Thorn.....opinion please....

[guitarcrazy2004]

Hey i need your help with the sound comparisions from the maple top guitars....Do they sound similar to any model by PRS or gibson?? I would like to order one but need some opinions,as allways -THANKS:D

[Ericsson]

They look like they're based pretty closely on a PRS Santana so you could always try one of those to get an idea, there should be one at your local guitar center for convenience.

[cnardone]

Thorns are completely and totally custom guitars. If you spec it out to sound like a PRs or gibson, you can bet it probably will. As for based on a Santana. Assuming what a guitar sounds like from the body shape is not an accurate assessment. Santana's are 24.5 scale guitars. That gives it's own characteristics. If you go with a 24.75 scale with single coils or P-90s you are not going to sound anything like a Santana. Talk to Ron about the tones you are trying to get and see what he reccommends. Good luck.

cmn

[Scott Peterson]

Originally posted by cnardone
Thorns are completely and totally custom guitars. If you spec it out to sound like a PRs or gibson, you can bet it probably will. As for based on a Santana. Assuming what a guitar sounds like from the body shape is not an accurate assessment. Santana's are 24.5 scale guitars. That gives it's own characteristics. If you go with a 24.75 scale with single coils or P-90s you are not going to sound anything like a Santana. Talk to Ron about the tones you are trying to get and see what he reccommends. Good luck.

cmn

+1

Right on the nose.

Signed - owner, Thorn #47. :D

[John Hurtt]

Originally posted by cnardone
Thorns are completely and totally custom guitars. If you spec it out to sound like a PRs or gibson, you can bet it probably will. As for based on a Santana. Assuming what a guitar sounds like from the body shape is not an accurate assessment. Santana's are 24.5 scale guitars. That gives it's own characteristics. If you go with a 24.75 scale with single coils or P-90s you are not going to sound anything like a Santana. Talk to Ron about the tones you are trying to get and see what he reccommends. Good luck.

cmn

Yep, +2.....

Ron does incredible work, and if you spend a bit of time talking to him about what you want he'll get you there. I have Thorn 091 and I'm sure it sounds very different than Scott's Polexia-grade Koa baby. Both great tones, just different. :D

[big mike]

+3

My Thorn #18 damn sure won't sound like Scott or John's Thorns. Ron rocks. Call him, let him know what you're after, and he can get you there. A great experience, and a phenominal guitar whichever your direction.

[Leonc]

cnardone has it right. Thorns aren't based on PRS Santanas...they're all "based on" the basic body sillouette of old Gibson Les Paul double-cuts (juniors/specials) from the 50s. Other than the outline of the body...Thorns don't necessarily have anything in common with them...or they can an awful lot in common with them...depending on what you're going for. Your choices are just about infinite.

[guitarcrazy2004]

Thanks guys....hard decision..talked to ron-super guy.....time to call back......leon i have a 9/15 that makes my hair stand up!!!! Now i only hope rons guitars do that toooooooo:D

[big mike]

Originally posted by guitarcrazy2004
Thanks guys....hard decision..talked to ron-super guy.....time to call back......leon i have a 9/15 that makes my hair stand up!!!! Now i only hope rons guitars do that toooooooo:D

It will no worries there.

[Ericsson]

Originally posted by Leonc
cnardone has it right. Thorns aren't based on PRS Santanas...they're all "based on" the basic body sillouette of old Gibson Les Paul double-cuts

http://img74.echo.cx/img74/6411/aacopy0yd.jpg

Seems pretty close to me.

[Dan Desy]

Originally posted by Ericsson
http://img74.echo.cx/img74/6411/aacopy0yd.jpg

Seems pretty close to me.

So you think Gibson based their double cut shape on PRS' Santana too?:rolleyes:

[big mike]

Yeah, 22 frets...birdseye maple....different purfling...control layout, scale length, inlay...Straight Santana copy. Oh yeah, see it immediately.:rolleyes:

Guess Hamer is a Santana copy, as is the Gibson LP DC huh?

Dude. It's "influenced" by a 59 Double cut LP Jr. Just like PRS' first design.

[Ericsson]

hero worship defies reality

[big mike]

Whatever. If you don't dig it, don't buy one. More for me. Some people just can't be happy unless they're peeing in someone else's pool.

[MOJO]

Originally posted by Dan Desy
So you think Gibson based their double cut shape on PRS' Santana too?:rolleyes:

Hamer been using the shape since the 70's also..PRS was not to originator of double cut shape

[Testudo]

Originally posted by MOJO
Hamer been using the shape since the 70's also..PRS was not to originator of double cut shape
No, Gibson was probably the first with that doublecut shape - as has been noted, with the '59 LP Jr. Hamer, PRS, and Thorn have all borrowed a bit (or a lot, however you like it) from that shape.

[Ericsson]

Originally posted by big mike
Whatever. If you don't dig it, don't buy one. More for me. Some people just can't be happy unless they're peeing in someone else's pool.

I'm not saying the guitar sucks, I'm saying it's remarkably close to the Santana design. Not just the body shape.

[guitarcrazy2004]

Originally posted by big mike
It will no worries there.





thanks bigmike...........now the wait.....;)

[big mike]

Originally posted by Ericsson
I'm not saying the guitar sucks, I'm saying it's remarkably close to the Santana design. Not just the body shape.

You say it's remarkably close to the Santana. Fine. But your first post said, basically, go play a Santana, it's close enough. You are misinformed.

The Santana is an Evolution of the Gibson design
The Hamer Studio is an evolution of a Gibson design
The Thorn is an evolution of a gibson design
the Gibson LP Doublecut is an evolution of a gibson design.

Now. all 4 of the above guitars, sound nothing alike IMO (Unless you spec'd the thorn as such) but all designs evolved from a common 59 LP jr shape. It on NO WAY means, that they're all the same, or will sound the same.

The original poster, has not mentioned what spec's his desired Thorn will have. you chose one of the most similar Thorns to illustrate your point. But go back through the gallery, and there's more that bear no simbalance to the Santana then there are that are similar.

Point 1, Scale Length. Ron does not offer the Santana scale of 24.5
Point 2 Number of frets. Thorns are only available in 22 fret.
Point 3 Control layout. No where close unless requested.
Point 4 Pups. You chose a thorn that couldn't be FURTHER from a Santana in this respect. Those are Rio Grandes, and the neck pup is actually 2 single coils wired together for a better split tone.
Point 5 Body shape. Not identical.
Point 6. Try getting a Chambered Santana with a stoptail.

You are making broad generalizations that are incorrect. One COULD spec a thorn to be a Santana-esque design. But it STILL wouldn't be the same. Too many things arent available to do it. IE Fret #, Scale, etc etc.

Now in saying this, it's obvious I'm a Thorn fan, but I also own 5 PRS. But if I wanted a santana, I'd buy a Santana. It's a different beast.

This one's mine, #018. No where NEAR a Santana clone.
How do you know something like this isn't what the thread starter wants? A Santana will NOT put you in this ballpark.

http://homepage.mac.com/big_mike/.Pictures/untitled%20folder/018_10.jpg



Peace,
Mike

[Ericsson]

Why is it such a big deal that the guitars are very similar?

[big mike]

Originally posted by Ericsson
Why is it such a big deal that the guitars are very similar?

Similiar I'll buy, but not as close as you were implying.
It's all good, we can agree to disagree, but IMO, you were giving incorrect information, this is what I was addressing.

[big mike]

Originally posted by guitarcrazy2004
thanks bigmike...........now the wait.....;)

it's worth it. I've got one, I cheated, I'm the second owner. And I have one on order. #140 is due around next April.

[Ericsson]

Originally posted by big mike
but IMO, you were giving incorrect information, this is what I was addressing.

"in your opinion"

[big mike]

Originally posted by Ericsson
"in your opinion"

Ever played one?? If you have, you're conclusion would be different.

[guitarcrazy2004]

Wow guys chill out.....if bigmike and leon have one-----how could i go wrong:D anyway if i wanted a another PRS i would buy on,but there is something about the Thorn----i get to order what i want and Ron was the coolest guy to chat with........customer service at it"s best!!!!! so now the choices!!!! :D :D :D

[big mike]

Originally posted by guitarcrazy2004
Wow guys chill out.....if bigmike and leon have one-----how could i go wrong:D anyway if i wanted a another PRS i would buy on,but there is something about the Thorn----i get to order what i want and Ron was the coolest guy to chat with........customer service at it"s best!!!!! so now the choices!!!! :D :D :D

Most definately. I'm well chilled, just having a discussion. Let us know what you end up with! I'll be in Ron's neighborhood mid June, and will get to hang with the Yeti for a few.

[MOJO]

Originally posted by Testudo
No, Gibson was probably the first with that doublecut shape - as has been noted, with the '59 LP Jr. Hamer, PRS, and Thorn have all borrowed a bit (or a lot, however you like it) from that shape.

wasn't imply Hamer was the first.just that Hamer has been using the shape just as long as PRS...

like you said their all borrowed from 59 LP JR

i think the point Bigmike is trying to make is that while the basic shape is pretty much the same as a Santana..the unlimited option on the Thorn can make it a totally different beast then a Santana especially soundwise

take my #48

http://www.thornguitargallery.com/images/048-14.jpg

same basic shape, but world apart soundwise from a Santana, actually different wood specs all together

alder chambered back,flat quilt/eye top ,maple neck
totally different sounding pickups,different scale..know what i mean? it's not going to sound anything like a Santana..

[big mike]

Pretty much MOJO, pretty much.

BTW I LOVE that F hole. Gets me everytime.

[WayneM]

Originally posted by big mike
Most definately. I'm well chilled, just having a discussion. Let us know what you end up with! I'll be in Ron's neighborhood mid June, and will get to hang with the Yeti for a few.

Hey Mike,

Check out #100 when you visit......let me know what's happenin'
on that there geetar.......

ps... that's a hammerhead hole.....don't look like an F to me!!!!!!

lol

[eric102673]

Originally posted by Ericsson
"in your opinion"

The judge from the Gibson vs. PRS case has spoken. :rolleyes:

-e.

[jreardon]

I was lucky enough to try a Thorn, on my recent trip to the US. Great guitar, that sounded and played nothing at all like my Santana III, which is also a great guitar.

Workmanship, playability and sound of the Thorn was amazing. But so is my Santana. To me the only similiarity is that they are both great guitars

[Leonc]

Originally posted by Ericsson
http://img74.echo.cx/img74/6411/aacopy0yd.jpg

Seems pretty close to me.

Sure, they look similar at a superficial level. They'd certainly seem quite close to my mother-in-law...but she doesn't play guitar. Anyone who's really into guitars and guitar playing would notice many differences, subtle and not-so subtle in those pictures.

Similarities:

- body outline
- pretty wood
- pretty inlays
- pretty finishes

Differences

- different headstock angle
- different neck size
- different neck heel
- different neck shape
- different volute
- different fretboard construction and radius
- different fretboard material
- different fret-attachment
- different scale
- different binding and purfling
- different lower cuttaway
- different distance between pickups
- different electronics and knob locations
- different neck/body joint and angle
- different nut material
- different body and neck woods used
- different trem-arm attachment/adjustment

Now, none of those things matter if you just want to make blunt-force comparisons. But if you're actually a guitarist, they add up to something that is in reality, quite a different guitar.

I don't worship Ron, but I do recongize and appreciate all the nuances that make his guitars stand out.

[SteveK]

Originally posted by Ericsson
http://img74.echo.cx/img74/6411/aacopy0yd.jpg

Seems pretty close to me.

Hmmm....do I get a royalty check for use of #25's pic?

These 2 Thorns (#25 and 51 at a gig)sound vastly different from each other:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v348/guitarsk/2Thorns.jpg

and the one I'm waiting for, #72 will sound different than the other 2:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v348/guitarsk/thorn72paint.jpg

To order a PRS with these specs would easily be Private Stock costs. Not to mention the fact that despite liking the Santana body shape, I do not like a 24 fret neck. I have a CU22 BLE and a HBI. Both are great guitars, BUT...Ron's stuff is in a different league altogether. Just my .02

[Jon Silberman]

Hey you guys, even if Ericsson's objectively wrong on any specific point, #1, he's as entitled to his subjective opinions as anyone else and #2, I'm not sure how rolling your eyes at the guy is any more effective in correcting errors or changing the guy's mind than simply responding on the merits.

[Mike Dresch]

Originally posted by Jon Silberman
Hey you guys, even if Ericsson's objectively wrong on any specific point, #1, he's as entitled to his subjective opinions as anyone else and #2, I'm not sure how rolling your eyes at the guy is any more effective in correcting errors or changing the guy's mind than simply responding on the merits.

I respect your opinion Jon, but the fact of the matter is, this individual, IMO, would never admit that he is wrong and would beat the issue to death just to get a reaction. I can think of numerous threads about another small company luthier that this exact thing happened. Trolling, whether obscure or overt, is still trolling.......

[John Hurtt]

Originally posted by Ericsson
hero worship defies reality

Actually, this is a rather insulting post.

During the process of building my Thorn, Ron and I became friends but, come on, give us owners a bit of credit.....

[big mike]

Originally posted by Ian Hurtt
Actually, this is a rather insulting post.

During the process of building my Thorn, Ron and I became friends but, come on, give us owners a bit of credit.....

Thank you John. I was searching for a suitable way to respond to this, and you nailed it.

[MOJO]

Originally posted by Jon Silberman
Hey you guys, even if Ericsson's objectively wrong on any specific point, #1, he's as entitled to his subjective opinions as anyone else and #2, I'm not sure how rolling your eyes at the guy is any more effective in correcting errors or changing the guy's mind than simply responding on the merits.


true john but remember no one's nose got put ouf joint till after his "hero Worship" line...

all we were trying to say was you can't compare 2 guitars based on the shape only..it'a like comparing a vintage Strat to a Anderson Cobra S..same basic "Stratty" body shape but world apart soundwise..not really comparable at all

probably the easiest thing "we " should have said to the original poster was if you want a guitar that sounds like a PRS Santana buy a PRS Santana , if you want something a little different and want to hear what a Thorn sounds like, find one that has the same kind of specs as he would order. and go from there...

there too much variety even within Thorn's to say a Thorn sounds like this..my 2 don't sound anything like Chiba's " 3 burns white queen" or leon's Orca or Scotts Koa three M pickup

i know most other Thorn owners and I as well as Ron himself would be bummed if someone ordered a 2.5K+ custom built Thorn only to not like it because it didn't sound like a PRS Santana he was originally after

[rusmurf]

I feel like I can give a decent opinion here. I own a Thorn with a Brazilian neck and a Santana Brazilian. The only similarity is the DC shape, the guitars sound and play just totally different. Anyone playing the two guitars back to back would immediately feel a difference, before they even hear anything.

Ron borrowed from the Old LP Junior bodyshape, I believe he owns several? I think the only people that make this mistake, are probably PRS owners, with a PRS-centered view(note I'm not calling all prs owners this). The rest of the guitar owning world, doesn't look at things that way. They see the Santana and the rest as borrowing from Gibson.

Also, if you turn the two guitars pictured too have sideway views, they'd look very different.

[PUMAMAN]

The big difference:

Santana= built the way Paul likes it.

Thorn= built the way YOU like it.


Kevin :dude

[Dan Desy]

OK guys, so we've pretty much established that Thorns are based on the LP junior double cut shape. Just like the Santana is.
Just like a bunch of other guitars were.

Can we just start raving about Ron's guitars now? ;)

[rusmurf]

Originally posted by Dan Desy
OK guys, so we've pretty much established that Thorns are based on the LP junior double cut shape. Just like the Santana is.
Just like a bunch of other guitars were.

Can we just start raving about Ron's guitars now? ;)

Dan, when are you making the call?

[Dan Desy]

Originally posted by rusmurf
Dan, when are you making the call?

The call to Ron? Um...After I pay for my Soloway and start saving up again ;)

[Jon Silberman]

At Chiba's last tech day event when we had a good 13 or so Thorns in attendance, having played most of 'em, I can confirm based on personal experience that they can vary quite a bit in tone based on the wood, hardware, and PUP selections. Basically, Ron gives you what you want.

[jreardon]

Originally posted by rusmurf
I feel like I can give a decent opinion here. I own a Thorn with a Brazilian neck and a Santana Brazilian. The only similarity is the DC shape, the guitars sound and play just totally different. Anyone playing the two guitars back to back would immediately feel a difference, before they even hear anything.

...

.

Ru, totally agree. I could feel and hear the differences when I played yours back in April, even though mine was back in the UK and I hadn't touched it for 10 days.

[Chiba]

Let's dial it back a notch, folks.

Everybody's entitled to their opinion - naturally. Let's not let a difference of opinion over something like a guitar body's shape degenerate into a pissing contest.

--chiba

[paintguy]

Trust me, Ron can make it sound and play like almost any guitar you could want. If you are like me, I wanted a Santana shape with different electronics, woods and neck carve. At the time, Ron didn't make guitars or was just starting, and I wasn't aware of him. I had someone else make 1 and it is the end all, do all guitar for me.

I do own a Santana 1 and wanted it to sound similiar, only with more tone options and wood that I hand picked. It does sound very similar to my Prs, only better IMHO.

Of course, pickups can change the whole sound of the guitar, as I have replaced many in my years. Pickups can change the whole character of a guitar when needed.

Larry

[big mike]

Agreed.

Personally, I really want a Santana.

But it will be after I'm done getting Thorn's. Different beast.

[paintguy]

Big Mike,
let me know when you want that Santana as mine is collecting dust in the case. Pulled it out a couple nights ago and man, it is 1 killer guitar. With 13 guitars now, I need to move a couple to get my first Thorn!!!
Larry

[big mike]

Originally posted by paintguy
Big Mike,
let me know when you want that Santana as mine is collecting dust in the case. Pulled it out a couple nights ago and man, it is 1 killer guitar. With 13 guitars now, I need to move a couple to get my first Thorn!!!
Larry

LOLOL Hopefully you'll have it when I have the scrill.

Gotta pay off #140 first.:)

[JDJ]

[Gratuitous Thorn photo]

http://www.thornguitargallery.com/images/074-16.jpg

:D

[daveS]

Well guys, all of the "other" builders I have seen comparisons to in this post are all great in thier own right. . . . . in fact, I own at least one of each of thier guitars. However, none of them would build me THIS. . . . . . .


http://www.thornguitargallery.com/images/016-16.jpg
http://www.thornguitargallery.com/images/016-18.jpg


. . . . . AND none of them have Ron there to make sure everything turns out just right :D


Cheers
-Dave

[Leonc]

Originally posted by daveS
Well guys, all of the "other" builders I have seen comparisons to in this post are all great in thier own right. . . . . in fact, I own at least one of each of thier guitars. However, none of them would build me THIS. . . . . . .

. . . . . AND none of them have Ron there to make sure everything turns out just right :D


Cheers
-Dave

Jeez, yet another Santana rip-off :rolleyes: :D

[daveS]

Originally posted by Leonc
Jeez, yet another Santana rip-off :rolleyes: :D

I know I know . . you're right. . . how dare I ! ! :eek:

[Mark Ray]

I love ice cream. These guitars are different flavors of ice cream.

I owned an early LP Junior double-cut for 18 years-my #1 during that time. It's my favorite body shape. I have played several different Santana models, including Carl's Carlos' guitar. I really like those guitars!

Having said that, I REALLY like Ron's take on this body shape, and own #29. As everyone has already stated, he builds you what you want, how you wnat, as fancy or as plain as you want. I think builders such as Ron, Joe, Saul, etc. are geared more toward people who haved played long enough to know exactly what they want/don't want in a guitar.

WE ARE LIVING IN THE GOLDEN AGE OF ELECTRIC GUITARS!

Mark

[noodle_world]

limba and p90s is the way to go!

:dude

[big mike]

Originally posted by noodle_world
limba and p90s is the way to go!

:dude :D :D :D :D
<grinning #18 owner>

[daveS]

Originally posted by Mark Ray
I love ice cream. These guitars are different flavors of ice cream.


Yeah we all love ice cream . . . . . . that is why left handed flavor #2 is being hand churned right now :D

[trisonic]

LeonC,
Can I just jump in and request that you post another pic of your Desert Sunburst Thorn - I love that 'burst with the blue!

Best, Pete.

[Leonc]

Originally posted by trisonic
LeonC,
Can I just jump in and request that you post another pic of your Desert Sunburst Thorn - I love that 'burst with the blue!

Best, Pete.

I don't know Pete...I'm ashamed to admit that I ripped off that whole Santana thing with that guitar....you know, Santanas are shaped like Les Paul Jrs...my guitar is shaped like a Les Paul Jr; Santanas have 6 stings...my guitar has six strings; Santanas are made from wood...mine is made from wood; Santanas have some switches and pickups...mine has some switches and pickups. It's so embarassing...the list goes on and on...

ah, what the hell, consider my arm twisted :D

http://www.Patchwerkz.com/LeonsGear/Thorn/latest.jpg

[Ericsson]

You're saying that he sat down with a blank piece of paper, put his chin in has hand, and through hours of design arrived at a result that looks almost identical to a Santana? This is some example of convergent evolution that by chance captured a group of disaffected PRS customers? You're dreaming.

[eric102673]

Cause you know, if this ain't the spitting image of a Santana, I don't know what is!?! Heck, every time I see this baby I just can't help but think "Carlos!"

http://www.thornguitargallery.com/images/028-3.jpg

:rolleyes:

Oh wait, no, you must mean this one...

http://www.hamerguitars.com/pics/models/artult_lg.jpg

or maybe I'm confused and it was this one...

http://www.gibson.com/Files/images/lps2ta.jpg

[eric102673]

no no no, It musta been one of these...

http://www.mcnaughtguitars.com/tigerseyelarge.jpg

Um, no SURELY it was one of these!

http://www.edromanguitars.com/resources/images/jar1007a.jpg

Oh, wait, it's really one of these...

http://www.prsguitars.com/showcase/current/guitars/gt_sant2.jpg

-groan- :rolleyes:

I suppose Paul Smith should have mentioned how much my Thorn looked like his Santana design instead of gushing about how cool it was when he played it? Or maybe when he asked me to introduce him to Ron, because he was so impressed by the stuff Ron was doing that PRS does not? Hmmm. Yeah, Paul forgot to mention all that. Maybe it was because the DC body shape is the property of public domain, and that is the only reason why PRS was able to produce the Santana as a production guitar in the first place, and why all these guys, PRS included are not being sued by Gibson and Co?
No, That Mr. Thorn, he never sits down with pad and paper. Not even when he's designing machinery to build guitars with. Not even machines that Paul Smith may or may not have been interested in. Not even when he's been doing inlay design for Private Stock guitars.

FWIW, the one Paul played (in a room full of PRS fans no less)while grinning ear to ear looks like this:

http://www.thornguitargallery.com/images/010-body.jpg

Do all these guys stand on each other's backs? Hell yeah, but they also bring their own spin to the party. Are they all knockoffs? No more than the SC/LP etc. and so on. Every creative person throughout history has stood on the backs of the folks that came before. It's called accumulation of knowledge. It's the advances that they also bring that are fresh and new. You'd have thought Paul invented the carved top........ Sheesh.

-e.

[Jon Silberman]

"If I see further, it is because I stand on the shoulders of those who have gone before me."

Isaac Newton

[Scott Peterson]

Guys, Ericsson is stirring the pot and probably checks in for 2 seconds a day just to cast another troll post out at cha, and ya all biting on it.

He's playin' ya guys. And you fallin' hard for it.

Just an observation.

I stated my opinion of his opinion simply, honestly and then I walked away.

If he posts last on it, it doesn't mean he wins.

But he is making the Thorn guys look defensive. (And I am a Thorn guy).

"Let it rock, let it roll.... just let it go, yeah." Def Leppard

[eric102673]

Personally I think people aren't so much trying to convince Ericsson that his opinion is wrong, but rather to head off the chance that more folks who are new to the topic or just new to Ron's gear will adopt that twisted logic without a full understanding of what the differences are.

For my part, I was just looking for an excuse to post pictures of some Thorns. He just opened the door.

;)

-e.

[big mike]

http://zacharyguitars.com/160699_01.JPG

If this is what you get putting pen to paper, I'll take a twist and evolution of a public domain shape ANY day. :eek: :D :p

[Ericsson]

Originally posted by Scott Peterson
Guys, Ericsson is stirring the pot and probably checks in for 2 seconds a day just to cast another troll post out at cha, and ya all biting on it.

Not true. But thanks for the conjecture.

[big mike]

Having a go at the Admin is likely not the wisest course of action. <shrug>

I'm going to go play my thorn before work. I'm outta here.:p

[Leonc]

Originally posted by big mike
Having a go at the Admin is likely not the wisest course of action. <shrug>

I'm going to go play my thorn before work. I'm outta here.:p

Hey can we hear a little Oye Commo Va, please? :D

[daveS]

Ok ok . . . this settles it. I'm convinced everyone is copying everyone. Check out this blatant rip off of a Santana. DC plagiarism all the way !! If this is not just a flat out copy of a Santana . . I don't know what is. I mean even down to the chrome cover on the pickup ! (I have seen Carlos play a guitar with a chrome cover on the pickup before . . I'm sure of it !). And these guys who made this thought they were sly by making it a hard tail instead of a trem to fool us. . . .nice try copycats !

http://elluzion.net/img/ugly_guitar_01.jpg

[big mike]

Originally posted by Leonc
Hey can we hear a little Oye Commo Va, please? :D

Nah, but I did crank up Samba Pa Ti.


:p

[Stevo57]

I think "Everyone is Everything" would be more apropro!

[Ericsson]

Originally posted by big mike
Having a go at the Admin is likely not the wisest course of action. <shrug>

Sounds like he had a dig at me first.

[big mike]

Originally posted by Stevo57
I think "Everyone is Everything" would be more apropro!

Doh! I shoulda known that.

"Mother's Daughter" Maybe?

First line..."I got no time, for fooling with you baby..You're stupid game is about to end"

[scott]

Regardless of what people think about the shape, Rons guitars are works of art. He puts his heart and soul into it and he loves his work. Not only that but he is a super nice guy.......almost too nice. He wouldnt make it in prison....lol. I dont know where that came from.:) Anyway, anyone who can craft a guitar to the quality that Ron can gets my utmost respect.
A guy could sit down and draft something totally original but guess what, people probably wouldnt buy it. Guitarists are stupidly traditional. They hate change. If people dont buy your guits then you got to get a regular job, or go hungry. Regular jobs suck ass!! Ive had plenty of them I know.
Some people will always be negative, they will always be the ones to point out the negative and those people probably arent much fun to be around. You might call them ani-positive. When I look at Rons guitars all I see is positive, art, beauty and craftsmanship. It looks like a DC Gibson a little bit but its taken to a much higher level.

Thats all I have to say about that.




www.heatleyguitars.com

[Ericsson]

A guy could sit down and draft something totally original but guess what, people probably wouldnt buy it. Guitarists are stupidly traditional. They hate change. If people dont buy your guits then you got to get a regular job, or go hungry. Regular jobs suck ass!! Ive had plenty of them I know. Some people will always be negative, they will always be the ones to point out the negative and those people probably arent much fun to be around. You might call them ani-positive. When I look at Rons guitars all I see is positive, art, beauty and craftsmanship. It looks like a DC Gibson a little bit but its taken to a much higher level.

Let me clear something up: I'm not saying anything negative about the guitars. I'm saying the design closely replicates a competing model from another company. If you interpret that as a negative, that is up to you.

And thanks for the personal comments. I'll take them under advisement along with Peterson's.

[Testudo]

I am going to bash my head against a concrete wall now, for your personal enjoyment.
Here is the point I believe has been made many times in this thread:
The Gibson '59 LP Jr doublecut has inspired the design of many guitars that followed. See example below - LP Jr, Hamer Studio, PRS Santana, Thorn.
http://home.comcast.net/~peterj136/all4.jpg
All subsequent designs are based on the LP Junior. If Thorn is basing his guitars' shape on another design, it's the LP - which is the same thing Hamer and Santana have done.
Ow, my head hurts.

[Ron Thorn]

Shoot...I designed something just like this...but with a koa heel, back to the drawing board.

http://members.aol.com/thorninlay/footware.jpg

;)

[Ron Thorn]

...and for the official record, not that it really matters much, I had a plexiglass template from an ESP Bass body that they used to offer years ago. I used that to get the basic geometry and tweaked from there. :)

[big mike]

Originally posted by Ericsson

And thanks for the personal comments. I'll take them under advisement along with Peterson's.

Cool. Glad we could help.

[big mike]

Originally posted by Ron Thorn
Shoot...I designed something just like this...but with a koa heel, back to the drawing board.

http://members.aol.com/thorninlay/footware.jpg

;)

Can you do those in a 13EE Ron, and in Pimp Daddy Purple? Those would look great with my football jersey.

:p

[daveS]

Originally posted by Ron Thorn
Shoot...I designed something just like this...but with a koa heel, back to the drawing board.

http://members.aol.com/thorninlay/footware.jpg

;)

Oh No ! Ron . . . please don't tell us that these are your "personal stash" . . :p

[Ericsson]

Originally posted by big mike
Cool. Glad we could help.

You're going head to head with him for title of chief tool. Good to see it's alright for some of you to not follow the "rules".

[Scott Peterson]

If you are defined by your actions, then posting on a thread with your opinion and no facts or context is stirring the pot.

Stirring the pot by serial posting on one thread as the main "bad guy" and posting every few posts to again bring your opinion is well, trolling.

It is no flame, and it is nothing but what it is. I wouldn't know Ericsson from anybody else on the street.

I just get a kick out of how folks act on the internet sometimes.

You get called out for doing what you are doing and you just waive it back. Transference. Where is the proof, the context, the backstory that backs up your postition on this matter?

Ericsson, if you have anything to add other than stirring the pot for no apparent reason.... why continue? Seems pointless.

You made your opinion known, and redefined it over and over whilst others presented photos as proof that you were oversimplifying. You add nothing else to back up your claim that the Thorns are nothing but Santana rip-offs.

Though, they aren't as others and even Ron himself points out very clearly.

Simple as that.

[Ericsson]

You think I'm a troll?

I think you're a tool.

[Scott Peterson]

Originally posted by Ericsson
You think I'm a troll?

I think you're a tool.

You are indeed what you are.

I won't bother with an email, you know the next step.

I was "Chief Tool" and then demoted to just "tool". At least I wasn't "Chef Tool". :D

[big mike]

Hey Scott, I'm tied with you for cheif tool, or were you demoted?

Anyway. Signature updated.

[Scott Peterson]

Originally posted by big mike
Hey Scott, I'm tied with you for cheif tool, or were you demoted?

Anyway. Signature updated.

I think you and I were Cheif Tool and I got demoted.

Man, I can't catch a break anywhere right now. :D

[e-z]

You know, I just re-read all the posts and although I think calling someone a tool is out of line, the rest of his posts weren't aggressive and were in fact very civil. The one exception being the post where he said:

"You're saying that he sat down with a blank piece of paper, put his chin in has hand, and through hours of design arrived at a result that looks almost identical to a Santana? This is some example of convergent evolution that by chance captured a group of disaffected PRS customers? You're dreaming."

Now, aside from being insulting to Mr. Thorn, this is just one guy's opinion. As far as him trolling, I think he was just responding to everybody's mockery. He just got defensive and couldn't let it go.

For the record, I don't own a Thorn or a PRS and openly support the idea that every guitar is different. Just ask my wife.

[big mike]

e-z

Respectfully my friend, I disagree. I've witnessed him do this on several boards. He seemed to enjoy stirring up pissing contests, and when they cooled out, a well timed instigating post is interjected.

That's all. Nothing personal, I just don't cotton to people trolling and trying to start fights. That's how *I* Percieved it.

Now as far as guitars being different, apparently you're wife and my Girlfriend are fed the same line by us. :D:D

[Dan Desy]

Originally posted by big mike
e-z

Respectfully my friend, I disagree. I've witnessed him do this on several boards. He seemed to enjoy stirring up pissing contests, and when they cooled out, a well timed instigating post is interjected.

That's all. Nothing personal, I just don't cotton to people trolling and trying to start fights. That's how *I* Percieved it.

Now as far as guitars being different, apparently you're wife and my Girlfriend are fed the same line by us. :D:D

So are you saying your girlfriend is simply a copy of e-z's wife?
How different are their tones?
Or did you sit down with a pencil and a paper, put your chin in your hand and... ;)

[noodle_world]

Originally posted by Ron Thorn
Shoot...I designed something just like this...but with a koa heel, back to the drawing board.

http://members.aol.com/thorninlay/footware.jpg

;)

hey ron,

can you do this in a sunburst? That would be hot!

haha

:dude

[e-z]

Originally posted by Dan Desy
So are you saying your girlfriend is simply a copy of e-z's wife?
How different are their tones?
Or did you sit down with a pencil and a paper, put your chin in your hand and... ;)


Actually my wife was "inspired" by somebody else's wife so his girlfriend is really a copy of her.

[big mike]

Originally posted by e-z
Actually my wife was "inspired" by somebody else's wife so his girlfriend is really a copy of her.

I'll buy that. Problem now...Ron uses them lovely Alligator cases, she'll be able to know there's more than one of those.:p

[CarlWerkmeister]

Mike, Mike, Mike.....you need to think outside the box.....:D
Just buy a PRS case for the Thorn and she'll never know...they're so similar anyway....:p

[big mike]

Originally posted by CarlWerkmeister
Mike, Mike, Mike.....you need to think outside the box.....:D
Just buy a PRS case for the Thorn and she'll never know...they're so similar anyway....:p

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!

[whoofnagle]

Originally posted by Ron Thorn
Shoot...I designed something just like this...but with a koa heel, back to the drawing board.

http://members.aol.com/thorninlay/footware.jpg

;)

I'll take a pair:

Specs:

1 piece limba
Brazilian Burst

:D

Bill

[paintguy]

Fricken' hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!


P.S. Ron, can I get the shoes in "Tiger eye" or is that only available on Thorn Private Stocks? Also how much for a brazilian sole and "10" side?

[Chops]

Who could spec out a guitar personally, have several back and forth discusisions with the builder to ensure all would be perfect, pay several thousand dollars, wait 18 to 24 months, and then admit: "this didn't really turn out as I had hoped?"

[Jon Silberman]

I could do that and based on my personal experiences with the folks here, I'll bet many others could, also.

Example: the custom Taylor dreadnaught I ordered in '99. Spec'd out everything, waited 4-6 months (can't remember exactly), got the guitar, it sucked to me, sold it 4 years later for a big loss, have no trouble whatsoever sharing the story.

These things happen eventually with any builder. That makes it worth noticing, doesn't it, that we've never heard even one example of it having happened with Thorn? ;)

[Scott Peterson]

Originally posted by Chops
Who could spec out a guitar personally, have several back and forth discusisions with the builder to ensure all would be perfect, pay several thousand dollars, wait 18 to 24 months, and then admit: "this didn't really turn out as I had hoped?"

I did and with Ron Thorn too. #47 took 13 months to complete.

My Thorn was spec'd - by me - with three Mini-hums; Anderson "M Series" Mini-hums.

The guitar was perfect in every respect; except over the first few months I owned the guitar, I came to realize that the bridge pickup was much too thin and bright no matter what I did (changing pots, lowering into body (pickup height), working with the tone pot, etc..).

So I reluctantly called Ron up and discussed it with him.

The solution that both he and I agreed to? I sent the guitar back to the Yeti Cave and she went back up on the CNC machine and had some surgury. The bridge mini-hum is now a full humbucker.

The first one I originally put in there was a WCR Shredder; in the end I felt that it too was not a good match with the guitar. Next up? WCR Goodwood (my all-time favorite pickup, utterly blowing my mind still to this day in my Melancon Custom Artist "S") and RS Guitarworks electronics (pots, switches and wiring back to the output jack). The result? "Viola!"

So, in the end, you can have some issues and still come to a happy conclusion.

Custom spec'd guitars have one very heavy caveat; it assumes the meathead spec'ing the guitar knows what he wants. I spec'd pickups and electronics that were not known or tested by me in an attempt to create something unique and different that would offer me a new voice on the guitar. Turns out, I was wrong to do that based on my taste and playing style.

In the end; it is what it is. Whatever you ask for, you will get delivered in an extraordinary guitar. Just be careful what you ask for. :D

[realmpel]

Scott, Ron turned your guitar into a viola? That's incredible! :D

~Kev

[paintguy]

Scott,
I think it's fair to say the guitar was magical but the sound wasn't exactly what you wanted. I would consider a few pickup changes a minor fix. (Like you said, you picked the pickups)

I too had the same experience on my custom guitar. The guitar was awesome but the pickups I originally decided on were just not a good fit. After 3 changes, I finally got what I wanted and couldn't be happier.( My luthier knew he would be installing 2-3 pickups till I was happy) He told me that during the build process.
It just goes to show the right pickup has to be mated with each particular guitar and "all is well".

I also think it's fair to say Ron delivered exactly what you wanted,
it just took a couple pickup changes for you to know exactly what you wanted!!!! And nobody knows what you really need until the guitar is done.

I think anyone who deals with Ron will get everything they could want out of a guitar. (Is there a cooler guy to deal with?) Granted, they may have to try a few pickups, but that's a small price to pay for the guitar of your dreams.

It's pretty common to change pickups on guitars (guitarists are always looking for the right combo of pickups to mate with a guitars' particular voice.

Aren't we all guilty of that? Just ask Jim Wagner!!!!

Larry

P.S. Thorns rock!!!!!!!!!!

[Scott Peterson]

Exactly guys; he went the extra mile so I could get the bridge humbucker tone I wanted in the first place. But *I* was to blame in that case, not Ron.

And as for a viola vs. a guitar, well, it certainly does sing. :D

[Chun13]

Guys, you're all making me feel nervous ! USA - Belgium, then Belgium - USA in case I don't like it ?

Anyway, I still have lots of months to decide for what I really want, but since sounds description is different to each other, how to explain ???

[big mike]

Originally posted by Chun13
Guys, you're all making me feel nervous ! USA - Belgium, then Belgium - USA in case I don't like it ?

Anyway, I still have lots of months to decide for what I really want, but since sounds description is different to each other, how to explain ???

Chun, I would suggest establishing a common vocabulary.

IE: I want it to sound like oh, Joe Mama on the "Where's my DIaper" solo, that sort of thing.

(obviously a made up band for you jokers...)

But establish what you're looking for. For mine, he knows I'm looking for a chambered take on the LP Tone. Sorta Kinda like Peter Green.

[Chun13]

okay, I want a full, phat sound, not muddy, :D

Is that clear to you ? :D

[Testudo]

Originally posted by Chun13
okay, I want a full, phat sound, not muddy, :D

Is that clear to you ? :D
It's a start.:p You just need to better define "full & phat" for you - midrangey? - choose some mahogany. Bright? - consider maple cap or maple neck. Some low range response? - again mahogany, maybe ash or swamp ash.
Deeper, darker tone? - you can't go wrong with a rosewood neck.
And limba is good for everything.

[Chun13]

In fact, when we speced out theguitar with Ron, he told me :

maple top + mahog body

Mahog neck + ebony fretboard

Now, I just hope it turns out like I want :)

[Dan Desy]

Originally posted by Chun13
In fact, when we speced out theguitar with Ron, he told me :

maple top + mahog body

Mahog neck + ebony fretboard

Now, I just hope it turns out like I want :)

If it was me, I'd go with Ebony on Rosewood neck . I think that would be a wicked combo, with the brightness of ebony offsetting the rosewood darkness. Plus, the feel of nekkid rosewood...

I never played, or even come across a neck like that, but I'm sure it would be killer!

[Chun13]

Mmmmm, might be interesting, will mail Ron to have his advice...

Still not in Paris ? I hope you'll bring your swan with you so that I can have a clean look at it ! :)

[Dan Desy]

Originally posted by Chun13
Mmmmm, might be interesting, will mail Ron to have his advice...

Still not in Paris ? I hope you'll bring your swan with you so that I can have a clean look at it ! :)

The move ain't happening... :mad:

Sorry.

[Chun13]

Damn, I didn't follow it closely :(

Sorry to hear that, guess I'd be the one to visit you :D

[paintguy]

I have a ebony fingerboard on a rosewood neck. I love it!!!!

fwiw,

Larry

[John Hurtt]

Originally posted by Chun13
In fact, when we speced out theguitar with Ron, he told me :

maple top + mahog body

Mahog neck + ebony fretboard

Now, I just hope it turns out like I want :)

That's the specs on 091, with the addition of a thicker chambered body. That wood combo + Wagner Goodwoods + Ron Thorn's incredible workmanship = killer tone!

[Chun13]

Yup, I wanted to counter a bit of the chambering with a thicker body but since I will have a flat top Ron told me that it wasn't too good for an idea...