Anybody left EL34 land for EL84 land and made a quick U-Turn???

[* velcro-fly *]

I've had a bunch of nice EL34 based amps, and recently some great EL84 amps, and the higher gain, Marshally crunch thing is the tone I keep veering back to in my head.

There's things I love about the EL84's but sometimes something isn't quite right....

Anybody else experience the kind of "bratty" nature / tone of driven and very hot EL84's and not quite loved it? I like the 'on the verge of crunch' tones better with the 84's, and the all out crunch tones of the 34's...'' The clarity of the 84's and the singing of the 34's...

Sonically confused in Portland.

Steve E

[Chrissy]

velcro-fly,

I know what you mean! I too love an EL84 amp for onthe edge stuff, but the ones I've had or have (Bad Cat Cub, ERT33, to a lesser extent Framus Ruby Riot, Orange AD30TC) have been difficult to pair with overdrives and did have that buzz when pushed.

My go to amp is also EL34 - an Orange. Sounds great cranked and takes pedlas so well. I'm thinking my Germino with KT66 will also fall into the "just right" category in the long run too.

I'm giving 84s one last try - my 65amps London is done and should ship tomorrow... we'll see!

Chris

[* velcro-fly *]

Originally posted by shinrock
i made more than a u turn. i did one of those james bond backwards 180`s and kept going or was that vanishing point? kawolski where are you?

:D

Steve E

[Jon Silberman]

It's not an either/or proposition. I've got one of each, works for me.

[* velcro-fly *]

Originally posted by Jon Silberman
It's not an either/or proposition. I've got one of each, works for me.

I agree....I'm just going to have to get another Marshall or break down and get the Roccaforte I've been drooling over.

Steve E

[ericb]

Originally posted by Jon Silberman
It's not an either/or proposition. I've got one of each, works for me.

Best answer!! Same as my opinion.. BUT , I did go to el84's a few times to quiet down Marshally el34 -type amps, i.e. similar tones but quieter and the el84's share some of the characteristics but I tend to miss the bigger tube characteristics with those tones.. The only one I have that still sounds very Marshally is a very old ENGL stereo 35 watt 8 el84 3 channel jobbie, who's lead channel can still sound very boogie-meets -marshally with the el84's.. I love VOX ac30 tones tho so will once again someday need to get 1 of those

ERIC

[riverastoasters]

Originally posted by * velcro-fly *
Anybody else experience the kind of "bratty" nature / tone of driven and very hot EL84's and not quite loved it?

I'd have to say it varies a whole lot depending on which EL84 amp we are talking about. I have a 212 Matchless Lightning 15 which could be the poster child for bratty. But then the 30 Watt Bogner Metropolis Reverb is an amazing roots amp. And if it's "bratty" it's like a nine foot tall brat. Then we have a pair of Lexicon 284s (I bet those are real popular around here) but you end up with a real creamy thing there which has no nasality or edge that would suggest brattiness.

But if you really wanted to get an interesting EL84 sound I would suggest something like a Stephenson LJ where you can get the dissimilar pair 6V6/EL84 power section. I have a mode like that in my Stephenson head and it's really interesting. Aspects of chime and also creamy furious tweed sound. Plus in the ultralinear mode that is yet another color.

[57gold]

Komet for EL 34.

1963 AC 30 & London 65 for EL 84.

1966 JTM 45 for KT 66.

1966 Super Reverb for 6L6s.

1959 Deluxe for 6V6s.

[HeeHaw]

I know I only play a JCM 2000, but it still sounds way better than the PV classic 30 I tried to replace it with.:D I have tried the various Marhsall 18 watt clones and do while I do like them, I find they generally lack the thump of a full quad of EL34's.:cool:

[ericb]

Originally posted by ericb
Best answer!! Same as my opinion.. BUT , I did go to el84's a few times to quiet down Marshally el34 -type amps, i.e. similar tones but quieter and the el84's share some of the characteristics but I tend to miss the bigger tube characteristics with those tones.. The only one I have that still sounds very Marshally is a very old ENGL stereo 35 watt 8 el84 3 channel jobbie, who's lead channel can still sound very boogie-meets -marshally with the el84's.. I love VOX ac30 tones tho so will once again someday need to get 1 of those

ERIC

ALso Steve Velcro FLy (from the Zztopp tune? ) , since you got that little El84 Vht, you might want to pair that with an el34 amp and a/b them.. I very rarely a/b amps at my gigs ONLY because I have a truckful of pa gear to unpack and setup and RUN , but if I didn't I 'd bring at least 2 amps ALL the time! I love different tones! ERIC

[* velcro-fly *]

Originally posted by riverastoasters
But if you really wanted to get an interesting EL84 sound I would suggest something like a Stephenson LJ where you can get the dissimilar pair 6V6/EL84 power section. I have a mode like that in my Stephenson head and it's really interesting. Aspects of chime and also creamy furious tweed sound. Plus in the ultralinear mode that is yet another color.

Interesting....or a THD Bivalve or Flexi to do the same thing.

I think that it's back to a few different amps. I really like the VHT Pittbull Super 30 thats my current EL84 (and only amp at the moment) version - like it better than the 15 watt Metropolis I had. The stand alone combo tone is o.k. - I'm going to try out a Red Fang in it this week, otherwise I've just been running it through a Bogner ovrsize 2x12. My gut feeling is the EL84's will work best with an open back cab of some sort.

Thanks for the input so far everyone.

Steve E

[goneracin]

I prefer the clarity and articulation of el84's, and in the right amp they can sound pretty big, but I also like an el34 or even a kt66 flavored marshall as well, not as clear/chimey, but with a nice mid focus, and more "whomp" for lack of a better term, although 4xel84 has some pretty good kick to it too. I agree with the "gotta have both" crowd, both do have their strong and not so strong points.

[riverastoasters]

Originally posted by * velcro-fly *
I really like the VHT Pittbull Super 30 thats my current EL84 (and only amp at the moment) version - like it better than the 15 watt Metropolis I had. The stand alone combo tone is o.k. - I'm going to try out a

Oh will you stop that. I'm trying not to just go out and buy one of those VHTs.

So tell me, your Metropolis, was it the reverb version? What do you like about the Super 30 better?

[riverastoasters]

Originally posted by * velcro-fly *
Interesting....or a THD Bivalve or Flexi to do the same thing.

Those have ultralinear modes?

[* velcro-fly *]

Originally posted by riverastoasters
Those have ultralinear modes?

Ummm - if that means you can mix up tubes, yes :D

Steve E

[* velcro-fly *]

Originally posted by riverastoasters
Oh will you stop that. I'm trying not to just go out and buy one of those VHTs.

So tell me, your Metropolis, was it the reverb version? What do you like about the Super 30 better?

Yes, my Metro was the reverb version. I think what I like better about the Super 30 is that it's got alot more headroom, it's a bit more versatile with two independent channels. I think the 30m watt Metropolis would be pretty sweet though. Bang for the buck and tone wise the VHT kicks major ass.

Still jonesing for a Marshall flavor though.... :dude

Steve E

[riverastoasters]

Originally posted by * velcro-fly *
Ummm - if that means you can mix up tubes, yes :D

Steve E

No, the mixing up tubes thing is different.

Ultralinear means that there is a tap of the output transformer that provides a signal dependent feedback to the screens.

It ends up keeping the response of the output tube more linear - (less distorted) which is why it is called "ultralinear" but what also is true is that the distortion of this mode is different than the distortion of the conventional mode.

[* velcro-fly *]

Originally posted by riverastoasters
No, the mixing up tubes thing is different.

Ultralinear means that there is a tap of the output transformer that provides a signal dependent feedback to the screens.

It ends up keeping the response of the output tube more linear - (less distorted) which is why it is called "ultralinear" but what also is true is that the distortion of this mode is different than the distortion of the conventional mode.

The beauty of this place is that you can actually learn something most everytime you check in....thanks for the info ;)

Steve E

[riverastoasters]

Originally posted by * velcro-fly *
Yes, my Metro was the reverb version. I think what I like better about the Super 30 is that it's got alot more headroom, it's a bit more versatile with two independent channels. I think the 30m watt Metropolis would be pretty sweet though. Bang for the buck and tone wise the VHT kicks major ass.

Still jonesing for a Marshall flavor though.... :dude

Steve E

I haven't played the 15 Watt Metropolis, but I would guess the 30 Watt has more headroom. It has a couple of those schizo voicings which are on the clean-ish side.

I'm still keeping my eye out for a Pitbull 45 or Super 30 to try.

[onemind]

I always figured I was an EL84 guy, I love my Subway Rocket, Fargen Sabre (which does the mixed 6v6/el84 thing), Zinky Blue Velvet, and Metro...but sometimes, especially the metro, almost has too tight a sound, too much grind, if that makes sense. Lately I've been really enjoying the tones from my Aiken Intruder and Mini-Plex. Maybe I'm just getting older and a bit less of a "gain-head."

Steve

[Rock Fella]

my jcm800 2204 was an el34 amp and it was like having a lance stuck in your earhole tonewise, i much prefer the sweeter tonality of my cornford hellcat which is 4 x el84.