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nphase
01-20-2011, 08:35 AM
So, I'm having a hard time finding a good power supply for my delay board. I'm pretty aware of boutique effects pedals, but for power I really am clueless. Everyone I know has suggested going the route of the PP ISO-5 but based on pedal specs, I have a hard time believing it'll sufficiently power all the pedals on my board.

The board as it stands now is:

Boss DD20 9v 200mA
EHX Holy Grail (the old one thats more square, not the nano) - 9v 500mA (??? 500mA? for a reverb pedal?)
EHX Freeze 9.6v 200mA
Empress Tremolo 9v ??mA
Line6 DL4 9V AC 2000mA (wtf, AC)
Boss DC2 (std boss 9v)
Line6 MM4 9V AC 2000mA (wtf, AC)
Moog MuRF 105
And soon, the Eventide Space.


You get the point. With the addition of the Eventide Space, i no longer have room on my surge protector for all the individual adapters. You guys have any thoughts on how to power all or most of this? I don't mind using the MuRF's brick, but it'd be cool if i could get much the rest powered..

Flight1311
01-20-2011, 08:43 AM
I think you might want to look into the Cioks DC-10

Specifications:
Outlet 1-4: 9V DC / 100mA each
Outlet 5-6: 9 or 12V DC / 200mA each*
Outlet 7-8: 9 and 12V DC / 400mA
Outlet 9-10: 9 and 12 or 15V DC / 400mA
* can be merged into a 400mA section

Flight1311
01-20-2011, 08:48 AM
Ah, I missed your AC issues. The T-Rex Fuel Tank Chameleon can power the Eventide stuff.

Holy Schnikes
01-20-2011, 08:58 AM
If your thinking Voodoo Labs, I would get a PP2+ and ISO5. The PP2+ can handle the L6 stuff no problem and the ISO5 supports Eventide.

Not sure any one supply can handle all that though, PP2+ will only give 250mA at output 5 and 6, both of which you'd need for the L6 stuff. All others will only be 100mA. The two together may get it done.

This way you'll probably have extra outlets for future additions and AC jack on back of PP2+. I use that jack to string together my two units.

nphase
01-20-2011, 09:07 AM
Cool, Thanks! I'll look into those. Hoping of course that my googling around for voltage info was accurate..

JeffOlson
01-20-2011, 09:16 AM
A OneSpot or Power-All could power all of your 9-volt DC pedals...

Holy Schnikes
01-20-2011, 09:31 AM
Forgot to mention, in your setup, I'd use PP2+ AC jack for Holy Grail adapter. I've heard that pedal can't be run off the isolated outs due to that high mA consumption. Doubt it's really using 500mA, but definitely over 250.

Moe45673
01-20-2011, 09:45 AM
I'd leave the default power supplies for the Line 6.

The Boss DC-2 probably uses the old Boss ACA adaptor, which is 12V unregulated. However, if daisy chained with a typically powered pedal, like the Boss DD-20 or EHX Freeze, you can use a PSA type power supply to run it.

I agree that a one-spot/godlyke could sufficiently remove a lot of your single adaptors, while leaving the more specialized ones alone and making room. They have about 2000 mA of power to provide and only cost about 40-50 bucks.

Leave the DD-20 on its own power supply. I actually run mine off a godlyke and it sounds great to me, but many have reported noise when it's sharing a power source.

jnepo1
01-20-2011, 11:26 AM
Ah, I missed your AC issues. The T-Rex Fuel Tank Chameleon can power the Eventide stuff.

Eventide is 9VAC I believe. The Chameleon is 12VAC. The Eventide can also be powered via 9VDC at 300mA.

jnepo1
01-20-2011, 11:30 AM
The Line6 DL4, although it is 9VAC has a voltage regulator. So it can be powered via a DC power source like the PP2+ or w/ similar specs. Eventhough it is AC powered via the supplied wallwart, the DL4 and it's internal regulator can convert the currency and be powered via a DC power. Just make sure you use the "RED" power cable supplied by most PSU manufacturers, it has a 2.5mm barrel connector and is reversed polarity.

Moe45673
01-20-2011, 12:21 PM
If you do decide to go DC power on the Line 6, as the poster above me mentioned, be careful you do not daisy chain it with negative tipped connectors! IE, Daisy-chaining the DL-4 and MM-4 are A-OK, daisy-chaining the Boss DD-20 and DL-4 is highly inadvisable.

jnepo1
01-20-2011, 02:25 PM
If you do decide to go DC power on the Line 6, as the poster above me mentioned, be careful you do not daisy chain it with negative tipped connectors! IE, Daisy-chaining the DL-4 and MM-4 are A-OK, daisy-chaining the Boss DD-20 and DL-4 is highly inadvisable.

You really can't daisy chain the DL4. It requires a "RED" power cable supplied by the PSU manufacturer such as VL. And on top of that, the "RED" power cable is a 2.5mm barrel connector, not the 2.1mm barrel connector found in most pedals. Also, the "RED" power cable is reverse polarity. So, daisy chaining the DL4 and the DD-20 couldn't be done.

CIOKS support
01-20-2011, 03:12 PM
So, I'm having a hard time finding a good power supply for my delay board. I'm pretty aware of boutique effects pedals, but for power I really am clueless. Everyone I know has suggested going the route of the PP ISO-5 but based on pedal specs, I have a hard time believing it'll sufficiently power all the pedals on my board.

The board as it stands now is:

Boss DD20 9v 200mA
EHX Holy Grail (the old one thats more square, not the nano) - 9v 500mA (??? 500mA? for a reverb pedal?)
EHX Freeze 9.6v 200mA
Empress Tremolo 9v ??mA
Line6 DL4 9V AC 2000mA (wtf, AC)
Boss DC2 (std boss 9v)
Line6 MM4 9V AC 2000mA (wtf, AC)
Moog MuRF 105
And soon, the Eventide Space.


You get the point. With the addition of the Eventide Space, i no longer have room on my surge protector for all the individual adapters. You guys have any thoughts on how to power all or most of this? I don't mind using the MuRF's brick, but it'd be cool if i could get much the rest powered..

Hi,

Let me clear up sum specifiations on your pedals and suggest how to hook it all up to our CIOKS DC10 power supply:
Boss DC2, 9V DC / 30mA - outlet 1, CIOKS Flex 1 (black)
EHX Freeze 9V DC / less than 100mA - outlet 2, CIOKS Flex 1 (black)
Empress Tremolo, 9-15V / 32mA - outlet 3, CIOKS Flex 1 (black)
Line6 DL4, 12V DC / 120-140mA, CIOKS Flex 4 (green) - outlet 5 @ 12V DC
Line6 MM4, 12V DC / 110-130mA, CIOKS Flex 4 (green) - outlet 6 @ 12V DC
Moog MuRF 105, 9V DC / 230mA, CIOKS Flex 2 (red) - outlet 7
Boss DD20, 9V DC / 155-175mA, CIOKS Flex 1 (black) - outlet 9
EHX Holy Grail, 9V DC / approx. 200mA, the original adapter is non regulated type and the pedal receives 11,5V - CIOKS Flex 5 (black) - outlet 10 @ 12V DC*

Eventide Space, 12V DC / 400mA max. - CIOKS Flex type 4 (green)

You have quite many pedals of which many have big needs regarding power (mA). You'd be able to power everything excerpt the Space of our CIOKS DC10. The Holy Grail will have to share GND with the DD20 and this could be problematic. The Grail could make a high freq. hiss into the DD20 through the ground lead, but not nescesarily. You need to try it. Adding the Space will be a problem with one PSU only. The Space could be powered by one of the 400mA sections if you rather would like to power one of the other pedals from it's own original adapter. The Eventides original PSU are a bit heavy and big I've heard.

Anyway, if you have other questions just e-mail me.

Best regards,
Poul Ciok

Moe45673
01-20-2011, 05:13 PM
You really can't daisy chain the DL4. It requires a "RED" power cable supplied by the PSU manufacturer such as VL. And on top of that, the "RED" power cable is a 2.5mm barrel connector, not the 2.1mm barrel connector found in most pedals. Also, the "RED" power cable is reverse polarity. So, daisy chaining the DL4 and the DD-20 couldn't be done.

You can daisy chain anything with anything, assuming you have a daisy chain and the appropriate adaptor. I can totally daisy chain a DD-20 with a DL-4 using my Godlyke. It`s inadvisable and may damage one or both of the pedals, but technically I am physically able to daisy chain them.

Having said that, daisy-chaining a DL-4 and an MM-4, both of which require a positive tipped cable (rather than the Boss standard negative tipped), is fine and can be done with no reasonable risk of damaging the pedals, just like having neg. tipped connectors on the same daisy chain is perfectly fine.

I think we`re pretty much saying the same thing

jnepo1
01-20-2011, 05:59 PM
Moe I guess you're correct in that. But would you do it? I would daisy chain 2 reversed polarity required effects together, but I would be skeptical about daisy chaining them together w/ center negative effects in the same chain. That's just inviting a lot of noise to your chain.
I'm not big on the daisy chain power supplies, they are not protected. Should you have a short or a surge, you could potentially fry your entire board. I do use a PSU w/ isolated outs as a layer of protection. And unfortunately, on my small board, I do have to daisy chain, because I am powering 11 pedals/switches. However, I am aware of the power requirements of each pedal. And whether pedals need a regulated or unregulated power source, or even if they need to have their own power outlet. Unfortunately, that's where some people run into noise issues.

nphase
01-20-2011, 07:56 PM
So, if I went with the CIOKs and left the Eventide Space and the EHX Holy Grail to use their own power supplies everything else should be fine?

CIOKS support
01-21-2011, 02:38 AM
You can daisy chain anything with anything, assuming you have a daisy chain and the appropriate adaptor. I can totally daisy chain a DD-20 with a DL-4 using my Godlyke. It`s inadvisable and may damage one or both of the pedals, but technically I am physically able to daisy chain them.

Having said that, daisy-chaining a DL-4 and an MM-4, both of which require a positive tipped cable (rather than the Boss standard negative tipped), is fine and can be done with no reasonable risk of damaging the pedals, just like having neg. tipped connectors on the same daisy chain is perfectly fine.

I think we`re pretty much saying the same thing

Daisychaining pedals will work in most cases. Also if the polarity of the pedals power jack is different it's doable with a custom made daisy chain cable. The problem arrizes when the ground potential is not the same as power ground. That is the case with positive GND pedals like Fulltone 69' pedal, Soulbender or Octafuzz. You also have a problem when the ground potential of your guitar signal is in-between the power GND and positive. That is the case with Tonebone pedals and the 4-button modelers. The Tonebones must be powered from an isolated source and the modelers will have a decresed dynamic range when daisychained with other 'normal' 12V pedals. You might not hear the difference.

When this is said if you want to do things right and want to have optimum quality of your guitar sound you just need to do everything right. Buy high quality and good sounding pedals, HQ cables, HQ patch cables and power your pedals of a HQ power supply optimally each from an isolated section. Then you'll have least possibility of loss of dynamics, highs, unwanted hiss or hum.

Hum from mains or higher freq. noise can be introduced to your guitar signal both through air or cables. When daisy-chaining you have a risk of getting hum due to ground loops or ex. having a digital pedal making noise into another poor filtered analogue pedal through the daisy chain.

If you can afford it, go isolated! If not, you should make A/B tests what difference it makes to have two pedals daisy chained or isolated. If you hear no difference you can have them powered in parallel via the daisy chain.

Regards,
Poul Ciok

CIOKS support
01-21-2011, 02:40 AM
So, if I went with the CIOKs and left the Eventide Space and the EHX Holy Grail to use their own power supplies everything else should be fine?

I would try to have the Grail powered of the DC10 too and listen if there is any difference when powered of its own adapter. If you hear no difference you have saved extra space and weight.

Poul Ciok

Godspeed64
01-21-2011, 03:33 AM
Trust CIOKS, they're top class. I use a Schizophrenic for my board, which is rather small and it works absolutely fine.

Moe45673
01-21-2011, 10:23 AM
Holy crap, Cioks. I just looked at your DC10.

I have about 11 pedals on my board, 1 of them a Tonebone Hot British (powered on its own). The rest are powered off a godlyke. I was hesitant to buy a PP2+ because I don't get unwanted issues by running in series (noise, tone affected, etc) to a degree where spending ~4-5X the amount on a PP2+ would make it worth it.

However. However. The DC10 can power all my stompboxes (though I may need to daisy chain one or two of them). And for a mere 200 bucks. If only these were sold in Canada. I'll speak to your US dealer, maybe he can sell to me. The product is designed almost like I custom ordered that, tailor made to my specifications.

I am duly impressed.

CIOKS support
01-21-2011, 10:32 AM
Thanks for your kind words. Please contact Ryan at www.guitareffectspedals.com (http://www.guitareffectspedals.com). I know he's sold quite a few of our power supplies to Canadian musicians. I'm sorry to inform you that at this point he's out of stock and so are we. We've sold much more of the DC10s than I've expected and now we're waiting to get the next batch of enclosures to be able to assemble more of them. I believe we'll be shipping again in 2-3 weeks from now.
Please mail me your list of pedals and I'll send you a recommendation on how to set it all up.

All the best,
Poul Ciok

Moe45673
01-21-2011, 11:02 AM
Hey Poul,

You're awesome! Email sent :)

Moe

nphase
01-23-2011, 10:56 AM
Poul,
Thanks! Email sent here too.

Reckedtrek
01-23-2011, 11:17 AM
I'd like to just chime in with another vote for the DC-10 by Cioks. They were available from Eventide for a while and I bought one from them. Top notch all the way. I had a few questions dating back to when I first heard about the DC10, and I can say that Poul has always replied with quick, detailed and accurate replies, both before AND after the sale.

I was a huge VL user/supporter in the past and still like my pedalpower supplies for smaller old school boards. However, if you have a board that needs mega juice, it's Cioks all the way! :aok

Flight1311
01-23-2011, 06:32 PM
Eventide is 9VAC I believe. The Chameleon is 12VAC. The Eventide can also be powered via 9VDC at 300mA.

Burgs did a video of him powering his Eventide units with the Chameleon - that's why I brought it up.

jnepo1
01-23-2011, 08:31 PM
Burgs did a video of him powering his Eventide units with the Chameleon - that's why I brought it up.

That's cool, you just have to make sure how he actually power them thru the Chameleon. The Chameleon's outs are rated at 300mA, so you can power the Eventides thru the Chameleon's 9VDC outs. The 12VAC would fry the unit.

CIOKS support
01-24-2011, 02:07 AM
That's cool, you just have to make sure how he actually power them thru the Chameleon. The Chameleon's outs are rated at 300mA, so you can power the Eventides thru the Chameleon's 9VDC outs. The 12VAC would fry the unit.

The Factor pedals can be powered of 9 or 12V DC. You can't use the AC voltage! When powered of 9V DC they will draw approx. 360mA. When powered of 12V DC they draw around 300mA. You can make your own conclusions yourself. But just to let you know all T-rex Fuel Tank power supplies are overspecified.

I have all T-Rex products in my lab, where we’ve done extensive measurements and one main thing that is characterizing these products is the fact that they perform approx. 30-40% below the stated specifications. T-Rex has great marketing and spend quite big sums on that. But the power supplies are not ok. It irritates me a lot when people compare some values in our specs. with their.

Anyway, I can explain: The Chameleon is based on an 18VA transformer with UL-core. The stated output parameters are:
3 x 9 or 12V DC @ 300mA
1 x 9 or 18V DC @ 300mA
1 x 9 or 12V DC or 12V AC @ 300mA

If you take the higher voltages and DC only you end up with 19,8W! Whauuu! ...one could think. But this is completely impossible. This means the box has an efficiency higher than 100%.

A rule of thumb, we use, says that the W figure must be multiplied by at least 1.5 to get the VA rating of the needed transformer (when dealing with traditional linear power supplies). To be ok with 1.5 only you have to optimize the transformer quite well and use some more expensive voltage regulators of the low dropout type. In case of the Chameleon, if you try to load it with say 60% of the specified max. load, you’ll already be getting ripple on the outlets.


I know products from competitors and have respect for ex. Voodoo Lab in US and Burkey in Netherlands, which make some nice power supplies. They have specifications which are true to the performance of their products.