Collectability........

[OldSchool]

Out of all the boutique guitars made which has the ability to become a real collectors Item?(for us bottom feeder cork sniffers....... :D

Looks like availibility rules the roost.


The Lentz Strats and Teles command a pretty price............but I don't see them getting much more expensive. They already co$t almost 50-60% more then the original asking price.

Oringinal 80's PRS guitars Cost 3 times what they were originally introduced for. I'm surprised single cuts aren't in high demand after what Gibson did. The higher end stuff is already too expensive to even think about.


My Money is on the Oringinal Bakers. The B1's especially .......I've seen them go for around $2600-3000. I think its money well spent and surely to appriciate in due time. I think Ed Roman has helped them as well by offering cheap copies to the masses.



The others like Thorns and Driskills will always command a good price........but as long as they keep being pumped out.........they are available and not really collectable.................or are they?

I think the real dogs are the Historic Gibsons. The market is absolutely flooded with them.

Thoughts .......opinions?

[Yossi]

My bet is that the Driskill will be a great guitar that will go up in value. His design is unique, perfect balance, stainless steel frets, brass bridge/tremelo, tool steel rod reinforced with some hightech material. That plus only one man making them. Eventually Joe's going to get bigger and mass producing his guitars. So what's bound to happen to the guitars that were hand built? They have to go up and up.
Besides, I have one on order.

Shalom,

Yossi

[Joe]

Someday the world will figure out that USA Hamers are the best made guitars out there and the pricing on the used market will finally reflect that, when that happens I'll be rich and can retire. :p

[Fantom1]

I'm not sure, but I am pretty sure when I'm 50-60 there is going to be a plethora of great guitars for dirt cheap when people's children sell them off because they don't say Fender of Gibson.

[Lavely]

Fantom1 - I pretty much agree with this statement!

Also, regarding Bakers - I have played only one and liked it, not loved it. My experience aside, I'm not sure they will become HUGELY collectible simply because it usually takes a big name to push stuff to that realm. Having said that, if someone makes it big playing a Baker, all bets are off!!

In fact, I'll go one step further. The next guitar hero that hits huge (when was the last one?) playing a guitar NOT from the big three (Gibby, Fender, PRS) is going to trigger a collectibility craze for some smaller luthier's early work. Could be any one of them really - as long as the quality is good, early serial numbers could really shoot up in price.

Lavely

[RAD]

Since you mentioned Lentz I feel I should add some of my thoughts to this thread. I own one of the Scott Lentz 3 pup models. It is a light ash body, rosewood fretboard strat style guitar.

I know people have said this before but this really is one of the best strat style guitars on the market. I took it to Eddies guitars in St Louis recently to try out some of the Bruno amps. When one of the shop workers picked up the guitar he said: wow, this must be a high dollar guitar. And he had never heard of Scott Lentz before. Other customers asked to try it, and everybody was really impressed with my guitar.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that Lentz guitars are worth every penny. Somebody offered a hardtail model here recently and I think the price was around $3600. That's what you would be paying for a used master build Fender. But the Lentz offers so much more. The playability is just amazing. Mine is a beefy neck, but smooth as silk and plays effortlessly. The whole body resonates like no other strat guitar, and the pickups are superb. Given all the experience and workmanship that goes into creating a Lentz I believe $3600 is still a very good deal.

Another thing is that there aren't many old Lentz guitar around. And they don't come up for sale very often. Also, what are the alternatives? I have a Detemple 52 model on order, but the two year waiting list is pushing it. All the other guitars I played after purchasing the Lentz where simply not as good as the Lentz (in my opinion that is).

I would be surprised if the prices for the old Lentz guitars did not go up. In some ways that would be a good thing because I am still looking for an old 2 pup model.

RAD

[mitch]

I have a bunch of Bakers, and I have noticed that they have gone up in the last few years. I bought most of them when Gene was still making them, I have 2 that are basically his private Stock, one with a ttree of life, and one inferno that has the flame on the body as well as the neck... I really love the way Bakers Play, so the fact that they are worth more than I paid is a bonus!!! I also have a bunc of early 86 PRS, I Love the way they play as well. The early sweet switch model is still the best sounding to my ears.... I have noticed that they have been pretty steady in price. I have a few older Gibsons, THEY have been really going up. It amazes me. The smaller builders, its anyones guess.

[edgarallanpoe]

I agree with the original Bakers. Especially given Gene's absence over the past couple of years.

I would also like to throw another builder into the mix.

Nik Huber...here is why.

There are loads of builders who take the Gibson, Gretsch, or Fender thing and make it their own. But PRS is a different story. Nik is the only guy I know who builds guitars with the *original* PRS guitars in mind. They aren't copies...but the influence is definitely there. I have owned a few of the older PRS guitars and they were all stellar...but the Hubers are even better. The *vintage* (LOL) PRS guitars had one weakness...the pickups...Huber doesn't have that problem. He is using the Haeussell pickups and they are outstanding. Nik's attention to detail is amazing, and he remains friends with Paul Reed Smith.

The Europeans are building some *amazing* stuff right now.....some of which I believe will be the collectable guitars of the future. Which ones?....Its anyones guess.

[mitch]

The Pick ups in my early PRSi are NUTS. The T and B pups are crazy, you put that with the sweet switch... ... I have NOT bought early PRS because the pups had been changed. Granted, I have found a few of the older PRS that have had tonal " issues" but the 6 or 7 I have are all sweet in their own way.

[edgarallanpoe]

The Pick ups in my early PRSi are NUTS. The T and B pups are crazy, you put that with the sweet switch... ... I have NOT bought early PRS because the pups had been changed. Granted, I have found a few of the older PRS that have had tonal " issues" but the 6 or 7 I have are all sweet in their own way.

That may be true bro...and it brings up a good point. Pickups are always going to be a personal issue. Attention to detail and QC are not...

Good point mitch...

[whitehall]

Orville By Gibson...they have everything going for them, build quality that rivals today's custom shop pieces, and most of all......limited production.... roughly 1988-1996. The regular Orvilles are not bad either. But the price of the OBG's is on a steady rise. And they really are wonderful guitars.

[hear and play]

I don't think collectibility is going to occur again.

I think that part of the reason for the collectibility of 50s - 60s Fenders and Gibsons is the poor build quality of mid-70s - early 80s Fenders and Gibsons. "Older is better" was true. I don't see it being repeated in that a variety of high quality new guitars are currently and will continue to be marketed.

The other reason for collectibility was that the guitar gods used no-longer-produced guitars. That doesn't happen with currently produced guitars, because the new ones are generally as good or better than the old ones. Do the big name PRS users prefer pre-94 PRSs? I don't think so. Look at Carlos -- he uses new ones, no?

[mitch]

I know it sounds awful, but its not ALL about the playing, I know a few guys that won't pull out that old piece of wood, unless they are recording, so Live, they use a newer version, or a different guitar, but in the studio its a different story. Also, the pre-factory PRS seem to have a soul of there own, almost every one has something a little different about it. Be it in the feel or tone, they are each special. We are in the day of the cookie cutter production guitar, and for some reasons its good, but for others it is bad.

[jjguitarranch]

MAX

[DrPCR]

gambling on the collectibilty of guitars is suicide. You never know what will be collectible. one fad today is worthless the next.

I own bakers, driskills, PRS, etc..

All great guitars, are they going to be the next 59 LP? who knows, even when the 59 LP came out, no one wanted them, and for decades, you could buy them for cheap.

I figure the sleepers are the original 80s heavy metal guitars, the charvels, the jacksons, the kramers. SOme are already expensive, some are still cheap. When the 30 yr old gen-X guys (which I'm part of) get to 50-60s, then you'll see the prices push up, just like the baby boomers pushed up the LPs.

thats my 2 cents.

[jjguitarranch]

Excellent point. Those San Dimas Charvels are very expensive now......

[OldSchool]

Originally posted by hear and play
I don't think collectibility is going to occur again.

I think that part of the reason for the collectibility of 50s - 60s Fenders and Gibsons is the poor build quality of mid-70s - early 80s Fenders and Gibsons. "Older is better" was true. I don't see it being repeated in that a variety of high quality new guitars are currently and will continue to be marketed.

The other reason for collectibility was that the guitar gods used no-longer-produced guitars. That doesn't happen with currently produced guitars, because the new ones are generally as good or better than the old ones. Do the big name PRS users prefer pre-94 PRSs? I don't think so. Look at Carlos -- he uses new ones, no?


I just saw a 75 Strat go for $4000 on Ebay!! I sold those all day long for $500 just 10-12 yrs ago! How much of a factor do you think Ebay has had on the guitar Market? Forums like this as well? If not for places like this I doubt I'd have even heard of thorn or Driskill.........Baker maybe becuase of Robben Ford.......But I think whats popular here is usually what commands a big price.

[Distortion]

Originally posted by RAD


I guess the point I am trying to make is that Lentz guitars are worth every penny. Somebody offered a hardtail model here recently and I think the price was around $3600. That's what you would be paying for a used master build Fender. But the Lentz offers so much more. The playability is just amazing. Mine is a beefy neck, but smooth as silk and plays effortlessly. The whole body resonates like no other strat guitar, and the pickups are superb. Given all the experience and workmanship that goes into creating a Lentz I believe $3600 is still a very good deal.



Over the past couple of years I have owned an original 65 Strat, two Lentz S types, a Callaham S type, and a John English Masterbuilt 65 NOS Strat.
Every one of these instruments was great, but much to my surprise the very best of them all was my English Masterbuilt Strat.

My take on collecting guitars is to buy instruments that reach out and grab me. If they increase in value, great. If they don't I still have an amazing guitar. :)

[OldSchool]

Originally posted by Distortion

My take on collecting guitars is to buy instruments that reach out and grab me. If they increase in value, great. If they don't I still have an amazing guitar. :)

Thats probably the best thing you can do. Its exactly why I bought my very first boutique guitar........a B1 Baker. One look at it and I had to have it. :dude

Next for me is an Anderson Tele with a .50 oversized neck.......:D :cool: :dude

[edgarallanpoe]

Thats probably the best thing you can do. Its exactly why I bought my very first boutique guitar........a B1 Baker. One look at it and I had to have it.

What kind of moron would sell you a Baker B1...have they lost their minds? The guy must be a total idiot. :D

[OldSchool]

Originally posted by edgarallanpoe
What kind of moron would sell you a Baker B1...have they lost their minds? The guy must be a total idiot. :D

If it sounds and plays as good as it looks.........I'll tell ya what.......what he is getting in its place must be pretty special! :dude

God I can't wait until next week............:D

[John Bell]

Originally posted by OldSchool
I just saw a 75 Strat go for $4000 on Ebay!!

Please post the link because I don't believe that for a second.No one can be that stupid.

[dkaplowitz]

Originally posted by OldSchool
Next for me is an Anderson Tele with a .50 oversized neck.......:D :cool: :dude
That's ironic, I just played one with just that spec at a local music shop (in butterscotch too!). Great neck shape for them! (I think it could even be a bit beefier) I plan on getting a hollow T with that neck too. Can't decide on the wood combo though. Probably alder/ash or maybe just ash/ash. If I'm lucky one'll show up here or on ebay and I'll be able to snap it up for cheap.

As to collectibility, I'm not into vintage instruments, but are there even any obscure luthiers from the 40s and 50s whose guitars go for 10s of thousands of dollars over their original value now?

I don't think any boutique guitars will have much collectibility/exceptional value in the future -- unless said boutique shop becomes extremely huge (like Fender or Gibson) and keeps their name. And I get the feeling getting huge is not what a lot of these luthiers are about.

I tend to agree with the guy who said to just buy a great guitar that works for you and keep it for life. That's the best plan. I think any of the top boutique guitar makers make guitars that will outlast their owners...that to me is more important than whether it will have an increase in value in 30 years.

It's probably worth your time and money to invest in the stock market, or to start a business and let that be your big cash cow in 30 years.

[OldSchool]

Originally posted by John Bell
Please post the link because I don't believe that for a second.No one can be that stupid.


It was posted at the Diner.......I posted a thread over there and am trying to get a link to it. I couldn't believe it myself bro..........

[John Bell]

Originally posted by OldSchool
It was posted at the Diner.......I posted a thread over there and am trying to get a link to it. I couldn't believe it myself bro..........

When I hear this kind of stuff it just makes me dizzy.Either people are total fools or I'm that naive about guitar prices.:(

[phretbored]

Buy what you like, play them, and enjoy them.

That being said there are so many great and cool boutique guitars around that in the future the collectible market will just be broader.
Some people want to own cool guitars just because they want to own cool guitars.
They are not necessarily loyal to one brand and it is great to have a range of quality choices available.
Years from now who knows for sure which guitars will be the most sought after?
I certainly don't expect vintage Gibson and Fender to become less desirable.
Also both Gibson and Fender have been putting out top notch Custom Shop guitars for several years now...many of these are better guitars than the old '50's and '60's pieces!
Eventually these will become 30 and 40 year old insturments and I guess they will improve with age and have a I think the collectible markets will accept them.

PRS is one that I think will always have a player following collectible following.

Suhr and McNaught are also really great.

The guitar market is much more interesting now than it has ever been in my experience and the energy and creativity is awesome.

One thing that seems to happen in any business or hobby is that some people are really good at it and others are not.
Guitar collecting is the same as anything else.
Some guitar collectors can and do make money by recognizing a great deal or anticipating a price move.
If you have that going for you then that's great.
Markets move both ways though!

[OldSchool]

Originally posted by John Bell
When I hear this kind of stuff it just makes me dizzy.Either people are total fools or I'm that naive about guitar prices.:(


I believe it was Alex Rado that posted the auction for a friend. We saw the auction and watched it rise to $4000 for a completely ordinary good condition 100% stock 1975 strat.

It blew my mind becuase I had so many of these era guitars not so long ago. Couldn't give them away. I always miss the boat on this stuff.......its best I just buy what I want to play........not sell. Again..........another reasin I want a Baker B1! :cool:

[Ian Anderson]

"As to collectibility, I'm not into vintage instruments, but are there even any obscure luthiers from the 40s and 50s whose guitars go for 10s of thousands of dollars over their original value now? "

Elmer Stromberg, John D'Angelico, Semie Mosley, Jimmy D'Aquisto, Paul Bigsby to name a few. :)

[OldSchool]

Originally posted by Ian Anderson
"As to collectibility, I'm not into vintage instruments, but are there even any obscure luthiers from the 40s and 50s whose guitars go for 10s of thousands of dollars over their original value now? "

Elmer Stromberg, John D'Angelico, Semie Mosley, Jimmy D'Aquisto, Paul Bigsby to name a few. :)


Excellent point!! Boutique has been around alot longer than I realized! :cool:

[OldSchool]

Originally posted by John Bell
When I hear this kind of stuff it just makes me dizzy.Either people are total fools or I'm that naive about guitar prices.:(


Best I could do for proof at the moment.........

http://guitardiner.com/cgi-bin/gforum/gforum.cgi?post=258950;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC ;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unre ad

:cool:

[Syn]

I agree with 'Joe' The Hamers are the best value -quality out there! I have owned it ALL from Hamer; Grosh;Anderson;Suhr; Parker; Ernie Ball;Sadowsky; Baker; PRS;Peavey Wolfgang; Fender; Gibson; McInturff; Tyler; Klein and then some and there is NO better value than a Hamer with it's quality and consistancy! They are under the radar now!

[OldSchool]

Originally posted by Syn
I agree with 'Joe' The Hamers are the best value -quality out there! I have owned it ALL from Hamer; Grosh;Anderson;Suhr; Parker; Ernie Ball;Sadowsky; Baker; PRS;Peavey Wolfgang; Fender; Gibson; McInturff; Tyler; Klein and then some and there is NO better value than a Hamer with it's quality and consistancy! They are under the radar now!

The new Korina Vectors are really cool. :dude