Making a Variax feel like a guitar?

[Eric Pykala]

I've been playing my Variax for about a year-and-a-half now, and while I still appreciate the technology, I freakin' HATE the way it feels. I guess I've just gotten spoiled by playing "real" guitars. I've tried a number of tricks on the neck to make it feel a bit more friendly, but it's kinda like giving a bandaid to a guy headed for the guillotine. I've also looked at doing the Warmoth thing, but cringe at the thought of investing lots more money in a guitar that goes down in value dramatically every time I look at it.
Has anyone found anything that helps? The Japanese 700 is built better, but darned if I'm making the same mistake twice. I've priced-out doing a Warmoth Tele with a real neck and some cool magnetic pickups, just so I can justify the dough by ending-up with a "new" guitar with some unique sounds other than the stuff in Variax. Nice idea, but putting another grand+ into a guitar that if I ever had to resell it would garner $500 doesn't seem quite sane. I walked into this situation fully aware of the "computer as an investment" oxymoron, but its utility value has been the only thing stopping me from just taking the hit and dumping it. I'm sure there are others like me around; any suggestions? -Eric

[Eric Pykala]

...and yes, I read the whole institute of noise marathon post. I was almost tempted to do it myself, as I've built a number of fine guitars, but after Warmoth came out with a factory rout for the guts I realized life is too short (besides, I fix guitars for a living; busman's holiday).
C'mon you enablers, what have I missed? -Eric

[tms13pin]

I think you have to weigh the personal value of positive use vs.
resale in cases like this. If you can't stand your Variax the way
it is, it isn't doing you a lot of good and is probably inhibiting
your creativity. If you build something that YOU will enjoy, then
don't think of your build in terms of selling the guitar in the
future, think of it in terms of how it will work for you now.

Think of your guitar more like your car than your house. Tough
to do around here with all the members of the "QUE" (the
boutiQUE cliQUE) but many of these fancy axes aren't
commanding in resale what folks paid for them (most
Andersons, etc.). How many cars have you sold or traded in
a couple years later for what you paid for them?

Something like the Variax is more like a multi f/x pedal or
modeling amp than a vintage strat or LP. How much are
most multi f/x boxes worth a year later?

If you put some thought into your build, the guitar will do more
than just the Variax stuff anyway.

--Tom

[Klatu]

If you buy the Warmoth neck, you wouldn't be loosing any money becuase you could always reinstall the original neck and use the Warmoth neck for another guitar.

The neck is the most important part of the guitar to me, and I would try the Warmoth option if I were in your shoes.

[Scott Peterson]

I had a 500 and hated it. Really hated it. I ordered a Warmoth Strat Variax body and a neck. Then I had an offer to get a 700 and I sold my 500 (did I tell you I HATED it yet?) and got a 700 Hardtail. I canceled my Warmoth order (but the neck was done, so I actually still have it in a box :D).

Night and day. I actually like the 700 as an instrument. Well made, after some work and a setup it plays great. I enjoy playing it.

Get to a store and try one out.

I would also second the poster that mentions just getting a neck to your specs and trying that.

[DigitalTube]

Why doesn't Line 6 pack all those electronics in a box, and let us use whatever guitar we want?
Obviously we'd need a special pickup, but that woud be a much better option than having to use their guitars, no?
E.B.

[Ldavey]

I've had my Variax 500 from around the time it was featured on the cover of GP. I'd guess I'm the exception, I'm okay, maybe even fine with the neck. But I recently went ahead with the change of tuners that many have suggested, to the Planet Waves, and I can feel and hear a difference in some of the sounds. Again, maybe it's just me, but the Gibson LP sounds, seem to have a bit more sustain and life.
Anyway, even though I paid more than they're asking now for the 500, I don't regret having bought it when I did.
Larry

[Riscchip]

Originally posted by H-2
Why doesn't Line 6 pack all those electronics in a box, and let us use whatever guitar we want?
Obviously we'd need a special pickup, but that woud be a much better option than having to use their guitars, no?
E.B.

Amen. I'd be all over that. Love the technology, hate the guitars.

[bluesdoc]

I got my 500 when they came out, put Planet Waves tuners on it and used it for a year, on and off. Even gigged with it. Now, whenever I pick it up, aside from the feel issue, I just can't get it to sound alive like my strats (or CU22). It sounds good, interesting, but not alive. I'd use it for special eff, acoustic sounds, etc, but for electric guitar sounds, it doesn't come close to my 'real' guitars. Lord knows I've tried................. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

It just stays on the wall, waiting.......................... for what, I'm not sure..... :confused:

jon

edit - my relevant point is that I considered making a tele or strat version of my V/ax and canned it because it just doesn't sound good enough to warrant the time and money investment. Just my impression......

[Eric Pykala]

Thanks for the input guys! Swapping out the neck was the first thing I thought of, but the Vax neck bolts are on slightly different centers, so if I wanted to use it on an axe with a Strat-compatible neck pocket I would have to dowel and redrill the neck. While I do this all the time on other folks' guitars, I strongly feel that on my instruments I want the screws going into virgin wood. Fender-style guitars are all about neck-to-body fit.
13pin: just the type of answer I thought I'd get on this board, you enabler you! Right now, I only use the Vax for acoustic sounds (and my synth pickup is mounted on it), so this whole scenario may change when my PRS HBII AP piezo arrives (sure ain't putting the synth pickup on that!). Since I'd still need a platform for the synth, making a nice Tele for it might be the answer. I was thinking of doing one with completely different sounds, like maybe TV Jones Filtertrons or HD Z90s, with just a master volume where a LP switch would be and a mini 3-way on the treble side bout. Much easier to justify the bucks when you get a unique new guitar out of it, and to hell with resale value. This scenario is coming truer by the moment.
Still interested in any other spins you folks may have, but thanks all for your help. I feel the darkside creeping in...-Eric

[Swampash]

Originally posted by bluesdoc
I got my 500 when they came out, put Planet Waves tuners on it and used it for a year, on and off. Even gigged with it. Now, whenever I pick it up, aside from the feel issue, I just can't get it to sound alive like my strats (or CU22). It sounds good, interesting, but not alive. I'd use it for special eff, acoustic sounds, etc, but for electric guitar sounds, it doesn't come close to my 'real' guitars. Lord knows I've tried................. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

It just stays on the wall, waiting.......................... for what, I'm not sure..... :confused:

jon

edit - my relevant point is that I considered making a tele or strat version of my V/ax and canned it because it just doesn't sound good enough to warrant the time and money investment. Just my impression...... Hey DOC,

Have you upgraded your guitar's firmware up to the 3.0 level yet? It makes a profound difference..in a good way. :cool:

[Swampash]

Originally posted by H-2
Why doesn't Line 6 pack all those electronics in a box, and let us use whatever guitar we want?
Obviously we'd need a special pickup, but that woud be a much better option than having to use their guitars, no?
E.B. They did....it's called a Variax 300 :D

[Orren]

Originally posted by Swampash
They did....it's called a Variax 300 :D

I have honestly thought about getting one just to yank the electronics. :) But does anyone know how much room they take up? Can you yank the electronics from the 300 and still have room for a tremolo bridge, other electronics, etc?

Orren

[Scott Peterson]

Originally posted by Orren
I have honestly thought about getting one just to yank the electronics. :) But does anyone know how much room they take up? Can you yank the electronics from the 300 and still have room for a tremolo bridge, other electronics, etc?

Orren

The electronics on the 300 are all under the pickguard.

[Orren]

Originally posted by Scott Peterson
The electronics on the 300 are all under the pickguard.

Good to know! But that only sorta kinda answers my question. :) I guess you have all that wood above the guitar strings without a pickguard, but the pickguard takes up most of the guitar:

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/51/511672.jpg

Could you still fit a mid boost, etc. in that cavity? Since the pickguard goes under the strings, could you still fit springs for a tremolo, etc?

Inquiring minds want to know... ;)

Take care,
Orren

[bluestein]

Pictures of the 300 electronics (http://www.vettaville.com/variax300pics2.htm)

[MOJO]

you could throw one of these together;)

:eek:

http://www.guitaristjeffmiller.com/mods10.htm

[daddyo]

That Jeff Miller is one talented guy. Plays and builds great guitars.

[sonicparke]

Originally posted by MOJO
you could throw one of these together;)

:eek:

http://www.guitaristjeffmiller.com/mods10.htm


That's too stinkin' cool...I like it.

[Tone_Terrific]

Originally posted by MOJO
you could throw one of these together;)

:eek:

http://www.guitaristjeffmiller.com/mods10.htm

Crikey! That guy is good!

[Eric Pykala]

Kudos to Jeff Miller! This really got me off the Warmoth idea, because if I WAS willing to put-in the time, I could do it from scratch for about the same price. Unfortunately, my entire full-on woodshop is currently in storage, leaving me with just the facilities of a well-equipped repair shop. However, talk about getting the ideas flowing in a new direction!
There's some solace/solidarity in hearing how many other people share my dislike of the physical guitar. Other ideas? You folks just rule!-Eric

[MOJO]

Originally posted by Eric Pykala
Kudos to Jeff Miller! This really got me off the Warmoth idea, because if I WAS willing to put-in the time, I could do it from scratch for about the same price. Unfortunately, my entire full-on woodshop is currently in storage, leaving me with just the facilities of a well-equipped repair shop. However, talk about getting the ideas flowing in a new direction!
There's some solace/solidarity in hearing how many other people share my dislike of the physical guitar. Other ideas? You folks just rule!-Eric


Eric, not sure if you've seen this site.so i'll pass it along..just in case

they sell templates for the Variax system as well as a number of
popular guitars

http://www.guitarbuildingtemplates.com/electricguitar.htm

[tms13pin]

Eric--

This is why I play Roland-ready axes and use the VG stuff.
All of my 13-pin axes are REAL guitars and are great on their
own. Plus with Graphtech's GHOST system out now, you can
fit many guitars with a very nice piezo system (probably the
best out there now) and 13-pin without de-valuing the guitar
(realistically, as long as it is a players axe, not a collectable).

The VG-88 really sounds great, IMO, and you get all the
access to the synth stuff too, and the outboard technology
can change and be upgraded without messing with your
guitar. Line 6 needs to get this stuff out of the guitar.

I have a couple of early Roland 24-pin axes too. The whole
reason Roland switched to the 13-pin stuff was to allow folks
to use their own guitars with the technology. They were losing
out by having people have to buy a separate guitar. Line 6
should make Variax hardware with 13-pin input. I don't know
what would be involved with Roland to make something like
this happen, or if Roland even has any "claim" on the 13-pin
format (do they get kickbacks from RMC and Graphtech??),
but it seems to me this would make a lot of sense given the
13-pin place in the market right now, and more and more
manufacturers building axes with this format already on-board.

--Tom

[webe123]

Originally posted by tms13pin
Eric--

This is why I play Roland-ready axes and use the VG stuff.
All of my 13-pin axes are REAL guitars and are great on their
own. Plus with Graphtech's GHOST system out now, you can
fit many guitars with a very nice piezo system (probably the
best out there now) and 13-pin without de-valuing the guitar
(realistically, as long as it is a players axe, not a collectable).

The VG-88 really sounds great, IMO, and you get all the
access to the synth stuff too, and the outboard technology
can change and be upgraded without messing with your
guitar. Line 6 needs to get this stuff out of the guitar.

I have a couple of early Roland 24-pin axes too. The whole
reason Roland switched to the 13-pin stuff was to allow folks
to use their own guitars with the technology. They were losing
out by having people have to buy a separate guitar. Line 6
should make Variax hardware with 13-pin input. I don't know
what would be involved with Roland to make something like
this happen, or if Roland even has any "claim" on the 13-pin
format (do they get kickbacks from RMC and Graphtech??),
but it seems to me this would make a lot of sense given the
13-pin place in the market right now, and more and more
manufacturers building axes with this format already on-board.

--Tom


Yeah, but this is TWO DIFFERENT TECHNOLOGIES we are talking about here! Would I like a variax and a roland 13 pin in one? Sure! But I am not a luthier and do not know how much wood you would have to remove to make such a beast.

But I don't think that the variax technology should just be done away with either as you suggest. I have a Roland GR-33 and a 81.13 Brian Moore 13 pin guitar with the RMC pickup in it , but I am also wanting to get a variax. Have you ever even played a variax or heard the sounds comming out of one from a line 6 vetta II amp? They sound awesome.

So I really don't see the point in doing away with the variax technology as it is totally different than Roland's.

[Orren]

Originally posted by webe123
Yeah, but this is TWO DIFFERENT TECHNOLOGIES we are talking about here! Would I like a variax and a roland 13 pin in one? Sure! But I am not a luthier and do not know how much wood you would have to remove to make such a beast.

I would imagine it actually wouldn't take that much extra wood to be removed (over and above a variax conversion) as the RMC and Graph Tech circuit boards are small enough to (nearly) fit in a normal-large control cavity.

However, since you'd basically need to split the wire off each piezo saddle into two circuit boards, I'm imagining that there would be issues of noise and/or signal degredation to deal with. Not saying that these couldn't be dealt with, I'll bet a luthier who really new electronics could do it, and do a great job. But I think you're looking at a limited number of luthiers who would not only understand, but enjoy taking on such a project.

But yeah, if I had the money, it sounds like a fun combination! :)

Orren

[tms13pin]

Someone in the know want to explain the Variax technology
to me? I'm very familiar with the VG modeling technology,
I doubt the modeling the Variax is doing is that much different.
Granted, the GR is a different animal. It is also VERY different
than the VG.

BTW, I teach EE at a university, so feel free to be as technical
in your explaination as you like. (This is not meant as an
arrogant statement, simply that DSP and circuits are my
areas, and I'm really into modeling stuff, so I'd sincerely
like to know/understand what they're doing that is different
than Roland... thanks!)

--Tom

[tms13pin]

Originally posted by webe123
Yeah, but this is TWO DIFFERENT TECHNOLOGIES we are talking about here! Would I like a variax and a roland 13 pin in one? Sure! But I am not a luthier and do not know how much wood you would have to remove to make such a beast.

But I don't think that the variax technology should just be done away with either as you suggest. I have a Roland GR-33 and a 81.13 Brian Moore 13 pin guitar with the RMC pickup in it , but I am also wanting to get a variax. Have you ever even played a variax or heard the sounds comming out of one from a line 6 vetta II amp? They sound awesome.

So I really don't see the point in doing away with the variax technology as it is totally different than Roland's.

I never suggested that Variax technology be "done away with
altogether". I simply suggested that they take it "out of the
guitar" so that I could plug into it with my own axe rather than
having to use theirs.

I still fail to see how the Variax is "different technology" than
a Roland VG unit.

No, I haven't played a Variax yet. Have you played a VG-88v2?

How much is a vetta II? $1700? A VG88v2 is around $600.
A VGA-7 is under $600 now. But it came out 4-5 years ago.
The Vetta II will be there in 2 years too. This is no slam on
Line 6's tones, I'm sure they're great. But all these units are
subject to the computer age.... obsolete in no time as the
"latest rage" moves on, but IMO, still very useable when the
price tag drops substantially... that's when I buy! :D

The thing I love about my Roland-ready axes though is that
I'll be able to use them for years with whatever the next wave
of guitar/amp modeling is that comes along, and even better,
I can develop my own gadgets to plug them into because I've
got a hex out on them. And to boot, they're kick ass guitars on
their own (Brian Moore C90p.13, Gadow Custom Hollow, Godin
LGX-T, Carvin Holdsworth Fatboy).

I can even plug them into a Vetta II straight up! :D

--Tom

[Orren]

Originally posted by tms13pin
Someone in the know want to explain the Variax technology
to me? I'm very familiar with the VG modeling technology,
I doubt the modeling the Variax is doing is that much different.
Granted, the GR is a different animal. It is also VERY different
than the VG.

BTW, I teach EE at a university, so feel free to be as technical
in your explaination as you like. (This is not meant as an
arrogant statement, simply that DSP and circuits are my
areas, and I'm really into modeling stuff, so I'd sincerely
like to know/understand what they're doing that is different
than Roland... thanks!)

--Tom

Hi Tom. I'm sure there's no way in hell I could get as technical as you, since I'm just a once (and probably future) college English instructor. But I write pro audio books and articles for magazines, so I guess I know "pop tech." ;) I also am a RMC and Graph Tech 13-pin system owner, and previously owned a VG-88 which I used live. So lets see if I can make any sense of this for you:

First of all, you are correct. VG and Variax technology do essentially similar processes: they take the 6 electrical signals from a piezo pickup and use DSP algorithms to shape the signals similarly to the EQ signatures of specific guitar/pickup combinations. Since each string is transmitted seperately to the DSP "brain" the strings can also be seperately detuned, and/or models created that have different processing per string (such as a 12-string, in which the lowest four strings are partnered with higher octave strings and the high E and B are simply doubled).

The main difference, however, is in the focus of the different technologies. Roland wants the VG-8/88 to be the entire guitar chain--guitar, amp, effects, speaker cabinet. As such, it's DSP power is divided among many different processes and each area that is modeled is optimized to leave room for the DSP required by the rest of the chain. The Variax is completely focused on reproducing stringed instruments only, requiring you to buy a Vetta if you want to "complete the chain" that the VG models. This does mean, however, that 100% of the Variax's onboard DSP is dedicated to nothing but modeling stringed instruments. This means that its models can offer more parameters (if you have the Workbench software) and can model more aspects of the target instrument (the effect of the volume and tone, the toggle switch, etc).

Also, because the Variax is onboard, not in a floorbox, *theoretically* it can have a lower latency. I'm not sure about this, I never measured. Either way, it's too low for me to notice. :)

Also, there is the subjective issue of "playability." The Variax technology was designed to be accessible from the guitar itself, not requiring a footpedal. Does this matter? From a technological standpoint, latency not withstanding, no. But from a player's perspective, some players may prefer to have all the models instantly available from a single dial right on the instrument. Roland 13-pin systems can offer S1/S2 buttons, but little else in the way of onboard control; certainly, I've never seen a system that allows for some 20+ "presets" to be accessible via turning a dial.

Finally, there is the issue of sound quality. I'm not a Variax expert, so I'm not intimately familiar with all their models. I'm sure they're somewhat hit and miss, just like the VG system. I really liked, for example, the humbucker and 12 string sounds on the VG, but I found when you detuned the strings it began to get "unreal" sounding pretty quickly (which I've also heard happens on the Variax). But anyway, this is also subjective.

Anyway, I hope this lays out some of the differences for you. I also would like to be able to take the variax hardware out of the Line 6 guitar, both because I don't like the feel of their guitar when I picked it up...and because I'm a lefty. :) Of course, I'd also like a rackmounted VG-88, not a floorpedal, but that's another story.

One day, we'll all be plugging into laptops anyway... ;)

Orren

[tms13pin]

Thanks for the post Orren. So the Variax just does the
"guitar modeling", not the "amp modeling" then?

The DSP issue is a non-issue in my book. DSP's just get more
and more powerful. I have no idea of the relative sizes of the
DSPs used in the VG vs. the Variax, but with faster DSPs
coming every year, I have no doubt that a whole VG unit
could fit inside the guitar. In a year you'll be able to fit the
while Vetta and Variax inside a guitar too, if you can't already.
Well, not the power amp and speakers!:)

So the issue to me seems to be, how much of all of this do you
really *need* on the guitar? I'm guessing that most Vetta
users still want the floorboard. I'm also guessing this floorboard
is at least the same size as the VG unit. It doesn't seem that
one is getting away from the floor unit by going with the
complete Line 6 system. The tradeoff then seems to be maybe
a couple more controls right on the guitar vs. playing guitars
that are really quality instruments. I don't know right now,
but I'd venture to guess if this is the way it stays, that the
Variax will soon be a relic.

There isn't a latency issue with the VG. The signals coming out
of the 13-pin jack are analog, not digital. They're hitting the
VG unit as fast as the signal from your regular 1/4" guitar jack
is hitting your regular amp. If the Variax out is digi to the
Vetta, then there is some timing involved, and this won't change
with an upgrade in the amp model end. Now, latency in the
GR is there, but this is for a totally different reason that we
can discuss in another thread, because the GR is as different
from the VG as it is from the Variax.

Let me re-iterate that I'm not dissing the Variax here. I've not
played it, and tone is what matters. If the Variax delivers here,
especially combined with the Vetta, then it's a win. Maybe even
worth the $2500 (or thereabouts) for the whole system (guitar
and amp). But the original post had Eric complaining about the
guitar itself. My only point is that everything starts with the
player at the guitar. If s/he is unhappy there, then the thing
won't last long. I think Roland realized this with the early
GRs and went to the GK pickups as a result. The advancing
piezo technology made doing it this way even better.

Remember those Casio MIDI guitars? They tried to get the
latency of the pitch-to-MIDI stuff down by putting it all into one
axe. They're gone. Brian Moore even tried this with the dot5
models (C90p.5, etc.), but they're gone now too.

What Line 6 needs is for the Variax system to be heavily
embraced. If so, then other guitar manufacturers will see to it
that installing the electronics on their guitars is an option. But
if Line 6 doesn't make the system adaptable with the times so
it doesn't become obsolete, then your asking people to invest
in a guitar that may become obsolete, which I think is what
Eric was initially concerned about.

The tradeoff of getting the techology "away from the guitar"
is the sacrifice you make to keep the instrument useable
for many years. As Roland (for better or worse) has established
the 13-pin config as kind of a standard for hex guitar, coupled
with the fact that this jack sends analog signals to the external
processor, makes this interface useable for many, many years
and perhaps with many more products (a Variax box too!) if
manufacturers can just work it out to have these inputs on
their gear. Why should they succumb to Roland? Well, you
can either try to beat 'em (not likely, at least where the
interface is concerned) or join 'em. Roland's been in this biz of
poly-guitar longer than anyone, or at least has been the most
major player, so like Fender and Gibson and Marshall in their
own niches, Roland has set the the standards in this one.

The older 24-pin Roland interface had more signals being
output from the instrument. You had more knobs to control
things. Again, the electronics weren't really in the guitar to do
the synth stuff or pitch tracking, just preamps for the hex
pickup. The analog signals came out through the connector
as well as control voltages from some pots that could
potentially be assigned to anything one wished (though they
had specific functions on the synth units). But Roland screwed
up here and didn't use a commonly found 24-pin connector.
Now those cables are like gold because the connectors are
no longer made. The 13-pin connector is standard DIN.

Personally, I'm not married to Roland, just the 13-pin output on
the guitars. I'd LOVE to see a bunch of other manufacturers
building modeling and synth hardware for polyphonic guitar,
give Roland some competition, the way they have been for
amp modeling since the VG8 first hit the streets in '95 or '96.
But having a standard for the connector into all of this stuff
is a must to make it successful for anyone, just like the MIDI
connector has become. It may not be the best thing one could
think of, but even now that it could be much better, it is so
ingrained in gear that changing it will be tough. At the time
though in '83, it made interconnectability of many manufacturer's
gear possible.

Brian Moore's new thing is this USB guitar output. Haven't
checked that out yet. Only available on the iGuitars though.

Sorry for the long-winded post. :rolleyes: This is a subject near
and dear to my heart. Vintage gear is great, and I'm a big
analog and tube guy deep down, but I'm also a gadget-head,
so hex-guitar systems ROCK to me! :dude

--Tom

[MikeyG]

stumbled on this a little late ....

I'm very interested in getting something done like on Jeff Miller's Site, at that quality level.... (those guitars are gorgeous!). Trouble is finding someone who knows the electronics side, as well as the luthiery side.

[Eric Pykala]

Wow, this has really turned into something. When I first got Variax I immediately did some research into splitting the hex signals so the Vax electronics and the 13-pin stuff could be used simultaneously. I can't see either Line 6 or Roland wanting to exchange technology; both are notorious in the industry for wanting to sell you ONLY their stuff. This leaves only the experimenters (unless there's a company out there that does this stuff and I've just never heard of it).
Ideal world: Ghost or Baggs or whoever offers their hex pickups terminating in a ribbon connector standardised to go to onboard Variax-style electronics, or hook directly into Roland's 13-pin protocol. Keyword is "standardise". Any other outside developer could tap into the signals to drive whatever sort of Technology they're trowelling, and the system would be both modular and expandable. Makes too much sense, so it'll never happen if left to L6 or Roland. Anyone handy with a soldering iron and a connector that isn't proprietary?
An addendum: This whole thing may be null and void later this evening if one of my other guitarists decides to buy my Vax, which he has on loan. I played a THD Flexi yesterday, can get a serious insider deal on it, and need to find a lot of cash before Friday. All this Technology talk really makes me want to plug my noisy single-coil guitar into a single-channel tube amp...Eric

[tms13pin]

Oh Eric, you'll be back over to the dark side eventually! :D

And Mikey-- I'm sure many of the fine small market luthiers
who post in that forum heading would be happy to make you
an axe with Variax guts, provided you get them the guts.
I don't think L6 sells them separately from their axes (maybe
they do, that would be pretty cool), but I gotta believe Jim
Miller had folks bring him their Variaxen to have their brains
transplanted. Not much electronics to this part... all those
guys are plenty capable of installing the guts into a guitar they
fab for them... and many are very savvy with electronics to boot
(or have someone in the shop who is). Why not pitch it to
one of 'em?

--Tom

[EricT]

Tom, I think the reason Line6 went for the solution they did, is because they sell guitars mostly to musicians, not techno-geeks like you and me;)
Just the 13-pin cable on the VG system instead of the standard 1/4" jack cable the Variax is using is going to scare a lot of people off from buying!
I think Line6 wanted it to be as "vintage" as they could, using a knob and a pick-up switch instead of buttons and LCD displays and all that fancy stuff:)

[rockindillo]

After a couple of years of looking for one at the right price, this week I finally bought a V300 (£160 on eBay).

The plan is to use it primarily as an "acoustic" guitar for those gigs where I can only take one guitar and getting a useable acoustic sound quickly is an issue. My preference is to gig with a resonator or two for open-tuned slide, plus a standard-tuned acoustic, but there are situations (flying for instance) when it's not practical to do so.

Having played around some with borrowed V300s in the past and experimented a lot with the Workbench software that lets you tweak the sounds and set up virtual open tunings, I managed to find a way of using the V300 that works OK for me in this context.

No, it's not an acoustic, or a reso, not in terms of sound, response and certainly not looks, but for the odd difficult gig, it's GOOD ENOUGH... I call it a "Wash and Go" guitar... "Take three guitars to the gig? Not me!"

I've strung my new acquisition with a set of decent 12-56 acoustic strings - it stands to reason that if anything, they goose the V300's saddle piezos better than electric strings and they also help give it a bit more of an acoustic feel and some welcome string tension for playing slide on the the open tuning presets.

The main drawback for me is the look of the thing. It's that horrible bright red that Fender used to paint those hideous EC Strats in, with a big white pickguard, the headstock's vile to look at and the body is a tad to small for my liking (having something of an ..um... large body myself, it tends to look like a toy!)

I'll suffer it for the time being, but the plan, long-term is to fit a Tele neck (if I can make the neck-pocket thing work). Also, I bought a spare V300 body on eBay last year from a guy who installs the guts in Teles and other guitars. When I get time, I'm going to strip, stain and oil the body and transfer the electrics into it. (Should be fun, judging by the pics I just looked at in this thread!)

A Tortoiseshell pickguard would set it off nicely, too and add a more "organic" look to it, if I can find someone to cut one for me...

[Memorex]

I played both a Variax 300, and 600 with tremolo at GC. I hated the 300, it felt worse than a $150 Squier, so I could only see buying one to gut for parts. The 600, on the other hand, felt a lot like many maple neck Strats and Teles I've played, it was eminently playable. The only reason I haven't bought a V600 already is because the acoustic models in the Variax Acoustic sound better, and I hear that this is because they have more complex models that are not supported by the Variax Electric's processor and memory structure. But the rumor is that Line6 will eventually upgrade the electronics of the electric series, and I'm waiting for that.

[lespauldude]

The shop I work at has yanked the electronics out of a few of these
and put them in strats, and a hollowbody.

[larbear63]

this is my variax. IT KILLS!!!!!!:RoCkIn

http://www.guitaristjeffmiller.com/vax_dcs/vax_dcs88.jpg

[hudpucker]

My buddy had a bone stock 300 that just killed. For whatever reason that particular one had 'it' as a guitar; unfortunately, the neck warped within six months and neither he nor I have since found one that was even close to that first one.

[bdegrande]

If you want everything in one package, the Parker Adrian Belew signature model Fly has both Variax electronics and a 13 pin output. Not cheap at $7500, but it is definitely possible to have both in one guitar.

[epluribus]

+1 on the dead-ish feel of your average Variax. I really wanted to like these guitars, played a bunch of 'em, but they all just feel numb in my hands--300, 700, whatever. So I nabbed a Black/Black 300 on EBay fully intending to make something like a Warmoth Tele with it. Except for one little snag...it is by far the best playing Variax I've ever layed hands on. Go figure.

Yes the neck needs more TLC than most guitars, but that's not a daunting hardship IMHO. Seems to me these are very inconsistently manufactured guitars with great electronics in 'em. Never dreamed I'd ever find a keeper, much less the 300.

Better lucky than good, eh? :)

--Ray

sykocybernetic

[bluegrif]

Night and day. I actually like the 700 as an instrument. Well made, after some work and a setup it plays great. I enjoy playing it.

Get to a store and try one out.

I can emphatically second this. The 700 is a VERY nicely made guitar. In fact, the build quality and setup, right out of the box, is as good or better than the average US production guitar. I couldn't find a flaw. I like the neck quite a bit. But it is closer to a Gibson profile than a Fender. So it kind of depends on what you're after. I play a lot of different guitars and I find it very comfortable.
I bought it primarily as a recording tool but when I discovered how nice it is (and how good some of the sounds are) I can see taking it on stage. In fact, it could be the perfect 2nd guitar for a club gig. Need an archtop tone for just a couple of songs? No problem. Brought your humbucker guitar but need a Tele sound for a couple of songs? Perfect way to have the sound you want to hear without lugging 4 or 5 guitars.
By the way, I checked out the 500 first and it wasn't bad but does feel pretty much like an average Korean made guitar. I passed. The 300 is what it is, an inexpensive way to get the utility, but it does feel cheap and isn't something I would have ever considered.