Sammy Hagar and his book "Red"

[eddie101]

I just got the book from Costco and read it to kill some time. I don't particularly care for so called a "kiss and tell" book but I thought it was "interesting" to say the least. I've always been a fan of Sammy, and for my money he was the better frontman/singer than Dave. Van Halen was at its peak with Sammy, IMO. Granted, that Dave was more flamboyant showman but had/has a limited vocal range. More poppy than Dave – really? Just a gigolo? – but at the end of the day, hey, it’s all about the song and Sammy wrote better tunes bar none. YMMV.

If the book is true - I don't see why Sammy would lie - then the Brothers need to grow up and face the music, no pun intended. I couldn't care less whether those guys ever get together or not. I’m too old for that and they should have enough common sense to figure that out on their own. What, it’s been about 20 years since they split? I am also tired of seeing/hearing Eddie pushing for another VH gear ad nauseam; it’s the greatest thing since sliced bread blah blah. :rolleyes: Heck, Eddie puts many us at the For Sale Emporium look bad with his unlimited hyperboles. OTOH, I'm just happy for Sammy as it seems he's finally living his life which is what we all want. Peace, Ed (sane one, I hope)

[Chuck Snider]

Sammy was on the Adam Carolla podcast a week or so ago.. I never cared either way about him but I must say he seemed like a really cool, down to earth dude.I would say I have a postive opinion about Sammy now. Great interview ....He touches a bit on the VH topic (gracefully)..... It's a good listen

[HoboMan]

I guess the book is Sammy's way of saying "Thank You" to the Van Halen brothers for giving him the best years of his career.

[hellbender]

I guess the book is Sammy's way of saying "Thank You" to the Van Halen brothers for giving him the best years of his career.

that could go either way. personally i think the VH boys did one smart thing in their career.

[Baloney]

I think Sammy and Mikey got screwed by the brothers. I think Sams stories of EVHs drug use was all true. ED looked like he was on Meth. Meth will make you stupid and act like EVH did. Sammy is better off without them.

[HugalosPizza]

Sammy Hagar has a book? Why? That is one person who should just thank god he was ever relevant to anybody and go away.

[Roadeye]

Eddie Van Halen was a meteor who burned brightly but burned out too quickly. He reinvented rock guitar on that first album and played every lick he ever knew or invented on it. There was zero musical growth beyond that, but where could he have gone? We'll never know.

[SteveO]

There was zero musical growth beyond that, but where could he have gone? We'll never know.

Manufacturing.

[paulrocker]

I have to say I admire the guy's business acumen. He sold 80% of his stock in Cobo Wabo for 80 million dollars. That is incredible.

Damn.

[FiguredMaple]

Sammy needs to come out with some tunes as good as his VH days.
I'm looking forward to the second Chickenfoot album.

[Kentano2000]

Eddie Van Halen was a meteor who burned brightly but burned out too quickly. He reinvented rock guitar on that first album and played every lick he ever knew or invented on it. There was zero musical growth beyond that, but where could he have gone? We'll never know.

You obviously haven't listened to "Fair Warning." :D

[Roadeye]

You obviously haven't listened to "Fair Warning." :D

I have, but you're still looking at something that was 30 years ago.

[fusionbear]

Eddie Van Halen was a meteor who burned brightly but burned out too quickly. He reinvented rock guitar on that first album and played every lick he ever knew or invented on it. There was zero musical growth beyond that, but where could he have gone? We'll never know.


Loved Eddie, but this is true. Remember his jam with Alan Holdsworth? I don't think he ever got over that spanking. If I were him, I would have gone back to the woodshed for some serious study...

FWIW, Fair Warning is my fav. VH album, but what is there is just the same techniques of VH1 but with more serious songwriting (e.g. serious themes).

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

Van Halen was Roth, Ed, Al and Mike and that is the bottom line! It was a great chemistry, with a certain friction full of youthful energy. Roth has a style of singing and phrasing that was unique and he fit it in perfectly around Ed's guitar work. The timing was perfect as well considering the lame state of the music world in 1978.

Sammy, while having a good range would never be able to top what Roth did with the band, but it's not all Sammy's fault, Eddie fell into the dreaded rut of playing the same riffs over and over. He lost his off the wall, spur of the moment creative edge that took them through Diver Down (the originals).

Oh well, :dunno

I've always liked Sammy. He did put some polish on Van Halen and wrote several decent songs (other than his lyrics), but I liked his solo stuff better. If he was truly a class act, he wouldn't write a book bashing anyone, but rather put the bad experiences behind him and move on. :red

[Boobala]

Van Halen was Roth, Ed, Al and Mike and that is the bottom line! It was a great chemistry, with a certain friction full of youthful energy. Roth has a style of singing and phrasing that was unique and he fit it in perfectly around Ed's guitar work. The timing was perfect as well considering the lame state of the music world in 1978.

Sammy, while having a good range would never be able to top what Roth did with the band, but it's not all Sammy's fault, Eddie fell into the dreaded rut of playing the same riffs over and over. He lost his off the wall, spur of the moment creative edge that took them through Diver Down (the originals).

Oh well, :dunno

I've always liked Sammy. He did put some polish on Van Halen and wrote several decent songs (other than his lyrics), but I liked his solo stuff better. If he was truly a class act, he wouldn't write a book bashing anyone, but rather put the bad experiences behind him and move on. :red

Record sales disagree with you.

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

Record sales disagree with you.



Well, some of us are musicians and hold a higher standard. :red Eddie's guitar work was brilliant the first 5 albums, then he got stuck. He still wrote some good songs, but Sammy mushed them out.


Who cares about the general public? Nickleback sells records too, what does that tell you. :messedup

[davebc]

Sammy's the one who's laughing all the way to the bank after selling Cabo Wabo.

[eddie101]

Loved Eddie, but this is true. Remember his jam with Alan Holdsworth? I don't think he ever got over that spanking. If I were him, I would have gone back to the woodshed for some serious study...



Hi FBear, where can I find that recording? Is it available at all? I'm a big fan of A Holdsworth myself. Thanks, Ed

[rickc007]

I thought it was a great book.

It is "not" an Eddie Bash book, it's a Sammys life book.

Couldn't believe the level of Poverty he grew up in.
How entrepreneurial he was ...

Thought it was a great fast read.

[Boobala]

Hi FBear, where can I find that recording? Is it available at all? I'm a big fan of A Holdsworth myself. Thanks, Ed

Zee1PEeYAFM

KM-Me0B_zQ8

[Echoes]

two very different and distinct categories...

VH version 1 (with DL Roth) was all about (driven by) the ATTITUDE going down in the LA rock scene (I know I was there and part of it) they represented the prance and stance of the explosive scene in So Cal. of that day...it was about 'high energy and ATTITUDE'...

VH version 2 (with Sammy Hagar) was all about (driven by) writing songs that would sell records. Of course Sammy Hagar's big time 'selling point' (even in his solo career after Montrose and before VH) was this 'happy-go-lucky-party-animal' that flows through the songs of Sammy's venture with Van Halen too....it more directly 'spoke' to the guy they wanted to sell records to. It was more 'professional' driven because of that....BUT (IMO) misses most of the 'spark and reckless energy' VH version 1 had.

[Roadeye]

two very different and distinct categories...

VH version 1 (with DL Roth) was all about (driven by) the ATTITUDE going down in the LA rock scene (I know I was there and part of it) they represented the prance and stance of the explosive scene in So Cal. of that day...it was about 'high energy and ATTITUDE'...

VH version 2 (with Sammy Hagar) was all about (driven by) writing songs that would sell records. Of course Sammy Hagar's big time 'selling point' (even in his solo career after Montrose and before VH) was this 'happy-go-lucky-party-animal' that flows through the songs of Sammy's venture with Van Halen too....it more directly 'spoke' to the guy they wanted to sell records to. It was more 'professional' driven because of that....BUT (IMO) misses most of the 'spark and energy' VH version 1 had.

Very astute and I agree with you and prefer VH version 1 as well.

[R3deemed]

Sammy Hagar has a book? Why? That is one person who should just thank god he was ever relevant to anybody and go away.
$

VH version 1 (with DL Roth) was all about (driven by) the ATTITUDE going down in the LA rock scene (I know I was there and part of it) they represented the prance and stance of the explosive scene in So Cal. of that day...it was about 'high energy and ATTITUDE'...
If Echoes wrote a book I'd read it!

[LivingTheDream]

Sammy Hagar has a book? Why? That is one person who should just thank god he was ever relevant to anybody and go away.

Don't be a hater. Sammy has been a success at virtually everything he's ever touched.

1) Montrose
2) Solo career
3) Movie soundtracks
4) Time with Van Halen
5) Cabo Wabo Tequila - which he sold for $80 million
6) Caba Wabo bar in Mexico
7) Sammy & the Waboritas
8) Chickenfoot
9) Author
10) Philanthropic endeavors
11) Soon to be opening a restaruant in CA

I'd say he's been relevant for over 4 decades.

[hellbender]

It's like early Elvis and Nixon Elvis.

People change

[retrobob]

Sammy was best with Montrose.

[phillygtr]

I've always liked Sammy. I do believe that "5150" may be their best collection of pop rock songs. And maybe the greatest pinch hitting in the history of rock music. Overall, I like the Roth era better, but you can't take away what they did on the "5150" album.

[hellbender]

Don't be a hater. Sammy has been a success at virtually everything he's ever touched.

1) Montrose
2) Solo career
3) Movie soundtracks
4) Time with Van Halen
5) Cabo Wabo Tequila - which he sold for $80 million
6) Caba Wabo bar in Mexico
7) Sammy & the Waboritas
8) Chickenfoot
9) Author
10) Philanthropic endeavors
11) Soon to be opening a restaruant in CA

I'd say he's been relevant for over 4 decades.

He also pulled the VH boys ass out of a huge hole spiritually after DLR split or whatever the hell he did.

[coldfingaz]

I liked VH & Sammy separately. The pairing didn't gel at all for me, but it was obviously a huge commercial success... not that VH was hurting before that, though.

But, when it comes to the guys collectively & personally, I have absolutely no idea how Sammy could stand working with the VH brothers as long as he did. It's good to have an honest account of it all from his perspective. Frankly, he would be a fool to write a book & not touch on it. Nobody would buy it.

We'll see if VH has anything left in the tank. My guess is that they do not as I haven't enjoyed any records they've made since '82. But man... they were amazing especially through those first 4 records.

I love how people come in here & slag Hagar for being nothing before or after VH when he was both more personally successful & also stronger artistically without them.

The funny thing is VH should be thanking him to this day in spite of what he may say about them because they never would've done anything after Roth left without a guy like Sammy that worked hard, got stuff done & likely got the most he could out of the band at that point. I'd like to know who else could've done as well as he did in that role.

[winonatele]

Sammy was on the Adam Carolla podcast a week or so ago.. I never cared either way about him but I must say he seemed like a really cool, down to earth dude.I would say I have a postive opinion about Sammy now. Great interview ....He touches a bit on the VH topic (gracefully)..... It's a good listen

That was a good listen.

[ronmail65]

I liked VH & Sammy separately. The pairing didn't gel at all for me, but it was obviously a huge commercial success... not that VH was hurting before that, though.

But, when it comes to the guys collectively & personally, I have absolutely no idea how Sammy could stand working with the VH brothers as long as he did. It's good to have an honest account of it all from his perspective. Frankly, he would be a fool to write a book & not touch on it. Nobody would buy it.

We'll see if VH has anything left in the tank. My guess is that they do not as I haven't enjoyed any records they've made since '82. But man... they were amazing especially through those first 4 records.

I love how people come in here & slag Hagar for being nothing before or after VH when he was both more personally successful & also stronger artistically without them.

The funny thing is VH should be thanking him to this day in spite of what he may say about them because they never would've done anything after Roth left without a guy like Sammy that worked hard, got stuff done & likely got the most he could out of the band at that point. I'd like to know who else could've done as well as he did in that role.


:agree I just read the book. And, while it's Sammy's book and I'm sure it is Sammy biased... I believe a lot of what he has to say. He's got a strong work ethic, drive, and seems like a stand up guy who's had a lot of success. But man -- does he put EVH through the ringer -- makes him sound like a real dirtbag, who's very insecure about his role in the band and in the music industry.

I really think Sammy saved VH like nobody else could have. Those guys would have fallen apart after 1984 if it wasn't for Sammy's inspiration, work ethic, and leadership. And even now, if wasn't for DLR and his deperation / drive, I think they'd be done.

In the VH-DLR vs VanHagar debate -- they really are 2 different bands despite being 75% the same in terms of personnel. I like them both for different reasons. VH-DLR was more of a hard rock pioneering, high energy band. VanHagar was less pioneering, somewhat inspirational, and more laid back.

But I digress... I enjoyed the book. It was a worthwhile read.

[sws1]

I read the book. While enjoyable, it's one of the poorer books I've read. They could have called it an interview, since it was written as if he just rambled on for hours, and someone typed it.

I'm not a literary snob, but it does feel like it was written by a 6th grader.

[Stratobuc]

Sammy was best with Montrose.

I agree.

[Bradders]

Van Halen was Roth, Ed, Al and Mike and that is the bottom line! It was a great chemistry, with a certain friction full of youthful energy. Roth has a style of singing and phrasing that was unique and he fit it in perfectly around Ed's guitar work. The timing was perfect as well considering the lame state of the music world in 1978.

Sammy, while having a good range would never be able to top what Roth did with the band, but it's not all Sammy's fault, Eddie fell into the dreaded rut of playing the same riffs over and over. He lost his off the wall, spur of the moment creative edge that took them through Diver Down (the originals).

Oh well, :dunno

I've always liked Sammy. He did put some polish on Van Halen and wrote several decent songs (other than his lyrics), but I liked his solo stuff better. If he was truly a class act, he wouldn't write a book bashing anyone, but rather put the bad experiences behind him and move on. :red

Record sales maybe - but I agree with the Doc.....Van Halen included DLR - that was the band Van Halen - that's why it came into being.........anyone else coming in wasn't VH - it was a different, only similarity was the name.

Ever since I saw them blow (the then godly) Sabbath off the stage in England in 77/78 on that first tour, when this brash bar chested god leapt over the drum riser and the guitar player did stuff you just "didnt't do" with a rock guitar.....THAT (to me) was Van Halen.

Of course just my opinion.......but I'm sticking to it.......peace
Bradders

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

Record sales disagree with you.


Pop tunes sell. :)


I like Sammy, I think he is way more level headed than the Brothers, and that's not a hard place to find. Still, the original line up was Rock and Roll at it's best! :bow VH II is my fav from the band.

[MuseCafeChris]

I'm not a literary snob, but it does feel like it was written by a 6th grader.

So, not unlike the lion's share of Sammy's lyrics. Seems apropos to me.

[big mike]

Great singer
Fun songs
Fun read.

You guys are ZERO percent fun.

[surfshack]

Pop tunes sell. :)


I like Sammy, I think he is way more level headed than the Brothers, and that's not a hard place to find. Still, the original line up was Rock and Roll at it's best! :bow VH II is my fav from the band.

i agree with ya 100% Tweedy......it's the songs from the original VH/DLR lineup that hold up after all these years.
i got maybe 2 VanHagar songs on my Ipod , but a ton of VH/DLR and a lot of killer live stuff!

[rico1204]

I think over the years, we really are just seeing how VH as a band musically evolved/matured.

VH+DLR = the quintessential young rock & roll band. They were young, everything was over the top (both DLR's antics and EVH's playing, etc). And there's a huge appeal to that. Blaring "Panama" on my stereo makes me feel young.

VH+SH = a band more mature from musical standpoint. Not necessarily better/worse, just different. It manifested itself as more "pop", but there's a lot going on there - more harmonies, EVH's phrasing more controlled, production tighter, etc. In that they lost a lot of that crazy, reckless rock&roll everyone loved. But what replaced it, IMHO, was a really musical rock band that connected with a lot of people. They weren't young anymore (estimate, what, in their 30s by then??). Their lifestyles changed from when they were teens/early 20s. They were settling down and having families, and that reflected in the songs going from 5150-Balance.

Look at what's happened the few times DLR reunited with VH? ummm..."Me Wise Magic" isn't often listed as one of their classics. It's an ok song, but at that age, where the band was, the youthful exuberance from the 70s didn't fit them anymore. VH+DLR just didn't fit right in 1996 anymore. Remember how awkward the brothers looked when they were at that press conference with a haggard looking DLR who was still trying to act like he was 23???

That said, I love both incarnations for what they were.

As far as the band dynamics, it's a shame EVH seems to have burned out like he has. He was the main reason I picked up the guitar. Firing Mike from the band really was my last ray of hope gone. Mike did just as much for the VH sound as DLR, Sammy, EVH. Such a shame.

[MuseCafeChris]

"Me Wise Magic" isn't often listed as one of their classics.

It should be.

[rwe333]

Eddie Van Halen was a meteor who burned brightly but burned out too quickly. He reinvented rock guitar on that first album and played every lick he ever knew or invented on it. There was zero musical growth beyond that, but where could he have gone? We'll never know.

I disagree - he seemed to have something unique/innovative on each of the DLR era recordings, but started getting more tune oriented as he added keys around 1984. Can't say his playing or tone improved as his chart sales soared.

[pokey]

Don't be a hater. Sammy has been a success at virtually everything he's ever touched.

1) Montrose
2) Solo career
3) Movie soundtracks
4) Time with Van Halen
5) Cabo Wabo Tequila - which he sold for $80 million
6) Caba Wabo bar in Mexico
7) Sammy & the Waboritas
8) Chickenfoot
9) Author
10) Philanthropic endeavors
11) Soon to be opening a restaruant in CA



I'd say he's been relevant for over 4 decades.

Thanks for not including HSAS. lol

[jekylmeister]

I, too, read Sammy's book. There are a couple of errors you guys are posting. He was with VH for 11 years, longer than Dave was. He had two very successful (non-music) businesses before he got into Cabo Wabo. By the time he got into the tequila biz, he was making more money from non-music related ventures than music. As I recall, he sold most of his interest in Cabo Wabo for $100M, not 80. Check the book. He asks "What do you do with $100M?".

He has always rocked my world since the first Montrose album. He works hard, writes good, catchy stuff, and doesn't mess with anyone. I have nothing bad to say about the dude. Matter of fact, I'm mostly jealous that I don't know him. He was not malicious in his descriptions of how Eddie, or anyone else, behaved in this book. Just the facts.

[jpftribe]

I read the book with great interest. Love almost all of Sammy's stuff.

I would equate it to Sammy knows how to have fun and makes lots of money doing it, VH bros like to have fun and sometimes made money doing it.

Personally, I am a big fan of the Van Hagar days. U Carnal Knowledge is a bad recording of some great tunes. Balance is a fantastic recording of mostly lame tunes.

I've posted this here before, but IMHO if VH had released Amsterdam in the DLR days, folks would be praising that tune as the greatest tone ever.

[charveldan]

I saw Sam in an interview, he recalled an event when VH was on tour and a drunk/high Eddie was in the process of bashing out a window of their private jet at 30,000 feet, Sam said he knew at that moment they were done.

And frankly Sam has been quiet about the brothers for decades so.......

[blankchecks]

I'm so sick of the Eddie haters in here...like you [MOD EDIT] have any clue what he had to go through.

Your the number one guitar player in the world, and all anyone can do, including Sammy, is lay more pressure on the guy to make a better album, try to top Eruption, and anything less is failure.

I'm here to tell you that all Eddie has to do is come back with a decent replacement singer, just like Ac/Dc did, try not to reinvent the wheel, and just do what he does. Relax and play, and all your little shredders, and country guys, and indie guys will just ponder why all the ticket sales fell down, because the Van Halen Tour cranked up.

I honestly believe because of Eddie's place in rock and guitar, it's just been a hate campaign from all angles, and it's so typical of the music business...if you can't play better then someone, better kick over his amp, mess with the PA, call him names behind his back. [MOD EDIT]

[Scott Auld]

I agree with your point about Eddie, blankchecks, but tone down the angry rhetoric and insults - they do not help your cause.

[Last Nerve]

EVH will always be at the top for me.
Truly an amazing guitar player.

I got into rock music a bit later in my life,
so my first taste was hearing a BLASTING home stereo system of my friend's older brother, who put in some Van Halen.
"HELLO, BAAAAAAAAAABYYYY!!!!!!"

I listened and learned and loved it all.
Roth and Sammy were completely different.
I enjoyed them both.
I do have more Hagar-era sounds that I completely love,
but I could listen to Van Halen, ALL OF IT, all day long!

I want to check out the book, because Hagar, as a person, is interesting to me.

Still love ya, Eddie!

[PAF]

Your the number one guitar player in the world, and all anyone can do, including Sammy, is lay more pressure on the guy to make a better album, try to top Eruption, and anything less is failure.



While I don't necessarily disagree in concept, very few outside guitar players gave 2 shits about "Eruption" in the grand scheme of early VH mass appeal

[jjguitarranch]

Read the book, gotta admit it completely changed the way I think of Sammy. Total respect. Eddie, Alex and Sammy were lucky to find each other.

[Gasp100]

Van Halen was Roth, Ed, Al and Mike and that is the bottom line! It was a great chemistry, with a certain friction full of youthful energy. Roth has a style of singing and phrasing that was unique and he fit it in perfectly around Ed's guitar work. The timing was perfect as well considering the lame state of the music world in 1978.

Sammy, while having a good range would never be able to top what Roth did with the band, but it's not all Sammy's fault, Eddie fell into the dreaded rut of playing the same riffs over and over. He lost his off the wall, spur of the moment creative edge that took them through Diver Down (the originals).

Oh well, :dunno

I've always liked Sammy. He did put some polish on Van Halen and wrote several decent songs (other than his lyrics), but I liked his solo stuff better. If he was truly a class act, he wouldn't write a book bashing anyone, but rather put the bad experiences behind him and move on. :red

Don't worry Tweed, record sales might not agree but history sure will. Orginal VH is a legend and always will be... Van Hagar was a lame attempt at extending the inevitable demise of a music icon.
"Songwriting"... really?
Give me a song that Hagar wrote that doesn't have the word LOVE in it at least 20 times... sophomoric pop fodder garbage. No swagger, just silly.

"VH+SH = a band more mature from musical standpoint. Not necessarily better/worse, just different. It manifested itself as more "pop", but there's a lot going on there - more harmonies, EVH's phrasing more controlled, production tighter, etc. In that they lost a lot of that crazy, reckless rock&roll everyone loved. But what replaced it, IMHO, was a really musical rock band that connected with a lot of people."

-- Wow, I could not disagree more. Have you ever REALLY listened to the SONGS and playing on the original VH albums with DLR vs. Vna Hagar? The sublteties and intricasies of EVH's rhythm's, phrasing, DYNAMICS are unparalelled, especially when compared to virtually any other player/rock band at the time. Fast forward to post 1984 -- flat, uninspiring, cookie cutter, brick wall limited, radio ready compressed, meh...
Even 1984 (which many people, guitarists in particular dismiss as the demise of good Van Halen) is pretty much a watershed rock album. Ok, JUMP is you keyboard laden pop tune (and yes, it IS catchy as all get out) but damn the rest of the album? Drop Dead Legs is syrupy sweet rhythmic groove, I'll Wait which still has the keys in the forfront is just a great song... so many others.
Van Hagar? "When it's Love"? "Why Can't This be Love"? "When Love Comes Walking In"?

BTW: In 1999, the RIAA certified their debut album (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Halen_(album)) diamond for ten million in U.S. sales

[Gasp100]

Record sales disagree with you.

Sure about that? Both VH1 and 1984 are listed as 10x Platinum in the US. No Van Hagar to be found on this list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_in_the_United_States

I love how people make assumptions and those are then regarded as truth going foward lol... I wonder what album will be considered a classic rock record going foward? VHII vs. OU812?

[RockManDan]

most people who dismiss Van Hager seem to be focusing on the MTV pop tunes. If you look beyond that to the album cuts, songs like

'5150'
'Pleasure Dome'
'Amsterdam'

say what you want about the lyrics, but there's no way that tunes like those aren't as mature musically as the Roth-era. People have this belief that every Hagar era song was some kind of straight ahead 4 chord pop tune, and thats just plain not the case. Even a pop song like 'Feels So Good' has plenty of creative chord inversions and rhthmic stuff that puts way beyond your usual radio pop. Same thing with 'Right Now' and 'Top of the World'.

Just admit that you don't like Hagar era songs. It's ok, people have different tastes. But you need to be secure enough in your opinions to have them without making up false claims to feel superior. When you try to belittle the opinions of others, you just look like an ass. You're allowed to hate on the Hagar years as much as you want, but i think making a case that essentially boils down to 'Roth = rock' and 'Sam = pop' really shows you don't have a firm knowledge of either.

And honestly i don't see how people are criticising Sammy's lyrics and praising Roth. Seriously?

[SteveO]

most people who dismiss Van Hager seem to be focusing on the MTV pop tunes. If you look beyond that to the album cuts, songs like

'5150'
'Pleasure Dome'
'Amsterdam'

say what you want about the lyrics, but there's no way that tunes like those aren't as mature musically as the Roth-era. People have this belief that every Hagar era song was some kind of straight ahead 4 chord pop tune, and thats just plain not the case. Even a pop song like 'Feels So Good' has plenty of creative chord inversions and rhthmic stuff that puts way beyond your usual radio pop. Same thing with 'Right Now' and 'Top of the World'.

Just admit that you don't like Hagar era songs. It's ok, people have different tastes. But you need to be secure enough in your opinions to have them without making up false claims to feel superior. When you try to belittle the opinions of others, you just look like an ass. You're allowed to hate on the Hagar years as much as you want, but i think making a case that essentially boils down to 'Roth = rock' and 'Sam = pop' really shows you don't have a firm knowledge of either.

And honestly i don't see how people are criticising Sammy's lyrics and praising Roth. Seriously?

People tend to also overlook the fact that in both versions of the band, EDDIE WROTE THE SONGS.

[xjojox]

The thing that so many folks leave out of the equation is that Sammy is the singer Eddie needed and wanted at the time. Eddie was a revolutionary guitarist, but he loved pop music and R&B also. He had all these soaring melodies in his head that DLR could never sing, and he had become frustrated with writing for the limitations of Dave's voice. The first time he jammed with Sammy, his reaction was "this guy can sing anything, I can write any kind of melody I want now". Didn't you ever notice that "Standing On Top of the World" is built on the outro riff of "Jump?" That's the direction he wanted to go in.

Also, let's face it, how often is phase two of a band as commercially and critically successful as phase one? Purple did quite well financially with Coverdale but he never got out of Ian's shadow. Dave was there when they were young and hungry and you can never get those days back. But I liked both versions.

They were long in the tooth by phase three. I've said it before, they needed to go with a female or black male to really change things up, Cherone was too safe. And not Patty Smythe. Sass Jordan would have kicked ass in VH. Or Corey Glover. Just a thought.

[Gasp100]

"You're allowed to hate on the Hagar years as much as you want, but i think making a case that essentially boils down to 'Roth = rock' and 'Sam = pop' really shows you don't have a firm knowledge of either."

Who said anything about the above comment?
What song is more pop-rock than "Jump"?
Hell, some could argue that early VH albums received any airplay at all because they were a cover band lol...
I don't think DLR era VH and Van Hagar are in the same stratosphere regarding song structure, musicianship, raw energy, attitude and the swagger/confidence that really encapsulates what VH defined with DLR.
It's all missing when Hagar joins in my opinion. Note that I don't put the blame 100% on Hagar either... and no I don't think DLR was that great of a vocalist OR a lyricists either lol. But there was undeniable CHEMISTRY in the original band that was sorely lacking and lost for good post-1984.
I really do think time will tell that the original VH albums from 30 years ago will be remembered and reveered while the Hagar stuff will just be a footnote.
And the people heaping on that Hagar = multitudes of more albums sold are just.... well........ wrong.

[TNJ]

I guess I'll have to check out the new bio.
I'm squarely in the DLR camp in the Van Halen/Van Hagar wars.
I also believe that, for my $$$, Montrose will always be THE band where Sammy ruled supreme. All of the above said, "For Unlawful..." is a rockin' record!

S
j

[wholetone]

Loved Eddie, but this is true. Remember his jam with Alan Holdsworth? I don't think he ever got over that spanking. If I were him, I would have gone back to the woodshed for some serious study...

FWIW, Fair Warning is my fav. VH album, but what is there is just the same techniques of VH1 but with more serious songwriting (e.g. serious themes).

Eddie did so cool stuff in what I consider a very limited context. He has not grown as a guitarist since the first few VH albums.

Alan Holdsworth has more talent in his pinkie than EVH has in his entire body, but... he's playing improvisation and its just a whole different structure than rock (which is a more limited musical form - the type that EVH plays - IMHO).

I think Eddie had the talent to get better, but not the desire, and his alcoholism and pretty obvious drug abuse has destroyed his mind and has ravaged his talent. You Tube is a very unforgiving medium; a week or so back we were having fun mocking Ace for falling off the stage during a pretty technically (and showmanship wise) guitar solo; go listen to some of the guitar work from the last VH tour with DLR. Its awful. I mean, its turd floating in a fresh punchbowl bad.

Most rock musicians - at least those that are in the sort of pop/hard rock domain that VH was in - don't get better as they older - they get worse. Voices to, the energy level goes. A lot of bands are great in the studio but never great live, and when you see live playing, especially as they age and lose skills, you go "WTF happened?"

I was sitting with my GF in the waiting room of the local Honda dealership this morning waiting for her car to finish routine servicing, and The View was on, the center of today's show being Whoopi's birthday. They had David Crosby and Graham Nash on, playing acoustic guitar, and they sang one of their 60s hippie songs that seems so terribly annoying now (I was born in '61 and I just don't get hippie music - I'm too close to the end of the Boomer generation if '64 is the cutoff date). I'm more of the generation that grew up with Rush and Led Zep and Aerosmith... all I want to do when I hear those "peace and love" songs with warbling smarmy harmony is take the acoustic guitars away and smash them into tiny little pieces... :rotflmao That's not to say that its not good music (I don't think these guys are very good musicians, technically) as they have a lot of fans - its just not my bag.

They were *terrible* - not that I thought these guys were particularly talented to begin with, but they were in the right place at the right time. Neither of them can sing anymore, and decades of drug and alcohol abuse have not been kind. They look tired - its almost like watching puppets play the music. Of the four guys from that band, only Neil Young has continued to consistently put out good music as he's gotten older, but Neil is *definitely* an acquired taste (but you can't accuse him of going out on NOT putting on an energetic show).

Anyway, this is one of the reasons I prefer jazz, and progressive music if you're going to listen to rock - it seems like the players get better as they age, and they don't look silly up there singing songs whose original target audience audience is now either with kids in college or bouncing their grandchildren on their lap. McLaughlin has continued to improve as a guitarist as he's gotten older - I'll take the 70 year old McLaughlin over the 25 year old with the monstrous Gibson double neck and overdriven sound that would keep squealing into feedback. You see *growth*.

There are exceptions to the "old rock musician" rule, Pete sounds better than ever in his 60s and he still sings and plays the guitar with energy. So does Jeff Beck, and I think Clapton has continued to not necessarily improve technically but he entertains extremely well for a guy that doesn't probably need the paycheck anymore. Santana - well, he's playing the same licks and three chords he's been playing for 40 years, but at least he's playing them well even though he's had zero growth as a player - again, IMHO.

It is truly a shame no one has locked EVH in a room and dried him out from the drugs, alcohol and quit the smoking. He's still young enough and I think enough of his brain may not be Swiss'ed from the alcohol that he could pick up and get his skills back and grow, but I don't know who is going to lock him up; its certainly not going to be Alex, and I honestly believe that if Eddie could somehow clone himself and do the singing he'd be the lead singer of VH too.

Its such a shame, because I see Eddie coming to the same bad end MJ did - all drugged out and paying someone to keep him stoned until one day he ODs... just so sad. :huh

[fusion58]

Loved Eddie, but this is true. Remember his jam with Alan Holdsworth? I don't think he ever got over that spanking. If I were him, I would have gone back to the woodshed for some serious study...


Yep.

I also remember one particular NAMM concert when Ed got his head handed to him by Albert Lee and Steve Morse. He basically just quit playing in the middle of a tune and watched them with his jaw on the floor.

I always wondered what might have happened had EVH licked the booze and drugs and gotten serious about studying music and his instrument.

[John Hurtt]

People tend to also overlook the fact that in both versions of the band, EDDIE WROTE THE SONGS.

In all THREE versions Eddie wrote most of the riffs and changes. Roth, Hagar and Cherone came up with the lyrics and the melodies, which are critical to a good album. Take the riffs and structure of VHIII and give it to either Sammy or DLR and that album doesn't blow...

[Stratobuc]

Great singer
Fun songs
Fun read.

You guys are ZERO percent fun.


:facepalm

[CRAIG4FSU]

Good read.

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

"You're allowed to hate on the Hagar years as much as you want, but i think making a case that essentially boils down to 'Roth = rock' and 'Sam = pop' really shows you don't have a firm knowledge of either."

Who said anything about the above comment?
What song is more pop-rock than "Jump"?
Hell, some could argue that early VH albums received any airplay at all because they were a cover band lol...
I don't think DLR era VH and Van Hagar are in the same stratosphere regarding song structure, musicianship, raw energy, attitude and the swagger/confidence that really encapsulates what VH defined with DLR.
It's all missing when Hagar joins in my opinion. Note that I don't put the blame 100% on Hagar either... and no I don't think DLR was that great of a vocalist OR a lyricists either lol. But there was undeniable CHEMISTRY in the original band that was sorely lacking and lost for good post-1984.
I really do think time will tell that the original VH albums from 30 years ago will be remembered and reveered while the Hagar stuff will just be a footnote.
And the people heaping on that Hagar = multitudes of more albums sold are just.... well........ wrong.


Roth really didn't want to do Jump, and wanted to do I'll Wait even less..... I think that's part of the reason he bailed out, because things were changing where he didn't want to go.


Where almost every song of the Roth era was a good tune or at least interesting to dig into for a musician. Sammy tunes came across as more generic and there was nothing that the band was doing that was really interesting. Eddie and band seemed to settle in by then and quit their exploring. There was no mystery as far as lyrics either.

[stvnscott]

I like both version of VH for different reasons. I was exploring music and learning guitar during the DLR years and was blown away. During the SH years, their music started causing the ladies' clothes to fall off. I was blown away. :)

[RockManDan]

Where almost every song of the Roth era was a good tune or at least interesting to dig into for a musician. Sammy tunes came across as more generic and there was nothing that the band was doing that was really interesting. Eddie and band seemed to settle in by then and quit their exploring. There was no mystery as far as lyrics either.

I really don't see how anyone who has really listened to the Sammy albums can say this. Taking aside a few guitar techniques and weird sounds from fair warning, looking at pure riff structure and arrangement, I don't see much difference in complexity. All the off-beat rhthymic skips are there. The key changes, the tapping stuff, if anything Alex got MORE complex with Hagar. Plus Eddie came up with new stuff he wasn't doing before, even if he did stop playing some of the weird stuff from Meanstreet or Girl Gone Bad. His sound is less peircing, more sustaining, so he did more stuff with feedback and his 'tap 12 frets above the note' trick. Listen to 'respect the wind' and then say 'Eddie never evolved after VH1'

[jpftribe]

I really don't see how anyone who has really listened to the Sammy albums can say this. Taking aside a few guitar techniques and weird sounds from fair warning, looking at pure riff structure and arrangement, I don't see much difference in complexity. All the off-beat rhthymic skips are there. The key changes, the tapping stuff, if anything Alex got MORE complex with Hagar. Plus Eddie came up with new stuff he wasn't doing before, even if he did stop playing some of the weird stuff from Meanstreet or Girl Gone Bad. His sound is less peircing, more sustaining, so he did more stuff with feedback and his 'tap 12 frets above the note' trick. Listen to 'respect the wind' and then say 'Eddie never evolved after VH1'

I agree. I've posted this before but IMHO if EVH had released Amsterdam as it was recorded on Diver Down, folks would be talking about how epic a tune that was.

[semi-hollowbody]

LOL
DLR didnt want to do jump or Ill wait...didnt like the direction VH is going...so he quits and goes on to pull "just a gigilo" and "california girls", out of his butt...LMAO

Eat em and smile was a good record...

[Chris Scott]

Great singer
Fun songs
Fun read.

You guys are ZERO percent fun.


Ha!

...you called it.


...and fwiw, if one is to evaluate Sammy Hagar on his relative contribution to VH, fine - you may (or may not) prefer DLR over him. But as a person, I can tell you that I've met far, far worse. I rented him a motorcycle years ago for a video shoot, (red '68 Norton Commando Fastback, just like his own, for those of you that actually care;)) and spent half a day with him, just hanging out, talking about all kinds of stuff, and I found him to be intelligent, astute, polite, and as much as anything else, a pretty FUN guy who also (quite refreshingly) didn't seem to take himself too seriously.

[sahhas]

i still want to read this book, it sounds interesting.
as for the continued DLR vs hagar debate....it is sort of like arguing apples and bowling balls....i liked sam in the 11 yrs he was in vh, but in listening back to the stuff, i prefer the vh of '77-84. those albums were perfect. there were always songs on the hagar lead vh that i didn't love, never the case w/ the original albums....and i still think the 2 DLR songs on the 1st greatest hits album are great!!!! i guess this will never end....
hopefully the new album will someday see the light of day.....

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

I agree. I've posted this before but IMHO if EVH had released Amsterdam as it was recorded on Diver Down, folks would be talking about how epic a tune that was.

I already said Balance gave me new hope for the band after the lame OU812 and Carnal Knowledge albums. I thought Amsterdam was great.

To me is seems Eddie settled into the dreaded rut (as many guitarists do) in the Sammy years of playing the same old licks over and over.. He finally got something going again for Balance that sounded great (including a massive improvement in tone, over effected, but still an improvement). Oh well, its so easy to be an armchair guitarist, he was my guitar hero for as long as he was recording albums.

I can appreciate both bands, and really that's what it was. :)

[musicman10_1]

Yep.

I also remember one particular NAMM concert when Ed got his head handed to him by Albert Lee and Steve Morse. He basically just quit playing in the middle of a tune and watched them with his jaw on the floor.

I was at that Biff Baby's All Star show and I don't quite remember it like that. I do remember that the band played one song after another that suited Albert Lee and Steve Morse style-wise and Eddie was given an opportunity to fit in.

It was an amazing night of very long and flashy guitar playing from 3 world class players.

[tradarama]

he never really spoke a lot about how he got into singing and found he had a world class voice. He speaks volumes about hard work (which is admirable) but I could work 5X as hard and get nowhere w/ my voice.....never stops to be thankful for that gift.

As far as singers...I prefer DLR because his off-norm way was what matched up w/ early Eddie playing to put them on the map. Sammy def took them in a different place but a more mature place (not as raw).

[sahhas]

sammy's lyrics are "a more mature place (not as raw)."????

i never really thought that.
he's no bono/u2 circa "the joshua tree"

[Poison Pencil]

sammy's lyrics are "a more mature place (not as raw)."????

i never really thought that.
he's no bono/u2 circa "the joshua tree"
Sammy is definately cleaner around the edges than DLR

[big mike]

My favorite Van Hagar tune:

The love line is never straight and narrow
Unless your love is tried and true
We take a chance with new beginnings

Still we try (Oooh)
Win or lose (Oooh)
Take the highs (Oooh)
With the blues (Oooh)

Always one more
You're never satisfied
Never one for all with you
It's only one for me
So, why draw the line?
Meet you half the way
And you don't know what that means
Oh, yeah

I feel like a running politician
Oh! Just tryin' to please you all the time
I given you my self with no conditions

Goin' wide (Oooh)
Runnin' long (Oooh)
Feelin' lost (Oooh)
But not for long (Oooh)

Always one more
You're never satisfied
Never one for all with you
It's only one for me
So, why draw the line?
Meet you half the way
When you don't know what that means
Whoa, yeah

(Guitar Solo)

Always one more
You're never satisfied
Never one for all with you
It's only one for me
So, why draw the line?
Meet you half the way
When you don't know what that means

I'll meet you half the way
Whoa yeah!
I'll meet you half the way
Whoa!
I'll meet you half the way


Roth can't touch it.

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

My favorite Van Hagar tune:




Roth can't touch it.



5150 was a great album :)

Sammy can't touch Roth's stuff either ... it comes down to saying, which is better, black or white? There is no winning the argument, it's just a personal preference.

[big mike]

5150 was a great album :)

Sammy can't touch Roth's stuff either ... it comes down to saying, which is better, black or white? There is no winning the argument, it's just a personal preference.


No, I'm right, and the roth lovers are wrong, I thought we covered that.

:rotflmaoJ/K of course.

[eddie101]

5150 was a great album :)

Sammy can't touch Roth's stuff either ... it comes down to saying, which is better, black or white? There is no winning the argument, it's just a personal preference.

Roth never had the vocal range that Sammy had/has, and there is no doubt who is more talented.

Just a personal preference? Well, I root for the Redskins but that does not mean they are talented. ;)

[tonydetiger]

I'm on the Hagar side of the arguement personally, since admittedly I got hooked to VH during his tenure. But, I appreciate the Roth era music too. At their respective times, VH was putting out new music and touring. Those were the days.

As far as the book is concerned, it's written like Sammy talked his way through the writing process. It's an interesting read, and it is insightful to see his experiences, both in and out of Van Halen. If you like Sammy, or anything he's ever done, read it.

[Fred Farkus]

I think Pleasure Dome is a good example of the awesome potential that Van Hagar had but unfortunately never fully exploited. That was a killer tune but most of their stuff was good time party anthems with zero swagger. Hagar just couldn't pull it off and came off as a boorish frat boy to me, nice guy that he may be. Roth brought the real party- swagger, attitude, and made it cool, fun, and hilarious simultaneously. Regardless of his technical vocal ability, he was a hell of an entertainer and light years ahead of Hagar in that dept. I loved Hagar in Montrose but IMO that was the peak of his career.

[big mike]

Wait.

Hagar = Frat Boy
Roth = Serious Front man?

Did we watch/listen to the same band??

[Fred Farkus]

Reading Is Fundamental, Mike.

I never said Roth was the "serious" front man. I said he brought the real party and was truly fun- not the bumbling boorish drunk at the neighborhood BBQ that everyone wishes would just go home like Hagar acted- which btw was the way he acted when I saw him on his solo tour pre-VanHagar.

[sausagefingers]

Regarding Sammy's lyrics: Admittedly 'Get Up' and 'Source of Infection' are about the silliest lyrics ever, but stuff like 5150, Mine All Mine, and Deja Vu (Take Me Back) easily make up for it. He is very philosophical at times.

[Gasp100]

"Alan Holdsworth has more talent in his pinkie than EVH has in his entire body" -- please, completely apples to oranges comparison. When Holdsworth can write a single that charts and is still in people's memory 30 years after he wrote it, then we'll talk. (I love Holdsworth btw, Metal Fatigue is one of my all time favorite albums).

[Gasp100]

Reading Is Fundamental, Mike.

I never said Roth was the "serious" front man. I said he brought the real party and was truly fun- not the bumbling boorish drunk at the neighborhood BBQ that everyone wishes would just go home like Hagar acted- which btw was the way he acted when I saw him on his solo tour pre-VanHagar.

Agree. Hagar is the Jimmy Buffett of hard rock - nice, amiable, party-goer attitude... safe, mildy entertaining. IMHO, YMMV, ad nauseum. Personally I think DLR was kind of a clown, but somehow he just fit the mold for early VH. Maybe it was just Eddie who changed?
I just feel like that change was drastic... even with the addition of keyboards on 1984 that was a very, very good album front to back. I can't say the same for any album afterwards.

[tooter007]

I think DLR sums up this age old argument pretty well....

At night I walk this stinkin' street past the crazies on my block
And I see the same old faces and I hear that same old talk
And I'm searching for the latest thing, a break in this routine
I'm talkin' some new kicks, ones like you ain't never seen

[guitkrazy]

I honestly believe that after DLR left VH he figured the boys would be lost. When Hagar joined VH he was already a successful solo artist, in the book He even jokes about having to take a pay cut when he joined VH. The band VH was in serious trouble before him joining- I believe it was due to no direction and mismanagement. Hagar not only introduced VH to the commercial mainstream of music, he also gave them a sense of direction. Though I feel any VH is Great I feel Hagar's era provided more stability & success. I would also like to note- Look how many albums Sammy has put out since his departure from VH, vs how many VH has put out since. We keep hearing about a new killer VH album since DLR re-joined but havent heard anything. Frustrating!

[big mike]

Reading Is Fundamental, Mike.


Nice, thanks for the slam.

[sahhas]

this:
" successful solo artist, in the book He even jokes about having to take a pay cut when he joined VH"

i don't understand this.
he did have a successful solo career,
& his montrose, standing hampton, and voa albums were all platinum.

but w/ vh:
5150 sold 6 mil
ou812 sold 4 mil
fu...& balance sold 3 mil each

seems like he sold more w/ the vh boys. granted w/ album and tour $ he's splitting it 4 ways (or whatever share MA got), but i would think the vh music machine was way bigger than the solo SH machine ever was... just doesn't seem to add up to me...

plus you add to the fact that 1984 was a 10 mil seller for vh....i think the VH gang was doing way better than hagar for the most part....but maybe it's all band vs. solo economics maybe....

i will grant that it seems like sammy had a more diversified base-i remember the song off "heavy metal" soundtrack was big in the early 80s, etc....but still doesn't seem that over all was bigger than the vh machine....

[Gasp100]

this:
" successful solo artist, in the book He even jokes about having to take a pay cut when he joined VH"

i don't understand this.
he did have a successful solo career,
& his montrose, standing hampton, and voa albums were all platinum.

but w/ vh:
5150 sold 6 mil
ou812 sold 4 mil
fu...& balance sold 3 mil each

seems like he sold more w/ the vh boys. granted w/ album and tour $ he's splitting it 4 ways (or whatever share MA got), but i would think the vh music machine was way bigger than the solo SH machine ever was... just doesn't seem to add up to me...

plus you add to the fact that 1984 was a 10 mil seller for vh....i think the VH gang was doing way better than hagar for the most part....but maybe it's all band vs. solo economics maybe....

i will grant that it seems like sammy had a more diversified base-i remember the song off "heavy metal" soundtrack was big in the early 80s, etc....but still doesn't seem that over all was bigger than the vh machine....

Dude, it's Hagar math... One, two, three lock box

Suckers walk, money talks!
But it can't touch my three lock box!
Uh! Oh, yeah!
Mysteries of the days of old.
You find the key, you got the gold.
One, two, three lock box.
One, two, three lock box.
One, two, three lock box.
One, two, three lock box.
Treasure's here, sunken there.
Buried treasure's everywhere.
One, two, three lock box.
One, two, three lock box.
Don't go far, circle close.
The father, son, the holy ghost.
To the trinity, I raise a toast!
Ahh, yea!
One, two, three lock box.
One, two, three lock box.
One, two, three lock box.
One, two, three lock box.
-solo-
Secrets of the trinity lie within the number three.
Uh! Hey!
One, two, three lock box.
One, two, three lock box.
One, two, three lock box.
One, two, three lock box

[big mike]

Hagar was selling out arenas. He was the draw with hired guns for the band, thus lion's share of the $$ from touring went into his pocket.

Record sales never have been the biggest money maker for the artist, the tours are.
record sales are for the suits in the office building.

[big mike]

And 1984 got big off of Jump.

That's like judging all toto's output by 'Africa'.

[jtm622]

this:
" successful solo artist, in the book He even jokes about having to
take a pay cut when he joined VH"

i don't understand this.
he did have a successful solo career,
& his montrose, standing hampton, and voa albums were all platinum.

but w/ vh:
5150 sold 6 mil
ou812 sold 4 mil
fu...& balance sold 3 mil each


The "pay cut" came when he first joined Van Halen, not after that string of multi-platinum records were released...

[big mike]

Besides that the dude is a helluva businessman.

He makes far more money in his business endeavors than the music biz has paid him./

[swa]

Dude, it's Hagar math... One, two, three lock box

One, two, three lock box.
One, two, three lock box.
One, two, three lock box.
One, two, three lock box.


I have nothing against Sammy, EVH, DLR, Mike or Alex. I wish them all well. But these are hands down, IMHO, the most asinine lyrics ever!

[Boomer]

IIRC from the book, Sammy said that VH was getting only 17% of record and concert sales while Sammy was getting the lion's share of his record and concert deals and he really did take a pay cut to join the brothers.

[big mike]

I have nothing against Sammy, EVH, DLR, Mike or Alex. I wish them all well. But these are hands down, IMHO, the most asinine lyrics ever!


yeah because the brilliant mind of Roth resorting to covers like 'Just a Giggalo', and 'that's life' is such foreward thinking.

[sws1]

This transcript pretty much describes everything I ever thought of DLR.

This was Axl and Sebastian Bach talking about meeting DLR and hanging out at the Rainbow in LA with him. This was on Eddie Trunk's radio show.
- - - -

Bach: Oh my god. Just my side of the David Lee Roth thing, he.... um, I remember him taking us out there and I was in the middle of Axl and David and I remember vividly Brett Michaels came and to the table and goes "Hey man, can I sit down with you guys?" and we go "NO!" So anyway Dave is really being cool and he's being funny. He orders a drink and he's like this "Medic!" like he's being total Dave, but the more whiskey he drinks the meaner he gets, and I just sense this vibe and than, uh and than, the way I remember it, he takes one shot of Jack, looks over at you and me and he goes "Well, it looks like I got a couple pretenders to my throne right here.", and you looked at me like "What did he just say?" Cause I......

Axl: I just remember you going "Duuude!", it was like.... (higher voice) "Why are you being such a dick?"

[swa]

yeah because the brilliant mind of Roth resorting to covers like 'Just a Giggalo', and 'that's life' is such foreward thinking.

I'm not disagreeing, (maybe a little, Roth's covers were way out of the box for that time. Not my cup of tea, but different and unexpected.)

But as soon as I heard Three Lock Box as a 12 or 13 year old, I was scratching my head.

Whatever, it got tons of airplay at the time and I'm sure helped his career. Which is more than my songwriting ever acomplished.

Sammy seems like a real nice likeable guy. I haven't read the book only some excepts online, but what I did read seemed a little mean spirited. Quite a departure from everything else I've heard or read about him, which has been overwhelmingly positive.

Whatever, he seem very cool, I wish everyone involved well, I doubt I'll buy any music from any of them again, but I still hate the 3 lock box song.

[big mike]

Fair enough, it's all opinion.

When you read the book (I have) there's really not much at all of the bad stuff, and what is bad seems to come from more a 'sad' place then a mean spirited place.

Context is everything I guess

And I agree 3 lock box words stupid.
Fun tune to jam on though. ;)

[Stike]

I have nothing against Sammy, EVH, DLR, Mike or Alex. I wish them all well. But these are hands down, IMHO, the most asinine lyrics ever!

Once again, compared to "Black And Blue" it's pretty clever.

[swa]

When you read the book (I have) there's really not much at all of the bad stuff, and what is bad seems to come from more a 'sad' place then a mean spirited place.


Good to hear, I think I read some rough drafts, linked from here. While some of the insight into that world was facinating, I just didn't need or want to hear some of the petty personal stuff. Everyone I know who's met Sammy says he is a terrific guy, I'm happy to leave my impression at that. I can't help Ed no matter what his issues are, so I don't really need to know about his demons. If I could help I would, but I can't so I'd just rather not know and wish him well.

Once again, compared to "Black And Blue" it's pretty clever.


That sounds like an excellent reason NOT to listen to black and blue, I might just crank Jamie's crying, though.

[Stike]

That sounds like an excellent reason NOT to listen to black and blue, I might just crank Jamie's crying, though.


I actually kind of like "Black And Blue" despite the lyrics. I'll gladly take that over "Dreams" or "Right Now".

[Fred Farkus]

Nice, thanks for the slam.

Hey Mike, do you like being misquoted or mis-paraphrased? Thanks, I didn't think so. At least give someone the basic respect to read their words before responding. That's all I'm saying.

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

Roth never had the vocal range that Sammy had/has, and there is no doubt who is more talented.

Just a personal preference? Well, I root for the Redskins but that does not mean they are talented. ;)


Range is only a small part of the whole picture. Roth and Eddie were such a killer combination in the early days .... lots of friction, but that was the cool thing about it. From what I've seen Van Hagar is way less regarded than Van Halen... I like Sammy too.

Let's see where this poll takes us! :)

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=985126

[eddie101]

... but just for kicks I'll make a poll to see if I'm right that Roth was more popular. :)

For us guitar geeks, yes, I'd say Roth may be more "popular" but at the end of the day the focal point should be about the songs rather than guitar wanking. IMHO, Van Hagar wrote better songs and played better solos that fit/complemented the songs better. Sammy also talked LESS which is + in my book.

[big mike]

For us guitar geeks, yes, I'd say Roth may be more "popular" but at the end of the day the focal point should be about the songs rather than guitar wanking. IMHO, Van Hagar wrote better songs and played better solos that fit/complemented the songs better. Sammy also talked LESS which is + in my book.


this.

[big mike]

I actually kind of like "Black And Blue" despite the lyrics. I'll gladly take that over "Dreams" or "Right Now".

I don't hear lyrics like a lot of folks. I hear the singer like an instrument. Make sense? It could be gobeldy gook for all I know most cases.
I'l be singing them and have no concept, I don't put time into analyzing lyrics.

as an 'INSTRUMENT' Hagar's voice is much more pleasing to me.
Tone, pitch and phrasing resonate with me much moreso.

As a human being, he seems much more positive.

both things I like.

Black and blue is a cool tune in that perspective. Can't say i really know what the words are, I'd have to look.

[Stike]

For us guitar geeks, yes, I'd say Roth may be more "popular" but at the end of the day the focal point should be about the songs rather than guitar wanking. IMHO, Van Hagar wrote better songs and played better solos that fit/complemented the songs better. Sammy also talked LESS which is + in my book.

Just my personal preference but I like the songs on Fair Warning way more than "Dreams" and "Right Now". The solo on "One Foot Out The Door" kils.

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

this.
I guess if you like popish love songs, then yes he did that better. Roth's tunes were wayyyyyy better IMO. Sammy is a great singer and I totally can appreciate his work, but I liked him much more in his Montrose and solo work than Van Halen.

[Cody]

This transcript pretty much describes everything I ever thought of DLR.

This was Axl and Sebastian Bach talking about meeting DLR and hanging out at the Rainbow in LA with him. This was on Eddie Trunk's radio show.
- - - -

Bach: Oh my god. Just my side of the David Lee Roth thing, he.... um, I remember him taking us out there and I was in the middle of Axl and David and I remember vividly Brett Michaels came and to the table and goes "Hey man, can I sit down with you guys?" and we go "NO!" So anyway Dave is really being cool and he's being funny. He orders a drink and he's like this "Medic!" like he's being total Dave, but the more whiskey he drinks the meaner he gets, and I just sense this vibe and than, uh and than, the way I remember it, he takes one shot of Jack, looks over at you and me and he goes "Well, it looks like I got a couple pretenders to my throne right here.", and you looked at me like "What did he just say?" Cause I......

Axl: I just remember you going "Duuude!", it was like.... (higher voice) "Why are you being such a dick?"
Kinda funny - they're way too cool to hang with Bret Michaels, and gladly tell him to his face... and then they're offended that DLR is too cool for them?

Classic comeuppance. Could possibly be topped if Robert Plant told them all to take a hike.

:bonk..:rotflmao

[Fred Farkus]

Kinda funny - they're way too cool to hang with Bret Michaels, and gladly tell him to his face... and then they're offended that DLR is too cool for them?

Classic comeuppance. Could possibly be topped if Robert Plant told them all to take a hike.

:bonk..:rotflmao

And then Steve Marriot and Terry Reid walk in, look at each other, roll their eyes and laugh, then yell, "Alright all you posers, get outta the bar!". ;-)

Lol!

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

Poll update:


Teh ppl have spoken :red


http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=985126


:)

[sahhas]

got the red book for xmas. been reading it slowly.
i'm just getting ready to read the VH (5150) stuff.
you know his story is interesting. the coming from nothing, etc.
i wish he would have gotten an editor to work w/ him on this book.
it is jumbled, it could use some help in the execution part.

but it is interesting.
he seems pretty honest (maybe too honest? is that possible?)
he doesnt' really paint a great picture of the record industry i think.
seems like most of his living comes from his wise business investments, start ups (of course sounds like some misfires too)

ok, his house in mill valley he bought in late 70s. is WAY F***ING COOL.
wow oh wow. i know he has a few houses. but that one, man!
maybe money can't buy happiness, but it sure can buy cool houses! ha.
can't wait to finish it....

my wife read all the juicy VH stuff, her comment on sammy: "he's a freak"
that made me laugh...

[fast ricky love]

Roth really didn't want to do Jump, and wanted to do I'll Wait even less..... I think that's part of the reason he bailed out, because things were changing where he didn't want to go.


Where almost every song of the Roth era was a good tune or at least interesting to dig into for a musician. Sammy tunes came across as more generic and there was nothing that the band was doing that was really interesting. Eddie and band seemed to settle in by then and quit their exploring. There was no mystery as far as lyrics either.

Yup. Not to mention VH was a COCK ROCK band to me, that's why DLR was better.

[LivingTheDream]

Kinda funny - they're way too cool to hang with Bret Michaels, and gladly tell him to his face... and then they're offended that DLR is too cool for them?

Classic comeuppance. Could possibly be topped if Robert Plant told them all to take a hike.

:bonk..:rotflmao

Haha. Very funny. But true, nonetheless.

I read the book and really enjoyed several of the aspects of which I had no prior knowledge of, such as a few of Sammy's businesses that he did very well with. (Mountain biking ventures, etc.)

At the end of the day Sammy has several decades (4) of being successful. In the music business where a career may last 4 months or 4 years; 4 decades is quite impressive. Sammy is a modern day musical and business, "Midas."

[captain_bob]

I was beginning to feel like I was the only one. The lyrics are the last thing I listen too. Similarly I listen to melodies instead of the story being told. I guess that's why I like foreign rock music just as much as music in English.

I don't hear lyrics like a lot of folks. I hear the singer like an instrument. Make sense? It could be gobeldy gook for all I know most cases.
I'l be singing them and have no concept, I don't put time into analyzing lyrics.

as an 'INSTRUMENT' Hagar's voice is much more pleasing to me.
Tone, pitch and phrasing resonate with me much moreso.

As a human being, he seems much more positive.

both things I like.

Black and blue is a cool tune in that perspective. Can't say i really know what the words are, I'd have to look.

[MKB]

The only thing I can figure about VH is the glorious early years with DLR were a perfect storm of musicianship and attitude as compared to the rest of the popular music at the time. Keep in mind the first album was released in 1978, and many of us are old enough to remember those times (the country was depressed in general, and was in the later years of disco fever). Check out the top 100 songs of 1978; #1 was a Andy Gibb song:

http://www.musicoutfitters.com/topsongs/1978.htm

Just look at that list a minute; you can count the number of real rock songs on one hand and have fingers left over. The first VH album changed everything.

I think early VH was basically a magical moment in time that cannot be recreated. We can enjoy and reminisce, and newer generations can enjoy the wonder of EVH's playing and DLR's showmanship, but I think the time it was released had a lot to do with their transcendence. I remember hearing Eruption in '78, it sounded like something from another dimension.

Also I never liked Sammy at all. Can't stand him. I saw him in concert when he opened for ZZ Top during the Eliminator tour, and it made me sick. The two biggest musical disappointments I can recall are when ZZ's Afterburner was released, and when I first heard 5150 on the radio (did not know DLR had quit before then). However the comments in this thread makes me want to get Red.

As far as Sammy joining VH, it seemed to be a move for money only. I'm not saying that Van Hagar albums weren't good (although I can't stand them), obviously lots of folks do. However their moment as earth-changers had passed. Maybe Ed lived the meaning of some Pete Townshend lyrics:

"Goodbye all you punks, stay young and stay high
Hand me my checkbook and I'll crawl off to die
Like a woman in childbirth grown ugly in a flash
I've seen magic and pain, now I'm recycling trash"

[Rotten]

Didn't Sammy coin the lyric, "Only time will tell if we can stand the test of time."? Bad lyric, but strangely prophetic.

[A-Bone]

Didn't Sammy coin the lyric, "Only time will tell if we can stand the test of time."? Bad lyric, but strangely prophetic.

Yes. I'm pretty sure that epic tautology comes from "Why Can't This Be Love".

[eddie101]

Didn't Sammy coin the lyric, "Only time will tell if we can stand the test of time."? Bad lyric, but strangely prophetic.


Yep, it's bad but it's probably better than anything DLR wrote. IIRC, the only reason - ok the main reason ;) - that they had DLR was because he had a PA system of his own. EVH also had to tune his guitar to Eb not because it sounded better but in order to compensate for DLR's limited vocal range. Better showman perhaps but better singer than Sammy? You must be kidding me. I'm not even a huge fan of Sammy, FWIW.

[Sean French]

I just finished reading Red.
Interesting stories.

I've always thought Sammy was a cool strait up guy.

[sahhas]

Just finished this book, that i got for xmas.
It is interesting, maybe "too honest" at times (his antics during the for unlawful tour... Not sure i needed that info...)

I do like his discussion of the business side of rock, doesn't sound fun. Or really glamourous really, but interesting to read actual $ numbers spent on some things...
his smarts in business are amazing, not really sure why he cares about the VH camp anymore

There was one bit where he was talking about the roth tour he did, not sure where he got his numbers in talking that he sold more albums than the roth era, seems odd and skewed.
I will grant that he did work hard. The breakup still seems a bit odd to me and his comment that he should have just left at 10 yrs...a lot of indirect communication, passive agresive/bad manager/and addiction...probably not good recipe for a band staying together

[R3deemed]

not really sure why he cares about the VH camp anymore
Spurned lover perhaps?

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[eddie101]

Just like a retired football player Sammy probably misses the scene; large venues and millions of people screaming his name. I don't blame him one bit but hooking up with VH brothers/son again might be too much of $$ to pay. YMMV.

[brenkj]

It's weird:

Old Van Halen: Awesome
Old Hagar (both solo and Montrose): Awesome
VH + Hagar: Some of the worst "rock" of the last 20 years - watered down, predictable, manufactured, and sometimes just plain moronic. The only band that could rival VH's precipitous decline into complete crap-dom is ZZ Top going from legit, Texas blues masters to putting out "Sleeping Bag". I realize a lot of this comes to personal taste, but Van Hagar borders on being empirically bad. And trying to refute this by citing record sales just helps prove the point, since it's proof that the music became so watered-down that it appeals to folks who aren't even "real" music fans, and instead just want something they can pop in their ears to help kill the 30 minutes on the stair-stepper at the gym.

I eagerly await the s**t-storm of responses.

[big mike]

troll much?

[Smakutus]

troll much?

Yeah no shit...

Jeff

[s2y]

troll much?

:agree

[John Hurtt]

It's weird:

Old Van Halen: Awesome
Old Hagar (both solo and Montrose): Awesome
VH + Hagar: Some of the worst "rock" of the last 20 years - watered down, predictable, manufactured, and sometimes just plain moronic. The only band that could rival VH's precipitous decline into complete crap-dom is ZZ Top going from legit, Texas blues masters to putting out "Sleeping Bag". I realize a lot of this comes to personal taste, but Van Hagar borders on being empirically bad. And trying to refute this by citing record sales just helps prove the point, since it's proof that the music became so watered-down that it appeals to folks who aren't even "real" music fans, and instead just want something they can pop in their ears to help kill the 30 minutes on the stair-stepper at the gym.

I eagerly await the s**t-storm of responses.



Hope you get none...the obvious troll bait was weak...

[brenkj]

Not sure what "troll" means in this context, but I'm going to assume it's negative.

[Stike]

It's weird:

Old Van Halen: Awesome
Old Hagar (both solo and Montrose): Awesome
VH + Hagar: Some of the worst "rock" of the last 20 years - watered down, predictable, manufactured, and sometimes just plain moronic. The only band that could rival VH's precipitous decline into complete crap-dom is ZZ Top going from legit, Texas blues masters to putting out "Sleeping Bag". I realize a lot of this comes to personal taste, but Van Hagar borders on being empirically bad. And trying to refute this by citing record sales just helps prove the point, since it's proof that the music became so watered-down that it appeals to folks who aren't even "real" music fans, and instead just want something they can pop in their ears to help kill the 30 minutes on the stair-stepper at the gym.

I eagerly await the s**t-storm of responses.

troll much?

I looked at all his other posts, 1 out of 40-something so I'd say not much.:p

[rob2001]

Not sure what "troll" means in this context, but I'm going to assume it's negative.

Well, when a post ends with " I eagerly await the shitstorm", odd are it's very intentional trolling.

[Bob Maximus]

I looked at all his other posts, 1 out of 40-something so I'd say not much.:p


Quick learner to the fine art of the troll.

[Fred Farkus]

Besides that the dude is a helluva businessman.

He makes far more money in his business endeavors than the music biz has paid him./

When I start liking music based on the artist's business acumen I'll be impressed. Until then I'll pass, thanks.

[dhdfoster]

Not sure what "troll" means in this context, but I'm going to assume it's negative.

They are not using the term "troll" correctly at all. Having a strong opinion about something that others don't like is not "trolling".

[Grun]

Well, when a post ends with " I eagerly await the shitstorm", odd are it's very intentional trolling.

Maybe so, but with all the Van Hagar love around here I can see where he is coming from.

Several other people said basically the same thing (save the part about ZZ Top) and I happen to agree. Hagar is a hack. Lot's of energy, hard working, possibly even a likable guy, but a hack as a musician. People say DLR has no range? Hagar's got about 3 notes and his sophomoric attempts at lyric writing try way to hard to prove how cool he is. Poundcake? Wow.

In his book he constantly references his own greatness in the context of everyone around him. He took a pay cut to join VH? Don't know, but if it weren't for his work with VH (and I Can't Drive 65-where he almost ruins the only good idea he ever had) I never would have heard of the guy. When he started talking about his custom Ferrari I wanted to puke.

In the final analysis comparing Van Hagar to DLR VH is akin to comparing Aerosmith to the Rolling Stones.

Sammy is a lucky guy. I will give him that.

[brenkj]

I'd really appreciate it if someone could explain "troll," so I can decide whether I think I am one.

Thanks

[mik777]

Via the Urban Dictionary:

Troll; One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=message%20board) with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument

[Smakutus]

They are not using the term "troll" correctly at all. Having a strong opinion about something that others don't like is not "trolling".

Having an opinion is cool... having an opinion and adding this at the end:

"I eagerly await the s**t-storm of responses."

Makes it a troll post.

Jeff

[brenkj]

Thanks for the definition. That was not my goal; I've felt that way about VH for about 20 years, but had never let it out before. I actually think they started sucking before Hagar joined (I thought "Jump" was a steaming load also). I guess I was aware my post might lead to some equally strong opinions, but I kinda thought that was the purpose of the thread to begin with.

[big mike]

Hey resurecting a week dead thread by throwing down the gauntlet right that, seems like what it seems like.

I really don't care who like sor doesn't like Hagar. I love his music, attitude, and vibe.
Van Hagar era's my favorite, and I really don't care who agrees.

Problem is the haters always have to attack without merit or any kind of substance to their disagreements.

[Bob Maximus]

I'll never forget the movie Heavy Metal, and the song kicking it during several of the scenes. Awesome tune for an awesome movie. Hagar rocks. No doubt about it.

[pete james]

Montrose debut album......best rock debut EVER!!

Oh,and the book`s not too bad either....:drink

[Grun]

Let' see ............sammy is a hack ......he is a " lucky guy " ...........and you say you would not know who he is if it were not for van halen.

Quite interesting being that you are spending so much time talking about him.

Let's hear something personal about your life ? Have some balls. Go ahead and give us some scoop on you. Make me believe you are not a hack. Make me believe you are not "lucky" to even be alive , go ahead ..........let's hear your perfect remarkable life story ...........I'll be waiting !


*Note to douche bag : Eddie pursued Hagar for the band
Eddie is the one that said in so many words that he now had somebody ( Hagar ) with better range to write with.

I will say " van halen" is DLR , but I can't watch that guy for more than 5 minutes not to mention most of the time he sounds like shit, do you want me to pull up the list of live recordings and you tube vids of him ? You really don't want me doing that...........we will be here for days :bong
Pretty simple really. Never did like Van Hagar and I just got done reading the book based on positive comments on this site. The book really didn't change my mind. BTW, I do feel pretty lucky. And I sure didn't/don't work as hard as Sammy has. I may even be a hack. But so is Sammy. My opinion. Obviously you are entitled to yours as well. Sammy.

[Stratobuc]

Montrose debut album......best debut EVER!!

Oh,and the book`s not too bad either....:drink


Here here. That is probably the PERFECT rock album.

[tsh57]

Montrose debut album......best rock debut EVER!!

Oh,and the book`s not too bad either....:drink


Absolutely. I wore out that album. Rock Candy, indeed.

[stvnscott]

Pretty simple really. Never did like Van Hagar and I just got done reading the book based on positive comments on this site. The book really didn't change my mind. BTW, I do feel pretty lucky. And I sure didn't/don't work as hard as Sammy has. I may even be a hack. But so is Sammy. My opinion. Obviously you are entitled to yours as well. Sammy.

How exactly can a person who works hard to achieve a set of goals and succeeds in achieving said goals while getting rich doing it properly described as a hack?

By your logic, can I call Chris Martin a hack? Good. I never really did like him.

[s2y]

I've posted my VH vs Van Hagar rant a few times lately, so I'll keep it short.

Musicians have a tendency to make everything a competition and invent rules. For whatever reason, you can't like DLR and Hagar. BS.

I understand that the band changed when Sammy came along, but can we guarantee the hypothetical notion that the band would have stayed the same if DLR didn't leave the band?

[baddmann28]

The back and forth on this thread is hilarious. I'm right, no I'm right, no I'm right. It's music folks not a competition. Who cares who sold more, who has a higher range, geeze. In my opinion, Dave VH was great, Sam VH was great. Two different bands, two different styles, two different times. Enjoy them both for what they were. Or Enjoy one for what it was and ignore the other, who cares?

[BKL71]

I got a copy of "Red" for Christmas and I read it cover to cover. I have to say that it is an interesting read. I can tell that Sammy definitely has quite a distaste for both Eddie Van Halen and David Lee Roth. He isn't too fond of Ronnie Montrose either, although he does give him kudos for not screwing him out of his royalties after they parted ways. Sammy just seems like a hard-working, down-to-earth guy who is thankful to be where he is.

[R3deemed]

I got a copy of "Red" for Christmas and I read it cover to cover. I have to say that it is an interesting read. I can tell that Sammy definitely has quite a distaste for both Eddie Van Halen and David Lee Roth. He isn't too fond of Ronnie Montrose either, although he does give him kudos for not screwing him out of his royalties after they parted ways. Sammy just seems like a hard-working, down-to-earth guy who is thankful to be where he is.

This my biggest issue with Sam and the reason I won't read the book. It's one thing to air your dirty laundry, but Hagar doesn't seem to realize his *stuff* stinks just as bad as anyone else's. He's a pompous donkey butt.

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[SteveO]

I understand that the band changed when Sammy came along, but can we guarantee the hypothetical notion that the band would have stayed the same if DLR didn't leave the band?

The musical changes that most people attribute to Hagar entering the band were already evident on 1984, which was the first album recorded in Eddie's 5150 studio (IIRC). Eddie was going in that direction before Roth even left the band.

[jekylmeister]

This my biggest issue with Sam and the reason I won't read the book. It's one thing to air your dirty laundry, but Hagar doesn't seem to realize his *stuff* stinks just as bad as anyone else's. He's a pompous donkey butt.

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Sorry, dude. While I don't know Sammy, I have seen a lot of interviews, read his book, followed his career and I have seen nothing that would warrant you comment. What is the basis for it?

[R3deemed]

Sorry, dude. While I don't know Sammy, I have seen a lot of interviews, read his book, followed his career and I have seen nothing that would warrant you comment. What is the basis for it?

He's trashing everyone, but to listen to him, he's a saint....

...dude.

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[jekylmeister]

He's trashing everyone, but to listen to him, he's a saint....

...dude.

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Sorry if you dislike my use of the word "dude", but your reaction seems to be in sync with your attitude in general. While I have no skin in the game, I did not think that Sammy trashed anyone in his book. He seemed to have to laid some stuff out there that was a little 'ouchy', but presented as fact (The episode with Steven Stills was a good one ((and I love SS)). I have no reason to believe it wasn't factual. I did not read it as trashing anyone. Sorry. Dude.

[R3deemed]

Sorry if you dislike my use of the word "dude", but your reaction seems to be in sync with your attitude in general. While I have no skin in the game, I did not think that Sammy trashed anyone in his book. He seemed to have to laid some stuff out there that was a little 'ouchy', but presented as fact (The episode with Steven Stills was a good one ((and I love SS)). I have no reason to believe it wasn't factual. I did not read it as trashing anyone. Sorry. Dude.

Not sure what attitude you're referring to, but we can agree to disagree. I think Sammy is just acting like a spurned lover. I haven't read the book, but I've read plenty of snippets and seen enough interviews. I would simply prefer that he take the high (like Mike). He has not said anything negative about the whole thing. If anyone has place to, he does.

I perceived attitude from you based on your use of the word "dude". If none was intended, I recant. It's all good.

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[jekylmeister]

It's all good. Peace.