WCR Prices Rise yet again!!!!

[fuzzyguitars]

When last checked on the site, their prices went up on the pickups that were originally 250.

THe good news is that the goodwoods prices went down.

I just bought a set of goodwoods a few weeks back and they ship em without springs or mounting screws!


They sound great, but man, they are really pricey!


(THIS POSTING HAS BEEN EDITED!!!!)

[sabbath90]

wow. that's kind of ridiculous. i love my darkbursts...but jeez.

[WCR]

Nothing ridiculous about it. Prices rose AGAIN? When was the last time that happened? Hell, even *I* can't remember. I believe that is the 1st and only increase in Fillmores, Darkburst, or Crossroads to ever occur since the day I started selling them as a business.
Every time you look? That is a flat-out wrong and false accusation to make.My prices have remained very consistent for a long, long time. In the meantime all of *my* costs have been rising during all that time. Inflation counts, doesn't it? If you notice, the prices *include* UPSP Priority Shipping, Insured, with Delivery Confirmation. And I usually (almost ALWAYS)get them out in a couple of days. Know anyone else who gets their hand-built product built and shipped to Hong Kong in 2-3 days? At a flat rate?
I've had a shortage of covers, and have a lot of guys waiting on them, but they will be here probably tomorrow or Thurs.. Been almost a 2 month wait on those. (Kinda off-topic, but I know some guys are getting tired of the wait).
You may also notice that I came DOWN in prices on Goodwoods and HERCS the same amount the others went up..
I am not a hobby winder, and have overhead to pay. If I am to continue doing this, I have to constantly put out cash just to keep my stuff running like it is now.
Springs and screws? In 11 years of this, I NEVER have. Everybody always wants to use the originals. When somebody asks for screws (maybe 5 times that I can remember in all these years) I ship them, at MY cost, Priority to see to it they receive them ASAP. Sure, you can order them from allparts, but THEY charge for them as well, and don't send them free Priority, snail, or otherwise.
I also, ( and have NEVER said this) occassionaly ship out FREE sets to some guys who are just having a rough time of it,and I find out about it. Always through 3rd parties. Who else does that?
I've been at this a long time. I HANDWIND my pickups. I am not automated. These are more artwork, than simple mass=produced items. I literally see every turn that goes on every coil. Me, myself, and I.I work 12-18 hours a day. If I automated, , I COULD afford to sell them cheap. You get what you pay for. Build them cheap and fast, and the sound WILL suffer.My customers are perfectionists, and I give them the best I possibly can.
If you think I ever ****ed anybody, bring 'em on. I have files a mile deep (well, that MAY be an exageration), of people who bought my stuff, and then sent not one, but several letters telling me how pleased they are. And that, my friend, is absolutley the best part of my job.

[Scott Peterson]

If you **** with the bull, you get the horns. :D

I am a huge proponent of WCR pickups, because I bought them and I use them and I freaking love them. I do think they are expensive and I have said that many times myself. But I'll also tell you - and look you in the eye to do so - that they are worth every penny.

And there are other makers out there, but Jim is the only one I know that truly cranks these things himself and I have never waited more than a few days for them ever. That is remarkable. Some guys will have you waiting for months.

[fuzzyguitars]

Originally posted by WCR
Nothing ridiculous about it. Prices rose AGAIN? When was the last time that happened? Hell, even *I* can't remember. I believe that is the 1st and only increase in Fillmores, Darkburst, or Crossroads to ever occur since the day I started selling them as a business.
Every time you look? That is a flat-out wrong and false accusation to make.My prices have remained very consistent for a long, long time. In the meantime all of *my* costs have been rising during all that time. Inflation counts, doesn't it? If you notice, the prices *include* UPSP Priority Shipping, Insured, with Delivery Confirmation. And I usually (almost ALWAYS)get them out in a couple of days. Know anyone else who gets their hand-built product built and shipped to Hong Kong in 2-3 days? At a flat rate?
I've had a shortage of covers, and have a lot of guys waiting on them, but they will be here probably tomorrow or Thurs.. Been almost a 2 month wait on those. (Kinda off-topic, but I know some guys are getting tired of the wait).
You may also notice that I came DOWN in prices on Goodwoods and HERCS the same amount the others went up..
I am not a hobby winder, and have overhead to pay. If I am to continue doing this, I have to constantly put out cash just to keep my stuff running like it is now.
Springs and screws? In 11 years of this, I NEVER have. Everybody always wants to use the originals. When somebody asks for screws (maybe 5 times that I can remember in all these years) I ship them, at MY cost, Priority to see to it they receive them ASAP. Sure, you can order them from allparts, but THEY charge for them as well, and don't send them free Priority, snail, or otherwise.
I also, ( and have NEVER said this) occassionaly ship out FREE sets to some guys who are just having a rough time of it,and I find out about it. Always through 3rd parties. Who else does that?
I've been at this a long time. I HANDWIND my pickups. I am not automated. These are more artwork, than simple mass=produced items. I literally see every turn that goes on every coil. Me, myself, and I.I work 12-18 hours a day. If I automated, , I COULD afford to sell them cheap. You get what you pay for. Build them cheap and fast, and the sound WILL suffer.My customers are perfectionists, and I give them the best I possibly can.
If you think I ever ****ed anybody, bring 'em on. I have files a mile deep (well, that MAY be an exageration), of people who bought my stuff, and then sent not one, but several letters telling me how pleased they are. And that, my friend, is absolutley the best part of my job.

Jim

Don't take this as a personal attack. I myself bought a set of goodwoods at 325. I wrongly thought that I had purchased them at 300.00.

I guess I mistakenly assumed because the crossroads and fillmore's went up in price that the goodwoods did also!


I have to agree with Peterson that even though they are expensive, I do agree that they do live up to expectations and can transform expensive turds into the prized possesions!

As a small business owner myself I can sympathize with your overhead costs and the bottom line. It is tough to do business here in California!

[Scumback Speakers]

I play my Darkbursts WAY more than my PAF's. Not exactly a bad thing, to my way of thinking, especially since the DB's are a great pickup tone. There's a big difference in the price I paid for those two sets. As a matter of fact, I was lucky and paid low 4 figures (years back now) for my pair of PAF's. In contrast, I could have five or six sets of WCR's at current prices and have money left over now.

If I'd known of the WCR's before I got the PAF's, I'd have alot more money in the bank, too....specifically, low 4 figures, at least, if you don't count the interest from four years back.

[WCR]

Well I guess what pissed me off the most was the thread title.
"Prices Rise Yet Again." Some went up, some went down, all equal ammounts. Evening up the field some.
It just looks and sounds like I'm doing it every month. I felt I HAD to take it personally, and respond as I did.
The bummer is I have to charge sales tax in California to other Californians. You are right, it sucks to do business here. But the weather and the views......:D

Your last post reminds me of an Odd Couple show once. Remember how Felix remembered how to spell "assume?"
He said "Assume" makes an ASS of U and ME....
:p ( i wish there was a better laughing emicon! )

I AM VERY glad you like what you got. I never take offense at remarks like that ! lolol

I know what ya mean Scumbag! When I first started doing this (actually just BEFORE I started) I was looking to get some PAFs. Back them, they were $750-$1500 per SET. And I thought THAT was way too much, and couldn't afford it. So I just got me a roll of wire, and spent the next decade or so trying to figure it all out !
:p :p

[Scumback Speakers]

Yeah, I hear you, Wags. Buying speakers ad nauseum until you get the good ones is kinda expensive, too. Sure be nice if there was just ONE ingredient to the whole tone thing...

:rolleyes:

[GuitarsFromMars]

Hey Wags-just tell'em not to let the screen door hit 'em in the keester:D

I guess the general public hasn't figured out it costs a BUNDLE to be the'fookin ahrtist'(to quote the late great John Lennon)that you are my friend....too many guys who have more money than sense(and I have said this verbatim to several of our mutual acquaintances) have yet to realize the DECADES involved in the development and design of your products....not to mention quick turn around,the utter lack of vacations you get,and the high standards you make a consistent effort to maintain to put out the products that you do-much love to you and Ms Carol,Brother-OUT:dude

[AndreasG]

I'm no WCR customer yet, but might be as I'm looking for a double-humbucker guitar. Seeing the prices, I think 300 to 400 $ for a great set of pups will do you more good than spending 200-300 on the 10th overdrive/fuzz/distortion/tremolo/vibe....... box.
I just noticed this after playing a whole rehearsal with just my Firebird and my Marshall (73 Non-Master). I had a Bluesbreaker- od-box at my feet, but only switched it on to get a LITTLE more hair a couple of times.

BTW, anybody have a 61 RI SG or "normal" RI les Paul with WCR in it? How's the sound?

[CBeeper]

I love my Fillmore's! They turned a decent LP Classic into a tone machine. I have a set of Strat pickups on the way and I can't wait to hear them. Jim, you rule!

[alderbody]

WCR's are WORTH EVERY PENNY!!!

btw, i'm one of the five Jim mentioned about asking for humbucker screws.

yes, he shipped them with the crossroads set at no extra charge!

And it took me only a few days to get my pickups after placing the order (both times). and i live in Greece!!!...

i consider my self really privileged to have done busyness with Jim Wagner and finally own some of his stuff.


:AOK

[muddy]

jim has the biggest heart on the planet. they don't make 'em any nicer or more honest, and i KNOW how hard the guy works to be able to deliver such a stellar product. and you'll never hear from this guy that there's gonna have to be a 4-8 week wait! NEVER! that entitles him to get paid well, don'tcha think?


ml

[Mike Hansen]

I think if his pickups were twice the price, they'd still be a steal.

[Dote]

Hi there,

I have to jump to Jim´s defense and say that not only is he a dream to do business with, he really knows what it takes to make a great PU.

I have bought three sets from Jim this year, a set of Fillmores and two sets of Crossroads.

I am very happy with the PUs and only sold the Fillmores, since they were too hot for my tastes.

Jim supplied me with a set of screws at NO charge! And he sent the PUs in express time to me.

Keep up the good work Jim!

Cheers,

Dominik

[waylon]

the pickups Wagner makes are worth whatever it costs. I have them in all my guitars except one which will be getting a pair of Crossroads shortly when I get the money together.

[tacorivers]

One more happy customer! I have two sets of WCR's, and would order more if I had the guitars to put them in.

[Leonc]

I've been in business for 16 years and in my experience, a decision to raise any prices didn't come easily but was typically 6 months or more overdue, based on my cost-basis.

I'm a big fan of Jim Wagner's work. Very good stuff. Very good. His pickups are still a good value, IMO. They're the best.

[qyetyme]

So I just wanted to post some thoughts here.

If you think about it, because of the increase in the cost of oil/gas, everything that Jim orders that gets shipped to him to make his pickups costs him more because of shipping, and his his shipping of the pickups costs more. So, he could have kept the prices the same and made it up charging for shipping, as well as potentially not always getting them there right away because the customer would choose the shipping method, but he decided to be stand up about it, and take the potential flames to keep up his high level of service that we have all raved about.

I will also say this. In the Baker I used to have, I had a set of pickups from another boutique manufacturer for a similar prices plus shipping, they took 12 weeks to get here,and the neck pickup arrived with one of the coils not working. I ended up nver being happy with the sound, so I ordered a set of Filmores, got them in 2 days and they were perfect. Jeff (hansoloist) and I talked about it when he was thinking about getting them for his Thorn. I currently don't have any HB guitars, but when I do, I will most certainly put in a set of Jim's pickups.

ok, I'm done now :).

-eric

[fyler]

great pickups. great dude. great value.

[Ridgeback]

Jim, I have your pups in both my HB guitars and couldn't be happier. Crossroads in my Lucille and a DB\GW combo in my LP. You spent an inordinate amount of time responding to my questions on the phone and by e-mail making sure I got exactly what I wanted. First class pups, first class service, quick turnaround, and a nice guy to boot. Everyone's entitled to their opinion but I just wanted to add my support to help offset what (IMHO) started out as an unfair and uninformed thread. Keep on winding.

[WCR]

Originally posted by Mike Hansen
I think if his pickups were twice the price, they'd still be a steal.


Hmmm, lemme think about that awhile, hmmmmmmm :p :p

You guys are too kind. I just do what I do because I like it, the rest is because you guys are such great support and drive a guy to do only his best. You accept nothing less.
Hey, Eric, on the shipping part, you're pretty close. I have had materials on the rise for awhile right along with shipping costs. I just include it all in the final price. I tried having shipping with it's own buttons, but guys would almost always be in such a big rush, that they would overlook it, and I'd have to spend even more time telling them about it. So I just have it to where you just clik on what ya want, and it's all over but the playin' . And you guys certainly have THAT part down!!:dude :dude :dude

[the_Chris]

Jim is the man, plain and simple. He makes the best pickups I've ever heard and I WILL keep buying them. His customer service is second to none. He always has prompt communication (I'm struggling with one person at the moment with that).

He deserves every cent he gets from them!

[JoeYello]

I ordered a set of Darkbursts in double creme (which aren't even listed on the website) on Thursday afternoon (EST), they arrived on Monday. That's service. Jim answered my emails immediately and was very accomodating.

I put the DB's in a 03 R8 Les Paul. I don't believe that this guitar could sound any better. Jim will get more business from me.

[yawner]

Originally posted by fuzzyguitars
As a small business owner myself I can sympathize with your overhead costs and the bottom line. It is tough to do business here in California!

...don't know where you get the idea that it's only Calif that's a tough business market.

If it's just Jim that is making product (and a high quality one at that) he has to be in balance to maintain decent price points. Be glad he has'nt reached tipover....where you're faced with the classic choice of getting bigger (with employees, larger space, etc.) or staying the small overworked self starter he already is. I say we pay the bill and support a superior product.

or.....there's always SD.

[sabbath90]

mr. wagner,
i would like to apologize for calling the price raise ridiculous. i didn't even think about really. i feel incredibly dumb for doing that. i really do love my darkbursts. my pickup quest has ended for that guitar. i am truly sorry for saying something as insensitive as that. i truly didn't even think about your costs and the fact that they are handwound. now that i think about it, your pickups cost less than many effects pedals. sorry mr. wagner.

best regards

[DavidE]

Seems to me that Fuzzy owes a huge apology for falsely accusing Mr. Wagner of constantly (or frequently) raising his pickup prices when this is the first time.

"WCR Prices Rise yet again!!!!
I can't believe it.

Every time I check back to the site, their prices keep going up!
"

[G'OlPeachPhan]

Just called Jim today in fact about ordering a THIRD set of his pickups, this time for a little guitar project I'm putting together.

Jim couldn't be a nicer guy, and couldn't make a better product. He is an artist, not some moron watching a machine do the work.

If you want the good stuff to get the good tone, pay the price, shut your mouth, and play your axe. Otherwise, go and buy mass produced mediocre pickups and settle for run-of-the-mill tone.

Anyone who thinks it's easy and cheap to run your own business needs to try walking a mile in those less-than-comfortable sneakers.

GREAT stuff Jim. I'm a customer for as long as you keep winding, and I'll be a fan of your work a lot longer than that. I support any price increase you need to make for whatever reason - be it to cover your costs, stay in business, or even to make more money live more comfortably. Whatever it takes to keep you happy and winding. You alone get my hard earned dollars for working your wire bobbin magnet magic in the best interest of axes and axeslingers everywhere!

[johnc]

Jim bent over backwards to ensure that I was happy with his pickups. I would go into more specifics on what he did, but, he'd probably be forced to go out of business if it were advertised.

You'll just have to take my word that Jim's customer service is the best of anyone that I have ever dealt with.

Thanks Jim! Keep up the good work.

[e-flat]

Just wanted to add that, in the hype filled realm of boutique/handmade/upper end music gear, WCR stnads out to me as one of the handfull of companies who sells a product at a price BELOW the musical/inspirational value of the product. I own a set of Crossroads that Jim really took time to help me decide on, and I feel that even though I don't correspond with Jim regularly, he is a friend that I feel 110% safe going back to for my future Humbucker needs. While there are a few companies out there that might deserve some ire for their pricing, Jim is about as far from that as they come.
I'm glad to see that this thread worked itself out in a positive way.
Oh, and I'm still keeping my eyes peeled for an Ellensburg Blue for ya Jim! ;) :dude

[cvansickle]

Does Jim have any plans for a P90 variant? "Westworld" maybe (a la Leslie West)? I'm holding out...

[AndreasG]

.....it might be interesting to note that WCR Pups (Fillmores or Crossroads set) are piced about the same as DiMarzio Virtual pafs, about 200$ (!!) cheaper than SD Antiquities, and about 100 $ cheaper than Burstbuckers. As long as there's no distributor over here, the prices are GREAT.
Might hurry up finding a guitar I could put a set in....

[fuzzyguitars]

Originally posted by DavidE
Seems to me that Fuzzy owes a huge apology for falsely accusing Mr. Wagner of constantly (or frequently) raising his pickup prices when this is the first time.

"WCR Prices Rise yet again!!!!
I can't believe it.

Every time I check back to the site, their prices keep going up!
"

I did apologize. DID YOU SEE MY FOLLOW UP POSTING?

[DavidE]

Now I see it, but in my book you didn't apologize for the main thing you got wrong.

[fuzzyguitars]

How about the ultimate apology?

I ordered no less than 5 more pickups from him!!!

[gdwill2u]

Originally posted by WCR
Nothing ridiculous about it. Prices rose AGAIN? When was the last time that happened? Hell, even *I* can't remember. I believe that is the 1st and only increase in Fillmores, Darkburst, or Crossroads to ever occur since the day I started selling them as a business.
Every time you look? That is a flat-out wrong and false accusation to make.My prices have remained very consistent for a long, long time. In the meantime all of *my* costs have been rising during all that time. Inflation counts, doesn't it? If you notice, the prices *include* UPSP Priority Shipping, Insured, with Delivery Confirmation. And I usually (almost ALWAYS)get them out in a couple of days. Know anyone else who gets their hand-built product built and shipped to Hong Kong in 2-3 days? At a flat rate?
I've had a shortage of covers, and have a lot of guys waiting on them, but they will be here probably tomorrow or Thurs.. Been almost a 2 month wait on those. (Kinda off-topic, but I know some guys are getting tired of the wait).
You may also notice that I came DOWN in prices on Goodwoods and HERCS the same amount the others went up..
I am not a hobby winder, and have overhead to pay. If I am to continue doing this, I have to constantly put out cash just to keep my stuff running like it is now.
Springs and screws? In 11 years of this, I NEVER have. Everybody always wants to use the originals. When somebody asks for screws (maybe 5 times that I can remember in all these years) I ship them, at MY cost, Priority to see to it they receive them ASAP. Sure, you can order them from allparts, but THEY charge for them as well, and don't send them free Priority, snail, or otherwise.
I also, ( and have NEVER said this) occassionaly ship out FREE sets to some guys who are just having a rough time of it,and I find out about it. Always through 3rd parties. Who else does that?
I've been at this a long time. I HANDWIND my pickups. I am not automated. These are more artwork, than simple mass=produced items. I literally see every turn that goes on every coil. Me, myself, and I.I work 12-18 hours a day. If I automated, , I COULD afford to sell them cheap. You get what you pay for. Build them cheap and fast, and the sound WILL suffer.My customers are perfectionists, and I give them the best I possibly can.
If you think I ever ****ed anybody, bring 'em on. I have files a mile deep (well, that MAY be an exageration), of people who bought my stuff, and then sent not one, but several letters telling me how pleased they are. And that, my friend, is absolutley the best part of my job.

I feel for you bro, I own a construction business, and everyone wants cheaper prices while gas, labor and materials keep going up.

I have raised my prices to maintain my profit margins and I will continue to do so...to do otherwise is business suicide.

Good luck, I know nothing about your pick ups, but pass on those cost increases to your customers or they won't have you there to produce anything.

[JNixon]

Originally posted by the_Chris
Jim is the man, plain and simple. He makes the best pickups I've ever heard and I WILL keep buying them. His customer service is second to none. ...

He deserves every cent he gets from them!

+1. Couldn't have said it any better.

[WCR]

Man, have I EVER been apologized to! :p I musta got 2-3 different orders from this thread ! lol
Thanx Fuzzy, I know you or anyone else meant any harm. Same with you Sabbath.I don't know what else to say to you guys but THANK YOU ALL !
Now after all this talk about how fast I am, I AIN'T gonna be so fast this week.
My help (Carol) just shot down to L.A. to help welcome in a brand new baby girl this morning, (her daughters, not ours) while I stayed here and went to the doctor this afternoon, again, for the same mung I've had for at least 3 weeks now. It has decided to become pneumonia, so I got all stocked up on anti-biotics and inhalers again today. Needless to say, I'm on the slow side this week. But it's either sit and watch TV and make no pickups or money, or sit wind these babies up and pay some more bills !. :p
Also got the new covers in today, and they are the SH-T !
Shorter skirts, very nicely detailed and squared-off corners. They are at the polishers, and I should get a bunch back tomorrow so I can start sending some back-orders out.. FINALLY. Man, what a wait THAT was.

E-FLAT!! How are ya Bro!!! Yeah, I have wondered occasionaly about the Blues...... (We both know about a rare blue agate that is only found around Ellensburg WA. Consequently called an Ellensburg Blue.)

I'm goin' back to work. Haven't gotten a lot done today, to many distractions. Thanx again for all the kind words, support, ........and orders ! :dude :dude

[Thelonius]

Given all the praise I hear over these pickups I'd figure the post title would be "Why haven't WCR prices risen again????"

Jim, I have a question. I have a Les Paul with brushed aluminum hardware (similar to the "platinum" lesters and SGs) Can you supply covers in that finish, or do your pickups (specifically the hercs or the goodwoods) line up with stock 490R/498T pole pieces?

Sorry to derail the thread from bashing your lack of frequent price increases.

[WCR]

Originally posted by Thelonius
Given all the praise I hear over these pickups I'd figure the post title would be "Why haven't WCR prices risen again????"

Jim, I have a question. I have a Les Paul with brushed aluminum hardware (similar to the "platinum" lesters and SGs) Can you supply covers in that finish, or do your pickups (specifically the hercs or the goodwoods) line up with stock 490R/498T pole pieces?

Sorry to derail the thread from bashing your lack of frequent price increases.

:p that last one's funny...:)

The pole-piece centers are the same.If you have covers on yours, they will fit my pups if that's what you have in mind.
The covers I carry now are solid nickle-silver. Not plated at all. Same material as the chassis. If they get dinged, chances are it can be polished back out. What's cool about them is they can be polished out (the way I sell them) or aged very easily. In fact they can age themselves very well. They are very vintagy. When the cameras get back here next week, I'll post some pictures of them so you can get a better idea of what they look like both in shape and texture. I am really jazzed over them. They got here about 2 months later than they were supposed to, but it was well worth the wait.

[tele_disease]

Folks

I paid full price for a set of GoodWoods, shipping and insurance to Australia, conversion to $Aus currency and international charging "charges".

Made the GoodWoods about $600 of our Australian dollars. In my view, I would be happy to pay this for ONE of these pickups, but I got two.

Compared to PAF's and Patent # buckers these things are a steal at any cost less than a REALLY GOOD SET OF PAF's (and how many of those exist in reality, that someone is silly enough to sell?????)

Jim is the man and should be congratulated for producing what he does for 1/10th of the price of similar (1958-62) products.

:dude

[niersbach]

All I can add is htat the Darkbursts I just added to my McNaught are absolutely the best pups I have ever heard (although what I have heard is pretty limited) It has made a guitar I was contemplating letting go magically be transformed into my main guitar without a doubt. As far as the price goes, I spent well over 3 grand on the guitar, so 10 percent of that cost for the actual pups seems pretty trivial to me, especially considering how much your choice of pups affects the sound of it. I mean, guys dont even blink at the thought of spending an extra 400 - 500 for a particularly nice looking top on a guitar and are now saying that an extra 50 bucks for a hand made pup is too much (well not anymore, the guys that stated this in the beginning have retracted those statements)

All in all I would say that the price that Jim charges is well under what the pups are actually worth to me (so I need to quick call and order pups for the rest of my guitars before he figures this out and raises the price to meet the demand!!)

You do absolutely killer work Jim, and I just want you to know that your efforts are well appreciated!

[ricoh]

Crossroads + LP/SG Re-Issue= WOW!!!!!

[davebc]

Jim,don't ever feel that you need to justify your prices!
I'm surprized that you even took the time to address this.We all know you're a stand up guy who make a killer product.
Anybody with half a brain knows that inflation is alive and well;and that there's nothing today that you could have bought for the same price five years ago.

[leofenderbender]

Give me a break.

This thread has turned into a lovefest for a company that sells wire & magnets that raised their prices.

Give me a break.

[Scott Peterson]

Originally posted by leofenderbender
Give me a break.

This thread has turned into a lovefest for a company that sells wire & magnets that raised their prices.

Give me a break.

Try them before you knock them.

[leofenderbender]

Originally posted by Scott Peterson
Try them before you knock them.

DONE.

[jeffhef]

Someone mentioned how he handwinds each one and that nobody else does that. I know of one other - Tim White (Timbuckers). I have Timbuckers in my LP and love 'em. What's even more amazing about Jim though is that he does this and gets 'em out in such a short time. I think the waiting list for TB's right now is close to 2 years. At least it was last I heard. Since I started frequenting TGP I haven't spent much time at LPF so I'm not really sure. Of course...Tim has a day job so he does the best he can.

I've also had Tom Holmes PUP's. I assure you I paid more for those than Jim's PUP's. I loved those too. Wish I still had 'em. My next PUP's will be Crossroads. I've heard 'em...I like 'em...I gotta have 'em. Wish I could right now but...

Anyway...Jim's right. You get what you pay for.

Pickups seem to be one of those items that we are less reluctant to pay the big dollars for. I mean...all you guys who have the booteeky amps (that'd be me too)...did you complain about the price? Well maybe...but you paid it and are glad you did.

Anyway...no point to make...

Well maybe there is a point...

Support guys like Jim, Doug, Tim, etc. These guys are dedicated to making something special. They don't just throw things together. They ARE artists. They ARE true craftsmen. And you know what else?

(Imagine "My Country 'Tis Of Thee" playing in the background for effect)

They are part of a dying cottage industry in this country. We've become a country of consumers. Every other country makes stuff for us. We've stopped producing anything. We just consume. But Jim and the others I've mentioned are producing. They take the time to learn a craft and build things with their hands. They take pride in making a superior product. Consider that the Crossroads pickup in your guitar was made by ONE MAN. One man who took the time to learn a craft that only a handful of people REMEMBER how to do.

So I say...Jim raised his prices? WHAT TOOK YOU SO LONG!!!



Ok...I know I made it sound a little dramatic. But it really is the way I feel. Don't wanna pay Jim's prices? Buy some Dimarzios. Leave the good stuff for those of us who appreciate it.

jeffhef

[yawner]

Originally posted by leofenderbender
Give me a break.

This thread has turned into a lovefest for a company that sells wire & magnets that raised their prices.

Give me a break.



If you feel uncomfortable with public displays of emotion....don't look at it. :rolleyes:

[Just1more]

WCR's prices are probably about the same a lot of us paid for
those not so great Dimarzio Super Dist. & PAF pickups that almost everyone put in their LP's in the 70's, if you factor in the inflation.

[Scott Peterson]

Originally posted by leofenderbender
DONE.

Then cool. You have every right to your opinion and should voice it.

But it helps - truly - if you add context. The "why" and "how" you arrive at your opinon adds so much validity to your thoughts, I could type paragraphs about it. But I won't.

So add some context so we can understand where you are coming from.

[exodus]

You know-- I just got a set of WCR single coils for a project strat-- its going to be an olympic white '66 strat-- big headstock and all. So I got some WCR singles for it on a whim, hearing they were good.

Anyway, they were sitting around in the box for a week and I thought I'd test them out in my '69 custom shop strat. So soldered them in and fired up the amp and they sounded GREAT. And the thing that got me was that they were so clear sounding. My '69 coils sounded middy and muddy compaired to the WCRs. The other thing was that the bridge pickup sounded AWESOME! I mean, I like to play with the thing now. It has a lot of treble, but in that Jimmy Page / Rockin good way. It sounds AMAZING with some fuzz or an OCD. Anyway, these pickups just sound soooo clear and defined that I suddenly hear my rig in a whole new way. Pedals that I thought were kinda brash are now lush... it has made the biggest difference in my setup.

Anyway-- I don't mean to gush. None of this came from this thread with prices or whatnot. I just put my set in a week ago and its like night and day-- they are so clear even balanced. Oh, and as far as price goes...

...they are a good deal. And all the fun some people are having with jumping on the bandwagon slamming the guy who posted this thread-- lets get over it. If you have not tried them, they do seem like a lot of money. If you have tried them, the seem like a deal. Everyone falls on one side or the other. :)

[Eric Pykala]

Christ, for the price of the "overdrive of the day" you can get some pickups that radically redefine your Tone through any rig! I just put my SRs into my Musicman Silhouette Special. I'll wait 'til after tonight's rehearsal to do a full Tone report, but these add so much to all the stuff/money I've thrown at my rig that I find the price refreshingly low. Lovefest yes, but Jim has really got something going here, and we're trying to share it with all of you. Now, I just need a set of Goodwoods to put in my soon-to-arrive PRS HBII AP piezo...-Eric

[tybone]

Can you feel the love in this room right now.:RoCkIn

I Got my darkburst based on good reviews and soundclips. My les paul is now one of the most epressive guitars I have. I played it through the opal in a band context this week and was just feelin' all smiley and wonderful inside? I would pay in canadian dollars twice for that kind of stuff. By the way the shipping was pretty quick to Canada. The came way before I expected them.

But most of all the DO sound farging sweet.

[leofenderbender]

Originally posted by Scott Peterson
Then cool. You have every right to your opinion and should voice it.

But it helps - truly - if you add context. The "why" and "how" you arrive at your opinon adds so much validity to your thoughts, I could type paragraphs about it. But I won't.

So add some context so we can understand where you are coming from.

The context is "upmarketing" - the word of the day.

Selling a product at a higher than average price which causes consumers to think they are getting more value than they actually are. Further increases in price causes increases in relative perceived value. WCRs were priced well among the top before the price increase.

In this case, value has not really increased but the perception of it has - look at the posts in this thread.

[jeffhef]

Originally posted by leofenderbender
The context is "upmarketing" - the word of the day.

Selling a product at a higher than average price which causes consumers to think they are getting more value than they actually are. Further increases in price causes increases in relative perceived value. WCRs were priced well among the top before the price increase.

In this case, value has not really increased but the perception of it has - look at the posts in this thread.

I don't disagree. You know...it's kinda like that thread a few months ago about the price of Trainwrecks. They're worth what people are willing to pay.

I'm not jumping to Jim's defense. I just think it's cool that there are people like him & Tim White who do this. Not everyone's looking for this kind of special stuff. Are they overpriced? I don't know. Maybe they are. But I guess I just don't see a problem with making a profit.

The church where I play bought a Demeter SSC-1 a few months ago on my recommendation. You know...the silent cab. AFter playing it for a few months we decided to try our hand at building one. The actual construction isn't a big deal as we do have the people capable of doing it. What surprised me was how quickly the materials add up. Even if you buy in bulk and get better pricing it's still more expensive than I thought it would be.

Same happened when I put together a custom Strat style guitar about 3 years ago. Ended up costing me more in the long run.

I don't know how much it costs to make a set of Crossroads. But they are custom made and wound by hand. I know for a fact that Jim is open to customizing the wind to try to get exactly the tone that's in your head. Goodwoods...LPF...

Anyway...as I said...not coming to his defense. I wish prices were lower. But you (not you specifically...more like all of us) sit down and learn the trade...and build the special tools...and buy the materials...and take the time...it's awfully difficult to determine if you're being gouged. Personally...I just don't take offense to someone making a profit. Can't expect people to work for free. Anyone willing to put in 8 hours a day and not get paid everyday of the week? And let's face it...anyone who's run their own business knows it takes a lot more than 8 hours a day when it's YOUR business.

Man I post long messages.

jeffhef

jeffhef

[G'OlPeachPhan]

Originally posted by leofenderbender
The context is "upmarketing" - the word of the day.

Selling a product at a higher than average price which causes consumers to think they are getting more value than they actually are. Further increases in price causes increases in relative perceived value. WCRs were priced well among the top before the price increase.

In this case, value has not really increased but the perception of it has - look at the posts in this thread.

You're so off base it's not even funny... The price has nothing to do with the perception about these pickups. Tons of us here own these things, and the glowing reviews based on what ears and fingers feel around the globe is what's fueling the love here. If you can't appreciate the benefits these pickups provide to your tone, then maybe you don't hear and feel things the same as the rest of us here. If you don't appreciate the differences between Wag's 'buckers and a set of Burstbuckers or SD's, then by all means, you should absolutely spend less money and go with the cheaper pickups.

Pickup winding IS an artform. There are VERY clear differences as to how a pickup will sound depending upon HOW it is wound, and Jim's handwound methods are a proven winner for the vast majority who have tried his pickups... Most who have sampled the Kool-Aid tend to go back for more; go figure. There's lots of hype and hysteria out there in the guitar gear world, and a high price often DOES drive a lot of that (along with placebo effect), but in my (and many others') experiences, Wag's pickups are not hype or hysteria by any means... Far from it.

Further, Wag's pickups have been yielding these kinds of responses from axe-slingers LONG before any price increase.

Oh, and thanks for the economics lesson by the way. Always nice to read about value perception in a place where I come to read about guitar gear. :rolleyes:

Just as an aside, "upmarketing" doesn't necessarily have anything to do with pricing, as that's only one component of it. I'm sure you can find a better forum than this one to discuss marketing and economics theories and concepts though.

Oh, and BTW, if you're still looking for that break you asked for earlier, I got your....... OK, I guess that's enough. I get a little wound up sometimes. No ill will intended. Nevermind. ;)

[Shemp]

Originally posted by WCR
Nothing ridiculous about it. Prices rose AGAIN? When was the last time that happened? Hell, even *I* can't remember. I believe that is the 1st and only increase in Fillmores, Darkburst, or Crossroads to ever occur since the day I started selling them as a business.
Every time you look? That is a flat-out wrong and false accusation to make.My prices have remained very consistent for a long, long time. In the meantime all of *my* costs have been rising during all that time. Inflation counts, doesn't it? If you notice, the prices *include* UPSP Priority Shipping, Insured, with Delivery Confirmation. And I usually (almost ALWAYS)get them out in a couple of days. Know anyone else who gets their hand-built product built and shipped to Hong Kong in 2-3 days? At a flat rate?
I've had a shortage of covers, and have a lot of guys waiting on them, but they will be here probably tomorrow or Thurs.. Been almost a 2 month wait on those. (Kinda off-topic, but I know some guys are getting tired of the wait).
You may also notice that I came DOWN in prices on Goodwoods and HERCS the same amount the others went up..
I am not a hobby winder, and have overhead to pay. If I am to continue doing this, I have to constantly put out cash just to keep my stuff running like it is now.
Springs and screws? In 11 years of this, I NEVER have. Everybody always wants to use the originals. When somebody asks for screws (maybe 5 times that I can remember in all these years) I ship them, at MY cost, Priority to see to it they receive them ASAP. Sure, you can order them from allparts, but THEY charge for them as well, and don't send them free Priority, snail, or otherwise.
I also, ( and have NEVER said this) occassionaly ship out FREE sets to some guys who are just having a rough time of it,and I find out about it. Always through 3rd parties. Who else does that?
I've been at this a long time. I HANDWIND my pickups. I am not automated. These are more artwork, than simple mass=produced items. I literally see every turn that goes on every coil. Me, myself, and I.I work 12-18 hours a day. If I automated, , I COULD afford to sell them cheap. You get what you pay for. Build them cheap and fast, and the sound WILL suffer.My customers are perfectionists, and I give them the best I possibly can.
If you think I ever ****ed anybody, bring 'em on. I have files a mile deep (well, that MAY be an exageration), of people who bought my stuff, and then sent not one, but several letters telling me how pleased they are. And that, my friend, is absolutley the best part of my job.

Hey Jim-

For what it's worth I just ordered a set of your Crossroads Pickups. Don't let the bastards get to you, just keep making a good product and the market will decide if they're priced correctly.

Jack Hamilton

[WCR]

Hey Jack ! How ya doin" :)
Nah, no one's gettin' to me. Exactly the opposite. I wish so many people liked me when I was tryin' to be a rock star.....:p :p
I suppose I could've made that post a little shorter. I raised some (3) , I lowered some (2)....all just a balancing thing. My prices on rent, mortgage, electricity, all my parts, etc. etc., just kept rising these last few years, so I finally had to make some adjustments. 1st time ever. The damn oil prices didn't help a bit. Shipping, transportation, man even some my PARTS are made of oil (plastic, wire insulation, etc). Steel parts cost more, because fuel to make them costs more, it just never ends.
All economics, plain and simple.:cool:
By the way, it's worth PLENTY Jack
:dude

[Scott Peterson]

Originally posted by leofenderbender
The context is "upmarketing" - the word of the day.

Selling a product at a higher than average price which causes consumers to think they are getting more value than they actually are. Further increases in price causes increases in relative perceived value. WCRs were priced well among the top before the price increase.

In this case, value has not really increased but the perception of it has - look at the posts in this thread.

Interesting. I assume you come from some sort of marketing background.

I have owned and run a full service advertising agency since 1993. Been in the industry since 1988.

The end thing is value - if you get what you want and feel you got value for the money you spent, then there you are. It isn't about marketing, Jim doesn't do much advertising - and truthfully his website isn't flashy, or much above anything else.

What I get from you truthfully is that you have some sort of chip on your shoulder about Jim or his company. True or not?

[Mark Kane]

Guys come to this place supposedly because they love musical gear and then they whine about a builder trying to make a decent living. Most of these guys should think about the value they bring to their employer playing on the internet all day. If you can't afford or don't see the value in it don't buy it, why try to build a case against a guy trying to make a living with his hands. If a builder is a rude asshole, or a crook, a ripoff artist, fine, fire away. But, trying to tell someone what they should charge for something is just plain bullshit. Walk a mile in their shoes.

[sabbath90]

man, i feel really bad about being a jerk to jim in the 2nd post in this thread. i absolutely love his pickups. i've got darkbursts in a les paul, SR's in a strat, and fillmores in my SG and think they're the best pickups i've ever tried(especially the darkbursts). thinking about it now i don't think the price was or is outrageous. they're priced very reasonably for how unbelievably good they are. WCR pickups IMO are in the leaque teese wahs, snake oil strings, and weber speakers...they're the very tops availible in their perspective areas (just my opinion).

ps-i don't think i'm hearing the difference because of the price i paid. i've compared them to a friend's timbuckers which are way harder to get than WCR's and ended up liking my darkbursts better. just my .02.

[wsaraceni]

i was just going to say that i didnt think 300 a pickup for hand wound pickups seemed that expensive. then i looked at the website the first time. 300 a PAIR???? that seems like a good deal to me.


lets see

i can spend
6000 on a guitar
2500 on an amp head
750 on a 2x12 cabinet
200 on a wah
200 on cables


that figures out to be just under 10000. and thats not including any other guitars..


whats another 300 on top of that? and i bought all that stuff when i was in college

:D

[jpagey]

Originally posted by leofenderbender
The context is "upmarketing" - the word of the day.

Selling a product at a higher than average price which causes consumers to think they are getting more value than they actually are. Further increases in price causes increases in relative perceived value. WCRs were priced well among the top before the price increase.

In this case, value has not really increased but the perception of it has - look at the posts in this thread.

Some could say this about the Landgraff, a pedal I know you love.
But no one is forced to buy anything from anyone. Value is only what it is worth to you. $300 to a struggling musician/college kid may seem like a lot. $300 to an established businessman who is also a musician may not seem expensive. Thankfully we all have choices. I think my next choice will be Darkburts. Jim, I need to talk to you about my PRS McCarty after the holiday. I will contact you.

[leofenderbender]

Originally posted by Scott Peterson
Interesting. I assume you come from some sort of marketing background.

I have owned and run a full service advertising agency since 1993. Been in the industry since 1988.

The end thing is value - if you get what you want and feel you got value for the money you spent, then there you are. It isn't about marketing, Jim doesn't do much advertising - and truthfully his website isn't flashy, or much above anything else.

What I get from you truthfully is that you have some sort of chip on your shoulder about Jim or his company. True or not?

Both assumptions of me are incorrect. I am not in marketing and have no “chip” as you suggest.

If “the end thing IS value,” unless we're talking about collectables, when price increases and the product is the same then value decreases. If price rises and a "perception" of value remains the same (such as I have seen in this thread) then there is an artificial market, a bubble. Bubbles burst. If this forum is his only market he’ll be fine since apparently nobody except for me sees that value is less than it was - classic upmarketing.

[jeffhef]

Everyone has a right to an opinion. I don't take what LFB is saying as a slam on Jim. And...Jim didn't start this thread.

jeffhef

[Scumback Speakers]

Originally posted by leofenderbender
If “the end thing IS value,” unless we're talking about collectables, when price increases and the product is the same then value decreases. If price rises and a "perception" of value remains the same (such as I have seen in this thread) then there is an artificial market, a bubble. Bubbles burst. If this forum is his only market he’ll be fine since apparently nobody except for me sees that value is less than it was - classic upmarketing.

Let's discuss value for a minute, LFB. Now this is just my experience to relate, hope this makes sense to you as I'm no marketing major/grad. I deal mostly in plain old common sense, something I know that "the Dow", "the market" and alot of economic factors don't, so bear with me, since it's all about tone, and the perceived value of it.

I own alot of pickups (most in a box now), well over 25 sets.

1) I have a pair of Burstbuckers I bought new in 02, $185 shipped (both BurstBuckers are in the box of pickups & no longer used).
2) I have some Voodoos, custom ordered in 2002, $290 shipped (in a seldom played guitar). They're good pups, but not as good as the DB's. These now cost $400 per set, by the way.
3) I have some PAF's (real ones) that I put in my 61 SG Std. Not surprisingly, I'm well into the four figure dollar amount on the PAF's, and even further into the whole guitar, figure around $6k total.
4) I've got some Darkbursts in my Keebler LP (took the Voodoos out of it to put the DB's in). The DB's cost $260 per set currently, the Voodoos go for over $400 as a custom wound set currently.

I play the Keebler LP with the DarkBursts as my main guitar for jams, recording, etc.

Since I pulled my two 61 SG's out of the cases for the first time yesterday in four months, I don't pull out my "party guitar" with the Voodoos anymore, and I certainly don't play "the pickups in the pickup box"... what is the value of the DarkBurst injected Keebler Les Paul that I play over all of my other choices?

I'll answer that for you. The DB/Keebler LP value is higher than all of the others combined because I get the tones I want out of it, and NOT out of all of the others. The others are good investments, but as far as value is concerned, I've spent well over $15k on the two 61 SG's, the party guitar and the now unused pickups in a box...

I've got over $3k into my Keebler, including the DarkBursts. Since the Keebler WITH the DarkBursts hands me the best tone, there is no argument that it is the best VALUE. That value would be severely lowered with any other pickup in the guitar.

VALUE is a hard thing to describe to each person, but if you base it on the pleasure, the tone, the feel, the sound and the rewards you get from the DB vs "the others", their value is exponentially much higher than all of the others...combined.

[Scott Peterson]

Originally posted by leofenderbender
Both assumptions of me are incorrect. I am not in marketing and have no “chip” as you suggest.

If “the end thing IS value,” unless we're talking about collectables, when price increases and the product is the same then value decreases. If price rises and a "perception" of value remains the same (such as I have seen in this thread) then there is an artificial market, a bubble. Bubbles burst. If this forum is his only market he’ll be fine since apparently nobody except for me sees that value is less than it was - classic upmarketing.

Then I'll call you right out on it - start your own company and then I'll give you more credence.

Flat out, if you don't like the pickups, well, fair enough.

But to get on somebody for their perceived value - as YOU define it - is flat out wrong. IMHO.

What you are basically saying is that though I and other owners of a given product are happy and find that we have value in our purchase, we are really just chumps buying substandard products at inflated prices.

Which, if I am reading this right (and you are being pretty non-forthcoming with that magic word I asked about "context") you are slamming both the company and the customers of said company.

Which, IMHO again, is pretty stupid.

If someone out there buys a nice hammer and values that hammer and likes it enough to praise it on a hammer forum... where do you get off telling them that their hammer is nothing special and simply markedup to take advantage of stupid consumers who don't know better.

Here is something to ponder for you, outside of marketing concepts that you really don't understand; "Never underestimate the customer."

[SteveK]

Sorry LFB, but I put a set of Darkburst's in my LP and NOW I know what value is all about. I couldn't believe the clarity AND fullness that I was hearing. Harmonically rich and still articulate. The folks in my band were stunned! (As I was) I've messed about with a sh-t load of other pups, and to our ears NOTHING comes close. As a matter of fact I have a set of DB's coming for Thorn #25, and delayed receiving Thorn #72 so it could have a set of DB's installed by Ron. Considering the amount of money I put into this hobby (we gig 2-3 times a month)on guitars, amps, pedals, etc., I think that these pups are among the best value out there. Just my .02 :D

[leofenderbender]

A rise in price immediately removes value from a product - especially for a product that is not scarce and is delivered as quickly as this one is. It results in selling fewer units and creates a secondary benefit to the resale market.

No offense, but I will benefit from the set that I will Ebay once I get tired of them. The pickups are very good but I will likely look elsewhere when I look to replace them and will try something else.

I consider my part of this discussion at an end, for the simple reason that most here have overreacted to my comments. I was not placing myself into any category, I was not lambasting anybody personally, I was not deriding someone's business - I was stating what I think - with the exception of jeffhef, the rest that can't handle the opinions of others, then participation in a forum is likely the wrong place for them.

It is difficult to discuss issues with people who choose the one side of an argument they will acknowledge and support, and ignore or slam each and every opinion divergent to that one. As I see it, every opinion that is different than those of the moderator has been squashed in this thread - threads with comments offering differing opinions were even edited out by them when the pressure of the moderator and his supporters came to bear.

I, too, work for myself - I have done it for decades - people pay me a lot of money to tell them why they aren't making a lot of money. Safe to say my point was missed altogether and never will be understood because it (likely) will never be acknowledged.

Looks to me like there are a number of people in this thread with a hidden agenda...

OUT

[davebc]

Originally posted by leofenderbender
Both assumptions of me are incorrect. I am not in marketing and have no “chip” as you suggest.

If “the end thing IS value,” unless we're talking about collectables, when price increases and the product is the same then value decreases. If price rises and a "perception" of value remains the same (such as I have seen in this thread) then there is an artificial market, a bubble. Bubbles burst. If this forum is his only market he’ll be fine since apparently nobody except for me sees that value is less than it was - classic upmarketing.

Personally I think you've completely over intellectualized this entire discussion.Theoretically it might work in the classroom, but imo doesn't translate very well here in a discussion as subjective and esoteric as the art of pick-up winding.
For the record,I run a substantial level of assets for one of the major Wall Street firms.So,I might know a little something about bubbles bursting.
I don't think Jim,or any of the other custom p/u winders have anything to worry about in that regard.

[Shemp]

Originally posted by leofenderbender
A rise in price immediately removes value from a product - especially for a product that is not scarce and is delivered as quickly as this one is. It results in selling fewer units and creates a secondary benefit to the resale market.

No offense, but I will benefit from the set that I will Ebay once I get tired of them. The pickups are very good but I will likely look elsewhere when I look to replace them and will try something else.

I consider my part of this discussion at an end, for the simple reason that most here have overreacted to my comments. I was not placing myself into any category, I was not lambasting anybody personally, I was not deriding someone's business - I was stating what I think - with the exception of jeffhef, the rest that can't handle the opinions of others, then participation in a forum is likely the wrong place for them.

It is difficult to discuss issues with people who choose the one side of an argument they will acknowledge and support, and ignore or slam each and every opinion divergent to that one. As I see it, every opinion that is different than those of the moderator has been squashed in this thread - threads with comments offering differing opinions were even edited out by them when the pressure of the moderator and his supporters came to bear.

I, too, work for myself - I have done it for decades - people pay me a lot of money to tell them why they aren't making a lot of money. Safe to say my point was missed altogether and never will be understood because it (likely) will never be acknowledged.

Looks to me like there are a number of people in this thread with a hidden agenda...

OUT

Well, I'm the CEO of a $125,000,000 company with earnings well in excess of its peers and I disagree with your opening statement. Prices rise due to any number of events. Currency values, labor costs, raw material increases. To say that a rise in price removes value from a product is ludicrous.

If you stated that a rise in price unaccompanied by any mitigating factor removes value from a product then I might agree with you.

Undercharging for a product removes value to the builder and adds value to the end user. Increasing prices to keep pace with inflation/costs simply maintains value on both ends of the transaction.

[Dave Orban]

ANYbody who thinks that these small builders/winders, etc. are getting rich from their labors must be a complete and total moron.

Try running your own business for a while, and THEN talk to me about it.

[daddyo]

You'd almost think small pickup winders had to eat or something. Don't churches hand out hampers anymore? ;)

[Scott Peterson]

Originally posted by leofenderbender
A rise in price immediately removes value from a product - especially for a product that is not scarce and is delivered as quickly as this one is. It results in selling fewer units and creates a secondary benefit to the resale market.

No offense, but I will benefit from the set that I will Ebay once I get tired of them. The pickups are very good but I will likely look elsewhere when I look to replace them and will try something else.

I consider my part of this discussion at an end, for the simple reason that most here have overreacted to my comments. I was not placing myself into any category, I was not lambasting anybody personally, I was not deriding someone's business - I was stating what I think - with the exception of jeffhef, the rest that can't handle the opinions of others, then participation in a forum is likely the wrong place for them.

It is difficult to discuss issues with people who choose the one side of an argument they will acknowledge and support, and ignore or slam each and every opinion divergent to that one. As I see it, every opinion that is different than those of the moderator has been squashed in this thread - threads with comments offering differing opinions were even edited out by them when the pressure of the moderator and his supporters came to bear.

I, too, work for myself - I have done it for decades - people pay me a lot of money to tell them why they aren't making a lot of money. Safe to say my point was missed altogether and never will be understood because it (likely) will never be acknowledged.

Looks to me like there are a number of people in this thread with a hidden agenda...

OUT

No hidden agenda here, just someone who disagrees with you on most every level.

Honest. Your statements reflect a very subjective balance that don't translate into what I would consider the very real conditions of any small business or the market at hand for this specific product.

How you "remove value" is far beyond me. That is stupid to say unless you have done some focus groups or survey's.

And I don't mean just connected to WCR or Jim; I am talking in general and it applies to ANY product or service.

How can you guage pubic perception of the value they received on your own personal view? Consider this simple thought, "Due Diligence". You have done nothing to back up your statements here, you are just spouting.

And I am calling you out on it. Tis all.

Seemed silly to start with, seems even sillier now. You state you will benefit from owning them (even admitting liking them) and your whole arguement is on how you see value is removed from the equation? Ummm, that doesn't add up.... at all. Your own words my friend. If you enjoy them, you have added value to your life. If you will benefit financially once you sell them, then indeed that basically *defines* value. What other products can you buy, use, enjoy and sell later for a profit? Hmmm. Seems to me, well, draw your own conclusions.

I do consulting too, so don't waive that banner and think it adds credibility. You still have not backed up any of your opinons with any fact or objective reasoning. Sorry man, it is what it is.

[dbeeman]

As if we needed one more comment on this.....

I ordered some pups from Jim and he did a great job getting them out to the guys building a guitar for me -in just days.
I hope to actually hear them on the guitar soon ;-)

No one is forcing any of us to buy his pups. Jim does not have a monopoly. The free market says if his prices go too high someone else will start making as good a product for less. I think they are a good value or would not have purchased them. If for some reason Jim's cost to make a pickup went to $1000 and we all thought they were worth $50 , he would go out of business. What it went the other way and he could magically make them for $50 per set? If we all thought they were worth $1000 should he sell them for $100?

How about if I bought the new WattWanker2000 amp for full retail at $5000, then if fell out of favor and resale is $1000. Anyone here care to give me 4500 for it since I paid $5000 just 3 months ago? I purchased a BF Vibroverb for $100 back in the day. If I still owned you can bet I would not sell it for $100.

SO:

* It really does not matter how much it costs Jim to make a pup.* How much is it worth?

Having said all that, I do observe "upmarketing" in amps, guitars etc. by some (not Jim IMHO) $300 guitars cables?

When I was playing around with hi-end stereo there was at least one manufacturer that doubled the price of his speaker cables and proceeded to sell more! -because they were now "hi-end"





* I do personally care that Jim is able to make a living, I was speaking in"pure"market terms *

[Guy from Idaho]

Originally posted by leofenderbender
A rise in price immediately removes value from a product - especially for a product that is not scarce and is delivered as quickly as this one is. It results in selling fewer units and creates a secondary benefit to the resale market.
...No offense, but I will benefit from the set that I will Ebay once I get tired of them. The pickups are very good but I will likely look elsewhere when I look to replace them and will try something else.

I guess it's because I'm from Idaho or something, but this makes sense to me. Give mr. fenderbender a break, what's the big deal? Some folks love WCR pups and think the price is peachy, others don't, tastes have a right to differ. The ones I've had were nice but not necessarily keepers for me, but that's just my personal opinion coming from my years of experience as assistant-sub-CEO of a small rural household :)

[jeffhef]

Originally posted by Guy from Idaho
from my years of experience as assistant-sub-CEO of a small rural household :)

What kills me here is you're still under the illusion you're second in command. If you have daughters that boat don't float. I'm 4th in line in my house. I think. :confused:

jeffhef

[Guy from Idaho]

Originally posted by jeffhef
What kills me here is you're still under the illusion you're second in command. If you have daughters that boat don't float. I'm 4th in line in my house. I think. :confused:

jeffhef

well, I can still kick the cat (when nobody's looking anyway) :p

[G'OlPeachPhan]

No hidden agenda here either. As it so happens, I too run a small business -- a two man show. As it also happens, my small business builds and implements "value models" for major corporations to help them sell their products based upon value they provide to their customers. I've worked directly with many CFO; at my client companies, and I guarantee you not a single one would agree with your concepts of value.

Pricing certainly impacts value from the standpoint that the initial investment must be recouped, and if the price is higher, payback period will be longer. Of course, payback period is not really all that good of a measurement for capital investments, so one should really examine NPV, EVA, and IRR as well if you want to take a thorough look at the VALUE these pickups provide.

Quality pickups may very well be the result of incremental gains in revenue for a gigging musician. Quality pickups may yield a more pleasing tone for the audience to hear, and may also lead to a greater level of inspiration for the artist, leading to more, better paying gigs. So in that case, you'd subtract the base case gigging scenario prior to investing in good pickups from the new and improved pickups gigging scenario, less the cost of the pickups, and multiply times your bands operating margin to reduce to EBIT (to create a bottom line dollar equivalent).

Next, it's helpful to look at all the other potential costs that may be eliminated by purchasing a quality set of pickups. It may entirely end your search for tone, which would mean no more buying and selling (at a loss) of stompboxes, amps, axes, etc.

To illustrate, let's look at Scumbag's situation, particularly his monthly cost of indecision... each month he spends waiting to purchase Jim's pickups is another month when he could and potentially will invest in another set of pickups that will ultimately find their way to the storage bin after he buys a set of WCR's... So the OPPORTUNITY cost in his case would be HUGE. It was indeed a smart investment for Scumbag to purchase WCR pickups.

So if you really TRULY want to measure the value of a capital investment, there are a few more angles you should really examine to be sure you're seeing the whole picture.

You know, when it all comes down to it, this is all just about a small business man who makes a kick ass product that many of us here dig. When his costs go up, that translates to an increase in price for us so that he can afford to stay in business.

Or we could all just shut up and play, which would be very welcome at this point, as it's the end of a LONG holiday weekend of watching nieces, yardwork, and fishing... Anyone second that idea? :dude

[Scott Peterson]

Originally posted by G'OlPeachPhan
Anyone second that idea? :dude

WORD.

[WCR]

So, do you think should I raise prices again?:p :p :p

[81Custom]

Originally posted by WCR
So, do you think should I raise prices again?:p :p :p

Hey Jim...your HERCs are the shitz............ :D

see ya in Greensboro this fall....:dude

[WCR]

Right on Bro! Hope to see ya there! I had a GREAT time last Oct., and heard it will just be even better this time around. :dude

[paintguy]

I was going to review my Darkburst in the near future, but after this thread I think I'll just chill a while. What a discussion!!!!!
My feelings are if it's worth it to a specific consumer, than just let it be.

A friend and master luthier of mine, was floored at the Wcr prices, stating that pickups are $5.00 worth of materials. (he does wind some of his own).

That said, I am a firm believer in paying for R&D and someones' knowledge. I could care a less if it does cost $5.00 in raw materials,(sounds a little low)and takes 1 minute to make, as long as I'm happy with it

I can tell you, although I don't think the Darkburst is for me, it is one heck of a pickup. It took me a couple weeks to get used to it, and man it is what everyone on TGP says. A little tame for me, but has a focus and clarity I never have experienced in a pickup before.

I'll leave it at that for now, the full review will come later.
Larry
P.S. I look foward to trying more in the future!!!!!

[Mr.Hanky]

Count me in as another WCR fan.
I bought a pair of DB's used love them, wanted a bit more beef and less highs for the bridge in my R7.
I contacted Jim, and soon after got a goodwood for the bridge.

The DB neck and goodwood bridge (for me) is the sheet.

Jim is great to deal with, and prompt!

He also has a twisted sense of humor and a knack for profanity that is yet to be explored herein.

Steve..

[WCR]

Originally posted by paintguy
I was going to review my Darkburst in the near future, but after this thread I think I'll just chill a while. What a discussion!!!!!
My feelings are if it's worth it to a specific consumer, than just let it be.

A friend and master luthier of mine, was floored at the Wcr prices, stating that pickups are $5.00 worth of materials. (he does wind some of his own).

That said, I am a firm believer in paying for R&D and someones' knowledge. I could care a less if it does cost $5.00 in raw materials,(sounds a little low)and takes 1 minute to make, as long as I'm happy with it

I can tell you, although I don't think the Darkburst is for me, it is one heck of a pickup. It took me a couple weeks to get used to it, and man it is what everyone on TGP says. A little tame for me, but has a focus and clarity I never have experienced in a pickup before.

I'll leave it at that for now, the full review will come later.
Larry
P.S. I look foward to trying more in the future!!!!!


Hey Paintguy ! How the hell are ya! Thanx for the kind comments and support, much appreciated !
Man,I WISH they were that cheap. :p Not even close.I imagine you could do it if you found the worst quality parts you can find. Hell, the chassis ALONE is that much. Plus wire (DEFINTELY not cheap stuff) bobbins ( top quality), slugs, screws,custom cut mags,pigtails, tape, etc.

(Also, I forgot to add in my first post in this thread, that PayPal dings me on an average 5-10 bucks per order. Little stuff, al of it. But it piles up fast.....this is the "edit" )

And I'm buying in bulk. It's getting so bad, I am getting ready to start making some of my own stuff. Luckily, I have a machinist background, and know a bit about molds and stamps. :cool:

[Den]

Originally posted by leofenderbender
A rise in price immediately removes value from a product - especially for a product that is not scarce and is delivered as quickly as this one is. It results in selling fewer units and creates a secondary benefit to the resale market.

No offense, but I will benefit from the set that I will Ebay once I get tired of them. The pickups are very good but I will likely look elsewhere when I look to replace them and will try something else.

I consider my part of this discussion at an end, for the simple reason that most here have overreacted to my comments. I was not placing myself into any category, I was not lambasting anybody personally, I was not deriding someone's business - I was stating what I think - with the exception of jeffhef, the rest that can't handle the opinions of others, then participation in a forum is likely the wrong place for them.

It is difficult to discuss issues with people who choose the one side of an argument they will acknowledge and support, and ignore or slam each and every opinion divergent to that one. As I see it, every opinion that is different than those of the moderator has been squashed in this thread - threads with comments offering differing opinions were even edited out by them when the pressure of the moderator and his supporters came to bear.

I, too, work for myself - I have done it for decades - people pay me a lot of money to tell them why they aren't making a lot of money. Safe to say my point was missed altogether and never will be understood because it (likely) will never be acknowledged.

Looks to me like there are a number of people in this thread with a hidden agenda...

OUT After following this thread for days, I've not participated until now because others have responded to your posts with opinions very similar to my own. I've only decided to post based on the assumption that you sincerely did not intend to offend anyone, and seem confused as to why others have supposedly "overreacted." I'm also assuming that your goal is not to continue to argue only "one side of an argument" you "acknowledge and support, and ignore or slam each and every opinion divergent to that one." Based on those assumptions, I offer the following:

Your initial post may have expressed what you were "thinking", but was clearly found by many here to be insulting to them. Rather than any well-written, lucid explanation of your opinion, you offer an insulting "give me a break" ... twice just to emphasize the brilliance of the statement. You complain that others are slamming your opinions, yet you deride all previous posts as nothing more than a "lovefest", in effect, showing zero respect for their opinions. Stating what you "think" needs to be done with common respect for what others think.

Further, if you really had no intention of "deriding someone's business", then why describe a quality handmade product that's so highly respected here as simply "wire and magnets"? If that makes any sense, then almost all of our discussions on this forum are nothing more than "lovefests" and "hatefests" and "I'm-not-sure-fests" about magnets and wire and tolex and wood and strings, etc. You've participated in many of these discussions yourself on other gear as if they were meaningful ... why do you suddenly need "a break" from this one? Can you see how that might be interpreted by others as indicating that you may have a hidden agenda?

If you don't like the topic of a particular thread, why not just ignore it and thereby avoid whatever it is that annoyed you about this thread?

FWIW (probably not much), I own my own business delivering consulting as well as sales and marketing training for most of the world's largest real estate organizations. I've trained more than 25,000 real estate professionals and have also consulted with major builders and brands such as RE/MAX, GMAC, Coldwell Banker, Century 21 and many more. A great part of what I do is teach fundamentals of pricing and value, as well communication skills to help others understand your message as you carefully work to understand theirs. In essence, they pay me a lot of money to show them how to make a lot of money.

Others here have done a fine job, IMHO, discussing the value issues relative to Jim's pups. In a nutshell, however, regardless of how you see it, "value" is simply what others "percieve it to be." You point to the posts in this thread as evidence that the perception of value of Jim's pickups has increased. You're right ... and in fact if perceptions of value have increased, the value of this product truly has.

You indicate that price increases cause people to think they're getting more value than they really are ... and this can be true in various categories of retailing, but informed consumers, as represented by this group, are not easily mislead. But, as difficult as it is for some to understand, if consumers place a higher value on a product or service for any reason, whether it be brand name, price, performance, packaging, service, etc., that product does have a higher value. These are not just my opinions, but facts based on mountains of research and empirical data.

You state that you'll benefit when you decide to Ebay your Wagner pickups ... so there you go ... higher resale value is another form of increased value.

One last question ... if you truly feel that it's "Safe to say my point was missed altogether" ... whose fault would that be? After being a participating member of this forum for some time now, do you think so little of the other posters on this thread that they are just refusing to understand you? Or is possible that you either didn't state your opinion clearly enough ... or that maybe, just this once, you're not 100% correct in your perspective on this?

Again, I've only written this based on the assumption that you did not intend to offend anyone here. I understand from your post that you also agree that this forum is about all of us sharing our opinions, whether in agreement or disagreement, with respect for each other ... so that's exactly what I've done.

I hope I didn't miss your points ... if so, it's not because I haven't made the effort to understand. Also, for the record, no hidden agenda here. Peace, Den

[HERC]

Jim makes a bulletproof pickup and he's an incredible human being that I call my brother and my friend...... ;) :cool:

With that being said, Jim and those who know me are quite aware of how meticulous, methodical and disciplined I am about My Life, My physique and My Genre of Music.."Metal"

I consider it an honor that Jim took the time to come to my house and consult with me on exactly how and what I though a Metal Style Humbucker should sound and react like....
He then worked his magic and constructed the Hercs....... http://www.theaxehouse.com/forum/images/smilies/devilrock.gif
I know for a fact that they're not an easy pickup to wind because of the secret ingredient that many people don't know about but we'll leave that to the player to discover....... ;) ;)

Jim, you're a piece of Iron, brother.... Born from the Days of Yore when Shit was built ****ing tough, the way it was meant to be.....!!

[G'OlPeachPhan]

Well said Herc, and good to see you here on these shores!

335--->Ghia from the "other" forum.

[muddy]

HERC!! when did you slip in here?! if no one else has yet, then let me be the first to say WELCOME ABOARD, BROTHO'MAN!!!


ML :dude

[Den]

Re-reading some of these posts reminds me of a story I tell in some of my consulting and training work related to pricing and value:

A landlord gets woken in the middle of a cold winter night with one call after another from tenants complaining that the heating system has broken down again. Half asleep, he stumbles down to the basement and struggles for several hours to get the boiler furnace to come back to life ... with no success.

Finally giving in to the tenants continuing complaints, the landlord calls in "Bob the Boiler Man." Bob walks in with a serious look, examines the furnace for a few minutes and walks back to his toolbox. Returning with a small hammer, he carefully lines up his aim, cocks back his arm and gives the boiler one strong tap.

The landlord watches with amazement and relief as the boiler rumbles to life. After putting his hammer away, Bob pulls out pad and writes out a bill for the landlord: $201 for boiler repair.

After examining the bill, the landlord looks back at Bob exasperated, "$201??? How can charge $201 for just tapping the boiler once with a hammer? That's outrageous!

"You don't understand," explained Bob, calmly, "I only charged you $1 for hitting the boiler with the hammer ... the other $200 is for knowing where to hit."

***********

Anyone who knows Jim Wagner or has heard about his work wouldn't question whether he knows "where to hit" ... and it's completely his prerogative to determine how much he charges for that knowledge. As consumers, we can choose to pay his prices or not. So what's the big deal?

Keep up the great work Jim! :D

[SteveK]

Originally posted by Den
Re-reading some of these posts reminds me of a story I tell in some of my consulting and training work related to pricing and value:

A landlord gets woken in the middle of a cold winter night with one call after another from tenants complaining that the heating system has broken down again. Half asleep, he stumbles down to the basement and struggles for several hours to get the boiler furnace to come back to life ... with no success.

Finally giving in to the tenants continuing complaints, the landlord calls in "Bob the Boiler Man." Bob walks in with a serious look, examines the furnace for a few minutes and walks back to his toolbox. Returning with a small hammer, he carefully lines up his aim, cocks back his arm and gives the boiler one strong tap.

The landlord watches with amazement and relief as the boiler rumbles to life. After putting his hammer away, Bob pulls out pad and writes out a bill for the landlord: $201 for boiler repair.

After examining the bill, the landlord looks back at Bob exasperated, "$201??? How can charge $201 for just tapping the boiler once with a hammer? That's outrageous!

"You don't understand," explained Bob, calmly, "I only charged you $1 for hitting the boiler with the hammer ... the other $200 is for knowing where to hit."

***********

Anyone who knows Jim Wagner or has heard about his work wouldn't question whether he knows "where to hit" ... and it's completely his prerogative to determine how much he charges for that knowledge. As consumers, we can choose to pay his prices or not. So what's the big deal?

Keep up the great work Jim! :D

Great adage! And agreed ...keep up the great work Jim!!!!

[WCR]

Ya know, I sit here and occasionally read new posts on this thread, and am just blown away by ya'll. I asked Carol (my Honey, Significant Other, Boss, AxeWoman #1, etc.) tonite, just what can I possibly say to all that ?
She said "say nothing. It's all being said for you." I am forced to agree.
I can't think of anything else to say, but THANX ! I am just dumb-founded and speechless.....
Oh, but I better say : Hey Brutha HERC ! ALWAYS glad to see ya!
Man, talk about a man of iron, ya'll should SEE this guy !
:dude :dude :dude

[81Custom]

..I don't know squat about how the Pups work..how they're wound,etc... don't really care about the tech parts...but I DO know that NO pickup is gonna make you Duane Allman or Jimmy Page... that ands a buck will getcha a cup of joe.............. ;)

Peace, Bros :cool:

[CS'56]

I read the first page of this thread. After reading it, I thought maybe they shot up to $300 a set. I checked the website and wow they went up a whole $10.

[dm4501]

I'm joining this post a bit late, but why not? I'm a builder of custom houses. Each project I build is from start to finish and we're involved from the very first day until the last. Granted you can't build a house all by yourself, however, my partner ( of 30+ years) or myself are onsite nearly 100% of the time. We do the foundation, all of the carpentry and many other tasks. Our crew consists of 1 or 2 other workers, who we have trained. Our market appeal is the constant supervision and hands on execution of all phases of construction by ourselves and our hand picked subcontractors. Could we make more money by increasing our market share, growing our company, etc., probably. Would the product be the same, I doubt it.
That being said, Mr Wagner keep doing what you do, your product is a direct result of your own hands, ears, brain and soul. Charge what you need to continue.
By the way, your Darkbursts made an expensive guitar I own come to life. Mucho Gracias!
Dennis

[Slydemann]

I have to chime in, I haven't been around the forum in quite a while but I want to say that for the past year and a half I've been using WCR pickups, and they are really great and worth every penny.

I have a Les Paul copy I use for open tuning slide with a Darkburst in the bridge and a Fillmore in the neck position. It sounds incredible. My work horse, a 93 Classic Plus has a set of Cossroads and they are also truly amazing and VERY PAF like.
I've played them up against a couple of real PAF LP's and they sounded at least as good if not better than the old ones. When they are cranked the harmonics ring out in all sorts of colors.

They turned an ordinary sounding guitar into a very special instrument that I greatly value.

And Jim is tops, I can't believe how fast I got my pickups from the time I ordered, especially considering that he does it all himself.

I feel like I have the closest to a real PAF I could possibly get, not just a PAF but one of the GOOD PAF's, with a lot of tone variation between very bright and dark. Tone is my #1 and these really do it! I play all the time, professionally and these pickups never let me down.

So yeah, maybe they are a little expensive but if you are looking for the real deal, this is it and it's a real bargain.

[glogulus]

I just have to post this. If you have a set of the WCR SR set strat pickups, I highly recommend getting the RS guitar upgrade kit! It takes the instrument to another level.. Totally!

Well, YMMV. If your guitar already sounds bright enough and open enough for you I wouldn't recommend it. But, if like me, you wished your tone controls went up to 11 or 12, then this kit may do wonders for you as well.

[81Custom]

Originally posted by Slydemann
I have to chime in, I haven't been around the forum in quite a while but I want to say that for the past year and a half I've been using WCR pickups, and they are really great and worth every penny.

I have a Les Paul copy I use for open tuning slide with a Darkburst in the bridge and a Fillmore in the neck position. It sounds incredible. My work horse, a 93 Classic Plus has a set of Cossroads and they are also truly amazing and VERY PAF like.
I've played them up against a couple of real PAF LP's and they sounded at least as good if not better than the old ones. When they are cranked the harmonics ring out in all sorts of colors.

They turned an ordinary sounding guitar into a very special instrument that I greatly value.

And Jim is tops, I can't believe how fast I got my pickups from the time I ordered, especially considering that he does it all himself.

I feel like I have the closest to a real PAF I could possibly get, not just a PAF but one of the GOOD PAF's, with a lot of tone variation between very bright and dark. Tone is my #1 and these really do it! I play all the time, professionally and these pickups never let me down.

So yeah, maybe they are a little expensive but if you are looking for the real deal, this is it and it's a real bargain.

Man....how much is Wags payin' you to push his wares ?
:D :D :D

[Mr.Hanky]

I'm having Jim Wagners love child.

:(

[Den]

Originally posted by Mr.Hanky
I'm having Jim Wagners love child.

:( Now that's PRICELESS!

[Slydemann]

Originally posted by 81Custom
Man....how much is Wags payin' you to push his wares ?
:D :D :D


Not a cent, wish I could post a soundbyte or two but I don't have a way to host it.....

[CharlieS]

Dave, shoot me over a clip or two with the Crossroads and I'll see about hosting it for you.


81Custom may have been joking, but unwittingly brings up a good point.....Jim W. would do well to add you as an artist endorser.

[sinasl1]

Jim sent me a Darkburst bridge model for my LP Custom.. he rushed it to me, no extra charge, so I could pop it in before leaving on tour a couple weeks ago.... it sounds killer (dropped an RS kit in there as well) and his customer service was top notch.

I personally don't care what someone wants to charge for something, if they make a great product it's more than just the sum of the parts, you gotta factor in R+D and the builder's taste/brains into the mix.... if those factors jive with your idea of great tone, then that's priceless, dontcha think?

Think about this... add up the cost of the materials involved in creating the Mona Lisa, see what I mean? An extreme example, but it applies I think...

[Den]

Originally posted by sinasl1
... Think about this... add up the cost of the materials involved in creating the Mona Lisa, see what I mean? An extreme example, but it applies I think... EXACTLY! ... and call me uncultered or unsophisticated, but I get a lot more pleasure from great guitar tone than I ever have from looking at an expensive painting.

[81Custom]

Originally posted by CharlieS
Dave, shoot me over a clip or two with the Crossroads and I'll see about hosting it for you.


81Custom may have been joking, but unwittingly brings up a good point.....Jim W. would do well to add you as an artist endorser.

I was..........;)

[WCR]

Originally posted by CharlieS
Dave, shoot me over a clip or two with the Crossroads and I'll see about hosting it for you.

I'll have you guys know that CharlieS sent me my first Fillmores clip ever. It is still on my site to this day. The "Stormy" clip. What an outrageous tone and guitmanship if I ever heard it.
That was the clip that really got things going for me in the "olden" days.
One of the most gracious and excellent gentleman you could EVER hope to meet, and player extraordinare.
:dude :dude :dude

[jonleecourage]

After all this, I hope any doubter can rest assured the pickups are worth every nickel and that Jim is The Man.

(I'm one of the "I need screws" guys, and yes, he did send them priority at no charge).

Cracks me up to even call these that expensive. You guys are willing to drop $4-6k on a guitar and you call one of the most important parts of the tone chain expensive at $300?? C'mon...

[imschur]

I think the price increase was my fault. We exchanged 12 emails from start to finish for my 3 humbucker les paul. Jim had to wind with one hand while answering my emails with the other. He even put a schematic into words for me (or would that be letters). Im saving that baby it may be valuable someday when jim makes it big. All that and I had the pickups in 3 days delivered to CT. Also Jim the instigator (his words) did not charge for the wit at the end of the messages. I would have prefered pofanity though had I known it was available. Great product at a fair price IMHO. I wish I knew what Jim and Mr Hanky look like so I can envision this love child.
drew

[CharlieS]

Thanks, Jim. But you're the one who made these happen.

I guess it does sound like we're a bunch of shills..:D

[CharlieS]

Here are a couple of clips courtesy of TGPer Slydemann (Dave Melton)....The first one is of the Crossroads in an LP classic plus with both pups in use:

Crossroads (http://home.comcast.net/~charles.schack/things_I_used_to_do.mp3)


The second is a slide clip with a Darkburst bridge pickup. This used to be my pickup, but I prefer the Goodwood bridge. It still sounds great, though:

Darkburst (http://home.comcast.net/~charles.schack/Statesboro2.mp3)

Thanks Dave!

[theelectic]

Originally posted by CharlieS
Thanks, Jim. But you're the one who made these happen.

I guess it does sound like we're a bunch of shills..:D

If I sound like a shill, so be it! I emailed Jim a couple of times about some of his pickups that *I didn't even buy from him*, and got a quick and accurate response each time.

Oh yeah, the pickups sound killer too :)

[Slydemann]

Originally posted by CharlieS
Here are a couple of clips courtesy of TGPer Slydemann (Dave Melton)....The first one is of the Crossroads in an LP classic plus with both pups in use:

Crossroads (http://home.comcast.net/~charles.schack/things_I_used_to_do.mp3)


The second is a slide clip with a Darkburst bridge pickup. This used to be my pickup, but I prefer the Goodwood bridge. It still sounds great, though:

Darkburst (http://home.comcast.net/~charles.schack/Statesboro2.mp3)

Thanks Dave!

Thanks Charlie for posting those!

Dave

[WCR]

GRAVEY DAVEY !
Good to see ya here Bro ! Been awhile......:D :dude :dude

[SouthernShred]

Well Jim, I sent a guy your way a day or so ago... I think he ordered Fillmores with nickel covers for his new LP Classic. The word is spreading...

[Slydemann]

Originally posted by WCR
GRAVEY DAVEY !
Good to see ya here Bro ! Been awhile......:D :dude :dude

Hey Jim! Yes, been since January at the
Boogaloo and the NAMM show.

[WCR]

Well hold on to yer shorts, 'cuz we're gonna do it again!
:dude :D

[rockinlespaul]

There was a price increase?


;)

Hi Jim!:D


:dude

[jlagrassa]

Anyone try out the WCR Black Magic pups, I use a McCarty and would be real interested in them since there are geared towards PRS.

Jim can you give any more Info on these there is not a whole lot of Info on the RS Guitar works site!

[WCR]

OH....., you mean those * RS* BLACK MAGICS? * :D lol
Hmmm. Well, no clips yet that I know of. The neck in like a slightly overwound Crossroads neck, but also slightly out of balance.
The bridge is actually a Shredder neck. It reads out about 9.4, very much like a Goodwood bridge, but are wound differently. Also out of balance, they are a lot like the Shredder bridge as far as tapping options. More choices there when wiring. Both coils sound different from each other. Good mix in the full humbucking mode. I think Roy could explain them better than I could. I believe he plays that particular set a lot lately.
Damn, now *I* need a PRS........:p

HI FW!!:dude :dude :D

And THANX SS !!! If you only knew......:p

[jlagrassa]

Thanks for that info Jim I will have to check into these more! Hopefully there will be some clips soon!

[AnthonySteele]

I was reading something below & had to say something.........................
I think you get exactly what you pay for wit WCR.....QUALITY. Most of us can probably afford anything, we CHOOSE WCR. #1 the tone is dead on. #2 is Jim customer service. He stands behind anything that he sells, PERIOD. Ever since the first day i met him I got the vibe of a honest guy. In this business that alone is priceless. I've sent friends to him & he has taken care of them, even sending samples to some. Never 1 problem in over 2 years. I have WCR's in all 8 guitars. Springs & screws are petty shit. If your focused on that your not hearin the pups. Not trying to down anyone but fact is fact. I choose to do clips for Jim because as good as these pups sound it needed to be out there for all to hear it. i dont do stuff like that for anyone, meaning spending my money & time, unless i believe in the product & more important the person. I had an endorsement with another co and still chose to buy WCR's.
Bottom line is you get what you pay for, both in product & in Jim & if your worrying about price you aint hearin the TONE...... Im glad to say hes a friend and would recommend his stuff to anyone with not even a 2nd thought.
Just my 2¢

[hoochiecoochie]

I remeber when Jim first started selling his PUPs here and on the Les Pual forum and there was so much commentary about exactly what he was trying to do for us and the concept behind his PUPs. It is great to see so many fellow forumites come out for him. Great job Jim. Eventually I'll break down and get a set---regardless of price.

[SouthernShred]

Originally posted by WCR

And THANX SS !!! If you only knew......:p

No problem dude. I've owned a lot of pickups and I've heard yours in person recently and keep the soundclips saved on my hard drive. I don't have the pennies together to buy my own set yet, but I send all the local guys looking for great humbuckers and a lot of non-forum internet friends to you. I believe in your work ethic and your product and just wanted to say thanks.

[Kiwi]

I have a different type of compliment to make.

I don't own the pickups, barely know what they are, sure don't know this Jim Wagner fellow.

But what I'm reading in this thread is that a small builder is making a hand-made product, delivering them promptly, and keeping customers happy on a timely basis. That's what we all expect, of course, and well we should.

But it's not to be taken for granted. I've read too many stories on the boards, over the years, about small manufacturers and retailers who start a little business to sell gear, who can't even do that. Pickup makers, amp kitbuilders, stompbox sellers who take customers' money and - with the best intentions in the world - can't deliver the goods on a timely basis.

They take the orders and the money, and run into trouble. Growth consumes cash and capital. How many of these stories have we seen played out on this board and others? The guy gets way behind in production and delivery, starts overpromising, can't deliver, and loses all credibility. They are just bad businessmen.

This Jim guy sounds like he's making an excellent product and delivering it fast, keeping up with orders, controlling his costs, watching his margins, and ensuring his customers are happy. As we've seen, that's harder than it may appear at first.

So congrats to a small-business success story, Jim, and I wish you continued success. It ain't easy, particularly with a whiny bunch of customers like us!!

Kiwi

[cvansickle]

I just placed an order with Jim last night, so I'm waiting eagerly for my turn to be dazzled!

[G'OlPeachPhan]

No doubt Jim works his ass off to meet promises, and always comes through. Refreshing to buy from a true businessman and gentleman in and industry (music) where those qualities are held up as virtues. Just proves that you can really ROCK, and still be responsible. Not to mention Jim always seems to have time to talk when you call him.

Thank you Jim. Do you eat or sleep? Last time I talked to you I think you said you were just getting over Bronchitis, and you were winding and shiping in the midst of it all. Yeah, I guess if you're feeling lousy anyways, you might as well be working those days and saving the "sick days" for when you're feeling good so you can enjoy them... Although when you run your own business there's really no such thing as a sick day or a vacation day; it's money out the window.

[Tonebender]

Jim,

I see that the SR's aren't listed on your site. Have you stopped making them?

[WCR]

Originally posted by G'OlPeachPhan
No doubt Jim works his ass off to meet promises, and always comes through. Refreshing to buy from a true businessman and gentleman in and industry (music) where those qualities are held up as virtues. Just proves that you can really ROCK, and still be responsible. Not to mention Jim always seems to have time to talk when you call him.

Thank you Jim. Do you eat or sleep? Last time I talked to you I think you said you were just getting over Bronchitis, and you were winding and shiping in the midst of it all. Yeah, I guess if you're feeling lousy anyways, you might as well be working those days and saving the "sick days" for when you're feeling good so you can enjoy them... Although when you run your own business there's really no such thing as a sick day or a vacation day; it's money out the window.

Hey Peach! How are ya! Yeah, I had some NASTY kinda lung-virus thing for more than 2 months. Never had anything like it in my life, and wouldn't wish it on anyone. Very dry, wracking cough. Feelin' WAY better this last week or two, and thank you and the others for the concern. Next time a kid comes home and coughs, I'm movin' out 'til they're ALL done with it !!:p
I don't sleep much. I find it to be a very boring occupation (sleep). Actually, when the phone is un-plugged, and everyone has gone to bed , I get most of my serious winding done. I answer an occasional e-mail then, but it's when I'm taking a short break or something.
Very true on the "working sick" thing. I fell just as crappy in bed, and actuallly feel better if I'm doing something. So I might as well get paid to be sick......hahahaha

OK, SRs. I took them off the site last nite. I have several reasons for it.
1st, some aspects of it I just do not have the time to do it myself, and haven't yet found someone I care to farm the work out to. Just stuff like building the bobbin skeletons, taping, maybe pigtails.
All of the really important stuff like winding and potting I will probably ALWAYS do myself. Handwinding is just like a fingerprint: everyone does it different, and can't be duplicated by someone else. Believe me I've tried to show some people close to me how to do it, but no cigar. That's OK though, I like doing it, and am actually relaxed when doing it. It's damn near what I would call a form of meditation. Could be worse. I could be knitting...........lol
2nd, I have NOT been pleased with the parts I have been getting supplied with lately. I have been having to do just way too much trim work on the flatware. Time is money. I am working on that issue, as well as a couple of others that will blow some minds.....
3rd, I am waiting on one of the magnets I use to come in, and plus I will be out for a week starting Tues. I will have pickups AND a laptop with me, so most orders will still be shipped right away while I am on the road, FROM the road. But I won't have mags for the SRs soon enough, so I took them down to avoid a backlog. I never want to be like that if I can help it.
4th. In about 45-50 days, I am going to have a magnetic suprise for everyone. This will include the SRs, but they will be a little further out than the initial thing I plan to offer.
Ya'll are gonna love it ( I hope), but I ain't sayin' no more about it.
And thanx KIWI and hoochiecoochie. Yeah, those were some amazing times. I remember I made some outrageous claims about what I had, and got jumped all over on in trhe LPF. But a couple of the loudest finally got to try them, and turned out to be very good friends who spread the word. Bottom line is I'm indebted to all youse guys. I couldn't be here if not for you.
:D :cool: :dude

[AnthonySteele]

Originally posted by WCR
Hey Peach! How are ya! Yeah, I had some NASTY kinda lung-virus thing for more than 2 months. Never had anything like it in my life, and wouldn't wish it on anyone. Very dry, wracking cough. Feelin' WAY better this last week or two, and thank you and the others for the concern. Next time a kid comes home and coughs, I'm movin' out 'til they're ALL done with it !!:p
I don't sleep much. I find it to be a very boring occupation (sleep). Actually, when the phone is un-plugged, and everyone has gone to bed , I get most of my serious winding done. I answer an occasional e-mail then, but it's when I'm taking a short break or something.
Very true on the "working sick" thing. I fell just as crappy in bed, and actuallly feel better if I'm doing something. So I might as well get paid to be sick......hahahaha

OK, SRs. I took them off the site last nite. I have several reasons for it.
1st, some aspects of it I just do not have the time to do it myself, and haven't yet found someone I care to farm the work out to. Just stuff like building the bobbin skeletons, taping, maybe pigtails.
All of the really important stuff like winding and potting I will probably ALWAYS do myself. Handwinding is just like a fingerprint: everyone does it different, and can't be duplicated by someone else. Believe me I've tried to show some people close to me how to do it, but no cigar. That's OK though, I like doing it, and am actually relaxed when doing it. It's damn near what I would call a form of meditation. Could be worse. I could be knitting...........lol
2nd, I have NOT been pleased with the parts I have been getting supplied with lately. I have been having to do just way too much trim work on the flatware. Time is money. I am working on that issue, as well as a couple of others that will blow some minds.....
3rd, I am waiting on one of the magnets I use to come in, and plus I will be out for a week starting Tues. I will have pickups AND a laptop with me, so most orders will still be shipped right away while I am on the road, FROM the road. But I won't have mags for the SRs soon enough, so I took them down to avoid a backlog. I never want to be like that if I can help it.
4th. In about 45-50 days, I am going to have a magnetic suprise for everyone. This will include the SRs, but they will be a little further out than the initial thing I plan to offer.
Ya'll are gonna love it ( I hope), but I ain't sayin' no more about it.
And thanx KIWI and hoochiecoochie. Yeah, those were some amazing times. I remember I made some outrageous claims about what I had, and got jumped all over on in trhe LPF. But a couple of the loudest finally got to try them, and turned out to be very good friends who spread the word. Bottom line is I'm indebted to all youse guys. I couldn't be here if not for you.
:D :cool: :dude
Sleep is overrated......................................... ..:eek: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

[eddyrox]

Originally posted by fuzzyguitars
When last checked on the site, their prices went up on the pickups that were originally 250.

They sound great, but man, they are really pricey!


(THIS POSTING HAS BEEN EDITED!!!!)

dude, what's your problem?:D
get off the man's jock!:dude

[jeffhef]

Guess what? This isn't about prices rising? I don't care. They're worth what they're worth.

Just thought I'd do a hijack here...

I've subscribed to Tonequest for...well since the second year they were in existence.

i was just wondering...do they charge companies to be included in their big list of preferred suppliers? I notice you're one of them. And of course...you don't have to answer if you don't want. :)

jeffhef

[WCR]

I think (Carol takes care of all that) we pay to be in the register there, and then that just spills over into other things like preferred suppliers. Plus, they've done a review or two on me, and I think that qualifies for that list as well. I'll ask and see what the Boss says about it. Or, you could just call them as well. Real great bunch of people. David Wilson is a real great guy. I met him at NAMM before, along with Jason Lollar at the same time.
:dude :dude

[81Custom]

Originally posted by WCR
Hey Peach! How are ya! Yeah, I had some NASTY kinda lung-virus thing for more than 2 months. Never had anything like it in my life, and wouldn't wish it on anyone. Very dry, wracking cough. Feelin' WAY better this last week or two, and thank you and the others for the concern. Next time a kid comes home and coughs, I'm movin' out 'til they're ALL done with it !!:p
I don't sleep much. I find it to be a very boring occupation (sleep). Actually, when the phone is un-plugged, and everyone has gone to bed , I get most of my serious winding done. I answer an occasional e-mail then, but it's when I'm taking a short break or something.
Very true on the "working sick" thing. I fell just as crappy in bed, and actuallly feel better if I'm doing something. So I might as well get paid to be sick......hahahaha

OK, SRs. I took them off the site last nite. I have several reasons for it.
1st, some aspects of it I just do not have the time to do it myself, and haven't yet found someone I care to farm the work out to. Just stuff like building the bobbin skeletons, taping, maybe pigtails.
All of the really important stuff like winding and potting I will probably ALWAYS do myself. Handwinding is just like a fingerprint: everyone does it different, and can't be duplicated by someone else. Believe me I've tried to show some people close to me how to do it, but no cigar. That's OK though, I like doing it, and am actually relaxed when doing it. It's damn near what I would call a form of meditation. Could be worse. I could be knitting...........lol
2nd, I have NOT been pleased with the parts I have been getting supplied with lately. I have been having to do just way too much trim work on the flatware. Time is money. I am working on that issue, as well as a couple of others that will blow some minds.....
3rd, I am waiting on one of the magnets I use to come in, and plus I will be out for a week starting Tues. I will have pickups AND a laptop with me, so most orders will still be shipped right away while I am on the road, FROM the road. But I won't have mags for the SRs soon enough, so I took them down to avoid a backlog. I never want to be like that if I can help it.
4th. In about 45-50 days, I am going to have a magnetic suprise for everyone. This will include the SRs, but they will be a little further out than the initial thing I plan to offer.
Ya'll are gonna love it ( I hope), but I ain't sayin' no more about it.
And thanx KIWI and hoochiecoochie. Yeah, those were some amazing times. I remember I made some outrageous claims about what I had, and got jumped all over on in trhe LPF. But a couple of the loudest finally got to try them, and turned out to be very good friends who spread the word. Bottom line is I'm indebted to all youse guys. I couldn't be here if not for you.
:D :cool: :dude

PICKUPS?......yadda-yadda-yadda..... have ya seen the mans' T-SHIRTS? ..THEY kick ass :dude

Hey Jim.... :D

[AnthonySteele]

Originally posted by 81Custom
PICKUPS?......yadda-yadda-yadda..... have ya seen the mans' T-SHIRTS? ..THEY kick ass :dude

Hey Jim.... :D
Im with you on the tee's...................We still need to get Jim on a Harley =)

[Mr.Hanky]

Will the T-shirt make me a better player, or does it make the tone better.

(Jim, this is your cue to say "BOTH!")
;)

[WCR]

Originally posted by Mr.Hanky
Will the T-shirt make me a better player, or does it make the tone better.

(Jim, this is your cue to say "BOTH!")
;)

Ya beat me to it ! hahaha
ANTHONY !! Greensboro on Oct. 15!!! You can come down on yer bike, and let me take it for the day while YOU jam!:D :p :dude

In fact, yer ALL invited ! It's Jimmy Murray's Les Paul Jam!! There will be a lot of REALLY nice LPs there. Superburst, Bengal Whore, just a gob of them. Best part is ya can jam as well. I went last year, it was an AWESOME time! :dude

[AnthonySteele]

Originally posted by WCR
Ya beat me to it ! hahaha
ANTHONY !! Greensboro on Oct. 15!!! You can come down on yer bike, and let me take it for the day while YOU jam!:D :p :dude
I
n fact, ter ALL invited ! It's Jimmy Murray's Les Paul Jam!! There will be a lot of REALLY nice LPs there. Superburst, Bengal Whore, just a gob of them. Best part is ya can jam as well. I went last year, it was an AWESOME time! :dude
I just may go this year.....schedule permitting. I just need to let you know as soon as I got the tee shirt my licks improved. I think it made the pups sound better. As for Carol, you better take good care of her. =)

[GuitarsFromMars]

Originally posted by AnthonySteele
I just may go this year.....schedule permitting. I just need to let you know as soon as I got the tee shirt my licks improved. I think it made the pups sound better. As for Carol, you better take good care of her. =)

I'll be darned-I noticed the same thing... :D

[tradarama]

and fake an illness so that he can totally jack us....sound familiar?

I've been a repeat customer and will be for a long time. First off, most people get regular raises. Second, costs have to be going up. Third, frankly, he can AND SHOULD be rewarded for making a product that everyone wants. He charges extremely fair prices without hype or self promotion.


Great guy to deal with and quality product that delivers more than it promises.

I mean (not picking here) look at Lentz prices since Fender came down. No fault of Lentz here but the "can't get them anymore" premium set in and doubled prices. Look what happened to Tom Holmes pickups when he went missing. Look at Bardens when he was MIA. We're lucky we have them, without 3 year waiting lists and endless delays and pickup scalpers and ugly fighting.

[wichita]

Hey they are great pickups. I will gladly pay more for Jim's stuff

[wsaraceni]

Anyone try out the WCR Black Magic pups, I use a McCarty and would be real interested in them since there are geared towards PRS.

Jim can you give any more Info on these there is not a whole lot of Info on the RS Guitar works site!

they are amazing pickups. installed them on my santana brazilian. i liked them sooo much i plan on ordering a new set of wcr's for my private stock hollowbody eventually. let me know if you want any info on them. if i can ever get around to making a half way decent sound clip, i'll post it up.

[FiestaRed]

and fake an illness so that he can totally jack us....sound familiar?

.

I missed this -- who did this? Details?

WCRs are great pickups. I know this is an old thread, but they are still worth every penny.

-Mark

[Steve Foley]

Well, I didn't feel like re-reading last year's thread again, so I may be speaking out of turn here, but I'll just say this, and let it go:
Jim makes a great set of pickups, and provides great service. He was patient and explicit in walking me through a new setup, and was a gentleman in answering questions that were probably fairly "basic" to a person of his skill. Were the pickups expensive? Yes. Did they make my expensive guitar sound better? Yes, again. In fact, I started playing more with a rig that had been gathering dust; so in a way, this breathed life back into that particular investment. I suppose I could have jsut sold that particular axe, and moved on, but now I'm glad I didn't.
I'd say let the market take care of itself: if the pickups are too expensive for you, go elsewhere - no hard feelings. Go with whatever floats your boat...if you get what you're after for a few pennies, that's awesome! If you need to put a little more cash down, to get there, then use some judgement on whether it's worth it to you. But, please, let Jim (or anyone else, for that matter) charge what he thinks his efforts are worth, and let the buyers decide if it's worth it to them. If a seller gets to the price point that nothing is selling, the expensive product will soon be washed off the shelves on it's own. On the other hand, if the product is selling like hotcakes, and you're having to work day and night to keep up with demand, why not charge a few more dollars?!? I would, and will, and DO, when I can; I also know how to get to macaroni and cheese prices, if I have to - but why would I, if I didn't have to?
Jim at WCR makes a GREAT pickup, provides GREAT service, and is a heck of a fellow to chat with, as well. Really cool fellow. I'll buy from him again, even if it is a little high, I'm sure.....I've bought some "cheap" stuff, and saved a few pennies, that I will DEFINITELY not touch again.....

[snoopy1@isoc.ne]

I think if his pickups were twice the price, they'd still be a steal.

You think!

I have seven guitars and six of them has WCR PU and I'm saving for the next pair. Jim is the best and his PU are great very fast shipping great to deal with. Keep it up Jim :dude Mike from Cincinnati Ohio