This amp KILLS!!

[telewacker]

I've been playing Fender amps for decades. I've had some really great ones, and stupidly sold many of them through the years. I've been using a particularly good DR for a long time which I've ABd with many others and never heard a better one.

I don't think I'll be playing DRs any more. I got an amp that absolutely smokes my Deluxe. It's clean sound with my Tele is gorgeous, bell-like, and perfectly balanced. It has a smokey, woody quality while at the same time it is bright and shimmery, but never ice-picky, like Fenders tend to be. It has the smoothest natural breakup of any amp I've ever owned, and with the volume dimed it just sings. It's the best vintage fender tone I've ever got, and it ain't a Fender. It's what my Deluxe, and every Deluxe I ever played including a particular favorite one used by a well known afficianado who will remain nameless, aspires to be.

It's a '64 or '65 Ampeg Gemini that I got for $350. I know the Reverberocket's supposed to be the one, but this amp sounds much better to me. The original speaker is the weak link, and perhaps that's why more people haven't caught on to this model. I tried a few different speakers and they all sounded good. I settled on a ceramic Blue Dog.

If the tubes aren't original, they're close to it.

I can't get over how good this amp sounds. I can't think of a way to improve it, wheras every other amp I've ever owned, no matter how good it was always had something that could be imagined to improve it, and I wouldn't dream of using a pedal with it.

This amp and a Tele is like the archetype of the vintage Fender tone I've had in my head for 30 years.

[DestroyAllGuitars]

What model Gemeni? I have a Gemeni I that is incredible (1X12)
and my brother has a Gemeni 2 that is also amazing (1X15").
Those old Ampegs are no joke and are absolutely the best bang
for the buck for the past 30 years. Listen to the Stones "Get
Your Ya Ya's Out" live album. That was when they were in their
Ampeg glory days.

Turn that Gemeni up past 1:00 O'clock and watch out!!!!

[MikeyG]

Originally posted by CliffC
Listen to the Stones "Get
Your Ya Ya's Out" live album. That was when they were in their
Ampeg glory days.

Turn that Gemeni up past 1:00 O'clock and watch out!!!!

So it'll get that live 'Midnight Rambler' tone?? That's one of my favorite live guitar tones....

$350 huh?? hmmm.....

[JPenn]

There is no way in hell any of the old Ampegs and Gibsons can sound anywhere near as good as old Fenders so you folks just hush up talkin bout'em!!!!;)

[mad dog]

telewacker:

You're definitely on to something. I'm jonesing for a Gemini w/15 inch speaker lately. Played a mint Gemini I recently. It has it's own sound, different than the BF and tweed tones, just as desireable at a fraction of the cost. A most pleasing clean ... distortion to my ears not quite up to my DR in that department, but YMMV. It's an inexplicably overlooked amp. I can only think that everyone who played them just had to move on up the the TR, so out they went. Had I not just picked up an old Gibson GA40, I would already have a Gemini.

Maybe my favorite Ampeg lately is the Mercury M-12. Pre-reverb, it's Ampegs take on the Tweed Deluxe. Wonderful sound!

I know of two Gemini Is locally (Montclair NJ) and one Mercury (not too far from here) at fair prices. Anybody interested, I'll point the way.

[DestroyAllGuitars]

MikeyG,

Mick Taylor - Ampeg VT40
Keith- Ampeg V4

Yes, I'm talkin' bout the midnight rambler.

[telewacker]

Originally posted by mad dog
telewacker:

A most pleasing clean ... distortion to my ears not quite up to my DR in that department, but YMMV. It's an inexplicably overlooked amp.

Maybe I just got a particulary good one, or maybe the one you tried wasn't up to snuff, but I'll put its distorted tone up against a Deluxe any day, and I've played a whole bunch of em. None of them were as smooth and rich as the Gemini, especially with the Tele's back pup. Stinging and sweet at the same time, like only a good Tele is capable of. Maybe it's the 7591s or the dinky OT. The bigger box definitely helps the low end, which isn't as flabby as a Deluxe either. I turn the volume all the way up, turn down the bass until the flub goes away, and the OD is divine. Make sure you try a better speaker than the stock one that comes with it.

It's a Gemini I, and it has the bright switches built into the treble controls. It also has a similar switch in the trem depth control, but the trem isn't working. The accordian input on the right hand channel is the way to go, on this unit anyway.

I bought another one on ebay that I should have shortly to compare, and to use on gigs where one ain't enough.

[MVrider]

Originally posted by MikeyG
So it'll get that live 'Midnight Rambler' tone?? That's one of my favorite live guitar tones....



No, it won't. The "Midnight Rambler" tone and the grindy mid-range comes from the V-series amps of the '70's NOT the blue-Tolex amps of the '60's. Two completely different amps.

[dangdog]

I have a Gemini (G-12) from about 1971, 12 inch speaker, somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 watts. I put an Eminence Legend speaker in it and it sounds like a million bucks. I love the sound of it. I have had a lot of Fenders, but I sure like this Ampeg. Unbelievably loud and clean, very tubey sounding. I tried Yellow Jackets in it with EL 84s, but it sounds better with the original spec tubes (7551?).

[telewacker]

Originally posted by dangdog
I have a Gemini (G-12) from about 1971, 12 inch speaker, somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 watts. I put an Eminence Legend speaker in it and it sounds like a million bucks. I love the sound of it. I have had a lot of Fenders, but I sure like this Ampeg. Unbelievably loud and clean, very tubey sounding. I tried Yellow Jackets in it with EL 84s, but it sounds better with the original spec tubes (7551?).

That's a different animal. The Gemini I is a 20 watt amp with 2-7591 output tubes. About the same volume as a Deluxe.

[jazzgitter]

Did'nt Steve Morse from the Dixie Dregs play an Ampeg? I always thought his tone was one of the fattest, richest tones I've ever heard. He plays his butt off too of course.


Steve

[Leonc]

For God's Sake: STOP TALKING ABOUT OLD AMPEGS!!! Shhhhhssh already!!!!

:mad: :FM











;)

[telewacker]

Originally posted by jazzgitter
Did'nt Steve Morse from the Dixie Dregs play an Ampeg? I always thought his tone was one of the fattest, richest tones I've ever heard. He plays his butt off too of course.


Steve

That's right. And Phil Brown gets one of the most monstrous grind tones in the known universe with a modern Lee Jackson Ampeg head driving a Marshall 8x10 cab with a Les Paul tuned down to B. Absolutely sick.

[valcotone]

Originally posted by mad dog
Maybe my favorite Ampeg lately is the Mercury M-12. Pre-reverb, it's Ampegs take on the Tweed Deluxe. Wonderful sound!

Yeah! :dude

I've got a 1961 Mercury M-12 with the 6V6s and it's a great amp. It sounded "ok" at home, but with the band at the last practice it was great. The overdrive was just killer!! Kept me smiling all night...

cheers,
Sean

[mad dog]

Telewacker:

My take on the Gemini I distortion character is certainly not definitive. I had all of 10 minutes to play with it. I know I could get all kinds of great sounds out of this amp, if I just had the time to mess around. BTW: Deluxe Reverb distortion is not necessarily self-explanatory either. It's taken me years of playing with tone and amp controls to find the perfect settings.

But distortion is not necessarily what I liked best about the Gemini 1. Thought the clean was the equal of anything I've ever heard, with beautiful reverb -- a tone with real character, very different from Fender blackface. Right there, that's reason enough to own one.

This amp sounds different to me than either the Mercury or the Reverborocket, both of which are a bit more in your face. I'd record with a Gemini anyday. Bet it would record well.

[Reactionjackson]

Originally posted by jazzgitter
Did'nt Steve Morse from the Dixie Dregs play an Ampeg? I always thought his tone was one of the fattest, richest tones I've ever heard. He plays his butt off too of course.


Steve

Didn't Jeff Beck as well? I have an old BBC video during the Blow by Blow era and he's using an Ampeg as well as a silverface. ;)

[DestroyAllGuitars]

There is no doubt that the Ampegs from the '60's & 70's were
great amps. These amps can be bought today for 300 to 700
dollars depending on the model, condition etc....

I hope the prices stay this reasonable. In fact I'm leaving shortly
to take a 1/2 hour drive where I'll be picking up a VT40 for
$450.00.

See what you have done to me!!!!!

[telewacker]

Originally posted by mad dog
Telewacker:

My take on the Gemini I distortion character is certainly not definitive. I had all of 10 minutes to play with it. I know I could get all kinds of great sounds out of this amp, if I just had the time to mess around. BTW: Deluxe Reverb distortion is not necessarily self-explanatory either. It's taken me years of playing with tone and amp controls to find the perfect settings.



For ten years I've tweaked my Deluxe, Mullard and Amperex pre amp tubes, various PI tubes, RCA, Silvania, JJ 6V6s, different speakers, etc. I got it to the point where it smoked every Deluxe I compared it to, quite a few were really good 60s era Blackfaces.

I plugged into the Gemini, played with the tone controls for two minutes, found I liked the treble maxed and the bass at nine o'clock, turned the volume up and that was that. My Deluxe is in a closet now.

[DestroyAllGuitars]

Telewacker,

I just went through extensive testing with 6 Blackface Deluxe
Reverb amps. I ended up ordering a Bruno Cowtipper 22, but
my Gemeni 1 will stay and I'm about to pick up an Ampeg VT40
today and this time I'll be sure not to part with it.

[mad dog]

Funny thing about the DR. Mine's been in the closet a few times. Almost sold it after I got a Gibson GA40, was enjoying that new flavor so thoroughly. Decided to put in a Weber speaker instead. Now the DR is definitely back on the scene. This amp sounds so good, especially with my G&L tele. Can't imagine not having it.

But definitely lusting after Ampegs.

[telewacker]

Interesting...mine is blues grind personified. That elusive blend of sweetness and nastiness that responds to right hand technique in an almost uncanny fasion. Definitely grinds more than my Deluxe, but smoother too. Absolutely no need for a pedal to push the front end.

[JDW3]

I picked up a '66 ReverberRocket and retubed it and installed a Weber Silver Bell. It's one of the best amps I have, recording or live. Perfect for blues gigs; I run the volume about on 10, treble on 9 and bass about 5. Gibson P-90s sound killer through it.

[57special]

Fav Ampegs (i've had a few.... aw..... let's face it, i've had em all);

-V2's and VT 40 from the 70's , both with and w/o MV, but before the distortion knob
- RR2's .... still have my 66, which is a beast... it's a legendary amp in my very small circle. Used to belonbg to an old montreal jazz guy, Nelson symonds, who bought it new. This amp will never leave me.
- All blue check Geminis, especially the Gemini 1 ,which is a bit less raspy sounding. There are 3 different versions of cabinets, which makes a difference in tone
- The late 60's early 70's G20, a 2 x10 combo made for only a little while.
- SVT, of course. Everyone needs to plug into one, it brings you a little closer to understanding omnipotence.
- Just about every portaflex ever invented. Currently have a little SB 12.... really loved my B15S years ago.
- Echo twins
- forget the m12's, get into the 50's ampegs! Thick chocolatey distortion completely different from a Fenders.
- 50's Bassamps. Kills with guitars. If it worked for Fender...
- 70's 4x12 bottoms
-70's 2x12 " (rare). Very small, all ply, and sound great!

on my to try list..
- late 60's copper panel ampegs
- early 90's VL series.

this things are just too cheap, and too plentiful!

[JakeELee]

Originally posted by CliffC
There is no doubt that the Ampegs from the '60's & 70's were
great amps. These amps can be bought today for 300 to 700
dollars depending on the model, condition etc....

I hope the prices stay this reasonable. In fact I'm leaving shortly
to take a 1/2 hour drive where I'll be picking up a VT40 for
$450.00.

See what you have done to me!!!!!

Eat your wheaties before you go, cuz those monsters are HEAVY. Totally worth it though...great amps. I love mine, welcome to the club. :cool:

[Leonc]

Ah yes, the VT40 was my very first amp. It was very heavy indeed. But that didn't stop some bastard from stealing it after I had it for about 8 months. :(





[subliminal suggestion]BTW, it was a horrid godawful excuse for an amp. I'm sure you will be very, very disappointed and will not rave about it here or anywhere's else on the Internet. You will hate it. Shhhhhhhh.....[/subliminal suggestion]

[57special]

Originally posted by 57special
Fav Ampegs (i've had a few.... aw..... let's face it, i've had em all);

-V2's and VT 40 from the 70's , both with and w/o MV, but before the distortion knob
- RR2's .... still have my 66, which is a beast... it's a legendary amp in my very small circle. Used to belonbg to an old montreal jazz guy, Nelson symonds, who bought it new. This amp will never leave me.
- All blue check Geminis, especially the Gemini 1 ,which is a bit less raspy sounding. There are 3 different versions of cabinets, which makes a difference in tone
- The late 60's early 70's G20, a 2 x10 combo made for only a little while.
- SVT, of course. Everyone needs to plug into one, it brings you a little closer to understanding omnipotence.
- Just about every portaflex ever invented. Currently have a little SB 12.... really loved my B15S years ago.
- Echo twins
- forget the m12's, get into the 50's ampegs! Thick chocolatey distortion completely different from a Fenders.
- 50's Bassamps. Kills with guitars. If it worked for Fender...
- 70's 4x12 bottoms
-70's 2x12 " (rare). Very small, all ply, and sound great!

on my to try list..
- late 60's copper panel ampegs
- early 90's VL series.

this things are just too cheap, and too plentiful!

Actually, now that i think on it, they are really not all that good, for some reason the thought has just come to me that they are a horrid godawful excuse for an amp. They were a great disappointment in many cases, and i think i hated them (why am i saying this)?
Anyway , this is the last time i ever talk about Ampegs on any internet chat forum, ever , again.... this is so strange, it doesn't even feel like it's me talking, it's more like something or someone has taken control of my brain...

[grantster]

I have a late 50's M-12 Mercury. Great little amp! Is this the amp that Peter Frampton likes, or was it a Gemini?

[Leonc]

It was neither. Frampton is a long-time Ampeg hater. And understandably, I might add.

[mad dog]

Harp players love the Mercury. It's right up there with the Tweed Deluxe in sound, and most players have never even seen one. The Mercury is as different from the later reverb Ampeg models as the tweed deluxe is to later blackface Fenders.

If I had the bucks, I'd own the Mercury, the Gemini I and II, plus a RR2.

[57special]

Originally posted by Leonc
It was neither. Frampton is a long-time Ampeg hater. And understandably, I might add.
I think he hated the Super Echo Twin

[hasserl]

I'm sure it's a great sounding amp, but it's not really comparable to a DR except maybe in size / power. It's probably closer to a PR in design w/ the cathodyne PI, but the baxandall tone stacks used are quite different than any Fender. And it's probably the strong mids from the bax combined with the grind from the cathodyne PI that you're digging so much. Probably more tweedish sounding than your DR.

I recently worked on an old Ampeg R15R Super Reverb for a friend, that is a great sounding amp also.

[telewacker]

The point was not that it was a Deluxe clone. The point was that it was more satisfying to play with a smoother OD and a perfect voicing for my Tele, even though the Tele-Deluxe combination is sort of a benchmark. I hear tweed in there. I like tweed.

[Lavely]

Alright, I'm interested! Sounds like the models to try are:

Gemini I or II
Mercury
Reverberocket

Aren't the V4s that the Stones used ungodly loud?

Any to stay away from?

Lavely

[hawkeyeinexile]

congrats, TW. Geminis are on my list, for sure. love my '61 Reverberocket.

my '61 was a little on the weak side, so i had Evan Aurand do his thing on it. made a great practice & recording amp. then since the orig. Jensen was a little on the clapped-out side, i pulled it & put in an Emi Private Jack (think Greenback on steroids) and it's been one of my gigging amps ever since.
:AOK

:cool:

[57special]

the RR2's (SS state recto) are a bit louder and brighter than the original RR's. Both amps benefit from a bright, clear , aggressive sounding speaker, IMO, rather than the stock , small magnet jensens(and i love jensens). I stuck an EVM on one side of an Echo Twin, and a V30 on the other (they are basically two amps in one box that can turned on singly or ganged together) and it really added punch and clarity to a somewhat murky sounding amp.

V4's are crazy loud, and a totally different type of amp from the blue check series. Even the V2's are really strong sounding, sorta similiar to the old Park 75 watt amps in volume.

[hawkeyeinexile]

well, not only that, but i was told the original Jensen Concert or whatever in my '61 is really only a 12w speaker. but it's in a 15w+ amp that gets cranked a lot. and reaches peak well before it's pegged. so another reason to go w/the Emi (50-75w speakers)

:cool:

[mothyham]

I have an ampeg g-20 the one they only made for a few years...
the speakers are kinda wonky and I was thinking of replacing them,...any suggestions?

[57special]

Celestion V10's, or Weber C10V's . I find a high wattage Celestion type speaker to be a perfect (and inexpensive) compliment to the 70's Amnpeg sound. One of THE all time great power tube crunch sounds, right up there with Hiwatt, marshall , etc. The only G20 i've ever played sounded great!

[Garygtr]

Originally posted by Leonc
It was neither. Frampton is a long-time Ampeg hater. And understandably, I might add.

Hmm...I thought the Ampeg Jet was his fave, thought I read somewhere that he still uses that a lot...Tonequest, maybe? Also, I believe Mike Campbell has done a lot of recording with an Ampeg, also a Jet I think.

[Leonc]

Originally posted by Garygtr
Hmm...I thought the Ampeg Jet was his fave, thought I read somewhere that he still uses that a lot...Tonequest, maybe? Also, I believe Mike Campbell has done a lot of recording with an Ampeg, also a Jet I think.

Shhhhhh....Ix-nay on all this Am-pay-eg-nay discussion, okay!!!???







some of us would like to see the prices stay down here in the troposphere (as in, less than 500 bux). Shhhhhhh!

[mad dog]

Sort of a late update to the Ampeg thread:

There's a local blues jam here where the guy who runs it brings 3 of his really cool amps along. He plays harp through an old Danelectro cloverleaf-cutout front, has an early 60's epiphone and a reverborocket for guitar players. All the other guit players love the Epi, as it wails. Me, I cannot get enough of the RR. Great slide amp with a tele. The reverb kills. The sound has an edge, sits dead center in the mix and can be heard out of proportion to the volume available. If you play this amp alone in your living room, it might sound a little thin and sharp. On stage, very different story. Roll off the treble a bit and it sustains so nicely. Gotta get me an Ampeg.

[telewacker]

Funny that your reply shows up now as my second Gemini I will be delivered via FedEx today. For those gigs where one simply ain't enough!!

[mad dog]

telewacker: I love old ampegs, but am not too sure of which one would be right for me. The Gemini I is such a great sounding amp. Will it be loud enough? The Gemini II through VI make me real curious, but I'll bet they're heavier than hell for the watts. I'd love to try an Echo Twin, but where can you find them?

The RR works really well, but I think it'd be a little quiet for many of the jams I play. Would the Gemini I be louder?

[Leonc]

I think any of the stock Geminis will be a little louder than any of the stock Reverb-e-Rockets. But not necessarily a lot louder. It's really too bad if you need more volume than that. But if you do...look for a VT22 (V4 in a 2x12 format) :).

[telewacker]

MD, There's an Echo Twin and a Gem I on ebay now.

I don't have any hands on experience with the other models. A bro who I trust says the Gem I is better than the RR and he has both.

I know the Gem II is a fixed, rather than cathode, biased design with more output and a larger OT. I would imagine part of what I like about the Gem I is the grind and compression from the cathode biasing and dinky OT.

It's important to upgrade the speaker with something more efficient than the original. I have a ceramic Blue Dog in mine but I'm going to try my current fav speaker, the Guytron Big Tone, in the new one. That goes a long way to making it appropriately loud for most smaller gigs, but there is not a lot of clean headroom, obviously. That's why I got two.

A Gem I with an efficient speaker would be louder than a RR with the stock speaker, I would imagine, and should be loud enough for the typical blues bar band.

I would recommend the Gem I personally, but not having owned the others I can't say for sure I wouldn't like them better. However my gut feeling is that the Gem I is the model that gets it right.

Here are two Ampegs on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7361998620&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7363624320&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

[enharmonic]

All amps kill if you get ahold of a cap that hasn't been properly discharged.

Always leave service to a qualified tech, especially if you don't know what you're doing...and often even when you have a pretty good idea.

:dude

[goodtone]

I have a Gemini II. When I was a kid my friend's band had a guitar player that played a Gemini II with a Fender Mustang and a Mosrite Fuzz. Great amp for blues, rock and cool Creedence tones. I think the reverb tones on some Ampegs are the best. Wish they'd reissue a separate reverb unit ala echo satellite model.

[telewacker]

Yeah the verb is one of the best, but I often turn it off. The amp sounds killer dry, and that's a testament to the depth and richness of the amps basic tone.

[57special]

Echo Twins are cool, but sound quieter than their wattage rating (30-35 watts), and tend to have microphonic pronblems with their 6sL7's when turned up. Reverb also gets a bit swampy when turned up. They are getting quite expensive, also.
Gemini I's are wonderful, underpriced amps, IMO. A bit louder than a RR2, with enough snarl to play blues, enough mellow to do ANY jazz gig, and the 12" speaker seems to cut better than the 15" speaker on the Gemini II's, V's, and VI's. The latter are also great amps, with a more dispersed sound than the Gemini I's.
I play a souped up RR2. Even before being tweaked, it was unusually loud and gainy. After trying all sorts of speakers, i ended up with a mid 60's Jensen Vibranto (a C12n, basically), as a beautiful sound when mated with my old strat, but if you want a bit more effiency and punch, a Celestion sounds great (I would imagine a Scumback 30 watt 75 HZ speaker would sound good). The stock Jensen speakers that come with the Ampegs sound terrific, but aren't that efficient, and fart out when volume is turned up. Great for home playing and recording , perhaps. Some Ampegs came stock with alnico JBL's. I'm not a fan of them, but many people are. It will take your amp to a different level of loudness and clarity. I used to pair an EV with a Vintage 30 in one of my Echo Twins. Great sound!

[telewacker]

The Gem1 I just got (my second) is VERY clean with original tubes, speaker (C12Q) and like 57 special says it sounds gorgeous with a clear, rich, bell-like tone at low volume, but the speaker folds up when you crank the amp. My other Gem1 has a ceramic Blue Dog and cranked it delivers a tremendous blues tone. I'm going to do a speaker shootout this week on the new amp...Blue Dog, 2 very different P12Ns, Black Back, and my favorite speaker to date (though I haven't tried it with an Ampeg), the Guytron 50 watt Big Tone.

I have a Bray modded 1959 100watt Plexi coming Wed. so it's a great week!

[57special]

I liked a 60's C12N better than 50's p12N's, Blues, other ceramic Celestions, and an EV type speaker. An healthy P12Q sounded very good also, and would've been my second choice.

[ToneChimera]

Anxiously waiting for your report. Have fun. :)

TC

[telewacker]

Big Tone it is. Everyone needs to hear these speakers.