recommended luthiers who make short scale guitars?

[ripoffriffs]

For reasons I don't have time to get into now, but I need to be playing shorter scale guitars for less tension.

Can someone recommend any guitar makers that build guitars with scale length of less than 24.75"? Maybe along the lines of 24", 24.24", 24.5", or 24.625?

I know about the PRS Santana's (24.5"). But I would like to hear about alternatives before I decide to buy that.

Can be hand made or machine made as long as it is high quality and price reflects manufacturing technique.

I'd lke to hear from luthiers themselves who normally make guitars of short scale length.

Thank you.

[wsaraceni]

Originally posted by ripoffriffs

I know about the PRS Santana's (24.5"). But I would like to hear about alternatives before I decide to buy that.



now why would you need to go and do something like that :D

[trisonic]

Chapin Guitars.

I think Bill will make them down to 24".


Best, Pete.

[decay-o-caster]

Originally posted by trisonic
Chapin Guitars.

I think Bill will make them down to 24".


Best, Pete.

Will and has.

[cnardone]

Call Bill, hes got me dreaming of a short scale guitar too.

cmn

[hawkeyeinexile]

Bill Chapin made the 24"-scale "Rustic" Hawk, which Amitar now owns. my new Devil Dog will be 24" scale. he has made shorter-scaled guitars, too.

:cool:

[AJ Love]

anyone else? nothing at all against Chapin, just wondering about options

Suhr's website mentions being able to do different scale lengths "by summer" but doesn't specify what

[Saul Koll]

I can make you a real short one!:D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/Saul-Koll/DAngeuke.jpg

[Ian Anderson]

Saul that DA inspired tenor guitar is bad! :dude

[Saul Koll]

thanks Ian!


I bet if you were to ask, most builders will accomodate your wishes.

Good luck!

Saul

[Glowing Tubes]

Tom Anderson Cobra. You would have a difficult time finding a better playing guitar. So smooth and the short scale makes it near effortless to play. Loaded with a HB and two M's you would be in sonic heaven as well.:AOK

Good luck with your search!

Richard

[ToneGurus]

24.65

http://www.tonegurus.com/assets/images/chapinsigburt.jpg
Mike

[FPicker]

Bumping this, as recent report of Ron Kirn Jaguar got me interested.
Do any of the small shops make a 24" - 24.5" scale length guitar as part of their regular offerings?

Most of the suggestions people give to this question are for gibson 24-3/4" length, which is not on-point. Chapin has been cited, but his website lists shortest optional length = 24-5/8".

I'm talking Mustang/ Jaguar scale here.

These seem to have gotten more popular, as Fender has had a number of reissues.
But there should be other makers to choose from at the high end, as there are for the 24-3/4" and 25/5" scale length guitars. Anybody else doing it now?

[Marty s Horne]

Fender Mustangs and Jaguars are short scale as are Gibson Byrdlands and ES 350s.

[FPicker]

Thank you for this information.

By the way, do you know of any small shops/ luthiers who are routinely making guitars with scale length 24" to 24.5" ??

[Ron Kirn]

whatcha lookin' for?

Ron Kirn

[supersonic1414]

Yeah, Ron Kirn just made me a 24 inch scale Jaguar (historically correct as they would say)...He can probably do whatever you need...

[FPicker]

whatcha lookin' for?

Ron Kirn

I am looking for the identify of the small shops who have developed "standard" models available in 24" +-.5" scale length, as alternatives to Fender Mustang and Jaguar short-scale guitars. So that I can look at their websites, get an idea of what''s out there and readily available in this scale length. What they look like, options, etc. To see if something already out there strikes my fancy, and to help generate ideas.

Ideally I would like to find several small shop websites that each have a model one can click on featuring a 24' scale length guitar that they offer as a standard product, with various options available.

Right now the only supplier who offers such guitars as "standard" models that I know of, below the very low end, is Fender, basically. (ok and yes, Gibson Byrdland, PRS Santana & SC245, Brian May)

It occurred to me that, if there are 600,000 Telecaster alternatives floating around by innumerable non-Fender shops, there should be at least a couple Mustang or Jaguar alternatives floating around, in production by someone other than Fender. Or else short-scales are an underserved market.

I am not in transaction mode currently, this is for future planning and help in developing specifications and getting ideas for the future. Of course in an ideal world I would love to scroll on something on a website and find the guitar that I obviously want.

Moreover this information if documented here can serve as a resource for the benefit of other readers of this thread, past (such as the OP), present and future.

I would love to be able to go to the websites of suhr, collings, anderson, whoever, find a shortscale guitar (meaning 24" - 24.5")that they offer, and check it out. what I am looking for is the identity of the small shops who are offering such instruments, so I can look them over.

Then maybe if I know the maker(s) and the model(s) i can actually go to a high-end boutique guitar shop who is a dealer for them and actually see and play one, to see if I really like it in real life, rather than theory.

I've seen plenty of small shop guitars around this way, but not short scales thus far. Hence my question.

[jakes guitars]

Ive done as short as 22and 3/4" (for my sons guitar) I have actually been toying with the idea of something closer to 24". I was going to make the body slightly smaller too though.(Again, with younger players in mind.)

[Ron Kirn]

The reason there aren’t many/any luthiers with such info listed on their sites is that doing something like that is so rare.

Few, if any would have little motivation to build one on “spec” simply to list it, because it would be darn near impossible to sell. Further, to make something like that is very time consuming, eating the time several more “normal” guitars would take to complete, so while killing time making something so few want, they would not be using that time filling viable orders. This it’s just not an efficient use of shop time.

What I would suggest is, contact a luthier, ask if he makes whatever you are looking for in whatever scale, and proceed. If you want some completely “off the wall” scale, expect to be turned down out right. Also expect a number of other “caveats” tied to the agreement. Inordinately high costs should be anticipated too. You aren’t just buying a guitar, you will be paying for the luthier to make all the necessary templates, etc., which will be used one time.

It is not uncommon for guys to request prices on hopelessly bazaar guitars then get offended that they can cost considerably more than something more conventional. This is why a “one of” prototype of about anything is incredibly expensive but the “production” version can be so reasonably priced.

Ron Kirn

[Chris Rice]

On the other hand, a shop set up to do the bizarre already wouldn't have a s much difficulty with it, and can thus do it at a better price point. If you're locked into tele clones with aftermarket necks, trying to do something else can be a stretch.

http://ricecustomguitars.com/instruments/images/130_3.JPG

[David Myka]

My shop is another one that does things in a custom fashion for each instrument. That means that it will not cost more for a custom scale length. I have designed adjustable templates for pickup routing, neck pocket routing, etc that accommodate any scale length and positioning that I need. I do this so that I can offer a true custom guitar without having to charge for unique templates each time. That is wasteful and cost prohibitive in all but the most extreme designs. In my shop simply changing the scale length is exercising your included custom options. Email me if you want to discuss something in more detail.

~David

[FPicker]

On the other hand, a shop set up to do the bizarre already wouldn't have as much difficulty with it, and can thus do it at a better price point.

Yes, but also I was thinking more along the lines of a shop that's set up to make guitars like I'm talking about already, with templates already in place. Theoretically there may be some learning curve that could help the consumer, either with price, or performance, or relief from specification errors, or certainty of what they are getting, or all of the above. In a perfect world I would rather be the beneficiary of this learning curve, rather than the guinea pig.

Some of the above is no doubt why some people choose to order strat and tele -like guitars from small production shops vs. getting one completely made from scratch by an individual . They could always do the latter, but many with a choice buy from the small shops. Others don't. There's a world of choices, I was just wondering what that range of choices looks like in the short scale arena.

I wouldn't have thought this is so "bizarre", I thought there were plenty of Mustangs and Jaguars et. al. around, with a sort of revival among new adult players these days; Fender certainly has come out with several variants in recent years and does business with them in their custom shop. There are at least three discussion sites on the web that involve them either directly or substantially.

There certainly wouldn't be room for the whole world to be making Jaguar competitors, but I would have thought there's enough for a couple guys to make a market in it, instead of leaving it all to Fender. Much less demand, true, but also few suppliers. In fact, maybe Fender is being given a near-complete monopoly.

But if I'm wrong, and Jaguars et al are actually deemed "bizzarre" by all makers, then that's an answer to my question. Then it comes back more to the OPs question about which individual luthiers have actual experience having made such instruments as unique one-offs, rather than as "production models" with options.

Certainly assessing guitar submarket supply and demand is not my area. I just play them, badly.

I would be surprised if an attractive spec guitar along these lines made by a known, quality luthier would really be "near-impossible to sell". If that were the case, Fender couldn't be selling their presumably "worse" versions. I guess this question goes back to the notion of whether a Jaguar or Mustang variant is something to be deemed "bizarre". As opposed to a high-quality variant of a recognized commodity with established commercial demand (at some level). Which is not to say that I'd buy it myself necessarily, to be clear, but I'd think somebody would, instead of placing a Custom Shop order or buying a "thin skin" which maybe has features they don't want. Assuming it's done well. In same fashion, I imagine people buy spec strat variants.

But again, this is not my business so I defer to those more knowledgeable.

[Chris Rice]

You must remember that a large chunk of the smaller shops building teles and strats are using aftermarket necks and bodies and there aren't many options from the parts suppliers. Warmoth and USACG? It's been a few years since I looked.

It's not really bizarre, just off the beaten path. I'm sure there's a demand, but in 4 years and 152 guitars to date, I've quoted for one short scale build (22.5") and built none. My wife considered going 23-1/2" scale when we were designing her newest guitar, but chose 24-5/8" instead. It's fairly easy for us to change scale length on a build.

Being setup like David Myka with adjustability built in is a great way to go, and you're not a guinea pig. It sounds similar to our method.

[big mike]

Chapin Guitars.

I think Bill will make them down to 24".


Best, Pete.

Will and has.

Mmmmm. Rustic Hawk.......:bow

[FPicker]

It's not really bizarre, just off the beaten path. I'm sure there's a demand, but in 4 years and 152 guitars to date, I've quoted for one short scale build (22.5") and built none.

Could that possibly be because the pool of people who might want this type of instrument are not aware of other active makers in this product class, who have built a number of just such an instrument, so never think to ask others, but just reluctantly trudge over the the fender custom shop, or are forced to badly mod their own guitars????

If it was known that there was a high quality maker actually making such guitars, I would think that would get some buzz on the relevant websites and then that maker would be quoting, and building, more than one such instrument in 4 years. Because evidently nobody else is doing it and he'd be the sole high-end alternative provider to Fender in this line. Versus being one of 600,000 alternatives to Fender in Telecasters.

That assumes there's some demand for such guitar in the first place. Again, I would have thought there was, and it is not so "bizarre" actually. But maybe I'm mistaken about that.

It would probably require a spec build to get something like this started I guess, unless the right few custom orders happen to come along. (Which, per first paragraph, is not so likely to happen; chicken and egg problem). In other words, someone has to decide they want this line as part of their business, and develop it accordingly, putting in the R&D, new ideas. And maybe it's not worth it or too risky, again I defer. I just would have thought someone would be doing it.

[Ron Kirn]

That assumes there's some demand for such guitar in the first place.Therein lays the rub.... as Chris said, quote one in 4 years. . . build zip.... that kinda says it... I get a lotta requests for strange stuff, that simply never materializes... nothing happens until money changes hands..

I have done a few at 24 inches, but that's hardly far off the beaten path. Most, when guessing what people won't be ordering, don't get setup for it anyway.

Also, to echo Chris, those that are tied to outsourcing (aftermarket) components, would be like a Deer in the headlights if you request something simply not available from their sources.

I generally have a pretty "full plate" and when things get slack, i'm doing Barn Busters. I did 27 guitars this month, that's pretty busy. Thus something that deviates from the "norm" can put a "hitch" in the work flow.

If you have specifics, contact the luthiers of your choice, get bids, or rejections, and proceed from there. But don't think less of any builders simply because they don't show some unique feature you feel would be desirable on their websites. It’s much like any sales. Back before the economy took a nose dive, Ford salesmen usually made more than Mercedes salesmen, ya sell a lot more of the Fords than ya do the Mercs.. Take the Barn Busters… I knew there was a market for a pretty darn good Tele type made of century old wood, and a few choices. So I started producing them. What if I decided there was a market for a 7 pickup guitar shaped like Miss Kitty’s butt, with a baritone neck… I’d probably still have a bunch around. :huh

As always, there are Ferraris and Fords, and, actually, they both do what they are designed for quite well.

Ron Kirn

[supersonic1414]

Well said Ron!!! Now as for baritone guitars with strange pick ups and odd body shapes....I think I need to get you crackin on my Bass VI :)

[respects1]

roger giffin's usual scale is 24 3/4, but i'm pretty sure he could downsize even that for you. you'd have to wait @ 6 months if you custom ordered but you would receive one of the finest instruments available to mankind, or you could purchase one at the few retailers that sell his guitars.

[73171]

For reasons I don't have time to get into now, but I need to be playing shorter scale guitars for less tension.

Can someone recommend any guitar makers that build guitars with scale length of less than 24.75"? Maybe along the lines of 24", 24.24", 24.5", or 24.625?

I know about the PRS Santana's (24.5"). But I would like to hear about alternatives before I decide to buy that.

Can be hand made or machine made as long as it is high quality and price reflects manufacturing technique.

I'd lke to hear from luthiers themselves who normally make guitars of short scale length.

Thank you.


24.625? Terry McInturff's Carolina and Gemini models. (see the Destroy All Guitars website)

[johneeeveee]

If you can handle going to 24 3/4" Joe Yanuziello does those stock, but would do a custom shorter scale as well:
http://www.yanuziello.com/electricGuitars/indexEguitar.html

[FPicker]

IIRC 24-5/8" and 24-3/4" were the traditional "standard" (not short) scales of Gretsch and Gibson, respectively, I imagine there are numerous guitars that can readily be found at these scale lengths, no need for a special dedicated thread if these are what you're after, IMO. It's below these, at the Jaguar range, that the suppliers seem to vanish. While at the same time Fender is currently making at least seven different variants in this scale length.

[hawkeyeinexile]

Mmmmm. Rustic Hawk.......:bow

and i've got the Devil Dog (24", 5.5 lbs). definitely Chapin should be considered. he's also done 23.5" IIRC and that Requinta (?) for Tim Volpicella, which is real d@#n short, uke concert sized, but a guitar tuned a 1/5 higher

:cool:

[big mike]

Ahhh I forgot about your Devil Dog Jeff. because I haven't played it.
Overdue for a bay area get together.

[hawkeyeinexile]

Ahhh I forgot about your Devil Dog Jeff. because I haven't played it.
Overdue for a bay area get together.

yeahman...

btw Bill made a guitar for one customer that was s'posed to be same scale as Fender Mustang or Musicmaster or Duosonic or something, which would be 22.5"

:cool:

[FPicker]

As always, there are Ferraris and Fords, and, actually, they both do what they are designed for quite well.

Ron Kirn

Well said Ron!!!

Wait a second .. he just essentially said he delivered you a "Ford" (ie his opinion of a "bizarre" short scale guitar e.g. jaguar, as opposed to "Ferrari" Telecaster scale), and you're saying that was well said??????

Or perhaps he meant something else by that comment, that you both understand but I don't.

I would have thought a good Jaguar-scale guitar can be a "Ferrari" in its own right, but then I just dont understand what analogy that sentence is intended to be making.

Regarding all the Chapin cites, it's curious but when you go to his website there is no reference whatsoever to his employing these scale lengths, and he does not even include them in his options lists. IMO that is not the best strategy for drumming up repeat business of this type. More like he doesn't want such business. I'd have thought since he actually had already worked them out before he wouldn't mind making it known, particularly since virtually nobody else has, and it would not be as big an effort for him to make some more of the same. But evidently not. Else he would make mention of them.

[hawkeyeinexile]

...
Regarding all the Chapin cites, it's curious but when you go to his website there is no reference whatsoever to his employing these scale lengths, and he does not even include them in his options lists....

Bill's website is out of date & if you call him, he'll acknowledge that. Pref is to refer to a couple representatives' sites:

http://destroyallguitars.com/chapin/115-chapin-custom-instruments
http://tonegurus.com/html/body_hawks___others.html

both of whom are TGPers, too

btw, here's a (somewhat compressed) pic of the Devil Dog:
http://rjsanders.com/pix/ddog-front.jpg



:cool:

[cnardone]

IIRC 24-5/8" and 24-3/4" were the traditional "standard" (not short) scales of Gretsch and Gibson,

Actually, Gibson is 24 -5/8 as well. Not sure why some people call it 3/4.

cmn

[Chris Rice]

I like the Devil Dog.
:beer

[supersonic1414]

[QUOTE=FPicker;6526369]Wait a second .. he just essentially said he delivered you a "Ford" (ie his opinion of a "bizarre" short scale guitar e.g. jaguar, as opposed to "Ferrari" Telecaster scale), and you're saying that was well said??????



Umm, no.....This is the quote I was referring too when I said "well said",
and if you had read my whole post, you would have understood that...

"If you have specifics, contact the luthiers of your choice, get bids, or rejections, and proceed from there. But don't think less of any builders simply because they don't show some unique feature you feel would be desirable on their websites. It’s much like any sales. Back before the economy took a nose dive, Ford salesmen usually made more than Mercedes salesmen, ya sell a lot more of the Fords than ya do the Mercs.. Take the Barn Busters… I knew there was a market for a pretty darn good Tele type made of century old wood, and a few choices. So I started producing them. What if I decided there was a market for a 7 pickup guitar shaped like Miss Kitty’s butt, with a baritone neck… I’d probably still have a bunch around. :huh"
and if you had read my whole post, you would have understood that

[FPicker]

my mistake, sorry.
Actually that was a singularly poor attempt at reading comprehension on my part, glad I wasn't sitting for the GRE's yesterday. Must have been in a (huge) rush.

[hawkeyeinexile]

I like the Devil Dog.
:beer

thanks, Chris, i've admired your stuff, too. The dawg started as a luv thang for the Rustic Hawk (Tonegurus link, 2nd one down on the right). looking for something to rival my long lost '68 LP Custom, too. it's mostly Spanish cedar, with a quilted mahogany top. Chapin Beelzebucker in the neck (w/coil tap), WCR Fillmore in the bridge.

:cool:

[FPicker]

Actually, Gibson is 24 -5/8 as well. Not sure why some people call it 3/4.

cmn

In my case, it's true, I never measured, but I call it 24-3/4" because my recollection was Gibson called it 24-3/4", and, perhaps naively, I assumed that it was what they said it was.

To test my recollection I just went to the Gibson web site and put in "scale length" in the search feature. Bingo, 24-3/4", all over the place.

So I called it that because I'd no reason to doubt Gibson's word on it, and don't know otherwise myself. But that's just me, I can't speak for why some other people call it 24-3/4".

[hawkeyeinexile]

...
So I called it that because I'd no reason to doubt Gibson's word on it, and don't know otherwise myself. But that's just me, I can't speak for why some other people call it 24-3/4".

apparently there have been some variation over the years @ Gibson. here's some input for consideration: http://www.stewmac.com/fretscales

:cool:

[supersonic1414]

my mistake, sorry.
Actually that was a singularly poor attempt at reading comprehension on my part, glad I wasn't sitting for the GRE's yesterday. Must have been in a (huge) rush.

Haha...Been there:banana

[kja]

fano has a new mustang copy coming out, you might wanna check that out. it looked pretty cool.

[decay-o-caster]

Hmmm... Maybe a baritone Mustang... Yeah - that'd be way cool! ;)

[cnardone]

apparently there have been some variation over the years @ Gibson. here's some input for consideration: http://www.stewmac.com/fretscales

:cool:
Learn something new everyday. Really interesting. I wonder why the changes were made. Anyone have any info on that?

[big mike]

Going to have to point out to folks not to spam their wares in the discussion area. Not cool.

[dorfmeister]

Anybody making guitars inspired by the Jaguar or Mustang?

[SilentRadio]

This guy http://www.sign-guitars.de/ has his "own" T-Type with shorter Scale. Guess he can do anything you're looking for. All from scratch...saw it with my own eyes, but haven't played one yet.

[Tomo]

Chapin Guitars.

I think Bill will make them down to 24".


Best, Pete.

His guitars are great! Hope someone can make 22.5" guitar like Duo Sonic.

Tomo

[ripoffriffs]

Ron Thorn has answered my demand for a short-scale (24.75") with tremolo:

http://www.thornguitars.com/galleryhtm/dc189.htm

Best thing I've ever bought in my life. Nothing comes close to the playability & Quality of this thing!

[wizard333]

Hamer USA.

[dzo]

The Lentz Croyden is a 24.625 scale set neck.

If it's ever been requested, John Bolin has built it.

[ghoti]

You can get mini-sized from major manufacturers...but that's probably not what you're after.

Brian May Guitars are 24" in scale and can do a whole lot more than just Queen.

I'd never buy a short-scale guitar; if you saw me in person you'd understand why...