Hendrix "clean" at around 20 watts? [Archive]

Riscchip

04-20-2005, 07:07 PM

Curious about suggestions for something that can get close as possible (I know it won't be spot on) to that Hendrix clean sound. I know, it's not really squeaky clean. I'm thinking the tone on Axis (Castles Made of Sand & Bold As Love, especially). Interested in something that will work with my recording rig, which is setup for amps around 20 watts. I would probably be running an Eminance Red Fang with the amp in question, because that's what I have in my isolation cabinet for recording, and it sounds good with a lot of different amps in my arsenal.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Tag

04-20-2005, 07:14 PM

Bruno Cow Tipper 22.

http://www.brunoamps.com/22.gif

carlygtr56

04-20-2005, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by Riscchip
Curious about suggestions for something that can get close as possible (I know it won't be spot on) to that Hendrix clean sound. I know, it's not really squeaky clean. I'm thinking the tone on Axis (Castles Made of Sand & Bold As Love, especially). Interested in something that will work with my recording rig, which is setup for amps around 20 watts. I would probably be running an Eminance Red Fang with the amp in question, because that's what I have in my isolation cabinet for recording, and it sounds good with a lot of different amps in my arsenal.

Thanks for your thoughts.

You're picking a clean tone from an album Hendrix used Sound City amps on. To what degree he used them...nobody knows. Some of those cleaner tones don't strike me as Marshall or Fender, so one must summize it's likely the Sound City amps.

I'd look at a lower watt Marshall-type amp like a Germino Masonette or Aiken. Many more low-watt Marshall type amps around.

markp

04-20-2005, 07:29 PM

The closest I ever came to Hendrix cleans is THD Flexi.and as far as a studio go's the Flexi will give a lot more than just a good clean.

rwe333

04-20-2005, 07:58 PM

Marshall JTM45 (30 or so watts) or similar...

Have a Total-Tone built JTM45 repro here that just gets amazing Axis-type cleans through a Red Fang-loaded 1x12 w/ a G&L Legacy (Strat-style)...

Feel free to drop me an email if ya want more info...

cold_fusion

04-20-2005, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by rwe333
Marshall JTM45 (30 or so watts) or similar...

Have a Total-Tone built JTM45 repro here that just gets amazing Axis-type cleans through a Red Fang-loaded 1x12 w/ a G&L Legacy (Strat-style)...

Feel free to drop me an email if ya want more info...

Wow...that sounds like an amp to lust after....do you have a link or pics...more nfo????

rwe333

04-20-2005, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by cold_fusion
Wow...that sounds like an amp to lust after....do you have a link or pics...more nfo????

Drop me an email - he's considering building a few...
Have some pics/description...

rwe333 at yahoo.ca

Tag

04-20-2005, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by carlygtr56
You're picking a clean tone from an album Hendrix used Sound City amps on. To what degree he used them...nobody knows. Some of those cleaner tones don't strike me as Marshall or Fender, so one must summize it's likely the Sound City amps.

I'd look at a lower watt Marshall-type amp like a Germino Masonette or Aiken. Many more low-watt Marshall type amps around.

I owned a 120 Sound City for a few years, (long ago) and a bass player I know still has the amp. ( I sold it to him) Extremely sterile sounding cleans. Maybe good for a PA amp. LOUD and clean, with very little gain. Sounded very average with any distortion box. The best word I can think to describe its tone is plastic like. Sounds strange, but thats what it sounded like! Lol!

Mine looked just like this but with different inputs....

http://i24.ebayimg.com/01/i/03/dc/8c/c7_1_b.JPG

Jarrett

04-20-2005, 09:15 PM

Aiken Invader 18 watt

cold_fusion

04-20-2005, 09:33 PM

The strat and the marshall clean to semi-clean bluesy...is a thing of beauty!!!!!! on par with a cranked marshall and a LP..humbucker unit....IMHO....a defacto tonal type that is in the all time classic "must have" heirarchy....tonal pallet.....along with a blackfaced Fender!!!!!!!!

Leonc

04-20-2005, 10:08 PM

Here's my contribution (http://www.PatchWerkz.com/Uploads/AxisStuff.mp3). :)

Swarty

04-20-2005, 10:09 PM

Originally posted by cold_fusion
The strat and the marshall clean to semi-clean bluesy...is a thing of beauty!!!!!! on par with a cranked marshall and a LP..humbucker unit....IMHO....a defacto tonal type that is in the all time classic "must have" heirarchy....tonal pallet.....along with a blackfaced Fender!!!!!!!!

Amen! In addition to old 100s and 50s, I have a couple of '69 Marshall 20s and with a strat with the amp turned up to about 5-6 you get big cleanish plexi tones at reasonable volume. With Marshalls it is all about the attack, play gentle and stay clean, dig in and get mean. The nice thing about buying an old Marshall, aside from stellar tone is that they just keep going up in price...buy today...sell in a few years for a lot more than you paid. I've watched them triple in the last 10 years.

cold_fusion

04-20-2005, 10:31 PM

Leonc...loved that playing and tone ...wow...very nice and soulful!!!!!

Swarty: That the beuaty of playing a vintage amp today....buy it, dump some money into it to make it sound cherry without altering it too much..and let apreciate in value while you have it and basically play it for free!!!!!:dude

Den

04-20-2005, 11:18 PM

Aiken Tomcat gets there ... IMHO.

fakeox

04-21-2005, 12:14 AM

i would look for a 100watt tube amp with 2X12s (detuned in a 4X12 box & use a 20 watt amp for leads with an a/ab footswitch.

cameron

04-21-2005, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by fakeox
i would look for a 100watt tube amp with 2X12s (detuned in a 4X12 box & use a 20 watt amp for leads with an a/ab footswitch.

He was looking for suggestions for a recording setup. No one needs a 100 watt amp in their home studio. Very few people need one to gig with.

John Phillips

04-21-2005, 01:38 AM

Originally posted by Tag
I owned a 120 Sound City for a few years, (long ago) and a bass player I know still has the amp. ( I sold it to him) Extremely sterile sounding cleans. Maybe good for a PA amp. LOUD and clean, with very little gain. Sounded very average with any distortion box. The best word I can think to describe its tone is plastic like. Sounds strange, but thats what it sounded like! Lol!

Mine looked just like this but with different inputs....

http://i24.ebayimg.com/01/i/03/dc/8c/c7_1_b.JPG
The 120, and all the later Sound City amps, are really quite different from the ones Hendrix used. They have a completely different preamp design with an active tone stack, and do sound very sterile and plastic! I completely agree with you on this one :). The original 50W and 100W models with passive tone controls actually sound very nice though - IMO somewhere between a Marshall and a Hiwatt - although they still don't have a lot of gain.

Ironically, the later Sound City 50+ (with active tone controls) is beginning to go up in value because Jimmy Page used one on at least one of the later Zep albums. It does have a unique, almost fuzz-sounding overdrive, it's true...

For Hendrix tones at 20W levels, I'd definitely start with a Marshall PA20 (or the HW reissue) though, unless you can find an early Sound City - they did a 20W version as well, in a little metal PA-amp housing.

(Andy H. - I can't remember, is that one of yours a Sound City? If not, it's probably basically the same amp inside.)

carlygtr56

04-21-2005, 04:32 AM

Moods

04-21-2005, 06:20 AM

Deluxe Reverb...

I'm guessin' Jimi used a lot of Fender tones in the studio for the clean stuff. Try and you'll see.

<M

carlygtr56

04-21-2005, 06:29 AM

Originally posted by Moods
Deluxe Reverb...

I'm guessin' Jimi used a lot of Fender tones in the studio for the clean stuff. Try and you'll see.

<M

Yeah he did. Great example is Rainy Day, Dream Away.
Check that and then listen to those tunes mentioned from Axis. Not even in the ballpark, IMO. Fender is cleaner....

Can run down a huge list of amps...........what's the point? None are going to get that tone........it's unusual cause it wasn't Fender or Marshall.
I got some live shows where the Sound City stack was mixed in with his Marshalls. It was a bright/dirty tone, IMO....much like those tracks on Axis.

Tag

04-21-2005, 06:30 AM

Originally posted by John Phillips
The 120, and all the later Sound City amps, are really quite different from the ones Hendrix used. They have a completely different preamp design with an active tone stack, and do sound very sterile and plastic! I completely agree with you on this one :). The original 50W and 100W models with passive tone controls actually sound very nice though - IMO somewhere between a Marshall and a Hiwatt - although they still don't have a lot of gain.

Ironically, the later Sound City 50+ (with active tone controls) is beginning to go up in value because Jimmy Page used one on at least one of the later Zep albums. It does have a unique, almost fuzz-sounding overdrive, it's true...

For Hendrix tones at 20W levels, I'd definitely start with a Marshall PA20 (or the HW reissue) though, unless you can find an early Sound City - they did a 20W version as well, in a little metal PA-amp housing.

(Andy H. - I can't remember, is that one of yours a Sound City? If not, it's probably basically the same amp inside.)

Makes sense to me! :)

Tag

04-21-2005, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by carlygtr56
Wondering how your Sound City might equate to the highly documented FACT that Hendrix used Sound City on the Axis album? Roger Mayer, who was there, as were others stated many times that SS amps were used.

I also had a SS amp, and the cleans were GREAT...so there you go.:confused:

As John said, it was probably a very different one than I had. Mine sounded like trash. Thats why I posted the pic, to show the one I was talking about. :)

scottcw

04-21-2005, 06:41 AM

Closest I have played for those tones is an early, original circuit (not the ES) Dr. Z Prescription.

carlygtr56

04-21-2005, 06:57 AM

Originally posted by Tag
As John said, it was probably a very different one than I had. Mine sounded like trash. Thats why I posted the pic, to show the one I was talking about. :)

Quick Sound City story.......years ago, I guess the 70's, I had the band, and I had a Marshall JMP-100, I guess it was. The first of the Marshall Master Volume amps.
One day the local music store had a SS head. I think this SOB had 6 output tubes..I'm sure of it.
Anyway, my Strat sounded like a million bucks thru it...totally better than my Marshall.

I talked the guy into an even trade. Bring the SS to practice...plug in...the most horrendous treble coming thru the amp. I freeked. You know when you get something new to try. Totally freeked. Never tried to troubleshoot the problem...just hauled that SS head back and got my Marshall back.
Bring the Marshall home.....same sh&t.
I had left my wah ON in a depressed position!! I was too embarressed to tell the guy, so I lost out on what I thought at the time was a great sounding head!

SLG

04-21-2005, 07:18 AM

The Aiken Intruder or Invader 18 watt model would be an excellent choice. Both amps do a superb job of giving you both the plexi, aluminum panel, and everything in between Marshall tones.

threm

04-21-2005, 07:25 AM

The new 'handwired' Marshall 1974X Combo (18w combo) looks good, pricey though.

http://www.marshallamps.com/images/products/handw/images/1974.jpg
http://www.marshallamps.com/images/products/handw/hw1974.htm

The DST MarWatt is a similar 18w combo;
http://www.dst-engineering.com/MarWatt.html

Terje Rypdal has played lots of great stuff with his strats (often Squire) into Marshalls, mostly Bluesbrakers.

From a Vintageguitar interview;
"TR: No. Live, I go directly into two Marshall amps set up clean, and use the pedals and not so much the amp for overdriving the sound. I like the clean channel on the amp to be a little louder than if you would plug the guitar in without the pedals. Then, I just need the signal slightly boosted from a preamp-type thing.

TR: I'm changing it a bit, but it's usually the guitar to a Marshall Guv'ner pedal first. Sometimes, l'll use a Boss Super Overdrive instead. Then, it goes into a T.C. Electronics sustainer and into either a Yamaha or Boss Volume pedal. After that, there's a small Boss Digital Delay pedal which I use more and more for hold functions. That goes into some sort of echo machine, like the old Roland 301, or some Boss-type multi-effects unit. The old 301 is also nice because you can use it as a preamp, too."
http://www.jeffgower.com/rypdal/artVG97.html

More on Terje Rypdal for those interested;

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/artist/glance/-/78396/ref=pd_ap_sr/002-7886155-6754451

http://www.jeffgower.com/rypdal.html

http://www.ecmrecords.com/Catalogue/ECM/1700/1713.php?lvredir=712&cat=%2FArtists%2FRypdal+Terje%23%23Terje+Rypdal&catid=0&doctype=Catalogue&order=releasedate&rubchooser=901&mainrubchooser=9

John Phillips

04-21-2005, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by carlygtr56
One day the local music store had a SS head. I think this SOB had 6 output tubes..I'm sure of it.
Earlier version 150 or later 120 - both use six EL34s. If it sounded great I'm guessing a 150... did it have colored knobs (like the one in Tag's pic) or silver-topped ones? The older ones have the silver knob caps. I'm pretty sure all the 150s have only four inputs too... though it's been a while since I've seen one.

I notice how you refer to these as "SS" not "SC" BTW... does that stand for their usual nickname over here? ;) (Which the later ones do :))

Tag

04-21-2005, 07:40 AM

Dave LaP

04-21-2005, 07:42 AM

London 65Amps. Some of the best Marshall style cleans I've ever played through. 18 watts.

Dave LaP

04-21-2005, 07:43 AM

Originally posted by Leonc
Here's my contribution (http://www.PatchWerkz.com/Uploads/AxisStuff.mp3). :)

Great stuff Leon. Was that your Tomcat?

Leonc

04-21-2005, 07:47 AM

Dave thanks! No, that's my 350 dollar Ampeg Reverb-o-Rocket II. Was one of my favorites 25 years ago and it's back near the top again.

carlygtr56

04-21-2005, 07:48 AM

Originally posted by John Phillips
Earlier version 150 or later 120 - both use six EL34s. If it sounded great I'm guessing a 150... did it have colored knobs (like the one in Tag's pic) or silver-topped ones? The older ones have the silver knob caps. I'm pretty sure all the 150s have only four inputs too... though it's been a while since I've seen one.

I notice how you refer to these as "SS" not "SC" BTW... does that stand for their usual nickname over here? ;) (Which the later ones do :))

Sorry on the SS. I mean SC. It was early!

Don't remember the knobs...I don't believe they were colored.....I do remember when I plugged in it was a great great clean. It was closer to Jimi, IMO than the MV Marshall I had at the time. It was a semi-dirty/clean, if that makes any sense.....closer to any Jimi clean tone I had heard up to that point.

carlygtr56

04-21-2005, 08:06 AM

Guy posted this at Plexi P. A Vox AC-30cc. Guy claims it get the Axis tones. I can't hear it, my sound card is broken, but here's the link...

http://mysite.verizon.net/kentpearson/Sounds/LittleWing.mp3

John Phillips

04-21-2005, 09:18 AM

Originally posted by carlygtr56
Sorry on the SS. I mean SC. It was early!

Don't remember the knobs...I don't believe they were colored.....I do remember when I plugged in it was a great great clean. It was closer to Jimi, IMO than the MV Marshall I had at the time. It was a semi-dirty/clean, if that makes any sense.....closer to any Jimi clean tone I had heard up to that point.
Makes a lot of sense - I'd guess it was a 150. They're nice amps and do sound like that, from the few I've heard. (I think the very earliest used four KT88s, then they changed to six EL34s when the 4-KT88 model went to 200W.) The 120s don't really do "semi-dirty", they either do sterile clean or harsh, buzzy distortion that almost sounds solid-state (at ear-bleeding volume too) - alternative meaning for "SS" ;).

Tag is right that the 120s don't even work well as a 'power amp with tone', for pedal distortion, IMO - they're just too characterless to really work for anything other than PA. In fact, I played my first-ever gig with one, with the whole band (including vocals!) going through it, using all six inputs. Sounded awful probably, but I was too impressed with the concept of actually being in a band to care... or notice :).

I know a guy with a few old Sound Citys in storage... I'll remind myself to see if he's got a 150 next time I'm out there.

Shemp

04-21-2005, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by Leonc
Here's my contribution (http://www.PatchWerkz.com/Uploads/AxisStuff.mp3). :)

Thanks Leon, that's a great clip!

Leonc

04-21-2005, 09:40 AM

Thanks Shemp, you're welcome

straticus

04-21-2005, 10:33 AM

I thought the Tomcat I used to have did a great job at getting those semi clean Hendrix tones. But the best amp I've had for that tone was a Victoria Sovereign. It was 60 watts though........ but it sounded great at low volumes. I wish I still had that amp.

Riscchip

04-21-2005, 11:33 AM

Whoa...I just finished my morning coffee and fired up the TGP...my thread grew pretty tall overnight!

Thanks for the numerous suggestions which I'm going to have to re-read and look through. Much appreciated!

I really love Jimi's clean sounds because they aren't the pretty / bubbly / scooped mid kind of Fender clean that I hear a little too much on stuff I've been recording, hehe. I really love that sound Hendrix gets, but for some reason I've always gone to amps not at all like Jimi's (or at least, what I assumed he used) for clean sounds. Thought I'd look for something closer to what he actually used in terms of tone.

Again, the thoughts are MUCH appreciated. I'll have to check some of these amps out.

:dude

Riscchip

04-21-2005, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by carlygtr56
You're picking a clean tone from an album Hendrix used Sound City amps on. To what degree he used them...nobody knows. Some of those cleaner tones don't strike me as Marshall or Fender, so one must summize it's likely the Sound City amps.

I'd look at a lower watt Marshall-type amp like a Germino Masonette or Aiken. Many more low-watt Marshall type amps around.

Thanks for your thoughts on this, Carl. Every time I search for Jimi related stuff on The Gear Page, you seem to know your stuff in a big way!

Curious, what are your thoughts on the tones on Axis vs. the first Album? I love both of them, actually.

carlygtr56

04-21-2005, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by Riscchip
Thanks for your thoughts on this, Carl. Every time I search for Jimi related stuff on The Gear Page, you seem to know your stuff in a big way!

Curious, what are your thoughts on the tones on Axis vs. the first Album? I love both of them, actually.

Like them both. I think with Axis, Roger Mayer was there for the sessions...he came up with custom wah sweeps...a different sounding fuzz (Axis Fuzz?)......listen to Noel's tune, She's So Fine. No way is that a standard fuzz face of any type. A LOT of Roger's input for tones on Axis.

and again, it was Sound City on those sessions, but to what degree has never been established.