Carr Rambler Is it good? or flabby on the low end? [Archive]

tedzepplin

04-19-2005, 09:58 PM

I've read a lot of posts saying the Carr Ramber with 1 x 12" kingpin speaker is a great sounding amp. But I've also read a lot of posts that say the low end gets flabby or farty sounding. So what gives? Does it start to get flabby at certain volumes but not at others? How can it be so great if it gets flabby? I'm very interested in getting one of these amps. thanks.

Den

04-19-2005, 10:24 PM

I love my Rambler and have no issues with the low end being "flabby". For heavier OD tones, however, I can see where many people might desire a tighter low end response. My solution is to fatten or tighten the low end with my TIM pedal ... YMMV.

Make no mistake, most everyone will agree that the Rambler is something special ... awesome, buttery, 3-D cleans, great on-the-edge breakup and terrific with pedals.

If you haven't already, spend some time listening to Jason Barker's clips at Steve Carr's website ... they'll give a great feel for what the Rambler can do. I'm sure you'll get plenty more feedback on this.

sanhozay

04-19-2005, 11:07 PM

If you like a punchy blackface sound with a little extra malt, great reverb & tremolo and tons of tweedy mids on tap then you'll dig the Rambler. Play it clean / play it loud. If you're looking for more chime and dirt there are better amps available. But {Read: I think} it loves humbuckers and single coils equally, as well as every pedal you throw at it. It's a phenomenal blues and roots rock type of amp but it don't play the gain game and it's not voxy or marshally.

Dirge

04-20-2005, 05:04 AM

The Rambler is a bit loose in the lowend. Yes, you can change the speakers and the tubes but you can't change the small transformer, the cathode bias and the Zero NFB loop. All of which tend towards a bit of flab in the lowend.

It's a great amp if you are after a "Vintage" sound, more Tweed & Gibson than BlackFace IMO.

Tag

04-20-2005, 06:37 AM

Originally posted by tedzepplin
I've read a lot of posts saying the Carr Ramber with 1 x 12" kingpin speaker is a great sounding amp. But I've also read a lot of posts that say the low end gets flabby or farty sounding. So what gives? Does it start to get flabby at certain volumes but not at others? How can it be so great if it gets flabby? I'm very interested in getting one of these amps. thanks.

Its a really cool little amp, but when put next to a vintage blackface amp, or a HotRod Deluxe, it comes up short. Just to loose in the low end. I do not think any speaker will get rid of the flub. Take into consideration that I just cant stand loose bottom ends in amps, or my women. :cool:

Ken I

04-20-2005, 06:53 AM

fullerplast

04-20-2005, 07:34 AM

Originally posted by sanhozay
If you like a punchy blackface sound with a little extra malt, great reverb & tremolo and tons of tweedy mids on tap then you'll dig the Rambler. Play it clean / play it loud. If you're looking for more chime and dirt there are better amps available. But {Read: I think} it loves humbuckers and single coils equally, as well as every pedal you throw at it. It's a phenomenal blues and roots rock type of amp but it don't play the gain game and it's not voxy or marshally.

I'd say this is a pretty accurate description, with just a bit of Vox when you go up in volume due to the cathode bias and no NFB. It gets quite tweed-like in triode mode and very blackface in pentode. The clean tones are stunning. Not much breakup until you go up in vol and mids. The mid control is very effective in changing the character of the amp and all the controls have a very smooth and useable range, unlike some BF Fenders that have a relatively narrow sweet spot in many cases.

As for the bottom end, I think it is tighter than a BFDR and similar to a BFVR. As with the Fenders, it helps greatly if you roll the bass way down as the volume goes up.

04-20-2005, 08:53 AM

Originally posted by fullerplast
It gets quite tweed-like in triode mode and very blackface in pentode.

, it helps greatly if you roll the bass way down as the volume goes up.

agree 100%

If the low end is flubby, turn down the bass. The Rambler has a huge low end even with the bass knob almost off.

I have not played a better amp for clean tones and using pedals other than my old Bruno Cowtipper which will run you about $1k more and will not have the build quality, versatility or resale. The reverb is almost as good, and the Carr will do tweed as well as blackface.

After owning a few tone kings and enjoying the tweed and blackface tones in one box, the Rambler does it even better imo - though you can't footswitch between blackface and tweed and need to be willing to change settings for optimum tweed and blackface tones.

I didn't mind the Kingpin speaker, but tried a Cannabis Rex and got smoother highs and bigger/tighter lows. It will still flub with high bass settings though.

threm

04-20-2005, 12:22 PM

Hi,
I started another thread;

"Getting a new amp; the Juke 1210 vs Carr Rambler vs TK Meteor II ?"
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78985

but not much info so far.

Looking for clean/semiclean with 3D qualities.
Have any of you played more than one of these amps?

The Rambler sounds great on those Steelbender.com clips, still I'm tempted by the features of the Juke amp.

hemlock

04-20-2005, 12:57 PM

I've only played a couple of Ramblers and I was not as impressed as many here are. The ones I played had very good but not great clean tones and VERY flubby low end- even with the bass turned way down. OTOH, I have fallen in love with every Slant 6 I have played.

Shemp

04-20-2005, 02:22 PM

I changed tubes and speaker and now have a nearly perfectly clean machine. It is not as loud as 28 watts should be and did not work for me in live situations without a mike.

Better 6L6s, a Couple of GT12AX7Ms and a Weber cali makes it a great recording, home, low volume gig clean platform. I haven't sold mine yet after owning it for a year, so that says something.

tedzepplin

04-20-2005, 08:27 PM

Thanks for all the replies!

sanhozay

04-20-2005, 09:10 PM

Originally posted by fullerplast
As for the bottom end, I think it is tighter than a BFDR and similar to a BFVR. As with the Fenders, it helps greatly if you roll the bass way down as the volume goes up.

Bingo, baby.

The Rambler is a very Fender-esque amp that's perfect for blues. And, other than the guys in the shadows of SRV, almost every person playing a Strat through a Fender Blackface or Tweed amp is diming the treble and mids and rolling back the bass to almost nothing, or three at the most. Hardly anybody that plays blues at gig volumes is pushing his bass control to emphasize the low end. It sounds like turd and casts a heinous din over the whole band.

Tag

04-20-2005, 09:44 PM

Originally posted by sanhozay
Bingo, baby.

The Rambler is a very Fender-esque amp that's perfect for blues. And, other than the guys in the shadows of SRV, almost every person playing a Strat through a Fender Blackface or Tweed amp is diming the treble and mids and rolling back the bass to almost nothing, or three at the most. Hardly anybody that plays blues at gig volumes is pushing his bass control to emphasize the low end. It sounds like turd and casts a heinous din over the whole band.

Very strange....I always have and had all controls near 5, except for volume on about 3-4 on my Super, Devlille, Bassman RI, Vibroluxe and Pro Reverbs. In house, the volumes are usually around 1-2. If I dimed the treble and mid, and rolled back the bass, the amp would sound like a turd and cast a heinous din over the rest of the band.
It would have true ice pick in your ear tones.

cold_fusion

04-20-2005, 10:03 PM

A vintage fender amp has too much bass, in general, and just so happens to sound best at around two-ish on the bass settings....it's a fact of fender life....what so wrong with that??? A lot of the fender amp settings are very sensitive from one to three or four on the pot dial..... ie the reverb and trem speed as well as the vol........

sanhozay

04-20-2005, 10:26 PM

Bluedawg

04-20-2005, 11:01 PM

I love my Rambler, but it sounds like mine does the bottom end flub thing when I hit it hard with a full 6 string chord on an LP. It sounds like bad low end distortion. If I lighten up on my touch or turn down the volume it doesn't happen.

Seems to me that the Rambler is very sensitive to the tubes you load into it. I've had Groove Tube 6L6GCs in it for the last two years and it has had plenty of overhead for jazz and clean playing. When cranked the resulting distortion was interesting, but nothing to get excited about.

Just put in some Electro-Harmonix 6L6GCs in it and it now breaks up and rather low volumes. With the EH-6L6GCs the amp really sings with some beautiful distortion when cranked.

For jazz the Groove Tubes will go back in and for blues/rock I'll keep the EHs handy.

Now I need to get some of those 7581 NOS tubes and see if they get even more headroom for my jazz playing. i wouldn't mind having a Slant 6 either

:)

Den

04-20-2005, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by Tag
Very strange....I always have and had all controls near 5, except for volume on about 3-4 on my Super, Devlille, Bassman RI, Vibroluxe and Pro Reverbs. In house, the volumes are usually around 1-2. If I dimed the treble and mid, and rolled back the bass, the amp would sound like a turd and cast a heinous din over the rest of the band.
It would have true ice pick in your ear tones.

A. Your strategy explains the flabbiness you've heard in the bass of the Rambler.

B. Different amps have different circuit designs, different tubes and other components, so it stands to reason that it requires different tone control settings from amp to amp to get the best tones (or whatever each of our ears tell us is "best"). It's really O.K. to move those tone controls anywhere on the dial that gets the best tones. It's also O.K. to change tone settings when you change guitars ... or venues ... or volume, etc. to dial things in where they sound best.

In the case of the Rambler, for example, the designer of the amp offers sample tone settings that are all over the board for various guitar pickups and tone styles. If keeping all the controls at one spot was the right way to get the most out of an amp, why make them adjustable?

C. If you "always have and had all controls near 5" ... how would you know whether different settings would sound "like a turd'?

fullerplast

04-20-2005, 11:35 PM

Originally posted by Tag
Very strange....I always have and had all controls near 5, except for volume on about 3-4 on my Super, Devlille, Bassman RI, Vibroluxe and Pro Reverbs. In house, the volumes are usually around 1-2. If I dimed the treble and mid, and rolled back the bass, the amp would sound like a turd and cast a heinous din over the rest of the band.
It would have true ice pick in your ear tones.

I set my BF type amps differently than both of you....

I set the bass first, based on overall volume: low vol-bass on 5 or so; high vol-bass on 3 or less. I set the mids next, depending on what overall tone I am going for: scooped mid BF cleans- mid control on 3 or less; tweed like grind- mid control on 7 or more (on a Rambler triode mode is best for this tone). Finally I set the treble: if the mids are scooped I set the treble up to 5 or more- just enough to get good definition with the neck pickup (you can always roll back the guitar tone for the bridge but you can never get more highs for the neck). If the mids are accentuated, I set the treble down below 5-enough to keep definition but also to keep any harshness down from the high mid setting.

So basically I set the vol and bass in opposite directions, and then the mid and treble in opposite directions. Each different guitar may need to be fine tuned and each amp usually has a "favorite" guitar that it sounds best with.

Tag

04-21-2005, 06:24 AM

Originally posted by cold_fusion
A vintage fender amp has too much bass, in general, and just so happens to sound best at around two-ish on the bass settings....it's a fact of fender life....what so wrong with that??? A lot of the fender amp settings are very sensitive from one to three or four on the pot dial..... ie the reverb and trem speed as well as the vol........

No fact of Fender life AT ALL. When I set any of my Fender amps bass knobs to 2, they sound thin. At 4-6 they are perfect depending on the guitar. Less with a paul, more with a Strat.
I had the Carrs next to several different black face Fenders at Lark Music. The bass is WAY flubbier on the Car. The Fenders stay tight until you get real loud. The Slant 6 was the flubbiest. They are nice amps, but I could never deal with the Flub.

04-21-2005, 06:53 AM

Back to Ted's original question.....

imo, if you play a Les Paul, the Rambler might not be the best amp for you....unless you like the sound of an LP through a low powered tweed/BF type of amp. The Rambler is essentially a blackface princeton preamp into a 50's style power amp (tweed or Gibson?) If you use a strat, and you aren't a really heavy handed picker, the Rambler offers a really nice balanced fendery clean tone that can lean more towards tweed (triode/mids cranked) or blackface (pentode/mids low). You have to be willing to use EQ settings that may be different from what you are used to - esp keeping the bass low. I think many people who try the amp set the bass where they normally do on other amps, and then find the bass uncontrolled - and the Rambler will absolutely fart out with the bass up high - but keep it low and there is still plenty of bass and it does not fart out, at least with a strat with vintage style pickups. I've been through so many amps, and the Rambler offers such a nice blend of features/build quality and tone...imo does 90% of the tones of amps costing almost twice as much.

tacorivers

04-21-2005, 07:39 AM

"Now I need to get some of those 7581 NOS tubes and see if they get even more headroom for my jazz playing. "

Yes you do! My Rambler sounds much better with t the 7581's. Call Mike at KCA NOS tubes.

Dirge

04-21-2005, 08:23 AM

The 7581a's are nice sounding, very even and some headroom improvement over the 6L6's. I tried some and they rattled too much for me, but the tube clips had scratched the base so I couldn't return them. So be careful when you put them in just in case they don't work out for you.

fullerplast

04-21-2005, 09:17 AM

Originally posted by Lou V
Back to Ted's original question.....

You have to be willing to use EQ settings that may be different from what you are used to - esp keeping the bass low. I think many people who try the amp set the bass where they normally do on other amps, and then find the bass uncontrolled - and the Rambler will absolutely fart out with the bass up high - but keep it low and there is still plenty of bass and it does not fart out, at least with a strat with vintage style pickups. I've been through so many amps, and the Rambler offers such a nice blend of features/build quality and tone...imo does 90% of the tones of amps costing almost twice as much.

Exactly! If you turn all the EQ (treb, bass, and mid) down to 1 on the Rambler you will get absolutely no output, even with the vol up to max. So you have the capabiltiy to completely dial out whatever you want. If you blindly just set all the EQ to 5, you'll likely get a less than optimum tone for any particular guitar. I find most amps have far more versatility than many people give them credit for if you spend time to explore the tone and volume interactions.

Den

04-21-2005, 10:42 AM

To give you an idea of how the best Rambler tone settings might vary from what you're used to with other amps, here are sample settings recommended by Steve Carr in the Rambler Owner's Manual:

Recommended Settings (Pentode yeilds a punchy full sound while Triode is mellow and thick)

Single Coil

Neck – 60s American :
Volume: 10 o’clock Treble: 1 o’clock Mid: 11 o’clock
Bass: 1 o’clock Reverb: 11 o’clock Depth: off Speed: off

Tele Bridge Punch :
Volume: 1 o’clock Treble: 12 o’clock Mid: Full
Bass: 12 o’clock Reverb: off Depth: off Speed: off

Out of Phase Space :
Volume: 11 o’clock Treble: 4 o’clock Mid: off
Bass: full Reverb: full Depth: off Speed: off

Full Swell :
Volume: 11 o’clock Treble: 12 o’clock Mid: 12 o’clock
Bass: 12 o’clock Reverb: 11 o’clock
Depth: 3 o’clock Speed: 12 o’clock

Humbucker

Neck – 60s American :
Volume: 10 o’clock Treble: 1 o’clock Mid: 9 o’clock
Bass: 12 o’clock Reverb: 10 o’clock Depth: off Speed: off

Bridge Bark :
Volume: 1 o’clock Treble: 12 o’clock Mid: 11 o’clock
Bass: 11 o’clock Reverb: off Depth: off Speed: off

In Between Trem:
Volume: 10 o’clock Treble: 12 o’clock Mid: 11 o’clock
Bass: 12 o’clock Reverb: 12 o’clock
Depth: 12 o’clock Speed: 3 o’clock

Jazz Neck:
Volume: 11 o’clock Treble: 12 o’clock Mid: 11 o’clock
Bass: 12 o’clock Reverb: 9 o’clock
Depth: off Speed: off (Triode)s

These settings can also vary quite a bit as you move from lower to higher volume situations. Note that other the strat quack positions, the bass is never set higher than 1 o'clock. As volume increases, I find the bass setting needs to move lower.

Nothing here even close to settings of 5 o'clock across the board.

Tag

04-21-2005, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by Den
To give you an idea of how the best Rambler tone settings might vary from what you're used to with other amps, here are sample settings recommended by Steve Carr in the Rambler Owner's Manual:

Recommended Settings (Pentode yeilds a punchy full sound while Triode is mellow and thick)

Single Coil

Neck – 60s American :
Volume: 10 o’clock Treble: 1 o’clock Mid: 11 o’clock
Bass: 1 o’clock Reverb: 11 o’clock Depth: off Speed: off

Tele Bridge Punch :
Volume: 1 o’clock Treble: 12 o’clock Mid: Full
Bass: 12 o’clock Reverb: off Depth: off Speed: off

Out of Phase Space :
Volume: 11 o’clock Treble: 4 o’clock Mid: off
Bass: full Reverb: full Depth: off Speed: off

Full Swell :
Volume: 11 o’clock Treble: 12 o’clock Mid: 12 o’clock
Bass: 12 o’clock Reverb: 11 o’clock
Depth: 3 o’clock Speed: 12 o’clock

Humbucker

Neck – 60s American :
Volume: 10 o’clock Treble: 1 o’clock Mid: 9 o’clock
Bass: 12 o’clock Reverb: 10 o’clock Depth: off Speed: off

Bridge Bark :
Volume: 1 o’clock Treble: 12 o’clock Mid: 11 o’clock
Bass: 11 o’clock Reverb: off Depth: off Speed: off

In Between Trem:
Volume: 10 o’clock Treble: 12 o’clock Mid: 11 o’clock
Bass: 12 o’clock Reverb: 12 o’clock
Depth: 12 o’clock Speed: 3 o’clock

Jazz Neck:
Volume: 11 o’clock Treble: 12 o’clock Mid: 11 o’clock
Bass: 12 o’clock Reverb: 9 o’clock
Depth: off Speed: off (Triode)s

These settings can also vary quite a bit as you move from lower to higher volume situations. Note that other the strat quack positions, the bass is never set higher than 1 o'clock. As volume increases, I find the bass setting needs to move lower.

Nothing here even close to settings of 5 o'clock across the board.

Notice how the bass is always at or near the 12 O'Clock range.
Thats just about how I heard it as well. Like a Fender, when you turn it down, to my ear, it really thins the sound. Your ear may tell you differently.

Ken

04-21-2005, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by tacorivers
"Now I need to get some of those 7581 NOS tubes and see if they get even more headroom for my jazz playing. "

Yes you do! My Rambler sounds much better with t the 7581's. Call Mike at KCA NOS tubes.

Got mine from Mike too.
My Rambler sounds better with the 7581's too. So I guess we all can't be wrong :)

fullerplast

04-21-2005, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by Tag
Notice how the bass is always at or near the 12 O'Clock range.
Thats just about how I heard it as well. Like a Fender, when you turn it down, to my ear, it really thins the sound. Your ear may tell you differently.

True, but notice the vol settings between 11:00 and 1:00. I'm assuming nobody is talking about flubbing bass at that volume! Certainly none that I've heard. As you get past 2:00 on the vol, you need to start rolling off the bass-same as with almost any amp I use.

Tag

04-21-2005, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by fullerplast
True, but notice the vol settings between 11:00 and 1:00. I'm assuming nobody is talking about flubbing bass at that volume! Certainly none that I've heard. As you get past 2:00 on the vol, you need to start rolling off the bass-same as with almost any amp I use.

Totally agree. I just thought it was flubby even at low volumes, and even with a Tele. The starter of the thread voiced concerns about it, and he really needs to try one. If he is like me, he will think its too flubby. If hes like some others, he will not. :) I really liked the amp until I fired up some vintage Fenders that were right there. Imo, the Fenders have a MUCH tighter bass.

fullerplast

04-21-2005, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by Tag
The starter of the thread voiced concerns about it, and he really needs to try one. If he is like me, he will think its too flubby. If hes like some others, he will not. :)

Fair enough and completely agree about checking amps out in person. :cool:

I've heard some opinions of amps lately that were so far off from what I hear that I couldn't believe we were talking about the same amp!:confused: That's what make tone fests so cool-you get to calibrate other folks descriptions to actual tones you hear personally.

tedzepplin

04-21-2005, 01:29 PM

I'm the guy who started this thread. Thanks again for all the advice.
I'm playing a 1965 Hagstrom I single coil guitar. it gives me a very full and clear sound. The amp sound I want is like the old Link wray records - Rumble - (I know he used a Premier amp with holes poked in the speakers for distortion) . I would also describe the sound I want as on the edge of break-up. Just a littler dirtier than surf guitar. But surf guitar is in the neighborhood of what I want. I've ordered a Timmy pedal. When I get it I'll go try the Rambler again. I also want an amp that is just loud enough to play at some small bars without a PA. I've got a 5 watt tube amp for playing at home. When I tried the Rambler, I loved how it sounded so much bigger and fuller than my little 5 watt amp. also the reverb sounded so great to me plus I always use tremolo. I didn't play the volume very loud because the store was busy on a saturday afternoon.

One thing I noticed was that my Fulltone Fatboost wasn't having a much effect on the Rambler. With my little 5 watt gibson GA-5 Les Paul junior reissue, the Fatboost really livens up the amp and gets me to that just breaking up sound. maybe the Timmy pedal will do that for the Rambler???

Any suggestions for other amps are welcome too.