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View Full Version : Anyone compare a Celestion Gold with a Scumnico?


lv
01-26-2011, 04:46 PM
Looking for something to use in a Hayseed 30 watt 1x12. I like Vox tones with blues. Anyone compare these two speakers?

Thanks

Truxton Spangler
01-26-2011, 05:28 PM
Indeed extensively :)

Ive got 2x12s with Celestion Gold 8ohms and with Scumnico 30w 8ohms
celestion golds sound sweeter with more chime once broken in
the chime is quite midrange focused

Scumnicos have tighter bass, midscoop-sounding
it has chime but not as much as the gold and the chime is in the high upper mids which is pretty vox-typical to me
its more like a blue than a gold really the pro is tighter bass but the con is less chime with the scumnico and looser/sweeter
bass with the blue but with more chime

which one goes well with your amp depends ALOT on your amp and if you use humbuggies or singlecoils.

With some amps i really prefer the golds, with some i prefer blues or scumnicos
currently my two favorite alnico speakers are Fane AXA12 and WGS Black Hawk 100W though.. I have a cab with the Fane AXA12 that slays, it's a bit more ceramic sounding and less bright than the others.

The WGS Black Hawk is on a shared first place... but i don't own cabs with those speakers myself. I loaned a cab with them and have wanted to buy them ever since :)
They're like celestion golds on steroids.

With my JTM45 i ALWAYS come back to the Celestion Gold no matter what.
With my Vox i like the AXA12... Black Hawk, Blue or Scumnico

The gold,, blue and scumnico works best in open cabs IMHO

The AXA12 and Black Hawk seem to work quite well in closed backs.. especially the AXA12.. but they can also benefit form open back cabs.. something ive found that all alnico speakers i've used have in common

Either way.. hope it helps and let me know if you have any questions :)

Best regards -T

Billion81
01-26-2011, 06:44 PM
I am really digging the AXAs-

The Alnicos that are in the JTM45 40th anniversery are brilliant and am wondering if the fact that the open back slant cab doesn't have something to do with it.

I have a front ported/load Hermida cab that I was considering some Scummies for. Still, not sure if the ported cab is the way to go.

Leonc
01-26-2011, 06:54 PM
....which one goes well with your amp depends ALOT on your amp and if you use humbuggies or singlecoils.

With some amps i really prefer the golds, with some i prefer blues or scumnicos...
Agree. That was my experience too; they're both good speakers with slightly different qualities. In the amp I was trying them in, I preferred the Scumnico; it was a very bright amp.

zoooombiex
01-27-2011, 01:12 AM
I've posted a few comparisons of these before. Sort of similar, but different enough that you'll almost certainly have a preference for a particular application.

IMO, the Gold is brighter, punchier, more upper mids. The Scumnico has a softer high end, and I actually thought it had a wider bass than the Gold; a slightly more neutral speaker (in a good way) than the Gold which imparts a lot of its own character.

I'd say Gold for chime and Scumnico for balance.

ianb
01-27-2011, 01:47 AM
I've posted a few comparisons of these before. Sort of similar, but different enough that you'll almost certainly have a preference for a particular application.

IMO, the Gold is brighter, punchier, more upper mids. The Scumnico has a softer high end, and I actually thought it had a wider bass than the Gold; a slightly more neutral speaker (in a good way) than the Gold which imparts a lot of its own character.

I'd say Gold for chime and Scumnico for balance.

Good desciption, exactly my findings. I have had both, and now prefer the Scumnico, I also feel it is more balanced, with a little more warmth. The Gold is a great speaker, but after a while, I got a little tired of it's upper mid bark. But if that's what you're after, cool.

MRscratch
01-27-2011, 01:48 AM
i would love to try a scumnico. jackaroos clips on scumbacks website is one of my favorite tones ever, ( the super bass ones)
in canada, its a little harder to try out these boutique speakers because we do not have access to all of them without dealing with the border.
i am a huge fan of the golds, and i imagine that the scumnicos are more of a taylor version of that sound. more of a "old broken in version".
i have the gold in two cabs now, and a dr z maz sr 1/12.
the gold to me has a rich thick mid that i have not heard in any other speaker.
Against all opinions, i loaded this speaker into a dr z Z best cab. this is a thiel ported 2/12 cab. the speaker brought out all the nuances i was missing from my amps at moderate volumes. but with the enhanced bottom of a thiel cab.
i found the speaker to be more detailed and more responsive than a g12m, but still had that vintage sound.
i have a Badcat hotcat 100. a old 03 non channel switcher. I never got along with it and tried so many speakers. i put two golds in the z best for my new trainwreck, but i discovered that the badcat was just loving these. Its like i have a brand new amp. I cant say what is better, yadda yadda... but the gold is a great speaker from a proven innovator that just came up with a winner.
I would love love to try a scumnico as im sure its a kick ass speaker.
this forum has to stop asking what is the " best", and start asking "what works for me"?.
steffen

ianb
01-27-2011, 02:08 AM
This forum has to stop asking what is the " best", and start asking "what works for me"?.
steffen

Well said! But you know, here on TGP. what one has now is "the best" and what one just sold "terrible"........:roll

Truxton Spangler
01-27-2011, 04:11 AM
i would love to try a scumnico. jackaroos clips on scumbacks website is one of my favorite tones ever, ( the super bass ones)
in canada, its a little harder to try out these boutique speakers because we do not have access to all of them without dealing with the border.
i am a huge fan of the golds, and i imagine that the scumnicos are more of a taylor version of that sound. more of a "old broken in version".

The scumnicos do not sound much like the golds.. scumnicos are alittle midscooped with less mids than the celestion gold which is alittle mid hyped
If you like and want a better version of the celestion gold i would suggest wgs black hawk 100w which is like a gold on steroids and also alittle more balanced

I also love the AXA12 but its very different from a gold imho
its more like an alnco with a ceramic flavor to it.. very nice but might not either be what you are after if you want something similar to the golds

My personal current favorite is the axa12 fwiw..i havent seen anything that beats fanes quality :)

I also hear the Austin Speaker Works stuff is great.. id love to get one of their speakers when my economy permits
i have cabs with most other alnico speakers already.. also want to try out the jensen alnicos which i dont hear much about but are supposedly good and warm

Best regards -T

dbeeman
01-27-2011, 08:03 AM
I have both. Gold is brighter. more complex sounding. Scum is rolled off on the the top a bit. Depends on the application which is preferred.

redshark1105
01-27-2011, 08:16 AM
Although I haven't do an A/B test with the scumnico and the gold it seems to me the scumnico might be more in weber alnico silver bell territory just because of the descriptions given here. It would be interesting to do an A/B test between a gold and a weber alnico blue dog which intends to be more chimey and sparkley than the silver bell which tends to be more bass and less upper midrange.

smolder
01-27-2011, 09:02 AM
this forum has to stop asking what is the " best", and start asking "what works for me"?.
steffen

+1

I've gotten to the point where I just have to ignore the "what's best" topics.

lv
01-27-2011, 09:24 AM
Thanks so much guys, very good info. Also very much in line with what a couple of builders who use both told me. I'll be using a strat exclusively and am leaning towards the Gold.




+1

I've gotten to the point where I just have to ignore the "what's best" topics.

I asked for a comparison based on a specific application and my specific preferences. If anything, this is exactly the type of thread that is extremely useful on TGP.

Have you compared the speakers? Do you have any info to share other than what kind of posts you dislike?

blackba
01-27-2011, 10:22 AM
The scumnicos do not sound much like the golds.. scumnicos are alittle midscooped with less mids than the celestion gold which is alittle mid hyped
If you like and want a better version of the celestion gold i would suggest wgs black hawk 100w which is like a gold on steroids and also alittle more balanced

I also love the AXA12 but its very different from a gold imho
its more like an alnco with a ceramic flavor to it.. very nice but might not either be what you are after if you want something similar to the golds

My personal current favorite is the axa12 fwiw..i havent seen anything that beats fanes quality :)

I also hear the Austin Speaker Works stuff is great.. id love to get one of their speakers when my economy permits
i have cabs with most other alnico speakers already.. also want to try out the jensen alnicos which i dont hear much about but are supposedly good and warm

Best regards -T

Which Vox are you using that you prefer the Scumico?

I had an Alnico Gold in my Vox AC30CC1 and loved it, great chime. I have since sold that amp and have a '66 Vox AC50. I was using 2 anni G12H30's and got good chime, but on the Brilliant channel (bright cab clipped) the highs were harsh, normal was pretty good. I now have a H75 and Scumico both 65Watt in my cab and the Brilliant channel is nice, no more harsh highs, but the normal channel is now too dark (can't turn up the treble any more on the amp). I am also missing the chime I got from the G12H30's. Wondering if I should go with an Alnico Gold and G12H30 mix and use the H75/Scumico combo for another amp. I still have the 2 G12H30's in another opened back cab. I do need to check the mounting of my Scumbacks before I do anything, I want to make sure I didn't torque them too hard.

I like the sweetness in general of Alnico magnet speakers, but I like the punch of ceramic magnet speakers, hence combining them to try to get the best of both worlds...

zoooombiex
01-27-2011, 10:31 AM
Thanks so much guys, very good info. Also very much in line with what a couple of builders who use both told me. I'll be using a strat exclusively and am leaning towards the Gold.

I just re-read your original post, and if you really like Blues, the Gold will probably be closer than the Scumnico.

You might also consider a 30 watt Weber blue. I haven't tried it, but just spec-wise if you're into Blues it might be worth considering.

Leonc
01-27-2011, 10:34 AM
You might also consider a 30 watt Weber blue. I haven't tried it, but just spec-wise if you're into Blues it might be worth considering.

FWIW, I have tried them...nice sounding speakers, but they don't compare that favorably to Celestion Blue Alnicos, IMO. Don't have the chime.

LZ_69
01-27-2011, 11:10 AM
FWIW, I have tried them...nice sounding speakers, but they don't compare that favorably to Celestion Blue Alnicos, IMO. Don't have the chime.

That's understandable since the 30 watt Weber is designed to sound closer to a 60's blue while the 15 watt Weber is supposed to be closer to the modern blue.

The reason for the difference is that Celestion basically gave the reissue blue's a bit of a top end boost when they were working on them back in the early 90's.

traynor_garnet
01-27-2011, 11:14 AM
Great thread full of real world experience AND balanced comments. A TGP first! LOL

I have yet to hear a speaker "come alive" like the Celestion Blue. With a bit of volume it gets that 3-D swirl thing that I haven't heard in another speaker (and I have owned both the Weber Alnico and Ceramic Blues). That said, I have never heard the Gold so I am intrigued.

Right now, I am using an Eminence Red Fang. It doesn't have the swirl of the Blue and the mids are less scoped, but it sounds great. My biggest problem with it is that, like many Eminence speakers, it is ridiculously efficient and LOUD. I actually prefer less efficient speakers that allow me to crank up the amp a bit more; this is why I started reading this thread.

Has anyone compared the Red Fang to the Gold or Scumnico?

TG

JZWest
01-27-2011, 11:35 AM
great thread! also wondering how a g12-65 type factors in for higher power applications.

zoooombiex
01-27-2011, 11:51 AM
great thread! also wondering how a g12-65 type factors in for higher power applications.

Well, the 12-65 is in a bit of a different family than the Blue/Gold/Scumnico/Weber variety.

The heritage 12-65s are nice speakers though. Not too efficient. Slightly rounded high end that helps tame a bright or fizzy amp. Bottom end is relatively punchy. Lots of mids and low mids. It is to "fat" as a Blue is "chime"

Truxton Spangler
01-27-2011, 04:50 PM
Which Vox are you using that you prefer the Scumico?

A vox ac15h1tv (the handwired heritage series, the beige one.. not the new one) with the ef86 channel
this amp had one of those "fake" vox blues that didn't have the same cone as the celestion blue but some chinese POS
that didnt sound as good as a real celestion blue with the h1777 mueller cone.

I luv celestion golds in voxes too.. makes it more even across top boost and normal channels as you say!

The golds are quite bright when you get them, but they REALLY mellow down (to the same level of scumnicos almost) after extensive break-in.. but it takes a while for sure! :)
golds are all about complex chimey mids.. i love it goes really well with a jtm45 too! :D

Best regards -T

MRscratch
01-27-2011, 06:14 PM
what are the AXA... speakers some people are mentioning?

orogeny
01-27-2011, 06:27 PM
heeeees baaaaa-aaaaaaaaack
:Devil
good to see you lou:drink

amc
01-27-2011, 10:30 PM
what are the AXA... speakers some people are mentioning?

fane axa 12" alnico speakers

smolder
01-27-2011, 11:05 PM
I asked for a comparison based on a specific application and my specific preferences. If anything, this is exactly the type of thread that is extremely useful on TGP.


Huh. I contributed to a positive comment on the nature of your post... And you get pissy. Really?

MT Buckaroo
01-28-2011, 01:05 AM
Well I have a 30 Watt Scumnico inbound, and then will be able to give a comparison. I have a Blue (Vox, Made in China), a Gold, a Red Fang, and an ASW Elegante.

The Blue I just sold as it was always a bit on the bright side for my taste, and the 15 watt rating was too limiting. Never could love it paired with a G12H30, which is supposed to be a great combination. YMMV.

Agree that the Red Fang is ridiculously efficient and that may be part of why it seems more aggressive than a Gold. But I'm trying the Red Fang out in an amp that may benefit from that characteristic, so we'll see. Just popped it in 5 minutes ago.

The Gold is very nice, no real complaints, and was my fave until...

the Elegante came along. It kills.

More details later when the Scumnico arrives.

Seegs
01-28-2011, 02:01 AM
Indeed extensively :)

Ive got 2x12s with Celestion Gold 8ohms and with Scumnico 30w 8ohms
celestion golds sound sweeter with more chime once broken in
the chime is quite midrange focused

Scumnicos have tighter bass, midscoop-sounding
it has chime but not as much as the gold and the chime is in the high upper mids which is pretty vox-typical to me
its more like a blue than a gold really the pro is tighter bass but the con is less chime with the scumnico and looser/sweeter
bass with the blue but with more chime

which one goes well with your amp depends ALOT on your amp and if you use humbuggies or singlecoils.

With some amps i really prefer the golds, with some i prefer blues or scumnicos
currently my two favorite alnico speakers are Fane AXA12 and WGS Black Hawk 100W though.. I have a cab with the Fane AXA12 that slays, it's a bit more ceramic sounding and less bright than the others.

The WGS Black Hawk is on a shared first place... but i don't own cabs with those speakers myself. I loaned a cab with them and have wanted to buy them ever since :)
They're like celestion golds on steroids.

With my JTM45 i ALWAYS come back to the Celestion Gold no matter what.
With my Vox i like the AXA12... Black Hawk, Blue or Scumnico

The gold,, blue and scumnico works best in open cabs IMHO

The AXA12 and Black Hawk seem to work quite well in closed backs.. especially the AXA12.. but they can also benefit form open back cabs.. something ive found that all alnico speakers i've used have in common

Either way.. hope it helps and let me know if you have any questions :)

Best regards -T

me too...the Gold replaced the Fanes and was a huge improvement in all areas...

Chow,
Seegs

Truxton Spangler
01-28-2011, 03:14 AM
me too...the Gold replaced the Fanes and was a huge improvement in all areas...

Chow,
Seegs

The JTM45 is a finnicky amp for sure

Most of what works with my other amps does not work well with it
most pedals seem to restrain it and most speakers that should sound good with it doesn't sound all that great

But when you get the right combination of factors going.. it's the sweetest thing you could hope for and that i love. The AXA12 is probably my all time fav speaker, but with my JTM45 specifically i keep going back to the Celestion Gold cab.. great speaker.. very sweet once broken in :)

Best regards -T

wec
02-07-2011, 03:34 PM
Well I have a 30 Watt Scumnico inbound, and then will be able to give a comparison. I have a Blue (Vox, Made in China), a Gold, a Red Fang, and an ASW Elegante.

The Blue I just sold as it was always a bit on the bright side for my taste, and the 15 watt rating was too limiting. Never could love it paired with a G12H30, which is supposed to be a great combination. YMMV.

Agree that the Red Fang is ridiculously efficient and that may be part of why it seems more aggressive than a Gold. But I'm trying the Red Fang out in an amp that may benefit from that characteristic, so we'll see. Just popped it in 5 minutes ago.

The Gold is very nice, no real complaints, and was my fave until...

the Elegante came along. It kills.

More details later when the Scumnico arrives.

I have been using Scumnico's for years and always loved them. I just got a combo with an Elegante and that particular set-up just kills. I still want to compare the Elegante to the Scumnico with the same amp/cabinet but haven't had time. Would love to hear some comparisons.

mattymel
02-10-2011, 08:22 PM
i just put a Scumnico in my Marshall 1974X and i think it is a perfect match. in fact, i have to say i may be forever a Scumback convert.

recently, i tried a handwired Vox cab with two Blues in it and at the time i thought that was it. then somebody on the 18 watt forum mentioned the Scumnicos as rounder than the Blues.

i think that is pretty much it. more me, the 1974X is a very mid-centric amp, not totally unlike a good AC15. the Scumnico took a ballsy sounding amp and made it sing. the balls are still there, but now it has TONE!

the Blues have bark. but after hearing the Scumback, the Blue now sounds more like a poodle. whereas the Scumnico is a Black Lab.

strange analogy, but it will have to do. plus the Scumbacks are made in the US, so im sold.

Bottom line...if you like alnico speakers, these Scumnicos have the balls of a good ceramic with the openness and body of a alnico. im getting another one to finish this amp.

Seegs
03-04-2012, 09:10 AM
Diggin this thread up and want to ask has anyone run a gold and a scumnico together?

Gold is 100db
Scum is 98db

So even though the Scum is a bit softer it shouldn't be completely overpowered by the Gold

Anybody using any other speakers to mix with the Gold well such as an H55 or H75 ceramic Scumback.

I am going to be running two seperate open backed 1X 12" cabs and really love what the Gold does for my JTM45 but sometimes would like a different flavor...

Chow,
Seegs

Seegs
03-05-2012, 01:25 AM
Thought I'd bump this one more time...

Chow,
Seegs

Earplayer
03-05-2012, 02:00 AM
a 4x12 with celestion alnico blues is one of the best sounding cabs you can get. with a jtm45 it is just about perfect if you dig that kinda tone. donīt like the gold or scumnico that much...

Guinness Lad
03-05-2012, 04:17 AM
With my Aiken Sabre a combo of a Gold and Anniversary sound really nice nice. If I was to be blunt however both these speakers before this particular application pissed me off more than anything and were not a big fave at all.

I had a Gold in my Aiken Tomcat and while it added some volume and sounded nice I think the alnico Weber Blue Dog has more range and you can dial in just as much grunt if need be. The thing I found is I couldn't make the gold sound as sweet as the Weber.

Seegs
03-05-2012, 09:31 AM
Wow I've had a much different experience with Blues. I much prefer the Golds and have no problem with them right out of the box...

Just want a different flavor and preferably one that blends well with a Gold...each being in a seperate cab.

Anyone mix a Scumnico and Gold?

Chow,
Seegs

JaminJuno
08-09-2012, 06:03 PM
Bumping this thread up once more if I may...

Currently tossing up between a Gold and a 30w Scumnico for a 25w combo. I am after a nice Voxy chime with maximum character but also want a round, full sound without being harsh or fatiguing. I like the description of the Scumnico on paper, but some clips I have heard it just sounds a bit mid-scooped and lifeless, especially overdriven compared to the Gold. Has anyone found this is the case? Is the Gold lacking in the low end warmth department?