Gibson Pots vs. CTS (LP Historic content)

[peanutavalon]

I have a question. I have a 2005 R0 with Gibson stamped pots and orange drop caps(stock). Also have a 2008 R8 with stock bumblebee caps and cts pots(also stock). I find the R8 is a louder guitar electrically. The RO has more of a taper to the volume whereas the R8 gets loud quick like all linear pots do. Did some Historics come with audio taper pots? Is there a difference in orangedrop caps vs bumblebee that make a difference? I like both guitars equally but may want to swap pots in the R0 someday. What makes the R0 with the Gibson pots more quiet? thanks

[David Collins]

Maybe others can tell with more certainty, but I had always thought that until recently all the Gibsons except for custom shop models used 300k linear volume and 500k audio tone, and that this was not something changed when they switched from CGE back to CTS. With the R-series (or whatever they call the non-custom shop historics), it was my understanding that they switched back to 500k audio volumes fairly recently, within the last few years. Just recently however, I came across a 2003 R8 or 9 that had 500k linear all around, even on the tones. This one I was almost wondering if it was a mistake, as that simply makes no sense at all.

So I don't really know which has what pots, but maybe someone else here does, or I'm sure you can find plenty of detailed discussions on this over at the Les Paul Forum. Whatever they have now however, the total pot value wouldn't be a likely source of any volume differences. If you prefer a different taper then it can be worth replacing the pots, but if the capacitors are of the same value, changing them out would not have any audible effect.

[walterw]

historic pauls have had 500ks all around, linear volume and audio tone, for at least the last decade.

the very newest ones in the past year or so started coming with audio volumes, too. (finally!)

i think gibson finally got the message shortly before they came out with the 339, making a big deal about its "memphis tone circuit" (audio taper volumes and '50s wiring :rolleyes:)

that special 50th anniversary R9 came with audio taper volumes, and it seems like the historic pauls have had them ever since (along with the more durable and slippery nylon nut, another big improvement).

[peanutavalon]

historic pauls have had 500ks all around, linear volume and audio tone, for at least the last decade.

the very newest ones in the past year or so started coming with audio volumes, too. (finally!)

i think gibson finally got the message shortly before they came out with the 339, making a big deal about its "memphis tone circuit" (audio taper volumes and '50s wiring :rolleyes:)

that special 50th anniversary R9 came with audio taper volumes, and it seems like the historic pauls have had them ever since (along with the more durable and slippery nylon nut, another big improvement).

I guess then Gibson 500k pots sound not as bright as CTS 500k pots.

[David Collins]

If they are both 500k, they will sound exactly the same - doesn't matter if they are CTS or CGE pots, if they are 500k there's no difference at 10. Now there's a chance that they are not both 500k, as they usually come with around a 20% tolerance, so some can certainly be as low as 400k, though this still would not be the most likely cause of such a distinct change.

There's no logical reason to isolate this particular factor as the most likely cause of changes you may hear. This is way down the list. I'm not sure of the consistency of the pickups between the two instruments - this certainly deserves looking in to. Then of course there are individual pieces of wood, or variations in the setups. Lots of things factor in to the final tone. Pot value can certainly be one (measured, not rated), but not the type of pot or cap.

[peanutavalon]

If they are both 500k, they will sound exactly the same - doesn't matter if they are CTS or CGE pots, if they are 500k there's no difference at 10. Now there's a chance that they are not both 500k, as they usually come with around a 20% tolerance, so some can certainly be as low as 400k, though this still would not be the most likely cause of such a distinct change.

There's no logical reason to isolate this particular factor as the most likely cause of changes you may hear. This is way down the list. I'm not sure of the consistency of the pickups between the two instruments - this certainly deserves looking in to. Then of course there are individual pieces of wood, or variations in the setups. Lots of things factor in to the final tone. Pot value can certainly be one (measured, not rated), but not the type of pot or cap.

You're right. At 10 they are both the same or very close loudness. At 2 or 3 there is hardly any volume while the CTS pots in the other guitar have plenty of volume at 2 or 3. At 5 or 6 The Gibson pots have way less volume than the CTS, this is what led me to believe they were audio taper.

[David Collins]

Ah, that makes more sense. I thought you were saying that they had different tone or brightness when at 10. It sounds from your description as though the "Gibson pots" (which were made by CTS, the by CGE for quite some time, and now again by CTS) are audio, and the CTS linear.