Top Hat SD Headroom

[hemlock]

I love my Top Hat SD but I am beginning to think that I really really need a bit more headroom. The SD has almost exactly the tone I am searching for, but after A/B-ing it with a 57 Twin that my buddy is trying out, I find that there are some songs that I really need a louder clean tone on. My Pitbull 45 was just about perfect as far as clean headroom, but I like the tone of the SD so much more for my playing. I've tried both inputs, Ax7, AT7, AY7. I haven't tried swapping speakers yet. It has a Celset Vintage 30 and a stock Top Hat speaker.

Anyone who has played both, could you comment on the comparing clean tone/headroom between the Top Hat SD and the following- ( I know some are switchers)

TH Ambassador 50
TH Emplexador 50
Aiken Sabre
Fargen Bordeaux 6L6
Fuchs ODS 50
Bruno Cowtipper 45
Sewell Wampus Cat 50 (maybe a 35)
Flexi 50

Any other ideas will be appreciated.

[DestroyAllGuitars]

If you love your Tophat tone, IMO the only other amps in it's
league tonewise are the Brunos. The Cowtipper 45 would be your best bet. The Emplexador (which I have 2 of) is amazing
but is tonally a completely different beast. The Ambassador 50
would be logical but that sound is not Brian's forte, and he will tell
you that. For a big beautiful 6L6 tone, the Cowtipper 45 is the
one to beat. (I own 7 Tophats)

[cr8z4life]

I happen to love the Ambassador myself.....but it is a different camp than the super.....when you are using all the power it has a nice breakup where the ambassador is all about clean headroom...... are you looking for more clean headroom or just for the super to cut through more??

[hemlock]

I'm looking for more headroom. The Super cuts through fine but breaks up a bit early for some of the stuff we are doing. There are some songs where I need a fairly loud "Sex Machine" type clean.

[cr8z4life]

It sounds like you might like the ambassador....tight strong fender type cleans...huge sounding actually....and loves pedals for the dirty stuff.. I have a friend playing in a 10 piece band who plays through an ambassador 50 combo..... great gigging amp

[riffmeister]

If you want to retain the TopHat sound, you might want to look into the 35W or 50W Ambassador. I had a 50W Ambassador for a while, and with the right tubes & speakers, it is indeed possible to get a sound similar to the Super Deluxe, but with more headroom. The 35W Ambassador has quite a bit more headroom than the SD, too. The SD intentionally uses smallish power & OT trannies so that it will crunch a bit. The trannies on the 50W and 35W Ambassadors are quite a bit larger and will deliver more clean headroom.

cr8z4life has a 35W Ambassador for sale, btw.....

[DestroyAllGuitars]

The Super is running 6L6s and that is a very big part of it's
vibe and charm. I don't think you will be happy moving to the
small bottle 6V6's that are in the Ambassador 35. I would try
an Ambassador 50 or the Cowtipper 45. I think your jaw will
hit the floor when you hear either of these. They are both very
pedal friendly also. Try to demo them both if possible.

[illinimax]

Just a silly question, but are you running the SD with the rectifier in the hard mode? Also, have you tried different output tubes? I have a set of Philips 7581 tubes that sound great in my SD with quite a bit more headroom that the stock 6L6s.

[hemlock]

I've tried the rectifier in normal and soft modes. I have GE 6L6Cs in it now. I'll try some higher headroom tubes.

[riffmeister]

Originally posted by ROKY
I think that might be the way to go --Phillips 7581s, and maybe
go back to the 12ay7 in V1

yup, that's about the best you can do. but remember, the amp uses smaller trannies so that it will crunch.....it was designed for that. the trannies are the limiting factor with this amp. the Ambassador is the next step up in the TH line for more headroom.

[hemlock]

And I absolutely love the crunch from the amp. I would just like for it to show up a couple of notches later. I may have to bite the bullet and go with an A/B rig with a different amp for cleans. I really liked the small size and convenience of just schlepping one Pitbull 112 around, though. Thanks for the help, guys.

[aarondavis]

How do you set your controls? Especially Volume and Master... Also do you have it set to "Fat", remember this is a full frequency gain boost.

I gig with a Club Royale set clean, and get a surprising amount of clean head room for a fairly low wattage amp. But I run the preamp Volume about 10-11 o’clock. Also, I found I got the loudest clean tone by going into the high input too. I know I'm going against conventional wisdom, but it works for me!

When set properly, these Club series amps get get a good clean tone.

[riffmeister]

Originally posted by hemlock
And I absolutely love the crunch from the amp. I would just like for it to show up a couple of notches later. I may have to bite the bullet and go with an A/B rig with a different amp for cleans. I really liked the small size and convenience of just schlepping one Pitbull 112 around, though. Thanks for the help, guys.

You really might want to look into the 35W Ambassador. Bigger trannies = more clean headroom. Has a MV so the crunch can be dialed in for different levels, including higher volume levels than the SD.

[jimmyj]

I'm sure the tube swapping is the best you can do for more clean headroom but I wonder if some less vintage style speakers would also make a difference.
It probably isn't as significant in your 2x12 but I've been experimenting with my CR 1x12. I was surprised now much cleaner my amp was at the same setting when I hooked it up to the Mesa Black Shadow 90w in my Maverick.

[jimmyj]

Originally posted by ROKY
Yup, I did a tube AND speaker change with my TopHat Embassy
My Embassy is 35w(4 6V6s) but is in head form .

Eminence Tonkers got me more headroom and bass response, to
where I could get a noticeable amount of extra headroom.

The Tonkers still have the midrange to bring out the raucous goods
in overdrive but they definitely gave me some more headroom
and shifted the character(voice) of the amp in some cool directions

The nice thing about having the head format is being able to plug
into whatever speaker cab I want, although changing speakers
is no big deal .

Those GE 6L6s are famous for their breakup at higher volumes.

That's cool.
I love the way the G12h-30 in the Club Deluxe warm up my Tele and ASAT but I'm beginning to think I prefer the 90w Black Shadow with my PRS Singlecut.

[hemlock]

Originally posted by ROKY
Yup, I did a tube AND speaker change with my TopHat Embassy
My Embassy is 35w(4 6V6s) but is in head form .

Eminence Tonkers got me more headroom and bass response, to
where I could get a noticeable amount of extra headroom.

The Tonkers still have the midrange to bring out the raucous goods
in overdrive but they definitely gave me some more headroom
and shifted the character(voice) of the amp in some cool directions

The nice thing about having the head format is being able to plug
into whatever speaker cab I want, although changing speakers
is no big deal .

Those GE 6L6s are famous for their breakup at higher volumes.

The amp does indeed sound spectacular when cranked. I have some JJ6L6GCs ordered and I will try some 7581s as well a probably the Tonkers and Wizards. The amp is so chimey and swirly with the P90s in the Reverend that a little more midrange and/or a bit more bass could be a little better.

I talked to Eurotubes today and found out that the GE 6L6s are only 22 watts output so maybe the tube change alone will get me that extra few decibels of clean that I am looking for.

[ROKY]

Originally posted by hemlock
The amp does indeed sound spectacular when cranked. I have some JJ6L6GCs ordered and I will try some 7581s as well a probably the Tonkers and Wizards. The amp is so chimey and swirly with the P90s in the Reverend that a little more midrange and/or a bit more bass could be a little better.

I talked to Eurotubes today and found out that the GE 6L6s are only 22 watts output so maybe the tube change alone will get me that extra few decibels of clean that I am looking for.

Yeah the tubes alone may get you what you're looking for.
Every little component is a compromise; a gain or a loss depending
on how you look at it and your goal, tonally.

I went with JJ 6V6s in my Embassy along with their GZ34 because
I wanted to stiffen things up a little and add get a bit more
headroom.. it worked !

I always have the luxury of going the other direction, which is
great. I bought my Tonkers from a forum member.
Didn't like them right away as it did a fairly radical shift in how the
amp responded(this from V-30s, then Red Fangs with that amp)

In a [very]short time I saw(heard) a lot of their merits .
And, again, I can always plug into something else,speaker-wise,
depending on the requirements of the gig.

The TopHats are really flexible .

[hemlock]

So I tried the JJ 6L6s this evening and I did get a touch more headroom but I don't like the overdrive characteristics of the JJs nearly as much as the GEs. GEs are back in now. Next is the speaker experimentation and maybe some 7581s.

[riffmeister]

Originally posted by hemlock
So I tried the JJ 6L6s this evening and I did get a touch more headroom but I don't like the overdrive characteristics of the JJs nearly as much as the GEs. GEs are back in now. Next is the speaker experimentation and maybe some 7581s.

The V30 & G12H in your amp are efficient speakers, I don't think you'll do much better than that. And while the 7581's are generally a higher headroom 6L6, I don't think they will do that much because I believe it is the smaller trannies that are the limiting factor for the clean headroom in this amp.

You should try a 35W Ambassador sometime........bigger trannies will give you more headroom and bandwidth, and the amp has a similar (but not identical) "TopHat Sound". :)

[DestroyAllGuitars]

You need to leave the Super as is and add a new weapon to your
arsenal. If you want comparable or better quality, you should
try the Ambassador 50 or Bruno Cowtipper 45. You will not be
dissapointed. Anything else would be a step down IMO.

Good Luck.

[ROKY]

Originally posted by CliffC
You need to leave the Super as is and add a new weapon to your
arsenal. If you want comparable or better quality, you should
try the Ambassador 50 or Bruno Cowtipper 45. You will not be
dissapointed. Anything else would be a step down IMO.

Good Luck.

I have no practical experience with Super Deluxe, so chances
are the amp may in fact not have enough clean headroom for
what you need to do on this gig .

There is an Ambassador 50 on eBay .. that would definitely get
you where you need to be in terms of clean headroom .

I can get my Embassy loud and clean enough but it does have
the larger trannies of the Ambassador 35 as was mentioned.

The Super IS meant to me a more muscular version of the Club Deluxe
but in keeping with the basic concept which is to have a decent
amount of headroom and a smooth but somewhat early transition
into overdrive tones .

Hope it works out, but you may possibly need another amp for
your specific need .

[hemlock]

I really appreciate the info, guys. The Super sounds so good with the GEs in it, I think they'll stay. I'll probably try the 7581s and speaker change just because I like to tinker but, based on your input, I don't expect to see any improvement. Guess it's time to start saving for another amp!

[JeffD]

Originally posted by hemlock
I really appreciate the info, guys. The Super sounds so good with the GEs in it, I think they'll stay. I'll probably try the 7581s and speaker change just because I like to tinker but, based on your input, I don't expect to see any improvement. Guess it's time to start saving for another amp!

Guess it depends on what you need. The characteristics that you have been trying to overcome are exactly what I love about the Super. In fact, I replaced one speaker with a greenback to get earlier breakup. The greenback paired with an emi red fang is tonal heaven for me. I understand that's not what you're after, though.

[riffmeister]

Originally posted by JeffD
Guess it depends on what you need. The characteristics that you have been trying to overcome are exactly what I love about the Super. In fact, I replaced one speaker with a greenback to get earlier breakup. The greenback paired with an emi red fang is tonal heaven for me. I understand that's not what you're after, though.

Big ditto here.......the SD is my all time favorite amp for my blues-pop-rock band (guitar-keys-bass-drums). I use a greenback + V30 (both very well broken in) and it sounds fantastic.

I think hemlock loves his SD, too, but just wants the tone, feel, and breakup characteristics at a slightly higher volume level. Hey, I have an idea for him..........TWO Super Deluxes run in stereo!!! :dude

[hemlock]

Originally posted by riffmeister


I think hemlock loves his SD, too, but just wants the tone, feel, and breakup characteristics at a slightly higher volume level. Hey, I have an idea for him..........TWO Super Deluxes run in stereo!!! :dude

Hemlock does indeed love his SD! It's a keeper for sure. The edge of breakup tones are the bst I've ever heard with my sloppy playing. The cranked overdrive is just amazing. I like it better every time I play it. The solution might be to get the other guitarust in the band to turn down!:D But that would keep me from looking for another amp to complement the SD, wouldn't it?

[aarondavis]

hemlock please divulge you control settings, and exactly what kind of tone you're going for with a cleaner sound. Are you gigging without a PA? Is your band really loud? I know every ones situation is different, but I even get a pretty loud clean tone out of my Club Royale. Rarely do I wish I had more head room? It just depends on the settings.

[meterman]

Originally posted by aarondavis
hemlock please divulge you control settings, and exactly what kind of tone you're going for with a cleaner sound. Are you gigging without a PA? Is your band really loud? I know every ones situation is different, but I even get a pretty loud clean tone out of my Club Royale. Rarely do I wish I had more head room? It just depends on the settings.

Yeah I was thinking that too. I love my SD, the edge of dirt tones are the best and it really roars when cranked, but I also have no trouble getting enough clean headroom for funk or jazzy stuff, even with humbuckers and a loud drummer......of course it depends on one's definition of headroom, it ain't no Twin! But I find I get about as much clean headroom as my '71 Super Reverb which is 40w.....

FWIW I run mine with the following settings

Volume and MV 1:00-2:00
Cut 9:00
Bass 2:00
Mids 11:00-1:00
Treble 1:00
Boost in normal setting, hard rectifier setting

Mine has 2xG12H30s in it and I'm running some of the TAD small bottle 6L6s which sound fantastic BTW, highly recommended. I love this amp, it's my gigging amp (use a Club Deluxe 1x12 for jams and practices) and gives me everything I need. Though I really want to gig my Emplex sometime! :dude

[hemlock]

Hmmmm.
Volume 2:00
MV 2-3:00
Cut 11:00
Bass 2:00
Mid 12:00
Treble 10:00
Boost in Normal setting
Rectifier in Normal setting

My amp gets nowhere near the clean headroom of a Super Reverb. Maybe a trip to Jeff Bakos is in the works.