centric freqencies. It's purpose is for consistency not available with an open back because the frequency response changes depending upon the relation of the open-back cab to a room.

It's also is quite loud. Kevin Power's says a 2x12 de-tuned has the same spl as a 4x12 closed back.

908SSP did you find the volume to be the same when you did the A/B?

SeanF

04-19-2005, 04:20 PM

I've heard several players comment about that configuration adding natural reverb. I don't know if the cab's functioning as an echo chamber for high frequencies or what, but apparently it's one of the fringe benefits of that design. glad it worked for you, and thanks for the report. I wish more people would/could perform A/B tests like that, it's really the only way to compare apples to apples.

Nightfly27

04-19-2005, 04:22 PM

908SSP

04-19-2005, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by lhallam
908SSP did you find the volume to be the same when you did the A/B?

Yes I did the notice that volume didn't change. But if I am not mistaken it shouldn't because the same power going to two speakers is in theory just as loud as four speakers. With two each speaker takes 1/2 the power with four each speaker takes 1/4 of the power.

The reverb effect or delay effect was noticeable and not expected on my part.

heybulldog

04-20-2005, 05:00 AM

wqw, now i know , thanx fellas

Phloored

04-20-2005, 07:57 AM

http://members.cox.net/challam1/cab-side.jpg

That looks exactly like my cab (thanks Sean). Mine has a tolex covering and basketweave grill and is baltic ply though. Not sure what the baffle is on mine. For me, these cabs are the best BIG sound I have ever heard. I can't imagine needing a 2x12 setup as a 1x12 is just monstrous. I settled on a tonker in mine and really like it after 15 - 20 hours it smoothed out nicely.

r9player

04-20-2005, 08:18 AM

Hey Sean,

I actually did do an A/B test with my 1x10 Detuned cab (that you made with the enclosure of my Auble amp so it is all branded Auble) and a Bogner 1x12 cube with a Celestion V30 in it.

It really was a no contest

Detuned was louder, had more fullness to its tone, more bass, more highs. I think every possible aspect of tone I could think off the Detuned simply outclassed the Bogner.

Now for the fun part, I am getting in a Burt V 2x10 that I got off Ebay. Now that will be an interesting A/B test!
Keep you posted.

Scott Peterson

04-20-2005, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by Nightfly27
'Cept when its in my back seat, it makes my car drive around in circles....

NF

LMAO. :D

Shemp

04-20-2005, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by Nightfly27
Been running my Fuchs this way for a coupla years now: through a 2x12 Jenkins cab with only one SRO. I love it, punch and air all at the same time. 'Cept when its in my back seat, it makes my car drive around in circles....

NF

Dude I've seen you drive. Don't be blaming the cab!

lhallam

04-20-2005, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by Phloored
That looks exactly like my cab (thanks Sean). Mine has a tolex covering and basketweave grill and is baltic ply though. Not sure what the baffle is on mine. For me, these cabs are the best BIG sound I have ever heard. I can't imagine needing a 2x12 setup as a 1x12 is just monstrous. I settled on a tonker in mine and really like it after 15 - 20 hours it smoothed out nicely.

Thanks for the compliment. I guarantee that Sean's cabinets are superior. For one thing, mine can only take so much volume before some unpleasant sounds come out.

Luckily, I don't ever need to get that loud.

I love the airy sound the de-tuned cabs get, I'm not sure how well they'd work for a heavy metal band though.

I have another 2x12 that I made with antique pine I'll post if I can get my stupid FTP to work.

aeolian

04-20-2005, 03:54 PM

A speaker cabinet is a reactive load on a speaker (which is already a reactive load on the amplifier). For the incredibly low compliance of most MI speakers, as compared to hi-fi speakers, very large internal cabinet volumes are required. If you look at old hi-fi gear from the days before rubber or foam surrounds you'll see really big boxes for the speakers contained within. Because of the attempt at portability, most guitar amplifier speakers are housed in as small an encousure as possible. Since extreme bass is not required, and in the old days of archtops not even wanted due to feedback, small cabinets, or packing a cabinet with drivers in order to get more sound level, was practical. But look at the volume of an Eden 2-10 bass cabinet relative to the surface area of the speakers, and compare it to the same relationship on a Vibroluxe Reverb.
A port is just another load. The volume of air contained within, has some resistance against moving in and out and thus changes the compliance of the air mass within the cabinet. The combination of the large volume for a lower resonant frequency, and large low resistance opening for a lower reactance means that you have a cabinet tuned pretty much around the fundametal frequencies of the lower middle of the guitar. In other words, it sounds bigger and more solid. There's nothing magical about the opening matching the "missing" speaker. Any opening in either baffle of the basic surface area would achieve the same result in the same size cabinet.

Phloored

04-20-2005, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by lhallam
Thanks for the compliment. I guarantee that Sean's cabinets are superior. For one thing, mine can only take so much volume before some unpleasant sounds come out.

Luckily, I don't ever need to get that loud.

I love the airy sound the de-tuned cabs get, I'm not sure how well they'd work for a heavy metal band though.

I have another 2x12 that I made with antique pine I'll post if I can get my stupid FTP to work.

It's funny you mentioned that about metal. I have used a high gain amp with it and this thing sounds amazing with whatever I throw at it. At high volume it is as if the sound is non source specific, kinda like swimming in it. It's very addictive. It would take some very good micing to captue the effect ( if at all possible).

lhallam

04-20-2005, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by aeolian
There's nothing magical about the opening matching the "missing" speaker. Any opening in either baffle of the basic surface area would achieve the same result in the same size cabinet.

I think that's how Kevin stumbled upon the concept in the first place. Note that his dimensions call for 16" deep.

I think that has a lot to do with some of the airy characteristics as well. I've got an old 4x12 Acoustic 150 cab and I noticed that it is 15 3/8" deep. That's about 2-3" deeper than any other cab I have. It seems to have some of the same qualities as my de-tuned.

lhallam

04-20-2005, 07:14 PM

Here's my antique pine, same cab but with two different baffles:

http://members.cox.net/challam1/Oldrippy-2x12-frontgtr2.JPG

Note the grain and color compared to the modern yellow pine

I posted earlier:

http://members.cox.net/challam1/Oldrippy-1x15-side2.JPG

Phloored

04-21-2005, 08:32 AM

Thats some cool lookin baffle! Whatever it is, it works, and what is best for me is that it works with the volume low as all get out as well as at full clip. The lower volume moody feel is what caught my ear at first. When tou cast some texture into a low volume full sound that breathes, well it's just is so nice.

I really like that asymetrical baffle, that antique pine has some cool curves, nice!

lhallam

04-21-2005, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by Phloored
Thats some cool lookin baffle! Whatever it is, it works, and what is best for me is that it works with the volume low as all get out as well as at full clip. The lower volume moody feel is what caught my ear at first. When tou cast some texture into a low volume full sound that breathes, well it's just is so nice.

I really like that asymetrical baffle, that antique pine has some cool curves, nice!

I name this cab "Old Drippy" because of the cathedrals going down the sides.

The baffles on all my cabs are birch.

I am covering up a major screwage with the SG on the 2x12. Making these cabs was the first woodwork I've done since Jr HS and I've never used a router before. The handle of the router hit a clamp and took a right.

Fun hobby but there's only so much room in the house.

I want to make one more 1x10.

The antique pine was so cool to work with, it was neat thinking that at one time it may have been the door of an outhouse or part of a 1700's barn.

Old Drippy is 12" deep. Both cabs are finished with lacquer.

Funny noises come out of both cabs if I crank it too loud.

Phloored

04-21-2005, 02:44 PM

Old Drippy is a sweetheart. It's weird about the funny noises at high volume, mine don't do this. I'll have to try it with the 2x10 that is all pine and see, but the Baltic is just a firebreather at high volume.

Kudos to the woodwork. I am embarking on a loft project soon to make more room for gear:cool:

Can you hear the depth in the 16 depth verses the 12?

MuseCafeChris

04-21-2005, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by lhallam
I name this cab "Old Drippy"
Back in the band days I knew guys who had the same name for their johnson ...

:eek:

lhallam

04-21-2005, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by Phloored
Old Drippy is a sweetheart. It's weird about the funny noises at high volume, mine don't do this. I'll have to try it with the 2x10 that is all pine and see, but the Baltic is just a firebreather at high volume.

Kudos to the woodwork. I am embarking on a loft project soon to make more room for gear:cool:

Can you hear the depth in the 16 depth verses the 12?

Thanks.

I'm sure the buzzes etc have something to do with my construction although I can't figure out what it is.

Definitely can hear the difference between cabinets but you have to keep in mind different spkrs & antique vs modern pine.

The 16" is deeper & more airy. I think O'Connor stated he suggests ca. 12.5" - 16".

Phloored

04-21-2005, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by MuseCafeChris
Back in the band days I knew guys who had the same name for their johnson ...

:eek:

Hahaha!

Phloored

04-21-2005, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by lhallam
Thanks.

I'm sure the buzzes etc have something to do with my construction although I can't figure out what it is.

Definitely can hear the difference between cabinets but you have to keep in mind different spkrs & antique vs modern pine.

The 16" is deeper & more airy. I think O'Connor stated he suggests ca. 12.5" - 16".

I really like detuned cabs!

alanfc

05-27-2007, 08:56 PM

Guys, for a 4x12 de-tuned,
the 2 speakers must be on top ? Or can I put one on top, one on bottom, arranged diagonal?
Is there some sound science/physics to that.
thanks

teleamp

05-27-2007, 09:08 PM

please explained "detuned" is it mearly removing one or more speakers from a cab? are the results similar to running an open back cab? -im confused

Your very close, yes a closed back 2X12 with one speaker would be a 1X12 detuned cabinet. And yes again about similar results with an open back cabinet, with a detuned cabinet all of the sound is coming from the front of the enclosure.

In my experiences, detuned cabinets are great for low wattage (6 watts) amps in a studio enviroment.

But then, everything I know about detuned cabinets was learned from KOC.

Mike

teleamp

05-27-2007, 09:11 PM

Guys, for a 4x12 de-tuned,
the 2 speakers must be on top ? Or can I put one on top, one on bottom, arranged diagonal?
Is there some sound science/physics to that.
thanks

There is nothing carved in stone, whatever set-up works best for you is the key. KOC's speaker cabinet book shows them diagonal, but I have heard of people using all combinations.

Mike

908SSP

05-27-2007, 10:00 PM

Weird to see someone dig up these old threads. I ended up with 4 greenbacks in my Marshall cabs but did put together another detuned 2x12. This time two EVM12Ls in the top two slots of a 4x12 cab for my Soldano clone and it really works great for that. Plus it would too heavy with four. ;)

alanfc

05-28-2007, 01:05 AM

There is nothing carved in stone, whatever set-up works best for you is the key. KOC's speaker cabinet book shows them diagonal, but I have heard of people using all combinations.

Mike
OK thanks

alanfc

05-28-2007, 01:06 AM

Mike9

05-28-2007, 09:48 AM

I bought Kevin O'Connor's book on speaker cab construction and found it quite helpfull. I ended up building a detuned cab with a 12" Hellatone 30 speaker and closed back. I made it quite deep the overall dimensions are: 32" x 19" & 16" deep. I built the closed back cab from 3/4" lumber core luan. It's stiff, light weight and resonant. I routed defusers in the speaker holes in the baffle (1/2" luan ply). I'll need to beef up baffle and add soem internal bracing for the bigger amp this is going to be fed by. I ended up covering it with black vinyl and a wheat/gold grill cloth. Here's a few pics.

I have a Cannabis Rex and a pair Wizards to play with now. I was thinking of putting a pair of speakers in it and porting the front and back to let it breath more. I highly recomment Kevin's book - it's loaded with everything you need to build good cabs not just detuned ones.

http://www.deanguitars.com/userpics/lib4/amp3.JPG
http://www.deanguitars.com/userpics/lib4/amp7.JPG
http://www.deanguitars.com/userpics/lib4/amp9.JPG

alanfc

05-28-2007, 02:05 PM

guys -

I'm in the middle of this job and got to wondering about the mounting- Rear or Front

On my ENGL the original mounting is Front.

on the Vintone page with Detuned cabs, the speakers are Rear mounted.

http://www.vintone.com/detuned.html

To account for my potential losses in clarity, which mounting would be most beneficial, Rear or Front ?

I've read much about mounting and its seemsto be split between guys who hear no differnce and guys who do

thanks

alanfc

05-28-2007, 02:10 PM

looks like here's my answer, I'll go with this for now
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=252702&highlight=mounted

Mike9

05-28-2007, 03:20 PM

I'm rethinking my redo of that cab. I think I'll be further ahead to build a new one and use a rectangular port on the bottom. I'm also making it 20" wide and putting two 4" ports in between the two speakers. That'll bring my retangular port size down a tad. I did some cipherin' and here are some common areas of circles rounded to the nearest 1/4 of a square inch for your calculating convenience.

4" = 12.5
5" = 19.5
6" = 28.25
7" = 38.5
8" = 50.25
9" = 63.5
10" = 78.5
11" = 95

alanfc

05-28-2007, 03:40 PM

rockon1

05-28-2007, 04:25 PM

looks like here's my answer, I'll go with this for now
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=252702&highlight=mounted

Honestly I went thru the trouble of converting a 4 x12 cab from front loading to rear loading and when all was said and done I wished I hadnt! A lot of trouble for naught.I did it because of what I read here saying it would make it fuller sounding. To my ears it didnt do much at all. Anyhow thats just my experience. Bob

alanfc

05-28-2007, 04:58 PM

Honestly I went thru the trouble of converting a 4 x12 cab from front loading to rear loading and when all was said and done I wished I hadnt! A lot of trouble for naught.I did it because of what I read here saying it would make it fuller sounding. To my ears it didnt do much at all. Anyhow thats just my experience. Bob

indeed my job is done now and I kept them front loaded

walterw

05-28-2007, 06:25 PM

that classic Shaver live album with eddie's son (r.i.p.) on guitar contains some of the hugest-sounding country/rock/blues/kitchen sink strat tones you will ever hear, and supposedly it was done with a 4x12 cab with two speakers out, some kind of old high-power (200w+) boogie head, turned to face the wall and just blasting. those tones are just breathtaking, like he took the entire club and turned it into a guitar cabinet!

DC1

05-28-2007, 07:14 PM

I was intrigued/mildly annoyed, (being an audio engineer and all) at the very idea of doing this, but I think Kevin is pretty sharp and you all seem to love the results, so I decided to try it with my old Matchless 4x12.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t272/DCC318/SGHW.jpg

I took out the bottom 2 speakers and rewired the box for 4 ohms.

It works! the changes were about as you folks have described them. Very pleasant, bigger, rounder, and nice sound when used for distortion too.

Now I have 2 Matchless-modded V30's with no home, so I need another cabinet!

It never ends.

Thanks Guys! I think...

DC

Paul86

05-28-2007, 07:55 PM

Hey DC1,
Duh, is your Matchless a closed back cab? I though they were all open-backs.
Thanks.
And by the way, how does that Hiwatt sound thru this cab (I mean, Celestions)?

DC1

05-28-2007, 08:05 PM

Hey DC1,
Duh, is your Matchless a closed back cab? I though they were all open-backs.
Thanks.
And by the way, how does that Hiwatt sound thru this cab (I mean, Celestions)?

It is a very rare closed back 4x12 originally made for Tears for Fears to use on a US tour. I got it when they decided not to ship it home.

The Hiwatt kills through this box. I got a Fane alnico, expecting it to really match the HW better, but the Matchless box is better. What I want to try is 2 Sholz speakers in a 4x12 box and the HW...

My ears are bleeding already...

The HW BTW is a 1968 DR103, and is my tone reference for all other amps.

DC

DC1

05-28-2007, 08:07 PM

hey, does anyone know of a cabinet builder who makes the sort of deeper boxes that work well with the detuned thing? Besides Vintone? They look good, but I would like more choices. I want a 4x12 size box.

thanks!

DC

fyrwyr

05-28-2007, 08:18 PM

Yeah we make deeper cabs and also use front tuned or detuned depending on your preference.

I found the detuned 4x12 to sound very 3 dimensional and full, somewhat stereo like!

Stone Age Cabs and Tone Tools can make about anything as well...

DC1

05-28-2007, 08:22 PM

Paul86

05-30-2007, 01:17 PM

bumpty bompto

alanfc

05-30-2007, 02:38 PM

All done with mine!

here

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/alanfc/EnglDetuned.jpg

Beam blockers removed too.
Have to wait til next weekend for full on band practice to test !

Paul86

05-30-2007, 03:27 PM

Please, do report back to us!

alanfc

05-30-2007, 03:40 PM

Paul86

05-30-2007, 07:51 PM

So, alanfc, just checking to see if I'm on the same page - all you've done was remove the two bottom speakers?

Robal

05-30-2007, 08:31 PM

Been running my Fuchs this way for a coupla years now: through a 2x12 Jenkins cab with only one SRO. I love it, punch and air all at the same time. 'Cept when its in my back seat, it makes my car drive around in circles....

NF

I also did this with a closed back Jenkins 2x12 cab, using a single vintage silver Celestion Alnico driven by a Komet 60. Big sound. Better than the same cab with two new Celestion Blues (too bright). I was suprised how good it sounded with one speaker.

teleamp

05-30-2007, 08:37 PM

sure--

I also started a thread on this at HarmonyCentral and one fella went and did it within the course of the thread, with his results. here:

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1643084

I read that H/C thread :crazy, wow. IYKWITA

Now...
Alan, what are the ohm ratings of your speakers? What is the ohm rating of the cabinet? And, does your amp have 4/8/16 ohm speaker outs?

Two 8 ohm speakers in parallel is a 4 ohm load, two 8 ohm speakers in series is 16 ohms.

Paul86...
Here is an example of a simple 2X12 to Detuned 1X12 conversion:
A friend just covered the rear of his Avatar 2x12, took out the 16 ohm speakers and installed one 8 ohm speaker. Even though it wasn't as deep as a full sized detuned cabinet, the sound was much improved and the drummer was happy (he placed his amp right in front of the drummer at most gigs).

Also, anybody using low wattage amps (1-10 watts), if you really want to experience a "big" sound from your amp, you owe it to yourself to hear one.

Mike

CitizenCain

05-30-2007, 08:37 PM

teleamp

05-30-2007, 08:40 PM

I also did this with a closed back Jenkins 2x12 cab, using a single vintage silver Celestion Alnico driven by a Komet 60. Big sound. Better than the same cab with two new Celestion Blues (too bright). I was suprised how good it sounded with one speaker.

The last time I saw Joe Naylor, he had turned his 4X12 into a 2x12 Detuned.

Mike

teleamp

05-30-2007, 08:44 PM

To guys who've done this with a 2x12" cab, do you run your cab with the speakers horizontal or vertical? I'd like to pickup a 2x12 to make into a detuned cab, wondering if there's a preference for the orientation. Thanks!

My personel 1X12 detuned cabinet is set up vertical, with the driver in the top hole. The same with the afore mentioned Avatar conversion.

Mike

alanfc

05-30-2007, 09:19 PM

So, alanfc, just checking to see if I'm on the same page - all you've done was remove the two bottom speakers?

Well a little more, but basically yes..
I had a homemade 2/3 back on the cab, which I removed,
then took out the 4- 8ohm V30's. The whole cab was wired as and 8 ohm Mono. (dunno how/why).
Then I took the V30 and g12h30 from my Avatar 2x12, with their jackplate and all wired together still..that cab had 2 16 ohm speakers for a total 8 ohm cab. And put them in the Engl. Then put back on the stock Engl closed back. I had a small gap in the jackplate area so I put foam and wood on the inside like the Engl's stock back. About 1"x2". Then getting the Engl grill back on with its spacers took me a long time, real long.

Here's my amateur workshop during the job ha ha

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/alanfc/workshop.jpg

alanfc

05-30-2007, 09:22 PM

I read that H/C thread :crazy, wow. IYKWITA

Now...
Alan, what are the ohm ratings of your speakers? What is the ohm rating of the cabinet? And, does your amp have 4/8/16 ohm speaker outs?.

Mike

I'm all 8 ohm everywhere. My only Rivera speaker outs are 8 ohms and both the Avatar I scavenged and my original Engl were 8 ohm total.

teleamp

05-30-2007, 09:41 PM

I'm all 8 ohm everywhere. My only Rivera speaker outs are 8 ohms and both the Avatar I scavenged and my original Engl were 8 ohm total.

If you have an 8 ohm speaker, you can turn the Avatar into a detuned 1X12 cab, or is that what you did?

Mike

CitizenCain

05-30-2007, 09:43 PM

My personel 1X12 detuned cabinet is set up vertical, with the driver in the top hole. The same with the afore mentioned Avatar conversion.

Mike

Thanks, Mike!

alanfc

05-30-2007, 10:32 PM

If you have an 8 ohm speaker, you can turn the Avatar into a detuned 1X12 cab, or is that what you did?

Mike

hey I didn't think of that....maybe I will ! I'll want to fashion some type of closed back for it though. Now stock its one of those oval backs

My project was the 4x12

DC1

05-30-2007, 11:50 PM

3 days now, and I still love it.

Tried it with the Marshall, the Hiwatt, the Blues Star, and the Univalve and I love the sound.

What a stupid idea! How can it sound so good?

:eek:

DC

alanfc

05-31-2007, 12:05 AM

3 days now, and I still love it.

Tried it with the Marshall, the Hiwatt, the Blues Star, and the Univalve and I love the sound.

What a stupid idea! How can it sound so good?

:eek:

DC

gaahhhh I have to wait till Fri. nite to try mine :jo
:drool

Paul86

05-31-2007, 02:48 PM

:beer

HassanBinSober

05-31-2007, 09:35 PM

Detuned cabs work for me :)

At lower volume they help fill the room with tone.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e22/abg2006/IMG_5244.jpg

alanfc

06-02-2007, 12:42 PM

gaahhhh I have to wait till Fri. nite to try mine

here's my review !

In short, this setup is a keeper. I'm not going back. Especially since I'm so low tech and it was a pain to do all the work!
The speakers, a g12h30 and a v30. No beamblockers. The cab, an Engl 4x12 which used to have 4x v30's. I had made a 2/3 closed back for it. For the de-tuing setup I put the stock full back back onto it.

This is better. So much better that I may remove the EQ pedal from my FX loop. I was playing it with the band and didn't have any alone time with it to give you really detailed descriptions frequency-wise. But I was able to get clarity on semi-dirty tones without icepick in the ear sound. The full on dirty tone was balanced and really cool.
The amp is a 55 watt Rivera R55 (converted to a head), with the master on 5 and the gain on 5. Bass 5 mid 4 Treb 4 presence 4. Using a Fender Strat with a fullsize SD Screamin Demon in the bridge, 250k pots, Rosewood fretboard, Alder body, Graphtech saddles.
But I'm shopping for pickups now ! Something thats a bit fuller with a lower resonant peak... I always feel like I'm squashing the dynamics and having to tame my tones. I know that when I record with higher settings on Treble and Presence, the sound is fantastic. (and I know the SD Demon is in the "bright" camp). But we know recording seetings are way different than live.
I may give the Demon one more week.

djd100

06-02-2007, 01:47 PM

I tried removing a speaker from a closed back Weber 2 X 12 and found that the low end stopped at about 8 feet away due to phase issues, so be sure to check the sound of your Cab from a distance!

That said, it was real nice up close, though for the reason stated above I couldn't use it and put the other speaker back.

here's my review !

In short, this setup is a keeper. I'm not going back. Especially since I'm so low tech and it was a pain to do all the work!
The speakers, a g12h30 and a v30. No beamblockers. The cab, an Engl 4x12 which used to have 4x v30's. I had made a 2/3 closed back for it. For the de-tuing setup I put the stock full back back onto it.

Paul86

06-02-2007, 04:55 PM

So apparently the fact that the cab is slanted (alanfc's) or straight (DC1's) makes no difference?

bosstone

06-02-2007, 06:08 PM

I have made single 10", single 12" and single 15" detuned cabs. This design seems to make the most out of any speaker. You wouldn't believe how big a single 10" speaker can sound and how much bass it is capable of until you've tried one in a detuned cab. I bought the book LONDON POWER, DYI Speaker Cabinets for Musical Instrument Applications to get all the designs. Kevin O'Connor specs. a 16" deep cabinet but I found that I couldn't dial out as much bass as I wanted with a single tone pot Emery Superbaby so I ended cutting all my cabs down to 14 or 14.5" depth and it worked perfectly for my needs. I emailed him and he suggested a minimum depth of 12". I have since used these cabs with a Mark III Boogie, JCM 800, an Ampeg VL 502 and some other amps and all combinations sound great to me.

alanfc

06-03-2007, 11:11 AM

So apparently the fact that the cab is slanted (alanfc's) or straight (DC1's) makes no difference?

I don't know tech-wise and sound wave-wise.
But for me, after using a slant I can never go back to straight.

Paul86

06-03-2007, 11:12 AM

Sorry to keep pestering you, but why?

alanfc

06-03-2007, 11:37 AM

Sorry to keep pestering you, but why?

no no problem.
You mean why my affinity for slant?

Its just because I can hear myself better. Since our drummer is as heavy as John Bonham Jr. !

Paul86

06-03-2007, 05:33 PM

Thx

CitizenCain

06-05-2007, 08:58 AM

teleamp

06-05-2007, 09:18 AM

It seems a critical dimension in the detuned setup is the cab depth, deeper is better. Anything critical about the width? I've found a nice slant-top vertical 2x12 I'd like to try for a detuned setup, but it's fairly narrow, not a lot wider than the speakers.

A full sized detuned 1X12 is about 24"w X 32"h X 16"d. I have successfully used Avatar 2X12 cabinets to convert into what I call 3/4 sized detuned 1X12's, an if I recall correctly, they are about 21"w X 28"h X 12"d.

It might be worth a try.

Mike