Is the guest "rapper" the new guitar solo in pop music?

[drgonzoguitar]

In one of my nerdy music discussion groups, the idea of the guest rapper as the new guitar solo came up. Sounds strange, but I am starting to think it is real. In the 1980s, you had Steve Luthaker, Eddie Van Halen, etc. providing guitar solos in pop tunes. Has that evolved (or devolved) into the guest rapper today? Even the horrid "Friday" by Rebecca Black has teh guest rapper.

[FenderTL5]

How would anyone on this forum know?
They'd have to admit to listening to pop music in order to comment.
:dunno

:messedup

[skydog]

Oh hell yeah! Every generation needs a CC DeVille.:hide

[TuftySpoon]

Very good point! I have never thought of it this way, but I have to agree. Rappers are the new guitar gods in popular culture I would say. I wish it wasn't so, but it's pretty easy to find my guitar music elsewhere.

[EricPeterson]

Most people never really cared about long winded guitar musical-masturbatory guitar solos, we as a guitar playing community never really figured that out.

[ak301]

I've thought this for a while. Where you used to get the change of mood from a bit of geetar or, dare i say it, a sax solo.
Thesedays you've got someone whittering on some nonsense and going on for ages, kind of like some of those old guitar solos!

Though Eminem tends to be quite funny

[rob2001]

When they start rappin in pentatonic we're done.

[EricPeterson]

When they start rappin in pentatonic we're done.

The truest rappers don't rely on scales a crutch.

[re-animator]

the aerosmith and run/dmc collab established that the crossover is the easiest way to broaden your audience. marketing 101.

[Sandy Cheeks]

It's already a cliché, or what's the word for beyond clichéd?

[Count_Chocolat]

Yes,

As in everything, there are wankers and the real deal.

If done well, rap is like a rythmic poetry solo. There are no cut and dry rules in music. If it works it work. Nothing wrong with a rap solo, followed by a horn or guitar solo...

[semi-hollowbody]

Most people never really cared about long winded guitar musical-masturbatory guitar solos, we as a guitar playing community never really figured that out.
sadly this is true...dont get me wrong there are some great memorable solos out there...but listen to the late 80's metal and it was wankorama!!

[tiktok]

It serves the same function, yes.

[Jahn]

Yes...

kffacxfA7G4

And Yes.

CD2LRROpph0

[thrashmetl]

Hasn't it been this way for the last 10 years? Even without a rapper, when was the last time you actually heard a guitar solo in a song by a band that would enlist the services of a guest rapper?

[atquinn]

In one of my nerdy music discussion groups, the idea of the guest rapper as the new guitar solo came up. Sounds strange, but I am starting to think it is real. In the 1980s, you had Steve Luthaker, Eddie Van Halen, etc. providing guitar solos in pop tunes. Has that evolved (or devolved) into the guest rapper today? Even the horrid "Friday" by Rebecca Black has teh guest rapper.

I've never though about it, but wow, you are completely correct! I have to say, I greatly preferred the completely-out-of-context blazing guitar solos in pop music to the guest rapper though. :D
-
Austin

[Pally]

Any song that includes a guest rapper will never be timeless. In 10 years, 99% of that stuff will sound dated.

[Sandy Cheeks]

Any song that includes a guest rapper will never be timeless. In 10 years, 99% of that stuff will sound dated.

That reminds me of a scene from Futurama. Pizza boy from the past Fry is listening to the Beastie Boys and another character asks him: why are you listening to classical music?

[A-Bone]

Any song that includes a guest rapper will never be timeless. In 10 years, 99% of that stuff will sound dated.

Same goes for an awful lot of the pop music with ubiquitous guitar solos in the 80s, or sax solos, etc. Most pop music is not timeless -- even some of the music that you (or I) still like.

[re-animator]

Hasn't it been this way for the last 10 years? Even without a rapper, when was the last time you actually heard a guitar solo in a song by a band that would enlist the services of a guest rapper?

coldplay? perhaps you've heard of them?

[Count_Chocolat]

Any song that includes a guest rapper will never be timeless. In 10 years, 99% of that stuff will sound dated.

Nothing in music seems timeless anymore.

[Colors]

Only on TGP would a majority of people still dismiss Hip-Hop/Rap as a fad. I hate to break it to the dinosaurs, but Hip-Hop has been mainstream for over 20 years.

[A-Bone]

Only on TGP would a majority of people still dismiss Hip-Hop/Rap as a fad. I hate to break it to the dinosaurs, but Hip-Hop has been mainstream for over 20 years.

True.

[JoeB63]

It serves the same function, yes.

Correct. There aren't any current pop songs with guitar solos. They either have a rap solo, or no solo at all.

The implication of this is that in order to be a in-demand guitarist, you should develop rap skills. I'm not kidding. Cover bands need to be able to pull off that material.

[Colors]

Correct. There aren't any current pop songs with guitar solos. They either have a rap solo, or no solo at all.

The implication of this is that in order to be a in-demand guitarist, you should develop rap skills. I'm not kidding. Cover bands need to be able to pull off that material.

What are you talking about? There ain't no rap in Brown Eyed Girl or Mustang Sally.

[Count_Chocolat]

Correct. There aren't any current pop songs with guitar solos. They either have a rap solo, or no solo at all.

The implication of this is that in order to be a in-demand guitarist, you should develop rap skills. I'm not kidding. Cover bands need to be able to pull off that material.

Word!!!:cool:

[Teleplayer]

One of my old bands had a rap in the middle of a rockin' original. That was ten years ago. Guess we were a bit ahead of the curve....

[EricPeterson]

Any song that includes a guest rapper will never be timeless. In 10 years, 99% of that stuff will sound dated.


Really? You realize rap has been a pretty powerful musical force for at least 25 years now. It is not a fad. I don't think it will sound any more dated than 70's and 80s guitar solos.


EDIT: it seems A-bone and RexRawk beat me to it

['70 RS]

Same goes for an awful lot of the pop music with ubiquitous guitar solos in the 80s, or sax solos.


You're not insinuating that Quarterflash is no longer on the cutting edge of pop music are you?

[tiktok]

Correct. There aren't any current pop songs with guitar solos. They either have a rap solo, or no solo at all.

The implication of this is that in order to be a in-demand guitarist, you should develop rap skills. I'm not kidding. Cover bands need to be able to pull off that material.

Well, you could also join a country cover band. It'll all feel pretty familiar to a classic rock fan at this point.

[A-Bone]

You're not insinuating that Quarterflash is no longer on the cutting edge of pop music are you?

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Well, according to YouTube comments, each of these songs "stands the test of time", so make of that what you will...

I wonder what Rindy Ross is up to these days.

[Sandy Cheeks]

Well, you could also join a country cover band. It'll all feel pretty familiar to a classic rock fan at this point.

And then do "The Devil went down to Georgia" :rotflmao

[A-Bone]

http://www.quarterflash.net/about.html

And here is the Ross's site.

['70 RS]

Well, according to YouTube comments, each of these songs "stands the test of time", so make of that what you will...



I'm gonna need to hear the remix with Jay-Z 'uh uh yeaaaaah'ing over the middle eight before I can make a determination.

:phones

[EricPeterson]

I'm gonna need to hear the remix with Jay-Z 'uh uh yeaaaaah'ing over the middle eight before I can make a determination.

:phones


Sounds like a hit in the making. :band (P.S. we need a rapper smiley!) http://2wapworld.com/smilies/rap.gifhttp://www.greensmilies.com/smile/smiley_emoticons_mttao_dj.gif

[A-Bone]

I'm gonna need to hear the remix with Jay-Z 'uh uh yeaaaaah'ing over the middle eight before I can make a determination.

:phones

I like the way you're thinking here. Someone should get Rindy, Marvin and Jigga on the phone stat!

['70 RS]

(P.S. we need a rapper smiley!) http://2wapworld.com/smilies/rap.gif


Taking into account TGP demographic, I thought this was the rapper smiley:

:brick

['70 RS]

I like the way you're thinking here. Someone should get Rindy, Marvin and Jigga on the phone stat!



With an autotuned sax solo.
Uh huh.....yeeeeaaaahhhhh!

[EricPeterson]

With an autotuned sax solo.
Uh huh.....yeeeeaaaahhhhh!


Can we get that careless whisper guy to play it? http://jpicforum.info/forum/images/smilies/Extra2/sax.gif

[A-Bone]

Can we get that careless whisper guy to play it? http://jpicforum.info/forum/images/smilies/Extra2/sax.gif

The original sax player, or the guy in the YouTube video playing those parts in random locales?

[EricPeterson]

The original sax player, or the guy in the YouTube video playing those parts in random locales?



since we are going for a timeless hit, I say the youtube guy.

[rogwerks]

yup...

['70 RS]

since we are going for a timeless hit, I say the youtube guy.

Can't we just sample it?

[indravayu]

Yes, as long as there are douchebags in the world, there will be rap for them to fistpump to - it's the new paradigm.

[EricPeterson]

Yes, as long as there are douchebags in the world, there will be rap for them to fistpump to - it's the new paradigm.

Yeah, no douche bags ever listen to rock music. :bkw

[skydog]

Only on TGP would a majority of people still dismiss Hip-Hop/Rap as a fad. I hate to break it to the dinosaurs, but Hip-Hop has been mainstream for over 20 years.
The mainstream is polluted

[Bassomatic]

Any song that includes a guest rapper will never be timeless. In 10 years, 99% of that stuff will sound dated.

Dream on, gramps!:p

[FiestaRed]

So if the OP's statement is true, is there a TRP forum somewhere?

['70 RS]

So if the OP's statement is true, is there a TRP forum somewhere?

How many bedroom rapping attorneys could there be?

[EricPeterson]

How many bedroom rapping attorneys could there be?

:rotflmao:rotflmao:rotflmao:rotflmao:rotflmao:rotf lmao:rotflmao

[harry65]

sadly this is true...dont get me wrong there are some great memorable solos out there...but listen to the late 80's metal and it was wankorama!!

wankarama forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[A-Bone]

How many bedroom rapping attorneys could there be?

You'd be surprised.

[re-animator]

thread shark-jumping:

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[The Last Rebel]

How many bedroom rapping attorneys could there be?
Fortunately I don't think rap has latched onto the formidable Birkenstock/sock combo that bloozemen seem to love.

[deltaboy]

can ya handle it?
-vtWNDI_EOI

[chrisgraff]

can ya handle it?
-vtWNDI_EOI

NICE!

[drgonzoguitar]

can ya handle it?
-vtWNDI_EOI

Very cool.

[skydog]

I'd like to hear 50 cent and Lil Wayne cover this:
6CAJtu2nHLw

[A-Bone]

I'd like to hear 50 cent and Lil Wayne cover this:
6CAJtu2nHLw

Well, since battling is a classic element of the world of the MC, I don't imagine it would be hard to find scores of hip hop equivalents to that guitar duel. Also, unlike that guitar duel, the rap versions would most likely have different people dueling, rather than the same guitarist playing both parts and pretending to duel.

[skydog]

Well, since battling is a classic element of the world of the MC, I don't imagine it would be hard to find scores of hip hop equivalents to that guitar duel. Also, unlike that guitar duel, the rap versions would most likely have different people dueling, rather than the same guitarist playing both parts and pretending to duel.
I'm from Missouri; Show Me. Oh, and it's well known that Vai collaborated with Ry Cooder on at least some of the guitar parts. And so what anyway, you missed the point.

[A-Bone]

I'm from Missouri; Show Me. Oh, and it's well known that Vai collaborated with Ry Cooder on at least some of the guitar parts. And so what anyway, you missed the point.

Yeah, I know that Ry Cooder performed the slide parts, although this creates a distinction without a difference, as there are not slide parts with Vai and slide parts with Cooder battling it out. Plus, rap battles are often improvised. I don't think that is true of your Crossroads example.

I would be curious to see how I missed your point, unless you are just rehashing some variation of that lame argument that "these guys can play, so are musicians, whereas these rap guys are not".

No one is suggesting that Hova, or Weezy, or Shady, or whoever is a guitar virtuoso, so posting something to this effect would be like posting an example of Gene Krupa and Buddy Rich trading fours and saying "I'd like to see Steve Vai and Joe Satriani do this." -- meaning duel one another on the drums.

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tJaME5ZyO5Q

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Plus, here is a whole site devoted to the battle form: http://grindtimenow.com/

[skydog]

I would be curious to see how I missed your point, unless you are just rehashing some variation of that lame argument that "these guys can play, so are musicians, whereas these rap guys are not".
That seems to be the axe that you were waiting to grind, not me.

[EricPeterson]

That seems to be the axe that you were waiting to grind, not me.

hmm. So then in this post were you saying in this post that you would be generally interested in a rap cover of the crossroads duel?


I'd like to hear 50 cent and Lil Wayne cover this:
6CAJtu2nHLw

[skydog]

hmm. So then in this post were you saying in this post that you would be generally interested in a rap cover of the crossroads duel?
Not at all. The point I was trying to make is that both genres are separate and there's no way one could replace the other. If a certain song calls for a guitar solo, I don't think a guest rapper could "fill in". By the same token, it wouldn't work the other way either.

[Bassomatic]

can ya handle it?
-vtWNDI_EOI

My TGP middle-aged white guy brain is frightened and confused...I hear elements of hip hop, but see and hear real drums, a guitar, and a shelf full of stompboxes.

What should I believe now?

Great clip, btw.

[Jerry Lundegaard]

It takes years of practice and and not a small amount of talent to play guitar like Ry Cooder or Steve Vai. I wonder how much talent and dedication it takes to run your mouth. Rap does nothing for me but give me a headache...that is, if I was forced to listen to it...that's my two cents...just sayin'...

[EricPeterson]

Not at all. The point I was trying to make is that both genres are separate and there's no way one could replace the other. If a certain song calls for a guitar solo, I don't think a guest rapper could "fill in". By the same token, it wouldn't work the other way either.

Fair point, I retract my statement.

[EricPeterson]

It takes years of practice and and not a small amount of talent to play guitar like Ry Cooder or Steve Vai. I wonder how much talent and dedication it takes to run your mouth. Rap does nothing for me but give me a headache...that is, if I was forced to listen to it...that's my two cents...just sayin'...

Deja Vu, replace rap with rock and it is the 1950s all over again.

[deltaboy]

equating rap as "running your mouth" discounts all your favorite poets, improv actors, etc. so MAKE SURE you've included the likes of Shakespeare & Robin Williams in your statement.

[Sensible Musician]

guest rapper replaced guitar solo yes. new no. this happened in the early 1990s. i think the record industry finally got on board with the already very popular hip hop after "the chronic" and "doggystyle" sold a zillion copies in [i think?] 1992

rap is the appropriate popular music for our age

it draws on our tradition of an improvising soloist in a simple framework, and more importantly, it requires no familiarity with anything outside itself. anyone can easily apprehend the skill of rapper - purely esthetically and relative to another on the same track - without any reference to anything that came before it and without any familiarity with any organized sounds outside of the everyday language

btw please stop talking about b*****s and n****z so much in your everyday language LOL. to be fair if you complain that hip-hop depicts a disgusting, amoral alternate universe in which nobody actually lives [it does], you have forgotten that rock depicted a utopian world of "...alcoholics having sex with strangers" (sarah vowell)

hip hop rushed into the mainstream in the 1980's when there was a huge void in creativity. also it was the next logical step for a culture that eschews tradition at all costs.

i say good riddance to the guitar solo. usually when a bandleader/producer tells me play a "guitar solo" I muster all my power to maintain a serious face and give them my best impression of a 1980's hard rock wanker. and they are almost always happy with it. if they say take the first solo or you take the bridge on verse changes or whatever, i just play music

also nowadays consumers find their own music without the "help" of the old guard, so who cares. if you can blow people will find you. now there is plenty of room for everyone.

[A-Bone]

Not at all. The point I was trying to make is that both genres are separate and there's no way one could replace the other. If a certain song calls for a guitar solo, I don't think a guest rapper could "fill in". By the same token, it wouldn't work the other way either.

Fair enough. I definitely did not consider this, although I wonder if there is any force to the argument in as much as I have a hard time accepting the idea that one pop song "calls for a guitar solo" and another one "calls for a rap break" except in a post hoc analysis.

[A-Bone]

equating rap as "running your mouth" discounts all your favorite poets, improv actors, etc. so MAKE SURE you've included the likes of Shakespeare & Robin Williams in your statement.

This.

Deja Vu, replace rap with rock and it is the 1950s all over again.

This.

guest rapper replaced guitar solo yes. new no. this happened in the early 1990s. i think the record industry finally got on board with the already very popular hip hop after "the chronic" and "doggystyle" sold a zillion copies in [i think?] 1992

rap is the appropriate popular music for our age

it draws on our tradition of an improvising soloist in a simple framework, and more importantly, it requires no familiarity with anything outside itself. anyone can easily apprehend the skill of rapper - purely esthetically and relative to another on the same track - without any reference to anything that came before it and without any familiarity with any organized sounds outside of the everyday language

btw please stop talking about b*****s and n****z so much in your everyday language LOL. to be fair if you complain that hip-hop depicts a disgusting, amoral alternate universe in which nobody actually lives [it does], you have forgotten that rock depicted a utopian world of "...alcoholics having sex with strangers" (sarah vowell)

hip hop rushed into the mainstream in the 1980's when there was a huge void in creativity. also it was the next logical step for a culture that eschews tradition at all costs.

i say good riddance to the guitar solo. usually when a bandleader/producer tells me play a "guitar solo" I muster all my power to maintain a serious face and give them my best impression of a 1980's hard rock wanker. and they are almost always happy with it. if they say take the first solo or you take the bridge on verse changes or whatever, i just play music

also nowadays consumers find their own music without the "help" of the old guard, so who cares. if you can blow people will find you. now there is plenty of room for everyone.

And most especially this.

[Jerry Lundegaard]

equating rap as "running your mouth" discounts all your favorite poets, improv actors, etc. so MAKE SURE you've included the likes of Shakespeare & Robin Williams in your statement.

No it doesn't. Rap is rap. Poetry is poetry. Improv is improv. Rap is its' own art form, and I don't happen to like it. Alot of it is just racket that condones, even promotes the subjugation of women and violence.
And there has been so much of that style of rap that I wouldn't give it the time of day even if there were any I might actually consider art.
There are some very skilled guitar players playing certain styles of music that I won't give a listen to either, because the nature of the music style is offensive to me. Don't try to read more into it than there is.

[skydog]

How many bedroom rapping attorneys could there be?
Interesting thought! I wonder also if they have a forum where they dis gear and compare boutique mics to big name mics etc.

[EricPeterson]

Interesting thought! I wonder also if they have a forum where they dis gear and compare boutique mics to big name mics etc.

I would guarantee it exists.

[/URL]

[URL]http://www.google.com/search?btnG=1&pws=0&q=rap+forum+ (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=rap+forum+)