Advice for bedroom guitarplaying

[BlaXander]

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for some advice as to a possible purchase in the future and I guess it's probably best to sketch my situation. Basically, all I have atm is my guitar and a Roland Cube 30 and I was thinking of getting something to replace the Cube. Seeing as I only play in my bedroom, I'd think that (most) tube amps would probably be too loud for being used to their full extent (but feel free to correct me here and to make suggestions) and therefore I'm looking into the digital approach. I guess I would be using it not only to replace the Cube whilst playing, but also to make some quick recordings and loops that I could play over. I'd probably be using it as a MIDI-interface as well to (try and) create some tracks.

I'm probably getting a new Macbook Pro in the near future, so I was thinking of getting Guitar Rig with the foot controller and using that as the external sound card to run Guitar Rig (and possibly Logic Pro afterwards). Does anyone have any experiences with using the controller as a sound card, for instance how is the latency? And for users of Guitar Rig in general, how do you feel the sounds hold up in comparison to other modellers on the scene, such as Amplitube, Pod HD500, ...

Seeing as my choices are still wide open and I have no experience in the digital/modelling world, would you think said solution would be a good first step, or do you guys feel that it might be better to just save up some more and cough up the extra dough to get an 11R? I guess the 11R would most likely take me away from Logic and push me more in the direction of Pro Tools? Any remarks as to which one of these might be better in my situation?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions, remarks, ...

[eman22]

Eleven Rack rocks

[JWDubois]

I've done both. I was not happy with my modelers, so I bought a Rebel 20 and some pedals. It is possible to get decent sounds out of the amp at low volumes, but it really doesn't open up until it's way to loud for my room, even though it's just a 20W amp. Anyway, it is a possible solution if you can be happy with a limited sound palette.

I finally bought a new modeler and I am much happier now. I'd take a look at the HD, 11, or the Axe if I was you.

JWW

[S Effren]

I cannot recommend the Reason Bambino amp enough. It's the best DI solution I've found. No sacrifice in dynamics recording direct into the computer. Sounds exactly like an amp should. I pissed away an obscene amount of moolah until I found this bad boy. Also has a headphone jack - a feature I always thought was kind of silly on a "real" amp...until we had a baby. It is also switcheable 8watts and 2 watts. Can still be a tad loud, but with an inefficient speaker you might be golden.

Best of luck

[Johnny N.]

There are tons of directions to go in. On the low cost end of things, the Digitech RP355 is a really cool option. I just got one and it is the first time I have really been happy with all of my stuff. I use it as a pedal in the loop of my Peavey Classic 30 and as a standalone modeller through my desktop monitors. The good thing about using it with the amp is, I can have the amp cranked enough to sound good and use the volume pedal on the RP to bring the overal level down enough not to kill me. It has a looper and drum beats, connects to the computer via usb, and has an aux line in so I can plug in my ipod or computer and play backing tracks. Pretty flexible rig on the less spendy side of things.

Most all of the rest of the modellers out there are very good and will be a matter of taste. The HD stuff seems to be the hot thing but some people are having a hard time getting what they want out of it. The Digitech RP500 and 1000 are good options. 11R is an option as well but not cheap. Is there a compatibility issue that forces you toward Pro Tools with that one?? Anyway, in any given price range, I think the stuff is usually comparable and ends up being a matter of taste. I personally think some of the higher end stuff may be overkill for the bedroom player but I am in favor of anyone supporting the economy. But a good modeller with some good monitors will sound great.

I guess another way to go is the new Fender Mustangs. Models, usb direct, supposed to sound great, and you get an amp too. The only draw back there is the lack of footswitch operation for all of the models and fx. Maybe not a big deal if you arent playing out anyway. I would definitely play one of these if I were in your situation. That way, if you do get a chance to go play or jam with some other guys, you at least can just grab the amp and go play. Straight modeller setup would be much tougher to do that with.

It is always tough to find one solution that will suit everything but those are just some thoughts. If you intend to play with others, an amp based solution may be best. If not, whatever modeller blows your skirt up and decent monitors will make you happy too.

[Will Chen]

I suggest you figure out why exactly the Cube doesn't serve your needs and address it. Fro example, can you answer these questions:

Is it loud enough?
Does it provide you enough effect variety?
Does it address your core tonal needs, if not in what areas does it fail?
Do you most often play though the amp's speaker or headphones and which is more important?
Do you ever plan to gig?
What's your budget?

[BlaXander]

Thanks everyone for the replies so far. To answer your questions, Will:

Is it loud enough?
Yes, more than actually.

Does it provide you enough effect variety?
No, one of the reasons that I'd like to go digital/modelling is that it would give me sort of an all-in-one solution for more variety both in amount of amp models and effects.

Does it address your core tonal needs, if not in what areas does it fail?
I guess I'm not that disappointed in the core tone of it, but I'd like to try something else that would also allow me to do the other things I've stated such as recording loops and adding effects.

Do you most often play though the amp's speaker or headphones and which is more important?
I play through the speaker, but I seldom crank it higher than 3 or so.

Do you ever plan to gig?
At this very moment I have no such plans. Never say never, but as things are I'd call it highly unlikely.

What's your budget?
Well, like everyone I don't want to waste money, so less is better, but I guess I'd be able to spend around a 1000 euros. Taking into account that everything is priced quite a bit higher here in Europe (for instance, you can find an 11R for 700$ in USA, but in Europe, you're looking at 850 euros), I guess you could compare that with 900-1000$.

[guitarnet70]

Looking at you budget and needs I would consider getting an HD500 and a pair of decent studio monitors, this would combine well with a computer recording system (you're going to need monitors anyway if you go down that road).

[Julia343]

I've got to tell you something about 11R. You cannot adjust patches on your computer unless you are running Pro Tools LE, or 9. This means that unless you decide to use Pro Tools, you have to do your patch settings on the unit. The unit sounds really nice, but it's that proprietary crap the put me off. See, I already have M-Powered, and am moving to Presonus Studio One Pro because it's easier to use for VIs, and I cannot get the full use out of the 11R in Studio One. Also the editor doesn't run in PT M-Powered, and I'd have to load up LE or 9 or whatever it comes with these days. I don't really see a need to pay for another copy of something I already have, and don't forget it's part of the price of the unit. You get yourself locked into Avid stuff.

Seriously look at other gear unless you really want to go with Pro Tools.

That's one reason I went with the HD 500. Grab that and get yourself a decent pair of monitors, and an interface, and you'll be fine. For practice loops and stuff Garageband will be fine.

[Elric]

Something like a Roland Cube 30 would be a good fit for your situation.

[guitarnet70]

and an interface...

Why an interface, Julia? The HD is an interface, and for home recording it is good enough. I agree that for pro use you need something better, but it does not seems to be the case of the OP...

[A-Bone]

Hi everyone,

Basically, all I have atm is my guitar and a Roland Cube 30 and I was thinking of getting something to replace the Cube.


Something like a Roland Cube 30 would be a good fit for your situation.

Maybe you were being funny in a deadpan way.

[arthur rotfeld]

If you want a tube amp, there are really nice low watt Fender style amps out there.

I have a 9w Princeton-type. Sounds great at very low volumes (great at gigs and loud too). There are some 5w out there too. If you like clean Fenders, there's plenty that sound great at 1-2 volume.

[scotchtape800]

Something like a Roland Cube 30 would be a good fit for your situation.

:) This one made me chuckle.

[winstabull]

I've got to tell you something about 11R. You cannot adjust patches on your computer unless you are running Pro Tools LE, or 9. This means that unless you decide to use Pro Tools, you have to do your patch settings on the unit. The unit sounds really nice, but it's that proprietary crap the put me off. See, I already have M-Powered, and am moving to Presonus Studio One Pro because it's easier to use for VIs, and I cannot get the full use out of the 11R in Studio One. Also the editor doesn't run in PT M-Powered, and I'd have to load up LE or 9 or whatever it comes with these days. I don't really see a need to pay for another copy of something I already have, and don't forget it's part of the price of the unit. You get yourself locked into Avid stuff.

Seriously look at other gear unless you really want to go with Pro Tools.

That's one reason I went with the HD 500. Grab that and get yourself a decent pair of monitors, and an interface, and you'll be fine. For practice loops and stuff Garageband will be fine.

You are 100% right about the PT/11R integration and I can understand being upset that if you already have PT. No standalone editor is a pretty major disadvantage.

But, if you have a fairly up to date computer, you can easily install PT LE and just fire it up when you want to use the graphical editor. After all, a standalone editor is a piece of software you install on your computer, same as PT. I am unaware of any conflicts that would prevent one from loading 2 DAWs provided you have the disk space, but that doesn't mean such conflicts don't exist...

I made the switch from Reaper to PT when I bought the 11R. Now that I have worked in PT awhile I want to load up Reaper again and see if I miss PT or not.

[Julia343]

I'd also take a look at the Fender Mustang series. They did a good job on this. Check the 112 and 212 versions.

[Robert Burns]

Well all my playing is in a 14' x 11' bedroom, and im running a 200 watt
stereo amp...through an AXE Ultra, with a VHT 4/12 cab, and 2 2x12 Crate cabs about 7 feet apart... Sure sometimes i want the neighbors
to hear my greatness! But i can rock out at the same volume as you do
even with this much balls behind me... Tons of tone at low bedroom volumes.. .:)

[SteveO]

Well all my playing is in a 14' x 11' bedroom, and im running a 200 watt
stereo amp...through an AXE Ultra, with a VHT 4/12 cab, and 2 2x12 Crate cabs about 7 feet apart... Sure sometimes i want the neighbors
to hear my greatness! But i can rock out at the same volume as you do
even with this much balls behind me... Tons of tone at low bedroom volumes.. .:)

No gear in my bedroom, but I have a wet/dry/wet setup in my living room with a Mesa Mark V in the center and a MosValve pushing the wet cabs. It does loud really, really well, but it also does quiet really, really well. I think that having a larger spread of speakers fills a room better at low volume than having everything come out of one speaker. Because of my work schedule I am generally up at 3AM on my days off, and quiet is pretty important in those early-morning hours. Well, it is to my neighbors, anyway!

[BlaXander]

Thanks everyone for the comments so far.

The fact that the 11R can only be edited through to PT is indeed one factor that was putting me off as well, but as said, maybe it isn't that big of a burden to just quickly boot up PT when you want to edit and then just use your favourite DAW for the rest of the recording and editing duties?

Seeing as I don't really have any DAW atm, I guess I don't have the problem of paying for PT twice.

Well all my playing is in a 14' x 11' bedroom, and im running a 200 watt
stereo amp...through an AXE Ultra, with a VHT 4/12 cab, and 2 2x12 Crate cabs about 7 feet apart... Sure sometimes i want the neighbors
to hear my greatness! But i can rock out at the same volume as you do
even with this much balls behind me... Tons of tone at low bedroom volumes.. .:)

Yeah, the Axe Ultra seems great, but If I'm going digital, I guess that atm I'd like to have an all in one recording solution with a MIDI interface and integrated soundcard and if I'm not mistaken the Axe doesn't offer that. Also, it's a bit more than I'd like to spend, especially if you still have to buy a power amp and a cab.

Thanks again for the replies and please keep the comments, ideas, thoughts, ... coming.

[Rod]

I cannot recommend the Reason Bambino amp enough. It's the best DI solution I've found. No sacrifice in dynamics recording direct into the computer. Sounds exactly like an amp should. I pissed away an obscene amount of moolah until I found this bad boy. Also has a headphone jack - a feature I always thought was kind of silly on a "real" amp...until we had a baby. It is also switcheable 8watts and 2 watts. Can still be a tad loud, but with an inefficient speaker you might be golden.

Best of luck

My choice as well!,

[Axe-Man]

I've got to tell you something about 11R. You cannot adjust patches on your computer unless you are running Pro Tools LE, or 9. This means that unless you decide to use Pro Tools, you have to do your patch settings on the unit. The unit sounds really nice, but it's that proprietary crap the put me off. See, I already have M-Powered, and am moving to Presonus Studio One Pro because it's easier to use for VIs, and I cannot get the full use out of the 11R in Studio One. Also the editor doesn't run in PT M-Powered, and I'd have to load up LE or 9 or whatever it comes with these days. I don't really see a need to pay for another copy of something I already have, and don't forget it's part of the price of the unit. You get yourself locked into Avid stuff.

Seriously look at other gear unless you really want to go with Pro Tools.

That's one reason I went with the HD 500. Grab that and get yourself a decent pair of monitors, and an interface, and you'll be fine. For practice loops and stuff Garageband will be fine.

Huh?

What difference does this make?

It's the easiest modeler to work with via the front panel and it is MUCH better to edit than the HD series. Many users can't even bring themselves to use the HD500 via the interface but the 11R is just simplicity itself.

It also sounds noticably better than the HD series.

You get PT and a whole swag of FX, samples and other gear. If you don't use it, setup a lightweight PT setup and just run the 11R editor. It prob takes as long to load as the HD editor.

The HD500 is a great unit for the money but it just sounds decent IMO. I've tried the HD300 and own HD500 and the 11R and even without the expansion pack it is a much better, more natural sounding unit. The HD is great for midi, some FX and into a poweramp but it sounds a bit average (IMHO) direct. I actually don't like to use it direct for anything other than cleans...just my op but...

Seriously look at other gear unless you really want to go with Pro Tools.

Why?

For $699 in the states and a grand in Aus, it sounds much better than anything else in it's price range.

Honestly, what would you like the OP to look at?

[eman22]

11R and a pair of good studio monitors (I use yamaha h50m).......the absolute ultimate bedroom rock setup.......even the h50m monitors can get pretty loud for times when you want a bit more volume.

and Frankly, I like pro-tools as a recording interface......works great.....

with the new 11R expansion pack.....its pure joy !!!!!

I've even got a bass guitar on the way for demo tracking.......(I've been using all kinds of other less than correct options to get bass sounds to play over and the 11R now has a GREAT bass amp/cab/mic sim built in)

Couple the above with a bunch of great drum loops (which I have) and I am a one man band in a box (bedroom).

[stratzrus]

I'd suggest getting an Axe FX Standard used.

It would be ideal for your situation.

[BlaXander]

I'd suggest getting an Axe FX Standard used.

It would be ideal for your situation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that you couldn't use the Axe FX as a audio interface to your computer?

Also, wouldn't it require me to buy a power amp and a cab, because as far as I know it doesn't have a headphone out?

[gurumonkey]

before you go spending a ton of money, seriously check out a Mustang I. It's light, it's grab and go, it's got some seriously good sounding stuff on it, comes with a really cool GUI, and is an interface. Best part? $99. oh, and i realize that it's too light for most people, but it also comes with a simple version of ableton live, enough to lay down some guitar tracks and add a bit of midi. And it comes with a simple version of amplitube Unbelievable value there. Honestly, go check it out in a local store, everyone has them. But with the money you save and the ability to loop stuff (ableton live is amazing for those that learn to use it), you could still buy one of the premier guitar plug ins and use it for additional tones.

Reading your post a bit further in you mention not having enough effects, and the mustang won't be a killer option for that, but once again to upgrade to amplitube fender edition is $99. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AmpliTubeFen/ you can see the list of stuff there.

The only real thing to be concerned with is that the mustang is a 1 way interface. it will get your guitar into your computer, but it won't get the computer noise back to the amp. you can however, but an 1/8" aux cable and put it in the aux in of the amp, but keep in mind that it won't be full range.

I'd be happy to discuss any of this in more detail, but it's shockingly awesome for shockingly cheap.

[Elric]

Maybe you were being funny in a deadpan way.

Yes. I was shooting for sort of a funny but "zen" kind of response.

Thinking that in considering the humor/absurdity of the response, the OP might more fully examine exactly what his motivations are for embarking up the GAS slippery slope by replacing a tool that is for the most part a pretty good one and for the most part has been designed for exactly his situation. Don't get me wrong, there may be good reasons but looking before leaping into the tone chasing/gear trap is well advised, IMHO, and to be honest the Cube 30 sounds like a decent option for what he wants to do. :)

[jlynnb1]

Eleven Rack, hands down...

[weathertite]

Eleven rack and powered monitor.... Interface, headphone out, PT recording, EFX, variety of amp models. Just my .02.... Digital can be a deep deep rabbit hole to wonder into... Just the nature of an obsession....:dude

Ed
:drown

[BSHARP]

Tons of choices for the bedroom. The best thing to do is try out a few. I prefer to have both modelers and modeling amps. This covers all the posibilities. Big amps with either a good master volume or an attenuator work and there are so many good cheap small amps out there too. BOSS, Peavey, Line 6, Digitech, Marshall, Vox and Fender all have options in the lower price range. There are some very cool low wattage tube amps too. What works best for you is up to you.

[rezidentura]

I've got a Ipad 1 and I just bought Garageband. I think this thing has some pretty tasty tones. I'm having trouble with high gain stuff but I think if I purchase the Ampkit from peavey this may eliminate this (I have irig right now). Since your thinking of getting a Macbook pro you could almost just buy the ampkit and go into garageband and have a pretty nice setup for playing/practicing recording. Unless you want some more professional stuff.

[aaronbarnes]

I'd check out a G-DEC3, play over some loops and dig on some cool tones.

[jimification]

As others have said, you can edit the 11 just fine on the front panel.

I have an 11 and I don't use PT. I use Ableton and I edit the Eleven on the front panel. In fact, even on the rare occasions when I DO have PT fired up (just for saving and loading patches from an external library) I still use the front panel - the controls are very well laid out and nice to use....there's really no reason to edit your patches on pc!

...the 11 also sounds *killer* but, most importantly, it does that playing response / feel thing REALLY well.