Calling all fellow pro luthiers from the 1970's! [Archive]

Terry McInturff

06-02-2005, 05:36 PM

Hello all,

This is such a selfish thread. It is truly for my own enjoyment! I can only hope that it provides some fun for those of you who read it. I suppose that it will die a quick death if it does not. That is justice. I can live with that.

Calling all pro luthiers who were paying the bills via guitar repair/building at any time in the 1970's!

This thread is...yes... all about history and nostalgia. But I hope to hear some war stories from the guys and gals that have REALLY paid some dues in this business/art. It does not matter if you gave it up in later years...I want to hear your story.

And if guitars have paid your bills steadily from anytime in the 70's until today...I REALLY WANT TO HEAR YOUR STORY!!!

Maybe....casual readers will get a look at how the art and craft arrived at where it is today. Who knows?

We all look at the current times as being "The Golden Age of Guitar Making" and justly so. How did we get here? The "full-time from the 70's" crowd can tell you.

I "date" from late 1977 (ie, full-time guitarwork payin' the bills, no gaps since) and like others from that era to today, I have a story to tell. But, I will hold off of telling my story for now.

Will any of you pioneers please share your story..or a part of it?

Do any of the younger builders have any questions for us "old guys"?

Let it roll.......stories from the days when Titebond was pretty new, when we knew how to cook hide glue, when we simply HAD to master the use of shellac (not to mention NitroCellulose lacquer),

when you had no hope of approaching tolerances to the thousands-of-an-inch unless you had God-given hand and eye skills (and plenty of practise), when every single scrap of exotic hardwood was saved, when you dug thru a boxfull of spruce scraps looking for the perfect "cleat",

and when any use of epoxy on any part of a stringed instrument was the mark of a hack.

And, no less importantly.....the stream of stringed instruments that passed thru your hands had a HIGH percentage of INCREDIBLE this, that, and the other....

Stories, please!

Thanks in advance,

Terry McInturff

Gadowguitars

06-02-2005, 06:33 PM

Hey Terry!....we still "cook hide glue" over here at High Strung!:dude

56Tweed

06-02-2005, 08:19 PM

I bet there have to be some stories to tell! I'm a youngster, but when I started looking at guitars back in the '80s there weren't a whole lot of smaller builders. Or at least they were harder to find.

I think my understanding of the instrument has changed and I now recognize the difference between an assembly line widget and a piece of craftsmanship. :cool:

Mike

Shades

06-02-2005, 09:14 PM

I first started in 1978 doing amp repair, then guitar repair the next year. I didn't really start building them until 1981 (I still use hot hide glue most of the time btw). I'll tell you, info was pretty hard to come by back then and every tip you got was taken for what is was...manna from heaven (I got the sloan book early on, and Kamimoto's book soon after). I had been doing both woodwork and electronics since I was a little kid. My grandfather was a carpenter and my dad was an EE for Raytheon. I actually kind of stumbled into the whole thing when I was asked whether I could fix an amp by a guy that knew I was an electronics geek.

ToneGurus

06-02-2005, 11:35 PM

OK, so I'm NOT one, but I want to give a plug for the first guy I ever "almost" had build me a guitar. His name is Dennis (Denny) Stevens, who was from Golden, CO. He's built a lot of flat tops and pre WWII style archtops. Also mandolins and other whacky stuff. I almost commissioned him to build me a 335 style guitar in 1984. He quit his job in 1974 or so to build full time. He is a master's master.

I'd love to contact him. He lives somewhere in Oregon now, and I hear it's a 3 -4 year wait for his instruments now. A couple of friends of mine have L5 style guitars from him, as well as Dale Bruning, one of the old time greats from the area. This clip features Dale playing his main guitar, an L5 that Denny made for him:

http://www.jazzlinkenterprises.com/clips/TomorrowsReflections/thetouchofyourlips.rm

You can also hear Dale's (Denny's) L5 on the duo album Dale made with his student, Bill Frisell:

http://audiolunchbox.com/images/albums/16k/16625-500.jpg

Mike

Saul Koll

06-03-2005, 09:57 AM

Great Thread! I'm always interested in this kind of thing.
I started a little later, in the early 80's. But the shop where I got my first job had been there since the early 60's, so there was much carry over.
Everything was hideglue, shellac and lacquer, powdered stains, etc. We were wary of titebond, and just started to see superglues. I was appalled when one of the guys glued his frets in!
Back then we saw all kinds of weird old timey "repair". They were " fixed up real good." We spent a lot of time just removing old crappy work to get to the job.
We kept everything. Every scrap for grafting future work. Some of our customers knew this. I remember one player bringing his D'Angelico guitar back that had been converted to a cutaway a decade earlier. He wanted us to go through our wood and find the "cutaway section" that had been removed for the procedure. He was convinced it was in the back somewhere! With D'Angelico prices going up, he wanted to put it back to original. I saw the tail end of that time when "vintage guitars" replaced old/used guitars.
It has been fun amazing to see all the changes over the years. These days everyone knows a whole lot more!

Back to the wood pile,

Cheers,

Saul

Jack Briggs

06-03-2005, 07:42 PM

Let's see......in the late '70's I was doing some repairs, but only occasionally; built my own guitars starting in 1977 (bolt-necks.) Did the sporadic repair or build for bandmate or such during the '80's while gigging in cover bands up and down the East coast. Got serious about building in the late '90's, which I've been doing since. And I DO cook hide glue!!

tms13pin

06-03-2005, 08:55 PM

How's that hide glue taste with good 'ol NC BBQ? :D

Sounds like NC's a hotbed for both of these!

--Tom

decay-o-caster

06-03-2005, 11:44 PM

I lived in Bridgeport, CT in the early 80s and ran across two luthiers whose names I can't begin to recall. I almost got one of them to build me a guitar. Like an idiot, I chose to buy a Carvin instead! :eek:

Hey - what can I tell you? It was koa! :rolleyes:

Stan Williams

06-04-2005, 12:57 AM

Well lets see, started torturing my own guitars in 1969 because of a lack of information{was like trying to get in the CIA} Begain building guitars in 83 and repairing $250 Les Pauls {really $250 were around} and really anything with a fretboard.
Early on I had to put up with the guy with a cheap guitar with no money, they would talk me into doing a cheap repair and I always regretted it.{spent hours looking for a 10 cent bushing that fell off the $10 guitar and ended up charging $10 for the repair. Almost gave it up 1000s of times but some how have survived. Today I build and repair stringed instruments and repair tube amps. That's my story and I'm sticking to it, too old not to.
Stan Williams
S. C. Williams Guitars

Stike

06-04-2005, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by tms13pin
How's that hide glue taste with good 'ol NC BBQ? :D

Sounds like NC's a hotbed for both of these!

--Tom

Umm, like shit!:I think hide glue is made out of the parts you cant eat which in NC aint much more than bones and hair. We'll take that thang from the rooter to the tooter.

Terry McInturff

06-04-2005, 09:45 AM

I was hired as a repairman by Oxbow Music in Chapel Hill in January of 1978. Ive been full-time ever since.

The absolute worst thing to=date happened not long after. I had just finished steaming a neck off of an acoustic in order to re-set the neck angle. I was talking on the phone while holding the neck in my left hand.

The guy that I worked for came barging into the shop...he kinda threw the door open (he was carrying something) and the door caught me in my left arm's funny-bone.

I dropped the neck on the floor and it exploded into a million pieces. I remember a certain "sinking feeling". :(

The customer was delighted, as I bought him a brand new guitar (one that he had been wanting) to replace his old one. I was somewhat less than delighted. :(

Jack Briggs

06-04-2005, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by Terry McInturff
I was hired as a repairman by Oxbow Music in Chapel Hill in January of 1978. Ive been full-time ever since.

The absolute worst thing to=date happened not long after. I had just finished steaming a neck off of an acoustic in order to re-set the neck angle. I was talking on the phone while holding the neck in my left hand.

The guy that I worked for came barging into the shop...he kinda threw the door open (he was carrying something) and the door caught me in my left arm's funny-bone.

I dropped the neck on the floor and it exploded into a million pieces. I remember a certain "sinking feeling". :(

The customer was delighted, as I bought him a brand new guitar (one that he had been wanting) to replace his old one. I was somewhat less than delighted. :(

Wow! I could read stories like that all day! Repair experts like yourself, Terry, really have my respect. You've no doubt had to improvise an awful lot to keep the customer happy. But, I can't help what wonder - aren't you hard at work today??!!!

Cheers

Gary Ladd

06-04-2005, 11:23 AM

Back in 1977 I went to my first luthier to get a brass-nut put on my Univox ES-335 that I was desparate to turn into a blues machine LOL, he also did some work on an old Martin I had as well...he did some excellent work & crafted some nice guitars as well.

He was sharing his Tustin, CA work-space with Jim Kelley, who had just started his own shop repairing/making amps - Does anyone know that luthier's name?

Thanks :cool:

AJ Love

06-06-2005, 10:49 AM

I find it interesting what a small world it is for builders and how so many of you know or have worked with each other...

for instance (got this from Gene Baker's Fined Tuned Instruments website) how Gene Baker was an apprentice under Gibson Master Builder Roger Griffin for awhile.... and then later was a master apprentice under Fred Stuart and Jay Black at at the Fender Custom Shop in the 90's while working alongside folks like John English, John Suhr, Kenny Gin (currently of Suhr Guitars), Mark Kendrick, and many others... and had Mike Ponce (also currently with Suhr Guitars) as an apprentice for awhile later on...

george4908

06-06-2005, 10:51 AM

John, when would this have been? Some of the first custom built guitars I ever saw were "Alex Axe" guitars in the early 70s. I remember being seriously impressed that people could build individual guitars like that -- until I looked at them up close. They were fairly crude.

enharmonic

06-07-2005, 04:57 AM

Question for all of the pro's

Have any of you ever done a job that took your skills to a whole other level? Meaning...a time when your skills were used to their maximum potential, and you had a "breakthrough" in your craft?

Sort of like when you start writing songs. You might write several hundred before things start to come together...and another hundred before you consider yourself good...then maybe a few hundred more before you know you have something special and people around you know it too...was there a progression like that for any of you as pro luthiers/craftsmen?

OOG

06-07-2005, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by Gary Ladd
Back in 1977 I went to my first luthier to get a brass-nut put on my Univox ES-335 that I was desparate to turn into a blues machine LOL, he also did some work on an old Martin I had as well...he did some excellent work & crafted some nice guitars as well.

He was sharing his Tustin, CA work-space with Jim Kelley, who had just started his own shop repairing/making amps - Does anyone know that luthier's name?

Thanks :cool:

too funny!
looking at this thread i was tempted to post on a great guy who taught me a ton off stuff
he didn't "share" with Jim as such
he let Jim work in his shop a while 'cause Jim was friends with a guy named Todd Wilson who loaned Jim his Ampeg (the bass amp with the flip around top) to COPY it's circut
that was where the now rare and desireable Jim Kelly amp started, i'ts an Ampeg copy
Jim then leased the shop next to his and made his amps
never really liked them 'cause they needed a big old attenuator
to sound right
things got really weird there 'cause of a couple of factors (plz don't ask) and ended up in a stupid law suite

Dale Fortune is the name of your mystery luthier
if you'r ever lucky enough to find a strat or tele with a fender spagetti looking logo that says Fortune instead of Fender
Buy It!

Dale learned his stuff from Leo and Doc
a pure source

JingleJungle

06-15-2005, 10:31 AM

I am actually looking to get in touch with a luthier called Chris Lukasic.
He built this one (http://www.jjm.ch/t-bolt.htm), according to my sources.
Any help is really appreciated!

Oh yes... and my warmest regards to all you fine craftsmen out there... I'd go totally broke if I had to buy one guitar from each of you guys! I'd have to own 'em all :D :D !!

JJ Paul

Schroeder

06-15-2005, 11:24 AM

Great stories! I would imagine that information is one of the biggest changes in guitar building in the last 30 years. I remember when I built my first instrument, a bass in the late 80s, there was no internet and very few books to reference. My dad's guitars and pictures in Guitar Player magazine were all I had to go by!!

Questions for the veterans...

1) Looking forward to the the next 20-30 years, if your son/daughter was interested in building guitars for a living, what would your concerns be?

2) I remember reading a quote from Les Paul saying that the guitar-building community needs to think outside the box and take the guitar to the next level. Any thoughts on that? What are the most significant advances have you seen to the guitar in the last 30 years? What are the biggest issues that need to be addressed or in your opinion has the instrument been perfected?

3) What is the general concensus on the theory that the tonewood supply is dwindling?

Gary Ladd

06-15-2005, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by OOG
Dale Fortune is the name of your mystery luthier
if you'r ever lucky enough to find a strat or tele with a fender spagetti looking logo that says Fortune instead of Fender
Buy It!

Dale learned his stuff from Leo and Doc
a pure source

OMG...that's the name! :D

Dale was a GREAT luthier, in fact I met Leo at Dale's shop...where is he now? :confused:

lhallam

06-15-2005, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by Suhr
What got me going full time was a guy on Music row in NYC who worked in Alex music was supposed to do good inlay work so I trusted him with my hand made Junior style guitar that Bob Benedetto made the neck on. This guy butchered it so bad I was in tears, it was totally unfixable, I was 17, I took it home and smashed it. What really pissed me off is I said, if you cant do workmanship 100% as well as what is there now, please dont accept the job. He said no probelm, I know what I'm doing, it looked like he did it with a hatchet and beaver teeth. Ebony destroyed, fret work terrible, Inlays crooked and very ugly.

10 Years later a guy walks into Rudys (Rudy knew the story too so he was nervous what I would do) saying he heard I was the best around and he wanted a J pickup routed into his P bass, fresh paint job. Guess what! It was the same guy who butchered my guitar (guess he didnt last long). I was SOOOOO tempted to put a strat pickup in there instead of a JBass or something....... I bit my tongue and did the work, I never told him who I was. Because of him, I'm in this buisiness.

Great story.

I guess you decided, if you want it done right, do it yourself.

Kind of ironic that you are sort of indebted to this guy. Also goes to show that you never know what will happen in life. This is one reason why I treat everyone with respect. The law of karma seems to hold out.

At the very least, I may have put a little message at the bottom of the route though. ;)

Crazy Carl

12-24-2005, 08:36 AM

Nothing like resurrecting ancient threads, eh? ;)

I'm slowly teaching myself to build/repair/mod guitars, as I want to build/repair for a living once I retire from the Army (almost 18yrs 'in' so far).

Anywho... Started doing my own setups, 'cos I was too cheap to pay for 'em. Bought some books, some tools & went for. Turns out I wasn't too bad at it. Worked up to p/u swapping & electronics mods on guitars. Then, a few buds of mine are luthiers (both hobby & professional) & inspired me to try my hand at building (I'd always wanted to try it).

So....
(mock up, prior to paint)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/Lingenfelser/topshot.jpg
(post spray/pre buff)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/Lingenfelser/10MayGuitar001.jpg
Almost done with 'er, just need to adjust the nut & she'll be done.

Currently building a 2x12 cab (3/4" mahogany w/hand cut dovetails) & modding a bud's Hamer Scarab I- installing neck p/u, adding tone pot & 5-way, along with a complete setup/fret dress & soup to nuts polish/buff.

So, sorry for making a short story long. Love to hear some more repair stories & some tips on 'making it' in the repair biz.

sundaypunch

12-24-2005, 08:59 AM

So are any of you 70's guys going to admit to refinishing & adding humbuckers to maple neck Strats? :eek: :)

Jack Briggs

12-24-2005, 09:11 AM

Jack Briggs

12-24-2005, 09:13 AM

So are any of you 70's guys going to admit to refinishing & adding humbuckers to maple neck Strats? :eek: :)

Heck, I'll admit to building single-bucker Floydian Bastardcasters from scratch!!!:NUTS

bluesdoc

12-24-2005, 10:17 AM

Anyone remember Dana Morgan? Back in 'the day'...... ;)

jon

meangene

12-24-2005, 10:45 AM

Wow 70's! I was a mere pup of 12 years old and still playing ice hockey in 1979 when I enrolled in my first junior high woodshop class in 7th grade just outside of Detroit Michigan (Southgate to be exact) where I built my first guitar. My woodshop teacher was great, a jolly green giant guy "Mr Winickie" with a maple paddle full of lets call them velocity holes, luckily I never got smacked with it. I had one friend of mine whom we both started building guitars together, he went on to be some computer geek and I kept on building. Its very cool to see that many careers stem back to our school day fancies.

There were virtually no books or none that I found until about 11th grade and the only information I gathered was from hanging out at the local guitar repair shops such as A&R Music and M&M Music in the Down River MI area. The way I learned the most was from disecting guitars that I had bought, most never made it back together again and became Frankenfiddles or smashed during Halloween when out trick or treating dressed as none other than Ace Frehley. Although I did start doing repairs and building custom guitars for friends in high school I wasnt yet supporting myself in my found passion. During my senior year I became the woodshop teachers aid so I got to hang for 2 hours a day while only needing 5 classes to graduate, so I got to hang in the woodshop a lot to say the least.

I never did have to cook my own hide glue as Franklin was making it in liquid form, although a few early guitars proved that this form of hide glue seperated and years down the road and I had to rebuild a few or band saw them into fire wood. DOH! Got my share of lacquer fumes in there.....

Crazy Carl

12-24-2005, 02:00 PM

Nice work, Carl! I'd also love to see that cab when you get it done!:AOK

Thanks, Jack! When I finally get 'er done, I'ma box 'er up & send 'er to Roger. Mebbe he could bring it by for you to check out. I wanna send 'er 'home' for my buds to check out & tell me what they think. I'll shoot you some pics of the cab when it's done.

Probably gonna farm out the painting on the next few, as I no longer have place to spray. I did that one with rattle-can nitro in my basement storage room (in family housing on post. bet my neighbors loved me ;) ) & buffed 'er out by hand with micro mesh, then liquid polishing compound. Lotsa elbow grease in that one.

Jack Briggs

12-24-2005, 08:15 PM

Thanks, Jack! When I finally get 'er done, I'ma box 'er up & send 'er to Roger. Mebbe he could bring it by for you to check out. I wanna send 'er 'home' for my buds to check out & tell me what they think. I'll shoot you some pics of the cab when it's done.

Probably gonna farm out the painting on the next few, as I no longer have place to spray. I did that one with rattle-can nitro in my basement storage room (in family housing on post. bet my neighbors loved me ;) ) & buffed 'er out by hand with micro mesh, then liquid polishing compound. Lotsa elbow grease in that one.

Way cool, Carl. I'd love to see her. Nothin' quite as satisfying as doin' it all by hand, right mate?!?:JAM

Shades

12-24-2005, 08:54 PM

Heck, I'll admit to building single-bucker Floydian Bastardcasters from scratch!!!:NUTS Jack, in the 80's we had a term for those of us building that kind of thing.....what was that term again........oh yeah.."Working Luthier":rolleyes:

Jack Briggs

12-25-2005, 07:44 AM

Jack, in the 80's we had a term for those of us building that kind of thing.....what was that term again........oh yeah.."Working Luthier":rolleyes:

:BEER !!!!!!!

Merry Christmas!

LTE

01-02-2006, 05:54 PM

Man, what a great thread. The stories are great, funny and at times, make me cringe (namely the one about Terry dropping the neck).

I want more!

jdblax

01-05-2006, 09:13 PM

Have any of you master luthiers ever heard of Master Guitars? I posted a thread but nobody seemed to know anything about them:( , I though maybe some of the experienced builders here might. They're based in LA, and run by George Gorodnitski Anyways, dont mean to hijack, if I am, and an interesting thread indeed!

OOG

01-06-2006, 12:11 AM

OMG...that's the name! :D

Dale was a GREAT luthier, in fact I met Leo at Dale's shop...where is he now? :confused:

just saw this
beter late than never?
he moved to Oregon and drove for
UPS
thingd got a little wierd for him here

JingleJungle

01-06-2006, 04:03 PM

http://www.jjm.ch/images/guits/The_Bolt.jpg

Chris Lukasic, the builder of this very guitar passed away on December 23rd, I've just been told.
I was told that the webpage (www.jjm.ch/t-bolt.htm) did contribute some joy in his last days.

Chris - I'm just so sorry we never ever managed to talk to each other, God knows how hard I tried to get in contact with you.

Your guitar lives on - respect.

Paul