Marshall 18 watt HW and others

[larrylover]

At the local GC, I played a Marshall handwired 18 watt combo with a single celestion g12m speaker this afternoon. Also in the room, a used Gibson 30 combo with two celestion vintage 30's in it (sorry I can't remember the exact name of the Gibson. This is a recent amp -- made during the 21st century, I think custom shop amps, and I think they have been recently discontinued) and a used Dr. Z Maz Jr.

I was very excited to play the Marshall. It had "high" and "low" inputs. The low input had a single tone control and a volume control. the high imput had a single tone control and a volume control and two tremolo controls -- speed and intensity.

Maybe I expected too much. It was a very one trick pony. (Used a LP with humbuckers). Cleans were very very ordinary, maybe even less than that. The only thing that made the cleans listenable was using the tremolo which was nice sounding so long as the speed was below 5. And the cleans didn't last very long. The bluesy dirt was also ho-hum. The only time the amp gave up anything to recommend it was when the the tone and volume controls on the high input were dimed. At that point the amp allowed a bit of sustain and some Marshall squawk. But that was about it. Opened up like that all notes on the E-D strings were muddy. No thump. I found it seriously lacking inspiration. I would say I need a 50 watter to get my heart beating but Mr. Z ghia, Alessandro Beagle and the Maz Jr., at the risk of skipping ahead, showed this not to be the case. The Marshall is just an ordinary, ordinary amp at extraordinary prices.

The Gibson was far more interesting. A 4 XEl84 amp, it had nice vox-style cleans, and vox-style overdrive with the bright switch on and plugged into "high" input. With the bright switch and plugged into the "low' input, had a nice fender-style clean, but not the shimmer that you get with black face. Very good for funk stuff.

The maz jr. was the best. Inspiring cleans and nice dirt and great overdrive. lack of time prevents me from going into more detail. Great master volume. Very nice amp.

[dbeeman]

Has exactly the same experience at another store

the 18 just don't excite me. Not bad, but my Aiken trumps it in every way

[DestroyAllGuitars]

Don't feel bad about the 18watter. It was a failure for Marshall
the 1st time around, and they have only re-introduced it to cash
in on the stupid runaway buzz that has been created as of late.
The original 18 watter was a bad copy of the 17watt Watkins
Dominator which is the amp you hear on all the early classic
British invasion group's albums. By the time Marshall introduced
their 18 watter, all the British players had their Watkins and the
US market was more interested in the heavier sounds of Jimi etc...
Thus the El34 based amps took off here and the lowly 18 watter was abandoned.

There is nothing wrong with the sound of a low powered EL84
based circuit, in fact there are many incredible ones available.
I have a few of them that I love. I just think it's silly that so
many people are overpaying for the mythical "incredible
Marshall 18watter". It's one thing if you truly like the tone of
the 18watt Marshall, but I know that many have been sold based
solely on a myth.

Why clone a mistake when you could use that time to create
a new success?

[DannyDay]

Add one more to the list...

Perhaps I tested a faulty one, but I wasn't all that thrilled with the 18 watter ot the 20 for that matter. I just coudn't coax any of that Marshall goodness out of it. It just had that high-mid spike without the phatness.

I suspect the amp was an anomaly. I'll try again next time.

DD.

[GDS Racing]

This may sound funny but don't judge all 18 watt amps by the Marshall reissue.

[tombo]

I love the 18 watt Marshall! So much so, I bought it. For any of you considering buying an 18 watt handwired amp, consider it. As I said in another post, tone is subjective. It may not be your cup of tea, and if it's not your idea of a good 18 watt amp, then fine. We're lucky in that we're not only in a golden age of guitar building, but also amp building. There are plenty of makers out there, go and find the one that builds **your** idea of the ideal 18 watt amp.

In the meantime, there's no need to slog the Marshall HW 1974X through the mud. Guitar Ampifier Magazine article on the Marshall 1974X (http://www.guitaramplifiermagazine.com/pub/2005/premier_issue/marshall-18-2.htm)

edited to add: I've tried the GDS amps here in Japan before making my purchase. To be fair, it was made from a kit, and not wired by GDS.

[larrylover]

It may not be your cup of tea, and if it's not your idea of a good 18 watt amp, then fine. We're lucky in that we're not only in a golden age of guitar building, but also amp building.

No question that we are in the midst of tremendous golden age of guitar and amp building. There is tremendous variety and quality at all price points. And, yes, reasonable minds can differ on sound preference. I know what I heard, however. And having played a number of amps by many perpetrators of the golden age -- Dr. Z, Alessandro, Aiken, Blues Peal, Maven Peal, custom shop Fender -- all I can say is that there is no reason at all to have any bias towards Marshall. At least on this model. None.

[tombo]

Originally posted by larrylover
all I can say is that there is no reason at all to have any bias towards Marshall. At least on this model. None.

I don't understand what you mean here. Can you clarify it? I'm not being silly here. Do you mean "Hey if you like it, go for it!" or do you mean "the other 18 watt amps I tried destroy that amp so stay away from it like the plague."

edited to add: When I used a *beautiful* new Tokai Les Paul copy through the Marshall 1974X (I'm lucky enough to live really close to the Tokai factory and my friend's shop is a "preferred shop" in that they get all kinds of prototypes in that most stores don't)..we were able to get great Zeppelin-like and AC/DC like tones. We even put my store-owner friend's '59 RI Tom Murphy LP through it's paces, and sweet tones were abound (albeit a bit darker than the Tokai).Anyway, we coaxed all kinds of nice tones out of that amp/LP guitar combination.

When trying the 1974X with a strat, my audiophile head friend (who's also dying for an 18 watt amp) remarked "you know, the Savage Macht 12 that you had was a beautiful amp. Lovely in every way, but this Marshall.........".......as he had his own personal eargasm with the tremelo channel. Then we cranked up the normal channel and his jaw dropped. Then I told him it'd be my amp in a couple weeks and he wanted to kill me.

Tone is subjective. I put asterisks on the words that are subjective.

Happy 18 watt hunting.

*edited for grammar.

[larrylover]

Fortunately, buying this Marshall will not kill you, as the plague can. Nor is the Marshall so expensive -- like, say, a Two Rock custom reverb signature -- that buying it might make you wish you were dead. So I would never say anything like your second option.

In case my opening post was not clear, however, I did not like the Marshall. I don't think there is much there there. For the same money, you can get far more interesting and much better sounding amps. I would buy many production amps at far lower cost over this amp.

My view is, as with any amp, try it and if you like it, get it. But I would not get it without trying alternatives. For example, the used Dr. Z Maz Jr. 1 X12 combo I tried at the same time was listed at $1350 (and this was a typical GC far too expensive price) sounded so much better than the Marshall from clean to mean and all in between superior to the Marshall, it was laughable. And I bet if you compare the Marshall to almost anything else at any price -- say a Vox Valvetronix, for example -- the Valvetronix will prove to be more versatile and sound better at everything, even the wide open sound that this Marshall did best.

[jokerjkny]

the Marshall 18 watt handwired is a nice amp...

but after owning a GDS 18 watter, Carmen Ghia, a Mojave Coyote, the marshall made stuff does seem rather bland in comparison.

[tombo]

Viva le difference.

No use in trying to justify my purchase. Plenty of players on TGP love the 1974X, even compared to much costlier amps. Others don't like it. Heck, I'll admit it - I love Tom Anderson guitars too, and they don't get a lot of respect here on The Gear Page.

[HHB]

I just played a series of gigs w/ the HW 18 watt Marshall, I liked it alot, jumping channels makes a huge difference , took me a few gigs to discover that. IMO if your running humbuckers it's a great straight in amp that sounds very "Marshally" to me. I do prefer a more "Fender"style amp in the long run but enjoyed my gigs w/ the 1974X

[big mike]

I have the 20 Watt L&B on order. As long as the one trick is the "Marshall" tone, I have an A/B box to the Z28 for everything else. Sorry you didn't dig the 1974X larrylover. Bummer. Interesting comparison though, thanks for sharing.

[tonedaddy]

Originally posted by larrylover
It was a very one trick pony. (Used a LP with humbuckers). Cleans were very very ordinary, maybe even less than that....I found it seriously lacking inspiration....The Marshall is just an ordinary, ordinary amp at extraordinary prices.Originally posted by HHB
I just played a series of gigs w/ the HW 18 watt Marshall, I liked it alot, jumping channels makes a huge difference , took me a few gigs to discover that. IMO if your running humbuckers it's a great straight in amp that sounds very "Marshally" to me. I do prefer a more "Fender"style amp in the long run but enjoyed my gigs w/ the 1974X One amp.
Two different players.
Two different results.

If these kinds of results show anything, it's that buying amps based on any reviews will only take you so far.

Imagine if either one of the reviewers would have made a purchase decision based on contrary reviews. One would have ended up deeply disappointed, and one might have missed an amp that he would have enjoyed.

Nothing beats playing an amp and deciding for yourself what works for you.

[big mike]

Originally posted by tonedaddy

Nothing beats playing an amp and deciding for yourself what works for you.

Very well said. BIG +1

[RichSZ]

Originally posted by HHB
I just played a series of gigs w/ the HW 18 watt Marshall, I liked it alot, jumping channels makes a huge difference , took me a few gigs to discover that. IMO if your running humbuckers it's a great straight in amp that sounds very "Marshally" to me. I do prefer a more "Fender"style amp in the long run but enjoyed my gigs w/ the 1974X

You may have gotten some phase cancellation going on by jumpering the channels. The trem channel is out of phase with the normal channel so you would get phase cancellation at certain frequencies. I believe the London 65 also has the same issues and some sort of phase reveral A+B box was mentioned in another post.

FWIW, try that 1974x with a Zakk Wylde OD...get's it a little heavier without spiking the mids to unpleasant levels.

-Rich

[mrmojorisin]

1) Even with the same make/model amp there are good ones and there are lemons. There is a LOT of variability. Play two or three of the same thing and you'll find no two are alike.

2) A GOOD Marshall 18 clone (make/model + mojo ) is a joy to behold. When you find a really good one, DONT EVER SELL IT.

3) I've been through as many 18 watt amps as perhaps anyone on this board (except the guys that make them!) and I have been fortunate to find (and KEEP) some very good ones.

4) With a Marshall 18 clone speakers are hugely important...you haven't really heard a Marshall 18 until you run one through a pair of Cel Blues at 8 ohm wired in series.

5) As for jumpering, I don't. It screws up the input impedance. I use a y-cord (under $5 from Radio Shack) and plug into the hi inputs of both channels. This causes my Blockhead First Born 18 to just scream...

6) Marshall 18 circuits just LOVE the old Valvo EL84's. They "stiffen" the amp up a bit compared to Mullards, a good thing IMHO when you are running an EZ81 rectifier.

C.

[fullerplast]

Originally posted by fzfwyv
You may have gotten some phase cancellation going on by jumpering the channels. The trem channel is out of phase with the normal channel so you would get phase cancellation at certain frequencies. -Rich

I believe the trem channel and the normal are in phase on the 1974X. Each input on the normal side has it's own triode and the trem channel has one triode (shared between inputs) for amplification and one for the oscillator. Neither channel has a second stage before the PI.

Since the normal channel does not share inputs, you would need to jumper from the trem side, with the guitar plugged into the trem side. Otherwise, there is no signal path between inputs on the normal side.

[John Bell]

Originally posted by fullerplast
I believe the trem channel and the normal are in phase on the 1974X. Each input on the normal side has it's own triode and the trem channel has one triode (shared between inputs) for amplification and one for the oscillator. Neither channel has a second stage before the PI.

Since the normal channel does not share inputs, you would need to jumper from the trem side, with the guitar plugged into the trem side. Otherwise, there is no signal path between inputs on the normal side.

Fullerplast....could you e-mail me please?
Thanks.

[fullerplast]

You got it John...I'll take a look.

[cocheese]

I haven't tried the Marshall 18 watter, but I sure am enjoying my Gabi Voxer. It's one hald Marshall 18 watt and one half Vox AC15. The Marshall side sounds great but the Vox side is where the honey hides. If you want a really nice custom 18 watt, give Gabi a call and he'll roll you one up right. Service is second ot none! :D

[fullerplast]

Originally posted by cocheese
I haven't tried the Marshall 18 watter, but I sure am enjoying my Gabi Voxer. It's one hald Marshall 18 watt and one half Vox AC15. The Marshall side sounds great but the Vox side is where the honey hides. If you want a really nice custom 18 watt, give Gabi a call and he'll roll you one up right. Service is second ot none! :D

Looks like a nice alternative to the 65 London. Fat chance of ever hearing the two of them side by side though....:(

FWIW, the best sounding 18W I've heard to date was a GDS.

[Sonic Reducer]

Originally posted by fullerplast
Looks like a nice alternative to the 65 London. Fat chance of ever hearing the two of them side by side though....:(

FWIW, the best sounding 18W I've heard to date was a GDS.

Did it have the tremolo or his TMB tone stack?

[fullerplast]

Originally posted by mjpisat
Did it have the tremolo or his TMB tone stack?

It was the trem version. Our own forum member DC67 is the owner.

[dbeeman]

Gabi Voxer.

Web site?

[cocheese]

fullerplast,

Actually, believe it or not, myself and some other Seattle-ites heard the 65 London and the Gabi Voxer side by side just a few weeks ago.

mjpisat,

In case you were referring to the Voxer, it has Volume and Tone on the Marshall side and Volume, Tone, and Contour (6-position rotary) on the Vox side. There is a global Cut control that effects both channels.

Website is: http://mamaliga.com/gabriel/

[fullerplast]

Originally posted by cocheese
fullerplast,

Actually, believe it or not, myself and some other Seattle-ites heard the 65 London and the Gabi Voxer side by side just a few weeks ago.



:eek:Well don't leave us hanging!!!:D What did you think?

[tonedaddy]

Originally posted by fullerplast
:eek:Well don't leave us hanging!!!:D What did you think? I know! Cocheese loves to see us beg....
:D

[cocheese]

Don't want to leave you hangin'... ;)

I liked the 65 London, but I far prefer the tone of the Gabriel. The 65 is a very nice sounding head but I found it a tad dark for my tastes. The Voxer is much more alinve and has way more gain on tap. You can really hear the EL84's in there. Both channels on the Voxer sound very nice, but the EF86 side just gives up the goods when hit hard. It is similar to the /13 click channel but warmer and more vintagey. Again, these are just my opinions. I think the general consensus that day was unanimous in favor of the Voxer, but maybe the other guys that were there will chime in? Guys... :D

I'd be perfectly happy with either one of these amps. It's a bit of a hair-splitting contest.

[davidp158]

I was also present, and 65 amp didn't grab me. The design of the amp may be different enough that I may need to spend a lot more time with it to get some good tones from it, but it was dark, clean and loud. Probably a great amp for pedals. The 65 also has a very strange tremolo.

Tyler's Gabriel really caught my ear, and I'm not usually a Marshall type guy. That amp has a great range of tones, and is very touch sensitive. Most Marshalls I've tried were too compressed, or too heavy in midrange and lacked a sweet top end. The Gabriel compresses just right and the the top end was great. And let's not forget those groovy yellow knobs!

The Vox AC30CC surprised everyone, with its great tones, power and bias options, decent reverb and tremolo. Considering how much less expensive these are than a boutique amp, if the build quality is good and they hold up with regular gigging, these amps are a bargain.

Regarding 18 watt amps, I think that's adequate power for most gig situations. I have a MAZ Jr. 2x10 combo, and love it. Lots of tone options, great overdrive, decent reverb, portable, and well built.

Dave

[Kenster]

Here here.. or is it hear hear:D I attended this little fest as well. Seriously what Dave and Cocheese said about the 65 is what I heard. I also thought it was a bit dark to my taste. Granted we didnt play it through its own designed cab with Cel Blue and G12 H30, but it was played through a Germino with Greenbacks as well as an Aiken 2 12 cab with Scumbacks on another occasion. Both made the amp sound a bit on the dark side.However
I could definetly see how certain players would love the 65 but
it just didnt work for me. Definetly is a looker though.

That Gabi though was quite the ticket.Had the bite the chime and thickness I always love. Plus I love that small box head platform.

We also had a Constellation, K60, Two Rock, Aiken MK I 18 Watter
and the Vox AC30CC. All great sounding amps with there own
voice. Gotta say though the Vox was the bargain of the bunch.
It kept up with others in its own Voxey way.

We truly live in an awsome age of amp choices. Pretty much comes down to knowing what you want and trying out as many
amps you can get your hands on.

Cheers

:D

[cocheese]

Yes, I could be VERY happy with the 65 London. It's a very nice sounding amp and it reacts to pedals quite well. Good point Ken, we didn't try it through a 65 cabinet. That can really change the overall tone.

Of all the amps that day, the AC30 CC stole the show. Probably the least expensive amp (except for my Lavelle LunchBox) and had some of the best tones. I thought that you were playing through one of the handwired models when I walked it. I thought, "Damn, those AC30 HW's sounds really nice!" Then you told me that it was the new Custom Classic and made in China. All I have to say is, nothing wrong with that. The tone certainly doesn't suffer from it. And the price doesn't suffer either! I'm looking forward to hearing that one again along with Dave's Maz18. :)

[Colt]

hehehe, you're all pretty silly....the 1974x is a bad mama' jamma'

[DannyDay]

See my previous reply on the first page...

I played another Marshall 18 watter and :eek: it was so completely different than the other ones I played!

The cleans were as good as the best of Fender (kinda reminded me of a my Bassman) and the overdrive is all Marshall! The difference in sound really surprised me (and I'm pretty jaded).

I bought it. I love it. A very different experience from before. I'll post some clips elsewhere when I get some free time. Cheers,

DD.

[Curly]

I've heard the Marshall twice - once at the LA Amp Show, and once in a shop.
Nice tone, but a little underwhelming. Even for an 18 watt, the bass was weak, although I've heard the speaker cab is critical with those.

[jjguitarranch]

Here are some basic tone samples of the 2061X:

http://www.jjguitarranch.com/Download.html

Great sounding amp in my opinion. I know, the thread is about the combo, but they both sounded similar to me.

Thanks for a great amp Mitch!

[Teleplayer]

I have played through two Marshall 1974x combos now. Thought they were excellent - exactly what I expected out of a 1x12 2xEL84 Marshall reissue combo. Classic Marshall tone, IMHO. Of course, I never expected pristine cleans - or the thump of a 50 watter through a 4x12 cabinet - so I was never disappointed.

[jonleecourage]

+1 to what fullerplast said. The best sounding Mashall-style amp 18w or not at the tonefest last year was the GDS 18w.

I brought an Aiken Invader 18w 2x12 which, while a great-sounding, quality-built, and very versatile amp, I never really bonded with and eventually replaced.

The 65 didn't do it for me at all.

I'm now greatly enjoying a Soultone 18w head.

[pepperco]

Originally posted by jjguitarranch
Here are some basic tone samples of the 2061X:

http://www.jjguitarranch.com/Download.html

Great sounding amp in my opinion. I know, the thread is about the combo, but they both sounded similar to me.

Thanks for a great amp Mitch!

Thanks for the clips,

I have the 2061x, (for about a year). I posted about it when I first got it. I love it, absolutely my sound. Fullerplast was right
when he said a year ago "it will be a tube eater for sure".
The first factory set of power tubes lasted about 5 monthes,
but now I feel like I'm lucky to get 2 or 3 monthes out of the
tubes. I even had one JJ EL84 fizzle in about 60 seconds !!
But the sound to me is worth it.

Speaking of the sound, I have not heard ANY clips of the amp
online that demonstrate the amps sound, where I like to run
it. An "in between sound" not cranked plexi, not clean.
More of a touch sensitive Jimmy page vibe. I have no way
to host a soundclip of it. But if someone would like to host
an "in between" clip I could email it to them.