Is the Amp Kit market oversaturated?

[Mickey_C]

I have been considering entering the amp kit market with some high-end parts. I hesitate because I wonder about two things:

A) Is it more of a headache than I could really stand,

and

B) Is that market segment already pushed to the limits?

I am considering it only because it could offset some of my current production costs - I could manufacture some parts in greater quantity.

[Blue Strat]

Originally posted by Mickey_C
I have been considering entering the amp kit market with some high-end parts. I hesitate because I wonder about two things:

A) Is it more of a headache than I could really stand,

and

B) Is that market segment already pushed to the limits?

I am considering it only because it could offset some of my current production costs - I could manufacture some parts in greater quantity.

This isn't quite the same, but not too far off.

I know a guy locally who was doing the kit building thing (selling finished kit amps) with premium parts and was selling a lot of kits at ridiculously low prices. As soon as he raised his prices to reflect a business model that he could actually survive on, his orders slowed WAY down.

Are you planning on paying income taxes? If so, don't forget you pay the whole 14.5% for social security that your employer normally pays half of. So if you're like a lot of us, be prepared to pay out close to 50% in income tax if your state has income tax.

Planning on quitting your day job? Are you covered by a health insurance plan? If not, figure on $6K to $10K per year for yourself and a spouse (if you have one).

Figure on spending at least 15 to 25% of your time on customer service issues (you don't get paid for this time). This could include answering emails or phone calls about your products, helping people who've never soldered before figure out what they did wrong in the kit building process OVER THE PHONE, replacing "defective" parts that may or may not be defective or may or may not have been destroyed by the kit builder.

Writing instructions for kits isn't trivial and it's impossible to proof read your own instructions. You'll have to do several tests with someone who hasn't built a kit before, or you'll be dealing with a lot of frustrated customers.

I'm sure I'm missing a lot of things but these are some very real issues you'll be dealing with.

Good luck.

[TheAmpNerd]

Hey Mike,

I don't think anyone could have said it better.

[Greggy]

After reading Mike's post, all I have to say is God bless David Allen!:D

[Blue Strat]

Originally posted by Greggy
After reading Mike's post, all I have to say is God bless David Allen!:D

You're right. David has pulled off what few have been able to and has a sterling reputation to boot.

One thing I forgot to mention is that living in a relatively low cost of living (housing) area is probably mandatory.

[Mickey_C]

Well, thanks, but I think I can take care of my own financial future, for better or worse. I'll spare the rant about how other people in the business keep warning me not to enter it at all. LOL. It's already too late for that guys, so let it go.

Anybody care to answer my original question?

I am an amplifier manufacturer, considering if the market is already oversaturated for kits.

I could easily add a number of kits to my lineup, that would help offset some of my substantial investments in tooling up. But it seems there's already a number of kits out there, and I suspect that market segment is already oversaturated. It's bad enough having parts shelved for amps I have not yet constructed, it would be worse to have ones shelved that were never intended to be constructed by me.

Anyone?

[TieDyedDevil]

So you're asking whether we, as potential kit buyers, would be interested to see another vendor...

Like most things, the answer is: it depends.

Are you bringing something to the market that none of the other vendors offer? Will what you have be compelling enough to attract customers who'd otherwise turn to established vendors? Finally, are you offering something that's unique enough that the other vendors will have a hard time matching your offering if you find success?

Based on your original query, which mentioned "high-end parts", I'd have to say that, IMO, you won't be offering enough to attract customers unless you've somehow cornered the market on some very important components.

[Blue Strat]

Originally posted by TieDyedDevil
So you're asking whether we, as potential kit buyers, would be interested to see another vendor...

Like most things, the answer is: it depends.

Are you bringing something to the market that none of the other vendors offer? Will what you have be compelling enough to attract customers who'd otherwise turn to established vendors? Finally, are you offering something that's unique enough that the other vendors will have a hard time matching your offering if you find success?

Based on your original query, which mentioned "high-end parts", I'd have to say that, IMO, you won't be offering enough to attract customers unless you've somehow cornered the market on some very important components.

What he said.

[Mickey_C]

Are you bringing something to the market that none of the other vendors offer? Will what you have be compelling enough to attract customers who'd otherwise turn to established vendors? Finally, are you offering something that's unique enough that the other vendors will have a hard time matching your offering if you find success?

[/B]

Well, there's nobody in the the world that offers something nobody else offers, that's a fact.

The question is whether or not there are already too many amplifier parts and kits being offered than the demand, which would mean the market is oversaturated.

I am really interested in how people feel about that topic; I would guess that nobody really feels they know.

My guess is that the amplifier kit market is near to saturation. Most people who want to "build their own" already have, and there might already be too many kits available for each amp to really make business sense for anybody else to enter - I think the margins may be too tight.

Anybody else care to share their conception of this?

[sampleinajar]

I think you have come to a pretty reasonable conclusion. I also think that having a significantly lower price than anything out there would be the only thing that could expand the market. That would be tough to do.

Good luck-

Steve

[tonezoneonline]

I think the people who want high end will probably source the parts themselves and get exactly what they want.
I beleive the market in kits these days is the "bang for the buck " kit.If this is the case you just can't compete with Weber's
and a couple other's that are out there already.
I don't know if the market is saturated or not but some pretty simple match tells me I don't want to try and compete with what's out there now.

[KLB]

It seems to me that the Boutique Gear market is hyper-saturated. Buyers are faced with what Barry Schwartz calls the "Paradox of Choice" in his excellent book by the same name.

If it were me, I'd concentrate on building the best quality amp for the lowest price that makes it worthwhile to you. Don't offer too many options (Paradox of Choice.) On the other hand, offering something unique is a plus. Your upcoming power-scaled amp is a great example. Many, perhaps most, Gear Page hounds apparently have several guitars, amps, pedals, etc.. Give them a reason to want to buy one of your products. This formula is still working for some of the builders who frequent this forum.

That being said, you should offer your chassis and any unique or hard to source parts that fit it. It seems to be the best of it's type on the market. Doing this will help offset the cost of one of the most expensive parts that you use. Make it clear that you don't offer advice for how to build the rest of the amp, other than free schematics and parts recommendations. This way you won't be saddled with support issues.

Best Wishes,
Ken

[daveS]

Originally posted by Mickey_C


The question is whether or not there are already too many amplifier parts and kits being offered than the demand, which would mean the market is oversaturated.

I am really interested in how people feel about that topic; I would guess that nobody really feels they know.

My guess is that the amplifier kit market is near to saturation. Most people who want to "build their own" already have, and there might already be too many kits available for each amp to really make business sense for anybody else to enter - I think the margins may be too tight.

Anybody else care to share their conception of this?


Hey there Mike,

From what I know there are a few guys out there that offer kits . . Weber, GDS, Ceriatone, Trinity to name a few. Of these, I think Nik at Ceriatone is a very cool guy and probably is the best bang for the buck. Honestly. The only issue there is that he is overseas.

That being said, I do not think the kit market is saturated . . . at least from the classic Marshall type kit perspective. Each kit has its own little nuance that makes it slightly different. I cannot comment on Fenderesque kits because I'm not a Fender amp guy.

As a consumer and an owner of many many amps, what I personally look for (kit or non-kit) is something unique and versatile. Versatile for me personally is being able to play the amp at home at low levels (perhaps with with an attenuator), or gig it at higher levels. I don't nee a bunch of knobs and switches for this and that. Unique is all a matter of perspective but to give an example of unique amps out there, how about Carr Mercury, Aiken Tomcat, Kingsley Deluxe 1, Emery Superbaby just to name a few. They are all in the spirit of something already out there but they have a twist on them that makes then unique.

I guess what I am getting at is that I would buy a kit if it was something that I could build, that was like one of your "turn key" amps, but could save a few $$ and have the experience of building it myself.

Here is what I would like to see in a kit :

1) high quality parts

2) reliability (of course depends on how will I solder)

3) Add on options like a) reverb, b) on board attenuator, c) power scaling, c) tremolo, d) channel switching.

4) a low power, high gain amp I could use at home or for recording.

It seems like there are a lot of clone kits out there for amps like the Matchless Lightning 15, the Marshall 1974X, JTM, AC30, Champ, Tweeds, etc . . you know them all. But, what if I wanted a kit for something like a 12 watt amp with one channel like a high headroom Fender with Reverb, and the other channel like an Brian Mayesque AC30 on steroids . . .plus some kind of built in attenuator or power scaling to handle at home practice ? There's nothing out there. Unlikely for a kit ? I don't know.

If you are looking to offer your Londoner as it stands today as a kit, I believe sales will be generated by being able to give the best bang for the buck. That varies with each person. For me I am not hung up on NOS that and that with Mullards and "exactly like the original" turret boards and stuff. I just want quality parts and a killer sounding amp that sounds like the original or even sweeter ! No hum, no crackling, doesn't fall apart after mocing it a few times, etc. So for me, price is important. Probably the most important though, is the guy who makes the kit or amp. If that person is good at customer service and stands behind his stuff, SOLD !

I am not sure if I helped or not . . I am just ranting. Good luck Mike and remember, these are just my opinions dude. I'm just a guitar player ;)

Cheers
-Dave

P.S. Looking forward to the Manchester

[Greggy]

You know what would grab my attention: a 10 watt SLO. Not sure if that's feasible. But there has to be numerous folks with home studios that want a "hi gain" amp for basement recording. I know that's why I bought the Allen Class Act II kit. But that's a marshall design. A Soldano SLO clone would be interesting. I remember James Peters commenting on the inherent problems with small wattage hi gain amps. Who knows, the problems may not be insurmountable.

[TheAmpNerd]

Originally posted by Mickey_C
Well, there's nobody in the the world that offers something nobody else offers, that's a fact.

The question is whether or not there are already too many amplifier parts and kits being offered than the demand, which would mean the market is oversaturated.

I am really interested in how people feel about that topic; I would guess that nobody really feels they know.

My guess is that the amplifier kit market is near to saturation. Most people who want to "build their own" already have, and there might already be too many kits available for each amp to really make business sense for anybody else to enter - I think the margins may be too tight.

Anybody else care to share their conception of this?

Your guess is probably right.

However, if you offer a kit of your amp, then that might also take some of the amps sales away (as a finished product). Hmmm, are you selling direct amps or through stores, then if stores are you killing sales by offering the same thing as a kit?

What parts can you offer that I or somebody else can't already purchase through distribution or ebay?

If building kits, how are yours going to be any different than anybody elses?

Good luck whatever you descide to do.

[gkelm]

My feeling is that the market is close to saturation with kits...there are only so many people who can/will take the time to build. A while back I had planned to build an 18 watt (still might), but ended up finding a gem on ebay, so I chickened out. :)

That said, one niche you might consider is offering par-built kits...perhaps a populated circuit board & all the other components. To me, a novice, that would be a great alternative, & less intimidating, if it were close in price to comparable kits.

All the best in your pursuits.
Greg

[JamesPeters]

My two cents worth:

Chris Hurley of AX84 and I are friends (he sells amp kits). I'll give you the short version of his experiences--you can be in the business but don't expect it to be free of headaches. Sometimes LOTS of headaches. After all you're pandering to a lot of people who don't want to learn anything about electronics--this *will* cause problems.

I've sold a few kits of my own designs, but only to people whom I sort of interviewed beforehand (trying to ensure they had enough electronics knowledge/experience to get over the basic issues at least). All of those kits resulted in a fair bit of support time spent, which was not factored into the selling price. (If it were, the kits never would've sold at that price.) I resolved to never sell kits again after this, except to friends...if they have enough knowledge to still make it worth my while, that is.

If what you mean by "high end parts" is that you're going to sell a kit with a higher price tag, you'll be struggling in a market which is already quite full (I wouldn't say saturated) of kits. Unless those parts make your coffee for you in the morning and say "I love you" everyday, it's not going to be seen as worth it. After all the most important part of the amp's sound is its design, not whether it uses really expensive capacitors or not. The days of "premium parts" promises are ending, the way I see it...those marketing claims have been scrutinized quite closely in the last few years, and embarrassingly enough by those in the homebrewing community (who can buy the same parts themselves without much extra expense).

However...

If you have a product which is unique and of good quality, and you don't bs about it, and the price is fair (it doesn't have to be rock-bottom, but it has to compete)--and most importantly, it's actually worth your while to do this--you can make a go at it.

Good luck!

[David B]

Originally posted by Mickey_C
I have been considering entering the amp kit market with some high-end parts. I hesitate because I wonder about two things:

A) Is it more of a headache than I could really stand,

and

B) Is that market segment already pushed to the limits?

I am considering it only because it could offset some of my current production costs - I could manufacture some parts in greater quantity.

Only you can answer question 1

No market is oversaturated if you are offering, higher quality, great prices, excellent service, and are willing to educate customers about why you product is better. The term "high end parts" is very vague in today's market place, if you outline your plan with more detail you will get more detailed answers…

Ask yourself why people will want what you have to sell? Guitar players who build gear is a smaller segment than simply guitar players…and guitar players you are into the high end parts and willing to pay for them is an even smaller segment. Make sure you have a plan, everything that lives needs to have a pulse…what will your pulse be?

[daveS]

Originally posted by JamesPeters
My two cents worth:

. . . . After all you're pandering to a lot of people who don't want to learn anything about electronics--this *will* cause problems. . . .



James,
I for one very much appreciate a talented and knowledgable amplifier designer, builder and artist like yourself adding in your valuable comments to this post. I only wish that you did not make the assumption that a lot of us do not want to learn anything about electronics. I believe the contrary to be true. I'm sure that there are several folks out there who have a desire to learn and appreciate electronics as well as play through the amps. Personally, I am not one of those in the "lot" who does not have an appreciation for, or the desire to learn about the art of electronics design. But then again, what do I know . . . I'm only an engineer and a musician. :)

Just my friendly .02 cents.

-d

[RL in Fla]

Dave , I imagine James had sheer number of people in mind as opposed to the "want to learn" segment . I'm *almost* in the same boat with you in that I spent 28 years in Hospital electronics work (albeit without the sheepskin, hence the "almost" ) , but sheer #'s probably support James' comments . And then there's the % of _% divisor , re: how many are gonna buy brand X .

"gkelm -
My feeling is that the market is close to saturation with kits...there are only so many people who can/will take the time to build. A while back I had planned to build an 18 watt (still might), but ended up finding a gem on ebay........ "

There's another segment/% , and you can sub __ 's for 18 watt .

" James : After all the most important part of the amp's sound is its design, not whether it uses really expensive capacitors or not. The days of "premium parts" promises are ending, the way I see it...those marketing claims have been scrutinized quite closely in the last few years, and embarrassingly enough by those in the homebrewing community "

huge +1 in my usual worthless opinion , and ditto David on defining "high end" . Give me a good circuit , good trannys , tell me "wirewound, carbon comp, or metal film " and the values/voltage ratings
on the caps , and I can jockey GE/RCA/Brimar/Mullard and Emi/Celestion/Jensen/"RollEmAndSmokeEm's" in & out of the equation all day long myself . As long as it's soldered and laid out right , design and tubes/speakers is where the "mojo" is until someone comes up with a "component aging machine" . I built a 5F kit and loved it . Would I ever build another one ? No way . Not when a AA764 Champ faces the front , has room inside , 3 pots , room for a standby switch , and a faceplate that's not chrome . ;) Mickey's have all that covered . I just wonder how many kits Graydon has sold at that price point , ya know ? Same with David Allen's Fender-flavored kits . Superb all the way around from one end to the other , but that's a nice chunk o' change for a box of stuff when you're John Q. Public lookin' at it on your 'puter .

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

side note - great post :

" sabbath90 : some point in the future solid state will get to the point of sounding very tubelike ... however it will only sound like THAT tube. tubes are variables. they're incredibly fun to experiment with. i love trying all kinds of different tubes in my amps...it's fun. it's unique too. mixing different brands of 12ax7s can make my ac30 sound completely different from your ac30. "

then we can plug in different tube model chips , a/la JRC vs RCA 4558's vs TI 072's :D


huge prop to David B for his "tweaks" pages , BTW .

[fullerplast]

Take a look at a couple of relative extremes in the kits available. Look at the Weber kits as a lower limit on pricing, with a very attractive total cost, but cheap parts and no support. You get most of what you need to build an amp, but some of the amps have not even been built per the design and layout so your chances of immediate success are much lower. At the other end, look at the GDS and Allen kits. They cost almost twice as much but are so well documented and wrung out that you are all but guaranteed to get a working amp if you are careful reading instructions.

Ask yourself where you would fit just between those examples and what would make someone buy your kit over what already is available.

Also ask youself how much support time do you want to be willing to give. Trying to debug long distance can get very time consuming. Look at your non-labor profit per kit and divide that by a reasonable hourly wage for yourself and see if it makes sense for you, between labor to kit the parts, put good instructions together, advertise your kits, and support your kits.

[Mickey_C]

Everybody has given some great feedback here, and some great ideas to ponder too!

I liked the idea about offering kits that can be built out with a number of options, but I am not sure how that would really differ from just building your own from scratch.

I am not going to enter the fully saturated Marshall/Fender arena, though I may offer a few products that I think people deserve to have, even in a kit amp. I will be concentrating my efforts on getting my own products out to market instead.

The singular kit I am still considering to offer, is the Matchless Hotbox. I believe there would be demand for that, and if I offered all the parts, with a proven layout, and a circuit board just needing to have wires and components soldered, I think people would go for it. They're simple to build, and could be under 150.00, including even the tubes, and the backlit control plate.

Once again, thanks for all the valuable feedback and comments!

Mikey C.

[JamesPeters]

Originally posted by daveS
James,
I for one very much appreciate a talented and knowledgable amplifier designer, builder and artist like yourself adding in your valuable comments to this post. I only wish that you did not make the assumption that a lot of us do not want to learn anything about electronics. I believe the contrary to be true. I'm sure that there are several folks out there who have a desire to learn and appreciate electronics as well as play through the amps. Personally, I am not one of those in the "lot" who does not have an appreciation for, or the desire to learn about the art of electronics design. But then again, what do I know . . . I'm only an engineer and a musician. :)

Just my friendly .02 cents.

-d


Honestly, no offense meant but I speak only what I know from experience over the last few years. The ones who do want to learn are usually trying something along the lines of AX84, since even if they're building a kit they bought from Chris Hurley they're able to read about others' experiences in the building/troubleshooting/modifying aspects.

Anyway if you want to learn, you're not one of the people I'm speaking of. :) I could go further and say that a fair number of people who still "want to learn something about electronics" will only learn a very small amount from making a kit that "holds your hand" as you build it. Without a fair bit of thought beforehand and during the process, it's not a big learning experience.

[Boogie92801]

Very interesting thread.

I, a would-be-consumer of an amp kit, have been looking at the available kits for a few months.

My reasons for buying a kit are:
I want a small wattage, great sounding, amp that fits my particular needs and I want to understand it and its guts. I am not buying a kit to save money per se’; I have both vintage and modern equipment now and gig regularly, but I don’t want to spend the ridiculous prices quality vintage gear demands (not that I already haven’t in the past).

Here is what I found: There are numerous sites dedicated to this hobby and plenty of information and opinions via the web. Most are devoted to the 18-watt and the 5E3. Weber offers other kits but without being an accomplished builder I feel left out. Allen and GDS offer very good projects but at prices that, when compared to e-bay amps make me question my intentions; see above.

Saturation? I don’t know but variety there is not.
Only Allen and Weber offer any variety and even they are based on existing designs.

Allen and GDS probably have the best reputation for tone.

A single channel low wattage kit with 6V6’s or EL84’s, with options like reverb or tremolo, in a combo or a head, with really clear instructions, might have a place if it was under a grand.

[loverocker]

Originally posted by Boogie92801

A single channel low wattage kit with 6V6’s or EL84’s, with options like reverb or tremolo, in a combo or a head, with really clear instructions, might have a place if it was under a grand.

There's the problem - that's actually a complicated amp. To do a kit with those options is very hard work:
* different valve compliment - oops, that could require a different power transformer
* extra Rs and Cs for the circuit
* different board layout, different chassis
* more space for extra knobs
* extra work to sort out the lead dress
* a *huge* amount of time and effort to write a set of instructions to cover the very different assemblies of the very different guts

IMHO, the best approach for newcomers is to start with a simple kit (Champ, AX84, etc), learn the basics by doing, and then generalise that learning to add the frills in a built-to-own-spec second or third build. There's plenty of advice - e.g. gleaning extra ideas from books like Kevin O Connor's TUT series.

[r9player]

For a beginner .. like me .. the STF Electronics Champ Kit was perfect. Now I have a Champ head perfect for my small room.
And it sounds pretty darn good too!

Although I must say when I compare the cost of a kit vs. a fully build amp, I'd be crazy to say that I build from a Kit to save myself money.
Don't think you can really save that way unless you can build your own chassis and find cheap parts easy.
But if you can those kind of things, you probably build amps because you are a mad crazed hobbyist that just loves to tinker with Tone.

And I think the bottom line for most amp kit buyers / builders would be the fun of it and the feeling of accomplishment.

I sure enjoyed building mine, but in the end I am left with an amp that only I will enjoy cuz nobody else will pay me even half what this amp is worth.

I think a very flexible kit would be very interesting, especially if it was easy to re-do and make it into a different option. (like remove parts 4 and 5 now add this to it .. )

Besides that .. if you told me you could give me a kit for $1K that would give me the sound of a /13 or a Bruno or a Dumble or .. you get my drift, if it would give me the same sound as an amp that costs 3-5 times as much I would most likely buy a kit like that.

[RL in Fla]

Originally posted by Boogie92801

A single channel low wattage kit with 6V6’s , with options like reverb or tremolo, in a combo or a head, with really clear instructions, might have a place if it was under a grand.

you just described Allen's V18 and Hot Fudge kits , minus the step-by-step walk-thru .

[tonezoneonline]

I have a AC30 chassis kit that I'm starting to put out to see how things go.It features Mercury Magnetics transformers and choke,Hoffman AC30 board kit with a .090 aluminum chassis.All quality parts such as Switchcraft jacks,Sprague and F&T caps,ceramic sockets and ohm selector switch for the multi tap output transformer.
I've only sold three and have not heard from anyone who has actually finished one yet.I have not had a chance to even put them on my website yet but have had some interest from some of the guys on this board.
I thought the Mercury Magnetics transformers and Hoffman kit would be a good marriage so we'll see.We have built one here at the shop and it's a very versatile amp.I'll try and put some sound bytes up soon.
Sorry for the shameless self promotion but several guys here have asked about these kits.
This is a chassis kit with no cabinet or faceplates so you can make it your own or look like anything you want.

[tonedaddy]

I think there might be strong interest in a Hotbox kit with quality compenents at a fair price. But I'm not sure you could translate success of failure in that kit to amp necessarilly.

It would also seem to be one you could test market fairly easilty without ramping up with a lot of part purchases. You may not make much with low quantity parts buys, but you'll find out if there's a market or not.

One danger in a Hotbox kit is if the schematic for what you're selling is out there, you better have a compelling offer in your kit.

In other words, if you can offer a package at the same price others can find the separate parts for, then you've got a compelling offer (and if you can make money off putting the kit parts and schematic in a box). If you're charging a 25% premium for your kit just to put together the parts in a box, that's not a very compelling offer for guys that are used to finding their own schematics and sourcing their parts.

[Thelonius]

Hi, I'm not sure if this will help you, but I'll give you my perspective as a consumer, who is interested in building his own amp but hasn't yet.

What keeps me from buying a kit and getting started. Too much info and too many choices.

too much info: There is a ton of info on the web about building amps. But I haven't found one place with a concise "here is just enough knowledge, yet a complete explanation for building your first amp." You know things like solder this to that, and this is why, as well as things like don't touch here or you will be electrocuted. Randall Aiken's site is probably as close as it gets but he gets pretty technical for a newbie like me.

too many choices (the part that impacts you more): I see tons of kits and parts out there at a vast range of prices. I know, or been taught at least that the quality of parts is every bit as important as values, and frequently the quality of the part doesn't relate to the price. There aren't a lot of 50 year old hammond transformers for sale, and those who have them often get them for little or nothing for example.

So while there are 1000 different choices for parts, the one that would probably get my attention and business is the one that really explains in practical detail what your parts/kits/upgrades do, and why I want them. It's all about the advertising/salesmanship. This kit is a 18watt clone, blah blah blah. This upgrade will change the tone in this way. etc etc. Things like that.

Edit: oh and some of the things I would be interested in that I don't think I can find out there now are low wattage or selectable wattage versions of a JCM800, and an 18watt or lower copy of a Mesa Triple Rec.

[r9player]

Hi Thelonius I actually feel the STF kit really explains everything really well, not sure if you've ever seen one.

[Thelonius]

No I haven't seen it, but I will take a look, thanks!

[loverocker]

You're not alone, Thelonius - it does take some pretty good research skills to piece together the many strands of know-how you need for a total understanding. Few homebrewers go for a total understanding though, and most rely on:
* following some very basic and easy-to-learn high voltage safety measures
* starting from a proven circuit
* their ears to tell them when things are working tonefully
* help and advice on troubleshooting

Did you try the theory document for the AX84 P1? It's at http://195.178.239.50/ax84/media/ax84_m35.pdf and describes how the amp in this schematic - http://195.178.239.50/ax84/media/ax84_m37.pdf - works. There are layout guides and pictures over at AX84, too, and links to a kit supplier.

It's a community of amp homebrewers though, so it's a lot more interactive than just "Do X to get Y", though. I see that as A Good Thing.

[The Cat]

I don't think the market is saturated for kits at all. Except maybe for champs and deluxes. I still haven't seen a C30 kit until I read this post.

I would defintely want great caps, connectors, switches, pots and wires. A quality chasis and faceplate. The high end expensive transformers, tubes and speakers I think should be a buffet style so you could possibly go cheap or high end depending on your situation.

[pfrischmann]

Originally posted by Mickey_C
Everybody has given some great feedback here, and some great ideas to ponder too!

I liked the idea about offering kits that can be built out with a number of options, but I am not sure how that would really differ from just building your own from scratch.

I am not going to enter the fully saturated Marshall/Fender arena, though I may offer a few products that I think people deserve to have, even in a kit amp. I will be concentrating my efforts on getting my own products out to market instead.

The singular kit I am still considering to offer, is the Matchless Hotbox. I believe there would be demand for that, and if I offered all the parts, with a proven layout, and a circuit board just needing to have wires and components soldered, I think people would go for it. They're simple to build, and could be under 150.00, including even the tubes, and the backlit control plate.

Once again, thanks for all the valuable feedback and comments!

Mikey C.

OHHH,
Do that! .I'd buy one right now. I would set up a chat room if I were you, so people can support each other. That makes it much easier on you. Metroamps. does a great job of this

[pfrischmann]

Originally posted by The Cat
I don't think the market is saturated for kits at all. Except maybe for champs and deluxes. I still haven't seen a C30 kit until I read this post.

I would defintely want great caps, connectors, switches, pots and wires. A quality chasis and faceplate. The high end expensive transformers, tubes and speakers I think should be a buffet style so you could possibly go cheap or high end depending on your situation.

I missed a c-30 kit...where did you see that?

[Richard Guy]

It is truly a labor of love ;)