I don`t get it

[edwarddavis]

I see some of you guys saying that you waited a year or two for a guitar to be built. NObody loves a great looking and playing guitar more than me. I am a Tom Anderson fan by the way and don`t see much on here about him, what a shame. Any way I thank you guys for opening up my eyes to a lot of very cool guitars and I thank you. I have had Anderson`s love them, Heatleys also great guitars and the usual les pauls,prs and so forth . I just don`t understand how it could take so long to have a guitar built. I see a lot of you praising lentz guitars , never seen or played one. I am sure they are great and he is probably a small shop as most of these are but is it the process they use that takes so long or the just build a lot of guitars. There are so many great usd guitars FS even custom made ones I would never have the patience to wait. Then I see people selling them not long after they have waited. I understand that if you want a guitar built just for you its needed to buy new and wait . Some of the guitars I see hee are freakin amazing looking and I am sure it takes time. But some look like just plain strat styles that make me ask how could it take so long to build that guitar.

Just asking. I have no idea what it takes to build a guitar of a high caliber such as the ones here

[John Hurtt]

Well, it took about 10 months for Ron Thorn to build my guitar. There are/were probably 100 other guitars going through his shop in various stages of completion. Plus, he has his inlay work to do, which is likely the real money maker for Ron.

I'm totally happy with the experience, Ron rocks!!!

[KLB]

Sometimes (but not always), good things come to those who wait.

[aleclee]

Well, nitro takes a good long time to cure so if the body and neck are being made to order, I can see that factoring in to the order time.

Throw in a good backlog and it just gets longer and longer.

[big mike]

Originally posted by aleclee
Well, nitro takes a good long time to cure so if the body and neck are being made to order, I can see that factoring in to the order time.

Throw in a good backlog and it just gets longer and longer.

Yup yup. Chapin was explaining the PIA Nitro can be last time I saw him.

[scott]

Since my name was mentioned...........The wait for one of my guitars is only about 6 to 8 months depending on what you order.....Its still a long time but thats a far cry from 2 years.





www.heatleyguitars.com

[whoofnagle]

I don't think waiting is the end of the world. I have a Heatley on order - been a little over a year, but that is due to a couple of factors. Leading the way is the fact that Scott had to find the wood for my neck. He did not have it in stock and it took a little while to get. He was very forthcoming that this would add time to my order, but it is what I wanted - no big deal. To me as long as the builder keeps you informed about the progress and any potential delays, then I am all for the wait. It is not like this will be my only guitar.

Yes' there are other really niced used guitars for sale, but when you have the opportunity to nail down every feature that you want - it is well worth the wait.

Bill

[VaughnC]

....personally, I don't think I would ever have a guitar custom built....unless there was some sort of guarartee that it met my expectations after it was built. IMO, used or new, running the racks gives you a better chance of finding "the one". When the right neck, meets the right body, meets the right pickups, meets the right player, magic can happen. But I think there are too many variables to plan "the one"....you just have to find it ;).

[Mike_C]

I don't know there is something about getting a guitar built that is jsut for you that is very cool and addictive. I'm a Hamer lover and have had the pleasure and goof fortune to have been able to sort through the wood pile and pick a top for a custom order.
It's a great feeling to see your guitar in raw form as a billet of wood and then see the finished product. I have yet to be let down by a custom ordered guitar. BTW the wait time was a reasonable 4 to 5 months.

[Radax]

McNaught took only about 6 months, reasonable.

Mike

[dirk nixon]

Some builders like Anderson have their shops set up like mini factories with employees doing much of the work. Some builders do everything themself. EVERYTHING. So it takes longer. Some builders will customize a guitar to their customers specs. Other builders like Anderson have many options to choose from but they don't do custom work so they can keep their production numbers higher. I guess some builders are more business savvy and others see themself more as artists rather than businessmen. They enjoy the challenge of custom work.

There would be more people posting about Anderson guitars here if there wasn't already an Anderson forum. I know many Gear Page members hang out there too.

[dirk nixon]

Originally posted by Suhr
Not a factory situation at all since in a factory you will have people installing necks to bodies who really dont care or know what they are doing or why, they just follow instructions and many are cheap labor.
Tom is a great guy, he hates browsing outside of his forum ( and wonders why I do) since it is heart breaking sometimes when you love what you do. Tom uses one builder to assemble each guitar the same as we do, except usually a wiring person does the wiring, a paint guy does the painting and in our situation we use our PLEK to level the frets since it can do it better than a human IMO. This way each person does what they know the best, and we and Tom have NO cheap labor, all our people are very experienced. The main issue for Tom and myself is the there is 1 person assembling the guitar so they know that guitar. The Problem with a one man shop is that it is very rare to find a builder who does EVERYTHING well, woodwork, paint, frets, wiring , setup etc....it serves the customer best if that know it all guy runs the shop (unless you want to see some very high prices and very long wait times)
I think the wait time on guitars has nothing to do with a small shop or a big shop but has everything to do with how many orders you have and what your capacity is. If a Shop is being honest they would explain it isnt the build time of an instrument since that isnt going to vary more than a day or so. It is how long it takes to get to your name on the list and whether or not all your parts are in stock, do they have your wood and were there any problems with the order and do they season the necks etc...
Making guitars in a larger qty is just as much of an art to me as making onesy twosy...it is a great challenge and in the end it is the customer who wins with the technology helping the builder to be more consistant and produce repeatable high quality product.

The way you describe Tom Anderson's shop is how I figured it was. I've never actually been there. I didn't mean it as a slam when I said it was like a mini-factory. I used him as an example because his name was mentioned in the original post. I happen to really like Anderson and Suhr guitars.

I have been to Don Grosh's place a few times though and it's pretty much the same way you guys do things. He seems to assemble them himself. Another guy does most of the painting. Another guys does the sanding. I've spent some time with Joe Driskill and Ron Thorn too. It is much different there. Driskill does absolutely everything himself. Thorn gets a hand from his Dad and another guy sometimes but it's mostly him. These guys will do an elaborate inlay if you want and that can really take some extra time. Inlay is an art form in itself.

[Jon Silberman]

Originally posted by VaughnC
....personally, I don't think I would ever have a guitar custom built....unless there was some sort of guarartee that it met my expectations after it was built. IMO, used or new, running the racks gives you a better chance of finding "the one". When the right neck, meets the right body, meets the right pickups, meets the right player, magic can happen. But I think there are too many variables to plan "the one"....you just have to find it ;).

Vaughn, I'm with you on this one. :)

[AJ Love]

Originally posted by VaughnC
... IMO, used or new, running the racks gives you a better chance of finding "the one". When the right neck, meets the right body, meets the right pickups, meets the right player, magic can happen. But I think there are too many variables to plan "the one"....you just have to find it ;).

I think theres a lot of truth in that... I've tried many times to not believe that but ultimately it comes down to playing a guitar first before you really know that its right for you... buying used or dealing with stores that have a liberal return policy can help prevent losing big $$ on a purchase that doesn't work out, but that can take alot of time... ultimately playing an instrument in the store before you buy is the best way to find a great instrument thats right for you

[twitch]

I hear what Vaughan is saying, but I don't think it takes one thing into account. And that is the special talent that some of these small builders have. At least, I know Joe Driskill does. Joe has the ability to understand the people he is dealing with very well. I sent him samples of me playing, We talked alot about the type of music I like to play and the sound I am looking for. I even met Joe pretty early in the building stage of my guitar. I really think all of that went a long weay into Joe delivering me the perfect guitar. I also had played a few Driskill prior to ordering one, and was very confident in it being what I wanted.

I cannot fathom me going to a store and pulling something off the racks and have it feel like this, and sound just like I want it too. And I am talking about being blind folded, so looks are out of the equation.

I really feel like my Driskill is a part of me, and was definitely built for me. And i waited 18 months for it, and much of what I talked about above is why I don't regret that wait at all, and would do it all over again if the bank account would let me.

[VaughnC]

I have no doubt that sometimes "custom built" does work. However, with wood being a naturally tonally inconsistent product, and the fact that a neck & body have to communicate with each other in just the right way, and that no two pickups can be made exactly the same, I think that a custom built guitar is a bit of a crap shoot. Great if custom built worked out for you but seeking out "the one" by running the racks can be fun too. I've played probably several hundred Strats in my life and only a handfull really spoke to me....and only one had it all. So I must be fussy in my old age ;) ....

[lhallam]

Originally posted by Suhr
it serves the customer best if that know it all guy runs the shop

What kind of luthier work does the know it all guy do when he runs the shop? QA?

[Glowing Tubes]

I could blindly order a Suhr or Anderson and know Im getting an excellent instrument. There certainly is a bit more at stake when you wait over a year for a guitar but Im sure the builders do what it takes to make sure their customers are completely happy.

Richard

[MightyGuru]

While I agree somewhat with VaughnC's sentiments, nothing I have ever owned or played is as sweet as my Heatley.

I am a guy that looks through tons of guitars before buying one (I must have tried 70 teles before settling on my Mary Kaye) but there is nothing like playing a neck designed with your hands and style in mind.

The downside is the wait but some can easily reconcile this niggle.

[lhallam]

Originally posted by Suhr
Active Q&A is extremely important.
I trained I do all the drawings All pickups are my design I also program. You really cant get more involved than I am, I also intonate and check every guitar before it leaves. If I go on vacation nothing ships.

I also deal with customer, amp design, PC Board design and Amp QC, play thru every amp and put it in the box, wire speakers

:eek:

I think you're due for a vacation. ;)

Thanks for the insight.

[RevolutionMan]

I've had Scott Heatley build 2 guitars for me. Both times I found the experience to be unique in that you're actively involved in the planning, and you have to really do your research to make sure that what you're ordering is what's best for you, in other words if you're a roots rock/country player, that dream guitar with EMG's and a floyd isn't going to do it for you at the end of the day. I suspect that some of that goes on.

When I received both guitars, I had to ask myself to completely remove myself from the situation, not to like the guitar just because I had helped plan it. Then ask myself, ok knowing nothing of this guitar, pick it up and are you still blown away compared to "off the rack" guitars that I have.

The answer is yes, no doubt. It's the little things, the very slight details that make the difference. Both of the heatleys are simply outstanding, from the fretwork to the actual tone acoustically and out of various amps, one of them is my main guitar now, not because I'm attached to it, but because I simply haven't found anything better, and I sure look. Until you get one that's been made by hand, with love, I guess it's hard to explain, but the quality is something that is quite evident when it's all said and done. Sure I'll still buy a new tele or les paul once in awhile if I find a good one-just because I'm a sucker for a nice guitar, but I doubt that it would replace what I've had built for me.

I'm not trying to do some public service announcement for Scott, even though he deserves one in my opinion. I'm just saying that the wait is completely worth it. In fact, after receiving what I have from Heatley, heck I'd wait even longer if I had to. Just make sure you're ordering what you really want and more importantly, will really use.

[paintguy]

Until you have a custom guitar made, you can never relate to us who have. I thought I could buy the ultimate guitar for me off the shelf. 25+ guitars later, (13 currently) I decided to have a custom guitar made to my specs.
Guess what? My favorite one, the 1 that has ended what seemed like a never ending search was the custom 1 . I waited 17 frustrating months to get mine.
When I got it, all was forgotten!!!! Still dig my Gibsons', Prs', Ibanez, Yamaha etc.... but they all take second place to the custom 1. The 17 months were well worth it!!!
If you know the specs you want, you can't go wrong (imo). Honestly, the custom 1 feels and sounds better than any other guitar I own.
Also, everything about it is exactly what I wanted. I could never find a off the shelf guitar like it.
"Try it, you'll like it"
Larry

[Lucidology]

Good subject ...

[decay-o-caster]

I have no doubt that sometimes "custom built" does work. However, with wood being a naturally tonally inconsistent product, and the fact that a neck & body have to communicate with each other in just the right way, and that no two pickups can be made exactly the same, I think that a custom built guitar is a bit of a crap shoot.....

Vaughn - that is EXACTLY why you have a custom builder build it for you.

There are some guys out there who just buy the prettiest flamiest quiltiest lumber they can find, and yes, then it's a total crap shoot. But there are lots of others (and it's no secret that I'm a big Chapin fan) who find the wood and pickups that work best together to get exactly what you want out of the guitar. When I talk to Bill about guitars, I don't tell him what wood and hardware and pickups I want, beyond vague generalities. He knows my playing and my ergonomics and my heroes better than I do, and he won't put together pieces that don't fit, no matter how much I beg. So the guys who want a vintage S or T can get that from him, whereas my S-style is anti-vintage because I really don't like strats. So I have an S-style that looks like the real thing but sounds totally different - much more in line with what Bill knows I want from a guitar.

So you run the racks at GC to find the one Strat that has "the tone", or you build a relationship with a guy who can give it to you without the randomness. And most custom builders who really know what they're doing will give you something pretty close to a guarantee that what they're building you is what you really want.

So that's why you wait for the months to pass. When it comes in, it's pretty much what you wanted from the git-go.

[big mike]

Old threads come back!!! LOL Love that.

Gotta trust the builder to do what you ask, from a tonal standpoint, and not TELL him how to do his job, and you'll have a winner, IMO.

Chapin or Thorn, I could blindly order one with no worries and know I'd get a stellar instrument.

[ducmike]

I agree that you have to go through the experience to get it. And the odds of getting a dud from someone like Koll or Thorn is pretty slim. These guys know what you want before they take your money. I knew what I wanted, and I knew that Saul was the guy to build it after I spoke to him. It took about 9 months. But I have had for about a year and a half now and it is still my #1 go to guitar. You'll forget the wait as soon as you get it in your hands. Provided that you knew what you wanted and you found the right builder for you.

On the flip side, I totally get the find a great one off the rack theory too. My #2 is Vinetto Legato that I got at the Arlington show last year. I knew I would probably be leaving with as I played the first lick on it. Half an hour later there was no way anyone else was gett'n that one.

[Martin Horne]

Ordering a custom guitar IMO depends on
1. Being familiar with the builder's work and
2. Knowing what specs work for you.
I have 2 McNaughts, one which I speced out and one bought as is and they are my 2 all time favorites.

[John Page]

As to part of the original question of why it can take up to a year (or more) to build a guitar, I'd like to address that... at least from my perspective. I've learned many things over the years of working with wood, both guitars and art furniture (and I know there's a ton more I can learn). But the one thing that I think is key, is the fact that while a tree grows, dries and cures, it develops internal stresses. The direction of the grain, figure, etc., effect that. When a piece is cut from the "green" tree it's dried (air dried first, then maybe kiln dried) at a nominal dimension... let's say 5/4 or 4/4 for a neck ("five quarter" means 1 1/4" thick), and some random width and length. Everytime you take something off of that piece, the piece moves. It moves because it was originally "cured" at a nominal dimension that the piece equalized to. When you start to remove material the internal stresses take the wood "somewhere else", they make it move. Very few pieces of wood that I have ever worked have stayed in the same level of original (pre machined) equalibrium once I machined it. I have found over the years, that the longer I let the wood sit between critical operations and removal of material, the more stable the final piece is... so I'm going to let it sit between operations as long as I see fit... period. That also goes for paint cure!

I would also say, again just my opinion, that most of us builders want to make the absolute best possible instrument that we can. If we need more time to make it right, do it over, test other possible options, rework tooling, refurb our shops, clear our scattered-brained heads, etc., etc., etc., then most of us do it. That's another big difference between us and the big guys, "right is right", it's not just about the production numbers getting out there day after day.

I've always believed that building a guitar is like human gestation, you can't rush it and it'll take about nine months. That being said, add back orders, the fact that most small shops are one-ish man operations, building, selling, parts acquisition, maintenance, etc., and that nine months turns into a year plus pretty easy.

[Vince]

I've always believed that building a guitar is like human gestation, you can't rush it and it'll take about nine months.

Yes, and to use Mr. Page's analogy, you can rest assured that at some point during the process, something got f**cked! :D

I love you man....

[fusionbear]

I have 3 Suhr's and only one is a custom order. It took 5 months, but was worth the wait. J.S. and co. make the best guitars IMO period. Everyone of them resonates acoustically and is ALIVE when plugged in. The other seem to have been built for me even though the specs are different. My first was a Light Ash Standard w Maple neck, my second was a mohogany/maple top with mo/Ind. RW board, the third a chambered Koa body with Pao ferro neck. Each one sounds different but plays as if it was carved for me......

[DiazDude]

I ordered my McNaught TOTALLY blind. Never played or even seen one in person. I went totally on their rep from posts here and from emails & talking to the Dave's on the phone.
I know it was a high dollar risk but when I went to their shop and they handed me the guitar I was amazed at what they had done. The key is communication. I must have called them 50 times and I don't know how many emails were exchanged but they never felt pestered in any way. I did my research on specs and few changes were made from the original quote..this made things easier for my nerves for sure.
True masters of the guitar building craft all seem to know how important it is to those of us who opt for a personal, one off instrument.
In the case of what David McNaught & Dave Mansel can do..it's worth the wait. Perfection cannot and should not be rushed.

[Down and Out in NYC]

Sometimes I don't get it either. I'm patiently ( sometimes ) waiting on 2 custom builds. Both were ordered within 1 week of each other, late in August of 05, I believe one was ordered on the 18th and one was ordered on the 25th. The biggest and seemingly only delay at this point was mainly my doing. While trying to source a koa top for one of the guitars, i stumbled ( sometime around March 06 ) across a huge piece of koa. I don't remember the exact dimensions, but its something like 110 " x 24 " x 2 + ". Got a great price on it too. The only thing was that it wasn't completely dry. Mentioned it to luthier # 1, he offered to let it dry at his place so I had it shipped straight from Hawaii to him. A very kind offer on his part. The specs on luthier # 1's guitar changed from rosewood, black limba and koa to all koa - the fingerboard. There had already been a revision or three to the other guitar, when I asked luthier # 2 if he'd use some of the same wood for the body on what he's building me. I didn't ask luthier # 2 about using the same lumber until a couple months after it shipped. I'm pretty sure he was made fully aware that the wood was still drying and it would be a minute. He agreed and seemed to like the idea as much as I did ( do ). So now i'm having two guitars built from the same wet wood. The wood drys, and drys, and drys some more. If memory serves me correctly the koa was at the correct moisture content level in Oct of 06. A Jan 07 delivery date of some koa wasnt met. I was a little dissapointed to say the least, right now i can't even remeber why that date wasn't met. I guess shit happens sometimes.

Too tired to finish the post now, definetly starting to ramble in my head, and theres so much more to be said. Hopefully when i get these guitars i get it, because at this point in the process sometimes i just don't.

[joel]

I ordered a guitar from Mr. Thorn, and it arrived as a wonderful instrument. I didn't feel I was risking much because of his reputation and his personality. I've got a Chapin in my sights next. Somehow I just believe that when I order one, it will be choice when it arrives. I wish I'd ordered a Heatley when the wait was shorter, and I may still some day. And I plan to own a Lenz, Suhr, and maybe a Grosh & Anderson at some point too. I think I've got about 30 years left of playing, and I think I can fit a lot of nice instruments in that time!

[big mike]

As another Thorn owner, I'll tell you point blank, you won't be sorry with Bill Chapin's stuff either. He's more fender influenced as I see it, but has REALLY brought mad scientist to a new level. LOL

[John Page]

Back at ya Vincenzo...

[go7]

I`ve been waiting 16 months for 2 Heatley`s with much more to do. With any luck I might get one in say 18-20 months maybe.I`m sure Scott will take care of me and the wait will be worth it. He was backlogged with orders. Good Luck!

[Quinny]

A few guys have summed it up well... .gotta know what works for YOU when ordering a custom. I spoke to a load of builders before ordering my 335 style through Heatley. Definite vibe there, I knew he understood what I was on about in terms of feel and tone. The guitar was absolutely nailed.

Why do guys sell them, often very quickly? I guess a year+ is a long time for some and their tastes/requirements change. Many aren't 100% what it is they want tonally when they order so when it arrives it might not hit the spot. Some order when a small builder is in fashion, with no real thought as to whether it's right for them or not. Some order as much 'bling' as possible with little/no thought to how it all adds up to tone. And I guess some get frustrated with extended wait times and bad comms, with no real desire to keep the guitar when it eventually arrives.

Know what you want specifically, check out a lot of builders and find one you have a good vibe with, try get an idea of wait time (but assume a little extra just in case) and in most cases you'll be fine.

Q.

[edwarddavis]

Wow , this sure is a thread I wrote that came back. Well after two years and a lot of your responses . I can understand why it takes a long time to build a great guitar . Not still sure about selling it after the wait but thats me.
thanks for all the great info .

[prsflame]

I recently sold off a huge chunck of my guitar collection. I'm down to 9 guitars. Out of those 9, only 2 that remain are not custom builds.

I own custom guitars built by Thorn, Mcnaught, and Suhr. The shortest custom build was 3 months, and the longest was 15. I'm pleased with how all of my guitars turned out. When Thorns 131 and 132 were completed, last year,my GAS was finished. I realized that for me, there is nothing better, and nothing else out there can give me what I have. I spec'd all my guitars with neck shapes, woods, and pickup options that I could not find simply "running the racks" I knew EXACTLY what I wanted, and got it in spades from all 3 of the above builders

[MOJO]

i'm 3 for 3 in the custom built guitar field ( 2 Thorns and a Heatley ) each instrument exceeded my expectations by a long shot in every category....feel, tone and quality of materials/workmanship and honestly i've never found anything that compare off the rack except maybe a few
Anderson's, Suhr's and PRS that some of the bigger stores carry

[tequilaboy85]

I've got some custom built guitars in the last year:2 Hubers,1 Schroeder,1 Briggs and 1 Thorn.Plus I've bought used a McNaught,a Driskill and had a couple of Tylers and some Suhrs.
Most of my custom orders are really custom guitars:I mean that they have specs that you can't find on a "off the rack" guitar.I really like to try very strange and exotics woods that a normal guitar doesn't use.
The long wait is something that you can see positively:this way you have a lot of time to save the funds for those guitars.On the other hand,like Quinny said,it should happen that the guitar that you have spec'd a lot time ago it doesn't suits your needs anymore when it's delivered.
The only guitars that I've playd that are amazing off the racks are the Tyler and Suhr.

[Jon Silberman]

I'm at the point where I prefer the experience of buying a guitar that's "almost there" off-the-rack and then moving it the extra yards together with my guitar tech. This works well for me especially with Fenders, is fun, and is easier on my wallet and patience. But the key ingredient is my tech, Phil Jacoby, because he's so good at creating the results I crave.

This being said, if money were no object, Ron Thorn, Bill Chapin, and Terry McInturff, for starters, would be hearing from me tomorrow!

[Zane]

Lentz built two for me...
five months was the wait time on both...