G system

[keychange]

Did you send it to TC? What was thier answer to you?


That it would be fixed in the next update.......hehe now if only they had a reason so release it lol

[Nomadgtr]

Well this forum software is a PITA if you want to search for 3-letter words, like wah. You can't. You have to spell wah with 4 letters if you want to search for it. Try that!

Try the Google search option. It works much better than the built in search engine. They added that option for that very reason.

[trsU2]

Yes, scrap metal! Think about it for a moment...If the new software version has any issues you will not be able to revert back to 2.0 versions! TC has only stated that the new version will include fixes for pedal lag and wah issues. There has been no mention of new effects.

I agree with you on the effects being very good...I love mine! I run mine thru a Diezel Herbert & ISP Decimator Pro Rack G and am very satisfied other than the lag issues with the pedal. As far as the editor is concerned, I could take it or leave it...not that critically important to me but would be cool.

Yeah, not being able to go back would suck. I fried the brain of my unit last year while updating to 2.0 (didn't wait long enough before unplugging unit) and it wasn't fun. I personally can live w/o the proposed updates. Some new effects or changes that will improve usability would be nice but I'm not at the point yet of beating down TC's door asking when and what.

So the editor just allows you to program changes on your PC instead of leaning over the floorboard?

[benttop]

So the editor just allows you to program changes on your PC instead of leaning over the floorboard?

Assuming it's a properly done editor, you should be able to copy and paste presets between locations. You should be able to save your configuration to a file and renew it any time you want. You should be able to save multiple configurations as files and load up the one that applies to a specific type of gig. The editor should also give you much more visibility into how the pedal works, which should give you new ideas about ways to use it. A well done editor expands the value of the unit.

[trsU2]

Assuming it's a properly done editor, you should be able to copy and paste presets between locations. You should be able to save your configuration to a file and renew it any time you want. You should be able to save multiple configurations as files and load up the one that applies to a specific type of gig. The editor should also give you much more visibility into how the pedal works, which should give you new ideas about ways to use it. A well done editor expands the value of the unit.


Wow, cool stuff...you're right: if done correctly.

[benttop]

I've just spent a week integrating the G-System to a Rivera Venus 6 amp. It's going to work pretty well with that amp but damn there's a lot of hum on the high gain channel. I ended up buying all new balanced patch cables, but I still had unacceptable levels of hum. Then I discovered that the patch cables were too close to the power tranny in the amp. When I moved them, a lot of the hum disappeared. So much for balanced cables - I thought they were supposed to protect against such noise, but no.

Even without the power tranny radiating emi into my cabling, I still have quite a bit of hum when I have the high gain channel selected. I finally resorted to heavy handed noise gate programming, but I just hate the way you can hear the hum as the gate closes. Not sure what else I can do though - I spent a LOT of time tweaking the gain structure throughout the system and I'm convinced everything is optimized.

The Venus 6 works pretty well with the G-System though. One thing I've never liked about the Rivera preamp design is that each channel has a boost. But the boost adds gain. I want all four sounds at the same level, but Rivera doesn't give you a means to do that. Enter the G-System. I just set an EQ on the two louder patches, set the que as wide as it goes and dialed back a few db on each band to even things out. I made up a custom cable that I plug into my Rocktron Patchmate so the G-System is doing all the channel switching on the amp. So it's like having a four-channel amp instead of two. Nice.

That expression pedal lag has got to go though! Yikes!

Here's my setup diagram:

http://www.foto.strayca.com/images/RiveraLashup.jpg

[trsU2]

I use 2 Ernie Ball VP Jr. 25K volume pedals and they work perfect.

I have the EB 6166 mono vol pedal and tried using it as an expression pedal but wasn't thrilled. Originally, TCE didn't recommend the EB vol pedals but guys have been getting them to work ok.

I've been using a Yamaha expression pedal, which isn't bad but I think I want to try a different EB vol pedal b/c it will actually take up about a 1/2 inch less on my very tight pedal board.

1. Is the 6166 a 250k pedal?
2. Will a pedal with a 25k pot work better for expression? If so, which EB is best?

Anyone?

[Laird_Williams]

I've just spent a week integrating the G-System to a Rivera Venus 6 amp. It's going to work pretty well with that amp but damn there's a lot of hum on the high gain channel. I ended up buying all new balanced patch cables, but I still had unacceptable levels of hum. Then I discovered that the patch cables were too close to the power tranny in the amp. When I moved them, a lot of the hum disappeared. So much for balanced cables - I thought they were supposed to protect against such noise, but no.


Balanced cables only reduce hum if the devices at both ends of the connection know how to handle balanced singals. Odds are not good that your guitar amp has balanced ins and outs.

You may well have a ground loop. Try a 2-channel isolation box like the ART or Morley/Ebtech between your G and your amp and see what happens.

[aksman]

Well, it's nice that the TC website just got a makeover...

maybe the EDITOR will look as pretty when it comes out in the next week or so...

after all, it is late September and Oktober is approaching (unless their spelling of October wasn't a translation error, but rather a fictitious month that falls somewhere before Neverember).


.

[Mike33]

Would it make sense to use a Suhr Minimix between the G-System and the amps serial loop?
I read through a lot of threads and I'm not sure if the G-system has a "kill dry" (100% wet) what I suppose
is needed when using the Suhr Minimix.
How could I set the G-System to 100% wet?
Thanks for your comments!
Mike

[benttop]

Balanced cables only reduce hum if the devices at both ends of the connection know how to handle balanced singals. Odds are not good that your guitar amp has balanced ins and outs.

You may well have a ground loop. Try a 2-channel isolation box like the ART or Morley/Ebtech between your G and your amp and see what happens.

Kind of makes one wonder why they recommend them in the manual. I agree they shouldn't make a difference unless both ends support balanced, but that's not what the G-System manual says.

I'll try an isolator, thanks.

[sixstringmonk]

I had horrible amounts of hum with my amp (Carvin Legacy). Balanced cables ended up being a waste of money for me. I had to pick up two buzz-offs. For some reason, if I used both channels on one buzz-off, there was still a lot of hum. I had to use two separate buzz offs. Go figure.

[gbtommasi]

Kind of makes one wonder why they recommend them in the manual. I agree they shouldn't make a difference unless both ends support balanced, but that's not what the G-System manual says.

I'll try an isolator, thanks.

I had horrible amounts of hum with my amp (Carvin Legacy). Balanced cables ended up being a waste of money for me. I had to pick up two buzz-offs. For some reason, if I used both channels on one buzz-off, there was still a lot of hum. I had to use two separate buzz offs. Go figure.

All, i think we should avoid having more people buying (possibly very good and expensive) balanced cables to solve hum problems.

Balanced cables only help when you run long cables, because they cancel external noises (the negative pole and the shield of the cable are phase inverted, so that all noises captured by the cable are cancelled -sort of an humbucker huh? :)).

If noise is generated by the effects chain, ground loops, extra-high gain, and other problems not related with the environment, buying balanced cables will just help Mr. Van Den Hul buying his new Ferrari.
Moreover, as many have already noticed, amp connections are not balanced, so you can still have external noises cancelled (if hum is due to external sources), but you probably loose a portion of the signal (most likely high end).

[sixstringmonk]

The problem is that the G-Sys manual recommends you use balanced cables even if your loop is not balanced as long as the length is over 3 meters(?). When I had hum problems, I thought - they are right - I do need balanced cables. Of course I now know that is not the case. They should consider rewording that section of the manual.

[benttop]

The problem is that the G-Sys manual recommends you use balanced cables even if your loop is not balanced as long as the length is over 3 meters(?). When I had hum problems, I thought - they are right - I do need balanced cables. Of course I now know that is not the case. They should consider rewording that section of the manual.


That's why I spent over $100 on three short patch cables. It was a waste of my money, that's for sure. They didn't change the hum one bit. I suppose it's all right that I now have three very nice patch cables for my rack, but I could have put that money to better use.

[markmark]

after all, it is late September and Oktober is approaching (unless their spelling of October wasn't a translation error, but rather a fictitious month that falls somewhere before Neverember).

Classic.

[Itsik]

Balanced cables only reduce hum if the devices at both ends of the connection know how to handle balanced singals. Odds are not good that your guitar amp has balanced ins and outs.

You may well have a ground loop. Try a 2-channel isolation box like the ART or Morley/Ebtech between your G and your amp and see what happens.

Balanced cables help prevent signal loss/degredation when the signal needs to travel long distances and/or be around a lot of other audio/power cables like on a stage for instance. They are usefull even if one or both of the connected devices do not have balanced connectors.

Hum and hiss problems are usually grounding related, usually a ground loop of some sort.
A ground loop is something that can be prevented easily. You simply need to make sure that your amp is the ONLY part of your rig that is grounded.
All the cables in your system eventually lead to the amp, and all of them have a ground/negative lead in them, and this is what provides the grounding to all the other components of the rig. So make sure no other part of your rig is grounded electrically (especially not the G-System) and your home free.

Some times you play in venues that have serious grounding problems resulting in a lot of hiss/hum, but there's nothing you can really do about it accept for trying to connect to a differant outlet hoping the problem will be solved.

All the rest of the noise related problems (usually on the lead channels with high gain setting etc.) can be easilly solved with a wisely used gate.

[shredtheater]

Hey, slightly off topic from those grounding issue, could anyone answer these very simple questions for me??

1) i wanna put my g-system in a rack. I dont have any other rack stuff so i just want to fit the gsystem and my pedals. Is a 2U rack big enough??

2) Where abouts do i intergrate my wah pedal (crybaby) with the system?? Im connected using the effects loop. Where do i place the wah??

Thanks! Sorry for my stupdity!

[benttop]

Balanced cables help prevent signal loss/degredation when the signal needs to travel long distances and/or be around a lot of other audio/power cables like on a stage for instance. They are usefull even if one or both of the connected devices do not have balanced connectors.

Hum and hiss problems are usually grounding related, usually a ground loop of some sort.
A ground loop is something that can be prevented easily. You simply need to make sure that your amp is the ONLY part of your rig that is grounded.
All the cables in your system eventually lead to the amp, and all of them have a ground/negative lead in them, and this is what provides the grounding to all the other components of the rig. So make sure no other part of your rig is grounded electrically (especially not the G-System) and your home free.

Some times you play in venues that have serious grounding problems resulting in a lot of hiss/hum, but there's nothing you can really do about it accept for trying to connect to a differant outlet hoping the problem will be solved.

All the rest of the noise related problems (usually on the lead channels with high gain setting etc.) can be easilly solved with a wisely used gate.

That all seems ok from what I know. The thing is, I did isolate the G-System with a ground-lift plug, and it made no difference in the level of hum I'm hearing. The cables made no difference either. I'm at a loss to think where to go from here - the noise gate doesn't close fast enough to prevent hearing the hum, so maybe I'll need an outboard noise gate after the preamp, maybe in Loop 3 or between the G-System and the Effects Return on my amp.

[Itsik]

In most cases if the onboard gate can't handle the hum I don't thik any outboard gear can do it.
I'd suggest to try and trace the hum to find out exactly what's causing it, and then find the cure for it.
Here are a couple of things you might want to check first ...
Is the hum present with the guitar connected directly to the amp?
Is the hum present only on the lead channel?
Any hum when you turn the volume all the way up on the clean channel (with AND without the guitar connected)?
Are the amp and the g-sys connected to the same outlet?
Did you try switching to a differant outlet?

[benttop]

In most cases if the onboard gate can't handle the hum I don't thik any outboard gear can do it.
I'd suggest to try and trace the hum to find out exactly what's causing it, and then find the cure for it.
Here are a couple of things you might want to check first ...
Is the hum present with the guitar connected directly to the amp?
Is the hum present only on the lead channel?
Any hum when you turn the volume all the way up on the clean channel (with AND without the guitar connected)?
Are the amp and the g-sys connected to the same outlet?
Did you try switching to a differant outlet?


Is the hum present with the guitar connected directly to the amp? No
Is the hum present only on the lead channel? No, but you can hear it better there.
Any hum when you turn the volume all the way up on the clean channel (with AND without the guitar connected)? Some (guitar not connected to G-System but G-System connected to amp input)

Are the amp and the g-sys connected to the same outlet? Yes, G-System ground-lifted

Did you try switching to a differant outlet? Yes - no difference.
I'm pretty good at troubleshooting here, and there is no question in my mind the hum is coming from the G-System front end. If I unhook the cable from the G-System send to the input of the amp, it goes dead quiet. The G-System is ground-isolated with an adapter plug (all system grounds therefore revert to the amp) and I have the recommended TRS cables. I've set my input gain exactly where it should be, so I have no more adjustments I can make. I'm not running anything in any of the loops, and I have the comp off. What else is there? :) It seems to me the signal path is Guitar > GS input > A/D > Noise Gate > loop 4 send > Amp input. It goes straight to the noise gate because nothing is turned on before that. Yet that path between the A/D and Noise Gate seems to be where the hum is introduced.

[Itsik]

First off all I'm just trying to hep here and I hope it's ok with you.
Did you try to connect the G-Sys Output to the amp instead of the loop send?
Maybe the problem is with the send it self ?
It might also be worth trying to connect the G-Sys to a differant out let form the one the amp's connected to ...

[trsU2]

Hey, slightly off topic from those grounding issue, could anyone answer these very simple questions for me??

1) i wanna put my g-system in a rack. I dont have any other rack stuff so i just want to fit the gsystem and my pedals. Is a 2U rack big enough??

2) Where abouts do i intergrate my wah pedal (crybaby) with the system?? Im connected using the effects loop. Where do i place the wah??

Thanks! Sorry for my stupdity!


I think a 2 space would be cutting it close. I bought a used 3 space (shallow kind) and there's enough room to put a few pedals in. However, I have a tough time seeing the settings for the larger pedal (VS Route 66).

I use my Vox wah in one of the loops and pretty much have it programmed to be ON on every preset...that way, I can use it as normal. Only minor problem is it's 2 more cables going from pedalboard back to rack behind me.

[Frank1974]

I'm not running anything in any of the loops, and I have the comp off. What else is there? :) It seems to me the signal path is Guitar > GS input > A/D > Noise Gate > loop 4 send > Amp input. It goes straight to the noise gate because nothing is turned on before that. Yet that path between the A/D and Noise Gate seems to be where the hum is introduced.
Are you using your amplifier fx loop in the g-system insert loop?
If so you need to plug the insert send to the amp input, insert return to preamp out on amp(fx send), and L out on g-system to power amp in(fx return) on amp.

I have a Laney VH100R which has loops galore, pre-out/pow-in, 1 master loop switchable between insert/side-chain/bypass modes with return level, and seperate fx loops for each channel. The G-System is best when in the preamp out/poweramp in loop on my amp. I get no hum even on high gain channel on amp and compressor on and home made fuzz face in loop 1 on, and I'm even using those cheapo guitar leads you usually get free with cheap guitar packages for the loops(very thin and noisy when moved), except for the lead going to the front amp input is a Planet Waves shielded one end only guitar lead, and the same from my guitars to the g-system input.

[benttop]

Are you using your amplifier fx loop in the g-system insert loop?
If so you need to plug the insert send to the amp input, insert return to preamp out on amp(fx send), and L out on g-system to power amp in(fx return) on amp.

I have a Laney VH100R which has loops galore, pre-out/pow-in, 1 master loop switchable between insert/side-chain/bypass modes with return level, and seperate fx loops for each channel. The G-System is best when in the preamp out/poweramp in loop on my amp. I get no hum even on high gain channel on amp and compressor on and home made fuzz face in loop 1 on, and I'm even using those cheapo guitar leads you usually get free with cheap guitar packages for the loops(very thin and noisy when moved), except for the lead going to the front amp input is a Planet Waves shielded one end only guitar lead, and the same from my guitars to the g-system input.

Yeah, see message 1265 (about a dozen back from here) http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showpost.php?p=3012747&postcount=1265 - as you can see I am using the amp's loop as specified in the manual. I don't have any of the dirt boxes even connected to the GS loops yet, nor the Lehle - that's all planned. Right now I'm just trying to run the GS and the amp.

[Frank1974]

The only thing I can think of is the loop on the amp is causing the hum. Some loops are wired differently like parallel or serial, and some aren't true preout power in loops, sometimes the signal isn't sent 100% from the amp loop. I've seen this before in the past on an amp modding forum for Marshall Valvestate, caused awful hum too.

The only thing I can think of (apart from maybe a dodgy GS).

[jelyfinger]

Your problem is ground loops! Get an Ebtech hum eliminator! Works like a champ! I run my G System thru a Diezel Herbert and experienced the same issues you are. I use a hum eliminator and a ISP Pro Rack G and it is Pin-Drop quiet!

[benttop]

Your problem is ground loops! Get an Ebtech hum eliminator! Works like a champ! I run my G System thru a Diezel Herbert and experienced the same issues you are. I use a hum eliminator and a ISP Pro Rack G and it is Pin-Drop quiet!

Which hum eliminator are you using? I see ProCo makes a dual transformer iso box that is running around $99, but the ART box of the same ilk is just $49. I hate to have to throw more money at this thing, but if that's what it takes....

[andybaylor]

Your problem is ground loops! Get an Ebtech hum eliminator! Works like a champ! I run my G System thru a Diezel Herbert and experienced the same issues you are. I use a hum eliminator and a ISP Pro Rack G and it is Pin-Drop quiet!
Yup!

[mitch236]

I'm only on page 37 but had to ask this. I saved a factory preset to a user location (let's say 00-1 for argument's sake) and then dialed in the MIDI settings for my amp and then had the amp "learn" the MIDI change for that preset. Then I saved the same factory preset to a different user location and set up the amp for a completely different sound and then had the amp "learn" the MIDI for that new user preset. When I went back to the first user preset, the amp changed its MIDI program to the second preset's settings. What am I doing wrong? (hopefully someone will understand what I am asking).

The other problem I noticed is that when I add MIDI programming to my user presets, it adds the MIDI programming to all the factory presets. This is only slightly annoying since I don't use the factory presets except to copy to user presets but I have to unplug the MIDI cable to prevent my amp from switching every time I change factory presets.

[jelyfinger]

2 Channel Hum Eliminator (Model HE-2) MSRP $90

[guitarvc]

I tested one out at GC through a dead mint Silver Jubilee. I ran it in the front rahter than in the loop because getting 3 instrument cables that work can be an impossible feat at GC. This thing is stellar. I'm in the middle of building my pedal board, so i'll hold off. It is a bit complicated to operate, but the sound is really great.

[aksman]

I tested one out at GC through a dead mint Silver Jubilee. I ran it in the front rahter than in the loop because getting 3 instrument cables that work can be an impossible feat at GC. This thing is stellar. I'm in the middle of building my pedal board, so i'll hold off. It is a bit complicated to operate, but the sound is really great.


You bastard! A: I want that silver jubilee, B: they didn't let me test the G-system they had, but said that they recently sold one to the manager of the Sox for his son (now that's gonna influence my sale, hahahaha).

.

[Mike33]

Would it make sense to use a Suhr Minimix between the G-System and the amps serial loop?
I read through a lot of threads and I'm not sure if the G-system has a "kill dry" (100% wet) what I suppose
is needed when using the Suhr Minimix.
How could I set the G-System to 100% wet?
Thanks for your comments!
Mike

Nobody?

[pdouds]

Just snagged on from ebay for $1025. thought that was a prety fair price. it is a really nice sounding unit, only it kind of flipped out once. it got stuck on a preset and wouldn't change. Also, when I have the master volume on the amp is turned off, i can still hear signal coming through the amp. the loop is set for series, so i thought it would be completely off. Maybe I need a volume pedal through the volume jack to shut it clear off. other than that, it seems really cool. Nice effects, wish we all had some way to share programs though.

[Frank1974]

Nice effects, wish we all had some way to share programs though.
Hopefully, very soon we will. A PC editor to program and save presets.
Editor Announcement from TC Support (http://tcsupport.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/tcsupport.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1973&p_created=1188987910&p_sid=GIonKWMi&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX 3Jvd19jbnQ9NjkmcF9wcm9kcz0xLDE1OCZwX2NhdHM9MCZwX3B 2PTIuMTU4JnBfY3Y9JnBfc2VhcmNoX3R5cGU9YW5zd2Vycy5zZ WFyY2hfbmwmcF9zY2ZfYWNjZXNzX2xldmVsX2lkPX51c2VyX2F jY2Vzc34mcF9wYWdlPTE*&p_li=&p_topview=1)

[jhbpa]

My apologies if I missed this on the first 86 pages of the thread.

Is there a current work around with the latency issue with the wah or are we waiting on the update that is to include aforementioned editor.

Thanks

[pdouds]

Hopefully, very soon we will. A PC editor to program and save presets.
Editor Announcement from TC Support (http://tcsupport.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/tcsupport.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1973&p_created=1188987910&p_sid=GIonKWMi&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX 3Jvd19jbnQ9NjkmcF9wcm9kcz0xLDE1OCZwX2NhdHM9MCZwX3B 2PTIuMTU4JnBfY3Y9JnBfc2VhcmNoX3R5cGU9YW5zd2Vycy5zZ WFyY2hfbmwmcF9zY2ZfYWNjZXNzX2xldmVsX2lkPX51c2VyX2F jY2Vzc34mcF9wYWdlPTE*&p_li=&p_topview=1)gives me a good reason to buy a new mac laptop with the intel chip.:rolleyes:

[Frank1974]

Anyone know how to get a decent approximation of Hendrix Machine Gun Flanger/Vib type sound? (As heard in the band of gypsy's)

I've got the main sound with my fuzz/amp overdrive and Jen wah. Just can't get anything near this sound on Machine Gun.

I would've thought I'd be able to get this sound out of my G-System. What is it, a voodoo vibe or something?

Thanks.

[shredtheater]

this editor best be mac compatible! It would be an absolute joke if its only for the PC considering mac's are renowed for there use by musicians

[gbtommasi]

As far as i'm concerned, making it mac and win compatible was the major cause for the long delay in releasing it.

[Frank1974]

Yes, it will be compatible with mac. The delay is also because of they've had to rewrite the USB part of the software (I think). And also its not being written by T.C.

Which pleases me as I had a scare when I updated straight from the original firmware to 2.01. Everything went smooth up until the update was finished. It never completed on the G-system, and my PC couldn't recognise the G-System anymore so I couldn't restart the update because my PC couldn't see the G-System. After a phone call to my local T.C support (PanicMusic Services), I was told to pack it up and post it to them. I had a returns number and everything. Well before I packed it away, I unplugged it and powered it on again to see what would happen. Bingo, the update started to finish on power up, then I had to power down and start up, wayhay v2.01. It was scary at the time.

Hopefully the USB rewrite will fix the issue I had the first time around. (And maybe my report to T.C support gave them cause for alarm to update the USB.)

Wouldn't it be amazing if the editor was written by someone like Steinberg and could also be used as a plugin/instrument in Cubase. hmmm I can dream....

[pdouds]

day two of using this machine, whooa! this puppy is a nice unit! just listed a bunch of stompboxes. Looks like you could get by with one or two fave boxes, and let the "g" do the rest. cool.

[aksman]

Once again, I will say that I firmly believe "Oktober" is a pretend month that occurs somewhere after never.


QUESTION: anyone use the digital out on this thing? I'm trying to run it directly into my presonus firebox and it's not working.

[thedeadsea]

Once again, I will say that I firmly believe "Oktober" is a pretend month that occurs somewhere after never.


QUESTION: anyone use the digital out on this thing? I'm trying to run it directly into my presonus firebox and it's not working.

I ONLY use the SPDIF out on the g system due to the fact that I run from my guitar thru g system/pedals thru laptop and then to amps. The only think is to make sure that in the software you have for the presonus (I use a MOTU Traveler) that the clock is set to SPDIF instead of internal... Dunno what else it could be

[aksman]

I ONLY use the SPDIF out on the g system due to the fact that I run from my guitar thru g system/pedals thru laptop and then to amps. The only think is to make sure that in the software you have for the presonus (I use a MOTU Traveler) that the clock is set to SPDIF instead of internal... Dunno what else it could be


I bet that's the problem

[Frank1974]

QUESTION: anyone use the digital out on this thing? I'm trying to run it directly into my presonus firebox and it's not working.
I can't get it working either, I sometimes get a faint signal through the right channel. I have an M-Audio Delta 1010 and its 16-bit SPDIF 32,000 upto 192,000 sample rate whereas the G-System outputs a 24-bit signal. I blamed my problem on this (16bit v 24bit).

[jlagoon]

Hi fellas,

I am interested in getting the g system. Does the G-System suck your tone at all? How does the sound of plugging directly to the amp and going through the g-system differ?

Some say that if you use the following setup,
Guitar > G-System > Amp input > fxout > gsystem > fx return>

you would notice the tone sucking. However, it is not the case when you use this setup:
Guitar > Amp > fx loop > g-system > fx return

Thanks

[aksman]

Hi fellas,

I am interested in getting the g system. Does the G-System suck your tone at all? How does the sound of plugging directly to the amp and going through the g-system differ?

Some say that if you use the following setup,
Guitar > G-System > Amp input > fxout > gsystem > fx return>

you would notice the tone sucking. However, it is not the case when you use this setup:
Guitar > Amp > fx loop > g-system > fx return

Thanks



NO. There can be loss if you use the Boost function and have it turned off, but as long as the boost is disabled (which frees up a button for loop 4 anyway, then there's no real noticable tone loss. Just be sure you have the input and output (and loop) volumes set correctly.

[jlagoon]

Thanks aksman

I don't plan to use the boost feature, because I have different presets on my TriAxis. How good is the AD/DA converter on the G System in comparison to other multi effect units, such as Xpression, G Major, etc.?

How do I disable the boost feature completely? And the volume level on the input, output, and loops should be at unity gain, right?

I just want to make sure that my money is well spent, instead of being disappointed with a tone sucking problem.

[aksman]

I've never use the other TC processors, but it's lightyears beyond that of the Podxt and similar processors as far as ad/da conversion is concerned.

To disable the boost, you just set it to 0db. This is because instead of actually boosting, it just lowers the signal of the un-boosted sound so when you press the boost, the volume is raised to full blast.

So, I run it with no boost, output at 0db (full), input at around 7db and the loops at about the same. The only tricky part is balancing the input and loop levels... it's handy if you want to drive your pedals with a really strong signal into them, though. It really makes some of my drives sound better since I have it feeding a slightly stronger signal into them (and yes they still clean up as well by turning down the guitar's voume knob).

Overall, I highly recommend it... but I'm coming from the PodXTlive to the Gsystem, not the Major to the System or anything.

[pdouds]

Thanks aksman

I don't plan to use the boost feature, because I have different presets on my TriAxis. How good is the AD/DA converter on the G System in comparison to other multi effect units, such as Xpression, G Major, etc.?

How do I disable the boost feature completely? And the volume level on the input, output, and loops should be at unity gain, right?

I just want to make sure that my money is well spent, instead of being disappointed with a tone sucking problem.you have to go into the utility menu to disable it.

[digitalkettle]

Ah, G-System bretheren...how did I miss this thread for so long?

I've owned a G-System since around March 2007...largely happy with it...filed a bunch of bug reports. Since funding TCe for the G and a VPD1, I've felt a little bit out in the cold: I don't know any other users personally and there is no dedicated online community (I'm sure that Steve Vai doesn't want to talk to me either). It's a bit sad that a slightly negative feeling has crept in and brought me to this thread.

So this is where we sit and wait for the X1/V1/update/editor is it? I ordered the foot pedals last week only to see the date get pushed back another month...this was a 'bridge too far' so I filed a 'generally disappointed' report with customer support and here I am. Hello ;-)

[Itsik]

Just out of curiosity, why do some people here insist on the TC pedals when there are so many other pedals out there, doing exactly the same, cheaper, and available ???

[digitalkettle]

Just out of curiosity, why do some people here insist on the TC pedals when there are so many other pedals out there, doing exactly the same, cheaper, and available ???

Can you give examples?

[Itsik]

I'm using a Boss FV-500L. It work flowlesly and is built like a tank.
Hell I have an encient Yamaha volume pedal I connected and it work perfecty.

[aksman]

you have to go into the utility menu to disable it.


Well, i thought you can't really "disable" the boost (aka on or of or enabled or disabled). Rather, you have to set the boost to 0db, therefore when pressed, there's no boost. Then you just go and assign the boost pedal to control some other function (my recommendations would be to make that loop 1 and shift the other loop switches to 2 3 & 4 accordingly, or make it change the amp's channels).

[digitalkettle]

I'm using a Boss FV-500L. It work flowlesly and is built like a tank.
Hell I have an encient Yamaha volume pedal I connected and it work perfecty.

Cool...have you tried the FV-500L in the exp AND the vol inputs?

[Itsik]

Yep.

Works like a charm.

[Viljami]

NO. There can be loss if you use the Boost function and have it turned off, but as long as the boost is disabled (which frees up a button for loop 4 anyway, then there's no real noticable tone loss. Just be sure you have the input and output (and loop) volumes set correctly.
I set up mine so that the boost actually is a boost. Just adjust unity gain with input and/or output levels.

Jake

[Frank1974]

I use a VOX V847 Wah for an expression pedal. I just wired the output jack directly to the wah pot and removed the switch for smoothness in the toe down position. Its excellent for the wah. Tried an ordinary linear pot, its better for setting mod speed and changing pitch/whammy etc, but not too good for the wah.

Its possible to turn a wah pedal into an active volume pedal as well, but I prefer not to be bothered with batteries.

Anyone able to get a Univibe type sound with the G-System?

[markmark]

i have my boost turned all the way up so there's no attenuation and I have the boost lock turned on; so on every preset the boost is the same, i.e switched on and all the way up.

I didn't think about reassigning the boost pedal though. I thought if the Boost function was off, then it wasn't boosted, therefore the signal was being attenuated.

[jesper]

[quote=Frank1974;3045853

Anyone able to get a Univibe type sound with the G-System?[/quote
Im curious abot that too

[shredtheater]

i have my boost turned all the way up so there's no attenuation and I have the boost lock turned on; so on every preset the boost is the same, i.e switched on and all the way up.

I didn't think about reassigning the boost pedal though. I thought if the Boost function was off, then it wasn't boosted, therefore the signal was being attenuated.

So do i want to set the boost to 6db or 0 db to get the best signal/least tone suckage. Im not bothered about using the boost function. Also, once this is done do i want to lock the boost or not??

[supersecretjim]

Set boost max to 0 in global and boost lock to on. Turn boost off as well. Then in the switch section, re-assign the boost switch to any function you like!

[pdouds]

I just bought a used g-system, and it didn't include the 9volt power cables. anyone know where i can get some?

[aksman]

I just bought a used g-system, and it didn't include the 9volt power cables. anyone know where i can get some?


you can just cut up any daisy-chain... that's the easiest thing if you can't find the adapters anywhere. the other option is to make your own with parts from ebay or a parts website.

[Mike33]

I just bought a used g-system, and it didn't include the 9volt power cables. anyone know where i can get some?


5.5mm x 2.1mm barrel plugs

You can get them here stock at 20" or custom order whatever... Different lengths, right ends, etc...
http://www.stompin-ground.com/products/sgcablepp2.htm

[pdouds]

ok, thanks, guys. i did a gig with the "g" yesterday, but had an awful time keeping the input gain under control. the unit sounded cool, but for some reason, i was either clipping it, or only had one bar of signal coming into it.
must be a trick to it.

[aksman]

ok, thanks, guys. i did a gig with the "g" yesterday, but had an awful time keeping the input gain under control. the unit sounded cool, but for some reason, i was either clipping it, or only had one bar of signal coming into it.
must be a trick to it.


Weird... you check the loop levels and headroom?

[pdouds]

Weird... you check the loop levels and headroom?yeah, i think i will have to check the loop levels. i really shouldn't have taken it on a gig after 2 days, but dang this thing is fun, what button stompin' geetar player could leave that puppy at home?:crazy

[Julian_Lee]

Hi,
Am wondering if the G-Systems can be use as a Amp switcher? I have about 3 amps and wonder if the G-system could do it or I would have to buy another Amp switcher.

[benttop]

Hi,
Am wondering if the G-Systems can be use as a Amp switcher? I have about 3 amps and wonder if the G-system could do it or I would have to buy another Amp switcher.

I think it's possible, but it's not going to be a plug and play situation. You would need to incorporate some kind of isolation transformers to prevent ground loops. If you do that, I'm pretty sure you could get it to work.

[aksman]

WHERE'S MY FREAKING EDITOR???? It's "Oktober" already... c'mon guys!


I can't wait... becasue then I feel there'll be more of a forum for the g-system and more sharing of settings... then I can finally learn how to properly use half of the parameters in the effects (so many parameters!!).

[Itsik]

WHERE'S MY FREAKING EDITOR???? It's "Oktober" already... c'mon guys!


I can't wait... becasue then I feel there'll be more of a forum for the g-system and more sharing of settings... then I can finally learn how to properly use half of the parameters in the effects (so many parameters!!).

If you need any help with patches and/or programing sound tell me what you need and I'll try to help ...

[aksman]

If you need any help with patches and/or programing sound tell me what you need and I'll try to help ...


It's not so much any specific problems... it's just that i'm coming from the Podxt, and my old singer did most of the programming for that (did an amazing job too). So, between him and the custom-tone resource, I didn't really need to do much editing, just fine-tuning.

All of these reverb parmeters are the first things giving me probelms... I think I'm over-doing it too often, but only rely on adjusting the decay time to correct for this... there's got to be more to it (tighten up the bottom, add some depth and shimmer, etc.). Pre-delay? High-cut? Lo and Hi style? room shape? what does all this crap do?

[ryanformato]

Wow, the X! and V1 got pushed back again to November. That sucks.

[Mike33]

And what about the editor and the update?
Late september or early october is due!!!

Anybody have news? Tore?

[gbtommasi]

first time i asked to thomann.de, they said V1 and X1 were expected shipped on june 26.... enough said
i think there is some business-related problem

[jelyfinger]

This whole TC experience is becoming comical...My patience has just about reached the end!

[Mike33]

This whole TC experience is becoming comical...My patience has just about reached the end!

Yea! I consider to sell mine soon... and go back to a regular pedalboard.
Enough is enough is enough! :nono

[gbtommasi]

I don't know, they could maybe decide to let the editor down: it is a business choice, it is a commercial suicide imho, but it's their right.

But the delay on the software update is just incredible for a company like TC: this thing has relevant bugs, for instance the volume pedal lag makes it almost unusable.
This is not acceptable anymore, and they should release a software update right now.
When i spend $1400 for a pedalboard, which is surely a great sounding unit and allows me to realize complex routings, but it is a pedalboard in the end, i then expect the company to solve product related issues, and solve them timely.

[ryanformato]

Maybe one of you guys can help me. I sent TC a help request. Here is the question, response, and question again.

ME:

Hello,

I have been using the G-system with my Carvin legacy and have not been really happy with the unit. I am currently using it via the 4 cable method. When I plug directly into my amp, the sound is raw, crisp, feedsback nicely, and is silent (especially with my guitar volume rolled down).

When I set up the 4 cable method using the G-system and put the output to 0db, the sound is muddy when chords are hit (almost like overloading or distorted), there is a significant amount of noise that is created, and things just don't sound right. I have messed with the input/output settings, but nothing fixes the noise problem. A gate in my opinion should not be the answer unless I am adding lots of distortion pedals.

Please help.

RESPONSE:

Dear Ryan,

Please read these FAQ's


Title: High Gain channel is very noisy with G-System
URL: http://tcsupport.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/tcsupport.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1944&p_created=1174645036 (http://tcsupport.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/tcsupport.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1944&p_created=1174645036)


Title: Loss of level when passing through the G-System.
URL: http://tcsupport.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/tcsupport.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1954&p_created=1178629436 (http://tcsupport.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/tcsupport.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1954&p_created=1178629436)


we also have had issues with the Carvin Amps and ground loops. Could that be yourn problem?


MY RESPONSE:

I don't think it is a ground loop because it only kicks in when on a high gain channel. How would I know if it is a ground loop. Your company makes a big deal about Vai using the G-system (which is a main reason I bought it; He also uses a Carvin legacy. Is there a way you can get settings from him or something to that effect?

TO GET RID OF NOISE TIPS: Let me address the different issues.

1. Boost switch is already set to +2. That should not create noise.
2. Whether I raise or lower the input level, it has only a slight effect on the noise level.
3. I haven't messed with the loop headroom or level because I don't know where they should be set at.
4. I don't think a noisegate should have to be activated. When I don't have the G-system on, I can have my amp much louder with no noise.
5. Do not use compressor on high gain channel -- I am not using the compressor.

[benttop]

Maybe one of you guys can help me. I sent TC a help request. Here is the question, response, and question again.

ME:

Hello,

I have been using the G-system with my Carvin legacy and have not been really happy with the unit. I am currently using it via the 4 cable method. When I plug directly into my amp, the sound is raw, crisp, feedsback nicely, and is silent (especially with my guitar volume rolled down).

When I set up the 4 cable method using the G-system and put the output to 0db, the sound is muddy when chords are hit (almost like overloading or distorted), there is a significant amount of noise that is created, and things just don't sound right. I have messed with the input/output settings, but nothing fixes the noise problem. A gate in my opinion should not be the answer unless I am adding lots of distortion pedals.

Please help.

RESPONSE:

Dear Ryan,

Please read these FAQ's


Title: High Gain channel is very noisy with G-System
URL: http://tcsupport.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/tcsupport.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1944&p_created=1174645036 (http://tcsupport.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/tcsupport.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1944&p_created=1174645036)


Title: Loss of level when passing through the G-System.
URL: http://tcsupport.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/tcsupport.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1954&p_created=1178629436 (http://tcsupport.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/tcsupport.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1954&p_created=1178629436)


we also have had issues with the Carvin Amps and ground loops. Could that be yourn problem?


MY RESPONSE:

I don't think it is a ground loop because it only kicks in when on a high gain channel. How would I know if it is a ground loop. Your company makes a big deal about Vai using the G-system (which is a main reason I bought it; He also uses a Carvin legacy. Is there a way you can get settings from him or something to that effect?

TO GET RID OF NOISE TIPS: Let me address the different issues.

1. Boost switch is already set to +2. That should not create noise.
2. Whether I raise or lower the input level, it has only a slight effect on the noise level.
3. I haven't messed with the loop headroom or level because I don't know where they should be set at.
4. I don't think a noisegate should have to be activated. When I don't have the G-system on, I can have my amp much louder with no noise.
5. Do not use compressor on high gain channel -- I am not using the compressor.
I'm seeing pretty much the same thing on my Rivera Venus 6. I've concluded it must be ground loop noise, but I can't afford to just run out and buy all kinds of isolators, so I'm not using it again. I'm hoping isolation fixes things, because they are not cheap. I'm curious why the G-System doesn't have built in isolation - my Radial JX-2 has it and that unit only cost $200.

[jelyfinger]

I use mine thru a Diezel Herbert and experienced the same noise you are referring to. Purchased a ISP Decimator Pro Rack G and completely solved ALL noise issues! Amazing piece of gear!

[ryanformato]

The thing I don't understand is why should we have to buy another $100 piece of gear. With so many experiencing the problem, there has to be a way to solve it.

[benttop]

The thing I don't understand is why should we have to buy another $100 piece of gear. With so many experiencing the problem, there has to be a way to solve it.

It's fundamental. Anyone who has ever set up a studio or even a multi-processor rack knows about isolation. Odd that it was left out of this unit then...

[Itsik]

proper wiring + smart use of the built in noise gate = no noise and no need to buy anything else.

[Nomadgtr]

It's fundamental. Anyone who has ever set up a studio or even a multi-processor rack knows about isolation. Odd that it was left out of this unit then...

Yep, anytime you build a rack you have to prepare to deal with ground loops and other fun. Part of the joy of building a rig.

[benttop]

proper wiring + smart use of the built in noise gate = no noise and no need to buy anything else.

You must be smarter than all the rest of us then. Why don't you tell me what proper wiring you're using that I'm not.

[jelyfinger]

proper wiring + smart use of the built in noise gate = no noise and no need to buy anything else.

You obviously are NOT running thru a high gain amp my man! The gate on the G is shall we say "lacking".

[zentraedi2006]

Hello, everyone. I'm new here but I have been reading a lot about the G here . I recently got one and used it with my custom rivera duo hundred and used a 5 pin cable to a TRS to have the G switch my channels with my presets. I also had used it with my Mesa Stilleto Deuce head and it works great with the footswitch cable that it came with and hooked up at the back on the ext. switch input. I recently acquired a MESA ROAD KING and here is where I'm stuck with. Can anybody please help me out as to how I go about switching the 4 channels on my amp with the G. I am looking at the amp gizmo by rjm music technology which has 8 inputs as well as the axess CFX4 and the MAC-2 by Diamond amplification which have 4 inputs. My question is how do you go about hooking it up to your G? is it thru your MIDI IN port on your G once you have connected plugs from the amp's external channel switches (4 on the road king by the way) to the 4 ports of the CFX4 and then a midi cable to MIDI IN? Please enlighten me as I am not that experienced with MIDI switching especially on the G. LAIRD great posts by the way, all your posts have been very helpful and had some bearing when I got my G. Thanks everyone!

[benttop]

Hello, everyone. I'm new here but I have been reading a lot about the G here . I recently got one and used it with my custom rivera duo hundred and used a 5 pin cable to a TRS to have the G switch my channels with my presets. I also had used it with my Mesa Stilleto Deuce head and it works great with the footswitch cable that it came with and hooked up at the back on the ext. switch input. I recently acquired a MESA ROAD KING and here is where I'm stuck with. Can anybody please help me out as to how I go about switching the 4 channels on my amp with the G. I am looking at the amp gizmo by rjm music technology which has 8 inputs as well as the axess CFX4 and the MAC-2 by Diamond amplification which have 4 inputs. My question is how do you go about hooking it up to your G? is it thru your MIDI IN port on your G once you have connected plugs from the amp's external channel switches (4 on the road king by the way) to the 4 ports of the CFX4 and then a midi cable to MIDI IN? Please enlighten me as I am not that experienced with MIDI switching especially on the G. LAIRD great posts by the way, all your posts have been very helpful and had some bearing when I got my G. Thanks everyone!

That's essentially what I'm doing here. I have a Rocktron Patchmate that has 9 sets of relays in it, controlling those via MIDI from the G-System.

You want to plug a MIDI cable from the G-System's GFX MIDI out to the MIDI In of your CFX4. Then you'll need to go to each preset you have configured on your G-System and set up the relays you want on the CFX4 and save as a preset there. It's not hard, but you do have to get past the conceptual wall, and with MIDI it can be frustrating. Keep after it and you'll get it after you get one working.

[keychange]

I use mine thru a Diezel Herbert and experienced the same noise you are referring to. Purchased a ISP Decimator Pro Rack G and completely solved ALL noise issues! Amazing piece of gear!

Are you using the 4 cable method to connect to your amp? I am using a Soldano Slo running through an ebtech line level shifter (stupid Soldano +4 loop) via the 4 cable method and have been pondering getting a Pro Rack G since reading your post :) I am just not sure how complicated it would be to wire into my existing rig lol. I have the noise fairly contained but there are moments where the gate cuts me out at low volumes, I often wonder about sustain loss as well.....I have a few empty rack spaces to fill to haha gear costs too much these days!

[Itsik]

benttop, I'm not smarter then any one here, never claimed to be and your sarcasm is a bit uncalled for.

Jelyfinger, my GS is connected to me Mesa Boogie Mark IV, using the 4 cable method. If that's not high gain, I don't know what is ...

My lead channel gain is at 8.5 and lead drive is at 8.
Main gate is setup the following way:

Mode: Hard
Thresh: -30dB
Dump: -90dB
Speed: 200dB's

It will not fit every situation but it might be a good starting point. If any one wants to try it I'd adjust the Thresh so it doesn't cut off the sound.
Re. wiring, I've always used Clotz microphone cables with Neutrik plugs.
I prepare them with both conductors soldered to the tip.
I'm using a power strip with power surge protection and connect the amp and the GS to it with the amp being the only component that's electrically grounded.

[benttop]

benttop, I'm not smarter then any one here, never claimed to be and your sarcasm is a bit uncalled for.


Hmmm... seems someone else here was sarcastic when he said this:


proper wiring + smart use of the built in noise gate = no noise and no need to buy anything else.


But you're right, this is not the place to be sarcastic. I'll quit if you will. :)


Jelyfinger, my GS is connected to me Mesa Boogie Mark IV, using the 4 cable method. If that's not high gain, I don't know what is ...


I'm using the 4 wire method here too, although with a different amp. Could be there's the difference.


My lead channel gain is at 8.5 and lead drive is at 8.


Well there's one difference. I've been running my Rivera Venus 6 high gain channel wide open. I'm not very familiar with the Mk IV so it's hard to compare, but the hum I'm getting is probably more likely the difference in amp grounding topology than anything else.


Main gate is setup the following way:

Mode: Hard
Thresh: -30dB
Dump: -90dB
Speed: 200dB's


Well that's pretty close to how I'm running mine here. I hate it. I'd rather shut the gate off entirely. To me, a gate is a bandaid to compensate for other problems. If you can run without a gate you're way ahead. I've been able to do it using other processors, but not the G-System.


Re. wiring, I've always used Clotz microphone cables with Neutrik plugs.
I prepare them with both conductors soldered to the tip.


Well that I really don't get. What's the advantage of taking a twisted pair and shorting them together? I'm not sure that's buying you anything at all. I'm using a set of Monster TRS cables here. I'm not a big Monster fan, but these were all that was available at GC.


I'm using a power strip with power surge protection and connect the amp and the GS to it with the amp being the only component that's electrically grounded.

Well the G-System is grounded via that strip too, no? It has a three prong power cord, I'm pretty sure the Earth connection is common to the ground lug there. But what's happening inside is not obvious to me, except that there must be some ground current because I can hear it. The only thing that doesn't ring true is if there was ground current, plugging the G-System into an isolation plug should stop it, but I still hear the noise whether I isolate or not. That should tell me the noise is not ground noise, but it sure sounds like ground noise (60 cycle hum).

[Itsik]

If my previous post sounded sarcastic I apologize. It wasn't meant to be.

The MK IV settings I described are VERY high gain, and the 4 cable method should work the same on any amp regardless of make or model.

I run the gate only on the lead channel. Other channels are without it.

The thing with quality microphone cables (to my personal experience, not claiming it to be the holy truth or anything ... ) is that they're usually shielded a bit better then instrument cables. I solder both conductors together to the tip to retain the ground lead resistance. I'm not sure if it works like that in reality but I was told to do so buy a tech guy that works at wiring recording studios . He said that a common mistake people do is solder one conductor to the tip and the other along with the ground lead to the sleeve, and that causes a slight degradation in sound and more sensitivity to shielding problems. Again, that's what I've been told and I can't vouch for it although it sounds logical to me.

Re. grounding, I cut the plug off the wire an installed a different one with only 2 prongs. I simply cut off the grounding wire flush with the insulation and left it unconnected.

BTW, I've just changed my setup a bit. I now run a quad core multi cable (I hope that's the right name J) using only 3 of the cores to connect the GS to the amp, and a SHIELDED command multi cable for channel switching.
Both cables are about 10 meters long and I have no problems what so ever.

One more thing, what is that isolation plug you guys are talking about? Never heard of something like that here ...

[benttop]

There is a picture of one here: http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/connecting-your-system/ground-loops-eliminating-system-hum-and-buzz and I agree it can be dangerous to lift the safety ground on the power cord. The ideal way to isolate the grounds in the G-System would be to use a ground isolation transformer like this one: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/IT1/

The problem is, this has two circuits, and by my calculation, I would need two of them for the four wire method. That's about $200 more than I wanted to spend on the G-System.

[pdouds]

Well, i thought you can't really "disable" the boost (aka on or of or enabled or disabled). Rather, you have to set the boost to 0db, therefore when pressed, there's no boost. Then you just go and assign the boost pedal to control some other function (my recommendations would be to make that loop 1 and shift the other loop switches to 2 3 & 4 accordingly, or make it change the amp's channels).
you are correct, sorry for the mis-wording.

[zentraedi2006]

That's essentially what I'm doing here. I have a Rocktron Patchmate that has 9 sets of relays in it, controlling those via MIDI from the G-System.

You want to plug a MIDI cable from the G-System's GFX MIDI out to the MIDI In of your CFX4. Then you'll need to go to each preset you have configured on your G-System and set up the relays you want on the CFX4 and save as a preset there. It's not hard, but you do have to get past the conceptual wall, and with MIDI it can be frustrating. Keep after it and you'll get it after you get one working.

Thanks benttop. Your help is much appreciated. I will try that set-up. Unfortunately, the amp gizmo is out of production right now. The thing about it is that it is smaller according to some people and it has 8 ports as compared to the CFX4 which has only 4. The Mac-2 however has 5. At least I can switch the 4 channels and probably the boost for the 5th. Maybe I'll try the Mac-2. I just want to put the switcher box on my pedal board since I'm not doing racks or maybe even put it at the back of my cab. Any suggestions? You guys know of any good relay switch box out there that is small enough or that can go on the pedal board? I might have some more questions when I set it up but in the meantime, I'll try to find me a midi/relay switch box. Thanks much!

[Itsik]

There is a picture of one here: http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/connecting-your-system/ground-loops-eliminating-system-hum-and-buzz and I agree it can be dangerous to lift the safety ground on the power cord. The ideal way to isolate the grounds in the G-System would be to use a ground isolation transformer like this one: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/IT1/

The problem is, this has two circuits, and by my calculation, I would need two of them for the four wire method. That's about $200 more than I wanted to spend on the G-System.

All of my gear is wired this way. All my studio equipment is without grounding accept for the Power Amp running the studio Monitors.
I don't think there's any danger in that as long as the final component in the chain is properly grounded. There are lots of home appliances without grounding, and they are certified for being safe.
Maybe I'd try balanced cabling. If it makes any differance, it'll probebly be for the better ...
After reading many of the posts here concerning this issue, I tend to believe that the main cause is grounding problems. Of course that's just a guess and I have'nt seen or heard any one's setup here, but I really can't think of anything else that can be causing it.
I think its worth a try to replace a power cables plug and cut off the grounding lead.

My two cents ...

[benttop]

All of my gear is wired this way. All my studio equipment is without grounding accept for the Power Amp running the studio Monitors.
I don't think there's any danger in that as long as the final component in the chain is properly grounded. There are lots of home appliances without grounding, and they are certified for being safe.
Maybe I'd try balanced cabling. If it makes any differance, it'll probebly be for the better ...
After reading many of the posts here concerning this issue, I tend to believe that the main cause is grounding problems. Of course that's just a guess and I have'nt seen or heard any one's setup here, but I really can't think of anything else that can be causing it.
I think its worth a try to replace a power cables plug and cut off the grounding lead.

My two cents ...
Unfortunately I already lifted the ground on the G-System and it really didn't make any difference. Using balanced cables here too. I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and buy isolation transformers to get this under control.

[Itsik]

Man ... that's really weird ...
the only thing that comes to mind that maybe it's a problem with the universal transformer ...
Could it be that it works better on 240V then on 120V ???
Does'nt sound logical to me, but I really can't think of any thing else. Hell, I've gone thru two differant GS units and non of them had anything close to what you guys are describing ...

[gbtommasi]

Man ... that's really weird ...
the only thing that comes to mind that maybe it's a problem with the universal transformer ...
Could it be that it works better on 240V then on 120V ???
Does'nt sound logical to me, but I really can't think of any thing else. Hell, I've gone thru two differant GS units and non of them had anything close to what you guys are describing ...

Well, i have to agree. I use the g-system with normal unbalanced cables (georgel's), and i have never experienced noise problems at all.
I have tried my unit with my DSL50, with Mesas Marc IV and dual rectifier, with a Brunetti Pirata and with a couple of Fenders (blues deluxe in the insert loop, Twin Reverb straight into the front). With none of these amps I experienced unwanted noise. And I mean, even with really high gain settings both of the amps and of several distortion / overdrive pedals.
I don't really know what to think, it's weird.

[ryanformato]

Is there anyway to test if there is a ground loop before I buy those Isolation Transformers? Also, I went to a Vai concert and he wasn't using transformers and pretty much plays everywhere in the world so...is that even really the problem? Also, my noise only comes on during the distorted channel, not on the clean. Can a ground loop do that?

EDIT: I have just listened to what a ground loop sounds like HERE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3QjqHtcb1Q and thats not what it sounds like. Maybe I'll record it and put it up. It it more like a shhhhhhhhhh kind of sound (although I am unsure if there are multiple types of ground loops).

[Ed DeGenaro]

Man ... that's really weird ...
the only thing that comes to mind that maybe it's a problem with the universal transformer ...
Could it be that it works better on 240V then on 120V ???
Does'nt sound logical to me, but I really can't think of any thing else. Hell, I've gone thru two differant GS units and non of them had anything close to what you guys are describing ...
Nope it makes no difference. The only n oise issues I have are par for the course with different amps I'm running. And I have found that with the gate I can stop playing and unlike with any of my previous set-ups I don't have to run across the stage to kill the sound. :)

[benttop]

Nope it makes no difference. The only n oise issues I have are par for the course with different amps I'm running. And I have found that with the gate I can stop playing and unlike with any of my previous set-ups I don't have to run across the stage to kill the sound. :)
Hey Ed, what amp are you using the GS with?

[gordiegords]

Hey folks, i'm going a little off topic here sorry, my band was playing in a competition last week and we had to yous the amps provided, marshall's, i play the g system through a fender pro reverb and i use the 4 cable method, i hooked it up to the marshall and got very little, the wah and delay work but nothing else, whats going on there? I'm not too clued up on it all but it was prob something to do with the setup of the marshall send and retrurns yes?

Thanks for any replies.

Gordie.

[Ed DeGenaro]

Hey Ed, what amp are you using the GS with?
Mostly the Mesa Trem-o-verb, but I have used it with a Flexi and a Rivera KH2 as well.

[benttop]

Mostly the Mesa Trem-o-verb, but I have used it with a Flexi and a Rivera KH2 as well.

One of the biggest challenges I find with the G-System is using it with more than one amp. That's why I'm so desperate for the editor - each amp seems to like a lot different gain settings. You get it all dialed up for the Flexi, and switch it to the Rivera, and all the levels need to be tweaked. And the Stingray is another whole set of level changes.

[ryanformato]

"Final Response" from TC Electronics.

"Dear Ryan,

If this is not a ground loop, the noise level can be reduced by setting correct levels. It is obvious that plugging your guitar directly into the amp will take out noise. Any device in between will add noise. You must think that the G-System is also a preamp and will boost your levels if you are not careful, and also the floor noise level. Specially in high gain channels, natural compression also boosts the floor noises and can result in higher than expected. , At this point a Noise Gate becomes necessary in combination with a level reduction in the amp input.

If the FAQ does not help, I cannot find any other solutions. It seems to me that you have not seriously tried the solutions, so please try them again, including loop levels and loop headroom.

Regards"



I find this customer service reply pretty outrageous. I spend $1349 on a product that I can't to sound right and have been working on the problem for weeks/months. Apparently, I haven't seriously tried the solutions because I want noise in my sound. The ironic part is, if you read my original response to them, I actually ask how to set the headroom correctly and they didn't respond to that part of my question. By the way, this response was 8 days after asking and I had to ask TC again (They never responded after I replied back to them)(See prior posts).

-Ryan

[keychange]

I have had responses with the same level of effort and detail from them! I think we all needs to go on an emailing spree to highlight our dissatisfaction with the support and bogus time lines they offer on updates. Anyone interested in sending a few emails a day asking when the update and editor will be released and a few more for a detailed explanation on proper loop settings? Seems to me that we might be able to force a decent response if we draw more attention to our needs as customers as a group rather than as individuals. If every person who is disappointed with the level of service they provide VS the $$$ invested, was willing to drive that message home daily, you would think that someone @ TC would take note and address the situation. The questions I am stuck with are:

Are they really this bad @ support?
Are the people in charge just fluffing off our concerns?
Or is there a disconnect between "support" and the people who have the power to address our concerns?

Maybe a few thousand emails sent from the entire group of G system owners will wake them the f__k up!:FM

Just my 2 cents :)

[sixstringmonk]

I do feel that it is a ground loop when it comes to the Legacy and the g-sys because iso boxes fix the problem, but for some reason the g-sys is the only thing I own that creates a ground loop through the legacy. I have a handful of pedals and none of them produce a ground hum in the legacy loop. There has to be more to this story.

[jelyfinger]

I have had responses with the same level of effort and detail from them! I think we all needs to go on an emailing spree to highlight our dissatisfaction with the support and bogus time lines they offer on updates. Anyone interested in sending a few emails a day asking when the update and editor will be released and a few more for a detailed explanation on proper loop settings? Seems to me that we might be able to force a decent response if we draw more attention to our needs as customers as a group rather than as individuals. If every person who is disappointed with the level of service they provide VS the $$$ invested, was willing to drive that message home daily, you would think that someone @ TC would take note and address the situation. The questions I am stuck with are:

Are they really this bad @ support?
Are the people in charge just fluffing off our concerns?
Or is there a disconnect between "support" and the people who have the power to address our concerns?

Maybe a few thousand emails sent from the entire group of G system owners will wake them the f__k up!:FM

Just my 2 cents :)

Typical TC response, my patience has reached the end with these clowns, I'm dumping my G System! They have alot to learn when it comes to customer service!

[jelyfinger]

"Final Response" from TC Electronics.

"Dear Ryan,

If this is not a ground loop, the noise level can be reduced by setting correct levels. It is obvious that plugging your guitar directly into the amp will take out noise. Any device in between will add noise. You must think that the G-System is also a preamp and will boost your levels if you are not careful, and also the floor noise level. Specially in high gain channels, natural compression also boosts the floor noises and can result in higher than expected. , At this point a Noise Gate becomes necessary in combination with a level reduction in the amp input.

If the FAQ does not help, I cannot find any other solutions. It seems to me that you have not seriously tried the solutions, so please try them again, including loop levels and loop headroom.

Regards"



I find this customer service reply pretty outrageous. I spend $1349 on a product that I can't to sound right and have been working on the problem for weeks/months. Apparently, I haven't seriously tried the solutions because I want noise in my sound. The ironic part is, if you read my original response to them, I actually ask how to set the headroom correctly and they didn't respond to that part of my question. By the way, this response was 8 days after asking and I had to ask TC again (They never responded after I replied back to them)(See prior posts).

-Ryan

the boys in Denmark are useless for tech support. They just assume you are using bad cables or a crappy amp......."Nothing can be wrong with our products ....we are TC".....

[gbtommasi]

Guys,

i understand it is frustrating having expensive gears and noise problems. But please consider that there is people using the g-system which does not have noise, just good sounds.

So, if you just thik about it, what could tc answer to you? It is actually impossible to recreate all possible situations, so they can just give guidelines, unless you take your gear up and go to Denmark in their laboratories.

c'mon...

[mitch236]

Like all things I have noticed on the web, there seems to be a disproportionate number of people who are having problems with this product posting here. Most users are probably having no issues. I think a proper manual would solve most issues and that is what we should be asking for. How about a manual that explains every function and what the settings do. The manual is way too basic for such a complicated piece of equipment.

My experience with TC's customer support has been very positive so far.

[gbtommasi]

Like all things I have noticed on the web, there seems to be a disproportionate number of people who are having problems with this product posting here. Most users are probably having no issues. I think a proper manual would solve most issues and that is what we should be asking for. How about a manual that explains every function and what the settings do. The manual is way too basic for such a complicated piece of equipment.

My experience with TC's customer support has been very positive so far.

I agree. The manual is too basic and should be rewritten. So far I am a satisfied customer too (leaving apart this absurd editor/software upgrade delay)

[Mike33]

I agree. The manual is too basic and should be rewritten. So far I am a satisfied customer too (leaving apart this absurd editor/software upgrade delay)

This is also my current state and I fully agree. No real issues with the g-system.
But the thing which makes me mad is the editor/software upgrade.

I'm working as a Product Manager in the IT area and I know what a mess it can be to reach dates and so on... but the key then is always communication. You solve 80% of your issues with communication.
I get mad about TC because they don't communicate. What's the big deal to tell your customers that you have a delay? A lot of them then understand and can wait. On the TC homepage is still written that the release should be out end of September or early October.... In ten days we have November!!!
So please TC... communicate!!!! :D

[keychange]

I am happy with many tings on the G-System but there are certain glitches that are have been known for over a year that "will be fixed in the next update" lol. Why it is so hard to provide more detail on the loop settings? I will not agree that TC responses provide enough detail to sort out some of the problems we are facing. I am certainly not asking for everyone's buy in to email them but there are enough of us here with a common rant. If you are happy I am happy for you, if on the other hand you feel the support is lacking then the only way to solve this type of performance is to demand more support. There may be thousands of happy owners out there but that does not mean that those of us with problems should just continue excepting crappy support and endure the endless wait lol. I agree that the manual sucks but there have been repeated requests for detail that they fail to provide. I don't expect settings for every amp but some general guidelines for different amp types could have value. Basic high gain guidelines might be a good starting point but ignoring your customers concerns is not a valid response in my mind.

[NicDoak]

i LOVE my G System and have not encountered a single negative issue with it running 2.01 for the beginning.

but i run everything into the front of my Mesa amps.

i really wish the manuel was 2-3 times as thick, though. and they need to let us know what is going on with the editor and get it out. i've been using mine almost a year now, and the editior is always ALMOST ready. that sucks. the V1 and X1 delay is bull.

i was very thankful that ToreTC would give us info now and again. but i am sure he has been scared off by people on here complaining and demanding so much. I'm sure TC does care what we think, but they are not going to sweat it too much. and they probably don't care if poeple are selling their G's since they've already got the money.

here is what i got running:
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h172/anymon/grig.jpg

[aksman]

Early "OKTOBER" has passed!!!! WTF??????? AHHHHH!

[keychange]

But if you step back and think about it, Tore was bandaiding a bigger problem of poor communication between TC and their customers and did give updates that failed to provide accurate timelines which only raised our expectations falsely. I am not knocking his effort but just highlighting that it would not have been necessary for him to do so if they focused on supporting their product. I do not consider it to be complaining or demanding to much for them to provide a decent manual or to put more than the bare minimum into their responses. To think that they do not have the ability to test their product with other products is crazy.

[ryanformato]

Ok guys...I invited a friend over who is excellent at setting these kinds of things up...Well, here are the results...

He ran a whole bunch of tests on the G-system and determined the noise was definitely coming from the G-system. He did everything he could to get rid of the noise as well, but nothing he did worked. We plugged both my amp and G-system into the same power strip (to test if it was a ground loop) and nothing changed. He could not figure it out until...

He decided to use a hum eliminator. It was a dual hum eliminator. We plugged it into the preamp insert on the G-system and it got rid of the hum. He concluded that this was a problem inherent in the G-system and was not from my amps loop. SO, TC in my opinion is being very shady in their answers because they problem know that there is some sort of physical "problem" with their unit. Honestly, I am just happy I have no noise in my G-system. By the way, if you were having the same problem as me, here is your solution http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Ebtech-2Channel-Hum-Eliminator?sku=150450 (although it shouldn't have to be). What do you guys think?

[RichM]

Hi! Some of my pre-sets would sound better in stereo rather than mono.

Who is using the G-System in stereo mode? and what amp and speaker combinations are you using?

[supersecretjim]

He decided to use a hum eliminator. It was a dual hum eliminator. We plugged it into the preamp insert on the G-system and it got rid of the hum. He concluded that this was a problem inherent in the G-system and was not from my amps loop. SO, TC in my opinion is being very shady in their answers because they problem know that there is some sort of physical "problem" with their unit. Honestly, I am just happy I have no noise in my G-system. By the way, if you were having the same problem as me, here is your solution http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Ebtech-2Channel-Hum-Eliminator?sku=150450 (although it shouldn't have to be). What do you guys think?

Not to play devils advocate here, and as anyone who has seen my posts knows, I am not on the "TC is GOD" bandwagon. I am ready to jump on TC for just about anything. TC service is really sucking & the 2 years overdue editor & the year long wait for a software update isnt helping the situation...

But I gotta think this hum thing is not TCs fault. You have a ground loop hum. Big deal. The first time I experienced ground loop hum was when I used one of my Parker Flys into two amps at the same time from the stereo output. Should I sue Parker? Or Mesa Boogie for the Roadking? Or Peavey for the Triple XXX. Or Genz Benz for my Black Pearl? Or Crate for my acoustic amp? I get a ground loop hum when any of them are used at the same time. Maybe I should go after my home builder! Thats where the problem started. If they had done a better job isolating circuits, none of this would have ever happened!

Sorry for the sarcasm...Feels like your dealing with TC again, doesnt it!? Ha!

Are the amps I use pieces of crap because one or all introduced ground loop hum when hooked up at the same time? No.

Now, TCs demeanor when corresponding with you was definately in bad taste & only goes on to show that they are lacking in certain areas (customer service). Yes, thier support sucks. Yes, they often dont answer the questions people ask (Ive been there with them on the recieving end). And yes, they think they and thier products are untouchable & "it must be some other companies product in your chain that is causing this problem" seems to be a popular response.

Fortunately, for TC, they have the market cornered on this type of product. All we can do is live with it & try to sort things out.

Any product you use in your set up has the potential to introduce noise & in particular ground loop noise. Does TC have a responsibility to include ground noise isolation circuitry in the G-system? Probably not. Unless you were ready to pay additional $$$$$ for it when you bought your G-system. The difference in price would probably be way more than the cost of the little box you just got.

Sure, the convenience of having it all in one system would be great, but that would mean someone potentially made the perfect product.

Being guitarists/musicians we all know that will never happen.

[NicDoak]

Hi! Some of my pre-sets would sound better in stereo rather than mono.

Who is using the G-System in stereo mode? and what amp and speaker combinations are you using?

i am running everything stereo. i go from the G's stereo outs directly into my Rotosphere, then out to two Mesa combos, or just to the combos. sounds huge. the chorus and all of the dimesional effects need this setup. mono is so unnatural once you play in stereo.

[supersecretjim]

I just sent another mail through support to TC about the software update & software editor. Hope everyone else does the same!

[RichM]

i am running everything stereo. i go from the G's stereo outs directly into my Rotosphere, then out to two Mesa combos, or just to the combos. sounds huge. the chorus and all of the dimesional effects need this setup. mono is so unnatural once you play in stereo.


Thanks for the quick reply! Some more questions..

Do your amps have FX loops and are using them with the g-system? ..or are you going straight into the front of each amp?

Are you able to switch both amps channels simultaneously from the g-system?

Thanks again

RM

[supersecretjim]

I usually run through just one amp, but on occasion, in addition to my XXX ill run my Genz Benz black Pearl or my GK 250ml in stereo. I use the effects loop every time because it will allways sound best that way. Straight through the front or only in the effects loop is a compromise on many levels.

Hopefully you have a serial effects loop & not parallel. If you do have a parallel loop, many manufacturers turn the loop psuedo series if the loop level is turned to max. In that case, parallel should work as well as a dedicated series loop.

I do think that, unfortunately, the amps sounds get mixed together & processed digitally coming out of the G-system. This happens because the insert loop is mono as well as using another loop for the second amp (which is also running in 4 cable method just like the first amp) basically means the G-system is summing the total of the two amps.

Someone correct me if Im wrong.

It still sounds good, and its true stereo for the effects, just not for the amps sounds.

The only way I know of to get true stereo amp sounds is to go through the front end of one of the amps or maybe even both. You could set that amp as the dry amp, but effects will be a compromise if you choose to use them - such as deep stereo chorus or ping pong delay.

As far as switching goes -- my G-system always controls my Peavey XXXs 3 channels (its my default amp) & can simultaneously and independently change channels on either my GK 250ml & also switch on its effects as well either on presets or live. I also use it with the Genz Benz Black Pearl to engage the boost if I like.

To sum it up - Complete independent control of two amps running simultaneously!

Im not sure what kind of amps you are running through. I had to have a special cable made for my XXX because it uses a 7 pin DIN cable on one end & stereo 1/4" jack on the other to plug into the G-systems relay. The other 1/4" jack is used for either the GK or the Genz without adaptors because they both use 1/4" jacks for switching.

Look at the manual for ideas & have fun!

[gbtommasi]

I just sent another mail through support to TC about the software update & software editor. Hope everyone else does the same!

done!

[RichM]

I like the Mesa 'sound' currently running mono into a Lonestar Special Combo using 4 cable method. Thought about running the G-System through two 5:25 or 5:50 combo's. What do you think? (apart from its very expensive!)

[NicDoak]

Thanks for the quick reply! Some more questions..

Do your amps have FX loops and are using them with the g-system? ..or are you going straight into the front of each amp?

Are you able to switch both amps channels simultaneously from the g-system?

Thanks again

RM

i don't do any channel switching. i like Mesa's for their cleans. also, i run straight in (no effects loops). the sound quality is just great like this, and bypassing the loops might be why i've never had the issues that other people have.

[JLantern]

I've had the G-system for almost two years now, I bought it as soon as it was released. I've run through several different pieces of rack gear with it, and thought I might share my experiences with you guys. Prior to the GS, I had a G-Force for a year and a half, and in fact I used both until TC inlcuded the intelligent pitch shift in the GS.

Preamps first:
I've had an ART DST-4, which I used on our first LP. Great sounds, but a bit narrow on the variety side. Then came Tech21 PSA-1. It was great because its flexibility, I used it for a long time. But after I got myself a Rocktron Piranha, there was no turning back to transistor sounds from the tube bliss. Next purchase was an Engl 530 preamp, which is a great sounding piece of gear. Great warm cleans, and biting distortions. It was nearly there, but it never delivered "all the way", so I switched back to the Piranha. At a certain point, my rack had grown into 8 units (preamp + poweramp sections both 4U) and I figured there's got to be a more simple way of doing things. I got a bargain deal from a Rocktron Voodu Valve and that really was it for me. This baby has an enormously great EQ, and I've found that a necessity for finging my personal tone.

At the moment, I'm running a Mesa Formula Preamp for cleans, and a Rocktron Piranha for everything else. Mesa in the 1st loop, Piranha in 3rd. However, I'll be doing a switch from Piranha back to Voodu Valve... I really love that EQ, and the Piranha has a slight twang to it at the higher strings that I don't fancy.

Mesa has just about the best and warmest sounding cleans I've heard from any rack gear. The distorted sounds are a bunch of crap, but the cleans alone make it worth using. Voodu can pull off those nasty rhythm chunks I demand, as well as delicious semi distorted bluesy overdrive sounds. It's way more complicated in terms of dialing in the tones than Piranha, but sound wise the difference favors the Voodu.

Poweramps then:
I begun with a Rocktron Velocity 250. It did the job well, sounded nice, had plenty of power. Then of course I discovered the tube sound, and switched to Mesa 2:50. Rocked with that for two years if I remember correctly. After using a Peavey 5150 poweramp section in the studio, and also experiencing too much difficulties with the Mesa, I bought a Peavey Classic 50/50. The best sounding poweramp I've had so far, but lacks a bit on the sound pressure = not enough volume.

At present, I use an 80's Lee Jackson Perfect Connection SP-1000. I chose to use it rather than a Mesa 20/20 because of its sound (yes, it sounded better) and rather than the Peavey because the SP-1000 is more convenient to use. And the volume issue too, of course.

Other stuff:
Sonic Maximizer is a ... an ok thing. If used correctly, however, it really doesn't have much effect to the sound, so I decided not to include it in my present rig.

Boss MT-2 ... modded for tube zone tones. That I used as a booster, but it has as little effect as the Sonic Max, so I decided to spare that for studio experimenting only.

Altogether:
The rig at the present has one minor inconvenience - that neither the Mesa or Voodu have an input in the back panel, so I have to run cables from the back to the front to connect the two babies. Luckily, my 4 unit rack has just enough loose space to the cables to be squeezed through between two of the 4 pieces of gear (so I don't have to run the cables outside the rack housing).

A Triaxis, and some US made high end preamps I haven't had the chance to try out. But for example, Hughes & Kettner Triamp MKII barely put up for my gear tone wise, so that's something. Especially when you keep in mind that the Triamp costs 2500 euros, and the rig I now have only costs about a half of that (bought second hand... and excluding the GS, which I'd have to add to the Triamp too if I was to use that).

So, my recommendation for effective, functioning 4 unit rig for both studio and live use would be:
- Buy second hand gear if you can
- One or two convincing preamps that cover as much sounds as possible
- G-system for control & FX
- Pedals in the back of your rig, according to your taste
- 1 or 2 unit poweramp (depending wheather you have one or two preamps), a Mesa 20/20 is good enough in most cases

Well... Don't know if that makes any sense, but I had the time so I wrote it. Hope some of you will enjoy reading it :)

[supersecretjim]

TC Mailed me back with this response:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________________________________________

SubjectG-system software update & computer editor Discussion Thread Response (Mike)10/22/2007 06:52 AMDear James,


thank you for your e-mail.

the release was further delayed and we have asked product management for details. ->

“TC Electronic would like to apologize for the delay of the G-System Editor. We’re working full time on fixing some unforeseen bugs in the G-System MIDI implementation and expect a public beta of the G-System Editor along with a new G-System firmware to be released shortly.”

so, still no date but rest asured that the guys are on it and it is just a matter of time. from what we know in support here is that the Midi sync issue and pedal latency issues will be adressed among other things.

That is all the infos we have in support for now :(

Best regards,

Mike Customer (James Williams)10/20/2007 11:14 AMWhen is the new software update (3.0?) & the computer editor coming out? Its been about a year since software version 2.0 hit us. Plenty of people have been waiting for fixes & anything else included.

Last people heard from TC was late September or early October. Early October has came & went. Plenty of people would like to know. I would like to know.

Thank you.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________________________________________



So, I guess "shortly" is the word now.

[Ed DeGenaro]

Ok guys...I invited a friend over who is excellent at setting these kinds of things up...Well, here are the results...

He ran a whole bunch of tests on the G-system and determined the noise was definitely coming from the G-system. He did everything he could to get rid of the noise as well, but nothing he did worked. We plugged both my amp and G-system into the same power strip (to test if it was a ground loop) and nothing changed. He could not figure it out until...

He decided to use a hum eliminator. It was a dual hum eliminator. We plugged it into the preamp insert on the G-system and it got rid of the hum. He concluded that this was a problem inherent in the G-system and was not from my amps loop. SO, TC in my opinion is being very shady in their answers because they problem know that there is some sort of physical "problem" with their unit. Honestly, I am just happy I have no noise in my G-system. By the way, if you were having the same problem as me, here is your solution http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Ebtech-2Channel-Hum-Eliminator?sku=150450 (although it shouldn't have to be). What do you guys think?
No offense but I probably can introduce hum into any set-up. I use the G-system as one of my set-ups and there is no "inherent" hum here.

[Ed DeGenaro]

I usually run through just one amp, but on occasion, in addition to my XXX ill run my Genz Benz black Pearl or my GK 250ml in stereo. I use the effects loop every time because it will allways sound best that way. Straight through the front or only in the effects loop is a compromise on many levels.

Hopefully you have a serial effects loop & not parallel. If you do have a parallel loop, many manufacturers turn the loop psuedo series if the loop level is turned to max. In that case, parallel should work as well as a dedicated series loop.

I do think that, unfortunately, the amps sounds get mixed together & processed digitally coming out of the G-system. This happens because the insert loop is mono as well as using another loop for the second amp (which is also running in 4 cable method just like the first amp) basically means the G-system is summing the total of the two amps.

Someone correct me if Im wrong.

It still sounds good, and its true stereo for the effects, just not for the amps sounds.

The only way I know of to get true stereo amp sounds is to go through the front end of one of the amps or maybe even both. You could set that amp as the dry amp, but effects will be a compromise if you choose to use them - such as deep stereo chorus or ping pong delay.

As far as switching goes -- my G-system always controls my Peavey XXXs 3 channels (its my default amp) & can simultaneously and independently change channels on either my GK 250ml & also switch on its effects as well either on presets or live. I also use it with the Genz Benz Black Pearl to engage the boost if I like.

To sum it up - Complete independent control of two amps running simultaneously!

Im not sure what kind of amps you are running through. I had to have a special cable made for my XXX because it uses a 7 pin DIN cable on one end & stereo 1/4" jack on the other to plug into the G-systems relay. The other 1/4" jack is used for either the GK or the Genz without adaptors because they both use 1/4" jacks for switching.

Look at the manual for ideas & have fun!I must be missing something, when you say the amp sound isn't stereo...
How do you expect a mono source being stereo?

[Ed DeGenaro]

One of the biggest challenges I find with the G-System is using it with more than one amp. That's why I'm so desperate for the editor - each amp seems to like a lot different gain settings. You get it all dialed up for the Flexi, and switch it to the Rivera, and all the levels need to be tweaked. And the Stingray is another whole set of level changes.
Well, but that has less to do with the G-System the the amps you're using.
How is the editor gonna help?

[benttop]

Well, but that has less to do with the G-System the the amps you're using.
How is the editor gonna help?

Actually I can't say it will until I see what they have built in to it. >>IF<< you can save global setup in a file, then I will be able to craft different gain structures for each of the amps that I want to use here, save them each, and restore them as needed. If they leave that out, it won't help me at all in that regard.

[supersecretjim]

I must be missing something, when you say the amp sound isn't stereo...
How do you expect a mono source being stereo?

Only a fool would expect a mono sound to be stereo.

What I stated in my post was if you are running two amps in a 7 cable or Dual 4 cable hookup, the output is summed by the G-system. The effects are stereo, but the two amps sounds are not separated. The amp in the loop feeds the amp in the insert loop, unless you run only one at a time. TC has not addressed this issue. I am not sure if it is software or hardware based. If its software, it can be fixed in a future update (maybe by the year 2010!) if its hardware your ****ed, unless you use external switchers.

You can avoid all that if you run into the front of the amps, but then your effects quality suffers & probably the sound of the amps as well.



About how the editor may help:

Lets say you play in 2 or 3 bands...

Say one night you have a country gig & use the appropriate amp with the G-system. Everything is great.

Then next night you have an 80s hair metal tribute gig (it could happen!) & use a completely different amp. Your settings for levels, loops, etc... probably will not be optimal for the second gig.

Two nights from that, a pop/contemporary band using a different amp...You get the point.

A forty song set list could use up a good portion of your presets. Plus all the different levels that need to be set. A song may have 2 or three or more patches in it. Sometimes its just easier to move from song one to another along with G-system pages. Each page holds five patches. Next song, next page. Next band, next file.

With the software editor you could have complete G-system downloads that would be appropriate for any gig you have. Country one night, no prob, just load the saved file and voila! Your set. Metal the next night with your high gain amp - load the file to the editor & badda bing! Done.

Now do you see the value of the editor & why so many people want it? This is just one aspect of it. Im sure theres a list a mile long of other great benefits.

[Mike33]

Does anybody using the G with the amps parallel loop? What are your experiences?
I know that TC recommends using the serial loop but I tried the parallel loop yesterday and had some issues. (Badger with the Minimix)

1. Even if I turned up the effect to 100% I had the feeling that on the wet cab I heard some of the dry signal. I had not that "out of phase" effect some people declared but I heard some dry tone.
2. Whammy effect is mixed with the dry and the wet tone. I hear the tone I pitch up two octaves but the original tone I hear as well. I know the reason why this happens but it sucks. That means I have to use a separate Whammy in front of the G and can not use the internal one! Maybe in the next release its possible to move some of the effects in front of all like the Wha wha or the compressor.
3. When I switched to the tuner the signal was not muted anymore. Where does TC cut the sound for muting when tuning?

Maybe there are more issues with using the parallel loop but had not the time to find out them by myself.

To be honest I did not hear any improvements of my sound when going parallel instead of serial. But nice try anyway...
I will try the parallel loop again as soon they bring out the new release maybe there is something like a "killdry" in it like they have on the G-Force.

[Laird_Williams]

I do feel that it is a ground loop when it comes to the Legacy and the g-sys because iso boxes fix the problem, but for some reason the g-sys is the only thing I own that creates a ground loop through the legacy. I have a handful of pedals and none of them produce a ground hum in the legacy loop. There has to be more to this story.

There is lots to this story - and none of it is TCs fault except perhaps their half-witted (or less, perhaps) communication with their customers.

Your pedals are connected to the wall through a transformer. This transformer down-steps the voltage going to the pedal and also (usually) rectifies (converts from AC to DC) the power. In doing so, it provides a level of isolation from the AC ground that substantially reduces the probability of creating a ground loop.

The G does this rectification and transformation inside of the enclosure, since it needs many different voltages, some AC and some DC. As such, the grounding scheme is necessarily more complex than for a pedal. This is true of all complex equipment - not just the G. This means that, by its nature, the G is more prone to ground loops than a simple pedal. This is as it should be.

Remember that a manufacturer can make few assumptions about the topology of the system into which their unit is being inserted. As such, they cannnot know a-priori where a ground loop will occur. To guarantee the nobody gets a ground loop with the G, TC would have to transformer isolate every potentially-line-level input and output on the G. At a mininimum, they woud need to isolate the insert return and both channels of the output. Optimally, they would need to isolate each of the loops too. And for those cases where the loops are carrying guitar-level rather than line-level signals on one or the other leads, an isolation transformer could be a bad thing. Further, do you have any idea how much that would boost the price of the unit?

Far better to advise people to locate their own ground loops and fix them with an inexpensive off-the-shelf solution.

Pro studios often isolate every one of their line-level links between peices of equipment. Good quality isolation units like the EbTech unit are inexpensive, extremely efficient, quiet, and don't screw with touch response or anything else when placed on a line-level link. This is common enough that EbTech sells a very-successful rack version of their isolator that has 8 channels of isolation.

ALSO - please note that if you have rack-mounted the "brain" of the G, then be sure to isolate the enclosure from the rack rails by using non-conducting washers between both the rack and the G, and the screw-heads and the G. Audio links are not the only potential sources of ground loops. Ground loops can form through conducting metal rack rails between the chassis grounds of equipment mounted in the rack.

[supersecretjim]

Some good info there, Laird.

[Laird_Williams]

Some good info there, Laird.
Thanks Jim.

I've been building custom guitar amps with a buddy of mine for a while. As part of this, we have also disected and reverse-engineered a fair amount of rack equipment.

By necessity, I have had to learn more about grounding than I ever really cared to know. Grounding is one of the least understood and most important aspects of audio systems design. I still know far far less than I should.

I also have owned a G almost since they came out - and had HUUUGE ground loop issues in a couple of different configurations. A 2-channel EbTech solved the problem. I now have the 8-channel in the rack in my home studio and am a big fan of these. While there are many potential sources of ground loops with a G, in my experience, a 2-channel unit placed as follows fixes the vast majority of ground loop issues in a typical setup:

Amp FX Send -> Isolator Channel 1 -> G-System Insert Return
G-system Out -> Isolator Channel 2 -> Amp FX Return

People also need to understand that isolation transformers like the EbTech are NOT replacements for balanced, or at least very-well-shielded, cables. Electromagnetic interference from other equipment can still induce a signal on your patch cables even if there is not a ground loop. An isolation transformer will NOT block those signals.


Oh yeah - on the editor front:
I want one - for backup and to change configurations - but MOSTLY to save MY back. I'm an old fart and sitting on the floor programming the dang thing gets painful. And I still get confused which edit mode I am in and which knob to twiddle - so I sometimes lose changes because I pressed the wrong button. I think the programming on the G is great given the medium, and I have managed to customize almost everythign in it to some degree (midi messages, relay switching, button reassignment, etc.) - but from a human-factors standpoint an editor would be much nicer.

[Blues123]

Don't worry. The magical month of "Oktober" will soon be here!!
Is that after November?
Oh, and which year?

After having spent a whole week programming the G, I for one can't wait for the editor. I just wish I had the slightest confidence in its delivery!!

[aksman]

I just sent another mail through support to TC about the software update & software editor. Hope everyone else does the same!

just did it

[gbtommasi]

just fyi, this is the reply i received from tc:

----------------------------------------------------------------
Response (Nicholas)10/22/2007 12:16 AM

Dear Giovanni,

I have sent your email to product management.
As a personal comment and being myself dedicated to G-System support, I can only agree with you.
I keep pressing PM every day, reporting inputs like yours.
I am not giving any more estimated date because I have no clue, and also because the last times I did, it was not true.

Regards Customer (giovanni tommasi)10/21/2007 12:10 AM

Dear sirs,
Almost two years have passed since the latest G-System software update have been released. There are bugs in the unit that really needs to be fixed, such the volume pedal lag for instance, which makes it unusable.
Should we talk about the editor?

C'mon, is this TC Electronic, I mean the Company which is a leader in the effects industry? Well TC's reputation is not having a ramp up in this period. Do something, say something, say a date at least.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

As a result of all this, i have to say i do not hope anymore in the editor, but i am mad about the software update. This is something due to the customers when there are problems to be fixed on a 1400$ piece of gear...
For the support, i have to say it is always been good in my case, i just think they have some problems inside the company...

:(

[jelyfinger]

They are too busy launching all their recent products to worry about taking care of existing customers. "We already got your money" and are seeking new victims! It will be a cold day in hell before i buy another TC product!

[Ikarus]

Can anyone tell me how i can save the channel switching on the g in patches. I have changed the boost switch on the g to switch channels on my mesa lonestar, but i cant save the on/off setting for it. When I switch to the drive channel it stays that way even if I switch patches. I want to be able to switch patches and the channel at the same time. Can anyone help me?

[Sadhaka]

Can anyone tell me how i can save the channel switching on the g in patches. I have changed the boost switch on the g to switch channels on my mesa lonestar, but i cant save the on/off setting for it. When I switch to the drive channel it stays that way even if I switch patches. I want to be able to switch patches and the channel at the same time. Can anyone help me?

Don't know if this will help but here goes.

I found with my Lone Star that the channel relay selects the drive channel by default (actually my friend helped me realise this - thanks Tim!). So any patch you select will have the drive channel on.

I decided to set the boost switch to change between the solo and normal settings on the Lone Star in relay B and then use relay A to set patches to have the channel 1 or 2. Say I have patch 1 set to a clean sound with chorus. When I set the relay A for that sound, I have to set it to a configuration that has channel 1 selected on the amp. Then I can copy that sound to patch 2 and set the relay A to the drive channel.

Also, it is best to use two cables going from the g system to the channel switching on the back panel of the amp.

Sorry if this didn't answer your question well. It's late and I'm tired. Will check tomorrow :-)

[LegGodt]

Any software engineers out there? Let's reverse engineer this thing and write our own Editor! I can't do it on my own, but I'm willing to help.

I'm also an avid LEGO collector and when the first robotics kit came out the community wasn't happy with the programming enviroment so they reverse engineered the brain from the kit and they wrote their own programming enviroment. I'm sure there are some people here that can figure this out.

[RichM]

JLantern: Wow! Thanks for the description of your (enjoyable) journey through stereo land. I too like Mesa for its clean sounds and tend to use different drive pedals in the G-S loops for dirtier sounds whilst still playing through the Mesa's clean channel.

I would really want to have just one (easy to use) stereo pre-amp and one stereo power amp. Are you saying that the Mesa Formula Preamp combined with the Peavey Classic 50/50 is your favorite combination?

As long as the tone is good I'm happy. It doesn't have to be perfect. I would rather spend time playing than time on tweaking settings to get a tone thats 5-10% better - if you know what I mean.

I appreciate your advice, and will look at s/h equipment if I can find it..

[aksman]

Here we go again... Reply from TC:

the editor will be released shortly. Our developers are working on it and hope to have a public version out by beginning of December.


Best,

Mike

[gbtommasi]

I am not waiting for it anymore. When it comes, it comes. If it ever comes actually :)

[Proteus]

I hope its worth the wait!!!

[supersecretjim]

like I said days ago ... the official word now is "shortly".

They also said that may only be a beta version.

[Blues123]

This is a f%$&ing joke.
My Pod may not sound as good, but I have an editor and regular software updates and no bugs. Basically, it works.
Come on TC get your act together. You may have our money, but we expect and are entitled to get better service than this!!

And yes, I have emailed them AGAIN!!

[dgibbz82]

hey guys, i've had my gsystem for about three weeks. i just finally got it all dialed in with my mesa boogie dual rectifier and it sounds great. the last step i need to figure out is how to switch channels using the gsystem. my axess electronics cfx4 came and i'm a little confused on how it all works. i have the custom cable that goes from my head to the cfx4. and i'm running a 5 pin midi cable from the gsys midi out to the cfx4 midi in. the cfx4 has a 7 pin midi connection, would running a 5 pin into the 7 pin work? or do i need to find a cable that has 5 pin on one side and 7 pin on the other.

once its all setup, do i use program change mode or control change mode on the cfx4? if it's control change mode, should i use cc1, cc2, cc3, or cc4? and after all of that, how do i use the gsystem to tell the cfx4 what channel and everything to be on. i'm just really confused. this post might have even been confusing. hopefully someone can point me in the right direction. thanks a lot guys!

-david

[supersecretjim]

I havent done the midi thing yet. Soon Im getting a Marshall JVM410(sounds pretty good & has midi control). Just gotta find good homes for my XXX combos & some other stuff.

[benttop]

Time to post our reviews on Harmony Central then....

[Laird_Williams]

...once its all setup, do i use program change mode or control change mode on the cfx4? if it's control change mode, should i use cc1, cc2, cc3, or cc4? and after all of that, how do i use the gsystem to tell the cfx4 what channel and everything to be on. i'm just really confused. this post might have even been confusing. hopefully someone can point me in the right direction. thanks a lot guys!

David,

It depends on what you cfx4 expects to see. The G can send just about anything.

In general, you will program the G to send Program Change (PC) messages when you switch patches. This way, each patch can use the cfx4 setup that has the right sound for that patch. Oddly, the Program-Patch Map is not part of editing a particular patch (brain dead - I know), it is a global setting where you have to edit the patch change table manually. The patch change table is a lookup table where the key is the G-System patch ID and the associated value is the MIDI program number.

If you want to switch channels or amp parameters on the fly, you usually use CC numbers and reprogram a button on the G to toggle between two MIDI controller values.

I have all of this working with a VHT Valvulator GP3 preamp (3 channels). I reprogrammed the G's boost to send the GP3 CC messages to toggle the GP3s boost feature - which is about a zillion times better than the boost on the G, which just attenuates and then un-attenuates the signal and sucks tone big-time. I also reprogrammed the filter button to toggle the bright switch, and since I am not using one of the loops, I reprogrammed the loop3 button to toggle the deep switch. I also have the G send PC messages on patch changes to get the channel and initial amp options I want. The net is I can completely control the GP3 from the G-system. I never have to walk over to the amp and have to do VERY little tap-dancing when playing - which is the whole point behind the G's control features.

I can help you with programming if you like. I will need you to send me a private message with your e-mail and a PDF of the cfx4 manual if you can find one.

[aksman]

it's been days since someone's posted on this thread... could this editor stuff have turned so many off to discussing this $15000 paperweight?

[Laird_Williams]

it's been days since someone's posted on this thread... could this editor stuff have turned so many off to discussing this $15000 paperweight?
Its not a paperweight - and yer off by a decimal order of magnitude.

[aksman]

Its not a paperweight - and yer off by a decimal order of magnitude.


haha, that's what i get for typing quickly... $1500! there we go!

and ya, if it were a paperweight it would be able to work on my desktop... ohhhhh! get it??? computer editor please!!! haha.

[Ikarus]

I just love the sarcassm in aksman and i love the intelectual rantings of laird. Bless you guys. Peace.

[ny10547]

Hi Guys
I am new to this forum although I have had the G System for a little while now. I haven't had the time to really sink my teeth into the thing though. Mostly I just gloss over everything. Now I have some time so I have a question to ask. On all the timing settings there are D's and T's. I hate to show my ignorance, however, what are they for and what does it give me sound wise? How does the tap tempo effect a D/T setting if I use it?

Also, I sent a note to Support at TC Electronics. They got right back to me in less than 12 hours. I asked a few questions, but the one I thought you might like to know is about the update. Apparently they are considering releasing the update before the editor if the editor takes much longer. Good for some and not good for others I guess. Just thought you would like to know.

The other question I asked them was about midi. I have a GSP1101 and an Adrenalinn III hooked up around the G. I was hoping that I could use the volume and expression pedals that are hooked up to the G to control parameters on either of the other units. Alas, no dice. The G only sends program changes. Not sure about on/off type messages though.

Anywayts, thanks. Great board you have here.

[orangenoise]

D's and T's are for different notes.

ie. 1/8D is a dotted eighth note... 1/4T is for a quarter note triplet.

[ny10547]

Thanks for the response. Now that you told me I can't understand why I didn't see it before. Oh well. And I give my wife a hard time for not paying attention. :)
Again thanks.

[mitch236]

I hear all the complaining about an editor and I agree that an editor would be a great addition but I also understand the complexity of software and why it might take so long to produce. After all, there is no financial gain to be had by rushing the editor so it takes a back burner postion. It will come though.

What I want desperately is a proper owner's manual. Tell me everything about the unit and how to set ALL the parameters (or at least what they all do). Sometimes I feel I should hire a recording engineer to help me set it up.


All in all though, it is a great unit and when you add up what a couple of "boutique" effects cost, it is a great value as well.

Count me as one satisfied customer.

[Laird_Williams]

What I want desperately is a proper owner's manual. Tell me everything about the unit and how to set ALL the parameters (or at least what they all do). Sometimes I feel I should hire a recording engineer to help me set it up.


All in all though, it is a great unit and when you add up what a couple of "boutique" effects cost, it is a great value as well.

Count me as one satisfied customer.

I could not agree more Mitch. The manual is the big weak spot,
(that and the pedal lag for those who use volume/expression pedals, which I don't).

We almost need a book for this thing. Some kind of "for Dummies" or "missing manual" style book.

Included should be practical chapters on:

Setting the gain - a step-by-step guide to optimizing the gain structure of your amp and the G system.
Taming Hum and Ground Loops - why they happen and how best to prevent them
Getting the best tone and dynamics - screw the boost and compressor features unless you really need them. Including the steps needed to completely bag the boost feature all together.
Switching using Relays or MIDI - Including step-by-step guides to setting the MIDI mappings, setting Relay configurations, and reprogramming buttons to support both MIDI CC and Relay Toggle modes.
Using Amp FX Loops - how to get the most from the G when using your amp's loop.
The Real World - Examples of actual configurations used by actual users, including wiring diagrams and key configuration parameters choices.We're never going to get this from TC. We'd need to do it ourselves.
I'd be willing to contribute some info. It would save me a lot of effort answering individual questions. I bet others would contribute parts too.

Hmmm...I hear "WIKI" in this. Do any of you folks have a place/way we could set up a G-System Wiki server somewhere? Or even a "G-Whatever" Wiki, so G-Major and G-Natural users would have a place to go.

[NicDoak]

^^
You should really check out tcgpage.com. that would be a great spot to collectively bring all this info together.

[ny10547]

My response from TC regarding some of the effects:

"Delays
If you specify 1/4, the delay tap will sync to the Tap Tempo, or correspond to the quarter notes. If you specify 1/8, the taps will be half the tempo (8th notes). D= dotted and T= triplets. In music scores the dotted note is equal to 1.5 times the usual time value. so a dotted quarter note is equal to 1.5 beat or 1 quarter note + 1/8 note. Applying this to delay will generate syncopated delay taps. Triplet will replace the time value of 2 identical notes with 3 notes. Example 2x8th notes = 1 beat = 1x triplet of 8th notes. If you specify 1/8 T in the tempo, each beat will be divided in 3 taps.

Reverbs
It is impossible to give tricks. The best I can propose is that you start with copying some of the factory presets reverb blocks and check how the settings are, then modify some of the parameters. There is actually no real rule to sound good. It is a lot of matter of personal taste.

Noise Gate
The noise gate is supposed to eliminate your floor noise which can be loud in high gain channels. A small hint is to play first with the Threshold. Set it to the point where you don't hear the noise. Then play on the guitar and check that the notes are audible or not cut too early. If your notes get cut too fast, reduce the speed until you have a good reaction of the gate."

__________________________________________________ _______

That is what I have so far with setting of parameters. I am still experimenting a lot with them trying to figure some of them out. TC support said to send any questions their way and they will do what they can to answer them. They got back to me within a day each time. Hope this starts to help.

[Laird_Williams]

^^
You should really check out tcgpage.com. that would be a great spot to collectively bring all this info together.

Looks to me like a discussion forum and not a Wiki.
Do you need a lesson in the differences?

A Wiki would be a FAR better medium for the kind of information I am talking about here.
A Wiki combined with a discussion forum would be even better - but since there are already forums out there...

[benttop]

A Wiki would be a FAR better medium for the kind of information I am talking about here.
A Wiki combined with a discussion forum would be even better - but since there are already forums out there...

A while back, I started down that path - I'm not certain that it's the way to go now, but if you are interested in doing some writing, and the rest of the folks here want to write on the subject, I'll offer up my music gear wiki at http://www.musigearwiki.strayca.com (http://www.musigearwiki.strayca.com/) - just play nice!

[keychange]

Do any of you guys have a good method for balancing the patch levels? I am used to have a main volume setting for the independant patches rather then a global volume level. I know that many of the individual effects have a volume level but I am wondering how you can consistently balance the levels across patches using different effects?? I have spent a bit of time toying around with it but am hoping someone has already tackled this and figured out a simple approach. Along with this, I have a Jem wh7v and A Les Paul Studio light with Emg 81&85's that are considerably louder then a stock Les Paul Studio that I use and I am wondering how the to get the levels to match without messing with my tone?? I am using different banks for each guitar but I am not sure what volumes I should be dropping?? Am I missing some thing or does anyone have any ideas?

[Laird_Williams]

A while back, I started down that path - I'm not certain that it's the way to go now, but if you are interested in doing some writing, and the rest of the folks here want to write on the subject, I'll offer up my music gear wiki at http://www.musigearwiki.strayca.com (http://www.musigearwiki.strayca.com/) - just play nice!

You're a gem dude. I will certainly do some writing.
We should also cull info from the various forums.
We can referee each other's submissions to make sure things are accurate.
I DO promise to play nice.

Time to draft a "Ground Loops" section I guess.

[Tore TC]

Hi all,

I think the idea of starting a forum on G-System is a great idea, but you may want to wait a little while before building one from the ground up. :)

Regarding the editor I don't think I can apologize enough for this totally unacceptable delay. I can't stress enough that we're working full time to finish the editor - in fact we just hired another developer to work on the editor solely.

The reason for the delay is that the a specific part of the G-System hardware has been causing us severe problems when communicating with the device. The editor it self is pretty much finished, but the firmware update still needs some work, which is why we haven't released the firmware as some of you have suggested.

I'll keep you guys updated on the progress of the editor and promise that you will be the first guys to know as soon as the editor is ready.

Humbly,
Tore

[gbtommasi]

Dear Tore,

Thanks for letting us know the latest news!
But, could i just try to ask: would it be possibile to release the software update (given that it's finsihed of course), before the patch editor?
:drool

[supersecretjim]

Whats a Wiki?

And how would it benefit us?

[Tore TC]

Dear Tore,

Thanks for letting us know the latest news!
But, could i just try to ask: would it be possibile to release the software update (given that it's finsihed of course), before the patch editor?
:drool

Yep, it might be possible. The firmware update that contains bug fixes like the expression pedal latency is ready. But the bug that has been troubling us for so long is related to G-System, so everybody would have to update the G-System firmware again as soon as the editor is ready.

I will look into the possibility of releasing the software as is and get you guys an update next week.

/tore

[digitalkettle]

Thanks for the update, Tore.

Are the X1/V1 pedals also being held back for a grand release date? I'm imagining a huge stockpile of pedals in your warehouses.

I'm personally a bit dubious about consecutive firmware 'mini-releases'...but I'm sure plenty here would disagree with me...so I'll take what I'm given ;-)

[supersecretjim]

That would be awesome, Tore!

[aksman]

Yep, it might be possible. The firmware update that contains bug fixes like the expression pedal latency is ready. But the bug that has been troubling us for so long is related to G-System, so everybody would have to update the G-System firmware again as soon as the editor is ready.

I will look into the possibility of releasing the software as is and get you guys an update next week.

/tore



YAY, progress!!!

I don't really notice any expression pedal latency, though...

The biggest problem I have with expression pedal use is that it doesn't work properly when using the auto-on funciton engaged as part of a preset (i.e. if I have the wah set on a patch, when i go to it, the patch has the wah sweep locked onto the value of its position when it was saved, and then only disengages when you rock the expression pedal, rather than being "off" until it's first moved)

Is this consistent with everyone else's experiences???



p.s. i pray there's some sort of volume swell in the filters section... it's an easy effect and would free up my insert loop (fingers crossed).

[Laird_Williams]

Whats a Wiki?

And how would it benefit us?

A Wiki is a web site where the users provide the content.
Once the content is created, though, it acts just like any old web site.

It really holds a different role than a forum - and a wiki and a forum together can be extremely powerful.

The problem with a forum for technical information is that old posts never die, even when the information in them is out-dated. While a thread can have a message added that updates the prior information, the prior information is still there - can still be found with a search, and can still create confusion. Wiki submissions can be updated. Once a submission is updated, then the old information is not visible any more - not even to a search. (Some Wiki's have content management features so you can roll-back to an old version if someone messes up - but in general...)

Also - forum discussions are, by their nature, threaded. The single-threadedness of discussion forums is a strength for some things and a weakness for others. They model conversations well. They model other kinds of information flow poorly - at best. Wikis are web-like. They are not single-threaded and they support much richer relationships between topics.

Wikis can be open-access or closed.
Content submissions can be posted immediately or refereed.
The definitive example of a Wiki these days is WikiPedia.

COMBINE a discussion forum and a Wiki, and you have a fantastic on-line colaboration facility. You can cull the discussion forums to get Wiki article content, and you can point people to the Wiki when they ask questions asked there.

A good example of this model is in the SlimServer Wiki/Forums.
SlimServer does not even really HAVE a manual - it has the Wiki, so it really does not need one. And before you tell us that Slimserver is a lot less complicated than a G-System, I can set you straight on that one too.

This is the kind of model that would really help with the G-system.

[Tore TC]

The biggest problem I have with expression pedal use is that it doesn't work properly when using the auto-on funciton engaged as part of a preset (i.e. if I have the wah set on a patch, when i go to it, the patch has the wah sweep locked onto the value of its position when it was saved, and then only disengages when you rock the expression pedal, rather than being "off" until it's first moved)

Is this consistent with everyone else's experiences???

p.s. i pray there's some sort of volume swell in the filters section... it's an easy effect and would free up my insert loop (fingers crossed).

That will be fixed in the new software as well.

And just so that you all don't get your hopes up. The editor is the "star" of the new release. If we decide to release the software without the editor it will be bug fixes only. So sorry... no volume swell in this release. :(

But I can garantee you that I'm writing down all the great suggestions posted here, so there's a good chance a lot of them will end up in releases down the road.

[supersecretjim]

Ok,

So the Wiki is definately a good thing.

Are we going to jump onto the Wiki that was offered up at http://www.musigearwiki.strayca.com/ ?

Sure would get rid of a lot of redundant info & reading pages of posts to find the bit you need.

Im in.

[benttop]

Ok,

So the Wiki is definately a good thing.

Are we going to jump onto the Wiki that was offered up at http://www.musigearwiki.strayca.com/ ?

Sure would get rid of a lot of redundant info & reading pages of posts to find the bit you need.

Im in.

You are welcome to post anything useful there. If a lot of useful stuff starts appearing, more people will use it. Right now it is unused, so it's a resource that is totally available.

[Itsik]

In order to keep it clean and tidy, I suggest we start off by making up a list of topics in a logical order.
I'll start posting some stuff about setup and sound probebly tommorow ...

[benttop]

Well I think the manual has the right topics, it just doesn't go deep enough.

[photios]

I have a question about my G-System but I don't want to wade thru 97 pages of stuff...hopefully someone will help me in spite of my laziness.

Q: Can I shutoff the spillover of effects from patch to patch? I don't want the reverb and delay to spillover...when I change presets, I want it to instantly chop off the effects from the old preset and start in on the new...can the GS do that?

[supersecretjim]

Is anyone here using a Fractal Audio Axe-FX? Just curious & wondering if it integrates & controls well with the G-system.

I hear the company owner gives awesome customer service & will do updates sometimes a day after someone mails or calls him with a problem.

Scott Peterson was one of the early guys on this G-system thread & now he is utterly devoted to the Axe-FX.

I was going to buy a Marshall JVM after I sell a few things, but Im kinda thinking about the Fractal Axe-FX. It seems to be a pretty amazing piece. Its just impossible to try one out since the guy builds them out of his house (from what I hear) & there are no dealers - he only sells direct.

It would be pretty nice not having to deal with tubes anymore to get a good & realistic sound. Its supposed to have the best digital amp sounds out there period. Not even in the same league as Line 6, Boss, Vox, Digitech & any others you could name. Also (and this is key) you can configure a power amp including sag & other parameters to make it super realistic going into a P.A. or solid state stereo amp! or both at the same time OR into a Tube head & P.A. -- this thing really seems amazing.

BTW, the effects are supposed to be at least on par with TC & Eventide on the whole. Pitch shifting is reportedly worlds above TC (no surprise since TCs pitch shifting & harmonizing is mediocre at best) & right with eventide for $1700.00 - 2200.00 for the ultra model.

Customer service is the big thing Im hearing about. This guy really seems to care about each & every customer like his life depended on them being happy. Which being a small upstart company, it kinda does!

[supersecretjim]

A friend of mine was talking with one of Steve Vai's techs & he stated that on tour, Steve has 3 G-systems (2 are back ups, I assume) but they are far from stock.

The crappy 15 year old technology green display we all enjoy has been replaced with something thats actually easy to read & his units have effects that we dont have now & may never see. Ill almost guarantee his has been updated past v. 2.01 as well.

I can hear the boys at TC now... "Oh, its for Mr Vai, tell him we'll e-mail an update patch by tomorrow morning"

Sucks being one of the masses.

[pdouds]

dumb question, but has anyone used this as a looper, or does it have that capability?

[sinasl1]

Hmmm I'll say it again-

Leslie, Univibe and at least all the delay options that are in TC's own little Nova delay pedal would be very nice indeed. How bout that, TC? Cmon give us some fun useful stuff to play with, 10 years ago Lexicon did it in the MPX G2, you should be able to cram a bit more in this thing in the year 2008...

[ttosh]

This has been a great read, I am trying to decide if this is the unit for me. Can anybody give their opinions on how good the pitch shift is, in regards to the intelligent pitch shift versus Eventide and any other quality units?

Also other than the features on this unit are the effects the same quality as the G Major? I realize this unit does a lot more than the G Major regarding loops, etc but for good quality effects are they both very similiar?

[gbtommasi]

This has been a great read, I am trying to decide if this is the unit for me. Can anybody give their opinions on how good the pitch shift is, in regards to the intelligent pitch shift versus Eventide and any other quality units?

Also other than the features on this unit are the effects the same quality as the G Major? I realize this unit does a lot more than the G Major regarding loops, etc but for good quality effects are they both very similiar?

well, Eventide is a world apart for pitch shifting, but it is a price apart also, if you consider that effects like chorus, delay, reverb, filters and compressor are stellar on g-system, imo.
Algorithms are the G-Force ones, according to Tore. According to my ears too, since i have compared the two units.

[gbtommasi]

A friend of mine was talking with one of Steve Vai's techs & he stated that on tour, Steve has 3 G-systems (2 are back ups, I assume) but they are far from stock.

The crappy 15 year old technology green display we all enjoy has been replaced with something thats actually easy to read & his units have effects that we dont have now & may never see. Ill almost guarantee his has been updated past v. 2.01 as well.

I can hear the boys at TC now... "Oh, its for Mr Vai, tell him we'll e-mail an update patch by tomorrow morning"

Sucks being one of the masses.

mmm...
maybe you should ask yourself why, if they actually have updates for g-system software, they should not release them for the whole customer base and reserve them for Mr. Vai... what's the big deal? From an industrial point of view, this would be fool!
Seems a very strange policy...

[supersecretjim]

Mr Vai is a very strange guy. In the best way possible!

His units arent stock. Do you think for one second that TC isnt going to bend over backward for him?

The G-system has been out for about 3 years now & Vai is the only high profile guy using it. If I owned a company, & only had one prominant musician "endorsing" my flagship guitar processor, Id be doing anything I could to make him happy. The unfortunate thing is, TC cant seem to give the little people the care they deserve.

Why do we have to wait over a year to fix a wah auto on glitch & volume pedal lag?

Absurd.

Also, Tore had mentioned back in March or April, I think, that the software update was ready then, but being held for release with the editor. I asked on this forum & sent a request to TC support back then to just release the update by its self. Tore thought that to be a good idea as well. Obviously the TC elite didnt think so.

In addition, the computer editor was done entirely by someone other than TC & just recently got back to TC & now they are sorting out bugs between TC software & computer editor software. So this whole time TC could have been adding effects such as volume swell, Uni-vibe/Rotary, routable effects etc... to the G-system arsenal. Instead, to quote Tore "the editor is the star of the show" & only bug fixes are coming on this next update - whenever it shows.

Pretty weak.

[supersecretjim]

This has been a great read, I am trying to decide if this is the unit for me. Can anybody give their opinions on how good the pitch shift is, in regards to the intelligent pitch shift versus Eventide and any other quality units?

Also other than the features on this unit are the effects the same quality as the G Major? I realize this unit does a lot more than the G Major regarding loops, etc but for good quality effects are they both very similiar?

Pitch shift is mediocre. Not even close to Eventide & other high end processors. Sounds like pitch shifting by Hasbro!

The overall effects quality is quite good & definately worth the price of admission. Overall, Im very happy with my G-system, but TCs support seems terrible.

There is a relative newcomer in the game now. Fractal Audio. look them up & check out their user forum. Pretty impressive & effects wise is at least on par with TC, Eventide & lexicon. The manual is an informative read.

Fractals product has only been out about a year, but already has a working software editor & a place to post & trade presets! All this from a very small company. The designer/owner (Cliff) is active in the Fractal forum & others as well & personally takes time to answer questions & address concerns. Ive even heard he has released updates within a coulple days of being notified of a problem.

TC - TAKE NOTE!!!!!

Thats customer service!!!!!!

His Fractal Audio Axe FX units are backordered about 4-6 months right now. Im thinking about getting one to supplement my G-system.

Fractal also has a uni-vibe & rotary...

TC - Its time to catch up.

[ttosh]

Pitch shift is mediocre. Not even close to Eventide & other high end processors. Sounds like pitch shifting by Hasbro!

The overall effects quality is quite good & definately worth the price of admission. Overall, Im very happy with my G-system, but TCs support seems terrible.

There is a relative newcomer in the game now. Fractal Audio. look them up & check out their user forum. Pretty impressive & effects wise is at least on par with TC, Eventide & lexicon. The manual is an informative read.

Fractals product has only been out about a year, but already has a working software editor & a place to post & trade presets! All this from a very small company. The designer/owner (Cliff) is active in the Fractal forum & others as well & personally takes time to answer questions & address concerns. Ive even heard he has released updates within a coulple days of being notified of a problem.

TC - TAKE NOTE!!!!!

Thats customer service!!!!!!

His Fractal Audio Axe FX units are backordered about 4-6 months right now. Im thinking about getting one to supplement my G-system.

Fractal also has a uni-vibe & rotary...

TC - Its time to catch up.

The Axe FX stuff looks cool but for that price I really need something to switch channels using relays on my amp. I am thinking about just getting the G Major it seems less buggy with about the same quality of effects plus relay switching, and this is only going to be used live not in the studio so anyway. I like the fact the G System has additional loops but if the intelligent pitch shift is useless it does not really offer any more effect wise from the G Major unless I am missing something?

[supersecretjim]

The pitch shifting isnt useless, but its not the best sounding. Its comparable to the G-force which is just ok as well.

If you want high quality pitch shifting, you need Eventide or something similar like the Axe-FX. Unfortunately the Eventide is really not meant to be used live & suffers from major lag when switching presets.

The G-major is a decent unit if you dont care about pitch shifting, but you will still need a pedal such a the Behringer at $150.00 or Roland at $300.00 to control it. Both of these pedals also have dual relays built in to control amp channels.

The Axe-FX has utterly realistic amp sounds built in and has effects at least on par with TC & Eventide - and with the $400.00 discount coupon it "only" costs $1350.00

Add a pedal controller & youd be set. If your considering the G-system & are looking at spending that kind of money, Consider the Fractal Axe FX.

BTW -- I dont work for fractal or am affiliated in any way with them. Ive just been keeping track of that unit for a while & am becoming increasingly interested & impressed by both the unit itself & even more so by the designer / owner. Cliff & Fractal audio truly seems to be a class act & has a product that has leap-frogged everything else in the industry.

I said it before, and Ill restate it now - Im very happy with my G-system & what it does. There really is no other product on the market that does what it can do. Its just that when you get a product that does so much, you start thinking about the things that its missing, and what features you use & what features you dont use & if that product is really what you need or would something else be better suited for you...

To me, Fractal offers the possibility of getting rid of a room full of amps. No other processor can do that. Modeling, up till now has been a complete joke, mainly because the manufacturers do everything as cheap as possible: cheap processors, cheap parts, lo-fi effects & amp digital algorithms (this is the main thing). The Pod & other modelers dont even have the processing power to handle even one of the Axe-FX amp models. The analog devices chip in the Fractal unit (just the chip) costs well over $200.00 - Ill bet the chips the main guys (line 6,vox,boss)are using for digital cost maybe $20.00 and are much slower than what Fractal uses - Fractals chip processes over 2 billion calculations per second.

Consider if the Fractal was being marketed & sold through retail chains instead of direct - how much would it cost then? $3000.00 or more maybe?

Just some thoughts

[ttosh]

I will give the Axe FX a good look. I checked out their site a while back. I have never been one to really like modelers. I understand based on reviews that they have gotten it right, I just have a place in my heart for tubes, LOL if that makes any sense. Anyway if the effects are top notch and no lag on switching it is worth a look.

The G System just seemed huge to me for all it does. The amp switching and additional loops alone are worth $400 or so, and the effects are no lag on switching was a plus. I had hoped it had good pitch shift for harmonies such as 3rds and 5ths for some of those old 80s two guitar band songs. :)

I guess the only way to know if the G System will truly work for me is to purchase one and give it a try, then go from there. Even if I liked the Ax FX I did not see a $400 discount and that is 4 to 6 months away from delivery based on back log. So I will probably give the G System a try, or just go the route of the G Major and see if it works out for me. Thanks for your replys, they have been helpful and insightful.

[supersecretjim]

Im going to call fractal tomorrow & reserve one. When you make the reservation & they email you to let you know its in, then you get the $400.00 discount.

Scott Peterson (Administrator on this forum) was one of the original posters on this G-system thread. Im sure youve noticed if youve read the entire thread. He bought a G & it ended up, after time, not being the unit for him. He is now loving the Fractal for all the G-system wasnt. Thats not even talking amp sounds. He actually states he prefers the sounds coming out of his Fractal to the real thing.

Are you looking to go new or used on the G-system?

[ttosh]

Usually on any effect unit I go new to get the full warranty. I have been talking to some of the guys on the Splawn forum that have the same amp I have. Most of them seem to really like the G System, a few that do not, but quite a few that do. Also one has the AX FX which I am going to go check out at his house later this week hopefully. So I will get a chance to hear both hopefully with the same amp as I have. I actually PM'd Scott Peterson and he said nothing but good things about the G System, he does have the AX FX now, but still thinks the G System is a great unit as well.

Sounds like they both are excellent. I am leaning towards the G System for the features it has the AX FX does not the Amp Switching and additional loops. I do not need any Amp sim's at all so that does not come into play in this decision.

[supersecretjim]

If youre totally happy with your current sound, then the G is for you. (Just dont expect the world from the pitch block)

Im actually looking at clearing an entire room of amps & cabs. Im just sick of my place looking like a music store.

The appeal of the Fractal to me is:

one pedal board - Like the G-system
A pair of powered monitors in stereo - not a room full of four different cabs
One processor in a rack just like my Gs is mounted
One processor that has allmost unlimited sounds - not 4 different combo amps taking over my room & having to switch & move cable, etc...
Cliff at fractal just plain cares - look through this thread & see all the negative talk about TCs customer service & one year since the last update & two years overdue for the editor.

Doing a lot of thinking the past couple of days & was considering using the G-system & Axe-FX in tandem, but I think Im gonna sell my G-system. Absolutely mint - original box & all. Even a soft case for it thats never been used. Never left the house. Make an offer. I think Im through with a fleet of amps & my TC.

For years Ive thought having numerous amps & as much gear as possible was cool. Now I just really want to simplify things.

Edit: I just ordered my Axe-Fx online & my G-system & other stuff is up for sale. Im taking the plunge.

[ttosh]

If youre totally happy with your current sound, then the G is for you. (Just dont expect the world from the pitch block)

Im actually looking at clearing an entire room of amps & cabs. Im just sick of my place looking like a music store.

The appeal of the Fractal to me is:

one pedal board - Like the G-system
A pair of powered monitors in stereo - not a room full of four different cabs
One processor in a rack just like my Gs is mounted
One processor that has allmost unlimited sounds - not 4 different combo amps taking over my room & having to switch & move cable, etc...
Cliff at fractal just plain cares - look through this thread & see all the negative talk about TCs customer service & one year since the last update & two years overdue for the editor.

Doing a lot of thinking the past couple of days & was considering using the G-system & Axe-FX in tandem, but I think Im gonna sell my G-system. Absolutely mint - original box & all. Even a soft case for it thats never been used. Never left the house. Make an offer.

For years Ive thought having numerous amps & as much gear as possible was cool. Now I just really want to simplify things.

PM Sent regarding offer.

[gbtommasi]

Axe-fx sounds on fractal-audio site and its features are truly amazing. But as any other piece of gear, you have to use it for awhile to know if it is for you.
For now, i am just happy with my sound, and this is the main reason why g-system is so useful to me: it keeps thing together and has top-quality effects (yes, apart the pitch which is not the best on the market, but it is not unusable).

when some of you guys have played awhile with the axe-fx, let us know overall impressions: sounds, ease of use, what you miss of a real tube amp, and so

[Bren]

Re-howdy, all. I finally got a G-System three months ago, and I’m a happy bunny with the G-Syst into two combo amps. In the loops, I have a Bad Monkey, a Deucetone Rat, and an EH Graphic Fuzz, and sometimes a Micro Synth and Moog MURF as well. So far, my only complaint is the slight lag on my Vox volume pedal. I suppose if I had a more complex setup, I might have more issues. I may try the four-cable method down the road.

A Wiki would be handy to clarify info that the manual leaves vague/unsaid, but the user should have a good idea of how to explore effect parameters on their own. The beauty of this thing (to me) is that it doesn’t feature 40 different amp or distortion models, and it doesn’t say “do X, Y, and Z to sound like Mr. Hootie Hoo.” Finding specific tones and special effects is a personal quest, IMHO.

Effects-wise, I love the modulation and delays; now I know why people rave about TC in those departments. (Being able to change the chorus/flanger waveforms would have been nice, though.) I’ve found some good uses for the compressor(s), after some effort. Reverb is nice. Pitch has some wacky tracking sometimes, but I don’t need harmonizing outside of ambient sounds. The resonant filter is useful for shaving off some top end when needed. Also, one of the first things I did was lower the Boost potential to 1dB. I’ve never thought a big leap in volume should be a processor’s job.

Anyway, that’s my quick 2 cents. After devoting enough time to the G, most of what I needed to do to find my sound became clear, and it’s been well worth the investment. This thread made a lot of valuable reading before I took the leap. Of course, now I need to visit the Fractal Audio site out of curiosity…

----
www.jazzshelf.org

[campersand]

Howdy, I'm pretty happy with the G-System but my biggest complaint is the latency I get when switching channels. Not sure exactly how long it is (30ms?) but whatever it is, it's too long. Is anyone else dissatisfied with this and does anyone think this will be improved in the future? It bothers me enough that if it's never going to be fixed, it might be a deal-breaker.

[sixstringmonk]

The 30ms relay switch delay is an improvement over the original 50-100 ms delay the unit shipped with. To me 30ms is BARELY acceptable. It's I price I pay to be able to step on one button rather than 4 (which takes a lot longer than 30 ms). I agree though, it is annoying.

[campersand]

Speaking of latency, does anyone know the accurate latency of preset changes? TC Electronic actually has the channel switching latency listed at 50ms on their website, but I can't find preset latency listed anywhere. Kind of annoying!

[KennethC]

ok fellas, got kind of a dumb Q here, but here goes...

how do I turn the G-system on and off, besides having to plug in the power cord and pulling it out? :jo

[Blues123]

Yeah, odd I know, but there is NO mains switch!!!
It will be in the next software update (sorry couldn't resist that).
I plug it in to a swiched mains extension socket to get round that.

[KennethC]

I actually feel bad for my G-system everytime I see it just die instantly with a pull of the plug, and also see it reboot when I plug it in again. I think there was once when my delay settings for all the 5 presets in a bank were changed w/o my doing so, and I was wondering if it could be due to the unrefined way of powering on/off.

Oh well.

[ryanformato]

Just to keep everyone updated on the X1 and V1 pedals. Looks like we've now switched to January 15h, 2008. http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i-TCE-X1.html

This is really absurd. This is so annoying...I really like this unit; the sounds of the chorus and delays are amazing, but the tech support and lack of release of updates/editor is just so aggravating. I keep waiting to buy the "official" pedals so I know they will work flawlessly but I have been waiting since June only to be disappointed month after month.

By the way, I also wondered why there is no power switch on the G-system. That is really odd. I wonder what the rationalization for it is.

Ryan

[JLantern]

I don't necessarily see use for a mains switch in the GS unit.

I plug my rig to a switchable extension cord, and leave power mains on for all devices. Because I have tube gear, I switch them all to standby (of course) and wait a while before switching power off from the extension cord. Also I turn the volume from the poweramp all the way down to avoid unpleasant surprises when switching mains on.

[jelyfinger]

Just to keep everyone updated on the X1 and V1 pedals. Looks like we've now switched to January 15h, 2008. http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i-TCE-X1.html

This is really absurd. This is so annoying...I really like this unit; the sounds of the chorus and delays are amazing, but the tech support and lack of release of updates/editor is just so aggravating. I keep waiting to buy the "official" pedals so I know they will work flawlessly but I have been waiting since June only to be disappointed month after month.

By the way, I also wondered why there is no power switch on the G-system. That is really odd. I wonder what the rationalization for it is.

Ryan

I cancelled my purchase of the V1 & X1. Comical they keep getting pushed back further 7 further but I saw no sense in lining TC's pockets any further when they can not take care of their existing customers. Annoying is a very nice way of putting it...I refer to it as "totally pissed off"! My Sweetwater rep called yesterday to advise of the further delay and we just laughed...it is truly pathetic!

[ryanformato]

Just to keep you guys updated, the editor has been delayed to late november or early december. This is official via the TC Electronic website (check th FAQ under the G-system; they updated that question).

[KennethC]

I don't necessarily see use for a mains switch in the GS unit.

I plug my rig to a switchable extension cord, and leave power mains on for all devices. Because I have tube gear, I switch them all to standby (of course) and wait a while before switching power off from the extension cord. Also I turn the volume from the poweramp all the way down to avoid unpleasant surprises when switching mains on.

Then why would other multi-efx manufacturers e.g. Boss & Line 6 have an on/off switch?

[Ikarus]

Just to keep you guys updated, the editor has been delayed to late november or early december. This is official via the TC Electronic website (check th FAQ under the G-system; they updated that question).


Phffff, heard that one before. "Helvitis andskotans kjaftaedi", thats icelandic for "what a load of bull****"

[batlas]

Phffff, heard that one before. "Helvitis andskotans kjaftaedi", thats icelandic for "what a load of bull****"

Þú ert nú meiri haugurinn Ívar. :moon

[Blues123]

I cancelled my purchase of the V1 & X1. Comical they keep getting pushed back further 7 further but I saw no sense in lining TC's pockets any further when they can not take care of their existing customers. Annoying is a very nice way of putting it...I refer to it as "totally pissed off"! My Sweetwater rep called yesterday to advise of the further delay and we just laughed...it is truly pathetic!

Yeah, I'm with you on that one. I also was interested in getting a V1, X1 and an Octa Screamer, but TC are getting no more of my hard earned cash until they get their act together. I ended up with an Ernie Ball JR for volume control and a Boss FV500L for Exp. They both work fine (apart from that frustraiting lag). TC really have took their eye of the ball with this one. It's a shame we spend so much time on here moaning about them, but where else can we vent our annoyance as they haven't even got a forum!!

The bottom line is that the G-System is a great piece of gear. We know only too well that with a bit of support and a tweak here and there, it could be so much better. That's what really gets to me.....

[JackButler]

I go back and forth in wonderment of getting one of these units.
I use use a little modulation and basic delay, but the unit still is appealing to me. Being able to have it all right there, paych in a few cool OD's and be done. After reading most of this thread (off and on the past year!), I am still no closer to forking over my cash.

[pdouds]

I have one, I'm not totally ga-ga over it. I may get a timefactor and use my dls ultrachorus. I guess if you run a ton of effects it's cool, but i mainly like a nice chorus and a few delay presets.
on another note, did anybody have the tuner die at a gig? mine did tonight, really pissed me off, i have a peterson strobo-flip that NEVER dies sitting at home on my shelf. i rebooted it, and it started working, weird.

[gbtommasi]

Then why would other multi-efx manufacturers e.g. Boss & Line 6 have an on/off switch?

I don't think that not having an on/off switch is a problem, as long as the device si correctly engineered. Notice that when you plug the mains cable in, the unit does not turn on immediatly, but after more or less a second: which means there is an internal switch activated by the current (don't know how to say it technically).
Since they hadn't enough room to put a sturdy switch, imo this is a better solution than putting a crappy switch in the g-system that will eventually die, as i have seen on many devices.

[gbtommasi]

I go back and forth in wonderment of getting one of these units.
I use use a little modulation and basic delay, but the unit still is appealing to me. Being able to have it all right there, paych in a few cool OD's and be done. After reading most of this thread (off and on the past year!), I am still no closer to forking over my cash.

well i don't use much effects too, but the routing and connection capabilities made buyng one worthy for me.
Nevertheless, I noticed that since i disassembled my old faithful pedalboard to rely on a g-system, sometimes i tend to use effects just because they are there... it takes a while to realize you don't need lots of choruses, reverbs, delays and so on (not always)... :)

[pdouds]

well i don't use much effects too, but the routing and connection capabilities made buyng one worthy for me.
Nevertheless, I noticed that since i disassembled my old faithful pedalboard to rely on a g-system, sometimes i tend to use effects just because they are there... it takes a while to realize you don't need lots of choruses, reverbs, delays and so on (not always)... :)I find when I'm at home, I like to noodle with all the tones, but at gigs, I just don't use a lot of the stuff much.
Might just be me, though.

[trsU2]

I guess my favorite part of the G System is programming song settings and being able to call them up with one toe tap. Since I play in a cover band, having the G System allows me to closely mimic the original guitar player's sounds, in some cases anyway. I do agree that some of the effects are overkill and not terribly useful (tons of reverbs, formants, envelope filters, resonant filters). But TCE leaving out OD/distortions and adding loops for our own pedals was ingenious.

[KennethC]

I guess my favorite part of the G System is programming song settings and being able to call them up with one toe tap. Since I play in a cover band, having the G System allows me to closely mimic the original guitar player's sounds, in some cases anyway. I do agree that some of the effects are overkill and not terribly useful (tons of reverbs, formants, envelope filters, resonant filters). But TCE leaving out OD/distortions and adding loops for our own pedals was ingenious.

+100. No more tap dancing for me. I know some ppl are just so good at that, but I don't wanna subject myself to that - I'd look too busy haha.
Most multi-efx units are overkill anyway...the G-system is just one of the very best. :) Love the analog loops...even tho some ppl complain abt the quality of the AD/DA converter, I'm loving what I hear thru the house in church.

[markmark]

did anybody have the tuner die at a gig? mine did tonight, really pissed me off

Yes, that happens to me sometimes. It sucks. What I do is try different strings - I usually get one string to work and then I continue on tuning the rest. I haven't used it at a gig yet, but I imagine it would piss me off, too.

Might be worth letting TC know. They may decide to fix it in a software update. Sorry guys, I guess that'll just add a couple of months to the release date ;)

mARK

[sheguitarplayer]

Hi.
Im a newbie having just bought a G system last week. I plan to use it with a Marshall JVM410H (awesome amp) and am in the process of getting the levels sorted for the 4 cable method. Its a pain but I feel it will be worth it if I can get it sorted.
Everyone on this discussion seems to have a problem with the pitch on the g system. It would be nice to think TC were bearing this in mind for future software updates? (or is that too much to ask do you think?)

[JLantern]

Wouldn't know any other reason for having an onboard switch in Line6 and other brand of products, than conveniency. It's a bit easier to flick a switch than pull the plug everytime you're finished playing, I think.

I don't think that not having an on/off switch is a problem, as long as the device si correctly engineered. Notice that when you plug the mains cable in, the unit does not turn on immediatly, but after more or less a second: which means there is an internal switch activated by the current (don't know how to say it technically).

Well... by using an external switch the power is disconnected as fast when it would be with an internal switch. When you flick the switch, the current stops flowing and that's it. So it doesn't matter whether you pull the plug or flick the switch. (Any condensators slowly draining empty would probably hurt the insides of the GS more than on/off operation.)

This doesn't, of course, comply to tube gear that needs to cool down in standyby mode - but after cool down you might as well pull the cord out of its socket instead of flicking the mains switch. That's what I've done for years, with no setbacks or damage to gear (used and external switch).

I think the latency during switch-on is probably a similar delay than a pc monitor has when switching on the computer - power doesn't run into all "loops" immediately. E.g. caused by software.

Be that as it may, the unit seems to work fine without a switch, and that's enough for me :)

[gbtommasi]

Hi.
Im a newbie having just bought a G system last week. I plan to use it with a Marshall JVM410H (awesome amp) and am in the process of getting the levels sorted for the 4 cable method. Its a pain but I feel it will be worth it if I can get it sorted.
Everyone on this discussion seems to have a problem with the pitch on the g system. It would be nice to think TC were bearing this in mind for future software updates? (or is that too much to ask do you think?)

what you mean with 'problems with the pitch'? If you mean the pitch shifter, i already posted that it's not an Eventide, (nor it costs the same as well). Yet it is useful imo, and very handy in some situation.

BTW, if i may go off topic for awhile (c'mon, we are at page 100, we can take a little break), tell us something about the JVM... seems a monster, too many buttons and switches though... in facts i am about to buy a Vintage Modern instead! Much more simpler and straight.. i am curious to know how it wil work with the g-system.


Be that as it may, the unit seems to work fine without a switch, and that's enough for me :)

totally agreed! :)

[supersecretjim]

Five new JVMs coming out at NAMM 08 in Jan. Simpler versions with two channels instead of four (although I cant imagine how anyone who doesnt ride the "short bus" could get confused). Still has three modes for each channel - gain channels have been combined & so have the clean & crunch channel. Hundred watt head & combos & Woo-hoo...50 watt head & combos including, I am told, a 50 watt 1x12 combo. I hadnt heard if all or some versions will have the midi control.

[Tore TC]

Hi all,

I just wanted to let you guys know that we finally got around to starting a TC forum. It's mainly a user forum, but I and a bunch of other TC employees will definitely hang around too.

The address is: http://forum.tcelectronic.com

/tore

[gbtommasi]

Hi all,

I just wanted to let you guys know that we finally got around to starting a TC forum. It's mainly a user forum, but I and a bunch of other TC employees will definitely hang around too.

The address is: http://forum.tcelectronic.com

/tore

I just joined, think it's a good thing!

[sheguitarplayer]

what you mean with 'problems with the pitch'? If you mean the pitch shifter, i already posted that it's not an Eventide, (nor it costs the same as well). Yet it is useful imo, and very handy in some situation.


Just the fact a few members have complained about it. I havent really had much chance to get into it yet as I am a newbie, but I would probably just use the detune and perhaps whammy side of it anyway.
The JVM is an incredible amp. I have used and gigged it regularly for about 4 months now and love it. It is dead easy to set up with the gsystem as it recognises incoming midi patch change numbers when programming. Simply set up the amp as you like it, press the footswitch button on the amp front panel twice, step on the the g major footswitch and bingo! all done.
Its a great live tool. Looks complicated at first glance, but really is just 4 sets of typical Marshall gain/ tone networks. This makes it dead easy to adjust gain/ tone settings on the fly, invaluable at gigs IMHO.
Four channels, with 3 modes (green, amber, red) on each of them.
Clean channel goes from pristine modern clean to vintage (think Little Wing) to raw plexi crunch just by changing the mode button.
Crunch channel goes from a nice smooth light crunch to JCM800 to modded JCM800. OD1 green starts off with a gainier version of crunch red, then to full on rock lead, then OD1 red just goes mental in the gain stakes. All the rock sounds you could wish for from a Marshall!
OD2 is more or less a more 'modern' version of all the modes in OD1.
All the modes/ reverb and loop settings can be programmed to respond to the patch changes, so with the G system you have acces to switch between all the modes with ease.
Seems they were made for each other.
The amber and red modes of OD1 and OD2 are very high gain and can suffer from hiss (no more than any other amps with this amount of gain dialled in). The noise gate on the gsystem deals with this no problem.
OD pedals work really well with all modes on the clean and crunch channels. Havent tried them on OD1 and OD2 as there is so much gain available from the amp it seems pointless.
Sounds great at bedroom levels, but really starts to show its colours with the masters on 3 or more.
Am just starting to find my way around the gsystem and still need to get the levels on it optimised, but it sounds great with the JVM already.
If you like the Marshall sound, you gotta try this amp.

[sheguitarplayer]

in facts i am about to buy a Vintage Modern instead! Much more simpler and straight.. i am curious to know how it wil work with the g-system

I have a vintage modern too, with the matching cab (It makes a big difference) This is a great amp too. For nailing one particular tone you cant beat it IMHO. I use the JVM live for its versatility and great tone. I actually find it easier to dial in on the fly as the VM has so much control with those 2 preamp dials! Im just happy the current Marshall range is so good and am sure you will love the VM. An awful lot of pros are using it already.

[supersecretjim]

Marshall has now dropped the JCM line - no more DSL or TSLs. Gone for good.

[aksman]

Hey, looky who put up a forum!

http://www.tcelectronic.com/product_news.asp?AjrDcmntId=8750

[aksman]

wow... did I kill this thread with that last post?

(i know tore posted about the forum a couple posts above me)

[keychange]

nah I think it was Tore 4 or 5 posts before :)

[mfergel]

Man, I just got doen reading 101 pages. My retina's are burnt.

I had actually just ordered a g-system a couple of weeks ago. Almost wishing I had read this thread prior. I might have reconsidered. We'll have to see. It's been the big reason I haven't sold the Boss GT-8 yet. I needed something that offered relay switching and being able to place effects before and after the loop. I think the distortions/modeling on the GT-8 are cr@p and the effects are ok. I really liked the addition of the analong loops on the G-system. I'm concerned though after reading all of this at the lack of support from TC on some of this stuff. Granted, I can't say they are the only ones doing this. Head over to the Line 6 forum to listen to all the complaints on the new Pod III (hardware issues, no editor either, etc.).

Who knows, if the g-system doesn't work out, I'll just have to stick to the GT-8 or go with a Behringer FCB1010 and my old Digitech TSR-24s.

[jesper]

Mfergel. The G-system is a very fine machine. I run mine in the 4 cable method and I have had no props with external exp-pedals or support from TC. Yes the late release of the editor and the new version of the software is a drag. But if TC hadnt told me about it - I wouldnt really miss it.

[Lucky Angus]

I'm deciding to get the G-System and I have some questions for you guys that are using the device ...


1 - how about the A/D - D/A conversion ?

I took a look the the G-System manual ... my setup will be like the "Pedals and Head" (page 25)

in this case you'll have 4 conversions (1st: guitar --> (IN) G-System ... 2nd: (SEND) G-System --> (IN) head ... 3rd: (SEND) head --> (RETURN) G-System ... 4th: (OUT) G-System --> (RETURN) head)

how about my sound ??? :(

I'll loose dynamic, frequencies ???


2 - can you choose (like G-Major) serial or parallel loop to use with your amplifier ?

3 - what about the noise loop ? T.C. solved the problems with the noise ???


Thanks guys ! :AOK

[gbtommasi]

I'm deciding to get the G-System and I have some questions for you guys that are using the device ...


1 - how about the A/D - D/A conversion ?

I took a look the the G-System manual ... my setup will be like the "Pedals and Head" (page 25)

in this case you'll have 4 conversions (1st: guitar --> (IN) G-System ... 2nd: (SEND) G-System --> (IN) head ... 3rd: (SEND) head --> (RETURN) G-System ... 4th: (OUT) G-System --> (RETURN) head)

how about my sound ??? :(

I'll loose dynamic, frequencies ???


2 - can you choose (like G-Major) serial or parallel loop to use with your amplifier ?

3 - what about the noise loop ? T.C. solved the problems with the noise ???


Thanks guys ! :AOK

hey i am tempted to reply in italian :BEER

1- i recently discovered that plugging my guitar in the loop 1 return makes a huge difference than plugging it straight in the input socket. But i don't exactly know if this is due to the double A/D-D/A conversion (pre loops and post loops) or if it is due to a the instrument interface on the g-system (in which case probably using a booster or a tonebone dragster in front of the g-system would solve it). I will let you know, anyway for my experience the converters on the g-system are very high quality ones.
2- your amp must have a series loop to use g-system features at full extent.
3- i have never had noise problems.

Hope it helps, pm me for any doubt

[Laird_Williams]

I'm deciding to get the G-System and I have some questions for you guys that are using the device ...
... :AOK

I will add a couple of things to gbtommasi's reply, and amplify one.

But to start : I LOVE THIS THING. It took me a while to get it where I wanted it - but it is there now and I can't imagine working without it.

You can get outstanding sound from the G and retain your dynamics - BUT - you have to do some work to set it up. Expect to take 3-4 hours to adjust levels and get things where you want them. Expect to be "tuning" for another week or two. Once you get it set though, you are done and don't need to mess with it again.

Amplification:
A serial loop is important for getting good sound from the G.
SOME parallel loops with a mix control that can truly go "all wet" will work fine too...but if there is any dry mixed in your amp's FX loop things go downhill fast. Phasing effects from the dry signal can really mess things up.

1) If you have your own compressors and filters, or do not use them, and you have a loop available on the G, then by all means do what gbtommasi is doing. It is a brilliant way to do things.

Exposition:
The G has two Digital FX sections - one for "pre-gain FX" and one for "post-gain FX". In order to preserve fidelity through the pre-fx, there is a preamp that brings the G up to line-level (about 10x voltage that you get out of your guitar). Unfortunately, there is no way to bring the signal back down to guitar level after the pre-FX, so from that point on, the signal is line-level. So if you are used to the sound of your amp and stomps playing off a 70-100mV signal from the guitar, you may or may not not be happy when you feed them ~1V out of the G.

I'm a weirdo. You may be too - I don't know. I am just fine with the preamping. I don't CARE if my guitar sounds "the same" through the G as without it. I don't use the system without the G - so who cares if I get the same sound anyway? I just care if my guitar sounds good and plays well with the G and my amp. My rig sounds great and everything plays well - so I am happy. You may be too - but if you really want the front half of the G to be "neutral" when all the loops are bypassed, gbtomassi's solution is quite effective.

2) If you, like me, don't use the digital pre-fx at all - make sure they are turned off on all your patches. Especially the compressor.

Exposition: A compressor's job is to limit or eliminate dynamics. Anyone who turns ON a compressor and then complains that their playing dynamics was reduced or eliminated does not understand the function of a compressor and has mutually incompatible requirements.

3) If you have a way to use MIDI or switching to engage a boost on your amp, or you have a high-quality boost pedal to use in a loop - DO IT and bag the on-board boost on the G.

Exposition: The G does not really "boost". It attenuates the signal by a fixed (parameterized) value and then "restores" it when "boost" is engaged. (Sort of the converse of raising the price on your product so you can then afford to "discount" it at a sale ;-) This really screws a lot of people when they first hook the system up and don't understand the boost function. The attenuation effectively lowers the s/n ratio and also makes it harder to set levels properly.

4) The on-board volume pedal algorithm has an unacceptable response latency. Consider it effectively unusable for volume swells and such. (if you just use it to mute, then no problem). They are working on a fix - but it has been a long time coming. I would not let this be a make-or-break part of the decision unless you are a heavy volume pedal user - and even then you can just stick a "Real" volume pedal in a loop or before the G if you need to. But be aware of the issue and factor it into your thinking.

'nuff said
(probably too much - but oh well...)

-Laird

[gbtommasi]

man i could not have explained the whole thing better than you have done!
Anyway i still hope to find a solution with some kind of tool to be placed between guitar and g (i was thinking of the tonebone dragster). Not really to be able to use compressor or filters (i don't really need them and i use my true bypass crybaby for wha stuff), but because i could eventually free up a loop and save it for future purposes!

BTW, i also love this damn thing (for truth sake!)
;)

[mfergel]

Laird, based on your response and some of the other things I had read in these postings, here's what I plan on doing (mine arrives tomorrow).

1. Disable on board boost and bringing it back up to 0db and then placing a boost pedal (such as an eq) in the loop return coming from my amp (will be using 4 cable method). I'd be boosting the signal coming from my preamp and back into the G-system.
2. Until they fix the volume pedal issue, I was thinking of running an old VOX volume pedal prior to the G-system. I do have two Boss expression pedals coming with it but will hold off on using those until they issue 3.0.

[Laird_Williams]

Laird, based on your response and some of the other things I had read in these postings, here's what I plan on doing (mine arrives tomorrow).

1. Disable on board boost and bringing it back up to 0db and then placing a boost pedal (such as an eq) in the loop return coming from my amp (will be using 4 cable method). I'd be boosting the signal coming from my preamp and back into the G-system.
2. Until they fix the volume pedal issue, I was thinking of running an old VOX volume pedal prior to the G-system. I do have two Boss expression pedals coming with it but will hold off on using those until they issue 3.0.

These will both work - but you should experiment and try some other things too and see what you like best. One of the fun (and sometimes frustrating) things about the G is that it is so flexible there are a lot of right answers and it takes some experimentation to arrive at the right one for you.

If you have a loop available and you are not rack-mounting the "brain", you can stick your interim volume pedal in one of the loops. That way you can bypass it when you don't want to use it. If you use it a lot and you want it available all the time, then putting it where you plan to is a good idea. You could also try sticking it between the output of the G and the return on your amp.

As for your boost solution - watch the headroom on the return so you don't overdrive it when you engage the boost. You might also experiment with putting the boost in a loop before the preamp if you have one available. If you want boost that won't color much of anything - put it after your G-System output and before the amp return.

If you get a lot of hum using the 4-cable method, you may be one of the users who encounters a ground loop. If you get a ground loop, go find a 2-channel isolator (EbTech makes a great one - sold under the Morley brand) and use it to protect both the send and return of the amp's FX loop and that will probably kill any loop you may create. The G does not have (and in my opinion - should not have) a ground lift switch, so ground loops do happen to some folks. It depends on the amp, whether the G's brain is in a rack or not, and other factors. It certainly happens more often with the 4-cable setup. Just be aware that there is an easy fix.