Germino Club 40: Tight and punchy or soft and mellow?

[Myron Stratis]

I am very interested in the Club 40! With a clean tone and some pedals in front will it be punchy and tight or it is very soft and squishy sounding? Maby the Lead 55 series are better for tight and punchy tones?

[Marcello]

Myron, man, it's all in the fingers ya know :D

[Myron Stratis]

Originally posted by Marcello
Myron, man, it's all in the fingers ya know :D

I know (damn!:D ) What I had in mind is when I am playing open crunch chords an uncompressed tight tone. Will the Club 40 bite or sounds mellow and squishy?

[carlygtr56]

Originally posted by Myron Stratis
I know (damn!:D ) What I had in mind is when I am playing open crunch chords an uncompressed tight tone. Will the Club 40 bite or sounds mellow and squishy?



Straight Lead 55:D

[Myron Stratis]

Originally posted by carlygtr56
Straight Lead 55:D

Hi Carl! :) I thought about that, Graig Germino adviced my that for a pedal setup Club 40 is better, the JMP-style preamp has a higher clean headroom. What you have now is a 100-watter with a JMP preamp, right? What about a JMP preamp with a full 50 watt output? I am pretty sure that I would dig the 'sag' of the Club 40 for leads, what about high-gain rhythm?

[carlygtr56]

Originally posted by Myron Stratis
Hi Carl! :) I thought about that, Graig Germino adviced my that for a pedal setup Club 40 is better, the JMP-style preamp has a higher clean headroom. What you have now is a 100-watter with a JMP preamp, right? What about a JMP preamp with a full 50 watt output? I am pretty sure that I would dig the 'sag' of the Club 40 for leads, what about high-gain rhythm?


You mentioned tight and punchy, that's why I said the Lead 55.

I got the Classic 45 front end and Superbass values.

[Myron Stratis]

Originally posted by carlygtr56
You mentioned tight and punchy, that's why I said the Lead 55.

I got the Classic 45 front end and Superbass values.

I know... I am confused! I would order a Lead 55 normally but I do not know if the headroom of the amp allows me to have a loud clean tone (for using even delay for some sessions)! Do you think that Graig will make me a JMP preamp into a plexi-style 50 watt output? And what are these Superbass values? What do they make to amp tone-wise? Thanks Carl!:)

[carlygtr56]

Originally posted by Myron Stratis
I know... I am confused! I would order a Lead 55 normally but I do not know if the headroom of the amp allows me to have a loud clean tone (for using even delay for some sessions)! Do you think that Graig will make me a JMP preamp into a plexi-style 50 watt output? And what are these Superbass values? What do they make to amp tone-wise? Thanks Carl!:)


Loud and clean- 100 watts. End of story. If that's what you want, get a 100 watter. That's why they call it the
"Headroom"-100:D

Decide on what front end you like. You like tight agressive punchy that will come with the familiar Marshall high-mid spike? That would be a normal Headroom-100.
or, a more flatter response ? (Classic 45 front end)

I think you want a 100. Just a matter of deciding which front end you prefer.

[Myron Stratis]

Originally posted by carlygtr56
Loud and clean- 100 watts. End of story. If that's what you want, get a 100 watter. That's why they call it the
"Headroom"-100:D

Decide on what front end you like. You like tight agressive punchy that will come with the familiar Marshall high-mid spike? That would be a normal Headroom-100.
or, a more flatter response ? (Classic 45 front end)

I think you want a 100. Just a matter of deciding which front end you prefer.

100 watts? OMG!!!:D I think I will go for the pedal-friendly JMP front end. Can you tell me some classic recorded JMP tones?

[carlygtr56]

Originally posted by Myron Stratis
100 watts? OMG!!!:D I think I will go for the pedal-friendly JMP front end. Can you tell me some classic recorded JMP tones?


Myron, believe me, the Classic 45 (JTM-45) front end is extremely pedal friendly.....moreso, IMO, because of the flatter frequency response. You're not dealing with that hi-mid factor.
Whatever pedal I plug into my amp, becomes part of the amp.

Classic 45- Jimi early stuff, Cream
Superlead- Led Zep-Song Remains the Same type tone...rawer more aggressive.

[cocheese]

I get both tones out of my Club 40. At lower volumes it is soft but when you juice it up or put pedals in front of it, it gets nice and toothy. I also find that the EQ on the amp is voiced so well that you can really get lots of tones out of it. I've had Marshall style amps in the past that were really one trick ponies. The Club 40 is quite tuneable using only the EQ and volume controls. Sometimes I just plug into the treble channel, other times when I want more low end, I plug into both channels.

If you're using pedals, it just depends on the pedals I guess. With the front end on the Club 40, you're really going to have a blast with your pedals. The thing just eats 'em up! My Analogman Sun Face and Pro Analog Supa Quack both sound fantastic through the Club 40!

Another thing to consider with this amp is the fact that you can change out the preamp tubes to achieve different tones. Using my Tele with the stock TAD in V1 is my favorite so far, but Mullards, Amperex, and my other tubes sound very nice too. The TAD is higher gain than any of my other tubes and I like the nice edge that it has. When I'm in a different mood, I just pop in a different tube; it's that easy.

[Myron Stratis]

Originally posted by carlygtr56
Myron, believe me, the Classic 45 (JTM-45) front end is extremely pedal friendly.....moreso, IMO, because of the flatter frequency response. You're not dealing with that hi-mid factor.
Whatever pedal I plug into my amp, becomes part of the amp.

Classic 45- Jimi early stuff, Cream
Superlead- Led Zep-Song Remains the Same type tone...rawer more aggressive.

Thanks Carl! Your knowledge is really a big help for me my friend~!:)

[Myron Stratis]

Originally posted by cocheese
I get both tones out of my Club 40. At lower volumes it is soft but when you juice it up or put pedals in front of it, it gets nice and toothy. I also find that the EQ on the amp is voiced so well that you can really get lots of tones out of it. I've had Marshall style amps in the past that were really one trick ponies. The Club 40 is quite tuneable using only the EQ and volume controls. Sometimes I just plug into the treble channel, other times when I want more low end, I plug into both channels.

If you're using pedals, it just depends on the pedals I guess. With the front end on the Club 40, you're really going to have a blast with your pedals. The thing just eats 'em up! My Analogman Sun Face and Pro Analog Supa Quack both sound fantastic through the Club 40!

Another thing to consider with this amp is the fact that you can change out the preamp tubes to achieve different tones. Using my Tele with the stock TAD in V1 is my favorite so far, but Mullards, Amperex, and my other tubes sound very nice too. The TAD is higher gain than any of my other tubes and I like the nice edge that it has. When I'm in a different mood, I just pop in a different tube; it's that easy.

Great info, thanks!

[KLB]

Get a Club 40. It is a pretty loud amp with a stout pair of EL34.
If you want it even tighter, have Greg use a dual 50mf cap for the first two power supply sections (instead of stock dual 32mf). Also, have him use a solid state rectifier plug. This will increase plate volts to around 450 and get close to the L55 projection without sacrificing the warmth and versatility of the Club 40 preamp.

IMO, the output transformer sounds a little better in the C40, too.

Cheers,
Ken

[Myron Stratis]

Originally posted by KLB
Get a Club 40. It is a pretty loud amp with a stout pair of EL34.
If you want it even tighter, have Greg use a dual 50mf cap for the first two power supply sections (instead of stock dual 32mf). Also, have him use a solid state rectifier plug. This will increase plate volts to around 450 and get close to the L55 projection without sacrificing the warmth and versatility of the Club 40 preamp.

IMO, the output transformer sounds a little better in the C40, too.

Cheers,
Ken

Thanks Ken! The output transformer sounds better in the C40 than what?

[Kiwi]

Originally posted by Myron Stratis
What about a JMP preamp with a full 50 watt output?


Greg built me a Club 40 with a JMP50 front end for a lot of balanced cleans, then a 50w transformer for a Plexi style output section. It's a new Heyboer repro that's a dead-nuts Drake copy.

I have used a 5V4 rectifier for some sag, a GZ34 for a stiffer feel, and then a SS rectifier plug-in for even more headroom and a very quick attack.

Enormously flexible amp.

Kiwi

[dookie]

Myron,

Haven't read all the posts here but if you are considering a pedal, I highly recommend the Menatone Kar Krash... The most open sounding, amp like, transparent, non compressed distortion pedal on the market today IMHO... It's modeled after the Komet 60 amp... It's amazing... I'm GASsing for one...

Other than that, have you tried the Masonette?? 25 watts... Killer killer amp... Next to the Classic 45, it's my fave Germino... I've played the head and the 1X12 combo... The combo was killer and pretty loud... Takes well to pedals also...

[Richards]

Ela re Malaka ti kaves??

[carlygtr56]

Originally posted by dookie
Myron,

Haven't read all the posts here but if you are considering a pedal, I highly recommend the Menatone Kar Krash... The most open sounding, amp like, transparent, non compressed distortion pedal on the market today IMHO... It's modeled after the Komet 60 amp... It's amazing... I'm GASsing for one...

Other than that, have you tried the Masonette?? 25 watts... Killer killer amp... Next to the Classic 45, it's my fave Germino... I've played the head and the 1X12 combo... The combo was killer and pretty loud... Takes well to pedals also...


What's really amazing is the guy is looking for an amp with headroom, and you recommend the Germino with the least amount of headroom. Beyond that you recommend a pedal to turn his amp into a fake Komet:confused: :confused: :confused:

[Myron Stratis]

Originally posted by Richards
Ela re Malaka ti kaves??

??? :confused: :D

[KLB]

Originally posted by Myron Stratis
Thanks Ken! The output transformer sounds better in the C40 than what?

Using the same tube set, the Club 40 output transformer sounds a little better than the one used in the LV55 (same as the Lead 55). But then, I'm also being influenced by the differences in the Club 40 vs. LV55 circuit as well. This is subjective, of course. I like the overtones and "spectrum" of the CL40 just a little better.

I still own an LV55, and have it setup with 6V6 and a 5U4 rectifier. Setup this way, it is a bit louder than a Masonette, which I sold after getting the Club 40.

[hipfan]

Tight and punchy 50 watter?

You need a Hiwatt! :D

[Moods]

Originally posted by KLB
Get a Club 40. It is a pretty loud amp with a stout pair of EL34.
If you want it even tighter, have Greg use a dual 50mf cap for the first two power supply sections (instead of stock dual 32mf). Also, have him use a solid state rectifier plug. This will increase plate volts to around 450 and get close to the L55 projection without sacrificing the warmth and versatility of the Club 40 preamp.

IMO, the output transformer sounds a little better in the C40, too.

Cheers,
Ken

+1

That OT sounds "right" in an old Marshall sorta way. And yes, the C40 is really pedal friendly. Don't forget about the C45 with an 8 ohm speaker load. It's right there with the C40 and just as pedal friendly.

Isn't the C40 front end the same as a JTM 45? not a JMP? I thought the Lead 55 came with a JMP front end. I know my C40 has a JTM front end but maybe it's a funky one



<M

.

[KLB]

Originally posted by Moods
+1

That OT sounds "right" in an old Marshall sorta way. And yes, the C40 is really pedal friendly. Don't forget about the C45 with an 8 ohm speaker load. It's right there with the C40 and just as pedal friendly.

Isn't the C40 front end the same as a JTM 45? not a JMP? I thought the Lead 55 came with a JMP front end. I know my C40 has a JTM front end but maybe it's a funky one



<M

.

Perhaps "kindburro" Greg G. will chime in here.

I believe the standard C40 front end is the same as a JTM-45 (well almost, Greg does it a little different). Yes, the L55 is essentially the JMP front-end.

The C40 is most like a '67 JTM-50.

[kindburro]

The preamp section of the Classic 45 and the Club 40 are the same with the cathodes shared, v1a and v1b. This is the JTM-45 style preamp.

The Lead 55 and Lead 55LV as well as the Masonette use the later style preamp with split cathode. This later style preamp is often referred to as a JMP style.

The shared cathode preamp section was used exclusively with the earlier circuit values which are, .022 coupling caps for both V1A and V1B plates going into volume control for CH 2 and CH 1 respectivly.
250pf cap and 56K slope resistor for tone control network.
.1uf coupling caps in output section.

The split cathode preamp was always used in conjunction with the later circuit, specified as a "Lead" circuit (50 watter) or "Super Lead" (100 watter) which is that V1B plate feeds into a .0022 coupling cap for CH1, V1A side stays at .022 for CH2.
Tone control network is 500pf cap and 33k slope resistor.
.022 coupling caps in output stage.


Fact is that early Mars hall amps all used the early circuit and pre amp section as found in the JTM-45. This was true for all models untill say early/mid 68 when you begin to see specific changes for models intended for "lead" amps (50 watters) or "Super Lead" amps (100 watters) So you really can't seperate the two circuits by saying one is JTM and the other is JMP.
Early circuit would refer to what was used in the JTM-45. Later this model evolved by changes in output tubes, output transformer, and filtering into the JTM-50 and then further evolved by switching to ss rectifier from GZ-34. By then the front panels said JMP, yet we are still referring to the JTM-45 circuit and shared cathode.

I won't get into other subtlies such as values of NFB resistor, when V2A cathode was bypassed or not, different filtering values, etc.

Kiwi's amp is a stock Club 40 essentially but with our HV power transfomer and the ability to run either a GZ-34 or ss plug in module. Essentially what could be typical of a late 67 or early 68 JMP. (that is with the ss rectifier installed)

The Club 40 O/T is a direct replica of an early Drake 784-139 O/T used during the plexi panel period up into the metal panel period. This tranny is interleaved in the exact same fashion as the original.

This would be the same setup I would suggest for Myron.
Adding a bit more filtering in the first two power suppy stages would stiffen things up even more. I like the amp filtered as is but with the ss rectifier. Nice and snappy this way and great pick attack. I also like the additional voltage supplied by the HV P/T.

The Club 40 in stock form with the lower voltage P/T and GZ-34 makes the amp more friendly for smaller to mid sized rooms, shes still plenty loud this way!

Certainly the shared cathode preamp a la JTM-45 gives an amp a smoother transition thru the variations of clean to crunch to overdrive and thus works better as a foundation for pedals.

Best to all,
Greg G.

[hipfan]

Yes, but where's the detailed information everyone's looking for?! :D Wow, that's some comprehensive and clearly stated information. Thanks Greg.

By the way, I'm still loving my Tone Machine No. 005 that you built for Mojo back in the old days. What a sleeper of an amp! When plugged into a pair of Blue Dog and Governor loaded 2x12's, it conveniently forgets that it's a white tolex 2x10 combo with strange red grill cloth. :)