Michael Karoli, CAN & Michael Rother, Neu!

[lorez]

I'm trying to find some more info on Michael Karoli and CAN, primarily what was the typical gear he used and when. I'm guessing most of the sounds are strat > wah > fuzz > phaser > amp but was there more?

Also, his playing style is quite unique with a middle eastern influence, what types of scales is he using?

My other guitar hero is Michael Rother of Neu!, can anyone shed a light on what he was playing and the type of techniques he might of been using?

Cheers

[tim gueguen]

I've been told that Karoli used a Fuzzface into a Twin.

Rother has a homepage at http://www.michaelrother.de/en/ Looking at the pictures on the site his NEU!/Harmonia era guitars were a leopard print covered Fender Mustang and a goldtop Les Paul of some sort. Can't tell what kind of amp or pedals he used. http://www.michaelrother.de/img/harmonia/600/Arbeitsplatz-Rother.html

[lorez]

Hi tim, thanks for that. I've seen the stuff on Rothers website and really like that mustang.

[seiko]

Karoli was using a fuzzface, some kind of phaser and a tape echo (Klemt, maybe?). Can was perfectly capable of building or modding gear so keep that in mind.

[mbargav]

I had a Can phase a few years ago, and I found that an octave fuzz was great for getting some of Karoli's tones on early Can records. Think I used a CB Ottava Magus stacked with a FDII back then. If you like Karoli's playing on the early Can records, I highly recommend you also check out the 13th Floor Elevators.

[teleharmonium]

Inside the gatefold of Musik Von Harmonia, there's a shadowy photo that shows the rigs of all 3 musicians. You can see Rother's stuff in a similar arrangement on at least one Neu ! video online. None of them are all that clear, but I think there's at least one Klemt/Echolette delay and probably a Binson and it looks like a mixer as well.

The studio recordings could have been built up in various ways, but he got similar sounds in the few live recordings that exist from back then, so it seems he was an early adapter to the concept of splitting the guitar signal and running it through multiple channels of delays and other effects. Obviously volume pedals were important as well. I assume he had one directly after the guitar and possibly additional volume pedals as channel inserts or after channel direct outs, before or after the additional effects.

I saw him play live last year, but he used no real amp and seemed to mainly get it all from one modeling rig with preset effects for each song on a laptop, with a few other effects including what looked like a Lexicon rack unit. He still sounded like himself and he was doing panning effects the whole set. He played a recent strat for that show, but I don't think the type of guitar is particularly important for his sounds.

I think Rother is one of the most influential musicians around, in pop music. Without Neu! there's no Sex Pistols, Joy Division, U2, certain David Bowie songs, or their derivatives. Lots of people were using delay, fuzz, and volume pedals in the early 70s, but nobody sounded like him as far as I've ever heard. He saw the potential early on for using them together in a way that showed he had a mind for production and for creating strong tunes around those sounds.

[lorez]

Seiko, thanks for the tip about their own gear creations, I will see about the tape echo's.

mbargav, I'll dig out the octave fuzz and give it a go then. I've been using a fuzz face and tonebender at the moment. I love the 13th floor elevators and you can see the influence a lot on the stuff they did with Michael Mooney.

teleharmonium, you are right in the influence that Rother has had on music. Without him there would be so much that wouldn't be the same from electronica to punk to indie. He is sensational. I have read interviews where he talks about how it was difficult to recreate his music live in the 70s and that today he does a lot of it with loopers and samples.

I have a few good tips on how to try and get that sound now, thanks.

[Chrome Dinette]

I think Rother is one of the most influential musicians around, in pop music. Without Neu! there's no Sex Pistols, Joy Division, U2, certain David Bowie songs, or their derivatives. Lots of people were using delay, fuzz, and volume pedals in the early 70s, but nobody sounded like him as far as I've ever heard. He saw the potential early on for using them together in a way that showed he had a mind for production and for creating strong tunes around those sounds.



Great post.




Also, Lorez, if you haven't heard it already, you might like Rother playing with Kraftwerk on the Radio Bremen material.

[seiko]

I'm trying to find some more info on Michael Karoli and CAN, primarily what was the typical gear he used and when. I'm guessing most of the sounds are strat > wah > fuzz > phaser > amp but was there more?

Also, his playing style is quite unique with a middle eastern influence, what types of scales is he using?

Thought about this a bit. If I was going for a modern take on Karoli's sound I'd grab a strat, a Crybaby Wah-MXR Classic Fuzz 108 (the buffer works well with the wah and gives the fuzz sound a bit more clarity)-MXR RI Phase 90-EH Pulsar Trem-EH Deluxe Memory Boy. The amp is tricky cos they used Farfisa tube amps, which appear to be Marshall-ish.

As to the playing on the early stuff (68-72), I think a lot of its still your general minor pentatonic rock guitar stuff. The difference being that he avoids your classic blues bends and the b3. He's also fond of sliding double stops around to fill in texture and resolving phrases to notes that yer classic blues rocker wouldn't.

[lorez]

Seiko, thanks for that, its brilliant. I wondered about using an analog delay in there and was drawing a blank on the amps.

With the playing I know what you mean about not using too many blues cliche's. I also thought that there was a bit of use of the phrygian mode thrown in as well