Pitch Correction Plugins

[Julia343]

I know this has been beaten to death, but I want to beat it to death some more.

I know it's a time saving device. It can cut the number of takes down before making a comp track. It's easier than cutting and splicing tape. You get an emotionally great take, but the singer misses or drifts off pitch a few times and you can fix it and save that take. There's a lot of things you can't do with it. Like if the singer doesn't place the sound correctly. That can't be fixed, although there are work arounds with EQ, but a good listener will still pick it up.

There are a ton of these products out there. Everyone uses them. They've used them for a couple decades now. But why? Why don't these companies ever show how to use these things subtly? You know like I described above? Why do they ALWAYS go straight to T-Pain and that one song by Cher? Why to they always show the most over-the-top extreme? Is this their target market? Marching orders from the top?

You know the demo that shows... okay here's how to use it on a decent vocal. Notice how transparent it is. And finally for those of you who want to know... yes, we did stick a preset in for the T-Pain and Cher effect just in case you want to use it.

But no... they go straight to the T-Pain effect and show how their formant algorithm works when moving a note up a major third or something. Who can tell? The effect sounds like sh** anyway. And the effect may cover it up. You bought it and it sucks? Whoops!

I just want to know which ones do the subtle the easiest and best without leaving artifacts. Because sometimes you get a good singer who misses it on an emotional take and you want to save that, but people don't tolerate a mistake anymore so you've got to fix that mistake. The emotion cannot be duplicated. It's transient.

[uberschall]

I just want to know which ones do the subtle the easiest and best without leaving artifacts...The emotion cannot be duplicated. It's transient.

+1 on both.

I need to pick up a new pitch plugin soon, and I'd like to hear up-to-date opinions on the best ones for preserving signal quality and avoiding artifacts. I used to use Auto-Tune and V-Vocal in Sonar but my results sounded too "processed" even when no audible artifacts were present. Maybe it's unavoidable, to an extent. I'm in Logic now and have been thinking about Melodyne, but only by reputation- I've never had a chance to use it.

[Julia343]

I'm using Melodyne Editor right now. It's a bit quirky for vocals. The melodic algorithm Melodyne Plugin (no longer available -- replaced by the Editor) was actually better for vocals. Since they added direct note access and polyphonic modes it changed things. If you want to use the macro and move the sliders, the sliders hang, but you've got to be patient as hell because they eventually move. And yes, I grabbed the update to 10.2. I've noticed you've really got to be careful with it now otherwise you can get audible artifacts. And some of the things they say in the manual are the would-be artifacts aren't. I just went through a very tedious editing session and had to do a re-do of part because I thought something was an artifact that wasn't. Next pass through it identified it as the proper note. I think there are better out there for the money.

I've got a project I'm working on. I'm going to download the demo for Izotope's Nectar -- 10 day unrestricted trial -- after that it introduces silence every 15 seconds or so. It's supposed to be very processor friendly and very fast. I know there's a lot of hype about this one now, but it just came out. I will be kicking myself if it's as good as I'm hearing because they had a Xmas special on it and I didn't take advantage because well, I hadn't used the Melodyne update yet.

The newer Antares introduces a sample delay which with Pro Tools 8 is a very bad thing since it's got no automatic delay compensation. So that one is out.

And since I'm getting more in depth, and some plugs I'm starting to use have a sample delay I'm looking at different DAWs like the Studio One Pro. Reaper has what they call Plugin Delay Compensation, but I don't know if that's the same thing.

I'm running into the latency thing now with some VIs -- they sound like they're dead on the money time wise but are getting written to midi a little late, unless I'm just a little late coming in. Better late than early though, unless you want to be early. I've got to test this a bit more.

[Bassomatic]

Life before automatic delay compensation was brutal. I never want to go back there!

I'm using an older version of melodyne on the rare occasion when I need to use vocal tuning, but I really don't dig the whole concept. The singer's equivalent of grid editing drums, which has been known to rob many a track of vibe and subtle swing (but is sadly necessary when the drummer's time is weak, which is common at the local band level).

[For the record, I run Nuendo. When I bought in, it was their "pro" offering, but Cubase quickly received everything that I regularly use, so I would go that route if I were choosing a program today. I suppose I'd check out Reaper, too, as I've read so much about it here.]

[Bassomatic]

BTW, the OP mentioned "cutting and splicing tape", which has zero to do with pitch correction (unless we're talking about varispeed in combination with splicing, which I've never heard of).

And when was the last time any of us needed to splice tape? Last time I was part of editing a 2" master was in 1995, and it was to fix a drum timing thing.

[smallbutmighty]

I haven't heard one yet that can completely fool my ears.

I can see how in a production studio environment it could be a huge money saver, but I'm committed to not using it on my own recordings any more...for all the reasons Bassomatic mentioned.

I must admit I am intrigued by Nectar....

[Julia343]

BTW, the OP mentioned "cutting and splicing tape", which has zero to do with pitch correction (unless we're talking about varispeed in combination with splicing, which I've never heard of).

And when was the last time any of us needed to splice tape? Last time I was part of editing a 2" master was in 1995, and it was to fix a drum timing thing.

I mentioned that as the way they used to do comp tracks. Not as pitch correction.

I just tried Nectar. It's great. Except: do not use the "Breath" or "Gate" function unless you have ADC. In other words it works fine in PT 8 unless you use them. Just hitting "Breath" which looks ahead for breaths to suppress by however much you want, adds about 1 second of delay to the track.

It's 8 plugins in one, and even has a built-in compressor, delay and reverb, and each has several options. And from what I heard I think it sounds a lot better than Melodyne Editor.

[uberschall]

I checked out Nectar- looks very cool. I'm recording a vocal on Monday, and then will download the demo and try it out. Thanks for the heads-up, I wasn't aware of Nectar.

[scredly]

Just noticed someone already mentioned Nectar. I have Nectar but haven't had time to test drive it yet. Have been using Antares - fit my needs.

[Bassomatic]

I mentioned that as the way they used to do comp tracks. Not as pitch correction.

I was there, and I sure don't remember that. :dunno I can't visualize how that would work.

We used to comp takes by routing several to an open track and performing mutes/unmutes and/or faderv rides in real time (or progressively punching in to open track), effectively bouncing the good bits to the new track.

Now, we would splice the master to combine sections from different*takes*, as one can hear all over beloved classics by Zeppelin, Yes, etc.

[Julia343]

Whatever. I'll admit I know virtually nothing about analog tape so I'll yield here. Analog tape to me was always a mystery... like how did Pollini play Beethoven's Op 111 all the way through without missing a single note, when live they all made mistakes. But this is a subject of a whole different thread. I didn't get "into" rock of other band recordings until the 1980s. I was strictly classical. Piano used to use one mic. Now I'm aging myself.

I was just thinking of the number of takes it could take to get the singer to match the emotion and sing the part good enough for the finished product. You may get the notes right but the feel wrong. Better to have the feel right and the notes a bit off if you're going to have something wrong. This is where the software comes in handy.

Software can correct notes, but never can correct feel or technique.

[loudboy]

Whatever. I'll admit I know virtually nothing about analog tape so I'll yield here. Analog tape to me was always a mystery... like how did Pollini play Beethoven's Op 111 all the way through without missing a single note, when live they all made mistakes.

Classical recordings have tons of edits, between different takes.

[Bassomatic]

Whatever. I'll admit I know virtually nothing about analog tape so I'll yield here.

Not wanting a piddling match - just trying to clarify a misconception -or- learn something new I had never heard of or witnessed.

Better to have the feel right and the notes a bit off if you're going to have something wrong. This is where the software comes in handy.

I agree with the first part entirely. The "handiness" is a slippery slope, when we find perfectly good, even great singers subjected to pitch correction because "everybody else is doing it" (like the gated snare verb of the '80s) and a horrid aesthetic critical mass is reached.

Sad to hear a great vocal expressionist like Joey Strummer tuned posthumously, to sound like, well, not Joey Strummer. Pitch variation is a part of human singing, and was happily tolerated since the days of the Victrola.

While it can be used creatively as obvious signal processing, it's often used today as a solution in search of a problem. I predict we will one day reflect on these over-tuned productions with the same embarassment with which most now view the overproduced '80s pop, in which folks were going hogwild with the array of new effects made possible by digital signal processing.

[Julia343]

TFbfLu1K2xI

No pitch correction -- recorded in 1964. I wish I had this talent level. I don't think all the software in the world can do this.

[Bryan T]

I remember this being a pretty good tutorial:

Bw-zKOa1hyw

[uberschall]

I tried Nectar, and was so frustrated at not being able to control the transport from within the plugin, by double-clicking in the time ruler or something. I was continually having to mouse back and forth from the plugin window to the host window to get anything done. Am I missing something- do you Nectar guys have this issue?

[Julia343]

That's not what I noticed in the demo. For certain plugs I've always had to click back on the host for transport. I just got used to it. It's that IMO, for about the same money, Melodyne does less, and what it does it does better. The latest update of Melodyne, and after watching a few videos on how to use this product better, I now like it. The latest update fixed a bunch of glitches. Hence, I uninstalled the demo before the period expired.

I think Nectar tries to do to much for the price -- they try to do what Waves Vocal Bundle does in a single plugin.