Hardwire DL-8 delays Vs. Line 6 M9 / 13 ????

[amorica]

How do the delays compare sound wise ? I'm trying to figure out which path to go . I know the M9 is a more user friendly with more options etc. But delay sound wise how does the Hardwire compare? Is it that much better? I know the Line 6 aren't the greatest but I've used them quite a bit as do many other pros. I really only use the Lo-fi setting because its more of a darker dirtier delay which to me sounds the closest to getting a Ibanez ad-9 type sounds or at least in the vicinity .
I've found the dirt in the M9 not to bad but I'm still using the gain out of my amps.( Fender Super sonic 22 and a Ugly 18watt PTP) So the M9 would just be used for the delays and mods. Please help me out here as I'm ready to pull the trigger and don't have much time. Gigging this weekend and need something on the floor.
Thanks everybody for the useful info as usual !!! :bow

[eriwebnerr]

It's funny you mention this - I'm going through about the same thing. I put the DL8 in my loop after adding the hardwire reverb (rv7) made such a HUGE difference (I have the M9 running before the amp). So it might be an unfair comparison, but dialing in a nice analog delay on both, the digitech is head and shoulders better.

Even running both before, the DL8 just has a more organic, better blend with the overall tone. The looper on the DL8 is also ingenious and sooo easy compared to the M9 - you just cant get delay WHILE looping.

I really hate to say it almost because the M9 is a great unit, very versatile and compact. A player could certainly be happy with it and I really like the drives. I may be an odd ball, but I think they are the best part of the unit. But it really doesn't play well in the loop and I'm finding I like the tones of the Hardwire pedals better. So now I'm thinking of getting a Nova Drive and the new rotary Hardwire pedal and selling off the M9.

But I'm waiting for NAMM anouncements first - just in case!

[iivv145]

I've had both of these pedal, and I still have the M9, but I sold my DL-8 cause I like my DD-7 better. The Dl-8 in my opinion has cleaner hi-def delays, which I don't think the M9 can touch, but the versatility in the M9 amazing. Just yesterday I added and expression pedal, and that makes the M9 a beast. In some cases I've brought just my M9, left the other pedals at home. I'm my opinion I would get the M9, it does everything pretty well.

[amorica]

Wow 2 opinions I totally agree with !!! Not sure what to do. I'm not into clean delay sounds at all . The DL-8 sounds like it can get pretty dirty on the lo-fi / analog and tape modes. Is this true guys?

[JoeB63]

The technical difference is that the DL-8 keeps the dry signal analog, while the M9 does not.

I like the DL-8. I had a M13 and after using it extensively for several months I thought that the there was a bit of 'playing feel' lost using the M13 versus taking it out of the chain, or having it bypassed in its true bypass setting. Not something that would matter the least on a gig, but nonetheless it was bugging me. Disclaimer: It could have been my imagination.

I also like the Boss DD-7, which also keeps the dry signal analog.

[amorica]

Their Rotary sounds pretty descent as well as I would be looking for a trem

[amorica]

I thought about hitting up JHS pedals since he'll mod just about anything and see if he can fix some of the issuses with the DL-8 . Like the tap tempo on and off as well as maybe a longer loop time.

[amorica]

The technical difference is that the DL-8 keeps the dry signal analog, while the M9 does not.

I like the DL-8. I had a M13 and after using it extensively for several months I thought that the there was a bit of 'playing feel' lost using the M13 versus taking it out of the chain, or having it bypassed in its true bypass setting. Not something that would matter the least on a gig, but nonetheless it was bugging me. Disclaimer: It could have been my imagination.

I also like the Boss DD-7, which also keeps the dry signal analog.

I had a M13 as well and thought it was ok but was overkill for me. So I know the sounds as well as owning the DL4 for years but I thought the M9 would be perfect. Then I heard the DL-8 and thought it sounded fantastic!!! Is the Pro guitar video and the Hardwire website a good representation ?

" The technical difference is that the DL-8 keeps the dry signal analog, while the M9 does not."
Can you elaborate on that?? do you mean running the DL-8 in stereo in an effects loop etc. ? Thanks for your help

[fred_]

I too would be interested to know if the DL-8 really does keep the dry signal analog. I have a Hardwire CR-7 chorus, and it converts the dry signal to digital. I know this because when i run it in series it works great, but when run in parallel (amorica, is this what you mean when you say "in stereo in an effects loop"?) it messes with the phase/sound of the signal when it's engaged, and the sound gets a little funky- kinda hollow sounding. And i cannot get it corrected, even with the phase switch on my parallel looper pedal.

[amorica]

I too would be interested to know if the DL-8 really does keep the dry signal analog. I have a Hardwire CR-7 chorus, and it converts the dry signal to digital. I know this because when i run it in series it works great, but when run in parallel (amorica, is this what you mean when you say "in stereo in an effects loop"?) it messes with the phase/sound of the signal when it's engaged, and the sound gets a little funky- kinda hollow sounding. And i cannot get it corrected, even with the phase switch on my parallel looper pedal.

Yes !! Thank you . I stand corrected . Thats what I meant. I know the DL-8 has stereo ins and outs. didn't know if their was a better way to utilize them

[Agitator]

The DL-8 sounds like it can get pretty dirty on the lo-fi / analog and tape modes. Is this true guys?
The lo-fi mode gets pretty dirty. The "tape" (I think) changes the EQ a little to make it sound like it's being re-recorded on a piece of tape but I think the idea is that the "tape" mode is supposed to sound like a clean, well-maintained tape echo and the "lo-fi" mode is supposed to sound like an old one with a worn-out tape.

[amorica]

The lo-fi mode gets pretty dirty. The "tape" (I think) changes the EQ a little to make it sound like it's being re-recorded on a piece of tape but I think the idea is that the "tape" mode is supposed to sound like a clean, well-maintained tape echo and the "lo-fi" mode is supposed to sound like an old one with a worn-out tape.

Thats what I wanted to hear !! Sounds good ??

[Agitator]

It does sound good but I still have mixed feelings about this pedal. If all you want is a lo-fi sound, you might be better off with an OceanEFX Vintage Echo. All that does is simulate a lo-fi analog sound, and it sounds beautiful. The lo-fi sound is only one small part of what the DL-8 does. The thing about the DL-8 is that it does a lot of different things well, but I'm not sure it's great at any of them. I bought it more for the looping and tap tempo capabilities and while they *work*, I'm not crazy about either of them.

[JoeB63]

" The technical difference is that the DL-8 keeps the dry signal analog, while the M9 does not."
Can you elaborate on that?? do you mean running the DL-8 in stereo in an effects loop etc. ? Thanks for your help

Yes. These are digital delays (the repeats are generated by a digital processor), so there has to be an analog-digital-analog conversion happening. In the DL-8, the incoming signal goes through an analog to digital conversion and the delay repeats are created based on that signal.... BUT, before the final analog signal comes out of the output jack, the original analog (unconverted) dry signal gets mixed with the digitally created delays. In other words, from the view of the output of the pedal, only the repeats went through that analog-digital-analog conversion process --- the original signal (dry signal) at the output was unconverted.

That works for digital delays, but you can't do that for effects that alter the entire incoming sound. Digital tremolo is a good example. You can't (like in the delay example above) mix a dry, non-tremolo'd signal with an effected signal. The whole signal needs to be "tremolo'd." The same is basically true of digital choruses. The M9 and M13, since they do a lot more than delay, including trem and chorus and OD and other weird stuff, has to do A/D/A to the entire signal (so to speak). There's no way to do mix analog with digital just at the output (when any effect is active on the device).

[JoeB63]

I too would be interested to know if the DL-8 really does keep the dry signal analog. I have a Hardwire CR-7 chorus, and it converts the dry signal to digital. I know this because when i run it in series it works great, but when run in parallel (amorica, is this what you mean when you say "in stereo in an effects loop"?) it messes with the phase/sound of the signal when it's engaged, and the sound gets a little funky- kinda hollow sounding. And i cannot get it corrected, even with the phase switch on my parallel looper pedal.

Yes, see my explanation above. It doesn't make sense for choruses to have an analog dry line. It's the nature of the effect. The CR-7 does an A/D/A conversion to the entire signal when it's on ---- and it's true bypass (via a relay) when it's off.

[amorica]

Yes. These are digital delays (the repeats are generated by a digital processor), so there has to be an analog-digital-analog conversion happening. In the DL-8, the incoming signal goes through an analog to digital conversion and the delay repeats are created based on that signal.... BUT, before the final analog signal comes out of the output jack, the original analog (unconverted) dry signal gets mixed with the digitally created delays. In other words, from the view of the output of the pedal, only the repeats went through that analog-digital-analog conversion process --- the original signal (dry signal) at the output was unconverted.

That works for digital delays, but you can't do that for effects that alter the entire incoming sound. Digital tremolo is a good example. You can't (like in the delay example above) mix a dry, non-tremolo'd signal with an effected signal. The whole signal needs to be "tremolo'd." The same is basically true of digital choruses. The M9 and M13, since they do a lot more than delay, including trem and chorus and OD and other weird stuff, has to do A/D/A to the entire signal (so to speak). There's no way to do mix analog with digital just at the output (when any effect is active on the device).
Thanks. Perfect example!!! Makes total sense

[amorica]

It does sound good but I still have mixed feelings about this pedal. If all you want is a lo-fi sound, you might be better off with an OceanEFX Vintage Echo. All that does is simulate a lo-fi analog sound, and it sounds beautiful. The lo-fi sound is only one small part of what the DL-8 does. The thing about the DL-8 is that it does a lot of different things well, but I'm not sure it's great at any of them. I bought it more for the looping and tap tempo capabilities and while they *work*, I'm not crazy about either of them.

It does sound nice ,but no tap tempo. If i could get an exact sounding Ibanez AD-9 with tap tempo and maybe a loop feature i'd be set or if i was just going for a no thrills pedal just tone

[Agitator]

It does sound nice ,but no tap tempo. If i could get an exact sounding Ibanez AD-9 with tap tempo and maybe a loop feature i'd be set or if i was just going for a no thrills pedal just tone
Well if you want a few bells & whistles like tap tempo, I think you'll be happy with the DL-8. Try before you buy if you can.

[amorica]

Well I went to Sam Ash ( I really can't stand them or Guitar Center) ,but actually got lucky. Had a halfway descent sales guy for once. They Had the DL-8. So I grabbed a 335 and plugged into a used Vox AC30cc that was on the floor. I played the pedal for over an hour. Wasn't bad but not near as good as I'd hoped. The Lo-fi wasn't bad but after listening to the samples online I feel they kind of misrepresent the sound. It was a lot cleaner then I expected. I was only able to achieve those sounds by driving the amp to get more of the grit that I expected . ( I mean kind of common sense)So I'm sure thats what they did to make it sound grittier. But some delays like the Ibanez AD9 ( which I know is a all Analog )you can be running thru a Twin and still get those nice dark Gritty repeats. And what drove me nuts was the tap tempo everyone was talking about. Even when you change sounds from lets say the lo-fi to the tape the tap tempo shuts off. SUPER ANNOYING !!!!! The Loop mode was ok but I realized that not being able to use any of the delays really sucked, sorry but it did.
But all was not lost. I walked down to the end of the counter and spotted a " used" M9
in perfect condition for ,get this $279!!! I told him to let me check it out and if he could give me that price out the door I would take it. So I plug it in to the same exact setup and to me the M9 just sounded better. I mean Its no AD9 but the Lo-fi especially and some of the other delays were just a lot closer or at least darker for what I was looking for. And of corse the looper just killed it . I always liked the Classic distortion as well as the clean boost just to hit the front of your amp. And the SUPER BONUS was I ended up walking out with it for exactly $289 . A No brainer. Just need a expression pedal now for the feedback on the delays.
Don't get me wrong the DL-8 was a cool sounding pedal. Hopefully they can implement some of the needs of the consumer and fix all the corky problems. To me you just can't utilize the features on stage on the DL-8. To many work arounds.
Thanks for everyones help!!! You guys have always come thru for me in my darkest GAS moments.

[CrispyTone]

The technical difference is that the DL-8 keeps the dry signal analog, while the M9 does not.

I like the DL-8. I had a M13 and after using it extensively for several months I thought that the there was a bit of 'playing feel' lost using the M13 versus taking it out of the chain, or having it bypassed in its true bypass setting. Not something that would matter the least on a gig, but nonetheless it was bugging me. Disclaimer: It could have been my imagination.

I also like the Boss DD-7, which also keeps the dry signal analog.

I e-mailed Digitech and asked if the dry signal was kept analog in the DL-8 because I read that numerous times in numerous places, but the Digitech guy said in went thru AD/DA conversion. I don't know what to think.

[JoeB63]

I e-mailed Digitech and asked if the dry signal was kept analog in the DL-8 because I read that numerous times in numerous places, but the Digitech guy said in went thru AD/DA conversion. I don't know what to think.

There was a Digitech technical guy here on this board who explained clearly that the dry line on the DL-8 stayed analog. Search for the thread. I started it (about 2 years ago or so). Perhaps that guy was lying. I know that folks have tested the Boss DD-series pedals and proven that their dry lines stay analog.

Per the DL-8: I can't hear or feel any tonal change with that pedal, like I could with the M13. The Boss DD-20 altered my tone/feel a little, but I think that was because it boosted the signal level a tiny bit. The DD-7 doesn't have any negative effects as far as I can tell.