Sampson Gainstar 30 musings

[Moods]

I recently received a Star Amps Gainstar 30 from Procos. Over the last 10 years I have been playing some sort of Matchless amp in one situation or another. I can say without hesitation, the Gainstar 30 is a completely different beast. When I say "beast" I mean it.

I've had quite a bit of time with the amp over the last few days playing in a few different scenarios... One thing that sticks out all the time... THE AMP! That sucker cuts like nothing I have witnessed. It is without a doubt the loudest 30 watt amp I have heard... and it's a tiny 1X12 combo. Easily keeps up with my Germino Club 40 at fulltilt through closedback 2X12. I would guess it's louder. The bottom end on this amp is hard to believe. Solid as a rock even with a bucker on the neck pickup.

I'm not going to go on and on about the amp. Just a few comments. I haven't had it long enough to be anything but confused. I've never played anything like this amp. Puts you right out in front in a big hurry. Not saying thats bad in any way... lets just say it's very revealing of my less that stellar playing ability.

The clean channel on the GS is good enough all by itself IMO. The drive channel is pretty useless for anything but lead lines but it sounds incredible doing what it does. The clean channel is a pedal slut and seems to work well with just about anything. You could stay there all night with a couple pedals and never miss a beat.

Gotta say I like the clean channel voice better than my Matchless. Seems like a flatter response without the high highs and the cushy bottom. The highs are definitely there in spades but they aren't so extended... very under control without a touch of icepick. The bottom end just amazes me. The GS has a more apparent fundemental tone than a C30 but still has a good dose of that Matchless jangle and chime. Really quite amazing to hear both characteristics in one package. Think Matchless meets Dumble with it's own unique voice. Strange...

If you get a chance, definitely plug into a GS30. Really brings out guitars and playing... maybe more than any amp I have played and maybe more than I want. :p Not sure if I love the GS or I am scared of it. Reminds me of the "GRX"... for you Speed Racer fans. :confused:



<M

[wordsonyou]

Originally posted by Moods
I recently received a Star Amps Gainstar 30 from Procos. Over the last 10 years I have been playing some sort of Matchless amp in one situation or another. I can say without hesitation, the Gainstar 30 is a completely different beast. When I say "beast" I mean it.

I've had quite a bit of time with the amp over the last few days playing in a few different scenarios... One thing that sticks out all the time... THE AMP! That sucker cuts like nothing I have witnessed. It is without a doubt the loudest 30 watt amp I have heard... and it's a tiny 1X12 combo. Easily keeps up with my Germino Club 40 at fulltilt through closedback 2X12. I would guess it's louder. The bottom end on this amp is hard to believe. Solid as a rock even with a bucker on the neck pickup.

I'm not going to go on and on about the amp. Just a few comments. I haven't had it long enough to be anything but confused. I've never played anything like this amp. Puts you right out in front in a big hurry. Not saying thats bad in any way... lets just say it's very revealing of my less that stellar playing ability.

The clean channel on the GS is good enough all by itself IMO. The drive channel is pretty useless for anything but lead lines but it sounds incredible doing what it does. The clean channel is a pedal slut and seems to work well with just about anything. You could stay there all night with a couple pedals and never miss a beat.

Gotta say I like the clean channel voice better than my Matchless. Seems like a flatter response without the high highs and the cushy bottom. The highs are definitely there in spades but they aren't so extended... very under control without a touch of icepick. The bottom end just amazes me. The GS has a more apparent fundemental tone than a C30 but still has a good dose of that Matchless jangle and chime. Really quite amazing to hear both characteristics in one package. Think Matchless meets Dumble with it's own unique voice. Strange...

If you get a chance, definitely plug into a GS30. Really brings out guitars and playing... maybe more than any amp I have played and maybe more than I want. :p Not sure if I love the GS or I am scared of it. Reminds me of the "GRX"... for you Speed Racer fans. :confused:



<M

That's interesting. You are not the first person to describe it as matchless meets dumble. This is another one of those amps that interests me. I'm assuming the clean channel is matchlessy while the gain channel is more dumbley?

[Moods]

Originally posted by wordsonyou
That's interesting. You are not the first person to describe it as matchless meets dumble. This is another one of those amps that interests me. I'm assuming the clean channel is matchlessy while the gain channel is more dumbley?

Actually no...

The clean channel has that Matchless "chime and jangle" as I said but it doesn't really sound like a Matchless IMO. The GS has a flatter more natural EQ response. The amp is very balanced and somewhat controlled more like a Dumble. The feel is every bit Matchless meets Dumble as the sound is. Its not stiff but it's not compressed. Very responsive but it doesn't feel clinical. You can play with a pretty heavy hand and the amp doesn't cave in at all yet it also reacts well to a light touch. It's hard to pin down.

I hear... Matchless sparkle, chime and jangle in the clean channel with the volume set at 11 o'clock with my guitar volume backed off ... BF Pro Reverb in the clean channel same volume with neck pickup wide open ... 100 watt Marshall with the clean volume turned up to 2 o'clock and the bridge pickup on my Les Paul wide open (LOUD!!!)... AC30 and AC4 with a tele period (Twang!)... add Dumble dust and we haven't even turned on the gain channel yet. It's a wacked amp!

<M

[Leonc]

Hey Moods!

I was over at Moods' this afternoon and got to hear and check out this amp for a couple hours.

I think Moods' description just above pretty much describes what I was hearing. I think this an amp that Tag would really dig. Lots of big, firm clear sound. And when it starts givin it up on the clean channel, there's a solid, firmness to it. You don't feel as much give as with say a Matchless. There's give there...but it's not real pronounced. In this way, it captures an aspects of what I get from some the cooler Dumble (and Dumble-type) amps I've played through. It has this feeling of restraint...like it's holding something back.

He didn't mess with the OD channel as much but it had tons of gain and when opened up a little, would chime right into very cool, sizzling harmonic feedback like a great Dumble or Trainwreck. Again, there was this underlying firmness to each note.

Like the UG30 and Cowtipper, this amp has a very refined sound. Nothing wild, uncontrolled, wooly, fizzy about it. Seemed to be voiced excellenty for sittin in the mix just right.

With his LP (one of the best sound LPs I've heard), Moods was coaxing some very Robben-esque tones out of it. Kinda getting Robben's Politician type sound. It's got a big sound with great low-end. Sometimes kind of sounded like a very refined JTM45 to me...

[Moods]

Originally posted by Leonc
Hey Moods!

I was over at Moods' this afternoon and got to hear and check out this amp for a couple hours.

I think Moods' description just above pretty much describes what I was hearing. I think this an amp that Tag would really dig. Lots of big, firm clear sound. And when it starts givin it up on the clean channel, there's a solid, firmness to it. You don't feel as much give as with say a Matchless. There's give there...but it's not real pronounced. In this way, it captures an aspects of what I get from some the cooler Dumble (and Dumble-type) amps I've played through. It has this feeling of restraint...like it's holding something back.

He didn't mess with the OD channel as much but it had tons of gain and when opened up a little, would chime right into very cool, sizzling harmonic feedback like a great Dumble or Trainwreck. Again, there was this underlying firmness to each note.

Like the UG30 and Cowtipper, this amp has a very refined sound. Nothing wild, uncontrolled, wooly, fizzy about it. Seemed to be voiced excellenty for sittin in the mix just right.

With his LP (one of the best sound LPs I've heard), Moods was coaxing some very Robben-esque tones out of it. Kinda getting Robben's Politician type sound. It's got a big sound with great low-end. Sometimes kind of sounded like a very refined JTM45 to me...

Cool tunes you broke out yesterday. I enjoyed it!

I think the GS has some Dumble characteristics but I don't think it sounds as refined as a Dumble or a Bruno. I find it to be very unique yet not as custom sounding. The voice sounds more old school but it has that horsepower like a Dumble. Definitely has an easier feel IMO. The lead channel is more on the lines of the Dumble or UG30 but it too does not sound as custom, shaped or extended to my ears. The clean channel opened up has an incredible vintage amp feel and gives it up something fierce IMO.

I do like your "refined JTM45" comparison... it's a tuff sounding amp to be sure. It's really hard to pin down. I need to play a couple gigs in bigger rooms with the amp to really know if it's going to work. It could be one of the best amps I have played but it might not be my thing. Could also be exactly what I have been looking for. It's definitely not about good or bad... one thing for sure, that amp plain smokes. It's like you said "not sure that's the Moods tone".

Talk soon

<M

[dankayaker]

I received my GS15 the other day and had a rehearsal that night. I was using a Shiva w/2x12 cab and I have to say the GS filled the room with as much dispersion and volume as the bigger Shiva. They sound nothing alike though. I agree with how Moods described it, with my McInturff Taurus lets just say I was content with no pedals at all and had a huge grin on my face . . . .the feel of the amp was better to me than anything I've owned before (a fair number of high dollars amps).

The clean channel to me is fantastic, chimey without the mid scooped soound, notes seem to have a bit of natural compression yet they are stout and large. I was a little disappointed to discover the FX loop does not work on the clean channel, but I guess I can adjust.

The amp weighs a lot but feels extremely well made. . . .and frankly for the price I payed, compared to other amps I've owned, I feel it was by far the best deal in amps out there right now.

Hope I didn't derail the thread.

Oh yeh . . . this amp has alot of "Bloom" . . .the OD channel maxed is as rich an OD as I've heard.

[tedwoods]

I'm glad you like your Star amps,guys!Enjoy!

Ted

[dankayaker]

HI Tedwoods . . . . . .any words of wisdom from experience ?

[tedwoods]

Well,the more i play the more I dig the amp!

I've tried fiddling with the tubes a bit,put in some GT 12AX7-M's in the first positions.It really made the lead channel smooth and honey like without detracting from the clean channel's detail.

Now,I want you guys to try something and tell me if my ears are fooling me or not but I think turning the loop knobs all the way up with nothing plugged in affects the overall feel of the lead channel.I like what happens,it's like a mild compression and overall fattening-I don't know, but I just wanna make sure...

Now,the lead channel clearly sounds good on its own but in a band it's just amazing how the frequency balance sits just perfectly.
I got the crunch-less high gain-tones by keeping the gain at 2:00,trim at around noon and the guitar volume backed off.
Also,the voicing of the cut-brilliance knob is really great on this amp(unlike some earlier Sampson designs).No shrilness whatsoever!
The amp does not suffer from the usual homogenised feeling of high gain designs since it manages to provide superb touch responsiveness at its high gain tones.
And you've got to love what it does to different pickup configurations under high gain:Humbuckers,P-90's and single coils all sound amazingly different yet never too stretched...a first for a high gain design for me.
Last thing I noticed was how great the speaker sounded in both clean and high gain tones,a tough task for a V30!Trying some of my amps through the Star cab confirmed this and also trying the Star through the Matchless 2x12 cab or the Z-Best improved the presence(bigger cabs)but did not do much for the voicing balance.
My back'll certainly be happier to know that...

Keep posting your findings guys.Who knows?Maybe we'll even end up doing a Star amps Roll Call!!!

[Moods]

You nailed it Ted... and thanks for the advice before I purchased the GS. I will try turning up the effects loop later today and get back to you.

It's funny, I didn't really care for the OD channel at first. After messin' with it I am finding what I was hoping for. I'm not a big high gain player. I like old school tones for the most. I had to turn the gain down to 10 o'clock and turn the trim up to 3:00 to get the attack I am looking for with my Les Paul. I'm getting a very cool JCM 800 vibe from that channel. Really nice rubbery feel with notes that seem to stick to your fingers. Man does this amp cut and without even a tiny hint of harshness... in either channel.

I can't imagine changing the speaker... seems like a near ideal match in both channels. I generally don't like V30's, but like Matchless amps, it seems to sound "right" with the GS.

I just can't get over how loud and how flexible the clean volume is. With the volume set from 9:30 to 1:00 the amp sounds feels very much the same and the dynamics are pretty similar. However, you go from about the same volume as my 15 watt Spitfire at 9:30 to what sounds the same volume as my Germino Club 40 at 1:00. After 2:00 that sucker is so freakin tough it's scary.

What kind of effect units are you guys using for the OD channel? I need something small that will work with the loop. Sure wish I could switch the effects from my board. What kind of EQ settings are you using?

Here are mine with a Les Paul:

Clean Volume: 10:00
Treble: 12:00
Bass: 11:00

OD Gain: 10:00
Trim: 3:00
Treble 2:00
Bass 12:00
Brilliance: 10:30 (I agree, this one works well)

[dankayaker]

I'm using a DSL EchoTap only right now although my OCD will be in next week so I'll let you guys know if that offers any useable flavors.

I have not messed with the FX loop without anything plugged in. I'll try that tonight though.

regardring the overdrive channel, so far I like the gain maxed with the master around 9-10 o'clock. I haven't found many useable tones with low gain yet . . . . I'm sure I've just not tried enough tweaking . . . but man full out I love this amp in the drive channel.

I'm also going to plug up my Bogner 2x12 and see what it sounds like . . . . . a lot of changes coming (Voodoo hummers, OCD) so the next week will be experimenting. . . . . . but I can't wait.

Friggin great amp !

PS . . . . .the Germino Club is next

[tedwoods]

Great!It's nice to be in accord with excellent TGP members like you guys.

My clean channel settings are identical to Moods'.
Drive channel settings vary but the all around one seems to gravitate towards:
Gain:2-3:00
Trim:12:00
Treble:12-1:00
Bass:10:00
Master:12:00
Brilliance:12:00
This works without any major changes for both humbuckers and P-90's and I can roll the volume a bit for crunch and then go back up for leads.

My amp came with a sheet of paper stating that the front three preamp tubes should be JJ and the back two EI's.
While this is a great combination I think it favors the clean channel more than the drive one...Short plate JJ's are great tubes but in multiple gain stages they might become a bit too aggressive in the midrange and slightly bloated and clouded in the lower midrange.
GT's are much more balanced.
And also EI's,while they add nice detail and shimmer they can thin out a bit too much at the driver position.
JJ's on the other hand make exellent driver tubes,especially under heavy pummeling.
The gain channel benefited from this GT/JJ combination while the clean channel did not suffer one bit,the mark of a great design.

I'm not a big fan of effects,so I can't be of any help there...but the TTE(the only "effect" I've got)sounds incredible!

It sure is a pleasant surprise to get an amp named GAINstar and discover it's also a CLEANstar!

The loop thing would be more evident if you plugged in a patch cord rom send to return and then unplug it...(?)

Great vibes with this amp,anyway!

Ted

[Moods]

Ted

Tried the cranking the loop and I didn't hear much if any difference.

Recorded a couple tracks with the GS today. Sounds pretty amazing on tape. Surprisingly like a Marshall when pushed hard. I'm betting the EL34's in the 30 really influence the voice.

I still like clean channel being pushed with an overdrive pedal better than the gain channel but it's getting close. Gonna try a tiny mod in the gain channel Sampson suggested and see if I can get all the way there.

Diggin it more every time I play it!

<M

[Timster]

This thread has me GAS'n a bit, but I think I'll wait for the Sirius Reverb and/or Blues Star models to come out before I make a decision..

[TaronKeim]

Originally posted by Moods
Ted

Tried the cranking the loop and I didn't hear much if any difference.

Recorded a couple tracks with the GS today. Sounds pretty amazing on tape. Surprisingly like a Marshall when pushed hard. I'm betting the EL34's in the 30 really influence the voice.

I still like clean channel being pushed with an overdrive pedal better than the gain channel but it's getting close. Gonna try a tiny mod in the gain channel Sampson suggested and see if I can get all the way there.

Diggin it more every time I play it!

<M

What's the mod that Mark suggested? Just out of curiousity:D

-TJK

[MikeyG]

So does this amp have anything in common with the Hot Cat?

[Leonc]

Not much, IMO Mike. Better cleans. More even/refined sounding. More low-end. A little firmer feeling too.

[Moods]

Originally posted by TaronKeim
What's the mod that Mark suggested? Just out of curiousity:D

-TJK

I'll never tell :D Probably not a good idea to give tech advice/info on Sampson's amps. Should'a left that part out of my post... my bad!

<M

[TaronKeim]

Originally posted by Moods
I'll never tell :D Probably not a good idea to give tech advice/info on Sampson's amps. Should'a left that part out of my post... my bad!

<M

You Bugger You !!!:p

-TJK

[MikeyG]

Interesting that you bought a Gain Star, knowing you'd only use the clean channel. But from the clips of the CAA OD100, it's a high gain amp, but it's forte seems to be cleans, so I guess that shtuff happens.

I liked the Hot Cat, but I found it needed considerable volume before the harshness went away. I also found it VERY difficult to dial in. How's the Gain Star in these areas?

[Dave Orban]

Not to go too far off track here, just an observation.

Does anyone besides me think that the amps that Sampson has been associated with have gotten successively weirder and weirder looking...?

I LOVE the look of my Chieftain, but when I look at his successive offerings, they don't have that same well-thought-out aesthetic component... at least, not to me... ;)

Anybody else...?

[MikeyG]

I don't know for sure that Sampson had any input on the Aesthetics. But the SMF amps and the GainStar amps are not my cup of tea, cosmetically speaking, you're right. The Bad Cat amps, however, are gorgeous.

???

[dankayaker]

My wife thinks my GainStar is very attractive actually. Dark red with cream highlights is a good color scheme . . .speaking from a graphic designers point of view. Everyone uses chickenhead knobs . . . ? I didn't buy the amp for it's looks but I really think it looks classy.

[Dave Orban]

Maybe I sould be more specific...the general amp cosmetics are OK, but the "Star" logo itself is too small, is poorly designed, and is visually "lost" on the expanse of the amp itself. Compare it to the MATCHLESS badge on the originals, and you can see what I mean.
http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/2004/Star-Amps-Gain-Star-30-lg.jpg

http://www.matchlessamplifiers.com/popups/CH-112.jpg

[tedwoods]

Actually,the aesthetics of the Gain star are closer to the Matchless aesthetics than Bad Cat ever was.
The Bad Cat "tolex" is porous and absorbs oils(including typical finger stains,guitar cleaners,e.t.c)and dust.I've mentioned it before but my Bad Cat cab(2003) looks older than my Matchless(1994),not to mention it's so soft that it scuffs easily.I speak from experience...
Also the Star has a classy gold anodized front panel which not only looks better than the black plexi glass panels of either the Matchless or Bad Cat but it's sturdier as well.
I don't know about you guys but the one thing I hated about my Hot Cat were the "eyes" in the logo.I always thought it was kid's stuff...and so did a lot of my audience and other musician friends too,judging by the giggles accompanying the amp's entrance in the hall in contrast to the gracefull Matchless logo or the unobtrusive Star one.
I wouldn't call S.M.F a Sampson amp,but yes the looks are not on a par with Matchless and the spinning logo...well,I'd better hold my tongue about that!

[dankayaker]

Dave,
I think the amp in that picture is far less attractive than the one I got. Just my personal taste . . . but mine is burgundy with cream and really nice vintage grill cloth that actually works well as a background for the lit up logo.


Anyways, the tone of this amp is great. Cosmetics are certainly part of the appeal . . .I'm glad mine is the color scheme it is.

[MikeyG]

Sampson designed the SMF with Rick someone, a pedal builder....

[tedwoods]

Hey dankayaker,

Mine's burgundy and cream too!So, I guess we're officialy tone brothers or something...!

There are still some great pictures of mine over at the Fat Sound website if you'd like to check that truly killer colour scheme out!(Sorry,just a proud owner...)

Now,putting the logo in the middle of the panel would balance the look somehow,that's true.
Ofcourse the reason it is at the grill cloth side is because they still wanted it to light up and there simply was not enough space in the panel for that,but I'd still prefer a logo there even if that meant sacrificing the backlit effect.
After all most manufacturers don't have backlit logos.

Anyway,let's not get aesthetics crazy and concentrate on the tone,for now please,which seems to be a step forward for this type of design.

Ted

[tedwoods]

Oh! and something else while I'm at it:

Why two EL34's and not four EL84's?

I'm sure the two EL34's sound killer, but I'm just curious...

[Dave Orban]

Originally posted by tedwoods
Oh! and something else while I'm at it:

Why two EL34's and not four EL84's?

I'me sure the two EL34's sound killer, but I'm just curious...

Well, if it's anything like the Chieftain, 4 EL34s would be OVERkill...

Two is "just right"... ;)

[dankayaker]

hey wait a minute . . . . that's MY amp on the FatSound page . . . . .just kidding.

I'm really curious to know what you guys are using in front of the amp . . or in the loop for delay (assuming you use this). Any other pedal info is appreciated . . . as I said I have an OCD coming early next week. I'd love to hear a Landgraff DO with this amp.

[tedwoods]

Hey Dave,

I wrote about 4 EL84's like the DC30,roughly the same in output as the two EL34's in the Star...
I've got the 15 watt model(2 EL84's)...

Ted

[Dave Orban]

Originally posted by tedwoods
Hey Dave,

I wrote about 4 EL84's like the DC30,roughly the same in output as the two EL34's in the Star...
I've got the 15 watt model(2 EL84's)...

Ted

D'oh...! My bad...! :rolleyes:

[TaronKeim]

From what Procos had said, he was AMAZED at how much chime the clean channel had compaired to all the EL84 Sampson designs he had, said he was shocked that it came from those 2 EL34. Said it was the best Sampson clean channel he had tried, so maybe Mark figured something out special about those EL34's because I was a little perplexed at first as well.

-TJK

[Dave Orban]

Originally posted by TaronKeim
From what Procos had said, he was AMAZED at how much chime the clean channel had compaired to all the EL84 Sampson designs he had, said he was shocked that it came from those 2 EL34. Said it was the best Sampson clean channel he had tried, so maybe Mark figured something out special about those EL34's because I was a little perplexed at first as well.

-TJK

No kidding... the cleans on my Chieftain are some of my favorite! :dude

[tedwoods]

That great chime is also apparent at my 2xEL84 model and could propably be attributed to the overal design approach of the amp.

I'm sure the EL34's sound spectacular,no doubt about that!

My question was propably rather rhetorical,prompted partly by the fact that I saw a Hot Cat custom shop offering with 4 EL84's...and since the DC30,a classic in 4 EL84 design, and the gain channel of the Hot Cat somehow seems to have evolved or morphed into the Star design,I made the leap...no big deal,really.

Ted

[MikeyG]

I've heard *MANY* EL34 amps produce great cleans.

Seems to be a major misconception that EL34s can't produce great cleans. I think it's more the circuit than the tubes. Kinda like the misconception that EL84s are inherently chimy, they're not, but in the right amp/circuit, they are.

The notable difference between the EL84 and EL34, to me, is the bottom end. EL34s seem to produce fuller bass, everything else being equal.

I have heard many dud EL34s cleans too .... FWIW.

[tedwoods]

I totally agree with MikeyG.

Ted

[TaronKeim]

Originally posted by tedwoods
I totally agree with MikeyG.

Ted

+1

I still make the assumption that a lot of circuits made WITH EL34's don't have great cleans though, and that lots of circuits made with EL84's are made to be chimey... there are some I can think of that disprove both these things, but for the most part, I find it to be a semi-true statement.

-TJK

[Timster]

question about the GS - do you have to open it up a bit before it sounds good in the OD channel...hows the master work? Also, can you bridge the effects loop, then use the loop volume to control the overall volume - sort of like a secon master?

[dankayaker]

Don't know about the Loop question but I think the master on the OD channel needs to be up a bit to sound really good.

[Moods]

Originally posted by MikeyG
Interesting that you bought a Gain Star, knowing you'd only use the clean channel. But from the clips of the CAA OD100, it's a high gain amp, but it's forte seems to be cleans, so I guess that shtuff happens.

I liked the Hot Cat, but I found it needed considerable volume before the harshness went away. I also found it VERY difficult to dial in. How's the Gain Star in these areas?

I don't know if you are referring to me... I don't recall saying I purchased the GS "knowing I would only use the cleans"

I didn't buy the GS just for the clean. I did purchase it in part because Sampson has built amps with some of the best cleans out there IMO. I really like Matchless cleans in a band mix. They sit very well and dynamically work and feel like my old vintage amps.

I was hoping to get an amp with Matchless type cleans with a flatter response and tigher bass along with a gain channel that was very usable... that's exactly what I got. The gain channel is a bonus. Just hoping to get the it right there with the beautiful clean channel. Either on it's own sounds killer but I've never had a huge amount of luck with gain stage amps. We'll see.

There is not a speck of harshness with the GS at any volume. It just gets more juicy as you push it. The gain channel does take some time to get a feel for but the clean sounds great just turning on the amp.

<M

[Leonc]

Originally posted by Moods
... There is not a speck of harshness with the GS at any volume. It just gets more juicy as you push it. The gain channel does take some time to get a feel for but the clean sounds great just turning on the amp.

<M

Yah, from the couple hours I spent with it at Moods the other day, I'd agree. I think the reason the gain channel takes getting used to is that it is not like the gainier sounds in Matchless or BadCat type amps. To me, it was more refined, smooth...maybe like a Dumble-ized Marshall (as opposed to Fender) kind of sound.

[Moods]

Originally posted by dankayaker

regardring the overdrive channel, so far I like the gain maxed with the master around 9-10 o'clock. I haven't found many useable tones with low gain yet . . . . I'm sure I've just not tried enough tweaking . . .

PS . . . . .the Germino Club is next

I'm surprised you can play with your band running the master set so low at 9-10 o'clock. My amp (30 watt version) isn't loud enough to play in a band setting up with the master much below noon. The master doesn't really do it for me until it's above that point. That's probably why you don't like lower gain settings. You will hear a significant difference if you crank the master up to 3 o'clock and pull the gain down under noon. Not saying it's a better way to use it but the lower gain settings sound better with the master set at band volumes. I also play with buckers most of the time which will have an effect on gain settings.

YMMV

Isn't yours a 15 watter?

You will dig the Germino every bit as much! I don't think it gets any better. Ted and myself enjoy both worlds.

[Moods]

Originally posted by Leonc
Yah, from the couple hours I spent with it at Moods the other day, I'd agree. I think the reason the gain channel takes getting used to is that it is not like the gainier sounds in Matchless or BadCat type amps. To me, it was more refined, smooth...maybe like a Dumble-ized Marshall (as opposed to Fender) kind of sound.

Yep... The GS sounds like a Marshall on tape... not just the OD channel either. The clean channel with an OD pedal is similar yet it still has that Matchless sparkle when backed off. It's funny how much the feel effects our hearing while we are playing through an amp. To me the tone is more similar to a 100 watt Marshall on tape... not volume wise but it has the big fat voice with tones of clarity and detail. It's hard to believe it backs down to such a pretty and chimey clean tone. No bad compression or mud either. Very strange amp! I'm thinkin' it's a keeper right now. Sounds killer in a mix but I still gotta hear in a two guitar band setting.

<M

[Leonc]

Originally posted by Moods
...Sounds killer in a mix but I still gotta hear in a two guitar band setting.

<M

I'm thinking you'll have your chance real soon ;) !

[MikeyG]

Originally posted by Moods
I don't know if you are referring to me... I don't recall saying I purchased the GS "knowing I would only use the cleans"

I didn't buy the GS just for the clean. I did purchase it in part because Sampson has built amps with some of the best cleans out there IMO. I really like Matchless cleans in a band mix. They sit very well and dynamically work and feel like my old vintage amps.



Sorry, it appears I came off harshly and I didn't mean to.

I was just saying that you don't appear to be a high gain guy, but I thought that's what this amp is billed as. Aren't there other lower gain offerings in the Star line??

[dankayaker]

HI Moods,

I have a 15 watter . . .maybe my master was a little higher but it was not at noon . . . . . .the last 1/8th of the travel on the OD channel gain really kicks it up a notch. I'll try running the master a little higher and backing down the gain . . . . . the first time I tried that was with my Strat and frankly it sounded pretty "cardboardy" . . . .but I didn't mess with the EQ or Trim.

[Moods]

Originally posted by Dave Orban
Not to go too far off track here, just an observation.

Does anyone besides me think that the amps that Sampson has been associated with have gotten successively weirder and weirder looking...?

I LOVE the look of my Chieftain, but when I look at his successive offerings, they don't have that same well-thought-out aesthetic component... at least, not to me... ;)

Anybody else...?

I hear what you are saying...

I don't care as much about looks as I do about the way an amp sounds but I would have to agree I prefer the bulletproof industrial look of Matchless amps. I think if Sampson had used Matchless style grillcloth and put the Star logo on the valance set to the side (as it is) the amp would have looked unique to other Sampson designs but still very cool. However, the amp looks very nice and much better in person than it does in the pictures IMO. The logo actually looks darn cool when lit up. I have no problem with the way the GS looks. When you hear it you get over the cosmetics pretty quickly. Mine is black on silver and it looks solid and functional... that's what matters most to me.


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[tedwoods]

Moods and Leon C have a great ear for tone...and the capacity to express what they hear verbally.
You took the words out of my mouth!
That extra refinement in the lead channel and its unique feel are things I hear too.

Timster,you do have to open the amp to get the goods!The master works very transparently but this is by no means a bedroom amp.
The loop doesn't work as a second master volume.There's a lot of straight signal coming through at all times mixed with the effected signal.It works great with "lead" proportioned effects mixes and I suppose it was meant to be that way.

Ted

[Moods]

Originally posted by MikeyG
Sorry, it appears I came off harshly and I didn't mean to.

I was just saying that you don't appear to be a high gain guy, but I thought that's what this amp is billed as. Aren't there other lower gain offerings in the Star line??

Nah... no worries... this is all just cool coversation from where I stand. You didn't come of harsh at all. I wasn't even sure if you were referring to me.

You are correct that I am not typically a "high gain guy" but I do use some pretty driven tones at times. I was told the gain channel was very flexible... which seems to be the case after some time with the amp. From nice overdrive to full tilt over the top harmonic feedback, the GC delivers all things mentioned well above average. I am just trying to get the OD channel to match my style and I'm getting closer. Takes some time to figure that channel out vs the plug n' play clean side.


<M

[Moods]

Originally posted by Leonc
I'm thinking you'll have your chance real soon ;) !

Lookin' forward to it this weekend! ;)

<M

[MikeyG]

Originally posted by Moods
I am just trying to get the OD channel to match my style and I'm getting closer. Takes some time to figure that channel out vs the plug n' play clean side.
<M

Well in that respect then, it's similar to the Hot Cat! A bit hard to find the right settings....

[tedwoods]

Well,Sampson amps were always famous for their ability to get a variety of sounds with a little bit of knob twiddling.

In the gain channel,you can find modded Marshall tones with a tad more openenss and refinenment along with smooth,flowing Dumble like leads and a good measure of more modern high gain tones,all with the ability to fine tune them to your personal liking.

I can admit the Star and the Bad Cat share some middle ground-considering that they come from the same lineage,that's only natural-but they differ in two major areas:the clean channel,which is just plain remarkable on the Star and the lead tones which have more substance and balance the Cat's raw aggressiveness with some girth,just enough to add body to the note but not lose detail.

On another note,it would still be interesting to see an evolution of the EF86 channel at some point...

Ted

[BSHARP]

I was lurking around when I saw this thread and had to chime in.
I've had my Star Gain 30 for a couple of months and I can tell you this amp is like nothing else. At first, it took me a while to find specific tones, but now the amp's tones are easy to get and the sound is incredible. I love this amp!
http://home.comcast.net/~pwcjber/images/star59.jpg

[Moods]

Nice lookin' combo you have there. Looks familiar... I have the same amp and guitar in the same colors. How does the amp sound off the ground? It has so much bottom I'm guessing it sounds pretty darn good.

<M

[BSHARP]

I normally set it on top of a 4x12 cab so the amp is gut high and the controls are right there. The bass is tight and balanced.

[blrogers]

does the master work on just the overdrive channel or both?

brian

[tedwoods]

The master works on the overdrive channel only