SG Advice

[ReeseC]

I'm looking for some advice on vintage SG's from the experts. I've been using an LP Standard as my humbucker guitar for the past few years and have just never bonded with it...pickup swaps, different amps, nothing has really helped. I think the time has come to find a new humbucker guitar, and I've always dug SG's whenever I've had a chance to play on them. I'm primarily looking for some type of older SG. I've got nothing against the current crop of standards and specials, but there's just something badass about a vintage SG. My friend has got a 70's standard style one that he loves (with the small block inlays and weird large bridge), so I've narrowed it down to one of those or a Firebrand/"The SG" style one. I don't know a whole lot about either one, aside from what I've been reading on the internet, so I thought maybe someone here could clear a few things up.

Regarding the "Standard" style SG:
- Are most of the vintage SG's this type? I've noticed quite a few on ebay have the small inlays and the funky bridge.
- Are there particular years to avoid? Good years? I know a lot of the LP's from this era get a pretty bad rep
- What's a good price to pay for one of these? If the current ebay prices are accurate, maybe it would be fair to trade my LP for an SG?

Regarding the "Firebrand" SG:
- I've read that the deluxe ones are mahogany, but I've never actually seen one that says deluxe...so I'm not sure how to tell if they are mahogany or walnut.
- Is the walnut a huge tonal disadvantage? These guitars don't seem to get trashed on the internet, but I don't read a whole lot of praise for them either.
- How are the neck profiles on these compared to other SG's?
- Is there a difference in versions of the Firebrand's? I've seen some with the actual "branded" headstock and some with the gold logo painted on.

Sorry for the jumbled collection of questions, I'm just trying to clarify the stuff I've read so far. Really any advice about SG's is welcome, Thanks!

[3th3r]

It would help you tremendously if you went out to a few music stores and played a few new and used SGs. You could then get a feel for necks, body balance, tones, etc. Why limit yourself to to Firebrand or "The SG" when you've only read about them?

[ReeseC]

Ah sorry, I should have clarified. I've been trying quite a few of the modern ones, and had one of the Faded ones for awhile in a temporary trade. Although I like the sound of all of them, the Faded necks are a little too thick for me. The 61's sound the best out of the newer SG's I've played, but they go out of tune too quickly with my playing (I think I'm pretty heavy handed)...might just need to look at a larger pool of them though. I like the Standard's and would consider one of those, I was just curious what was out there as far as vintage/rarer ones go since it's harder to find/play those.

[lakehaus]

Do research on the Firebrand - my opinion is they were made as entry level guitars back in the day. Perhaps lesser quality components and wood than the other models of similar shape. That was my impression when I played a few (influenced by the words of the salesman) when I was looking for a LP around the late '70s.

Rule of thumb - there are gems and duds in every crop. Rumored more duds than gems during the Norlin era. That said, I would NOT stay away from a Norlin era Gibson SG. You really have to play the thing to know. I know, I know... nearly impossible with vintage instruments.

I have a Norlin era SG Standard. The fit and finish (I bought it new) was amazing. No issues there. The Gibson branded Schaller tuners - excellent. The pickups, elex, and bridge... IMO suffered from cost cutting.

I played this guitar in stock form for 30 years and it's held up famously, but never became my number one. I decided to upgrade the lacking components. Now I'll put it up against any slim 60s necked SG. I've played many, many SGs. It always had the feel, and now it has the tone. This one has 'it'.

Swaps (all original stuff is in the case):

Tarback humbuckers to Gibson Pat. No. Sticker'd humbuckers
Stock elex to RS Guitarworks Superpots 500K & 500K tones; vintage .022uF Bumble Bees
Stock Schaller (harmonica "weird large bridge") to Callaham ABR-1 & studs
Stock stopbar to Gotoh aluminum & TonePros locking studs
Speed knobs to 1971 Gibson knobs (came with my ES-175)

Granted, the upgrades cost more than what I paid for my '76 SG w/ case in 1977, but it's 4 times the guitar it was.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh172/tidalsurge/Gibson/1976%20SG%20Standard/DSC_0559.jpg

[AceBSpankin]

Lakehaus what did you do to replace the harmonica "wierd large bridge"??

[lakehaus]

Lakehaus what did you do to replace the harmonica "wierd large bridge"??

I posted a step-by-step not long ago here. Quick research, basic tools and limited skill is all it took. Click here for the thread (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=813080)

[ajchance]

Recent acquirer of a '71 SG deluxe here. Its the one with the Gibson labelled Bigsby, large chrome bridge and front mounted control cavity cover. According to all the "experts", it's supposed to be a Norlin POS. I'm very happy with it. Nice thin neck. Punchy T-top pups. I didn't like the 61RI I tried because it was so neck heavy. I gues the heavy Norlin bodies fixed that problem. Mine is nicely balanced playing seated.

I've had one of the early mahogony body "The Paul" before. Others may have had better luck, but mine was awful. Never could get it in good playing shape' dead wood, crap pups. I'd take a newer Epiphone over one of the "The" series or firebrands.

My .02

[Kurt L]

I've got a '79 "The SG." It was my first guitar, hung onto it all these years.

I don't think the walnut is a tonal disadvantage, just different. Compared to my fave all mahogany guitar, the SG definitely has a faster and brighter attack. Pops out at you a little more, seems a little more percussive if that makes sense. The tradeoff is a little less warmth. Combined with the ebony fretboard, it makes for a pretty bright guitar. Works really well for hard rock rhythm tracks, leads sound pretty aggressive.

The pickups (Gibson called 'em "Dirty Fingers and Velvet Brick") measured 8.2K and 7.5K. If I'd have guessed, I'd have thought they were hotter than that.

Can't compare to other SGs, but the neck on mine is pretty thin.

Mine has the gold decal logo - I changed the knobs and added the TP-6 tailpiece in the early 80s.

Hope that helps...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/kurtl/theSG.jpg

[somedude]

I didn't like the 61RI I tried because it was so neck heavy.

I must've lucked out. Mine points the headstock at the roof if you let it.

The 61's sound the best out of the newer SG's I've played, but they go out of tune too quickly with my playing (I think I'm pretty heavy handed)...might just need to look at a larger pool of them though.

I think they could benefit from a better nut setup. Mine tended to bind in the nut so I worked the nut a bit to clean it up and I've coated the nut slots with graphite.

The other thing that really helped tuning stability was that I stopped using a neck hanger. The thin neck gets pulled flat under the guitar's own weight and when I'd lift it out of the stand for use I'd have to wait for the neck to sharpen back up before I could do anything with it. Using a floor stand that holds the body has cleared this issue up.

[ReeseC]

Thanks for the thoughts guys, I'll do some more research.

To lakehaus or anyone else who has played the vintage and modern SG's: How do they compare stock? I'd still prefer a vintage one if possible, but I'm wonder if maybe a regular SG Standard would require less modification.

[jcs]

65 SG Special owner here,,,,search out early-mid 60s SG's even ones with repairs.

[lakehaus]

Thanks for the thoughts guys, I'll do some more research.

To lakehaus or anyone else who has played the vintage and modern SG's: How do they compare stock? I'd still prefer a vintage one if possible, but I'm wonder if maybe a regular SG Standard would require less modification.

This is just my opinion, so take it as you like:

Within the last 3 years, I've played or owned several vintage P-90 & humbucker loaded SGs, and several newer Standards, Specials, & Reissues. Each one felt like it was a quality instrument and sounded good.

I am partial to a guitar that feels broken in - the neck that is. I like factory & boutique relics for this reason. It's not an easy DIY to make the neck feel broken in, although I've done it. If your fretting paw feels comfortable, it shows in your playing.

That said, my options would be to buy vintage with a great neck, known 'less than stellar' bolt-ons (tuners, pups, elex), choose bolt-ons that suit my style and the guitar, and go for it. I'll admit a newer '61RI I played owned once had a great feeling neck, while another's frets felt tall and the board edges sharp.