Scale Length Differences Dramatically Demonstrated

[CharAznable]

So the gig is a potential Police tribute band. Cool songs that are lots of fun to play.

But I foolishly brought a Strat to practice thinking that it's closer to what was used in the original tracks (I don't have a Tele). Well, a couple of runs through "Message In A Bottle" totally killed my left hand. My hands are small but flexible, but a whole song of this chord

x246xx

totally did me in. I had to take a break.

I get home later, and try it on my Mira which is 25 to a Strat's 25.5. No problem whatsoever.

Gotta get on stretching exercises.

[mbargav]

Great song though! Now you've got me playing it.

[David Collins]

I think you may be putting greater blame on the change in scale length it may actually deserve. The distance from the 2nd to 6th frets would differ only by about 3/32" of an inch between the two scales, which though not entirely insignificant, is not likely to account for the entire difference in fatigue either. Neck profile, fingerboard radius, and certainly to no small degree the actual setup could be responsible for more of the difference than the scale length itself.

[Help!I'maRock!]

I think you may be putting greater blame on the change in scale length it may actually deserve. The distance from the 2nd to 6th frets would differ only by about 3/32" of an inch between the two scales, which though not entirely insignificant, is not likely to account for the entire difference in fatigue either. Neck profile, fingerboard radius, and certainly to no small degree the actual setup could be responsible for more of the difference than the scale length itself.

3/32" is a long way extra for a hand to stretch. i agree that it's only one factor of many, but it is indeed a factor.

[David Collins]

That's 2x the thickness of your low E string, and that's even the distance from fret to fret. Just before the 2nd to just beyond the 5th is even less. It comes to a 2% difference.

Not saying that it's not a factor at all, but I just don't think it is likely to blame as the primary factor. There are a lot of setup factors, such as nut height (which is guaranteed to be absolute crap on a brand new Fender) which are likely to be much larger contributors.

[Help!I'maRock!]

That's 2x the thickness of your low E string, and that's even the distance from fret to fret. Just before the 2nd to just beyond the 5th is even less. It comes to a 2% difference.

Not saying that it's not a factor at all, but I just don't think it is likely to blame as the primary factor. There are a lot of setup factors, such as nut height (which is guaranteed to be absolute crap on a brand new Fender) which are likely to be much larger contributors.

i can make that stretch on my Rickenbacker 330. can't do it on my Ibanez RG with a Wizard II neck. if that's not two different ends of the spectrum with regards to spec, i don't know what is.

[teleharmonium]

I like that shape and have practiced it a lot because I used it in an original tune.

But in that particular song since it's played as arpeggios I think it makes sense to use a different left hand fingering so that the left hand doesn't have to jump around so much.

[CharAznable]

That's 2x the thickness of your low E string, and that's even the distance from fret to fret. Just before the 2nd to just beyond the 5th is even less. It comes to a 2% difference.

Not saying that it's not a factor at all, but I just don't think it is likely to blame as the primary factor. There are a lot of setup factors, such as nut height (which is guaranteed to be absolute crap on a brand new Fender) which are likely to be much larger contributors.

You might be right, but I think it's not a continuum but a threshold. There's a distance beyond which stretching becomes uncomfortable, and I think I'm hitting that when I move from PRS to fender.

But the setup also has to play a part. The PRS is basically flawless butter. I can fly on it. The Fender is, well, pretty OK for a Fender.

[David Collins]

Certainly could be. If that stretch on a 25" scale is right there at the edge of the comfort threshold to hold for long periods, I suppose .090" of an inch could push you toward the other side. "Continuum vs threshold" is probably a good way to put it.

Still, making sure the setup is as good as it can be could certainly help ease the fatigue to some extent, and even from the factory PRS guitars are generally much better at the nut than Fenders are.

[Tone_Terrific]

Exaggerated for dramatic purposes, is, perhaps, more accurate.

[straycat113]

Andy Summers uses stacked fifths in a ton of Police songs so I would reccomend you take it slow and easy at first and build up your stamina, as running through a set is going to take some getting used too. I would also have the Strat set up with the action on the low side which should make things easier, and besides there was not a lot of lead playing in the Police though Andy is a killer jazz player who can solo like a mother ------. I do not have the biggest hands but with practice stretches become easy though it would physically be impossible to get into Paul Gilbert territory lol. But no one had smaller hands than Randy Rhoads as they looked like they should of been on a ten year old and he had no limits.

[pater familias]

Play it at the 7th fret on the E-A-D strings. Saw Sting play a solo version like that using a Strat on YouTube. Sounded great.

[Blanket Jackson]

you know what they say: small hands, small _____ ..........
I never had a problem playing that tune on a strat over the course of a practice or gig.

[partsocaster]

My only though would be to relax your wrist, are you getting cramped up? Also, that sort of chord can be straining if your guitar is riding lower, putting more emphasis on the wrist again. Is your strap adjustment the same? I tend to agree that the difference in scale length is not the likely culprit here but that's just my thought.

Try bring the guitar up a little, not quite jazz height but that analogy should explain WHY they wear their guitars so high, to make complex or difficult chording easier.

[A-Bone]

you know what they say: small hands, small _____ ..........


Gloves?

[Help!I'maRock!]

you know what they say: small hands, small _____ ..........
I never had a problem playing that tune on a strat over the course of a practice or gig.

i have been told by a number of girlfriends that i have, "deceivingly small hands."

i can also stretch further than most of my students with larger hands.

play what's comfortable.

[rjpilot]

Sitting vs standing perhaps.

[teleharmonium]

Sitting vs standing perhaps.

Good point.

Also, having the guitar up high, and with the neck a bit more angled (rather than parallel to the floor) would make it easier too.

I can tell you from personal experience that this and other similar stretches get a lot easier with consistent practice. That's more of a medium term solution than short term, but, the benefits go a lot further than just being able to play that one song using the usual shapes.

[dspellman]

I have large hands (XXL). And of course, an XXL....pair of gloves.

I have no need of stretching exercises; played a piano professionally for years.
But I was intimidated by another musician once. I'd just received a stack of transcriptions of Dave Brubeck recordings and was trying out the music on my piano. Came to a part in a specific song and simply stopped. Looked at the music, looked at the piano, looked at my hands and then called the guy who did the transcriptions. "Nope, he said, that's right on the money."

As it turned out, a month or two later I had an opportunity to meet Brubeck backstage at the Hollywood Bowl. Almost the first words out of my mouth were, "Can you hold up your hands?" He laughed, and said, "Oh, did you try to play_________?" naming the very passage I'd been stumped on. He held up his hand, I put mine on it, and he was an extra knuckle beyond me on every finger. I think my next "blurt" was, "What planet are you FROM?" and he howled.

Most things done on a guitar are well within the reach of mortal humans, however. I don't think scale makes all that big a difference, unless we're talking trying to do complicated chords on a 28" scale guitar. I think technique and positioning may need to be upgraded (as has been detailed in earlier posts), but I'm not sure that 3/32nds is going to make or break anyone beyond 10 years old...

[thedroid]

So the gig is a potential Police tribute band. Cool songs that are lots of fun to play.

But I foolishly brought a Strat to practice thinking that it's closer to what was used in the original tracks (I don't have a Tele). Well, a couple of runs through "Message In A Bottle" totally killed my left hand. My hands are small but flexible, but a whole song of this chord

x246xx

totally did me in. I had to take a break.

I get home later, and try it on my Mira which is 25 to a Strat's 25.5. No problem whatsoever.

Gotta get on stretching exercises.

If you look at live footage of Sting playing it for the Secret Policeman's Other Ball, you'll see that he never really fingers the notes of the chord all at once. His pinkie is jumping down to catch the last note at the same time that he's releasing pressure on the first note to prepare to move to a different position. Also playing it slower and farther up the neck, all of which make it a bit easier. Andy, however, seems to have no problem locking his hand in that spread position, which would give me a cramp.

[6Tones]

Ive seen young artists with very small hands/build play full size classical and electric guitars on professional level so unless you have unusually small hands Id just say Practice until you get it. Wearing your guitar strap low is going to just make things harder.

[Whiskey N Beans]

Two thoughts, first try playing it x46x4x, x24x4,etc., and play the third fifth a string higher (does that make sense?). Second, try dropping your left thumb a little lower on the back of the neck. For me, this seems to alleviate some of the strain in playing the tune as Summers does. Finally, I agree feels a touch easier on the shorter scaled Gibson LP than my tele. The tele with chorus sounds more like the record.