HD 500, I'm stating to find the JCM800 to be GREAT

[jhall]

Weird as it's seemingly universally panned here and I initially HATED the sounds I was getting out of my HD500. But I hooked it up to my Powered Studio moniters (M-Audio BX5As) using the balanced outputs and tried to really tweak it into good sounds. I then tried the JCM800 and was initially unimpressed to say the least. But as I kept at it I found the t-75 cabinet that it defaulted to WAS really the best match for this model. I then put a graphic EQ at the very end of the chain and cut a couple decibels at 220 and a hair at 400hz. I then started to like the sound a bit more.(this is with using a stock Gibson SG special faded I really love the stock pickup compliment in these guitars). I then pulled the gain on the amp down to about 1/2 way. This seemed to tighten up the bass a bit and helped with the flubbiness. I increased the presence a good bit and this seemed to add that "brightness" that vintage Plexi-style Marshall amps are known for.
In doing thiss I found that I could up the bass a bit and stay focused.
Having found a good basic Marshall amp tone I then shifted to the "spices". I added a bit of chamber reverb post amp (I kept the mix down to around 8%), Then I put in an Analogue chorus Post amp with the mix at about 20%, Lastly I added the Spacious effect with a 15% wetness.
This sounds ASTOUNDING to me!! Now I get the beauty of this new modeller. :JAM
No problem with tht JCM800 amp sim to me anymore it has "it".
But I WILL qualify it with this: I am a lousy guitar player and my ear for tone is not as good as most here on these forums. My ability to tweak excellent tone out of modellers is limited (as it is with real amps unfortunately). But I sure did enjoy this one attempt today!!
Thanks for putting up with my long winded post about this.

[stvnscott]

Do you mind posting the patch?

[Lution]

thanks for the info. I'm also interested in the patch.

[Gandalf5150]

thanks for the info. I'm also interested in the patch.

+1 no doubt a usable JCM800 patch would be most welcome.:JAM

[jhall]

Nothing fancy. I just put a JCM800 into a blank slot. I then pulled the gain down to about noon and a smidge less. channel volume dimed. I then backed off the bass to about 9:00 ( O clock).
I then pushed the presence up to about 3/4 way. Then I inserted the Graphic EQ at the very end of the block line; I then cut 220hz about 2 decibels, cut 400 hz by about 1.3 db, lastly bump the 2khz range up about 1 db. Sounding good and dry and basic but that unmistakable hot Plexi era Marshall sound. The I put in a reverb (ducking at about 7% signal)post. Now we're talking. Then added a bit of the "dimension" effect post just a smidge mabye 'bout 12%. Then a inserted a bit of analogue chorus post but before the dimension effect.
Me likey!! With this I'd think you could increase the gain a bit too and get a decentely good sound. Also the "flubbies" of this patch may likely dissapear into a mix with bass and drums but I don't know this from experience. I haven't used the HD enough to set it in manual mode so you can pull the EFX out ala-carte

[scolfax]

Please post a clip!

[Julia343]

Are you using the full J800 or the J800 pre model?

I was messing with this today on my 500, and found a huge difference between the two. Yes the gain shouldn't be higher than noon on this. I have a Randall MTS and have the SL+ module with the JCM800 mod. That too shouldn't be run past noon on the gain.

[GuitarTone]

I'm taking a guess here.

A lesson taught to me by a friend who's been playing Marshalls for decades, and who's Pod 2 clips are the best I've heard.
His advice, use less gain.
Biggest mistake everyone makes, IMO, much to much gain.

I don't have an HD yet, but try lowering the JCM800 gain to below 12 o'clock. or even less...but this time, turn your volume up loud as though you're at a gig.
If you're playing at TV volumes then you'll keep turning the gain up, rather turn the volume up and lower the gain.

Just a guess, I could be 99,999% wrong. :)

[Guitar Vilain]

I'm taking a guess here.

A lesson taught to me by a friend who's been playing Marshalls for decades, and who's Pod 2 clips are the best I've heard.
His advice, use less gain.
Biggest mistake everyone makes, IMO, much to much gain.

I don't have an HD yet, but try lowering the JCM800 gain to below 12 o'clock. or even less...but this time, turn your volume up loud as though you're at a gig.
If you're playing at TV volumes then you'll keep turning the gain up, rather turn the volume up and lower the gain.

Just a guess, I could be 99,999% wrong. :)

Excellent advice. I'd also add an OD pedal before the amp with settings around 11:00 (volume), 2:00 (tone) and 1:00 (drive). Of course this will depend on how the pedal was modeled in the HD, I don't own one either. The goal here is focusing the bass for a tight and punchy low end so you can drop that EQ at the end of the chain. I try to use extra EQ only as a last resort, it shouldn't be necessary if you tweak your patches right.

[tochiro]

Reduce the gain? But what if you want gain? How to compensate for it?

[rcl]

clip/patch?

Not having a ton of luck with tones myself. I have a few I've come to like. None of the 800 ones I've come up with hold water for long.

[TheJudge]

The TS in the HD is spot on in my humble opinion. I A/B'd it against my TS pedal inserted in the effects loop and I was hard pressed to tell the difference. For all of the Marshall patches, I am running an EQ block in "PRE" and in "POST".

[RobRowland]

The TS in the HD is spot on in my humble opinion. I A/B'd it against my TS pedal inserted in the effects loop and I was hard pressed to tell the difference. For all of the Marshall patches, I am running an EQ block in "PRE" and in "POST".

I agree - in fact, when I did this test the only difference was that the real TS was noisier.

With regards to the JCM800 - maybe it's just because of my setup but I'm loving the 800. I use just the pre, and run straight into the fx return of my Blackstar HT20. Sounds tight and accurate, with the gain low and high.

[fr8_trane]

IMO the HD500 jcm REQUIRES the TS to achieve a good sound. I like the amp gain at 10 or 11:00. If you want more either crank the gain on the TS or crank the output on the TS. Either one will add more gain to the amp.

[Lution]

I have found The Rat Pedal model (Classic Distortion), at low gain levels and the tone knobs tweaked a bit, is a very very good boost for the JCM800 model if you need more gain and want to keep it tight.

It is what Nuno used in front of his DSL if I'm not mistaken.

[se7enx]

I've been digging the JCM800 the last couple days but for different reasons. I prefer the higher gain amps, and found the 800 to add more oomph while not making the tone too harsh to the high gain tones by adding it in the 2nd amp slot under a Treadplate for example (as opposed to say, mixing a combination of Treadplate, Fireball, Bomber, etc).

[RobRowland]

I have found The Rat Pedal model (Classic Distortion), at low gain levels and the tone knobs tweaked a bit, is a very very good boost for the JCM800 model if you need more gain and want to keep it tight.

It is what Nuno used in front of his DSL if I'm not mistaken.

The rat pedal model on the HD 500 is fantastic. I've used it for great Nuno tones (as you say), a good Satch style tone, and decent Slash tone and all sorts of other stuff.

I suppose it's the nature of OD pedals that they are easier to model than amps (SS to begin with).

[tatkovladko]

The matter of "use less gain" I absolutely agree with. Regardless if the dial goes to 11 I've learned that using the right amount of gain is critical, I'm talking specifically for modellers, no experience with amps. Once I go over the "maximum available gain threshold" everything goes very nasty, we all know the nasty pops and clicks and general random crap when the gain is cranked too much. I've settled with the notion that "there's so much gain an amp model can take" (I hope my English did not fail me specifically for that quote). Regardless if the dial goes to 11. Just don't overdo the gain. If I want for instance a JCM800 model but the usable gain threshold is too low, I will try with adding stomps or other tricks, ex. clever EQ can make it seem like it produces more gainy sound, use a compressor, whatever I'd think can aid. If I think it's still not enough just move on to another amp model. Or take a break to let my ears and brain rest.

Honestly when I read about the "use less gain" thing some years ago I thought "WTF gimme a break". But once I got over my prejudice it turned out to be exactly as advertised.

[RobRowland]

Use less gain is just good advice allround - not just for modellers.

Remember folks, a lot of the great tones we hear on records are double or triple tracked parts with lower gain than we think.

[TheJudge]

I have something to add, and I could be wrong.

One of the problems appears to be that some players never record anything. Many just play by himself/herself or in a band. Thus, he/she never double, triple, or quadruple tracks anything and tries to accomplish the sound of a record with a single guitar tone. I suspect that is why so many players crank the gain/drive too high.

I also struggled with the JCM800 model on the HD at first. After much experimentation, I think I have some HD JCM800 tones I really like. I don't think they are quite as good as what I get from my 11R's JCM800 model. I think the 11R JCM800 is more organic sounding and feels better.

[stvnscott]

^ Probably very true. Many players I know use gain to try to simulate the "hugeness" they hear on albums without critically analyzing how the "huge" sounds are crafted.

That said, with enough time and trouble, I'm sure I could finally get some great 800 tones out of my HD500. Trouble is, I don't have to struggle to get them out of my 11R or my Ultra.

[Lution]

This is a bit confusing. Lots of users are now panning the JCM800 model. Initially though, everyone was raving about Horst's clip of the 800 model. .

http://www.vettaville.nl/POD%20HD500/JCM_800_POD_HD500.mp3

Ampmodel: JCM 800
Gain is maxed and I'm playing some stuff (usually what pops up) that I would not play with this amp model and with max gain. But the dynamics are great and it feels nice.
No changes only gain at max and treble + presence at 2 + a bit of Medium Hall.
Guitar: Johnny Hiland PRS
Submitted by: Horst Keller


It sounds pretty good to me. Are people not finding this tone on their HDs? Is this now not a desirable 800 tone?

[Elric]

I have something to add, and I could be wrong.

One of the problems appears to be that some players never record anything. Many just play by himself/herself or in a band. Thus, he/she never double, triple, or quadruple tracks anything and tries to accomplish the sound of a record with a single guitar tone. I suspect that is why so many players crank the gain/drive too high.


FWIW, I think you're completely right on target with this observation. In fact, sometimes I KNOWINGLY use "too much" gain but understand that the reason I'm doing it is because I can't quadruple track myself on the fly, so I'm not going to hate on my gear if it doesn't work out. :)

There are other tricks/techniques to help get more of "that" kind of sound (super short doubling delays, multiple cabs or amps @ once, etc) but some stuff comes down to studio magic and it's easy to think/expect to get a particular sound because you have the right gear. i.e. I have a Dual Recto why don't I sound like Nickelback?

[jhall]

Here's a small poor clip. It is double tracked with a 50th Anniv Ltd edition American series Strat with the CS/54 pickups ( I used the bridge).
I put in a little drum track and noodled along on bass through the Bassman model to give it a little "mix" context. This is just the JCM800 amp sim (not the Pre sim). I used the stock preset mic on one track and used the 409 dynamic on the other just to give it a dfferent color:
http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=9808176&q=hi

[GuitarTone]

Reduce the gain? But what if you want gain? How to compensate for it?

Reducing the gain doesn't mean no gain, it means less gain.
The real gain comes from your fingers and your rhythm technique.

[sixesandsevens]

Reduce the gain? But what if you want gain? How to compensate for it?

Think of it kind of like how they say "the camera adds ten pounds". The recording process adds like 3 hours on the gain knob. :)

[GuitarTone]

IMO the HD500 jcm REQUIRES the TS to achieve a good sound.

So then how do you explain this HD JCM800 tone done with a Strat and no TS.

http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=9808176&q=hi